New Format MTG Classic Sat in Syracuse [Archive]

konsultant

10-05-2008, 04:54 PM

Introducing MTG Classic:

We wanted to make the entire experience of back when the game started so we are reviving some olden rules along with the card pool. The rules for Classic magic are as follows.

1) Sets that can be played are limited to:

Alpha
Beta
Unlimited
Revised
Arabian Nights
Legends
The Dark
Antiquities

2) Banned/Restricted cards

Mox's, Lotus, Walk, Twister, Wheel, Braingeyser, Mana Drain and Ancestral Recall will all be allowed as one of restricted cards

Channel-Banned
Power Artifact-Banned
Ante Cards-Banned

3) That is everything that is banned or restricted, feel free to play things like 4x Demonic Tutor or Chaos Orb.

4) Deck minimum is 75 cards and players do not get a side board.

5) Who go's first is determined by the highest casting cost card on the bottom of each players deck after an opponents cut.

6) The player who go's first draws a card for turn.

7) Foil cards are banned

8) The original Mulligan rules are in effect, you get one mulligan if your entire hand is all Land cards or no Land cards. You reveal your hand to your opponent and shuffle/draw a new hand of 7 cards. You are not allowed to "paris" mulligan.

9) Silver bordered reprint Artifact cards will be banned.

10) Proxies will not be allowed.

Hopefully we didn't overlook anything in our bannings and we will be able to keep the banned list as small as possable.

Tournaments are set to begin the first Saturday in November at 5pm and continue every Saturday at the same time. They are being held at Play the game read the story (AKA Altered States) in Carousel Mall. Entry fee will be the standard 5$ with Credit and/or a Dual land of choice being given out for prizes. If only 8 people show up they are giving out a Dual and the prizes go up based on attendence. We currently have about ten people with decks built planning on showing up weekly.

Bryant Cook

10-05-2008, 05:05 PM

Is this because Legacy is failing in 'Cuse?

konsultant

10-05-2008, 05:17 PM

Is this because Legacy is failing in 'Cuse?

No its because the game used to be fun. The majority of newer players don't seem to have much interest in our format but I haven't met anybody that played back when this was the entire card pool that isn't interested in this format.

I don't know whether Legacy is failing in Syracuse or not but Legacy in general isn't much in the way of actual fun. This format is apealing to the rogue players that most "serious" players consider a bye, you get to play all manner of ridiculous cards and still can actually win games with them. Look at this more like the original Type 2 format with the most powerful cards the game has printed.

m03

10-05-2008, 05:39 PM

2) Banned/Restricted cards

Mox's, Lotus, Walk and Recall will all be allowed as one of restricted cards

Channel-Banned
Mana Drain-Banned
Power Artifact-Banned
Ante Cards-Banned

Please note Timetwister is no longer a restricted card

3) That is everything that is banned or restricted, feel free to play things like 4x Demonic Tutor or Chaos Orb.

The Deck with 4x Mind Twist, 4x Strip Mine FTW.

Erhnam-Geddon should be fun too, as well as Land Tax-Fastbond.

4x Chaos Orb combined with anyone who remembers the thump-trick... it might as well read "Destroy target permanent(s)".

This idea kicks so much ass, you'll probably go blind. I so wish this was on the west coast.

cdr

10-05-2008, 05:45 PM

Nostalgia much?

I played during most of those sets; it was amazing then but I doubt I'd think much of it if I went back and played it now.

darth_adam

10-05-2008, 05:56 PM

If You Dont Want To Use Power.you Can Build A Really Good Deck For Like $100.most Of The Fun Old Stuff You Can Find For A $1.00. A Card.

Bryant Cook

10-05-2008, 05:56 PM

No its because the game used to be fun. The majority of newer players don't seem to have much interest in our format but I haven't met anybody that played back when this was the entire card pool that isn't interested in this format.

I don't know whether Legacy is failing in Syracuse or not but Legacy in general isn't much in the way of actual fun. This format is apealing to the rogue players that most "serious" players consider a bye, you get to play all manner of ridiculous cards and still can actually win games with them. Look at this more like the original Type 2 format with the most powerful cards the game has printed.

Don't lie to me. None of us play this game for fun.

darth_adam

10-05-2008, 05:59 PM

Don't lie to me. None of us play this game for fun.

That's not true. All the really bad players like myself play for fun!

konsultant

10-05-2008, 06:03 PM

The Deck with 4x Mind Twist, 4x Strip Mine FTW.

Erhnam-Geddon should be fun too, as well as Land Tax-Fastbond.

4x Chaos Orb combined with anyone who remembers the thump-trick... it might as well read "Destroy target permanent(s)".

This idea kicks so much ass, you'll probably go blind. I so wish this was on the west coast.

The rules are posted at the top, it would be friggin awesome if this picked up beyond Syracuse.

m03

10-05-2008, 06:23 PM

The rules are posted at the top, it would be friggin awesome if this picked up beyond Syracuse.

I would still prefer the B&R list from the era rather than the above, but it's close enough to the original to be completely awesome. Having played back when the sets listed were the format, and Chaos Orb was a real threat, I can say that it was great fun.

It will have the same problems as proxy-less Vintage, though. I wouldn't want to play unless I could play the cards I wanted to, which are now prohibitively expensive.

Gulkahn

10-05-2008, 07:53 PM

herbig

10-05-2008, 08:00 PM

This format is apealing to the rogue players that most "serious" players consider a bye, you get to play all manner of ridiculous cards and still can actually win games with them.

That's not true.

Nightmare

10-06-2008, 08:19 AM

Hey Rob from Play the Game. We are running Classic Magic Open play every Saturday in October at 5:30 at the store. Starting in November we will be running $5 tournaments for the event. If we get 8 or more players theres a revised dual land of choice (or store credit) up for grabs for the winner and some credit to other top finishers based on attendance.

I've been playing classic magic for a bit with geoff and tariq its a lot of fun and should be pretty easy to put a deck together from the piles of cards sitting in your basement!

Check out the event calendar for details and such:
http://www.playthegamereadthestory.com/events_list.php?ID=5

~Rob
So you're running it directly in competition with the one Legacy event that actually goes off in Syracuse during the week? How is this going to benefit the players in this area? Why should I actually go out of my way to allow this to be advertised here, when it has a direct negative effect on the Legacy scene in Syracuse?

I think the idea is fun, although not interesting to me, but if you're running it as a competitor to Legacy, then no thanks.

Zach Tartell

10-06-2008, 08:50 AM

Yeah, I'd rather have this Sunday or something. Or Friday night. But I seriously can't make it Saturday.

Almost feels like this is an attempt to draw a crowd away from the Comix Zone. Which is dirty.

Shriekmaw

10-06-2008, 10:19 AM

THATS NOT TRUE.ALL THE REALLY BAD PLAYERS LIKE MYSELF PLAY FOR FUN!

Your the only person I would know that would "TAP MY DAMN FORCE SO I COULDN'T SWING WITH IT".

Damn, I'm still pissed about that and its Monday.

Wallace

10-06-2008, 10:58 AM

10) Proxies will not be allowed.

FTL

Nihil Credo

10-06-2008, 11:07 AM

Old Fogey should be legal for this format.

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/uh/106.jpg

Shriekmaw

10-06-2008, 01:25 PM

FTL

We wanted to reward the people that went out and actually bought the cards, proxies would kind of ruin things.

This format is way more fun then Legacy, everyone should come and play.

We are using the current rules system with exceptions noted in Geoff's orginial post.

Wallace

10-06-2008, 04:25 PM

We wanted to reward the people that went out and actually bought the cards, proxies would kind of ruin things.

This format is way more fun then Legacy, everyone should come and play.

We are using the current rules system with exceptions noted in Geoff's orginial post.

I just thought, being a casual format and all, that a few proxies would be ok. IDK about you but I really don't want to spend $1,000's on a format that is supposed to be played for fun. I will have a deck built by the end of next week if anyone wants to play, it will have proxies in it so if thats a problem then don't bother asking to play.

darth_adam

10-06-2008, 04:41 PM

I just thought, being a casual format and all, that a few proxies would be ok. IDK about you but I really don't want to spend $1,000's on a format that is supposed to be played for fun. I will have a deck built by the end of next week if anyone wants to play, it will have proxies in it so if thats a problem then don't bother asking to play.

You can use the proxies if you want, but the point is, back in the day, you didn't have access to every card like you do now. You had to put a bunch of stuff in your deck that you didn't want. That's what made it fun.

Please refrain from using all caps! - Jander

darth_adam

10-06-2008, 04:47 PM

Your the only person I would know that would "TAP MY DAMN FORCE SO I COULDN'T SWING WITH IT".

Damn, I'm still pissed about that and its Monday.

Get over it! How did I know you weren't going to swing at me?

Wallace

10-06-2008, 05:27 PM

YOU CAN USE THE PROXIES IF YOU WANT.BUT THE POINT IS BACK IN THE DAY. YOU DIDN`T HAVE ACCESS TO EVERY CARD LIKE YOU DO NOW.SO YOU HAD TO PUT A BUNCH OF STUFF IN YOUR DECK YOU DIDN`T WANT.THAT`S WHAT MADE IT FUN.

Thats a good point but "back in the day" if I wanted a Lotus or mox I could go buy one for under $10...shit you could pick up all the power for under $10.

m03

10-06-2008, 06:13 PM

Thats a good point but "back in the day" if I wanted a Lotus or mox I could go buy one for under $10...shit you could pick up all the power for under $10.

During The Dark era, Moxes were hitting just around $30 - $40.

Check out this slice of history:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.deckmaster.marketplace/browse_thread/thread/16889d9193767fe1/bc005d1d1698240b?lnk=st&q=mox+sapphire+1994#bc005d1d1698240b

Moxes @ $28, Lotus @ $42, Twister @ $20, Orb @ $17, Icy @ $16.

Mmmmmm....nostalgia.

Also, Moxes are less powerful in the listed format since the minimum deck size is 75 cards.

Shriekmaw

10-06-2008, 06:34 PM

Thats a good point but "back in the day" if I wanted a Lotus or mox I could go buy one for under $10...shit you could pick up all the power for under $10.

Also, back in the day you couldn't go on ebay or the net and buy anything you wanted. The hard part was finding the cards, not how much they cost. Plus, a lot of us didn't have the money like we do now, so we can go out and get some of the expensive cards.

konsultant

10-06-2008, 07:39 PM

So you're running it directly in competition with the one Legacy event that actually goes off in Syracuse during the week? How is this going to benefit the players in this area? Why should I actually go out of my way to allow this to be advertised here, when it has a direct negative effect on the Legacy scene in Syracuse?

I think the idea is fun, although not interesting to me, but if you're running it as a competitor to Legacy, then no thanks.

First off you don't have to go out of your way to allow anything, alittle over serious don't you think? Secondly this format more or less is Legacy, just in its original form but we have all the knowledge about deck building that we didn't have back then.

I have ABSOLUTLY ZERO desire to complete with Legacy at Comix Zone. The fact of the matter is this, the core people we have that are going to actually show up every week have requested this time slot, end of that discusion. The people running Comix Zone are awesome and do a fantastic job. Personally I am tired of playing for packs I don't need and am excited to play in this new format. I will not be returning to Comix Zone regardless of when this event takes place but I wish them the best of success with thier tournaments and thier store, I can't say enough good about how good they have been to Magic players in the area. Altered is going to stock as many cards relevent to this format as possable making it possable to play tournaments to get cards for your deck.

If people would like us to move the time to Saturday mornings allowing them to play in both events please let me know and if it would increase our attendence I will suggest the change to the store and I don't see it being a problem. Currently I have nobody in that situation so I see no reason to change the time. The tournament must take place on Saturday in order for those of us that set this up to attend so unfortunately it can't be moved to another day.

Regarding proxies we all have decks with proxies in them, in fact I have a deck that is 100% proxies. I encourage showing up this month to play for fun but it is agreed that proxies will not be allowed in the actual tournaments. We are all handicapped by this, none of us have any power let alone shit like Gauntlet's of Might or other expensive rares from back then. To be honest Sol Ring as a 4 of is far more powerful than all 5 Mox's and is a fraction of the cost. We are attempting to recreate how things were back then and almost nobody had all the cards they desired, get creative. Personally I am running Black Knights because Juzam Djinn is 100+ each.

darth_adam

10-06-2008, 08:00 PM

Anyway`s if people buy power.Mayb we can get type 1 back in Syracuse.We had it going for a few month`s.It was alot of fun, and had good turn out`s.

Nightmare

10-07-2008, 09:13 AM

First off you don't have to go out of your way to allow anything, alittle over serious don't you think? Secondly this format more or less is Legacy, just in its original form but we have all the knowledge about deck building that we didn't have back then.This format isn't even remotely close to Legacy, and you know that. It's also not what this site was created for, which is another reason that yeah, I could very easily decide to not let you promote the events on here. If you're planning to run the event in the same time slot as Legacy at Comixzone, then you're in competition with that event for players. It's a fact. The same people who would be going to your event normally show up for legacy. It's bad enough that now, during the school year, we barely make 8 players consistently, and now you're taking probably half that base away. That is a serious deal to me, even if it isn't to you.

Personally I am tired of playing for packs I don't need and am excited to play in this new format.Great. Do it sometime when there aren't Legacy events going on across town.
I will not be returning to Comix Zone regardless of when this event takes place but I wish them the best of success with thier tournaments and thier store,Which you are working toward making less sucessful by drawing players away from.
I can't say enough good about how good they have been to Magic players in the area.So let's thank them by competing with them.
Altered is going to stock as many cards relevent to this format as possable making it possable to play tournaments to get cards for your deck.Altered stocks every card. Let me know when Mirrari's Wake is less than $5.

If people would like us to move the time to Saturday mornings allowing them to play in both events please let me know and if it would increase our attendence I will suggest the change to the store and I don't see it being a problem.I thin kI've made it pretty clear that if you cared at all about the health of the Syracuse Metagame, this wouldn't even have needed be asked.

Shriekmaw

10-07-2008, 09:37 AM

Anyway`s if people buy power.Mayb we can get type 1 back in Syracuse.We had it going for a few month`s.It was alot of fun, and had good turn out`s.

Type 1 just isn't that much fun when you get to play cards like Shivan Dragon, Juzam Djinn, Icy Manipulator, Nightmare, Demonic Hordes, Desert Twister, and Force of Nature.

I think I'm going to stay with Classic, its just more fun.

hyperchord24

10-07-2008, 09:54 AM

Shriekmaw

10-07-2008, 12:59 PM

This format seems more confusing than fun. Even though I'm a vintage player, I'd rather go to the Legacy tournament on Saturdays than this one (something I've been meaning to do). As for Play the Game, I saw they're trying to sell 1 Serra Avenger at $12. They go 4 for $12 on ebay. That's really not worth my time. Being in Carousel I'm sure inflates the prices as well.

Whats so confusing about the format? I think its pretty clear from the opening post on what sets you can play and what cards are banned. I forgot how much fun magic was before I started to play this format.

It's just flat out cool.

Getsickanddie

10-07-2008, 02:06 PM

m03

10-07-2008, 02:31 PM

This is silly. This format is going to get stagnant real quick with such a small/terrible cardpool. Also, if you are trying to attract newer/casual players, a format where you can play 4x Timetwister isn't the answer.

This is going to fail pretty quickly.

Small cardpool, yes. For comparison though, the cardpool for T1 didn't really grow much in the old days even with new sets, since the sets had large amounts of suck (FE, IA, CH, etc). It was still fun and interesting. Terrible? Hardly.

Using present day knowledge, I can see several card interactions that were completely overlooked back then that could have been viable/competitive strategies.

Nihil Credo

10-07-2008, 02:39 PM

This is silly. This format is going to get stagnant real quick with such a small/terrible cardpool. Also, if you are trying to attract newer/casual players, a format where you can play 4x Timetwister isn't the answer.

This is going to fail pretty quickly.

I think that if anything is going to make this format fail, it will be the first time someone draws a hand of 1 land, 6 3cc+ spells and is told he cannot mulligan.

saspook

10-07-2008, 02:47 PM

So in this format, Mana Drain is BANNED. Meanwhile Library is a 4 of?

m03

10-07-2008, 03:39 PM

I think that if anything is going to make this format fail, it will be the first time someone draws a hand of 1 land, 6 3cc+ spells and is told he cannot mulligan.

Except that's the way it was for the first four years of Magic's existence. Your opponent had the exact same limitation. It's one of the things that made combo-ish decks weak, IMHO.

So in this format, Mana Drain is BANNED. Meanwhile Library is a 4 of?

I thought that was weird too. Not having access to Drains is strange. I doubt 4x Library is much of a concern....who has 4x Library, or would buy them just for an unsupported format?

Shriekmaw

10-07-2008, 03:44 PM

So in this format, Mana Drain is BANNED. Meanwhile Library is a 4 of?

Yes, that is correct. Mana Drain is way more broken than Library. I don't think Library is that good, especially when your limited to 1 or 2 color decks and 75 cards. We did some testing before we can out with a solid banned and restricted list. That is why power artifact is banned.

darth_adam

10-07-2008, 03:54 PM

darth_adam

10-07-2008, 05:30 PM

There`s no reason why Nightmare should pull this thread.If anything he should be happy that Geoff`s not comeing anymore.Now mayb he can come in first in a tournament.hahahaha!

Not using ALL CAPS was only Step 0. Now begin to write properly or warnings will start flying around like teenager knickers at a Tokio Hotel concert. - Nihil Credo

NIHIL CREDO.YOU CAN GO FUCK YOUR SELF!

http://xs232.xs.to/xs232/08412/1626.jpg

Warning for General Asshattery. Also for making me Google Image for "teenager knickers". If the police comes knocking at my door I'm telling them you made me do it.

Brushwagg

10-07-2008, 08:53 PM

Carousel I'm sure inflates the prices as well.

No it's just how they price the cards.

@Format: Winter Orb Prison > this format.

hyperchord24

10-08-2008, 09:33 AM

No it's just how they price the cards.

@Format: Winter Orb Prison > this format.
Perhaps I was a little unclear. I'm assuming that the rent in Carousel is astronomical, which is why their singles are more expensive.

crazyroundman

10-08-2008, 10:16 AM

Perhaps I was a little unclear. I'm assuming that the rent in Carousel is astronomical, which is why their singles are more expensive.

Perhaps he was unclear. I believe that he's referring to the fact that Altered States/How You Change the Name/Change the Name, Move the Store has historically overpriced their cards.

Shriekmaw

10-08-2008, 12:48 PM

Perhaps he was unclear. I believe that he's referring to the fact that Altered States/How You Change the Name/Change the Name, Move the Store has historically overpriced their cards.

They have priced there cards very high for as long as I played there. I don't know why its a hugh deal, just don't buy cards there. It's still a great place to play and being in the mall you have access to anything else you might want to do before or after magic tournaments.

I really believe the more people that go out and build classic decks, the more you guys will actually enjoy playing magic. The format is very balance with games going a lot longer than your used to, especially if you played Legacy for a long time.

Bryant Cook

10-08-2008, 01:41 PM

They have priced there cards very high for as long as I played there. I don't know why its a hugh deal, just don't buy cards there. It's still a great place to play and being in the mall you have access to anything else you might want to do before or after magic tournaments.

I really believe the more people that go out and build classic decks, the more you guys will actually enjoy playing magic. The format is very balance with games going a lot longer than your used to, especially if you played Legacy for a long time.

Nick, do we need your games going any longer? ;-p

Shriekmaw

10-08-2008, 01:49 PM

Nick, do we need your games going any longer? ;-p

Don't worry, you probably won't be playing against me anytime soon. There is no point in playing in local Legacy events anymore. Especially, since I'm having a lot of fun playing Classic magic.

Getsickanddie

10-08-2008, 06:28 PM

It's still a great place to play and being in the mall you have access to anything else you might want to do before or after magic tournaments.

Except for clean conviently located toilets, someplace to smoke, and not being in that monstrosity of a fucking mall.

konsultant

10-09-2008, 12:59 PM

Look I'll be the first to say that the price's are overpriced on pretty much every card at Altered States, guess what it's a store and they want to make money. Nobody can expect to pay Ebay prices at any store. Personally I don't buy cards from there but I am more than happy to get credit at thier store since they have an enormous collection of singles and are willing to stock pretty much anything you ask them to.

I am annoyed about having to walk to the bathrooms or to go smoke as well but the bestbuy bathrooms and outdoor entrance are pretty much right around the corner from Altered.

The time of this event will not be changing, to date not one single person has asked me to have this event in the morning because they wanted to attend both events. There are 3 Legacy events in Syracuse every week, Tues and Sat at CZ and one on Sundays at Altered. This one event every week is not going to bring the end of Legacy in Syracuse. Perhaps Tuesdays may become the prime event day of the week for Legacy but I'm sorry I can't change this event to another day of the week.

@Nightmare: This format is the original format of the game back before there were different formats. Yes we made some small tweaks in order to keep things as balanced as possable but in essence it's the way the game was in it's original creation. The prime difference between extended and legacy is the ability to play all of the old cards so yes I stand by saying this is the original Legacy format. Since you didn't play the game when Legends was a new set, like I did, I don't expect you to understand or agree with me but that's my opinion on things. You do have the authority to remove this thread but there are numerous Legacy players like me that played back then and are eager to get this format going. The only reason you would be removing this thread is because you want everyone to continue going to Comixzone on Saturdays every week, your opinion on this matter is biased and I believe if you feel this thread is actually not relevant to Legacy players that you should leave it up to a moderater that is not directly affected by these events to actually remove this thread. Perhaps you could move this over to the community board if you feel it would be more fitting in that forum.

I do not believe this format will become stale at any point in time. We have pretty much the first almost 5 years worth of cards, the old sets were nowhere near as limited as the sets they print currently not to mention the game wouldn't have survived if there wasn't enough in these original sets to keep people playing.

boris13

10-11-2008, 08:47 PM

We can thank Getsickanddie for the clean toilet at Comix Zone from now on.

konsultant

11-12-2008, 08:20 PM

Timetwister, Wheel of Fortune, Braingeyser and Mana Drain (previously banned) have all been added to the restricted list. After a couple weeks of actually playing we realized our lack of foresight and in our zealous to allow everything to be played we did not account for the power of Underworld Dreams and Black Vise when paired with 8x Draw 7's and 4x Braingeyser with a ton of Artifact Mana.

The draw spells were the problem that lead to the Banning of Power Artifact and Channel prior to this so we decided to restrict the draw spells to balance things some without taking away any other cards. Power Artifact and Channel may come back as unbanned or restricted cards in the near furture but we need to due some more testing now that the deck has lost it's draw engine.

T-ORGANIZER

11-12-2008, 09:34 PM

konsultant

11-12-2008, 09:50 PM

We sell at ebay price :smile:

I will vouch that Rob has adjusted numerous prices on cards for me when I have seen them and they were not at "Ebay Prices".

I would not go crazy and say that all of your prices are Ebay prices, your dual land pricing for example? They are considerably better than they were in the past, closer to how things were when Allen ran things.

Happy Gilmore

11-12-2008, 10:03 PM

m03

11-12-2008, 11:12 PM

Shelling out money for bad overpriced cards? Seems god aweful and a waste of time.

They're playing Standard?

konsultant

11-14-2008, 08:14 PM

Yea, I feel sorry for those in Syracuse. Sucks having your community split. But it makes me wonder, I can't think of even one person I know who would think playing this format is a good idea. Shelling out money for bad overpriced cards? Seems god aweful and a waste of time. This seems more like a format you play around a dinner table then in an actual tournament. How many people show up to these things anyway?

It is a kitchen table format, that was the point. If there was a prize support in Syracuse for the Legacy weekly tournaments Legacy would have more appeal. As it is if i'm gonna play the same 8 people every week i'd rather just have fun and play for something worth some money. I doubt there will be any decrease in attendence at the larger events, I know i'll still be at them. We have gathered about a dozen people who are interested in the format but it's looking like we will need to allow proxies.

cupajoe

11-15-2008, 08:42 PM

Not that I live in Syracuse or anything, but this format intrigues me.....

I might make a humble suggestion, though

Perhaps you should allow all the sets through the Mirage block, as there was a massive influx of players starting around 4th Edition, through Ice Age etc. That was when the game REALLY took off

After Mirage block, the speed of the game picked up considerably so I would argue that Weatherlight would be a good stopping point. It would still give players lots of sets to choose from, allowing for a nice variety of decks

A lot of these folks, if they were marketed to, would probably play in a format like that.....75 cards, no sideboard, old-school Magic....Sounds like a blast....I would play in something like that if I lived there.....

Oh, and obviously the banned and restricted list would need to be adjusted.....