Mono U trinket donation

[hwtcharger07]

I played in a small tournament last tuesday and planned to use ichorid combo, until I realized that I was missing my dread returns. I quickly threw together a deck with the rares and uncommons i had with me, this is what i came up with.

lands:

23 island

Creatures:

4 trinket mage

Spells:

4 illusions of granduer
4 donate
4 brainstorm
4 force of will
4 counterspell
4 accumulated knowledge
4 counterbalance
3 divining top
2 intuition

SB:
1 tormod's crypt
2 chalice of the void
13 of nothing good

this list is pretty terrible, and im not suggesting anyone try to play this and do well but out of four swiss rounds I finished up 2-1-0 got me 3rd out of 9 and tied for second. The main reason for this was that no one there knew of the illusions-donate combo. 4 out of the 9 decks were reanimator with 2 of those being teir 1 ichorid combo. i enjoyed playing this deck alot, it does good against most creautre based decks as it gives you 20 life on turn 4. Force of will, and couter top also hose any combo decks running aroung with trinket mage to find anything good.not one deck i played against was able to get my counterbalance off the table once it had resolved and even if you dont have top on the board brainstorm acts as a 1 mana counterspell that draws you cards. I had more fun playing this deck than i would have had playing dredge and i was happy with the result as well. I plan on playing this deck in the future although i plan to make some changes, here they are.

Lands:
2 polluted delta
2 flooded delta
1 seat of the synod
1 great furnace
17 islands

Creatures:
4 trinket mage

Spells
4 illusions of granduer
4 donate
4 brainstorm
4 force of will
4 counterbalance
2 counterspell
2 echoing truth
3 sensei's divining top
2 tormod's crypt
2 chalice of the void
2 engineered explosives

SB:
2 tormod's crypt
2 chalice of the void
2 engineered explosives
2 echoing truth
4 spellsnare
3 ?

I think this deck could do well in a meta game with ichorid (or any reanimator), threshold, combo, and random creture heavy decks. I think the ability to tutor for powerful cheap artifacts that trip up powerful decks is invaluale; also once you give the opponent you illusions it is very hard for them to stay alive, and if left alone long enough the illusions will kill them unless they have a way to gain life, which most good decks dont, and if they do, it is not uncommon to give them two illusions. anyway i would really appreciate any input of this deck, its a blast to play, and can deal well with a variety of situations.

[socialite]

http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardscans/MAGTIM/krosan_grip.jpg

[Elficidium]

Not very subtle but ever so correct.
Anyway, quite flawed as a plan. Is there a possible way to solve this, short of playing a completely different deck?
MB Meddling Mages could work.

[hwtcharger07]

thankyou, that is very helpful, i undertsand that krosan grip is going to hurt my cause, but that is the case for any deck that relys on an artifact or enchantment to win the game.

[hwtcharger07]

I think meddling would be a good anwser to grip, plus alot of other problem cards that are key to most combo build. I cant think of a deck that meddling mage doesn't help against and i would seriously consider adding it.

[Rood]

Go with Stifle/Nought in place of Illusons/Gift...not only is it faster and can be useful outside of the combo you don't get killed by K-grip and lose the game instantly.

[KillemallCFH]

thankyou, that is very helpful, i undertsand that krosan grip is going to hurt my cause, but that is the case for any deck that relys on an artifact or enchantment to win the game.Yeah, but other decks don't literally lose the game when they get a Krosan Grip played on them. That's what makes the Trix combo nonviable in the current meta.

[TheLion]

the original Trix lists played Sapphire Medaillon to speed it up. Instead of Meddling Mage, you could try more 3cc cards for Counterbalance (laying it on top before comboing) or In the Eye of Chaos, to fight Krosan Grip.
I'd cut the Great Furnace and 2-3 Island and add Ancient Tombs.
also: -1 Counterbalance, -1 Crypt, +2 Counterspell, -1 Chalice, -1 EE, -1 Trinket Mage, + 3 Sapphire Medaillon.

[Rood]

Best ways to handle K-grip...Meddling Mage, MoTM, Blood Moon.

Also another thought would be Thoughtseize/Duress though not nearly as reliable. You basically need to splash another color here to deal with Grip if you do stick with this combo. I think you should really take a look at MoTM first.

[GreenOne]

There's also CB+ lots of 3cc.

[TheLion]

nah... Moon effects are too random. They only need the 1 Forest or nonland source (mox). And decks which run Krosan Grip are green anyway.... obviously.

Declaration of Nought could help against all non-Krosan Grip enchanment destroyers, if that matters...

[socialite]

I honestly hate to say it but there is no reason to play this deck, in Legacy, over any other deck. The combo is fragile at best. Plausible in a casual environment only. In which case your friends should beat you with soap in a sock for playing combo.

[Rood]

nah... Moon effects are too random. They only need the 1 Forest or nonland source (mox). And decks which run Krosan Grip are green anyway.... obviously.

Declaration of Nought could help against all non-Krosan Grip enchanment destroyers, if that matters...

Most every K-grip deck I ever face relies on some Dual land to get the green mana necessary. TA, Threshold, Dreadstill, ITF, etc. Not many people use moxes really only combo =/.

[raharu]

You want Back to Basics. Seriously.

[hwtcharger07]

good looks on the back to basics, those definately would help.


Yeah, but other decks don't literally lose the game when they get a Krosan Grip played on them. That's what makes the Trix combo nonviable in the current meta.

the deck doesn't lose ill dig for another illusions if they grip the first, it is deffinately a severe setback but krosan grip (which is usualy a sideboard card) is not a reason to not play an archetype; thats like saying people shouldn't play a deck with creatures because someone might play wrath of god.


the original Trix lists played Sapphire Medaillon to speed it up. Instead of Meddling Mage, you could try more 3cc cards for Counterbalance (laying it on top before comboing) or In the Eye of Chaos, to fight Krosan Grip.
I'd cut the Great Furnace and 2-3 Island and add Ancient Tombs.
also: -1 Counterbalance, -1 Crypt, +2 Counterspell, -1 Chalice, -1 EE, -1 Trinket Mage, + 3 Sapphire Medaillon.

does counterbalance even work against krosan grip? i wasnt sure if counterbalance counted as an activated ability?
also i have seen the older decks running the medallions and they can speed the deck up by a turn, two if you run ancient tombs (i think the tombs are a good idea because you dont care much about a few points of life when your about to gain 20)


Best ways to handle K-grip...Meddling Mage, MoTM, Blood Moon.

Also another thought would be Thoughtseize/Duress though not nearly as reliable. You basically need to splash another color here to deal with Grip if you do stick with this combo. I think you should really take a look at MoTM first.
what's MotM sorry i don't know this one?


I honestly hate to say it but there is no reason to play this deck, in Legacy, over any other deck. The combo is fragile at best. Plausible in a casual environment only. In which case your friends should beat you with soap in a sock for playing combo.
why play magic if everyone is going to play the same deck? I dont understand how you see the combo as fragile it requires 2 cards, and give you 20 life on turn 5 (3 if you play ancient and medallion), all you have to do is live long enough that they cant pay upkeep cost, once you donate it to them they cant do anything to get rid of the clock, besides stp their own creatures. If you are concerned of them doing that then counter it. the only card that stops the combo cold is krosan grip, which according to eveyone else can be countered with counter top or nulled from meddling mage.

In light of everyone's suggestions I'm posting a new list:

Lands:
3 polluted delta
3 flooded delta
1 seat of the synod
2 tundra
4 ancient tomb
9 islands

Creatures:
4 trinket mage
4 meddling mage

Spells

4 illusions of granduer
4 donate
4 brainstorm
4 force of will
4 counterbalance
3 sage's dousing
3 sensei's divining top
1 tormod's crypt
1 chalice of the void
1 engineered explosives
1 pithing needle

SB:
3 tormod's crypt
3 chalice of the void
3 engineered explosives
3 pithing needle
3?

as for the krosan grip conundrum turn 1 top turn, 2 CB, end of turn 3 stack library with brainstorm or top putting donate 2nd so you draw it in two turns, play illussions when they try to grip it reveal donate, then draw it during your next upkeep, also you could put sage's dousing in the stack. dousing may seem a subpar card choice but considering most people believe 3 cc spells to be need for countertop it was easily the best choice especialy with the addition of meddling mage. this newer version is able to donate their illusions as early as turn 3 also which will essentialy win you the game as it is unlikely your opponent will have 4 mana available on turn 3 if your on the play. I think this combo is very viable, much more so than belcher which rolls over to any kind of counters or disruption this combo is pretty resilient, and the deck has a large amount of disruption. let me know how everyone feels about the changes

[Roman Candle]

the deck doesn't lose ill dig for another illusions if they grip the first,

The issue is that they can Grip with the CIP trigger still on the stack, so you lose twenty life before you gain twenty life.

[hwtcharger07]

I see, that does then truely suck. then I guess if you know they have grip meddling mage or set up a countertop stack with sage's dousing or donate and ruin their day. I was unaware grip could be played during the CIP to kill you that being said i imagine that most players would go for the kill with the grip so it should be easy to bait them into gripping with CB set to 3 on top of your library. If there is a chance they have grip you must have CB before you play illusions, I doubt they will wit until you try to donate the illusions, making both cards worthless, honestly id rather have them try to kill it first. Let me know if my thinking here is flawed.

[Mordenkaynen]

I'm not sure it's a right way to use Donate combo. What do you think of playing something like Stax shell with Donate and Puca's mischeif? I mean, put those B2B, In the Eye of Chaos etc, use sapphere medalion for speed up, Energy field for protection, Mischief for stealing beater or other things (trading your own permanents which doesn't matter) and winning with Illusions/stolen creatures/donated Embargo.
The trinket-box seems too clunky here [emm.. I'm not sure I use the word in a right way, I mean it looks awkward and not doing much].

[TheLion]

Yes, I also think a Stax shell would be the best for this kind of deck. I have already tinkered around with B2B, ItoChaos, Puca's Michief.
I also added Chalice, Trinisphere, Vedalken Shackles and Propaganda. (cutting Brainstorm (Chalice) and FoW (Trinisphere), which was a bad idea). Maybe I'd still cut the Brainstorms for Chalice, but FoW > Trinisphere, most often.
Also Crucible, Moxen, City of Traitors, Wasteland as alternative lock/win condition. Even Compulsive Research (synergy with crucible).

I think it is a good attempt, that works, but becomes a control deck with a combo finish.

[socialite]

why play magic if everyone is going to play the same deck? I dont understand how you see the combo as fragile it requires 2 cards, and give you 20 life on turn 5 (3 if you play ancient and medallion), all you have to do is live long enough that they cant pay upkeep cost, once you donate it to them they cant do anything to get rid of the clock, besides stp their own creatures. If you are concerned of them doing that then counter it. the only card that stops the combo cold is krosan grip, which according to eveyone else can be countered with counter top or nulled from meddling mage.

So the deck now becomes a 3 card combo, since you need Counter Balance and or Meddling Mage to not auto lose, that still doesn't win until turn 5. Ok. Enjoy.

[TheLion]

LOL? If other combo decks run Duress, Orim's Chant, Thoughtseize, Force of Will to protect their combo would you count those cards to their combo pieces? No. And winning on turn 5 is not wrong, if you play (combo-)control.

[Elficidium]

LOL? If other combo decks run Duress, Orim's Chant, Thoughtseize, Force of Will to protect their combo would you count those cards to their combo pieces? No. And winning on turn 5 is not wrong, if you play (combo-)control.
When other combos get stopped, they need to wait a couple of turns and try again, the protection is optional.
When this combo gets stopped, which it will post SB since everyone is prepared for Enchantments, you lose the game. The protection is a necessary part of the combo since you can't just wait a couple of turns and try again.

[hwtcharger07]

Thanks lion I appreciate the fact that some people can appreciate trying to protect a combo and play control. Familiar your comments offer no help to me or anyone trying to improve on a deck. I understand Krosan grip is a powerful card and sees a good amount of play but i dont think that is an adequate reason to give up on a deck altogether. I dont have a problem dropping a mage to name grip if i knew they brought it in or having a top online to prtect the illusions, because i want to get that out anyway to stop any other kind of shenanigans.

[KillemallCFH]

Trix is a completely nonviable concept in Legacy because: Krosan Grip, a very commonly played SB (and even MD) card, literally says "You lose the game." The combo costs a whopping seven mana; nine if you do it over two turns (because you have to pay for Illusions' CU). The earliest you can combo out sans acceleration is turn 5, as opposed to say, Painter/Grind, which can curve out to a turn 3 combo, or StifleNaught, which can get a 12/12 on the board turn 2. Both cards are completely useless on their own. Even if you do manage to assemble the combo, it isn't even an instant win. The opponent can still pay for Illusions' CU for a couple turns and win. This is especially relevant because this is a control deck and plans to combo out in the late game, where the opponent will likely have mana to pay for it for a couple of turns. (Yes, I realize you gain 20 life out of it, but if you are staring down, for example, a horde of Goblins, including 1 or more Piledriver, they will easily be able to take you down from 20+ life to zero.)I really don't know what else to say. If you want to optimize a Trix list, take it to the casual forums. This is absolutely no compelling reason to run it in Legacy over other options that are available.

[Mordenkaynen]

Thanks lion I appreciate the fact that some people can appreciate trying to protect a combo and play control. Familiar your comments offer no help to me or anyone trying to improve on a deck. I understand Krosan grip is a powerful card and sees a good amount of play but i dont think that is an adequate reason to give up on a deck altogether. I dont have a problem dropping a mage to name grip if i knew they brought it in or having a top online to prtect the illusions, because i want to get that out anyway to stop any other kind of shenanigans.

Well, if you want to make a pure combo than I'll join to those guys who tell that the deck has no future. You see, with its slow speed it has no advantage when compared with painter/stone etc and also has huge disadvantage. A combo deck has to win fast, not to lose at turn 5 from its own cards.

[TheLion]

Obviously Trix can never be faster than probably any other combo deck in Legacy. And yes, all points you said are right.

The sad thing is: most people don't even give it a try, or try to fight its weaknesses or support its development.
As already said, there are some ways to fight Krosan Grip. If they play Grip they can't evolve their own game, since they always have to keep 3 mana open.
Your last point about that they can pay their upkeep long enough to win, could be fight with Crucible/Wasteland and/or B2B, as already said, too.
And most cards of other 2 card combos are useless on their own, too (Grindstone, Dreadnought, ...).
There are even other possibilities, to fight SB Krosan Grip, like a transmutional SB (maybe into something like Faerie Stompy, if you play their mana base anyway).

So I don't want to say, Trix is good or viable deck, but at least, people shouldn't just dismiss it with comments like "Krosan Grip kills you" and so damping the development on this archetype.

[Mordenkaynen]

Of'course. The thing is the author of the thread wants to make a "pure combo with protection"-style deck, not control with combo-win, so I'm not sure if the thread deserves discussing.
If he wants to make a deck in such way, I think I's for casual deck forum (of'course it's just my opinion).

[GreenOne]

Did someone test the deck? We should take into account that even a rough build should have some good matchups, otherwise there's no point in refining it rather than any other almost-competitive deck.

Other thing to take into account is why and how this deck can be better than any of the other combo-control deck (Solidarity, Doomsday, even Counterbalance Doomsday, etc), because as it is, it seems that this deck loses to the same thing a storm combo deck can lose (discard, countermagic, stifle) minus Orim's chant, Chalice and Trini, plus every enchantment hate.

Am I correct?