The Counterbalance thread

[raharu]

Well, I figured that it would be nice to have a resource thread devoted to one of everyone's favorite Enchantments and all the neat little synergies that work well (or not so well, but still work) with it, as well as a few things to keep in mind when building Counterbalance.dec. Obviously, there is Sensei's Divining Top and it's asthmatic, less popular red-haired step-cousin Scroll Rack, but there are obviously other cards, such as effects like Academy Ruins and GOGO LIST:


Artifacts

1cc
Sensei's Divining Top (rearrangement effect)
2cc
Scroll Rack (rearrangement effect + replacement)
Grindstone (clears the top of the library)

Instants

1cc
Reclaim (replacement effect)
Brainstorm (replacement effect)
Mystical/ Enlightened/ the other Mirage tutors (selective/effective replacement effect + tutor)
2cc
Impulse (clears the top of the deck)
Predict (clears the top of the deck)
Magma Jet (instant speed scry 2)
Lim-Dul's Vault (clearing + rearrangement + tutor + pseudo-shuffle)
3cc
Intuition + recursion lands (and shuffles the deck)
4cc
Fact or Fiction + recursion lands (and clears the top of the deck)
Gifts Ungiven + recursion lands (and shuffles the deck)

Sorceries

1cc
Ponder (Shuffle and rearrangement)
2cc
Life from the Loam (clears cards from the top of the deck)
3cc
4cc
Nightmare Void (clears cards from the top of the deck)

Enchantments

1cc
Soothesaying (requires an asston of mana, should most likely be removed from the list)
2cc
Sylvan Library (the only card that can keep a 3cc card on top at all times + draw)
Sterling Grove (tutors for and protects Counterbalance)

Creatures
Lands
Fetchlands
Volrath's Stronghold
Academy Ruins




So... Any other additions, outside of the other various draw spells (I just listed the typical ones/ ones with other functions than shuffling/ drawing)?

As far as guidelines and suggestions, there are a few things to look at when building CounterBalance.dec, the main thing being the Mana Curve of the deck. With that in mind, what are the minimum amount of slots that should be run in each point on the curve? Is 14 enough in the 1cc point? Is 14 enough in the 2cc point? Are there any special consideration that should be given to cards that have above-average synergy with Counterbalance (i.e. is it okay to run somewhere around 10 cards on the 2cc point if you play Enlightened Tutor/ Mystical Tutor/ LDV/ recursion lands?)?

Also, what is the typical minimum amount of lands that is required to effectively operate Counterbalance + Top? I've seen threshold lists do it on 16, but... that's threshold. They have a grand total of 12 cards they actually cast with a CMC of 2 or more, at the most.

Afterthought: resource threads-

Using Counterbalance (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11592)

ICBE Countertop-control (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8200)

It's The Fear- Control in the New Era (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9724)

TEC- The Epic Control (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8199)

[Citrus-God]

I'm touched my deck is up there, but that deck is inferior to It's the Fear. I'd suggest that you replace my link with ITF.

[raharu]

I'm touched my deck is up there, but that deck is inferior to It's the Fear. I'd suggest that you replace my link with ITF.
lolwhoopswtf? I totally forgot ITF existed for a while there :3

Fixed, thank you, and ICBE Countertop Control is staying in the OP, so :tongue:

[etrigan]

Enchantments: Soothsaying is ridiculous if you dont mind spending a shit load of mana each turn.

Portal tutors are all Sorceries, btw.

[Shugyosha]

Magma Jet has been played in Balanced Threshold from time to time. Repeal and Ice let you see another card. Accumulated Knowledge also affects set-ups but is not flexible enough for the job.

Dark Confidant has no synergy with Balance as such other than he can be protected by it. Confidant and Top are quite a team however.

Grindstone can mill you to find new cards on top or mill an opponent to meddle with his Balance. Obviously Grindstone is only viable in Paintercombo but people keep forgetting that Grindstone can be activated without a Painter.

Although nobody but me (I guess) ever tested Reclaim, it can be pretty sick with Balance. It usually counters a spell and brings you back removal or a creature. Still it's shitty on its own.

Regarding creatures I can only think of Vendilion Clique. Yeah it is bad...


Enchantments: Soothsaying is ridiculous if you dont mind spending a shit load of mana each turn.

Well, the format does mind I'm afraid.

[chokin]

Enchantment:
Mirri's Guile (G) - SDT only on the upkeep though :/
Sylvan Library (1G) - Helps get rid of the top for the cost of some life.
Eyes of the Watcher (2U) - When you play an instant or sorcery, you may pay 1 to Scry 2

Land:
Volrath's Stronghold - Put a creature on top.
Academy Ruins - Put an artifact on top.

Instant:
Mental Note (U) - Clears the top. I think it sucks though.
Gifts Ungiven (3U) - Shuffles and grabs neat stuff kinda like Intuition.

Creature:
Descendant of Soramaro (3U) - 1U look at the top X cards where X is # of cards in hand, put in any order.

All of these are pretty bad though lol. Except the lands, which are used in It's The Fear.

[raharu]

Enchantments: Soothsaying is ridiculous if you dont mind spending a shit load of mana each turn.

Portal tutors are all Sorceries, btw.
DAMNIT! I meant the Mirage tutors. Fixed.

[raharu]

I hate to double post, but I'd like to reiterate the question of how many cards at the 1cc and 2cc points on the Mana Curve are needed to make Counterbalance generally effective.

GOGO LIST FUNCTION:



TEC-
At the 1cc point: 11
At the 2cc point: 10
At the 3cc point: 8
ICBE Countertop control-
At the 1cc point: 15
At the 2cc point: 10
At the 3cc point: 6
ITF-
At the 1cc point: 11
At the 2cc point: 11
At the 3cc point: 9
UGbw Threshold
At the 1cc point: 24
At the 2cc point: 12
At the 3cc point: 0
Ugr Dreadstill
At the 1cc point: 15
At the 2cc point: 15
At the 3cc point: 3

*Special Notes:
TEC has little to no way of altering the top of it's library, outside of fetchlands, SDT, Brainstorm, and it's draw spells (Meditate. Thirst for Knowledge).

ICBE Countertop Control ran Cunning Wish -> Mystical/ Enlightened Tutors, and Impulse in addition to fetchlands, SDT, Brainstorm, and but no draw.

ITF runs Intuition, Life from the Loam, and Volrath's Stronghold, in addition to fetchlands, SDT, Brainstorm, and draw in the form of Etched Oracle.

You already know about threshold :tongue: Then again it doesn't hurt to say that outside of the stray Predict, threshold doesn't have any special mechanisms of deck manipulation outside of Ponder, which isn't all that relevant outside of setting up Chalice @ ??? for a turn.

Dreadstill (the Ugr version) runs Brainstorm, Fetchlands, SDT, and nothing else relevant to Counterbalance outside of the stray Standstill that might somehow clear your top 3 in a convenient scenario, I guess.

I won't interpret that data yet, I'd rather let you all have a crack at it first.

[frogboy]

Loam and Nightmare Void are both pretty insane with Top.

[GreenOne]

There's also Sterling Grove. Not much effective, but maybe one day we'll have a CounterEnchantress deck. Hope not though.