What Should I Play In My Metagame?

[Koby]

Hi there. I'm pretty new to legacy, and just started going to my local shop with a good ole fashioned burn deck a few weeks ago. It seems like everybody there is either playing goblins or countertop miracles. Got any recommendations for what I should build next? Given a choice between the two, I'm much more stumped on the CBtop match-up. It doesn't seem to have a bad match-up as far as I can tell. Lets pretend that money is no object...whats CBtop's black beast?

BG Abrupt Decay decks are starting to knock the CBtoplock decks out of contention.
If this deck is giving you trouble with Burn, I would suggest to look at picking up Vexing Shusher.

[Julian23]

Sulfuric Vortex is insane against most slow and grindy control decks, especially UW Miracles.

[Xoth]

Most definitly, sulfuric vortex as well as smash to smithereens-ing their stoneforged batterskulls has been pretty clutch. Ill admit I am still making play errors, walking into daze or getting my fetches stifled...its just a frustrating matchup, and I would love to bring something tailor made to hose it.

For example, last week I was in topdeck mode and drew a fireblast when my opponent had an active counterbalance+top and 4 life. Sweet! Except he spins a brainstorm into his hand, then brainstorms a terminus from his hand to the top of his deck for the CB trigger. I was very surprised CB would hit my 6cc cards.

BG with abrupt decay..... I saw a BG pox thread, or maybe BUG landstill or Aggro Loam? I'm sorry if this seems dense, but I'm not sure where to begin the research process.

Its not so much that I'm having a terrible time with burn, its more that I feel ready for a new deck. I was planning on making a storm deck, but with all the countertop I don't think that's such a good idea. The primer Miracle control is the only list I see with countertop. Its in DTB and suggests that Goblins and Ichorid are its worst matchups. I don't really want to join in the stores mob mentality of running goblins, and the way the one guy that runs dredge grumbles about the matchup it doesn't seem promising.

It also feels weird to me for a supposedly well tuned control deck to not be able to deal with aggro. Results are results I guess.

So goblins, something BG with abrupt decay, maybe dredge?

I'll see what I can find playing abrupt decay. Thanks for the tips.

[psrex]

I currently have two decent Legacy decks, RUG Delver and Turbo Eldrazi, and I'm looking to build something else for variety.

I play at a fairly small store, so 8 to 16 players is normal for our monthly Legacy tourneys. There is wide variety of decks, with at most two of any one deck. So far I've seen:

Elves
Sneak & Show
High Tide
Hive Mind
Storm (not sure which variety)
Stoneblade
Miracles
BUG (Jace, Bobs, etc.)
Pox
Goblins
Infect
Dredge
Zombies deck with Gravecrawler/Carrion Feeder
several rogue decks

Sometimes I'm tempted to take my Candelabras from Turbo Eldrazi and play High Tide, but I'm afraid that I'd bore myself and my opponents. I'm more seriously thinking of building some variant of Nic Fit or a MUD deck. Is there something else that I should look at instead?

[DragoFireheart]

I have nearly all of the cards needed to make U/W Miracle control (no Volcanics, sold them recently to make Modern decks) and Esper Blade Control.

Which deck is better in a blind meta?
Which has a lower skill level?
Which is better in multi-player games like Two-headed giant and free-for-all?
Which is more fun (in your opinion)?

[Einherjer]

Which deck is better in a blind meta? I'd prefer Miracle as it crushes some random unexpected undeveloped aggrodecks, while Counterbalance (if you decide to run it) shuts down alot of decks too, where you wouldn't have prepared for.
Which has a lower skill level? Miracle, Esperblade is a lot harder to play, but (in a well developed meta) stronger
Which is better in multi-player games like Two-headed giant and free-for-all? No idea, I'd guess Miracle?
Which is more fun (in your opinion)?]I believe Esperblade to be more fun, decision and deckwise

[korstructure]

I'm going to a Legacy 2k in a month and I have a good idea of what decks I'll see in multiples. Could really use your help picking a deck!

I expect to see primarily combo and secondarily aggro. There will be a lot of budget decks. In order of frequency:


Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
Burn
Storm
Goblins


I know that I could play against Blouses, Elves, and High Tide as well. Any suggestions on what to play? I can build just about anything. Thanks in advance for your help!

[Julian23]

Depending on how much impact it already had on people's sideboard choices, I really like Omnishow in that meta. Reanimator is unfavorable but the rest are really ok-very good matchups.

[korstructure]

Depending on how much impact it already had on people's sideboard choices, I really like Omnishow in that meta. Reanimator is unfavorable but the rest are really ok-very good matchups.

Cool, thank you. Any other options besides Omnishow that you think would be reasonable? I'm going to set up a gauntlet with my playtest group and I'll definitely start with Omnishow. What else would you consider?

Or does anyone else have any suggestions for the meta I outlined?

[The Treefolk Master]

I have the following metagame, and can build any non-combo blue based deck in the format, the more controlling the better (I enjoy control decks):

ANT 5 6,25%
Miracles 5 6,25%
Monored 5 6,25%
BUG Control 4 5,00%
Belcher 4 5,00%
RUG Delver 4 5,00%
Reanimator 4 5,00%
Jund 3 3,75%
Sneak and Show 3 3,75%
Nic Fit 3 3,75%
12-Post 3 3,75%
Stoneblade 3 3,75%
Affinity 3 3,75%
Junk 3 3,75%
Channel Elfball 2 2,50%
BW Aggro 2 2,50%
Team America 2 2,50%
Dredge 2 2,50%
Food Chain 1 1,25%
BW Tokens 1 1,25%
UR Delver 1 1,25%
Infect 1 1,25%
Monobrown 1 1,25%
Dragon Stompy 1 1,25%
UW Old School 1 1,25%
Soldiers 1 1,25%
Goblins! 1 1,25%
Dragonstorm 1 1,25%
Hypergenesis 1 1,25%
Wildfire 1 1,25%
Zoo 1 1,25%
Maverick 1 1,25%
Bant Blade 1 1,25%
Rock 1 1,25%
High Tide 1 1,25%
BUG Aggro 1 1,25%
White Weenie 1 1,25%
Enchantress 1 1,25%

After doing the math (stupid forum won't let me paste a table), there's 30.00% combo decks, 17.50% Control decks, 20.00% aggro decks, 11.25% aggro-control decks, 10.00% Midrange decks, and 11.25% Ramp/Stax/miscellaneous decks.

[jamis]

Of non-combo blue decks, I like being BUG control here. Probably something similiar to what BBD was playing a few months ago http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/41624 Maybe with Zuran Orb in the SB to help against Burn, RUG, UR, and Zoo.

[kirdie]

My meta consists mostly of RUG Delver, Show & Tell, Stoneblade (UWB+WB), Storm and some Jund, what would be a good deck against this?
I have UW Miracles (which I always get many draws with even if I try to play fast my oponents play slowly), Burn, RG Beats with no tarmogoyf and Monogreen Elves with one cradle and I could play UW Stoneblade too (just dont have Clique, Karakas, SoFF and Geist).

[Philipp2293]

My meta is a tempo/combo meta, mostly RUG for the tempo part and Show and Tell variants for the combo portion (though there is a very skilled ANT player here too). You have some outliers like Jund and BUG, but blue control and tribal is mostly absent. I'm pretty much able to build anything.

Looking forward to your suggestions. Thanks!

[ESG]

@ kirdie: Miracles should be good there, although you didn't mention which version. Rest in Peace makes the RUG matchup easier. Jund is probably the toughest matchup. I probably would run Enlightened Tutor and Humility for the Show and Tell decks.

@ Philipp2293: Do you have experience with Pox? It's never going to be a Tier 1 deck, but I like it against those decks. I think a BUG tempo deck with Delver and Tombstalker would also be solid.

[catmint]

My meta is a tempo/combo meta, mostly RUG for the tempo part and Show and Tell variants for the combo portion (though there is a very skilled ANT player here too). You have some outliers like Jund and BUG, but blue control and tribal is mostly absent. I'm pretty much able to build anything.

Looking forward to your suggestions. Thanks!

Why not play the jund deck again you played last time? Very good edge versus RUG. If you really expect some show&tell combo, maybe dedicade some of the sideboard discard slots to specific show&tell like hate against top-decks (oblivion ring).

[Madmaniac21]

MUD and Combo infested meta. 1-2 Stoneblade. I've been playing Tin Fins to success (V little gyard hate), but curious if anyone has thoughts as to what else I might play.

I can build anything (with the exception of Candelabras).

[Megadeus]

BUG? You get Abrupt Deck to break all of MUDs things and Force of Will + Discard to stop combo

[Madmaniac21]

BUG? You get Abrupt Deck to break all of MUDs things and Force of Will + Discard to stop combo

On further thinking, part of my success with Tin Fins has been the complete lack of gyard hate. Might rock Dredge

[Tylert]

In an unprepared meta, dredge is king.

[John Cox]

Hey, I'm interested in playing lab man doomsday ( I have most of the cards). But is it still a viable deck in legacy? I have no idea what's in my meta game.

[Deadpool09]

I play in armada games Saturday night legacy.

Crowd is usually 10-16. Not that big but it can be pretty diverse especially when the regulars switch decks every two weeks.
But the constant are
Reanimator
Mud
Dark maverick ( same thing just splashing black for death rite and abrupt decay)
rug delver.

These are the decks that pops up here and there.
Affinity
Belcher
Esper stoneblade
Elves
Bunch of rouge decks and home brews.

I have merfolk, affinity, and esper stoneblade completely built.
I know the easy thing to say is play esper, but honestly I keep losing with it. I'm seriously considering building rug or my version of bug delver which has nimble mongoose instead of Tombstalker , and adding ghastly demise and abrupt decay for remobpval. What deck should I play, or should I go for bug or rug delver

[jamis]

Yeah, I don't think Stoneblade is the best choice in that meta, and Affinity is definitely not where you want to be. Merfolk doesn't seem like a bad call and Team America seems really well positioned so I'd say either of those would be good choices, probably leaning towards Team America.

[chlb]

At the moment I have Manaless Dredge and Burn as my legacy decks, with dredge seeing more play and burn being my loan deck. I want to get more deeply into the format and start investing into a "proper" deck. The problem is that I can't decide on where to start and what deck would be good for me in the long run.

Here's a list of decks I've seen played at local events or know the players have at their disposal:

Esper/UW Stoneblade
RUG/BUG/UR/UWR Delver
UW Miracles
Shardless BUG
TES/ANT
Belcher
Show & Tell
Junk/Rock
Maverick
Death & Taxes
Goblins
MUD
Elves
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Merfolk

with TES and Delver decks usually seen in top 8s.

In standard/modern I like playing fairly aggressive decks and putting pressure on my opponent. In modern I also enjoyed UR Storm until the banning of Seething Song.

I find the following appealing: Elves, Maverick, Nic Fit (Recurring Nightmare), Eva Green / GB Aggro, Deadguy/Deathrite Ale.

Some of the decks I listed share staples between them, so eventually I would be able to expand into other decks but I should pick something as my starting point.

What would you suggest given the metagame and my preferences?

[noahgs]

Hello, i play at a shop called fantasy games in saint louis. The meta is very heavily combo oriented. On average i see storm, dredge, show and tell decks, goblins, merfolk, reanimator, rug delver, metal-crafter, occasionally elves, and dark maverick (once) i was thinking uwr miracles, i am playing sneak and show right now. I like how miracles defeats dredge easy, and rip is good against goyf/mongoose too. I am wandering if the lack of proactive protection like discard. Is esper miracles a thing or would stoneblade just be the better choice. Oh and i also see burn and a black red deathrite burn discard thing

[Griselpuff]

Anybody know of any decks with a good match-up vs. Delver, Storm and Show and Tell variants?

[JanoschEausH]

Yup! Play RUG Delver yourself!

@chlb: I would also reccommend that you try to build RUG Delver. It's the best deck to invest into, because it will hold it's worth and is a strong competitor anywhere. If i had the moneys i would be building that deck asap.

[Zombie]

Anybody know of any decks with a good match-up vs. Delver, Storm and Show and Tell variants?

TES is also good if you're willing to put in the work. It's typically the faster combo deck, has Silences instead of discard so cares less about bs like Leyline out of Show and Tell, and is able to dump a dozen Goblins on T1 much more consistently than other Storm decks, something Deler decks typically have trouble dealing with.

[Maro_]

hi,

I play exclusively on MTGO, and I want to learn play Storm.
I know... but first of all, I need to take some version and learn.
This is all about it, should I try ANT or TES?
could you give me some hint what Storm version to pick?
If ANT, with or without Wishes?

I would be thankful for any help with that :)

[Zombie]

TES / The Epic Storm: TES, like most engine combo decks, is a thinking man's deck. It is also definitely a gambling man's deck. TES is the most explosive not-all-in engine combo deck in the format, and the best Ad Nauseam deck in the format. Sometimes, you go nuts and kill them T1 with a Grapeshot for 47 (which isn't the main point - the 160 Goblins are). Other times, you play much like RUG Delver, barely hanging in there while eking out wins by the skin of your teeth. TES is always the aggressor no matter the matchup, and it's long game leaves something to be desired. And it is a gambler's deck. Ad Nauseam in TES is much more consistent than in other decks, but still a risk. Sometimes the only way out is to play Diminishing Returns and hope. The thing that made me quit TES as my main deck is the frequency at which the hands tell me "12 goblins on T1 or T2, go" (<-incidentally RUG Delver flat out loses to that game 1). I like playing games that last a few turns, TES is a bit too close to Goldfish.dec sometimes for my tastes. And I hate Burning Wish. Still, you want speed without losing to FoW, served with a side of intricate lines of play, TES is your deck.

ANT/ Ad Nauseam Tendrils: The other "sane man's Storm deck". Despite the name, ANT is actually a Past in Flames deck. It has a more wasteland-resistant mana base, better ability to play the long game backed by the power of Cabal Ritual and it's greater number of cantrips. It is a slower deck than TES, winning on T1 much, much less often. ANT's Ad Nauseams suck. But playing it is just fun. It's the control player's combo deck, I feel, unless you're intent on running High Tide. You haven't played Magic until you've hit Gitaxian Probe into Cabal Therapy.

[Maro_]

TES / The Epic Storm: TES, like most engine combo decks, is a thinking man's deck. It is also definitely a gambling man's deck. TES is the most explosive not-all-in engine combo deck in the format, and the best Ad Nauseam deck in the format. Sometimes, you go nuts and kill them T1 with a Grapeshot for 47 (which isn't the main point - the 160 Goblins are). Other times, you play much like RUG Delver, barely hanging in there while eking out wins by the skin of your teeth. TES is always the aggressor no matter the matchup, and it's long game leaves something to be desired. And it is a gambler's deck. Ad Nauseam in TES is much more consistent than in other decks, but still a risk. Sometimes the only way out is to play Diminishing Returns and hope. The thing that made me quit TES as my main deck is the frequency at which the hands tell me "12 goblins on T1 or T2, go" (<-incidentally RUG Delver flat out loses to that game 1). I like playing games that last a few turns, TES is a bit too close to Goldfish.dec sometimes for my tastes. And I hate Burning Wish. Still, you want speed without losing to FoW, served with a side of intricate lines of play, TES is your deck.

ANT/ Ad Nauseam Tendrils: The other "sane man's Storm deck". Despite the name, ANT is actually a Past in Flames deck. It has a more wasteland-resistant mana base, better ability to play the long game backed by the power of Cabal Ritual and it's greater number of cantrips. It is a slower deck than TES, winning on T1 much, much less often. ANT's Ad Nauseams suck. But playing it is just fun. It's the control player's combo deck, I feel, unless you're intent on running High Tide. You haven't played Magic until you've hit Gitaxian Probe into Cabal Therapy.

thanks for Ur post.
I played a bit Storm some years ago, borrowed from my friend - it was TES. A bit all in, for me..
I would probably try ANT, but still those lists I'm looking are separated into many piles, one with Burning Wish, other with one Grim Tutor etc. another without those cards.

Is this a good pick for a Storm beginner? I really like the points hes talking about:
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/25829_Legacy-Storm-Primer.html

[Zombie]

Yup, Prosak's list is a very good starting point (and just plain good deck).

[apple713]

At the moment I have Manaless Dredge and Burn as my legacy decks, with dredge seeing more play and burn being my loan deck. I want to get more deeply into the format and start investing into a "proper" deck. The problem is that I can't decide on where to start and what deck would be good for me in the long run.

Here's a list of decks I've seen played at local events or know the players have at their disposal:

Esper/UW Stoneblade
RUG/BUG/UR/UWR Delver
UW Miracles
Shardless BUG
TES/ANT
Belcher
Show & Tell
Junk/Rock
Maverick
Death & Taxes
Goblins
MUD
Elves
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Merfolk

with TES and Delver decks usually seen in top 8s.

In standard/modern I like playing fairly aggressive decks and putting pressure on my opponent. In modern I also enjoyed UR Storm until the banning of Seething Song.

I find the following appealing: Elves, Maverick, Nic Fit (Recurring Nightmare), Eva Green / GB Aggro, Deadguy/Deathrite Ale.

Some of the decks I listed share staples between them, so eventually I would be able to expand into other decks but I should pick something as my starting point.

What would you suggest given the metagame and my preferences?


These are the decks in your meta

Aggro 9
Control 3
Combo 5

total 17


you obviously play a combo deck here. my preference would be omnitell or sneak and tell. you should top 8 / win almost every week unless you goof.


just incase you dont know the wheel of magic

Aggro > control
Control > combo
Combo > Aggro

since the majority of decks in the format are aggro, you crush them with combo. The strategy in playing omnitell or sneak and tell over other combo decks is they have control elements which puts them slightly more favorable than dredge, belcher, and tes/ant. you should win those matchups with omnitell or sneak and tell.



ANT/ Ad Nauseam Tendrils: The other "sane man's Storm deck". Despite the name, ANT is actually a Past in Flames deck. It has a more wasteland-resistant mana base, better ability to play the long game backed by the power of Cabal Ritual and it's greater number of cantrips. It is a slower deck than TES, winning on T1 much, much less often. ANT's Ad Nauseams suck. But playing it is just fun. It's the control player's combo deck, I feel, unless you're intent on running High Tide. You haven't played Magic until you've hit Gitaxian Probe into Cabal Therapy.

this is a great description however a control players combo deck would be omnitell or sneak and tell.

[[SLAYER]chaos]

I showed up to the my first week at Redcap's corner in Philadelphia to field absolutely filled with combo. Lots of storm, elves, show and tell, and at least one reanimator running around. What do you think would be the best deck to bring into that type of metagame seeing as the combo comes from so many different directions.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

chaos;739881']I showed up to the my first week at Redcap's corner in Philadelphia to field absolutely filled with combo. Lots of storm, elves, show and tell, and at least one reanimator running around. What do you think would be the best deck to bring into that type of metagame seeing as the combo comes from so many different directions.

UW Control.

[Kobal]

Maybe a slight derail of the thread topic, but since the question does not necessarily warrant its own thread ...

Basically I am looking for a deck to play. (Surprise!) And since my local metagame is quite diverse AND fluctuating from tournament to tournament the best course of action seems to me to pick an archetype I like and spend money to get the cards and time to perfect or more realistically at least improve how I play it. Which works better with an archetype I enjoy.

Now my biggest favorite would be an almost instant based draw-goish hardcore control deck (yes, I am one of those sick persons, I loved the original Draw-Go as well as Invasion Era Nether-Go), however in a format with threats as varied as in Legacy that no longer seems like a viable option. So on to the next best (?) thing, some nice blue based combo deck, ideally with some solid control elements.

The way I see it that category currently consists of three potential candidates:
Classical Sneak&Show (Show and Tell or Sneak Attack into Emrakul or Griselbrand)
Monoblue Omnitell (Enter the Infinite based)
High Tide.

Would those of you more versed in some or all of these archetypes maybe give some advice on the relative strength of each, the playstyle differences and some general sketch of good/bad matchups?

P.S: If one of you knows of a competitive control shell containing at least three of each Force of Will, Brainstorm, Counterspell and Snapcaster Mage I'd also be happy to hear about it.

[Megadeus]

Maybe a slight derail of the thread topic, but since the question does not necessarily warrant its own thread ...

Basically I am looking for a deck to play. (Surprise!) And since my local metagame is quite diverse AND fluctuating from tournament to tournament the best course of action seems to me to pick an archetype I like and spend money to get the cards and time to perfect or more realistically at least improve how I play it. Which works better with an archetype I enjoy.

Now my biggest favorite would be an almost instant based draw-goish hardcore control deck (yes, I am one of those sick persons, I loved the original Draw-Go as well as Invasion Era Nether-Go), however in a format with threats as varied as in Legacy that no longer seems like a viable option. So on to the next best (?) thing, some nice blue based combo deck, ideally with some solid control elements.

The way I see it that category currently consists of three potential candidates:
Classical Sneak&Show (Show and Tell or Sneak Attack into Emrakul or Griselbrand)
Monoblue Omnitell (Enter the Infinite based)
High Tide.

Would those of you more versed in some or all of these archetypes maybe give some advice on the relative strength of each, the playstyle differences and some general sketch of good/bad matchups?

P.S: If one of you knows of a competitive control shell containing at least three of each Force of Will, Brainstorm, Counterspell and Snapcaster Mage I'd also be happy to hear about it. you could slip snap casters in here somewhere for sweet intuition piles

http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/deck_tech_loam_control_with_da.html

[alphacat]

I expect my meta to have:

Shardless
Deathblade
Lands with wishboard
12posts
D&T
Elves

Any idea as to what I should bring?

[apple713]

I expect my meta to have:

Shardless
Deathblade
Lands with wishboard
12posts
D&T
Elves

Any idea as to what I should bring?

Combo.... Your meta is practically all aggro

Ant or s&t

[Megadeus]

TeS rapes that meta. Bring the black power.fist.

[alphastryk]

I expect my meta to have:

Shardless
Deathblade
Lands with wishboard
12posts
D&T
Elves

Any idea as to what I should bring?

Blood Moons. Only Elves & D&T can beat it.

[Ivan]

I have a two-day tournament where I have to play 2 different decks. For the last day, the main event, I will play Omnitell and I dont know what to play the other day. Firstly, I want to play a so different deck so no combo or decks similar to Omnitell, and secondly the meta is combo, all types of combo, so give me some advice. Thank you a lot! :)

[Julian23]

If your meta is infested with combo and you are a very good player, go for Canadian Threshold. Otherwise, you might want to pick a different aggro-control deck. Archetype-wise, these decks usually give combo the most trouble.

You want to be fancy? Pick some sort of Stax.

[apple713]

I have a two-day tournament where I have to play 2 different decks. For the last day, the main event, I will play Omnitell and I dont know what to play the other day. Firstly, I want to play a so different deck so no combo or decks similar to Omnitell, and secondly the meta is combo, all types of combo, so give me some advice. Thank you a lot! :)

if there is really that much combo, play D&T and run extra combo hate main. such as 4 thalia instead of 3, ethersworn canonist, and possibly glow rider depending on how all in your want to go. and 4 moms. They cant beat it....unless they land a dread of night

[Barook]

Doesn't Reanimator prey pretty well on combo decks?

[Philipp2293]

So, my metagame is pretty infested with combo and tempo decks, with control decks mostly gone, also Death and Taxes is pretty popular. I'm able to build pretty much everything, so feel free to suggest any decks which are both good vs combo and tempo.

[catmint]

Your meta sounds interesting. Miracles is a deck which can be tuned very well to beat both. Counterbalance, RIP (helm), Clique and Fluster main. All cards which are great against RUG and combo.

[enfiladecadence]

Hello,

My meta is fairly small but the decks I need to beat are all varieties of Miracles/Countertop, Death and Taxes, and 4 color Hoogland Loam. Multiple deck suggestions would be great as I don't have access to everything but possible access to a lot. Thanks!

[bjholmes3]

The Tier 1 deck to consider is Sneak Show, it has an even matchup with Death & Taxes, a good one with Miracles, and a great one with Loam. Other decks to consider are Goblins (bad against Loam, though), Lands, Merfolk (also bad against Loam), and 12-Post (which has a great matchup against both DnT and Miracles).

[DragoFireheart]

It's that time again!

What's the best deck for a blind-meta? (AKA, I have no idea what everyone is playing)

[Einherjer]

UGx Tempo, UWx Control or Ux Combo.

Greetings

[DragoFireheart]

UGx Tempo, UWx Control or Ux Combo.

Greetings

Hello.

Ux Combo: does this include ANT, TES, Sneak and Show, OmniShow, Hypergenesis, and Reanimator? Or strictly two color combo decks (ANT and Sneak and Show)?

[Einherjer]

It probably boils down to Show and Tell and ANT, with TES being third.

Greetings

[thefreakaccident]

The obvious answer is to run blue yourself.

If you want a nonblue answer to this metagame, I would say maverick with tons of good storm hatebears, and chokes in the board. You don't want to play a black splash.

[Piceli89]

Which could be in your opinion a blue deck that has good chances in a metagame where the rampant forces are Show and Tell, Canadian, Miracles (Snapcaster versions) and Jund? I'm breaking my head trying to come up with some UWx concoction, but I can't seem to find any.

[DragoFireheart]

Which could be in your opinion a blue deck that has good chances in a metagame where the rampant forces are Show and Tell, Canadian, Miracles (Snapcaster versions) and Jund? I'm breaking my head trying to come up with some UWx concoction, but I can't seem to find any.

Wouldn't Shardless BuG have all the tools you want for those decks? Force/Discard for SnT, Lilly for Miracles, Decay and DRS for Canadian, and a faster cascade against Jund.

[Piceli89]

Wouldn't Shardless BuG have all the tools you want for those decks? Force/Discard for SnT, Lilly for Miracles, Decay and DRS for Canadian, and a faster cascade against Jund.

Show and Tell and Jund are, respectively, bad and slightly bad matchups for Shardless BUG (the latter because of Punishing Fire which, in the long grind, demolishes all of BUG's threats but Goyf).

[Julian23]

I can confirm: Punishing Fire beats the crap out of Shardless. Played it a lot before/during/after GP Straßburg and the only games I ever won were the ones where I was able to successfully use Surgical Extraction on Punishing Fire. Once you've done that it get's much easier because you've got so much more card advantage and more planeswalker. But generally speaking, the matchup is not very good.

S&T combo is so-so. The main problem is the slow clock of Shardless. I'd much rather play a completly different deck..

Some sort of Esperblade with Vendilion Cliques and enough discard might be ok but I doubt you'd get above 55% against any of these decks.

[Nocley]

My weekly/bi-weekly meta consists of a lot of Goblins, DnT, Miracles, Jund, Elves, and Lands, with very little combo, shardless, or delver. I've been having issues with trying out DnT because of how many creature based decks there are, and how they easily skirt around a lot of what DnT has. My main options are Delver in any color combination or Shardless, though I'm not a fan of the elves and DnT matchup that Shardless has, as well as Jund from a few posts up. Should I be assembling a combo deck, and just accept my bad DnT matchup? Or something else?

[Julian23]

To be fair, Elves vs Shardless is also pretty much favors the green dudes; and Lands is an abyssmal matchup if they have tech to handle DRS (as Lands deck these days should). So I don't really know about D&T but Canadian Threshold should be pretty much 50/50 against most of these decks. Just remember to prepare your sideboard accordingly: less additional countermagic, more crowd control.

[Megadeus]

It's funny because allot of the posted metas get raped by belcher/TES /SI. Overall though right now in general I think storm is very well positioned

[ironclad8690]

It's funny because allot of the posted metas get raped by belcher/TES /SI. Overall though right now in general I think storm is very well positioned

I would have to agree. I think the decks that pose the biggest problem to storm are miracles and maverick/death and taxes, and both are somewhat low right now. Tempo decks are even, and most of the BGx decks don't have enough to stop a good storm player.

[crow_mw]

While not strictly 'what should I play in my metageme' I do believe this is the correct topic to ask my question.

During incomming break I intend to introduce two of my friends, a married couple, to Legacy. They have seen Magic before and grasp basic concepts. They are also both very vivid and skilled board game players. What I intend to do is prepare two proxy decks for them, so they can play each other at home.

From what I have gathered from her, Jund seems like type of deck she would enjoy the most. Bolt your board than swing to the dome with cool creatures.

What I am looking for him is a deck that a) will have nice, interactive game with her deck and b) have an even chance of winning, so their results are mostly skill based as they both progress. Point a) is why I did not choose small Zoo for her - not very interactive.

The obvious question to you guys is what deck to choose for him. If you care to elaborate, maybe I should choose a different deck for her as well? As a side question - flavor-wise I think goblins would be very nice for him, but tbh I don't know how gobs fare against Jund.

[Megadeus]

While not strictly 'what should I play in my metageme' I do believe this is the correct topic to ask my question.

During incomming break I intend to introduce two of my friends, a married couple, to Legacy. They have seen Magic before and grasp basic concepts. They are also both very vivid and skilled board game players. What I intend to do is prepare two proxy decks for them, so they can play each other at home.

From what I have gathered from her, Jund seems like type of deck she would enjoy the most. Bolt your board than swing to the dome with cool creatures.

What I am looking for him is a deck that a) will have nice, interactive game with her deck and b) have an even chance of winning, so their results are mostly skill based as they both progress. Point a) is why I did not choose small Zoo for her - not very interactive.

The obvious question to you guys is what deck to choose for him. If you care to elaborate, maybe I should choose a different deck for her as well? As a side question - flavor-wise I think goblins would be very nice for him, but tbh I don't know how gobs fare against Jund.
Maybe shardless? I'm not familiar with the match up, but it seems skill intensive. Or maybe maverick?

[Stan]

When I attempted to teach my girlfriend (now wife) to play, I made one single deck. We both drew our cards from the same library, which made it easier for me to explain the interactions of only a single set of cards. It was a goblin deck.
While not strictly 'what should I play in my metageme' I do believe this is the correct topic to ask my question.

During incomming break I intend to introduce two of my friends, a married couple, to Legacy. They have seen Magic before and grasp basic concepts. They are also both very vivid and skilled board game players. What I intend to do is prepare two proxy decks for them, so they can play each other at home.

From what I have gathered from her, Jund seems like type of deck she would enjoy the most. Bolt your board than swing to the dome with cool creatures.

What I am looking for him is a deck that a) will have nice, interactive game with her deck and b) have an even chance of winning, so their results are mostly skill based as they both progress. Point a) is why I did not choose small Zoo for her - not very interactive.

The obvious question to you guys is what deck to choose for him. If you care to elaborate, maybe I should choose a different deck for her as well? As a side question - flavor-wise I think goblins would be very nice for him, but tbh I don't know how gobs fare against Jund.

[Mewens]

Possibly headed to a tourney infested with GBx builds (Shardless Agent likely to show; Jund and Junk also likely candidates), UWx Miracles (including several RIP/Helm builds) and Storm (almost all PiF versions). It's a really hostile meta for Enchantress (well, the Miracles matches aren't that bad), but I'm competent (not amazing) with tempo builds. I was considering the Grixis-Pyromancer tempo deck; discard and counterspells seems pretty strong, all things considered, but I'm not really that familiar with the GBx matchups. Any advice?

[L0cke]

Possibly headed to a tourney infested with GBx builds (Shardless Agent likely to show; Jund and Junk also likely candidates), UWx Miracles (including several RIP/Helm builds) and Storm (almost all PiF versions). It's a really hostile meta for Enchantress (well, the Miracles matches aren't that bad), but I'm competent (not amazing) with tempo builds. I was considering the Grixis-Pyromancer tempo deck; discard and counterspells seems pretty strong, all things considered, but I'm not really that familiar with the GBx matchups. Any advice?

As far as the Grixis Tempo deck is concerned GBx decks are largely a favorable matchup in my experience. You've got a 4 pack of Bolts, and should have at least 2 dismembers somewhere in the 75 to eat Goyfs. Shardless in particular is easy, just save any stifles you're running for their ancestral visions/cascade triggers and they have a horrible pile of 1/1's and 2/2's to fight your men. Against them don't worry about stifling their lands (unless they are screwed off of a color already), they run 22-23 and 4 Deathrite Shamans. Save the stifle for their card advantage spells they have and for them trying to wasteland you. Jund is probably closer to even, depending on whether thay can resolve Hymn or Sylvan Library or not. If you can keep them off those 2 spells, and kill/counter their first Goyf or Bob you can probably win the game. Punishing Fire is kind of a bitch to fight through, but the Grixis Tempo deck I have been playing for the last couple months runs a pair of Tombstalkers in the 75 which Jund basically can't ever kill. Junk is probably the hardest of the GBx matchups, because if they resolve an early Mom they can royally screw you in the mid-late game. Thalia is also one of the most painful people for the grixis deck to fight through. Most of your men can't ever profitably attack or block through her, and if they Swords or Decay your Delvers you're basically stuck in a ground stale-mate which they will likely eventually win. Also, if your expected metagame has that many GBx decks, you might consider a 3 Force, 2 Misdirection split in the 75. Misdirecting their Decays to their best card is one of the most satisfying feelings, and will save all your small men from certain uncounterable death. Also, you should probably have 1-2 Perish in the board. It lets you save your spot removal for Bob, and just Perish away all their Goyfs and Deathrites.

Hope that helps a little.

[Mewens]

That does, actually – thanks!

[Barook]

What would you run in the current MODO (http://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/legacy) metagame?

[Julian23]

Choke. Maindeck?

Seriously, MODO is heavily Miracles-infected these days, followed by various kinds of Delver Aggro and a surprisingly high percentage of fast, graveyard-based combo.

[Megadeus]

Maybe a Junk Build of some kind with Thalia?

[Barook]

Maybe a Junk Build of some kind with Thalia?
How exactly would that solve the metagame? Isn't Junk way more black/discard heavy compared to Dark Maverick? Examples (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/6021813) would be here.


Choke. Maindeck?

Seriously, MODO is heavily Miracles-infected these days, followed by various kinds of Delver Aggro and a surprisingly high percentage of fast, graveyard-based combo.
I'm not too worried about GY-decks since enough tools exist to fight them properly.

Choke might work against Shardless BUG, but Miracles runs Mystic Gate to get around Choke. Forcing a Choke against Delver Tempo between Daze, Spell Pierce, FoW and mana denial isn't an easy task, though.

[Megadeus]

Im just throwing out suggestions. Maverick doesnt seem like the worst. You get to beat Delver, and if you get a Mom + Teeg you are in good position vs Miracles. And you have Thalia, Ooze, and such for the Combo decks.

[Julian23]

Having Mystic Gate is barely relevant when you're not getting rid of the Choke anytime soon.

However, I'm a bit biased here as I run a deck that Miracles will never side in Enchantment-Removal against, so Choke completly breaks them incredibly hard. I run Elves, btw. Also attacking them with 2 Pithing Needles because I feel Miracles is the bane of the MODO metagame these days.

[Barook]

Im just throwing out suggestions. Maverick doesnt seem like the worst. You get to beat Delver, and if you get a Mom + Teeg you are in good position vs Miracles. And you have Thalia, Ooze, and such for the Combo decks.
Maverick is horrible in that meta. Miracles, Elves, Punishing Jund, Shardless BUG and Painter are the top-placing decks and pretty unfavorable match-ups for it. As a Maverick player, I could care less about Delver decks if I actually faced them instead of horrible match-ups across the board.

Mom + Sylvan Safekeeper + Teeg is your only path to victory against Miracles since they can still bounce Teeg with their copies of Karakas and blow up the world afterwards.

[Megadeus]

Someone said a list of miracles, delver, and GY based combo. I don't think maverick is awful in that meta. You can tune the deck to have a decent game vs miracles.

[Barook]

You can tune the deck to have a decent game vs miracles.
Sure, you can do that when you run at least 3 Teegs somewhere in your 75 along with multiple Safekeepers and a full playset of Moms plus some activated ability blockers like Pithing Needle in the board, but Miracles isn't the only match-up to worry about.

Elves is an entirely different kind of kind of beast. Teeg stops their GSZ/NO shenanigangs, Canonist can slow them down. Both hatebears require protection, though, since they'll run ADs post-SB. Grafdigger's Cage kinda works here as well and doubles as GY-hate in certain match-ups. One-sided sweepers like Zealous Persecution and E-Plague are decent as well. Jitte is an all-star, but can easily be blanked if they have critter + bouncer. Julian certainly has a better insight on what actually hurts them.

GY decks can be kept in check with DRS, 2 MD Ooze and various hate like Bojuka Bog, Tormod's Crypt, Grafdigger's Cage, Surgical Extraction, etc.

BUG Shardless overwhelms you Liliana + tons of card advantage, while Jund does so with Liliana + PF. Their DRS make KotR a joke as a threat. Ooze is kinda decent at getting rid of PF, although Surgicals might be required to seal the deal. You can fight fire with with fire (Punishing Fire, to be exact), which is a great card in both match-ups (and fair match-ups in general), at the cost of destabilizing your mana base even further.

Painter is going to love that with their Moon effects. But I don't think this match-up is winable unless you want to tune it especially to beat that deck.

Sneak&Show is doable with SB O-Rings, Pithing Needle effects for their Sneak Attack and MD KotRs. Omnitell sucks, though. (S&T decks are over 10% of the meta)

While not properly represented in that list, you're also going to run into Storm combo which isn't that stellar as a match-up if they win the dice roll. Chances are you're dead before your T2 to get a hatebear online. T1 discard helps here, but that doesn't seem workable if you go for the PF build to beat BUG and Jund.

Maybe I can work something out based on Fabian Görzgen's GP list (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpstr13/welcome#1), but it's a tall order to cram all that stuff into one deck.

[Julian23]

My friend played a Maverick list tuned to beat Miracles to a Top8 at GP Ghent last year, one of the most Miracles-stacked Legacy tournament we might have had. It required playing 2-3 Pithing Needles in the sb, 2 Planeswalker (Elspeht & Garruk Relentless) in the main as well as an additional Planeswalker in the sb, among the obligatory Krosan Grips from what I remember.

Beating Miracles is an uphill battle and of course Punishing Fires also sucks, but Maverick is one of the most customizeable decks, so why not play it. Just because of negative EV??

[Barook]

My friend played a Maverick list tuned to beat Miracles to a Top8 at GP Ghent last year, one of the most Miracles-stacked Legacy tournament we might have had. It required playing 2-3 Pithing Needles in the sb, 2 Planeswalker (Elspeht & Garruk Relentless) in the main as well as an additional Planeswalker in the sb, among the obligatory Krosan Grips from what I remember.

Beating Miracles is an uphill battle and of course Punishing Fires also sucks, but Maverick is one of the most customizeable decks, so why not play it. Just because of negative EV??
EV?

Thanks for the insight. Double PW probably do a good job in the Jund and Shardless match-up as well. With that input, I've modified Görzgen's list for the first, rough draw:

4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
2 Taiga
3 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Plateau
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Maze of Ith
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Grove of the Burnwillows

4 Mother of Runes
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Noble Hierarch
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Knight of the Reliquary

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Punishing Fire
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

SB: 1 Oblivion Ring
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Engineered Plague
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Stony Silence
SB: 2 Krosan Grip

That's just a rough draw and the SB probably needs further work. I'm still uncomfortable with auto-losing to Storm combo on the draw. As far as additional PW are concerned, Xenagos might be interesting since his tokens are a full turn faster than Garruks and his colors fit the general build better than Sorin, Lord of Innistrad.

[BrettF]

I just did this because i'm always flaking between ANT and TES.
Step 1: gather a large sample of top16 deck titles from your relevant metagame (i took the last 8 SCG events).
Step 2: Give each deck name a tally for each top 16 placement.
Step 3: Figure out which deck you'd rather be playing against each archetype and note it beside the deck name.
Step 4:

Final TES Score: 79

TES> Reanimator: 11
TES> Elves: 6
TES> Omni-Tell: 6
TES> Sneak Attack: 6
TES> ANT: 4
TES> Goblins: 4
TES> Belcher: 4
TES> Imperial Painter: 4
TES> TES: 4
TES> U/W Miracles: 3
TES> Dredge: 3
TES> MetalWorker: 3
TES> Death and Taxes: 2
TES> Lands: 2
TES> WBR Deathblade: 2
TES> 4c Loam: 2
TES> Affinity: 2
TES> Deathblade: 1
TES> High Tide: 1
TES> 12 post: 1
TES> Oops, All Spells: 1
TES> Dark Maverick: 1
TES> W/B Stoneblade: 1
TES> 4c Cascade: 1
TES> Nic Fit Blue: 1
TES> Punishing Zoo: 1
TES> Aluren: 1

Final ANT Score: 50

ANT> RUG delver: 11
ANT> Shardless BUG: 8
ANT> UWR delver: 7
ANT> Jund: 5
ANT> Merfolk: 4
ANT> Grixis Delver: 3
ANT> 4c Delver: 3
ANT> Burn: 2
ANT> U/R Delver: 2
ANT> BUG delver: 2
ANT> GB LoamPox: 1
ANT> UWR Landstill: 1
ANT> Slivers: 1

So even though ANT is quite a bit better at playing through a lot of the tier one decks. In my opinion TES gets the nod because of its strength vs a diverse field.

[why]

My meta is something like this

delver variants - 20%
jace control decks - 15%
cascade midrange - 25%
vial aggro - 20%
other - 20%

Where other consists of the relatively small number of combo decks and the fringe decks. This is only a rough approximation, since there are a bunch of people. Putting Merfolk, Goblins, and Death and Taxes in the same category seems like it might be inaccurate.

The point is that the meta basically lacks combo as a whole and feels fairly hostile to combo.

My current approach has been to play UR delver decks that remove Force of Will for additional burn, which has been a fairly good plan for me so far- Force of Will is definitely not a necessary or good card against what people are doing here and Chain Lightning is very good.

So really, I'm looking for decks that beat almost everything that isn't combo. Guessing the answer is lands, but Wasteland is ubiquitous and Deathrite is prevalent so I'm not sure that's right.

[psrex]

I haven't played Legacy in a few months since my local store stopped running Legacy tournaments. In a couple weeks I'm going to be making a trip to a store that I haven't played at before for a tournament with about 50 players, and I'm not really sure what to expect there. I have the cards and could run Sneak and Show, Turbo Eldrazi or RUG Delver, and I'm about equally comfortable with the decks. Any suggestions on what I should run?

[Griselpuff]

Hi Paul, sneak and show is the best metagame call but turbo eldrazi is cooler

[John Cox]

I feel like playing something new and instead of playing with foreign stuff getting foils. This will mean I'm buying from scratch minus the old stuff. I'm trying to decide between Tin Fins or Nic Fit (with natural order) -although I would consider Reanimator.
Really trying to decide which is a higher tier deck.

[stage]

Hi all! Seattle, WA, here; I don't know anything about the meta so I would especially appreciate advice from others in the area, but any advice would be very helpful! My main issue is that most decks are out of reach in paper because of the cost of their manabases, and compromising on cost really hurts a lot of decks. I've found four decks I can afford without cutting cards/using substitutes:

Manaless Dredge
Dredge
Oops, All Spells!
Affinity

Thanks in advance,

stage

[BrettF]

I've found four decks I can afford without cutting cards/using substitutes:

Manaless Dredge
Dredge
Oops, All Spells!
Affinity

Thanks in advance,

stage

Not solid on the meta in your area, but i came up with some longterm budget plans.

I'd start with LED Dredge, then you can gradually expand your collection into TES/ANT/TinFins/Reanimator/ShowAndTell.

OR

Start with Mono Red Burn, gradually build into U/R Delver adding snaplands, a volcanic or two, and eventually FOW. From there you can add wastelands and move into multicolour delver variants.

[Gruby]

Hello. First of all sorry but I didin't used english for long time and my posts can look some kind crippled ;)

Last time I played magic was zendikar, stoneforge is my newest staple card for legacy.
Most of the time i played was Mercadian masques - onslaught and a little in first ravnica.
My favs decks was Rock, MUC (and standstill variations), enchantress. Now I sold lots of my cards and I don't want to get them back for so much money because now as husband and father I don't have so much time for competitive play.
However I still would like to play with friends and have a deck viable for some tournament.

Please give some advice for 2 decks (quite not expensive) with shells of BG(x) rock style and Ux (aggro)control with standstills. Not much duals, non combo style and not devastating fair decks so I can still play with friends :)

[Fatal]

Nic Fit as a BG not too expensive deck - about Control with Standstill which is cheap it will be difficult since most controls needs splash, there is U/R Control with Standstills http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?26663-Deck-Ur-Landstill - still in development but looks like it should fit to what are you looking for :)

[Cwilburn]

Hello,

I could really use some help in making a choice for a deck to settle into for the foreseeable future. I mostly play in local events in and around the Houston, Texas area, but would like to be able to compete in a larger event if it came nearby. My local metagame is fairly diverse with the following distribution:
2-3 RUG or UWR Delver
1-2 BUG Delver
1 Miracles
1 Stoneblade
1 Shardless
1 ANT
1 Dredge
2-3 Jund
1 Affinity
1-2 SnT/Sneak and Show
1 Death and Taxes
1 Elves

I currently have Shardless BUG built (I am missing 3 duals which I intend to acquire over time). I was able to acquire TNNs before the price went up. Here is my dilemma: I am torn between keeping Shardless and also having the ability to play Team America (both with or without TNN) or taking my recently acquired goyfs and zendikar fetches to get the ONS fetches, tundra, scrubland, and karakas to play Esper deathblade w/TNN or Stoneblade w/TNN or taking everything and trading into a complete miracles list.

Given the meta I have and looking for a deck that I can play long-term with and have the opportunity to do well what would you recommend? Overall I know I will enjoy each deck, in the end I always love playing the deck that had multiple lines to victory and rewards tight play.

Thank you all for the assistance. I look forward to being a member of the legacy community for many years to come.

[Cwilburn]

Hello,

I could really use some help in making a choice for a deck to settle into for the foreseeable future. I mostly play in local events in and around the Houston, Texas area, but would like to be able to compete in a larger event if it came nearby. My local metagame is fairly diverse with the following distribution:
2-3 RUG or UWR Delver
1-2 BUG Delver
1 Miracles
1 Stoneblade
1 Shardless
1 ANT
1 Dredge
2-3 Jund
1 Affinity
1-2 SnT/Sneak and Show
1 Death and Taxes
1 Elves

I currently have Shardless BUG built (I am missing 3 duals which I intend to acquire over time). I was able to acquire TNNs before the price went up. Here is my dilemma: I am torn between keeping Shardless and also having the ability to play Team America (both with or without TNN) or taking my recently acquired goyfs and zendikar fetches to get the ONS fetches, tundra, scrubland, and karakas to play Esper deathblade w/TNN or Stoneblade w/TNN or taking everything and trading into a complete miracles list.

Given the meta I have and looking for a deck that I can play long-term with and have the opportunity to do well what would you recommend? Overall I know I will enjoy each deck, in the end I always love playing the deck that had multiple lines to victory and rewards tight play.

Thank you all for the assistance. I look forward to being a member of the legacy community for many years to come.

Ok so I have narrowed my decision down to shardless or esper stoneblade. I have been scouring the boards and many sites to make this decision. With my meta being so varied but having a good amount of tempo and jund, I lean toward shardless with TNN but I can't shake the appeal of a better combo matchup, DnT, and aggro matchup that esper brings. Is my thinking correct? I would love to hear your thoughts. Will one deck stand the test of time better than the other?

[Nocley]

I'm seeing a lot of shift in my local meta to Delver, Stoneblade, and Lands. I really have no idea how to combat all three of them. I've been on combo like TES/ANT, but it's just too much delver for that, which makes me want to shy away from show and tell as well. Not too restricted with cards, I've just been having some bad streaks with what I'm at currently.

[Megadeus]

Blood Moon and dont look back. Imperial Painter, Werewolf Stompy, something. Blood Moon Stompy with Chalice of the Void.

[Collman]

I've been meaning to get into Legacy for a while now, and I think this may be the right time to start building something.

I generally enjoy playing control more than anything else, but I've played midrange and some combo (Storm mainly), and enjoy it. I generally like flexible decks where you don't always make the same play every game, and that can be at least a bit reactive.

I don't have a lot of legacy staples besides Scalding Tarns, Arid Mesas, Snapcasters, 3 Lilianas and some minor stuff like SDTs and decays. I have no set budget since I don't expect to get the whole deck together in a month, but Underground Seas are out.

There was a big legacy tournament a few weeks ago and the top 4 was composed of 2 jund (Jund won), 1 sneak y 1 URW delver, and the rest of the top 8 was Belcher, D&T, Bant auras and Elves.

I've proxied and played around with two decks, one is a BWg Deathblade list I put together (pretty standard, list here (http://pastebin.ca/2485453)) and the other one is UWr Miracles (this (http://pastebin.ca/2485454) list). I really like the flexibility DRS adds to a deck, but it feels almost wrong not to be playing blue in legacy.

What do you guys think is a better deck against the above? Should I consider something else entirely from what I've been playing?

[bjholmes3]

I want to introduce my local meta to Legacy, so I've taken a page from the book of EDH and decided to brew some Legacy "Intro Packs" that I can bring to let people play with to get a feel for the format without costing me a ton. However, I need some help putting 2-5 decks together, each preferably less than 100 dollars, and each with reasonable matchups one with another, so that hopefully people will get interested in the format.

[ESG]

I feel like playing something new and instead of playing with foreign stuff getting foils. This will mean I'm buying from scratch minus the old stuff. I'm trying to decide between Tin Fins or Nic Fit (with natural order) -although I would consider Reanimator.
Really trying to decide which is a higher tier deck.

I would say Reanimator is the strongest and most consistent of those decks.



Hi all! Seattle, WA, here; I don't know anything about the meta so I would especially appreciate advice from others in the area, but any advice would be very helpful! My main issue is that most decks are out of reach in paper because of the cost of their manabases, and compromising on cost really hurts a lot of decks. I've found four decks I can afford without cutting cards/using substitutes:

Manaless Dredge
Dredge
Oops, All Spells!
Affinity

Thanks in advance,

stage


Hi. Welcome to Seattle. What store or stores have you been playing at? I can't really recommend any of those decks at this point, as people still play too much grave hate for the graveyard decks to consistently perform well. Thus, Affinity is probably the best option by default, but I don't like its matchup against Miracles, which is likely to increase in popularity (and obviously Rest in Peace is lights out versus Manaless Dredge and usually against Dredge). All Spells is high-risk, high-reward. The Seattle meta is usually too heavy on Force of Will for those kinds decks to prosper, but a lot of it is also pairings, so run that if you're into gambling. If you play other formats and want to get into Legacy, I recommend selling off or trading out of Standard or EDH or whatever stuff you have of value and converting it to pieces for a Tier I Legacy deck. People frequently tell me their budget is only enough for a Tier III deck, and then I look through their binder and it has $800 worth of cards going unused. Card Kingdom buys a lot of cards and offers a 30 percent bonus if you take store credit, so that's a pretty great deal if you can't trade player-to-player. Consider if this is a possibility for you before buying into a deck that might not be as competitive or flexible as you want it to be.



Ok so I have narrowed my decision down to shardless or esper stoneblade. I have been scouring the boards and many sites to make this decision. With my meta being so varied but having a good amount of tempo and jund, I lean toward shardless with TNN but I can't shake the appeal of a better combo matchup, DnT, and aggro matchup that esper brings. Is my thinking correct? I would love to hear your thoughts. Will one deck stand the test of time better than the other?

Both shells are solid and should be close enough to other strong decks (e.g., Shardless shares many cards with Team America) that you should be able to switch things up without much trouble. Esper has also been around a long time and is pretty adaptable to any field. I think you'd be happy with either.



I've proxied and played around with two decks, one is a BWg Deathblade list I put together (pretty standard, list here (http://pastebin.ca/2485453)) and the other one is UWr Miracles (this (http://pastebin.ca/2485454) list). I really like the flexibility DRS adds to a deck, but it feels almost wrong not to be playing blue in legacy.

What do you guys think is a better deck against the above? Should I consider something else entirely from what I've been playing?

Definitely Miracles. If you like control decks, you should find Miracles a very satisfying experience.



I'm seeing a lot of shift in my local meta to Delver, Stoneblade, and Lands. I really have no idea how to combat all three of them. I've been on combo like TES/ANT, but it's just too much delver for that, which makes me want to shy away from show and tell as well. Not too restricted with cards, I've just been having some bad streaks with what I'm at currently.

I second Megadeus' suggestion. Blood Moon should be very strong there.

[Megadeus]

Not really a meta game involved I guess, but I'm planning on picking up green and black staples. I can't really afford to go BUG, but what splash color is better, red or white? I feel like both jund and junk are solid decks. What are the positives and negatives of both colors?

[Nuke is Good]

I'm probably going to another SCG Open in February and I'm debating on a second deck since Jund performed poorly for me in Providence (my local Metagame is mainly Zoo, elves, and Goblins so Jund made sense for me). I've been having trouble dealing with D&T, Storm, and Belcher.

I had a few decks I tested on on Cockatrice/MTGO with a friend and was wondering which would fare best the competitive scene.

Angel/Geddon Stax
Imperial Painter
Reanimator
Manaless Dredge (...just no)

[ESG]

Not really a meta game involved I guess, but I'm planning on picking up green and black staples. I can't really afford to go BUG, but what splash color is better, red or white? I feel like both jund and junk are solid decks. What are the positives and negatives of both colors?

Unfortunately, neither of those colors are blue, so WOTC is going to stick it to you either way. Biggest upside of red: Red blasts. Biggest upside of white: Swords to Plowshares. Swords got weaker due to TNN, so go with red. The bluer things get, the better red blasts become. It might soon be time to run them main. (Not kidding.)


I'm probably going to another SCG Open in February and I'm debating on a second deck since Jund performed poorly for me in Providence (my local Metagame is mainly Zoo, elves, and Goblins so Jund made sense for me). I've been having trouble dealing with D&T, Storm, and Belcher.

I had a few decks I tested on on Cockatrice/MTGO with a friend and was wondering which would fare best the competitive scene.

Angel/Geddon Stax
Imperial Painter
Reanimator
Manaless Dredge (...just no)

I would go with Reanimator and run Empyrial Archangel and/or Inkwell Leviathan so that your matchup with Death and Taxes sidesteps STP and Karakas. You also could run Massacre. I can't recommend Imperial Painter as long as so many people are playing Sneak and Show, but if that deck falls off, then I like Imperial Painter, too.

[helghast101]

As for me I am trying to get the most bang for my buck getting back into legacy. With no price concern, what would be better in the long run. I want something that does different things, and can hold its own against a large variety of decks. I don't like just turning guys sideways and protecting them(merfolk,goblins with mana denial), Or tempo decks like thresh play a guy, protect it. Whatever I make I want to have fun with for awhile considering it will be a hefty investment whatever I make. I like jund but I feel like I would get bored with it.

I have played in the past:
Goblins
Dredgee
Affinityy
Burn

I've narrowed my choices down to:
Death and Taxes- II like that it is a creature based control deck.
Elves!- Can go combo, aggro, or just alpha strike with one guy.
G/W Maverick- toolboxy aggro
Jund- When i got back in originally, i played this in standard for like a year and a half.

Any input would be appreciated. Or if there are any other decks that have options I am all ears.

[jumping salmon]

Love playing brainstorm, Spell Pierce, and islands. I like having multiple decision trees/complex lines of play even if for a linear goal. I don't mind turning dudes sideways but I enjoy empty creature boards. Got a budget of ~1k. What should I work on building? I haven't played in over a year and don't have many staples.

[JBlaze]

As for me I am trying to get the most bang for my buck getting back into legacy. With no price concern, what would be better in the long run. I want something that does different things, and can hold its own against a large variety of decks. I don't like just turning guys sideways and protecting them(merfolk,goblins with mana denial), Or tempo decks like thresh play a guy, protect it. Whatever I make I want to have fun with for awhile considering it will be a hefty investment whatever I make. I like jund but I feel like I would get bored with it.

I have played in the past:
Goblins
Dredge
Affinity
Burn

I've narrowed my choices down to:
Death and Taxes- I like that it is a creature based control deck.
Elves!- Can go combo, aggro, or just alpha strike with one guy.
G/W Maverick- toolboxy aggro

Any input would be appreciated. Or if there are any other decks that have options I am all ears.


Of the three that you listed I would go with Elves. It's powerful has proactive game plans and is a ton of fun. The problem with elves is that the cards pretty much go only into and Elf deck. My best suggestion is to build Storm it's powerful it really pays off the time that you invest in it plus the money cards LED"S and a few blue duals are a great place to start your legacy collection.

[psrex]

Love playing brainstorm, Spell Pierce, and islands. I like having multiple decision trees/complex lines of play even if for a linear goal. I don't mind turning dudes sideways but I enjoy empty creature boards. Got a budget of ~1k. What should I work on building? I haven't played in over a year and don't have many staples.

I would build UR Delver or RUG Delver with Quirion Dryads in place of Tarmogoyfs. If you're really starting from zero, it might come in at a bit over $1k, but the staples from either will be a huge help in building a lot of other decks if you decide to change.

[Piceli89]

Love playing brainstorm, Spell Pierce, and islands. I like having multiple decision trees/complex lines of play even if for a linear goal. I don't mind turning dudes sideways but I enjoy empty creature boards. Got a budget of ~1k. What should I work on building? I haven't played in over a year and don't have many staples.

Spiral Tide.

[uncletiggy]

I'm planning on attending the open in baltimore this January I'd like some advice selecting deck from a short list of options which are

Maverick (any non punishing fire version)
Junk/rock (any configuration)
Nic fit (bg or bgw)
All spells
Elves (only one cradle)
Zombardment
Affinity

I have some tournament experience with elves and maverick the rest would be first timers

Thanks in advance
Tim

[Megadeus]

Elves is the best if it had 4 cradles. With only one cradle... I think I'd rather play Maverick.

[psrex]

I'm planning on attending the open in baltimore this January I'd like some advice selecting deck from a short list of options which are

Maverick (any non punishing fire version)
Junk/rock (any configuration)
Nic fit (bg or bgw)
All spells
Elves (only one cradle)
Zombardment
Affinity

I have some tournament experience with elves and maverick the rest would be first timers

Thanks in advance
Tim

If you have experience with Maverick, then that might be the best choice. If you can get some practice in with Affinity, then that seems like a decent choice as well. I would stay away from All Spells as it is super fragile and people are generally prepared for combo due to OmniTell/Sneak and Show.

[uncletiggy]

I was leaning towards maverick or the rock tuned to beat true name tempo and combo. I guess the real question is what is the meta going to look like and is the prevalence of blue based decks going to supress combo or bolster it.

[Dragonslayer_90]

What are the decks that absolutely s***t on Imperial Painter. This is the only deck I consistently lose to when my Magic Club at my university has legacy tournaments. It's a small meta (only between 8-10 people show up usually) so there's always a chance of me facing it.

[say no to scurvy]

sneak attack and belcher

[Wilkin]

sneak attack and belcher

I would also add Death and Taxes to the list. Blood moon usually isn't that great because of several plains in the deck as well as Aether Vial. And Phyrexian Revoker is annoying for Painter to deal with. Mom too.

[Megadeus]

Oh a deck that attempts to win with a pile if permanents? DEED

[Kap'n Cook]

What are the decks that absolutely s***t on Imperial Painter. This is the only deck I consistently lose to when my Magic Club at my university has legacy tournaments. It's a small meta (only between 8-10 people show up usually) so there's always a chance of me facing it.

Tinfins, monoblue Omni, epic storm (if a good pilot), elves. any monocolor deck with an emrakul, belcher, burn, ur burn

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Oh a deck that attempts to win with a pile if permanents? DEED

Yeah... if ya got it, a properly tuned nic fit list can fight Painter lists fairly well.

[locifer]

I'm trying to get back into the swing of things but after a year out of it, I'm kind of unfamiliar with the meta. I played Thresh before I quit and am looking to try something different that would be good in my meta. The meta consists of a little bit of Deathblade, a fair amount of Shardless BUG, some small amounts of Jund and MUD with an occasional random deck or two (goblins, elves, omnitell, D&T, Pox, merfolk).

I'm not really sure what to play, but I know it's got to have decent game against some combo of Shardless, Jund and MUD. I can currently build most things and what I can't build I can usually borrow. I think the only real limitations are that I do not have Show & Tells or a full set of Underground Seas. I've had experience with Thresh, Goblins, Pox, Zoo, and practiced with Pact SI a fair bit (still need Bargains).

What would be some decent choices for that meta?

[DragoFireheart]

I want to play something that has Show and Tell in it.

It doesn't need to have red in it. In fact, I'd rather it didn't need red because I lack Volcanic Islands.

[Scott]

I want to play something that has Show and Tell in it.

It doesn't need to have red in it. In fact, I'd rather it didn't need red because I lack Volcanic Islands.

Hypergenesis is sweet.

[Megadeus]

Eureka show? Eureka in Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker for the lulz

[EpicLevelCommoner]

S&T + Reanimator?

[DragoFireheart]

Thanks for the suggestions.

How much fun is Omni-Tell?

[kingtk3]

Turbo eldrazi is also a thing, and can be played without candelabras (although without them and Red it will not be an optimized version).

[R431]

First of all, I want to say hi. I'm fed up with my Patriot, which I have played for over year. I want to change a deck. I won't play BGx Midrange and Blade decks, since I'm jumping off the wagon. In my meta I have Merfolks, Dragon Stompy, White Weenie / Budget D&T, Goblins and sometimes Affinity and Dredge. I had only problem with fishes, so I would be happy to play a deck that utterly crushes them. I love blue, but I don't really mind the colour. Beside that, I will avoid UB due to manabase price. Thank you for reading and replying.

[ESG]

@ Dragonslayer_90: If you want a throwback, Zoo is really good against Imperial Painter. Fast Zoo rather than Big Zoo.

@ locifer: Storm decks should prey on the lack of counterspells. Run Hurkyl's Recall and/or other bounce spells to shore up the MUD matchup.

@R431: Maybe try out a UW build. Supreme Verdict, Peacekeeper, Propaganda, Umezawa's Jitte, and Llawan, Cephalid Empress are all good cards against Merfolk. Dragon Stompy is largely ineffective against mono-colored or dual-colored decks. White Weenie has less interaction than Death and Taxes, so that should be an easy matchup; just don't get blown out by an Armageddon. Dredge loses to Rest in Peace protected with countermagic. Goblins would have trouble beating Propaganda outside of Krenko + Skirk Prospector, and you could level the field with Supreme Verdict or snipe Krenko with Swords to Plowshares. Most Goblin decks are probably built to fight Jitte, but it's still a devastating card against them if you get it online.

[janluis1]

My meta is made by

3 death and taxes
2 Bug nemesis delver
1 UR nemesis delver
1 patriot
1 jund
1 ANT (burning wish)
1 Sneak and Show
1 Monoblack Pox
1 Zoo
1 Rug Delver
1 Reanimator
1 Enchantress
1 Merfolk

What should I play?
Last time I topped8 with patriot and this time i was considering bringing Stalker's Team america.

Thoughts?

Tnx in advance

[ESG]

@janluis1: I would play Jund with some number of Golgari Charms in the main deck.

[janluis1]

@janluis1: I would play Jund with some number of Golgari Charms in the main deck.

cheers!

[Bucephalus]

cheers!
Assuming access to the entire card pool/no budget what is the best deck or archetype for a general meta game? I.e a few combo, tempo, a few esper blade and an infrequent odd miracle deck?


Is there an enduring list that I can master and keep piloting year after year with tweaking? I guess I'm looking for something with longevity to benefit from experience I gain playing it (with 50-50 matchup to most decks)

[Megadeus]

ANy Stoneblade style deck basically is what you are looking for.

[Bucephalus]

ANy Stoneblade style deck basically is what you are looking for.
The addition of the DRS in the deathblade variants - are they more to manipulate graveyards and create a hostile environment for graveyard interaction plans? I guess which is the most middle of the road of the many decks utilizing stoneforge mystic packages?

[Megadeus]

The addition of the DRS in the deathblade variants - are they more to manipulate graveyards and create a hostile environment for graveyard interaction plans? I guess which is the most middle of the road of the many decks utilizing stoneforge mystic packages?

I'm not a huge fan of Deathblade because it just takes a shit vs Blood Moon for the most part, but part of legacy is seeing how greedy you can be and getting away with it. I'm more a fan of the tradition UW splash black for like Thoughtseize and Lingering souls flashback, but I think that version is a tad dated.

[DragoFireheart]

I'm not a huge fan of Deathblade because it just takes a shit vs Blood Moon for the most part, but part of legacy is seeing how greedy you can be and getting away with it. I'm more a fan of the tradition UW splash black for like Thoughtseize and Lingering souls flashback, but I think that version is a tad dated.

We really need more decks packing Blood Moons, Magus of the Moon, and some number of Wastelands despite the disynergy.

[Drizzy]

Here's breakdown for our metagame:

2x Nic Fit (Junk)
1x Explorer Pod
1x Elves
1x BUG Delver
1x Agent BUG
2x Esper Deathblade
1x Mono W Stax
1x All Spells
1x Belcher
2x ANT
1x Pox
1x Mono R Sneak Attack

I have played around with variants of following archetypes: Nic Fit (Jund/Scapewish), UWR, Junk Stoneblade/Maverick/Deadguy Ale and UR Burn. All of the decks have had various success. I don't own Tarmogoyfs or Jace 2.0's so that's restricting my options quite bit.

I would appreciate if someone could direct my focus to right direction.

[Windmill]

Here is the breakdown of our meta:

1-2 x monored goblins
1-2 x affinity
1 x burn
1 x nic fit
1-2 reanimator
1 x MUD
0-1 x aggro, combo, budget elves
1-2 x bug

The rest are random combo/delver decks with stoneforge.

I'm playing Merfolk... a losing battle it seems.

I only have the pieces for Merfolk. I want to start building towards a new deck. Ideally one that won't cost any more than an additional $1,000. I can borrow mana lands (but not utility lands). Death & Taxes seems good but it is very hard to play.

[Tiago_B.]

Hi guys.

What usually goes around my area:

Monoblack control 1-5 (its really popular, but except 2 solid lists, most of them arent competitive).
BR control 1
UB Control 1
UWR Midrange (Snapcaster, Cryptic Command, Vendilion Clique, etc, and a sh*tload of instants, eventually wins with huge card advantage, he won last tournment) 1
UW Control 1
Burn 1
BG Infect 1

So most of them are control, with very few exceptions.

The decks that i personally own, are Affinity, Monoblack control (can be Pox), Burn, Tribal Elves (not combo, could change to it but i dont rly like elves). I have quite a few blue and white cards.


What should i play? Should i get another list going? If yes, what archetype would you recommend?

[ESG]

@ Drizzy: I like RUG Delver's chances against that field. Go burn-heavy in the Deathblade matchup if mana denial isn't enough. Sideboard Compost and Life From the Loam against Pox. Pox also should outright lose to a Sulfuric Vortex, but it's possible you won't reach three mana if you're on the draw.

@ Windmill: Sweepers look strong in that field, but as Merfolk, you don't have access to those. You have a lot of unfavorable matchups. If you're stuck with Merfolk for a while, you might try splashing black to play Engineered Plague. Stifle would be good vs. Nic Fit. Null Rod would be strong vs. Affinity and MUD. You probably just have to race Batterskull in the Stoneforge decks. I would try out either Tower of the Magistrate or Back to Basics. For small tournaments, if you're limited by budget constraints, I advocate sticking with a deck and heavily altering it if needed rather than scrapping it and buying into something else. If you're interested in Death & Taxes, proxy up the deck and playtest matches. This will teach you the deck and you'll also be able to see if it's a good fit for you before you start picking up cards for it.

@ Tiago_B.: Elephant Grass seems like it would be a wrecking against many of those decks. I don't know what Mono-Black Control encompasses, so I'm thinking there's a wide variety in your area. I like Enchantress in that field, but if you don't have the cards for that deck, then maybe Elves with enchantments would be good. There are some powerful green hosers that would be ridiculous in that field. See if you could work any of these into your Elf deck: Elephant Grass, Choke, Compost, Lifeforce (I've been wanting to use this one forever). I also like Dredge decks against that field, assuming people aren't playing a bunch of graveyard hate.

[Fl0do]

Hi,

I'm attending to tournament where I am expecting that the biggest part of the metagame is Combo (Storm, S&T, Reanimator), Delver-Decks and Miracles (the rest is typical Legacy-Randomness). What do you recommend for such a metagame?

I'm able to build almost everything except for S&T, Reanimator and MUD.

greetings and thanks, Bierbaron

[Tiago_B.]

@ Tiago_B.: Elephant Grass seems like it would be a wrecking against many of those decks. I don't know what Mono-Black Control encompasses, so I'm thinking there's a wide variety in your area. I like Enchantress in that field, but if you don't have the cards for that deck, then maybe Elves with enchantments would be good. There are some powerful green hosers that would be ridiculous in that field. See if you could work any of these into your Elf deck: Elephant Grass, Choke, Compost, Lifeforce (I've been wanting to use this one forever). I also like Dredge decks against that field, assuming people aren't playing a bunch of graveyard hate.

Thanks for the help, im thinking of using a BG deck, using mass discard, and recurring threats like Bloodghast/Gravecrawler/Tombstalker, LftL/Crop Rotation/land toobox. I might even slot in some Reanimate or Animate Dead to get my opponents creatures rolling for me if needed.
Compost is amazing cant wait to use it, just like Choke.

I had already thought of Dredge, honestly it seems great in this field, last tournment i didnt saw a single g-yard hate card.

Anyways thanks one more time, i cant play affinity again since several people said that they were boarding hate for me next time.

[ESG]

@Tiago_B.: If grave hate isn't played, then Dredge is a great option. Enjoy steamrolling people through the Swiss rounds.

@ Bierbaron: A True-Name Nemesis deck, probably either Patroit or Deathblade. Or maybe an Esper Stoneblade list without True-Name Nemesis but with a Planeswalker plan for Miracles.

Anyone else want to make some recommendations? I feel like I'm leading the advice in this thread, and I know there are lots of better players and metagame crunchers on these boards.

[Windmill]

Thank you for the advice! I'll definitely take that onboard. I was already thinking of a black splash anyway.

[Mammutti]

@ Bierbaron: I would probably go for Team America or Death and Taxes. Both are good against Storm, Reanimator and Show and Tell. And if you know what you're doing the Miracle match ups are quite decent for both as well. DnT tends to do well against Delver decks and with Team America AD is a beast in the mirror(ish) match ups. Hope this helps.

[Fl0do]

Thanks for the advices so far.

I already thought about playing team america or deathblade (or miracles), though I'm maybe one TNN short of playing deathblade (owning 2 atm).

Patriot is not the deck I enjoy to play, unfortunately :S

Is Brimaz considered a mustplay in D&T nowadays?

[JPoJohnson]

Thanks for the advices so far.

I already thought about playing team america or deathblade (or miracles), though I'm maybe one TNN short of playing deathblade (owning 2 atm).

Patriot is not the deck I enjoy to play, unfortunately :S

Is Brimaz considered a mustplay in D&T nowadays?

No he's not. Some play him, others do not. It's similar to playing TNN in BUG or Stoneblade. Some do with success, some don't with success.

[Bongo]

Getting back into Legacy, starting from scratch again. Sadly I'm on a pretty tight budget.

-> Burn or Manaless Dredge?

Or is there any other deck under 200$ that is competitive? If needed I can also shell out 300$.

[Vastros]

Mana less. You will get hated out but it's more fun than burn


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LDX]

I'm looking for a Storm deck, I'm hesitating between ANT and TES.

I prefer the ANT colors, I just generally love blue/black combos. I'm naturally attracted to the deck because of it.

But then, I heard TES is a stricly better deck. I know most of the differences between the two but it seems the power level of TES is just overall superior. Is that true? Should I lean toward this version?

[Matsaya]

At the last tournament (~2 months ago) the metagame was the following :
35 players :
- Jund x7
- Elfes x2
- BUG Delver x2
- Sneak Show x2
- BURG Delver x2
- Reanimator x2
- Burn x2
- Stoneblade x1
- Rock x1
- Eldrazi Ramp x1
- Esperblade x1
- Patriot x1
- Deathblade x1
- Junk Pox x1
- Storm x1
- Junk Depths x1
- Affinity x1
- BUG Cascade x1
- RUG Delver x1
- Miracle x1
- Pox x1
- Merfolks x1
- Oops all spells x1

With 3 jund in the top8.

What should I play, knowing that this time we will be 50 and thus the metagame possibly different.
I really like to play imperial painter or Death&Taxes (both classic and ghost-quarter version), but I'm not sure they will shine in such an environment.
On the other hand, maybe it is a good idea to beat on less Jund this time ...

Thanks

[ORDAL]

Hello, I'm new in the forum and I had never written before now. First of all sorry for my bad English.
Im European Legacy player and i thought about doing this quiz for a little local tournament (around 45/50 people no proxy), because I had no idea which deck to choose and i think can be fun. Looking at the list of pre-registered, (because I know most of the people) we can make a hypothesis about what will be the meta of the tournament.

Each deck has a sign for every person that I believe will pick that deck

O = Very Propable
X = Probable


ANT O

BANT X

BUG DELVER O O X X

BUG SHARDLESS X

BURN X

DEATH AND TAXES O O X

DEATHBLADE O O O

ELVES O O X

GOBLINS X

JUND O X

LANDS X

MERFOLKS O X

MIRACLE O O O X

NIC FIT X

OMNITELL O

PATRIOTS O X

POD X

SNEAK ATTACK O

THOPTERS X X

THRESHOLD RUG O

you can choose most of the decks in the current meta, I will test the deck chosen to week, and next Monday I'll tell you how it went.

Thanks to all

[Megadeus]

Imperial Painter seems strong. Blood Mooning is never bad.

[Matsaya]

Thanks for the advice.

[undone]

Which one is better positioned in the metagame?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

They're fairly different in spite of a lot of the card choices being the same. Delver tends to be a strictly tempo oriented build while Shardless is much more of a midrange deck, boasting a higher creature count and a different way (cascade + visions vs. Small tempo gains in delver) of gaining card and board advantage. I believe that both are acceptable choices, and your success will be based on your playing ability rather than your build. That said, I like Delver better because I feel I have more control of how and where I gain my advantages, whereas a cascade can make or break a game and it's simply based on the luck of the flip. I also dislike visions, because it is much worse as a topdeck than as a cascade hit, and basically becomes a dead draw.

Tl;dr Summary is i prefer BUG Delver.

Edit: I didn't mention it but Shardless BUG tanks to have the better miracles matchup of the two, if that makes any difference.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[wcm8]

Depends on local expecations:

More control and midrange decks -- Shardless BUG
More combo and tempo -- BUG Delver

They are both capable of shoring up poor matchups with the help of the sideboard. Either choice would be fine. In fact, I think these are the best overall decks in Legacy at the moment.

If they get paired against each other, generally Shardless has a slight edge but TA is still easily capable of winning this matchup.

[Megadeus]

Does Shardless play 4 Wastelands? I would play whichever one plays 4 wastelands.

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

Depends on local expecations:

More control and midrange decks -- Shardless BUG
More combo and tempo -- BUG Delver

They are both capable of shoring up poor matchups with the help of the sideboard. Either choice would be fine. In fact, I think these are the best overall decks in Legacy at the moment.

If they get paired against each other, generally Shardless has a slight edge but TA is still easily capable of winning this matchup.

Shardless shits on tempo, decks with daze and spell pierce match up poorly against visions

Shardless is prolly better positioned, it's combo mu is worse but the meddling Mage tech lejay has been advocating is legit (people also do not expect it) and generally beats the same decks you'd want team to beat

[GoblinZ]

Does Shardless play 4 Wastelands? I would play whichever one plays 4 wastelands.

I think usually they play 2-3 wastelands, shardless is much more mana hungry than Team America.

[Tormod]

I run 3 wasteland and 2 tarpit in Shardless

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Shardless shits on tempo, decks with daze and spell pierce match up poorly against visions

Stifle is Canadians friend... ;)

I'm like 40:60 against Shardless BUG. But yeah, we don't have any dedicated ShBUG player in our lgs and I don't play anything else than Thresh for nearly a year. (And yes, I got some previous experiences with the deck.) Knowing what, when and why to do against the deck is quite powerful. Once there will be a player sitting against me that does know the same, I think I'll drop to 3:7. And I play the 2/2/2 SS/SP/FB version, maybe the 8 Bolts would fare better.

Most of my wins against ShBUG were the usual Stifle+Waste openings that left the opponent without (one color of) mana and thus my creatures roamed free for long enough to make his CA not matter. As long as my Delvers may get through, I don't care if he just Shardlessed into AV, esp. If I got Lightning/Forked Bolt for the blocker. Then when my creatures stop to matter, I throw them into the desperate alpha strike and try to finish the dude with any leftover burn. Sometimes it works; a little bit more often it doesn't.

I cannot comment on any other ShBug vs. Tempo matchups, as I don't own any other tempo deck then Thresh Can. But I'd expect that the deck with lots of cheap removal and cheap draw and cheap deathtouch owls will own any tempo pile, no matter the exact color combination.

[Grand Superior]

Depends on local expecations:

More control and midrange decks -- Shardless BUG
More combo and tempo -- BUG Delver

They are both capable of shoring up poor matchups with the help of the sideboard. Either choice would be fine. In fact, I think these are the best overall decks in Legacy at the moment.

If they get paired against each other, generally Shardless has a slight edge but TA is still easily capable of winning this matchup.

This.

Just think of Shardless BUG as a BUG version of Jund and Team America/BUG Delver as a BUG version of Canadian Threshold/RUG Delver. They play out in similar fashion and are good against most of the same matchups as Jund/RUG are, respectively. The main difference is that Shardless BUG is better against combo but is worse against creature strategies than Jund (due to Shardless BUG having counterspells but lacking Punishing Fire) and Team America is better against midrange but is worse against combo than Canadian Threshold (due to Team America having the BG package but lacking the streamlined tempo package that Canadian Threshold has).

Essentially, the BUG colours give each deck a bit more versatility against other decks, but they give up percentage points against the matchups that their respective archetypes typically dominate.

I'd honestly try to get the cards for both. They share most of the expensive cards (BUG duals, BUG fetchlands, Wasteland, Tarmogoyf, Force of Will. Only Jace TMS in Shardless BUG is expensive and unique to one deck) and you can easily switch to one or the other depending on meta expectations.

[infiniteJ]

Miracles, BUG Delver, and Esper Blade are some of the most popular decks. Shardless BUG has a very positive matchup across that range. Shardless has less free wins (like daze wasteland delver, hymn blowouts) and is weaker vs combo than Team America. Your matchups become more polarized (in a good way imo): more byes, more tough matchups (dodge bloodmoon). That said, being in BUG colors means you always stand a fighting chance because of your flexible answers and sideboard.

Team America is more rounded, and is a great deck-I played it for around a year,at GP DC and a few opens to above avg finishes- but the deck is not without flaws. Without lightning bolt, a delver alone will often not get there vs controlling decks. The delver itself is harder to protect without spell pierce, and the dazes you have become dead in the mid late game without stifle. I found trying to protect the delver in TA to be a trap strategy (it was one that worked very well when I used to play RUG). After playing the deck for a long time, and wishing every delver opening was just deathrite instead (and losing because I opened on delver instead of deathrite numerous times) I came to realize that delver was the worst card in the deck. I also found I was slowly upping the number of lillianas. Despite my frustration with it, delver felt necessary because the deck was threat light in the long game.

The obvious answer was to drop delver and with it daze, and switch to shardless bug. I tried the Prosak BUG control list a few times, and it's also a decent choice. I prefer Shardless BUG.

[FortyThree]

Miracles, BUG Delver, and Esper Blade are some of the most popular decks. Shardless BUG has a very positive matchup across that range. Shardless has less free wins (like daze wasteland delver, hymn blowouts) and is weaker vs combo than Team America. Your matchups become more polarized (in a good way imo): more byes, more tough matchups (dodge bloodmoon). That said, being in BUG colors means you always stand a fighting chance because of your flexible answers and sideboard.

Team America is more rounded, and is a great deck-I played it for around a year,at GP DC and a few opens to above avg finishes- but the deck is not without flaws. Without lightning bolt, a delver alone will often not get there vs controlling decks. The delver itself is harder to protect without spell pierce, and the dazes you have become dead in the mid late game without stifle. I found trying to protect the delver in TA to be a trap strategy (it was one that worked very well when I used to play RUG). After playing the deck for a long time, and wishing every delver opening was just deathrite instead (and losing because I opened on delver instead of deathrite numerous times) I came to realize that delver was the worst card in the deck. I also found I was slowly upping the number of lillianas. Despite my frustration with it, delver felt necessary because the deck was threat light in the long game.

The obvious answer was to drop delver and with it daze, and switch to shardless bug. I tried the Prosak BUG control list a few times, and it's also a decent choice. I prefer Shardless BUG.

I have nothing to add about Shardless vs Team America, but I just wanted to let you know that this was a very good and well-thought-out post. Thanks for that!

That is all =)

[Megadeus]

I met a guy at SCG Knoxville who had come to a similar about delver in TA. He ended up dropping delver for TNNs, upped the land count a bit and such, but still played a tempoish shell. Deck seemed solid. At least he crushed me anyway

[btm10]

Miracles, BUG Delver, and Esper Blade are some of the most popular decks. Shardless BUG has a very positive matchup across that range. Shardless has less free wins (like daze wasteland delver, hymn blowouts) and is weaker vs combo than Team America. Your matchups become more polarized (in a good way imo): more byes, more tough matchups (dodge bloodmoon). That said, being in BUG colors means you always stand a fighting chance because of your flexible answers and sideboard.

Team America is more rounded, and is a great deck-I played it for around a year,at GP DC and a few opens to above avg finishes- but the deck is not without flaws. Without lightning bolt, a delver alone will often not get there vs controlling decks. The delver itself is harder to protect without spell pierce, and the dazes you have become dead in the mid late game without stifle. I found trying to protect the delver in TA to be a trap strategy (it was one that worked very well when I used to play RUG). After playing the deck for a long time, and wishing every delver opening was just deathrite instead (and losing because I opened on delver instead of deathrite numerous times) I came to realize that delver was the worst card in the deck. I also found I was slowly upping the number of lillianas. Despite my frustration with it, delver felt necessary because the deck was threat light in the long game.

The obvious answer was to drop delver and with it daze, and switch to shardless bug. I tried the Prosak BUG control list a few times, and it's also a decent choice. I prefer Shardless BUG.

I think this is basically the story. I've also played all three BUG lists, and found that TA/Delver didn't suit my playstyle at all, but came to the opposite conclusion about Shardless vs. BUG Control. If you're into playing and swinging with creatures, Shardless is better than Control, and it has way more blowout matchups because of how absurdly powerful some of its cascades can be. The downside to that is that, as has been pointed out, you sometimes just don't cascade into what you need. The more recent iterations of Shardless seem to have shored that up a little with Sylvan Library, but it's still subject to randomly not getting what it needs. The control list has less in the way of card draw, but it does get to run Spell Pierce and potentially Counterspell so it's got a stronger combo matchup.

[sherko7]

So a couple of months ago I had to sell out my whole Legacy collection due to iRL. Right now, I'm planning on getting back into Legacy with a $2000 budget. Maybe a hundred or two more. So my question is, what's the best deck to get with this budget? My meta is pretty wide, most DTB's can be found as well as a few of the older DTB's. I only play during big tourneys, which normally takes place only once a month.

I want a deck that plays well in a wide open meta. I can play fair and unfair (my older decks include Nic Fit, UWR Delver, RUG and Dredge), but I'd rather not play DnT or Miracles.

Suggestions?:laugh:

[Megadeus]

Deadguy

[Kyle]

My meta regularly consists of:

D&T
Lands (with Dark Depths win-con)
Merfolk
Jund
BUG Delver

And sometimes:

UR Delver
Reanimator
Painter
Big Red (Sneak Attack)
Manaless Dredge
Patriot Delver
Esper Stoneblade with TNN

And I can't seem to break through this meta! An online play buddy of mine recommended I try Belcher, but I just don't like the deck or can't get the hang of it. Suggestions por favor!

[Emo]

My meta regularly consists of:

D&T
Lands (with Dark Depths win-con)
Merfolk
Jund
BUG Delver

And sometimes:

UR Delver
Reanimator
Painter
Big Red (Sneak Attack)
Manaless Dredge
Patriot Delver
Esper Stoneblade with TNN

And I can't seem to break through this meta! An online play buddy of mine recommended I try Belcher, but I just don't like the deck or can't get the hang of it. Suggestions por favor!

Imperial Painter

Lots of removal for Merfolk
and Blood moon effects for Lands, Jund (to some extent) and Bug Delver
I can't really speak for D & T though

[Kyle]

Imperial Painter

Lots of removal for Merfolk
and Blood moon effects for Lands, Jund (to some extent) and Bug Delver
I can't really speak for D & T though

Thanks for the reply Emo. D&T is a tough matchup for Painter due to stuff like Phyrexian Revoker and STP. Also, it's one of the decks I can't build :rolleyes:

[ESG]

@Bongo: Either Burn or Manaless Dredge. I agree with Vastros that Manaless Dredge is the more fun option. At least in my area, Burn would be the more competitive of the two, however. Price of Progress is amazing right now. If graveyard hate is low in your area, then play Manaless and profit.

@LDX: TES and ANT are pretty similar and share a lot of cards. If you build one, you'll be able to shift into the other fairly soon after. My personal opinion is that neither deck is strictly better. They have slightly different strengths and weaknesses. TES is the faster of the two. I'm sure you would get much deeper responses if you PM'd some of the Storm players on these boards or if you posted in the ANT thread and the TES thread.

@Matsaya: There's enough non-blue in that room that Charbelcher might be a good option. Burn doesn't seem too bad a choice either. I also would think Sneak and Show and Turbo Eldrazi would be favored. The viability of graveyard decks would depend on how much graveyard hate people are playing, but those could be good, too. If the meta shifts, then the current information isn't much use and my advice would be to play whatever you feel most experienced and comfortable with.

@ORDAL: Hello, and welcome to The Source. I would run BUG Delver for that field and plan on mirror matches. I also would focus my sideboard on beating Death and Taxes and Miracles.

@sherko7: Any blue-based deck is likely to hold up better over time. The creatures might change, but the majority of the spells will stay the same. Also, in a big tournament, playing blue will afford you more consistency. Blue is also usually well-equipped to play against a wide-open field. I think any Delver or Stoneforge deck would be a fine place to start, and you would be able to shift to a variation later if needed.

@Kyle: Along a similar line as Belcher, you could play around with All Spells. Non-blue decks historically have a lot of trouble beating Turn 1 combo decks. Bant and Big Zoo also seem like they would be decent there (just have a plan for True-Name Nemesis).

[zeus-online]

Moderators: If i have accidentally placed this post in the wrong forum, please move it. Merged to this thread - Jander

Hi,
I more or less quit magic 4 years ago, but i am thinking about playing some legacy this summer. The thing is that while i still have my old collection (I was primarily a vintage player) i lack a lot of legacy staples*.
My preferred deck type is definitely control, but as i said i lack the cards. I am of course willing to pay for some cards, but i do not have infinite funds.

I have considered the following four decks, and would like advice on card choices as well as honest opinions on deck strength, and advice on which investments would be most useful for future legacy play:

UR Delver
Lands: 18
4 Volcanic island
4 Scalding tarn
2 Polluted delta
4 Wasteland
3 Island
1 Mountain

Creatures: 10+
4 Delver of secrets
4 Young pyromancer
2 Grim lavamancer (More than two might be hard to maintain ?)

Spells: 24
4 Force of will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian probe
4 Lightning bolt

One of the main reasons that i am seriously considering this deck is because of the capital investment, i would only require 1 wasteland, 3 scalding tarns and a few commons and uncommons. It also seems to me that this type of aggro control is highly successful in the format.

I am unsure about the last 8 cards, i feel like the deck is a bit short on creatures. I would like a few more counterspells, perhaps even counterspell itself. Other cards i have considered include fire/ice, pyrokinesis, red elemental blast and spell pierce.


WUB aggro control
Lands: 20
4 Polluted delta
4 Flooded strand
3 Underground sea
2 Tundra
5 Island
1 Swamp
1 Plains
(Wasteland is an option, but i am uncertain if it is worth it, as it destabilizes the mana base)

Creatures: 15
4 Delver of secrets
4 Mother of runes
4 Dark confidant
3 Stoneforge mystic

Spells: 25
4 Force of will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Swords to plowshares
1 Jitte
1 Batterskull
3 ??

A bit more controllish, i would need to purchase batterskull, stoneforge mystic and jitte - But i dont know if this deck is viable.


Miracle control:
Lands: 24
4 Flooded strand
4 Polluted delta
2-3 Tundra
2 Plains
1 Academy ruins
8-9 Island

Creatures: 4
2 Vendillion clique
2 Snapcaster mage

Spells: 18
4 Force of will
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to plowshares
4 Terminus
2 Entreat the angels

Other: 12
2 Engineered explosives
2 Jace, the mindsculptor
4 Sensei's top
4 Counterbalance

2 ??

Probably the deck i would have most fun playing, but the problem here is cost: Jace (If money was no issue, i would play 4), 3rd tundra, counterbalance, snapcaster mage, vendillion clique as well as the actual miracle cards. I also wonder if a splash would be worth it - and what splash would be best.

Storm:
This is not very high on my list, from what i gather i would need lion's eye diamond and either burning wish or infernal tutor.
I am also doubtful about how strong these decks are in a format full of aggro control.

I would like honest opinions on the four decks i am considering, are they viable, which one would be strongest. There is also the financial question, and as such i would be more inclined towards playing a cheaper deck if it is equally strong.

/zeus

* Using this site for deck research and understanding of legacy staples and meta-game.
http://www.mtgtop8.com/format?f=LE

[JPoJohnson]

In regards to lists, here are the lists that placed highly in recent tournaments of the archetypes you have listed:



UR Delver
Lands (18)
4 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Arid Mesa
2 Mountain
2 Island

Creatures (14)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer

Spells (28)
4 Force of Will
4 Chain Lightning
4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Ponder
2 Spell Pierce
2 Price of Progress
1 Forked Bolt

Sideboard (15)
1 Price of Progress
2 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Flusterstorm
2 Pyroblast
2 Smelt
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Lava Spike




Stoneblade (WUB Aggro Control as you put it, more commonly referred to as Stoneblade or Deathblade if you splash green for Deathrite Shaman and have a singleton Tropical Island)
Lands (23)
6 Island
4 Flooded Strand
3 Marsh Flats
3 Polluted Delta
2 Tundra
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Scrubland
1 Underground Sea

Creatures (9)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 True-Name Nemesis
2 Snapcaster Mage

Spells (21)
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
3 Flusterstorm
2 Counterspell
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Lingering Souls

Permanent Spells (7)
3 Engineered Explosives
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

Sideboard
3 Swan Song
2 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Rest in Peace
1 Engineered Plague
1 Back to Basics
4 Thoughtseize




Miracles
Lands (22)
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Plains
2 Arid Mesa
2 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
1 Mystic Gate
1 Karakas
1 Mountain
1 Misty Rainforest

Creatures (4)
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Snapcaster Mage

Spells (24)
4 Terminus
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Ponder
2 Counterspell
2 Entreat the Angels
1 Spell Snare
1 Spell Pierce

Permanent Spells (10)
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Counterbalance

Sideboard
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Batterskull
2 Rest in Peace
1 Sulfur Elemental
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Pithing Needle
1 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Wear / Tear




Storm
Lands (15)
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Badlands
1 Swamp
1 Island

Spells (36)
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress
2 Preordain
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Grim Tutor
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony

Permanent Spells (9)
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
1 Sensei's Divining Top

Sideboard
2 Defense Grid
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Karakas
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Massacre
1 Pyroclasm
2 Dark Confidant


Of course these are fairly personalized lists and can be tailored to what you have and don't want to buy, but I think that the spell setup of the miracles here is more towards what I would personally run over what you have listed. The UR Delver list really depends on meta as to the one-two ofs that you run or do not run.

I personally prefer a Grixis Epic Storm list that is currently on the front page of the TES forum here over this list, but they both have their merits.

And in regards to stoneblade, the one listed here has some great game against fair decks and unfair decks with a very flexible control/aggro gameplan that can shift based on what you're up against. I really like the list here.

If you're keen on going with the decklists that you have, I'm more than happy to give advice or feedback in any regard, just wanted to give you a tried-and-true starting point since you're just getting back into the swing of things (:

[zeus-online]

What you said :)

What i usually do when i know little about a format is to gloss over a collection of successful decks and make my own interpretation of the one i settle on playing :)
I am not settled on any particular deck yet, and would like to figure out which deck i want to play before committing more time to producing a deck list. Which deck would you choose? and do you consider all four decks equally likely to win in a varied field? (I do not know what the local meta game is at this point)

[JPoJohnson]

What i usually do when i know little about a format is to gloss over a collection of successful decks and make my own interpretation of the one i settle on playing :)
I am not settled on any particular deck yet, and would like to figure out which deck i want to play before committing more time to producing a deck list. Which deck would you choose? and do you consider all four decks equally likely to win in a varied field? (I do not know what the local meta game is at this point)

Sure, that's fair enough. I'm going to respond to the decklists that I posted so you get a better feel for the archetypes. If I may be blunt though, I really do not care for the WUB Aggro-Control list you posted. It's going two different directions and doesn't have as much synergy in either the control or the aggro direction to do well against the wide field you may encounter. *Personal Opinion*

In regards to the decklists that you posted:

1. UR Delver - A very aggressive deck compared to other decks that run blue. It has the control aspects to slow/disrupt the opponent's gameplan enough to steal many wins. It's almost always on the aggressive and if the opponent's deck stabalizes or breaks away there is almost no coming back. Fortunately, that's where the disruptive gameplan comes into play and makes it so that this occurs very little. If you like aggressive decks, this is the one out of the four for you.

2. Stoneblade - This is a very interesting deck that has been a legacy top rated deck for years. It's split between control and aggro has almost been perfected at this point so that it has game against any type of deck that you may find yourself playing against. It has the pressure necessary to keep combo decks on a clock while keeping them locked down. It has enough control aspects to keep the field open for their aggro plan, and their aggro plan is backed up by a very specific choice of spells that makes it hard to disrupt. The addition of True-Name Nemesis has made the Stoneforge Mystic package that this deck typically packs very powerful as well as neigh unbreakable by many fair decks out there. If you want a deck that the playstyle can be shifted depending on what you're playing against and has game against almost anything you'll find yourself against (but requires tight play and makes the matchup% much closer with no blowout-matchups), then this is the one you'd want out of the four.

3. Miracles - The true control deck of the format. This deck requires massive amounts of skill as well as knowledge about the format as a whole. On T1/T2 you need to already have an idea of what you're up against and what you need to do in order to overcome it as these first few turns can be devastating. One slip up from this deck ends in a loss when you could have had a win in the end. Each game is a grind and in longer tournaments can be extremely mentally taxing. It has pretty decent matchups around the board, but you will fight and grind for every win you get. The best miracles players will almost always do well at tournaments, but it took them a while to get to the skill level in order to do so. If you're willing to invest the time to learn a deck and master the format, there are few decks that will reward you more than miracles.

4. Storm - This deck has been around since scourge and is going nowhere soon. It has a lot of hate that will simply destroy beginning pilots, but you will wipe the floor with unexpecting opponents just as often, if not even more often. This deck is fluid, it has lines of play that make it adapt to the current matchup you're against and allows no single piece of hate to blow you out. It's resilient, it has cards that can fill its hand once emptied as well as play everything from the graveyard, or have a wishboard so that you can play exactly what you need. Similar to miracles, tight play is rewarded with wins out of nowhere or comebacks that no one saw coming. It's power is something that NO one ignores and the deck is more fine tuned than ever with so many minds coming together to work on it. If you want a deck that's explosive, but resilient and is feared by almost anyone that doesn't play it, this is the deck for you.


Each deck has it's own pros and cons. You will find that as long as you pick up a playstyle that you like that each of the four decks you have listed can be very rewarding and enjoyable to play time and time again. Each of the decks can be tweaked to their own playstyle, the meta, or as new cards come out without disruption to their primary gameplan. Each is fluid and all are great choices.

[vhirvela]

I see Imperial painter mentioned many times in this thread.
If you want to attack your meta and people are playing a lot of top tear decks (means a lot of fetches and duals!) you really can go no wrong.
If you want a budget version. Try playing without recruiters. I think the sol lands are the key and (mana monkeys!) you just get the blood moon on turn 1 out! (or magus of the moon) and kinda hope it lasts until you can dig up the combo.
then its easy to improve into a very deadly deck if you decide to buy the rectruters based on your experience. I think those sol lands can also be used in for example show and tell type decks if you decide to go that way instead.

[Dragonslayer_90]

So I didn't know where to ask this but this seemed like the perfect forum for my question: This weekend (for the legacy open specifically, not the invitational) I'm playing either Shardless or Team America since I have the most experience with each deck. What do you guys think is better positioned at the moment? I think I'm leaning towards shardless since I haven't had too much success with Team lately. The only thing I'm worried about in running shardless is an influx of Sneak and Show this weekend with Todd Anderson and other scg folk pushing that deck real hard. If this is something to genuinely be afraid it I think it would be better to play Team I think since it has a better matchup against sneak and show while still being at least decent against most fair decks.

[btm10]

Of the two decks you named, I think Shardless is better positioned. It supports basic lands better, it has a better Miracles matchup, and is probably equally good against Sneak and Show. Honestly, between Sneak and 12 Post, I wouldn't show up with fewer than 2 Diabolic Edicts in the 75. I think you heard my arguments for them on the way down to Cincinnati. I'm not sure if I'd run Shardless or BUG Control in Columbus (I can't make it this time), but they're probably the two best positioned decks in the format right now, and which you pick has a lot to do with how much Storm combo you expect. Drew Levin's article today made the case for running sweepers in control lists, and while I wouldn't run the 4 color control deck he recommends, but my BUG control sideboard currently has 2 Deluge, 2 Deed, and I'm running 72 of Lejay's 75 in Shardless, with the white splash in the board. Meddling Mage is the real deal in that deck.

[Kyle]

@Kyle: Along a similar line as Belcher, you could play around with All Spells. Non-blue decks historically have a lot of trouble beating Turn 1 combo decks. Bant and Big Zoo also seem like they would be decent there (just have a plan for True-Name Nemesis).

Thanks @ESG for the feedback.

[ethebubbeth]

Given this Top 8: http://azmagicplayers.tumblr.com/post/87552021814/azmagicplayers-com-2014-legacy-series-may-event-top-8
And this overall meta: http://azmagicplayers.tumblr.com/post/87542531514/azmagicplayers-com-2014-legacy-series-may-event

What should I run at the next event?
1.) Out of the following that I currently have built: RUG Delver, Reanimator, Goblins, Elves, Enchantress
2.) Out of the entire legacy meta should I decide to build something new

I'm rusty and haven't played in a while, but my decks have been brought to current meta builds. Any suggested splashes/variants are welcome as well.

Thanks in advance!

[afb0032]

My wife and I will be attending the upcoming Eternal Weekend in October and she is considering playing. She has limited experience outside of some standard, but tends to prefer aggressive decks or ones that win with attacking creatures (she liked playing boros cards from RTR block). She would not do well with a deck with a lot of triggers or counterspells. Money/card staples are not an issue. I am looking for suggestions on decks that would fit her playstyle and allow her to at least have chance to have fun and not get annihilated.

[ethebubbeth]

My wife and I will be attending the upcoming Eternal Weekend in October and she is considering playing. She has limited experience outside of some standard, but tends to prefer aggressive decks or ones that win with attacking creatures (she liked playing boros cards from RTR block). She would not do well with a deck with a lot of triggers or counterspells. Money/card staples are not an issue. I am looking for suggestions on decks that would fit her playstyle and allow her to at least have chance to have fun and not get annihilated.

You could add green to boros and make it naya zoo. It should play pretty much the same as the archetype she's used to from standard just with fat green creatures added to the mix. The other hyper aggressive creature option is G/U infect but that does include counter magic and tricks, making a bit more combo-ish. Elves would rely on too many triggers. Goblins could be another aggressive creature-based deck as well.

[JPoJohnson]

Given this Top 8: http://azmagicplayers.tumblr.com/post/87552021814/azmagicplayers-com-2014-legacy-series-may-event-top-8
And this overall meta: http://azmagicplayers.tumblr.com/post/87542531514/azmagicplayers-com-2014-legacy-series-may-event

What should I run at the next event?
1.) Out of the following that I currently have built: RUG Delver, Reanimator, Goblins, Elves, Enchantress
2.) Out of the entire legacy meta should I decide to build something new

I'm rusty and haven't played in a while, but my decks have been brought to current meta builds. Any suggested splashes/variants are welcome as well.

Thanks in advance!

Just noticed you had decks listed. I like RUG Delver. Decent aggro match ups, removal for the top aggro contenders and plenty of counter spells for the plethora of combo I see in the higher numbers listed.


My wife and I will be attending the upcoming Eternal Weekend in October and she is considering playing. She has limited experience outside of some standard, but tends to prefer aggressive decks or ones that win with attacking creatures (she liked playing boros cards from RTR block). She would not do well with a deck with a lot of triggers or counterspells. Money/card staples are not an issue. I am looking for suggestions on decks that would fit her playstyle and allow her to at least have chance to have fun and not get annihilated.

Maverick feels like a good fit for what you're describing. BUG Delver has counter spells, but really not many so that could also be an option?

[janluis1]

Given this Top 8: http://azmagicplayers.tumblr.com/post/87552021814/azmagicplayers-com-2014-legacy-series-may-event-top-8
And this overall meta: http://azmagicplayers.tumblr.com/post/87542531514/azmagicplayers-com-2014-legacy-series-may-event

What should I run at the next event?
1.) Out of the following that I currently have built: RUG Delver, Reanimator, Goblins, Elves, Enchantress
2.) Out of the entire legacy meta should I decide to build something new

I'm rusty and haven't played in a while, but my decks have been brought to current meta builds. Any suggested splashes/variants are welcome as well.

Thanks in advance!

Uwr delver 100% has favourable and evenish matchups along the last top8 and has just 2 bad matchups in the meta breakdown(Imperial Painter)

UWR delver is very strong against combo and burn evenish against other delver decks (rug slightly favourable bug slightly unfavourable) deathblade, maverick and death and taxes. decently positioned against miracles(TNN) and has very bad matchups against Painter, Pox , Jund(still winnable with a bad draw on their side). I would bring Uwr for sure with this meta

[Tibmag]

Hi everyone, I'm going to a monthly event tomorrow and I'm unsure what to play I have attended the last 2 and came 9th and 8th, with r/w painter and burning reanimator respectively. It's a very varied meta, for instance the first event I faced dredge, dead guy, punishing fit and rug delver. The second event was Ant, death blade, traditional reanimator, death and taxes and planeswalkers bug fit. I have access to most staples so can take along anything but show and tell. Any suggestions would help before I fall back on painter.

[janluis1]

Hi everyone, I'm going to a monthly event tomorrow and I'm unsure what to play I have attended the last 2 and came 9th and 8th, with r/w painter and burning reanimator respectively. It's a very varied meta, for instance the first event I faced dredge, dead guy, punishing fit and rug delver. The second event was Ant, death blade, traditional reanimator, death and taxes and planeswalkers bug fit. I have access to most staples so can take along anything but show and tell. Any suggestions would help before I fall back on painter.

If that meta is not infested with miracles(mirror matches have risk of draw finish) or show and tell(the only tier 1 slightly unfavourable matchup) play UWR MIRACLES 100 %. Best deck in the format Period!

[afb0032]

Just noticed you had decks listed. I like RUG Delver. Decent aggro match ups, removal for the top aggro contenders and plenty of counter spells for the plethora of combo I see in the higher numbers listed.



Maverick feels like a good fit for what you're describing. BUG Delver has counter spells, but really not many so that could also be an option?

Thank you for the suggestion. After looking into it, I believe Junk or Maverick is exactly what would fit the bill.

[Barook]

What are the best FoW decks to punish T1 glass cannon combo douchebaggery like Belcher or Oops, All Spells!?

Edit: The cheaper, the better! (MODO prices)

[Einherjer]

RUG and Miracles.

Greetings

[Barook]

Thanks for the answer.

Sadly, this aren't exactly cards I'm willing to invest into right now.

What I'm looking for is a deck that extremely punishes those glass cannon decks and only those since I know against whom I'm playing in 2-man queue. But I guess that's more a task for the development forum.

[Einherjer]

If its only for Belcher/Oops I'd go with a deck including this things:
Force of Will + Daze
Chalice of the Void + Ancient Tomb/City of Traitors
Trinisphere + Ancient Tomb/City of Traitors
Chalice of the Void + Flusterstorm
and Loadstone Golem, EE, Grafdiggers Cage and stuff.
Maybe you need Lotus Petal too. Then I can't imagine you losing to this kind of deck unless you mull to 3. And yes, this dissynergies are bearable due to the single-targeted nature of the deck.

I am sure you can build a pile that cannot lose agains this deck-type only.

Greetings

[Nuke is Good]

I have the following decks built:

Punishing Jund
Reanimator
TES
Belcher
Dutch Stax
Mono Red Burn

I want to use these in a SCG Open and possibly at the LGS level. Which deck would be the best in an unknown meta? I'm still not good at the storm decks yet.

[Dragonslayer_90]

I have the following decks built:

Punishing Jund
Reanimator
TES
Belcher
Dutch Stax
Mono Red Burn

I want to use these in a SCG Open and possibly at the LGS level. Which deck would be the best in an unknown meta? I'm still not good at the storm decks yet.

For an open probably Jund and then Reanimator. The general metagame is overwhelmingly fair right now so Jund seems like a decent choice at least. After that Reanimator is probably next best choice having a good balance of consistency and power. If you don't know the meta at your local game store I would probably go with Reanimator since it's a very powerful proactive strategy. At least until you get a feel for the meta at your LGS unless you know right away that your LGS is hostile to it.

[Megadeus]

I'm opposite. I'd take reanimator in an SCG and Jund locally

[ShiftyKapree]

I honestly think for unknown meta right now the deck I would play is RUG Delver or DNT. These two decks are solid choices, grant it they're not easy to play but if you are somewhat of a skilled player you can pilot them. I would say DNT is a bit harder to play with all the triggers, but for hands to keep Rug delver is harder.

[Scott]

I'm trying to build decks I like, with each having good match-ups against different strategies, so I can mix it up/choose based on meta shifts. Archetypes can be grouped together in different ways, but one grouping that I don't have positive match-ups against with any of the decks I have is aggro like Goblins, Burn, Merfolk, Maverick, and Affinity. Combo would work, but I'm interested in other options, no matter how fringe. Some builds of Enchantress, for example, do really well against the majority of that grouping. Any other suggestions?

[Wordslinger]

I have enchantress to for known metas, but what should i build for an unknown one? I have a lot of the common and uncommon staples, but other than that only a playset of forces and an city of traitors.

Is there a storm combo list that plays force of will?

[kusumoto]

I have enchantress to for known metas, but what should i build for an unknown one? I have a lot of the common and uncommon staples, but other than that only a playset of forces and an city of traitors.

Is there a storm combo list that plays force of will?

Spiral Tide

[ORDAL]

Hello, I wanted some advice on which deck lead to a tournament that will take place in September. The tournament will have around 250 players and will be in europe. I have a doubt about which deck to choose: Sneak and show, Shardless Bom version or Team america like this (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=14351&iddeck=105861, with bobs stifle and nemesi). Btw i can build all other legacy deck.

I look forward suggestions thanks.

[AggroControl]

I'm opposite. I'd take reanimator in an SCG and Jund locally

That's how I'd do it also. Jund can be very inconsistent over a bunch of rounds. Not enough land and no card selection/advantage until turn 3 at the earliest.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I'm trying to build decks I like, with each having good match-ups against different strategies, so I can mix it up/choose based on meta shifts. Archetypes can be grouped together in different ways, but one grouping that I don't have positive match-ups against with any of the decks I have is aggro like Goblins, Burn, Merfolk, Maverick, and Affinity. Combo would work, but I'm interested in other options, no matter how fringe. Some builds of Enchantress, for example, do really well against the majority of that grouping. Any other suggestions?

Why you no like UWr Miracles? :smile:
Maybe it's not the most origina lidea ever, but there's a reason why this deck is in DTB section. Speaking of aggro, you may go as far as maindeck Pyroclasm, and with the many counterspells, and the CB/Top lock, you're far from cold to combo. Control mirros might be tricky, and it's about who's the better player. But you're good, aren't you? At least that's my mindset ("Im the bst and better not cross my path") and that's why I always end at least... ahem, 0:2 drop. :tongue:

[Scott]

Why you no like UWr Miracles? :smile:
Maybe it's not the most origina lidea ever, but there's a reason why this deck is in DTB section. Speaking of aggro, you may go as far as maindeck Pyroclasm, and with the many counterspells, and the CB/Top lock, you're far from cold to combo. Control mirros might be tricky, and it's about who's the better player. But you're good, aren't you? At least that's my mindset ("Im the bst and better not cross my path") and that's why I always end at least... ahem, 0:2 drop. :tongue:

Haha, I have this great fear that if I picked up Miracles, one day I'd be on camera, commit some major Top/Miracle/fetch/BS sequencing gaffe and be net vilified. I'm gonna jam awesome Enchantress. It sometimes has too many decision trees for my brain, but at least when I do something, no one else will have any idea what's going on. Now I just need something for multicolor goodstuff decks, assuming I'm right that I don't want to play Burn, Blood Moon, City of Traitors, or Nic Fit.

[Collman]

I've been playing Dead Guy Ale for a while now and I'd like to start playing Brainstorm now.
I recently bought a playset of FoWs to that end, and I have all the Zendikar fetchs except Misty plus Flooded Strands, Snaps and Cliques from Modern. I have Lilis, Bobs, SFMs and wastelands from DGA too. Importantly, I don't have access to goyfs and I'd rather not buy those since getting the blue duals will take some time already.

My meta is pretty diverse, with Dredge, some Sneak and Show variants, BUG Delver, Reanimator, dark maverick and some Punishing Jund all being present. I haven't seen as much RUG nor Storm decks but there are some players still.

I've been looking at 2 color decks since getting enough blue duals for 3 colors will take a long time and I'd like to be able to play a deck before that. Ideally I'd like the deck to be playable with 3 blue duals.

I tried UW Stoneblade, and I somewhat liked the deck although the lack of a good T1 play seemed awkward often, which I guess is why everyone is playing Esper Deathblade instead (I actually don't like Deathblade at all).

I've tried Miracles before building Dead Guy Ale and I liked the deck. Tried it again some more (both the Losset version and the 4 Ponder version that most people here seem to be playing, which I preferred), and the deck still seems fun. I've playing UWR in modern for a few years now and this feels like getting a Ferrari after driving a bicycle all your life in terms of raw power. It's expensive though, since it plays both Tundras, Volcs and Jaces.

I've also tried UR Delver before building DGA and didn't liked it too much since it felt too much like burn. Lately I've been trying a more tempo focused build and enjoyed it, but I get the feeling that it's just a bad version of RUG and that's not what I want. I've also tried Bob Huangs list, which feels very powerful really and quite fun, but maybe still too heavy on the aggro side for me.

I like the idea of playing Delver since I'd like to be proactive but the tempo lists I've tried haven't felt that great. The deck is on the cheap side compared to the others since it doesn't play Jace, plus getting the volcs would mean I'm closer to something like Miracles, but I wouldn't want to be playing a bad version of another deck (RUG) for that long. Maybe with Treasure Cruise in the format there's a way to make a tempo UR list that has a identity of it's own, but I haven't seen that yet.

These are all the things I've tried since I haven't found other 2 color / almost 2 color blue decks.

I guess I'm mostly asking if there are more decks I should try or something I'm missing from the ones I've tried, and if UR Delver would be a good place to start playing brainstorm.

Sorry for the long post!

[wizard_of_gore]

Hi everyone!

In an unknown/diverse meta, what is the better choice - punishing maverick (with nobles) or punishing jund? There will be tournament soon in near city and i don't know what to expect. My teammates going to play ur delvers, miracles, dredge, and this is all my knowledge about metagame..

help ?

[Brentane]

I'm aiming to fully complete 3 competitive Legacy deck. My choices are Combo Elves (aggro/combo), Death & Taxes (aggro/control, and a combo/control deck. For the combo/control deck I'm finding it difficult to choose. I keep going back and forth on Reanimator and Sneak & Show. I have Reanimator completed but I was curious and tried Sneak & Show and I like how it works. I am struggling at which deck should be my competitive combo/control deck. This is what I see in these decks that keeps pushing and pulling me between them.

Reanimator Pros:
- I love Reanimator's toolbox-like lock-out/control package.
- Griselbrand, Iona, Empyrial Archangel, and Elesh Norn are really sweet creatures.
- Maindecks discard.
- Can search for it's combo easily with Entomb.
- Doesn't fold to discard easily.

Reanimator Cons:
- Graveyard hate is in every sideboard, sometimes even maindecked.
- Runs 6-8 counterspells in total.

Sneak & Show Pros:
- Emrakul...just cheating the biggest and baddest creature in magic on the field is a great feeling.
- The "ONE-TWO-PUNCH" is fun to pull off (Sneak Attack a Griselbrand in and draw cards for a Lotus Petal and Emrakul and KO).
- Runs a lot of maindecked counterspells (10+)
- Pyroclasm
- Leyline of Sanctity

Sneak & Show Cons:
- Sometimes you just can't find your combo pieces.
- Weak against Karakas.

[Quasim0ff]

I've tried Miracles before building Dead Guy Ale and I liked the deck. Tried it again some more (both the Losset version and the 4 Ponder version that most people here seem to be playing, which I preferred), and the deck still seems fun. I've playing UWR in modern for a few years now and this feels like getting a Ferrari after driving a bicycle all your life in terms of raw power. It's expensive though, since it plays both Tundras, Volcs and Jaces.

Actually, you can play a manabase consisting of 2 tundra, 1 volcanic, 10 fetches and rest basics without it being a struggle in miracles. I actually think Lossett play a similar manabase, but with Karakas (Which I'm actually not sure, if DGA plays.)

[ESG]

@ wizard_of_gore: If you're going in blind, neither deck is better. Play whichever one you have access to and have more experience with. Sideboard against what you know is guaranteed to be there, and then adjust for next time, when you know what the field is like in that area.


@ Brentane: Proxy both of those decks and test them against your friends or people at your local store(s). See which one you like better. As you've noted, each has pros and cons, but what you spend your money on is really up to you. The nice thing is that the decks share pieces, so you may end up deciding on one and then filling in the missing pieces to the other next year.

[wizard_of_gore]

@ wizard_of_gore: If you're going in blind, neither deck is better. Play whichever one you have access to and have more experience with. Sideboard against what you know is guaranteed to be there, and then adjust for next time, when you know what the field is like in that area.

Thank you very much, i already played at tournament, almost to the top. finished second with punishing jund. I was playing against 3 delvers deck (2x uwr, 1x bug), gbw nic fit, dredge and miracles. Jund is still strong.

[ESG]

Thank you very much, i already played at tournament, almost to the top. finished second with punishing jund. I was playing against 3 delvers deck (2x uwr, 1x bug), gbw nic fit, dredge and miracles. Jund is still strong.

Cool. You clearly made the right decision for that event. Congrats.

[negativeview]

I think I've already decided which deck I want to play, based on preferences, but after seeing this thread, I'm curious what the "best" deck would be.

Below is the number of times I've seen an archetype in a top-8 position in the last two or so months. Names come from the deck author themselves and I can't provide clarification in most cases:

4
UR Delver
Lands
Omni-Tell

2
Burn
BW Death and Taxes
Deathblade
Reanimator

1
Enchantress
BUG Pod Nic Fit
BUG Control
Dredge
Flamespeaker Stompy
Painted Stone
Death and Taxes
Stoneblade
MUD
Punishing Jund
Goblin Stompy
Goblins
BUG Delver
Shardless BUG
Storm
Loam Pox
Spirit Weiners (I have no idea)
RUG Delver

[Paranoid__Android]

Hello guys!

I have a little problem with choosing the right deck for my metagame. I'm always playing decks in white, black & green colors like Junk, Maverick, Deadguy Ale, Pox, etc, and I based my collection on buying cards for that colors. Metagame is this:

2x Merfolks <-can't beat them at all
1x Dredge
1x R/W Burn Aggro
1x Belcher
1x Jund <- can't beat at all
1x U/W Countertop
1x Reanimator
1x Tin Fins
1x Oops! All Spells
1x G/B Infect
1x Death without Taxes (no Ports, Wastes, Karakas)
1x Maverick
1x Affinity
and some budget random decks.

So, the question is, which deck will be best to play against this meta? In those three colors (or less). :D

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Hello guys!

I have a little problem with choosing the right deck for my metagame. I'm always playing decks in white, black & green colors like Junk, Maverick, Deadguy Ale, Pox, etc, and I based my collection on buying cards for that colors. Metagame is this:

2x Merfolks <-can't beat them at all
1x Dredge
1x R/W Burn Aggro
1x Belcher
1x Jund <- can't beat at all
1x U/W Countertop
1x Reanimator
1x Tin Fins
1x Oops! All Spells
1x G/B Infect
1x Death without Taxes (no Ports, Wastes, Karakas)
1x Maverick
1x Affinity
and some budget random decks.

So, the question is, which deck will be best to play against this meta? In those three colors (or less). :D

Junk Nic Fit will shore up your Jund and Merfolk matchups at the cost of your combo matchups. Having said that, four of the combo decks are graveyard based so Surgical Extraction, Deathrite Shaman, and especially Containment Priest will treat ya good from the side board.

Only deck Id be super concerned about would be Belcher, and that is to the point to where I suggest not devoting much space at all for it.

[Paranoid__Android]

Junk Nic Fit will shore up your Jund and Merfolk matchups at the cost of your combo matchups. Having said that, four of the combo decks are graveyard based so Surgical Extraction, Deathrite Shaman, and especially Containment Priest will treat ya good from the side board.

Only deck Id be super concerned about would be Belcher, and that is to the point to where I suggest not devoting much space at all for it.

Hmm...I've tested G/B against Merfolks and almost always won 2:0, but Jund is a tough one. He always beats me 2:0. I think that against combo decks, sideboard is the main weapon. And a few maindeck things, like Sc. Ooze, D. Shaman, and some discard. Should I add the white in it or not? I've tested some games with GWB Nic Fit, but was very slow against some of those decks.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Hmm...I've tested G/B against Merfolks and almost always won 2:0, but Jund is a tough one. He always beats me 2:0. I think that against combo decks, sideboard is the main weapon. And a few maindeck things, like Sc. Ooze, D. Shaman, and some discard. Should I add the white in it or not? I've tested some games with GWB Nic Fit, but was very slow against some of those decks.

You get more efficient removal with white, as well as two valuable cards against combo: Containment Priest and Gaddock Teeg. My recommendation of the deck is too slow is to swap deed out for deluges.

[Paranoid__Android]

You get more efficient removal with white, as well as two valuable cards against combo: Containment Priest and Gaddock Teeg. My recommendation of the deck is too slow is to swap deed out for deluges.

Containment Priest ability works on Merfolks too? Vial is a dead card then, and Mutavaults, right?

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Containment Priest ability works on Merfolks too? Vial is a dead card then, and Mutavaults, right?

Vial yes, Mutavault no. It also doesnt work on Empty the Warrens or Bloodbraid Elf. Keep in mind though that Priest also messes with GSZ.

[Gruby]

Hello. I'm big fan of distrupting :) Always mostly played decks in BGx shell heavily discarding and destroying howeaver since printing pernicious deed. For few years I have junkblade and it's my favored deck, now I want to have another deck that doesn't match cards with junkblade. This will be kind of a long time investment so decks which can start from kind of budget way till competitive are cool.
-I have almost completed merfolk, UR delver, and have a lot of green zenith targets (no FoW nor duals)
-I'm fan of midrange/aggro-control and decks that are 50/50 and need skills
-Deck should be cool for random/unknown meta
-Hate playing Cabal therapy ;)
-Would be nice if deck fit in mono U or UR

[Drizzy]

What would you recommend for local meta that consists of unusually high amount of fast combo and pox decks? Blue based decks are good against combo but at least delver decks are pretty much lacking against pox. I've been running Sneak & Show in few tournaments and doing decently against most of the field, but is there a better deck to combat against pox?

[Alix444]

Hello everyone,

I just found this forum and am glad I did!

I have been slowly building RUG Delver and have finally been able to playtest it. I recently stumbled upon the bUrg tempo deck that I equally fell in love with. I am having such a hard time deciding between the two decks and I basically don't have the financial means to keep both. I know my question is very arbitrary in nature, but does anyone have any wise words or experience?

For reference I have:
4 Goyfs
3 Tropical Islands
2 Volcanic Islands
4 Wastelands
4 Force of Will

So to finish RUG I would need a volcanic island, but to finish bury tempo I would need to trade 2 goyfs and a tropical to get 2 underground seas.

Help!

[btm10]

Finish RUG. It's a deck with a high floor even when it's not well positioned, and when it's good it's great. BUrG is a really powerful tempo deck, but its manabase is a disaster (the only worse manabase is Deathblade's), and you'd need to part with flexible staples to finish building it. Buy your last Volc and play RUG. If you do well with it, you may win enough to pick up the Seas eventually.

[iPhone7]

So I need some help. I used to be a UR Delver player, but I don't think the deck will be good enough now without TC. I have a couple of legacy tournaments this weekend and I'm trying a Dig version, but I'm not hopeful. So now I need a new deck. This is a crossroads of sorts because I have it down to Sneak & Show and Jeskai Stoneblade. Combo v Midrange. I like the idea of Sneak & Show because of the brute force of the combo plus the ability to play the control role with your counters. However, I can see myself cursing the deck when I am holding 3 fatties but never draw the facilitator and die to burn or something. Jeskai Stoneblade seems like a bit of an unknown entity at this point since switching from TC to Dig might or might not be a big deal. That said, it seems to be a consistent deck with powerful threats and few truly bad matchups. My current cards are just the cards that were in UR Delver (4 Force, 3 Volc, and blue fetches). I don't really have a type of deck that I usually like to play and I'm more interested in finding a deck that is good. What do you all recommend based on a normal SCG Open metagame? Thanks!

[Paranoid__Android]

Well, my metagame changed a little bit, but my Nic Fit didn't worked out very well. Metagame is now: 2x Merfolk, 1x Dredge, 1x Burn, 1x MonoU tempo, 1x UWR Stoneblade, and 1x WRB Stoneblade. I was planning on building a Death and Taxes deck, but I don't know is it a good idea.

[Quasim0ff]

Well, my metagame changed a little bit, but my Nic Fit didn't worked out very well. Metagame is now: 2x Merfolk, 1x Dredge, 1x Burn, 1x MonoU tempo, 1x UWR Stoneblade, and 1x WRB Stoneblade. I was planning on building a Death and Taxes deck, but I don't know is it a good idea.

That does look like an almost ideal metagame for Nic Fit though?

[jmlima]

Maybe someone can help, got a question from someone over here today and could not really provide an answer.

What are the best / most competitive decks in a meta circling around Miracles / ANT-TES / Delver variants , that does not require the big staples (ie, Lilianas, Tarmogoyfs, Wasteland-Ports, Force of Will) ?

Thanks. (I was kind of stuck beyond Elves / Burn / Drege... because this is for MTGO, Elves is quite cheaper than in cardboard.)

[Deckerator]

I played at a small local tournament last month. I played Sneak&Show.
Now i wanna play a more "fair"deck. Hope you can give me some advices.

My meta is the followin:
Merfolk, MUD, Elves, Death&Taxes, Stiflenought, Reanimator, Burn, Miracles, RUB Aggro with YP and Swiftspear (Like RUG just instead ofGreen he uses black for discard and Tasigur), BUG Delver

Hope you can help me to find the right choice :-)

[LarsLeif]

I played at a small local tournament last month. I played Sneak&Show.
Now i wanna play a more "fair"deck. Hope you can give me some advices.

My meta is the followin:
Merfolk, MUD, Elves, Death&Taxes, Stiflenought, Reanimator, Burn, Miracles, RUB Aggro with YP and Swiftspear (Like RUG just instead ofGreen he uses black for discard and Tasigur), BUG Delver

Hope you can help me to find the right choice :-)

It's seems to be quite a fair meta with only a single combo deck (not counting stiflenought) so a deck that prays on fair decks is probably the way to go. Either Jund, Shardless or miracles would probably be pretty favoured.

[Deckerator]

Do you think BUG Delver (Team America) has a chance? I think Shardless a bit to controlish for me.
Or Maverick? But thanks for the idea of Jund. Sounds interesting :)

[the_smoking_man]

I've been playing d&t and rw imperial painter for and a while and now I'm kinda board with both decks. What would be a good deck to build? I have fetches waste lands fow stuff like that.

[death]

Smells like fish to me (merfolks).

You can trade your fetches for Cavern of Souls set.
Mutavault has been reprinted so it's dirt cheap now.

[jrw1985]

I've been playing d&t and rw imperial painter for and a while and now I'm kinda board with both decks. What would be a good deck to build? I have fetches waste lands fow stuff like that.

Miracles has been a top performer consistently. As had RUG Delver. If you're looking to put a deck together that will be competitive for a long time you should try one of those.

[death]

Miracles is the worst deck, ever.

[Bobmans]

I've been playing d&t and rw imperial painter for and a while and now I'm kinda board with both decks. What would be a good deck to build? I have fetches waste lands fow stuff like that.
So you have FoWs, fetches and wastelands and you play dnt. Sounds like UWx Stoneblade. Merfolk would be boring i think. As you play dnt you know that MU is grindy. But so is any MU for Miracles. You love or hate it...

[Quasim0ff]

Miracles is the worst deck, ever.
miracles is insanely fun to play.

[Fl0do]

I'm attending a tournament this Weekend, expecting a metagame with a good amount of Combo, Delver and some Stoneblade-Decks. The last Top 8 was Nic Fit, Infect, Omni Tell, Elves, 2 Deathblade, 2 Sultai Delver. I'm currently testing Dark Maverick, Rw Painter and Tezzeret, but wonder if they fit for the expected metagame.

[Windmill]

Hi guys. I'm trying to decide between U/R Delver or Omnitell. I play Merfolk and would like to upgrade. I have $1,000 to put towards a new deck. I am a casual player: I practice here-there but don't have the time to spend hours each week practising. Would like a deck with easy to moderate difficulty level, not like DnT or Miracles.

Here are the decks I can expect to face locally a lot:
BUG Delver
Burn
Affinity
Deathblade
MUD
Miracles
Reanimator
Maverick
Lands
The most common are the top 4: BUG, Burn, Affinity and Deathblade. We have others in the mix time-to-time: Elves, goblins, belcher, RUG etc.

[Deckerator]

Hey i played a lot of BUG Delver over the last few month. Now i wanna start something new.

My meta consists of
1x Elves
1-2x Reanimator
1x ANT
1-2x Merfolk
1x Dredge
1x Punishing-Jund
1x BUG Delver
2-3x Miracles
1x Omniscience

Hope you can help me to find a deck that performs well in this meta.
Thanks for your ideas.

[kuroko16]

Hey i played a lot of BUG Delver over the last few month. Now i wanna start something new.

My meta consists of
1x Elves
1-2x Reanimator
1x ANT
1-2x Merfolk
1x Dredge
1x Punishing-Jund
1x BUG Delver
2-3x Miracles
1x Omniscience

Hope you can help me to find a deck that performs well in this meta.
Thanks for your ideas.


Depends today with ban list update :smile:

[Deckerator]

Depends today with ban list update :smile:


There are no changes like i thought. So what can you advise to me? :wink:

[LDX]

Quick question. My meta is:

Burn
Elves!
Deadguy Ale (BWg)
The Gate
Pox
Manaless Dredge
Affinity
Death & Taxes

That's it. No blue decks. No Brainstorm. What would be the easiest way to win in such a meta? There's no blue decks, but the hatebears are real.

[sjmcc13]

Quick question. My meta is:

Burn
Elves!
Deadguy Ale (BWg)
The Gate
Pox
Manaless Dredge
Affinity
Death & Taxes

That's it. No blue decks. No Brainstorm. What would be the easiest way to win in such a meta? There's no blue decks, but the hatebears are real.
I am so tempted to say you should go with a glass cannon like belcher, Spanish Inquisition, or Oops All Spells.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Quick question. My meta is:

Burn
Elves!
Deadguy Ale (BWg)
The Gate
Pox
Manaless Dredge
Affinity
Death & Taxes

That's it. No blue decks. No Brainstorm. What would be the easiest way to win in such a meta? There's no blue decks, but the hatebears are real.

Combo, the more degenerate the better. TES or Omnitell would probably be pretty good here. If it's Omni, play Leylines in the board for all the discard.

[Crimhead]

It's seems to be quite a fair meta with only a single combo deck (not counting stiflenought) so a deck that prays on fair decks is probably the way to go. Either Jund, Shardless or miracles would probably be pretty favoured.Two combo deccks - Elves and Reanimator.

You might consider Lands if you have the cards. Control Lands is better against Elves with the main deck Engineered Explosives. Reanimator and Burn will be your toughest MUs, and both of those are winnable. D&T is 50/50, and you'll have some very favourable matches too!

Assuming you consider Lands "fair". To some people 'fair' means anything non-combo. To other people it means aggro, tempo, or midrange and nothing else. Bit of a silly term.

[Deckerator]

Hey i played a lot of BUG Delver over the last few month. Now i wanna start something new.

My meta consists of
1x Elves
1-2x Reanimator
1x ANT
1-2x Merfolk
1x Dredge
1x Punishing-Jund
1x BUG Delver
2-3x Miracles
1x Omniscience

Hope you can help me to find a deck that performs well in this meta.
Thanks for your ideas.
Now, after some time of brainstorm i thought about playing Reanimator, Sneak&Show or Infect. What is the best one for this meta?

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[Richard Cheese]

Quick question. My meta is:

Burn
Elves!
Deadguy Ale (BWg)
The Gate
Pox
Manaless Dredge
Affinity
Death & Taxes

That's it. No blue decks. No Brainstorm. What would be the easiest way to win in such a meta? There's no blue decks, but the hatebears are real.

Belcher, or TinFins if you want to spend a lot more money and have a little protection. None of those decks can stop a turn 0 win.

[Deckerator]

Hey i played a lot of BUG Delver over the last few month. Now i wanna start something new.

My meta consists of
1x Elves
1-2x Reanimator
1x ANT
1-2x Merfolk
1x Dredge
1x Punishing-Jund
1x BUG Delver
2-3x Miracles
1x Omniscience

Hope you can help me to find a deck that performs well in this meta.
Thanks for your ideas.
Any idea?

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[Julian23]

I really wouldn't hate playing Reanimator in that meta. Just make sure to pack some good tech for the awkward mirror and Mirales. Spell Pierces, Flusterstorms etc.

[CptHaddock]

What would guys play in this meta?

2-3 D&T
2-3 Miracles
1 UWr Stoneblade
1 RUG Delver (This guy usually switches it up)
1 Punishing Jund
1 Grixis Control
1-2 Storm
1-2 Elves

Then we usually get 1-2 with various niche decks like young Frankenstein, pox, etc.

edit:

Derp we also have 2 Show and Tell players (1 omni, 1 sneak). Not sure how I forgot about them.

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

If you can dodge storm and miracles, lands would run train there

12 post I imagine would be fine, dunno what it's grixis MU looks like (good I guess?)

[Admiral_Arzar]

If you can dodge storm and miracles, lands would run train there

12 post I imagine would be fine, dunno what it's grixis MU looks like (good I guess?)

12-post seems fine against Grixis Control (without Wasteland). Grixis Delver is probably a poor matchup. That meta looks like a field day for Punishing Jund though, just pack sweepers in the board for Elves and your only bad matchup is Storm.

[Deckerator]

Thanks for the advices. Reanimator sounds interessting. Maybe i wanna play a deck with some counters because i dont wanna lose at instant against decks like OmniTell, ANT

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[Admiral_Arzar]

Thanks for the advices. Reanimator sounds interessting. Maybe i wanna play a deck with some counters because i dont wanna lose at instant against decks like OmniTell, ANT

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If you want to beat other combo decks while still having game against a lot of other things, Reanimator is your deck. Just be prepared to mulligan aggressively and lose to your own deck occasionally as it's not the most consistent thing out there.

[wizard_of_gore]

Guys, what should I play in local metagame where 2x merfolk, 1x ug infect and gbw nic fit are top contenders? I found very difficult to cover all 3 archetypes because nic fit are so different than merfolks and Ug infect. I don't have any combo deck, but i can put together various "fair" decks from my cardpool (from jund, deadguy, maverick, rock to various BUG decks, Uwx midrange/controls, various delver decks and nic fit).

[ESG]

Guys, what should I play in local metagame where 2x merfolk, 1x ug infect and gbw nic fit are top contenders? I found very difficult to cover all 3 archetypes because nic fit are so different than merfolks and Ug infect. I don't have any combo deck, but i can put together various "fair" decks from my cardpool (from jund, deadguy, maverick, rock to various BUG decks, Uwx midrange/controls, various delver decks and nic fit).

Jund is probably decent there. You have basics to fetch off Veteran Explorers in the Nic Fit matchup, and your deck wants to reach the midgame. As long as you deal with their Top, you'll have better topdecks. Merfolk dies to Punishing Fire except for TNN, so you'll need some combination of Liliana, Golgari Charm, Marsh Casualties, or Engineered Plague between pre-board and post-board, but otherwise you'll be fine. Infect is much easier when Jund is on the play and can hold up Lightning Bolt and/or Wasteland. Infect has to play a tempo game to win the matchup and will want to KO you before Turn 3. After boarding, you'll want more removal spells, the cheaper the better. Dismember and Ancient Grudge are excellent. All the creatures are x/1s, so any -1/-1 sweeper is strong.

If you go for a Delver deck, I think UR Delver could work out reasonably well. Your creatures start out better than Merfolk's, and you have plenty of cheap ways to keep Infect's creatures off the board. Nic Fit is less consistent, so you'll have the advantage of speed and consistency. UR Delver usually plays basics, so you can benefit off Explorer. You just want fast beats, burn, and ways to reload.

[ironclad8690]

Hey guys,

I have been playing BURG and Grixis/g Delver, but I am getting crushed by 1) a UWR Blade deck with 4 Supreme Verdicts, 6 basic lands, and a bunch of weird planeswalkers (I think 1 Jace, 1 Narset, 1 Nahiri, Lithomancer, and 1 Elspeth, Knight Errant). I think his only creatures are 4 Stoneforge and 2-3 Snapcaster Mage, and then a metric ton of removal (4 Swords to Plowshares, 3 Council's Judgment, 4 Supreme Verdict, Pyroblast postboard etc); and 2) a Monastery Mentor Miracles deck (standard build basically).

I have access to BUG, BURG, Grixis, and RUG Delvers, but I am not sure which configuration to play or what kinds of cards would be powerful. I am leaning towards something with Stifle to combat the ridiculous curve of the blade deck, but last time I tried RUG or Grixis with Stifles I got Counterbalanced out pretty easily by Miracles.

Would you guys recommend something like BUG delver because Abrupt Decay is a nice answer to Counterbalance and you also have discard and stifle to combat the high curve blade deck?

[Finn]

Lands