Brainstorming: Legacy 5/3 aka brown stompy

[Media314r8]

A list:

// Lands
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (4)
4 [MOR] Mutavault
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [7E] Island (2)
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod

// Creatures
4 Juggernaut
4 [MR] Solemn Simulacrum
4 [ALA] Master of Etherium
4 [FD] Trinket Mage
4 [ALA] Etherium Sculptor

// Spells
4 [SH] Mox Diamond
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
2 [ALA] Sigil of Distinction

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 [CH] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [TE] Propaganda
SB: 4 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 4 [10E] Crucible of Worlds

An Idea:
While after the restriction of every good card in flash and storm-based combo, vintage has become more 'fair.' A top-teir deck in vintage is still '9 sphere.' Workshop aggro is also up there. Legacy does not have workshops, but legacy also doesn't have to worry about first turn moxen and lotus, so landing 3sphere on turn one isn't as necessary. Can huge brown dudes still win games with goyf in the format? Perhaps, with the help of relic, but this deck may hold some promise anyhow. A mix between stacks, affinity, dreadnaught, and stompy, the deck may have something going for it other than it's pricetag. (pretty much all cheap as hell save for wastes and mutavults) Master of etherium might have been what this deck needed to come into existence. Ideas, thoughts, criticism all appreciated. I don't think it has tier one potential, but it could be (without the 8 high priced lands) a budget way for newcomers to come into and learn the format, and pay homage to magic's original underpriced king of fat: juggs.

I'm off to MWS test.

[B]List Updated 14 Oct 2008

I dropped 3sphere from the main, and am testing sphere of resistance and crucible. Mage and Solemn have been the nuts, and sigils have been hugemongous.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

It's my understanding that 5/3 evolved into/was consumed by Dragon, Faerie, and Angel Stompy. That's not to say that a more control and artifact dedicated build isn't worth trying, but it's something to consider.

What's the justification for Thorn of Amethyst? It doesn't work well with Trinisphere and you lack the mana disruption to make it back breaking.

[Jaynel]

It's my understanding that 5/3 evolved into/was consumed by Dragon, Faerie, and Angel Stompy. That's not to say that a more control and artifact dedicated build isn't worth trying, but it's something to consider.

What's the justification for Thorn of Amethyst? It doesn't work well with Trinisphere and you lack the mana disruption to make it back breaking.

Master of Etherium might justify running the suite of artifact creatures.

Some thoughts:
Crucible seems good in the maindeck, with 8 manlands, 4 Mox Diamond, and 4 Wastelands.
Trinket Mage seems poor.
Equipment seems good.

I'd try something like this:
5/32K8
Manas (28)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Mox Diamond

Beats (16):
4 Master of Etherium
4 Juggernaut
4 Synod Centurion
4 Arcbound Ravager/Grid Monitor/Steel Golem?

Locks and Stuff (16):
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Crucible of Worlds
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Ravager and Master of Etherium don't play that nice together, but c'est la vie.

Sideboard would include some amount of Relic of Progenitus, because that card is NUTS. Also Pithing Needle and the fourth Trinisphere.

[Captain Hammer]

Fairie Stompy runs 13 blue sources. This deck runs 12, the manabase is pretty much Fairie Stompy's but with one less Blue Source.

So why cut Sea Drake, Serendib Efreet, Force of Will and other goodies?

You gain Master of Epitherium.

Doesn't seem worth the trade. I guess it's a nice alternative for people who want to play Fairie Stompy but can't get the Sea Drakes and FoWs.

[idraleo]

why run Trinisphere over Forces? Is a more artifact based strategy better than running, for example, +4 Forces and +4 Thirst? That's only a mere idea but running something that goes this way?

// Lands
5 [CS] Snow-Covered Island
3 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [EX] City of Traitors

// Creatures
4 [ALA] Master of Etherium
4 [FD] Synod Centurion
4 [MR] Somber Hoverguard
4 [10E] Juggernaut
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager

// Spells
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
2 [SOK] O-Naginata
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [ALA] Courier's Capsule
4 [MR] Thirst for Knowledge
4 [AL] Force of Will

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 2 [SC] Stifle
SB: 3 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 4 [A] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 4 [TE] Propaganda

[Nihil Credo]

I think Faerie Stompy does the "FoW + acceleration + big guys" business better than that.

The idea behind a colourless Stompy deck, it seems to me, should be running Wasteland, Mishra's, and maybe Mutavault or Rishadan Port.

[Media314r8]

It's meant to be more colorless, I'm not attempting to make a watered down FS here. Trinket Mage has been the nuts with fetching chalice, sigil, or relic. 3sphere is bleh in this deck, I may test a sphere or two, but I've changed the opneing post quite a bit.

[Tacosnape]

I think Faerie Stompy does the "FoW + acceleration + big guys" business better than that.

The idea behind a colourless Stompy deck, it seems to me, should be running Wasteland, Mishra's, and maybe Mutavault or Rishadan Port.

QFT. And not to mention, you know, making it actually colorless.

My manabase for all my 5/3 decks I experiement on is the reason I'd ever consider running the deck. It lets me run an obscene 12 manlands (4 Factory, 4 Muta, 4 Nexus), resulting in obscenely huge Blinkmoth Assembly Worker Mutavaults, or just a ridiculous army of facebeaters. And even if you don't want to run Blinkmoth? Port gives you 8 accelerants, 8 mana denials, and 8 manlands. Colorless has huge benefits.

The other neat thing about 12 manlands is that it lets you run Cathodion and Su-Chi without any real drawbacks, as any mana accidentally stuck in your pool can be used to activate a manland repeatedly.

[kicks_422]

I've tried colorless 5/3 before, with the full 12 manlands and Su-Chi's and Cathodions and such. IIRC, I even submitted it to the previous CANGD contest. You know what I found out? If the opponent resolves something remotely good for them, that deck dies. Seriously. That's why I think for a deck like this to be successful, it needs to focus on mana denial and beat face while the opponent is recovering.

[Tacosnape]

I've tried colorless 5/3 before, with the full 12 manlands and Su-Chi's and Cathodions and such. IIRC, I even submitted it to the previous CANGD contest. You know what I found out? If the opponent resolves something remotely good for them, that deck dies.

Yep. No argument. Tarmogoyf was the nail in an already rapidly closing coffin.


Seriously. That's why I think for a deck like this to be successful, it needs to focus on mana denial and beat face while the opponent is recovering.

Like, say, Dragon Stompy?

[Happy Gilmore]

Yea, Moon is probably still more devastating than Wasteland or Port to most of the format.

[kicks_422]

Like, say, Dragon Stompy?

Yup. That's the reason why I abandoned colorless 5/3... Dragon Stompy just did everything better than what I wanted the deck to do. And besides, Rakdos Pit Dragon is way cooler than Juggernaut.