Deck Idea: Leyline Living.

[Valarne]

Hello there. English is not my first language – now you're warned!

(scroll down a few posts for version 2.0!)

Ever since I stumbled upon the Helm of Obedience/Leyline of the Void combo, I've been thinking about different ways of breaking this in Legacy. Apart from it being a new combo, which was intriguing by itself, I also felt that having a combopiece as versatile as Leyline of The Void should grant it a place in the Legacy metagame. Somehow.

Finding the proper synergistic shell has been hard for me though. This is my most recent and optimistic build, focusing on synergies, and deck manipulation. However, my deckbuilding skills aren't fully evolved, so I'm looking forward to seeing your thoughts and ideas.

Fresh deckname: Leyline Living.

Synergy:

Leyline of the Void maindecked, isn't going to be great unless this gravehate is utilized through other cards. In comes the old and dusty Living Death. Sweeping the board for creatures, and offering one-sided mass-recursion.

This made me think of getting big guys in the grave – such as three Demi-God of Revenge through Buried Alive or discard options such as Thirst For Knowledge. Using Demi-Gods seemed useful, considering their Haste ability, and the fact that a fourth Demi-God hardcasted, can serve as a kind of alternate Living Death.

Tutoring/Disruption:

The two comboish approaches of either Helm of Obedience or Living Death need tutoring. And I'm a fan of Lim-Duls Vault. In it goes alongside Brainstorm.

The outline of this deck is pointing towards control with a early midgame explosive finish. Large amounts of fast critters and a Tarmogoyf clock could pose a problem. Counterspells and removal seem appropriate. Smother is chosen, since Tombstalker, one of the few played threats out of its reach, shouldnt be a problem when playing Leyline of the Void. I like the idea of having my opponent trying to play around both Daze and Spell Snare – hence the two-offs. Maybe too random though, what do you think? Engineered Explosives for the all-round, and through Academy Ruins, recurrable removal.

Decklist sketch:

Combo pieces:

4 Leyline of the Void
2 Helm of Obedience
3 Living Death
3 Buried Alive
4 Demi-God of Revenge

Tutoring/setup:
4 Lim-Duls Vault
4 Brainstorm
2 Thirst For Knowledge

Disruption:
4 Force of Will
2 Daze
2 Spell Snare
3 Smother
1 Engineered Explosives

22 Lands:
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
4 Ancient Tomb (for accelerating primary combo-pieces)
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (for enabling hardcastability of Demi-Gods)
1 Academy Ruins
3 Islands
1 Swamp

Sideboard is too premature to list for now, I guess.
Match-up thoughts seems to early as well - but will be added if the deck finds its ground.

My primary concerns:
Is the whole Living Death approach too clunky, and is there another and better way of providing one-sidedness via Leyline of the Void?

Is the Ancient Tomb-approach too random in its effort in sending out cards such as Buried Alive, Thirst for Knowledge, Living Death and Helm of Obedience a bit faster?

Maybe you'll have noticed the odd numbers in the decklist. I like this, and suspect that it is functional, considering the setup value of Lim-Duls Vault and Brainstorm. Thoughts and critique of this, and all other aspects, is very welcome though!

If you come up with suggestions such as ”Run four Smother”, or ”Run this or that card”, I would greatly appreciate if you suggest what to cut for it instead. I also hope that you can sense that I'm not satisified with the proposed list, but simply feel that this approach could be worthwhile testing and hopefully both fun and competitive someday.

Thanks in advance!

[dahcmai]

Well, I'll tell you right off the bat, I've never been a fan of Buried Alive. that's just me hating on the card, but I did notice you can take advantage of my preferred choice for that spot. Intuition.

Intuition would give you a Demigod in hand to go with the two that go to the grave, pitches to Force, gives you a search card for combo pieces, and happens to be blue which you already have the manabase for so no need for a splash. Though it does mean you need to go up to 3 Helms to be able to tutor for that.

With only 3 artifacts to pitch to Thirst, it seems a little meh. You don't really even want to pitch those artifacts to it anyway. Why not just try something a little better. Impulse if you're just wanting dig power, it goes one more deep and doesn't require you to toss combo components. If you're wanting that discard ability so you can toss in Demigods, there's still better options like Strategic Planning (expensive) or Careful Study. There's also Compulsive Research if you like the ability to keep two cards and only requires a land toss instead of an Artifact.

Since Living Death really really wants a Leyline out and so does the Helm, you might consider Serum Powder just to make sure it's in your opening hand.

I'm not sure what direction this deck is trying to go since I haven't thrown it together and tried it, but it seems like it wants to go combo out and then do something with Demigods. The Helm doesn't set off a Demigod's ability if you hit yourself so it seems like it was more of a filler idea instead of pushing some synergy between the two. You might go into that a little more since I don't really see any interactions between the two strategies.

[Valarne]

Well, I'll tell you right off the bat, I've never been a fan of Buried Alive. that's just me hating on the card, but I did notice you can take advantage of my preferred choice for that spot. Intuition.

Intuition would give you a Demigod in hand to go with the two that go to the grave, pitches to Force, gives you a search card for combo pieces, and happens to be blue which you already have the manabase for so no need for a splash. Though it does mean you need to go up to 3 Helms to be able to tutor for that.

With only 3 artifacts to pitch to Thirst, it seems a little meh. You don't really even want to pitch those artifacts to it anyway. Why not just try something a little better. Impulse if you're just wanting dig power, it goes one more deep and doesn't require you to toss combo components. If you're wanting that discard ability so you can toss in Demigods, there's still better options like Strategic Planning (expensive) or Careful Study. There's also Compulsive Research if you like the ability to keep two cards and only requires a land toss instead of an Artifact.

Since Living Death really really wants a Leyline out and so does the Helm, you might consider Serum Powder just to make sure it's in your opening hand.

I'm not sure what direction this deck is trying to go since I haven't thrown it together and tried it, but it seems like it wants to go combo out and then do something with Demigods. The Helm doesn't set off a Demigod's ability if you hit yourself so it seems like it was more of a filler idea instead of pushing some synergy between the two. You might go into that a little more since I don't really see any interactions between the two strategies.

Thanks for an insightful reply! Intuition seems perfect, and more versatile - I will be working with that from now on instead of Buried Alive.

Through some goldfishing and thinking, I'm thinking that Demi-God is actually too expensive, and hardly possible to hardcast, plus its massive appearance might be a bit win-more, after a resolved Living Death, compared to recurring smaller but more versatile and early-game mvp's such as Shriekmaw and in part Epochrasite. I'll test StifleNought as well, as Intuition into Dreadnought would give two ways of playing the big guy - Stifle the hardcasted, or Living Death saccing one to the other.

I tried Serum Powder, but feel that if going that way, it would be better to focus completely on the combo, whereas my hope is that this could do for a deck harder to disrupt than a quasi-Belcher. Also going for a deck where opening hands without Leyline can be played as well - with Living Death as the game-changing turn 4 trump.

I'll be testing out different approaches that accomodate a better early game and stability, and perhaps getting more possibilities out of Intuition.

[Valarne]

Version 2.0:


4 Mulldrifter (massive card advantage when recurred)
4 Shriekmaw (removal and evasion after recursion)
4 Street Wraith (-free- cycling -> decent evasion beater after recursion)
4 Shoreline Ranger (Islandcycling seems good, decent evasive beater as well)

4 Leyline
3 Helm
3 Living Death
3 Intuition (should maybe be 4 - need more testing)

4 FoW
4 Brainstorm
2 Pact of Negation (could be Daze?)

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
4 Island
2 Swamp

In this highly revised list, which in preliminary testing is much more consistent and fun, the deck plays out sort of like this:

Turn 1: Island, go (with or without Leyline in play) endstep Brainstorm, Street Wraith cycle, or both.

Turn 2: Land, Shriekmaw or go, endstep cycle Shoreline or Wraith.

Turn 3: Land. Several options might be open here. Either evoke Mulldrifter, or go, endstep Intuition into either Helm or Living Death (if Ancient Tomb is in hand), Ancient Tomb, if Living Death or Helm is in hand, or into Street Wraiths, if Tomb and Living Death is in hand.
Getting 3 or 4 Street Wraiths plus maybe one more creature out into an open playing field, while still retaining a decent handsize due to cycling, is a great feeling!

Im thinking that it is quintessential that there be some counterbackup, before launching Helm or Living Death - thus the addition of the two Pacts of Negation which should be playable by this turn, since both my keyspells require 5 mana (Helm 4+1).

[Mordel]

Fluctuator+cycling creatures+accel+imperial seal=seems to have more potential

There are far better decks(no offense), with far more simple strategies that aren't "getting there". If you are making a deck for the sake of being creative, that's cool, but I honestly don't see this deck stealing games for you against landstill, thresh or [whatever] tendrils.

[Valarne]

Fluctuator+cycling creatures+accel+imperial seal=seems to have more potential

There are far better decks(no offense), with far more simple strategies that aren't "getting there". If you are making a deck for the sake of being creative, that's cool, but I honestly don't see this deck stealing games for you against landstill, thresh or [whatever] tendrils.

I didn't knew Fluctuator - certainly should be abuseable in a deck focused on just that. What's the Imperial Seal for?

Well, I don't think that the deck is tier2 yet, and certainly not tier1 either, but I hope to make something tier2ish out of it through optimization. Whether or not the Living Death approach is the best one out there, I'm not sure of - but I'm confidant that there is some way to combine Leylines onesided gravehate with something stable and aggressive, to compliment the combo-win of the Helm.

I'm not entering any major tournaments with the deck in the nearest future, thats for sure.

[Wobbles The Goose]

The problem I see is that you are going to draw multiple living deaths, helms, and leylines. These cards are either dead or weak in multiples; you can't even pitch them to force of will.

Also, if you don't have a leyline in your opening hand, you deck becomes incredibly slow. This makes it hard for a deck to be aggressive with the combo without going all in to combo mode.

Basically, there was one deck in legacy running main deck leylines before this combo was spoiled: Iggy pop. The thread discussing such a hybrid is: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11138&highlight=Helm+Obedience

Living Death in interesting, but when it's only getting back a mulldrifter and a street wraith because you need to cast it on turn 4, it's probably not strong enough.

Just try a search for helm of obedience, I'm sure you will turn up a lot of good deck possibilities.

Also, FYI: Imperial Seal is banned in Legacy.

[Mordel]

The reason I suggested the fluctuator/accel/living death/seal approach is because fluctuator with over twenty cycling creatures translates into a deck that is under forty cards. A deck that is under forty cards can be extremely consistent in finding a card like living death. I suggested seal for finding fluctuator or death mostly. Acceleration is needed so you can play living death earlier. The only way I honestly see living death really doing well is if it is cast quickly and wins the game for you the second it resolves. I don't see living death doing that in the deck(s) above.

Here is a really off the cuff list that I'll just put down for the sake of argument:

// Lands
2 [7E] Swamp (3)
2 [B] Underground Sea
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
4 [ON] Polluted Delta

// Creatures
1 [US] Pendrell Drake
4 [LE] Keeneye Aven
4 [US] Drifting Djinn
4 [ALA] Jungle Weaver
4 [ALA] Ridge Rannet
4 [FUT] Street Wraith
4 [LE] Primoc Escapee

// Spells
4 [TE] Living Death
3 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [DM] Dark Ritual
4 [P3] Imperial Seal
4 [US] Fluctuator

So there are obviously problems like needing a haste outlet(mass hysteria or concordant crossroads) and force of will destroys it, but I fished the deck a few times and I got a turn one win, turn two win and fiveturn three wins out of ten fishes. Obviously the idea is ultimately flawed to start with, but either way, something like that is pretty much as good as you can get for living death in legacy imho.

Living death fits very poorly control shell. With the first list that you posted, you might as well have removed the buried alives, vaults and deaths and just made more of a control deck that can do fifteen damage out of nowhere.

I don't know if you have read this article that Mike Flores wrote about rogue deck building a few years ago, but the information in it is largely universal. He does make a huge segue or two, but as a whole if you have not read it yet, you might benefit from it: http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/6984.html

[PhanTom_lt]

Obviously the idea is ultimately flawed to start with, but either way, something like that is pretty much as good as you can get for living death in legacy imho.


The idea is surely flawed when you have to use banned cards to get remotely close to winning.

[wolfstorm]

If Demigod is your only living death/ Buried alive target wouldn't Exhume be better?.. Considering only one demigod has to hit play/trigger and the rest will follow?...

[Wobbles The Goose]

@Mordel

That deck is discussed TO DEATH AND BACK here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4393&highlight=flucuator

Also, Imperial Seal is banned in legacy.

Also, Demigod of Revenge triggers upon being played, not coming into play. Exhume will not get back more than one copy.

[Mordel]

Yeah, I forgot about seal being banned. It's hard to imagine, I know.

[wolfstorm]

Also, Demigod of Revenge triggers upon being played, not coming into play. Exhume will not get back more than one copy.


Oops! totally misread that ><.