Legacy on MTGO

[Happy Gilmore]

For those interested, there has been a lot of talk about bringing Legacy to Mtgo, It would be great for getting people into the format, unfortuately this was just anounced today.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1093650

[Ebinsugewa]

Were they really going to try and support Legacy without Tempest-Saga? I think we can all agree that it would have been retarded anyway, so who cares? That and Magic Online is a terrible platform for gaming of any sort.

[quicksilver]

They probably didn't do it cause they thought everyone was bored of Legacy since it is nothing but Golgari Grave Trolls and Tarmogyfs.

[cdr]

A big problem in MTGO is card availability - the amount of cards from early blocks like Invasion online is absolutely tiny compared to the physical print runs, because what's out there was only what was purchased.

Even with the low demand right now, online Invasion cards go for many times what paper ones do. Wizards tries to help somewhat I think with special events that pay out older sets for prizes, but I don't think it helps much.

ME2 has the allied duals, but it's otherwise not very popular and the "print run" is almost certainly going to be way short of Revised's.

Card availability more than anything is what would prevent a format like online legacy from taking off, I think.

[Fred Bear]

A big problem in MTGO is card availability - the amount of cards from early blocks like Invasion online is absolutely tiny compared to the physical print runs, because what's out there was only what was purchased.

Even with the low demand right now, online Invasion cards go for many times what paper ones do. Wizards tries to help somewhat I think with special events that pay out older sets for prizes, but I don't think it helps much.

ME2 has the allied duals, but it's otherwise not very popular and the "print run" is almost certainly going to be way short of Revised's.

Card availability more than anything is what would prevent a format like online legacy from taking off, I think.

The caveat to this is that there is nobody playing V3.0 which means that for many cards the supply still far outweighs the demand (dual lands sell for between 10-15 tickets which is the equivalent of $9-$13 for allied duals). This becomes even more relevant with the coming extended rotation. Most of Invasion and Odyssey block is unplayable in Legacy/Classic and prices will probably fall dramatically (Deed, Chant, and Meddling Mage is about all that will hold value).

They have decided to delay the introduction of Legacy, which leaves Classic which is essentially a very weak version of Vintage. You can basically play Threshold and much of Standstill is available. Dredge (Legacy anyways) is almost entirely online as is most of Belcher. It is really a completely different format since you have no real fast mana (crypt is there now), so even with 4x Necro and 4x Mind's Desire playable - it's not terribly broken.

I think the biggest drawback is that you own 'virtual' cards, not real ones. Your deck won't cost as much as it does in real life, but you also can't take it anywhere.

It a very different play experience.

-FB...

[cdr]

Demand being low is part of my point - prices are already high with demand as low as it is. Demand can't grow much without prices starting to seriously strangle it.

[Fred Bear]

By that logic, I hope we never have a Legacy PT or else prices will kill the format.

Cards, virtual or not, cost money. Online Pernicious Deed costs $35 while in paper Magic it's only $12 (retail on both). On the other hand, Pithing Needle costs $4 and Tarmogoyf is only $11 online while paper versions run $12 and $30, respectively. It's simply a different paradigm.

Honestly, for me, I have no delusion that MTGO is a 'collectible' card game. Yes, it can be, but you are better off viewing it like any other monthly-fee style online game. You just spend your monthly fee on individual cards you want for the decks you play. Your monthly fee scales with how competitive you need to be for the experience to be enjoyable.

It's obviously more relevant for Standard, Extended, and Limited play, but if they really do eventually intend to support online Vintage (there are plans for more 'Masters Edition' sets and with access to the mythic rare - I fully expect Moxen and Power online at some point) and Legacy, now is the time to get in and 'invest'.

-FB...

[DeathwingZERO]

The logic isn't flawed, it's actually very accurate. We can handle PT seasons with Legacy with little to no problems, because the supply of duals and other staples worldwide is more than enough for a few thousand dedicated players. Hell, we still have booster boxes from older sets that would eventually get cracked for singles if the demand reached that point (which I actually really doubt).

On the flipside, that's nowhere near the support the online Invasion cards can pull off. To be honest, I'm not even sure if there's a thousand decksets of any given Invasion block chase card online anymore. With the number of vendors and storefronts that collected sets to get physical decksets, it's more akin to collecting Power in some cases than it is duals.

The other problem with the "newer" releases on MTGO to continue with Legacy is that very few people outside of the players that know those sets are going to want them, because they can't be turned into physical versions. Depending on how well said sets are received, we'll find out how much it'll cost to put together decks like we can physically.

The same driving factors are there for both physical and online, the problem is the online stuff has no "real" value now to the average player, only to the ones willing to invest in the older formats. This may end up making Legacy into the "Gentleman's" format that Vintage used to be before proxy tournaments, where only the guys with Power would be able to support it.

[Happy Gilmore]

As you said, unless they start letting people buy packs from invasion block again it will most certainly make it impossible. As it is, I know only a couple of people who have a playset of cards like Chant, Deed, MM, and Fact or Fiction.

[Fred Bear]

My point was simply this - with any situation, if you increase the demand, the price will go up. Have a Legacy PT event, dual lands, FOW, and many other staples will likely spike in price. The same will happen if a format like Legacy were to take off in MTGO, playable cards will go up in cost (I don't use 'value' in terms of MTGO because unless you are redeeming the cards, there is no 'real' value), even ones in great supply. I think MTGO is a different beast because of perception - the names of the chase cards aren't what you'd expect (Pernicious Deed = $30+ while Imperial Seal = $4).

I don't know actual supply numbers on IPA chase rares, but I'd be willing to bet there are a lot more in circulation than some people make it sound. I'm not trying to Champion MTGO or defend Wizards, but they are also increasing the supply of those cards incrementally by having 'retro' tournaments, etc. I also think they realize that if they are to build an eternal format online, they will be forced to reprint cards that are already online, but in short supply (Deed, Chant, FOW). Maybe they don't, though.

I personally think MTGO is a good thing (save the V3 issues). My daily routine permits me to logon at 5am or 10pm and find a game or two and logoff. If I get the itch, I can buy a few packs and draft - anytime of day or night, weekday or weekend. I don't always have time to play or even find a FNM (only one shop within reasonable, i.e. <30 minute, driving distance has two hours of weekly gaming), but I can get in a game (or tournament for actual prizes) in a pile of different formats online for a quick fix.

If they do eventually get to the point where they have Legacy online, I'll more than likely play it.

-FB...

[Happy Gilmore]

My point was simply this - with any situation, if you increase the demand, the price will go up. Have a Legacy PT event, dual lands, FOW, and many other staples will likely spike in price. The same will happen if a format like Legacy were to take off in MTGO, playable cards will go up in cost (I don't use 'value' in terms of MTGO because unless you are redeeming the cards, there is no 'real' value), even ones in great supply. I think MTGO is a different beast because of perception - the names of the chase cards aren't what you'd expect (Pernicious Deed = $30+ while Imperial Seal = $4).

I don't know actual supply numbers on IPA chase rares, but I'd be willing to bet there are a lot more in circulation than some people make it sound. I'm not trying to Champion MTGO or defend Wizards, but they are also increasing the supply of those cards incrementally by having 'retro' tournaments, etc. I also think they realize that if they are to build an eternal format online, they will be forced to reprint cards that are already online, but in short supply (Deed, Chant, FOW). Maybe they don't, though.

I personally think MTGO is a good thing (save the V3 issues). My daily routine permits me to logon at 5am or 10pm and find a game or two and logoff. If I get the itch, I can buy a few packs and draft - anytime of day or night, weekday or weekend. I don't always have time to play or even find a FNM (only one shop within reasonable, i.e. <30 minute, driving distance has two hours of weekly gaming), but I can get in a game (or tournament for actual prizes) in a pile of different formats online for a quick fix.

If they do eventually get to the point where they have Legacy online, I'll more than likely play it. Mono red is the only deck I lost to.

-FB...

Right now I'm just having a blast playing singleton. My black sui deck is crushing all. Except for one match against mono red >_< . Vamp + imperial Seal is awesome.

[jericohs@cottage]

I just managed to pull and imperial recruiter and a taiga last night, YAY!!! Same Draft and all.