[Deck] RBG Aggro

[Loxodon Baileyarch]

I ran this about a month ago at my local shop, and it did fairly well. It's like a hybrid of Red Death/Eva Green/Goyf Sligh. I just took good cards and put them together for some sexy results.

My list.

4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Badlands
4 Taiga
2 Mountain
2 Bayou
1 Swamp

4 Dark Confidant
3 Mogg Fanatic
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Keldon Marauders
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Rotting Giant

4 Terminate
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Thoughtseize
3 Smother

Side Board:
4 Krosan Grip
4 Choke
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Engineered Plague

I just took good cards from the colors i love most and made this deck, and usually went 3-1 each week. Thoughts?

[Media314r8]

You play black and no disruption. Glass cannon decks are better as goblins, as they at least have mana denial built-in. IMO cabal therapy deserves a slot or four here- FB with keldons post-swing, nuetered rotting giants, second grims, ect. You should probably just ditch rotting giant for the therapies on second thought- he is a watchwolf with a drawback and dysenegistic with grim and goyf, two of the best guys in your deck.

[Loxodon Baileyarch]

You play black and no disruption. Glass cannon decks are better as goblins, as they at least have mana denial built-in. IMO cabal therapy deserves a slot or four here- FB with keldons post-swing, nuetered rotting giants, second grims, ect. You should probably just ditch rotting giant for the therapies on second thought- he is a watchwolf with a drawback and dysenegistic with grim and goyf, two of the best guys in your deck.

True statement haha. He never really hurt me much, but i wouldn't mind running something else in his place. I've never been a fan of Therapy, but then again, i've never used it so i can't judge. I'll playtest though.

[Forbiddian]

While I agree that the deck is not perfect (Rotting Giant just looks awful) and Keldon Marauders and such seem very weak, the deck's strength is its extremely strong removal suite and strong mana base.

7 hard removal spells, 8 burn, 3 Lavamancer, 3 Fanatic, and 4 thoughtseize is the core and probably why the deck was at least reasonably successful.

It seems really difficult for decks that rely on equipment or on 8-10 big creatures to win the aggro MU to get over that. Also, creature removal beats up on casual decks hard.


Obviously cards like Moat, WoG, Counterbalance are one sided rape, but if your meta doesn't run cards like that, you might be able to get away with it.

[Loxodon Baileyarch]

While I agree that the deck is not perfect (Rotting Giant just looks awful) and Keldon Marauders and such seem very weak, the deck's strength is its extremely strong removal suite and strong mana base.

7 hard removal spells, 8 burn, 3 Lavamancer, 3 Fanatic, and 4 thoughtseize is the core and probably why the deck was at least reasonably successful.

It seems really difficult for decks that rely on equipment or on 8-10 big creatures to win the aggro MU to get over that. Also, creature removal beats up on casual decks hard.


Obviously cards like Moat, WoG, Counterbalance are one sided rape, but if your meta doesn't run cards like that, you might be able to get away with it.

Effective immediately no more Rotting Giant haha.
But yeah i never run into moat in my meta, like ever, one person runs counterbalance, and no Wog either.

And like i've discussed above, rotting giants will probably come out for cabal therapy, duress, or more removal. One of the three i just have to test. I've always been a fan of more removal though.

[Mordel]

I don't know what your meta is like, but wretched anurid might be a solid replacement for rotting giant. The fantastics should be upped to four for sure because they are awesome and should just be played as four.

I don't really know about the marauders...they are cool in theory because they feed goyf once they get their five points for two mana in, but you are running three colours, so there might be a better card that can go longer out there. I am normally kind of irritated when I see people just sort of blurting out tombstalker recommendations, but I can see that deck supporting two as a sort of midgame "surprise bitch!" card. I suppose that depends on how comfortable you are with confidant losing you the life if you get really unlucky and whether or not you run wretched anurid instead of giant or something else.

I am still trying to think up a good two or three mana creature to replace giant, but am drawing a blank. Between black, green and red, there has to be something else though.

[Nihil Credo]

Hmm, I wonder if it's time for Burning-Tree Shaman to shine again with everyone and their brother playing Divining Top or Planeswalkers (which BTS can hurt). Countryside Crusher is almost always better, but in a deck with few or no activated abilities, very few lands, no LD, and a significant number of non-Red lands the Shaman could be a serious challenger.

[/random musing]

[Mirrislegend]

I've been waiting a long time for BTS's day in the sun. That being said, the niche for it that Nihil described pretty much prevents it from being in any good decks, right?

[idraleo]

Maindeck Jund Charm is awsome in this buils, it sweeps board, helps on tons of metagame, and at least it is a good call on your Goyfs, thanks to the couple of counters that emproves is p/t ratio.

[Infinitium]

Whatever happened to Destructive Flow? Harder to cast than moon but does a bigger number on decks that hinges on 1-3 basics for color purposes only.

[Loxodon Baileyarch]

Hmm, I wonder if it's time for Burning-Tree Shaman to shine again with everyone and their brother playing Divining Top or Planeswalkers (which BTS can hurt). Countryside Crusher is almost always better, but in a deck with few or no activated abilities, very few lands, no LD, and a significant number of non-Red lands the Shaman could be a serious challenger.

[/random musing]

Ya know i'm glad you mentioned that. I ran him as a two of one week, mine and my friend thor's personal tech. He tested very well. Shocking to fetch and Lava Darting to look at the top is just great.

[Loxodon Baileyarch]

Whatever happened to Destructive Flow? Harder to cast than moon but does a bigger number on decks that hinges on 1-3 basics for color purposes only.

I haven't really tested it, but i run so many non basics i don't think it would be worth it. I just like more removal or more burn in the main. The reach really helps.

[Loxodon Baileyarch]

I don't know what your meta is like, but wretched anurid might be a solid replacement for rotting giant. The fantastics should be upped to four for sure because they are awesome and should just be played as four.

I don't really know about the marauders...they are cool in theory because they feed goyf once they get their five points for two mana in, but you are running three colours, so there might be a better card that can go longer out there. I am normally kind of irritated when I see people just sort of blurting out tombstalker recommendations, but I can see that deck supporting two as a sort of midgame "surprise bitch!" card. I suppose that depends on how comfortable you are with confidant losing you the life if you get really unlucky and whether or not you run wretched anurid instead of giant or something else.

I am still trying to think up a good two or three mana creature to replace giant, but am drawing a blank. Between black, green and red, there has to be something else though.

I ran anurid for like two weeks and wanted to /wrist, bc out of like four rounds i played, goblins, W Aggro, goblins. Having seige gang come down is like a kick in the balls. I was a fan of the anurid though so i bought a playset :smile:

[Loxodon Baileyarch]

Maindeck Jund Charm is awsome in this buils, it sweeps board, helps on tons of metagame, and at least it is a good call on your Goyfs, thanks to the couple of counters that emproves is p/t ratio.

Jund Charm??? The instant speed pyroclasm one right???

[jbmulder]

I'd like to see a deck try him (http://magiccards.info/ala/en/197.html) out. Removal would be pointed elsewhere, I think, before it's pointed at him.

[Forbiddian]

3 for a 3/3 isn't that great. They can just keep taking the 3 (3 really isn't that much unless you can back it up). Also Swords wipes it out clean. Swords is a great reason NOT to run a creature, but a 3/3 is so manageable now. You probably want all the fatties in this deck to be able to grab the game single-handedly.

Obviously stuff you should look at in place of Rotting Giant: Tombstalker (I know about Bob, just grow a pair and try it, 90% of the time your opponent immediately removes Bob if they can anyway and even getting Price of Progressed for flipping him isn't GG), Ashenmoor Gouger, Hypnotic Specter, Hymn to Tourach, Duress.

I would never run Cabal Therapy in a mixed aggro meta. There are just too few bombs for it to be worth it. In some metas, cards like Pernicious Deed are just so dangerous that even wasting a card to guarantee your opponent doesn't have it can be worth it. Against mixed aggro (or even against any deck not on the internet where you don't know the answers available to them), Cabal Therapy is really weak.


Vaguely similar deck here: http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=20570

The deck relies on lots and lots of removal and then going over it with Ashenmoor Gouger or Tombstalker.

[idraleo]

Jund Charm??? The instant speed pyroclasm one right???

Yes that one. Thrynax will be better if you maindeck some Greater Gargadont, but alone by itself it sounds out of place...

[Loxodon Baileyarch]

Next Wednesday for my weekly legacy tourney i'm gonna try some edits.

And a question, i don't really know how this site works, but what justifies a deck being moved to the "Established Decklist" page? Because i really wouldn't mind working on it enough to get it moved up.

[Forbiddian]

Basically a large number of people have to be playing it.

It needs multiple top 8s in big tournaments. It doesn't really matter what you personally do with the deck, it matters how many other people are playing it and how big an impact the deck has on the Legacy format as a whole.

It's basically a popularity contest -- which is the whole point. You don't want a bunch of decklists running around the "established decks" forum that nobody plays or just like one person. When players look to the Established Decks forum to set up their gauntlets or what not, they expect to see decks that they could conceivably compete against.


If you want to work to make it an established deck, you gotta establish it. Win with it, post a tournament report, etc. If other people think it's a strong deck, they're likely to pick it up.

[Jak]

What are you trying to do with the deck? It looks like a mash up of Goyf Sligh and Red Death. I would go for more of a midrange deck with Goyfs, Tombstalker, Burning Wishes, Jund Charms, Tops, Confidants, Discard, and then some good removal, maybe burn or maybe Smother or something. You run a ton of burn but it seems pretty bad when you can just totally destroy and beat with Stalkers and Goyfs.

Eh here is a list to try.

4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Polluted Delta
2 Bayou
2 Badlands
5 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Mountain

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Tombstalker
4 Demigod (could be nice :))

4 Thoughtseize
3 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Terminate
4 Jund Charm

4 Burning Wish
4 Sensei's Divining Top

SB (example of the goods you can have)
1 Firespout
1 Duress/Cabal Therapy
1 Haunting Echoes
1 Reverent Silence
1 Hull Breach
1 Regrowth
2 Krosan Grip
3 Extirpate
4 Choke/Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon

[Loxodon Baileyarch]

Basically a large number of people have to be playing it.

It needs multiple top 8s in big tournaments. It doesn't really matter what you personally do with the deck, it matters how many other people are playing it and how big an impact the deck has on the Legacy format as a whole.

It's basically a popularity contest -- which is the whole point. You don't want a bunch of decklists running around the "established decks" forum that nobody plays or just like one person. When players look to the Established Decks forum to set up their gauntlets or what not, they expect to see decks that they could conceivably compete against.


If you want to work to make it an established deck, you gotta establish it. Win with it, post a tournament report, etc. If other people think it's a strong deck, they're likely to pick it up.

Oh ok then. Hopefully my good looks and charm will convince people to play my awesome throwdown of a deck :>

[Loxodon Baileyarch]

I'm trying to win with good cards. Basic strategy is, kill some dudes, swing with some dudes, draw some cards. I'll put a little bit more thought into it when i'm awake.

[Wobbles The Goose]

A really interesting RGB aggro deck just top 8ed the legacy side event in Okayama:

2 Badlands
4 Bayou
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Chrome Mox

4 Dark Confidant
4 Darkheart Sliver
4 Eternal Witness
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Bitterblossom
3 Blightning
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Putrefy
2 Recurring Nightmare
2 Slaughter Pact
3 Umezawa's Jitte

SB:

2 Ancient Grudge
2 Duress
2 Emerald Charm
3 Engineered Plague
2 Jund Charm
2 Pyroblast
2 Pyroclasm

coverage:
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wizards.com%2FMagic%2FMagazine%2FArticle.aspx%3Fx%3Dmtg%2Fdaily%2Feventcoverage%2Fgpoka08%2Flegacytop8&sl=ja&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Seems awesome. I especially like the preference for blightning/hymn over more traditional discard packages seeing as they put way more pressure on combo decks. Also, recurring nightmare seems so awesome with bitterblossom and finks.

The downside of course is that I'm not sure how you ever keep a hand on the draw without a chrome mox.

[Sims]

I'm going to throw my hat into the ring and post up two decks that I've been playtesting and have had decent success with. One a list I've taken to tournaments, the other a list that I have just been musing with, but both in the same vein..

Deck 1- Note, most people will hate my manabase. Revamp it however you wish, but 6 basics/3 duals setup has worked will for this particular build in all of my games playing it, without giving up to wasteland or my own moon effect:


// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
3 [REW] Wasteland
1 [A] Bayou
1 [A] Badlands
2 [ARE] Forest (3)
2 [10E] Mountain (1)
2 [7E] Swamp (3)
3 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
1 [R] Taiga

// Creatures
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [R] Kird Ape
3 [GP] Burning-Tree Shaman
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
3 [FUT] Magus of the Moon
2 [GP] Tin Street Hooligan

// Spells
4 [AT] Lightning Bolt
4 [FNM] Terminate
3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
2 [RAV] Putrefy


Originally this deck ran Destructive Flow and another Tin Street over the Thoughtseize in a 3/1 split. Ultimately, flow proved more useful on a Chrome than on the table, as magus disrupted their mana but had a more immediate impact. Terminate stops anything, as does putrefy, with bolt providing some small critter management or reach when needed. The deck was solid and I had a lot of good times playing the deck... But there was one very stark realization that I made about this deck: It bent over to Thrash, hard. Canadian Thresh growing in popularity made me want to revamp the deck, as magus did little to them with their burn, and the deck having from 2 to 4 Fire/Ice's provided strong 2-for-1's on bob and hooligan, or your face, and let them save their spell snares for goyf. Burning Tree is a house in the format, as you can usually accept 2 damage for a fetch but they cannot accept 1 damage every time they spin the top, but Thrash's popularity made him a weaker choice for me because he simply did little in that matchup without the deck running Countertop.

Because of Thrash's prevalance in the Mass. metagame, I took the deck back to the drawing board and have been attempting to revamp it. Staying three color, the most successful revamp so far has been to this:


// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
3 [REW] Wasteland
1 [A] Bayou
1 [A] Badlands
2 [ARE] Forest (3)
2 [10E] Mountain (1)
2 [7E] Swamp (3)
3 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
1 [R] Taiga

// Creatures
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [R] Kird Ape
3 [GP] Burning-Tree Shaman
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [FUT] Magus of the Moon
2 [ALA] Sarkhan Vol

// Spells
4 [AT] Lightning Bolt
4 [FNM] Terminate
3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
2 [RAV] Putrefy
3 [ALA] Jund Charm


Jund charm provides a great, versatile slot in being an instant speed Pyroclasm or allowing you to win Goyf Wars. The removal ability of the card is useful more in the loam-control and aggro loam matches than it is against ichorid becasue typically the card is a tad slow against dredge-combo, but still useful if you can pair it with hate from the board to slow them down, as well as sweeping their zombie tokens in response to zealot (if you're fast enough). Major change is the removal of Thoughtseize, which is questionable I grant you, and the inclusion of Sarkhan Vol. Thoughtseize was strong but shined more in combo matchups, which were on the decline the last few times I had gone out there to play a large tournament. Sarkhan, on the other hand, I've been trying to find a home for in Legacy and this or maybe a mid-range deck is really where i think he belongs. Fires he isn't, but he breaks the ground stall by making your goyfs bigger, as well as threatening dreadnoughts and other fat beats for the win. I've only activated his "finisher" ability once, in the face of a moat, and I've been looking to see if anyone has tried him out since.


Either list could be competitive, they just need some work and tweaking. Again, I know my manabases are unorthadox to most and I've got my flameshield ready for it, but they've been working quite well for me in the BGR and BGW shell so far, so I really haven't had much of a pressing need to change them. In my local meta where wastelands are in literally every deck, and there's quite a few PoPs running around, I value my heavy basic manabases quite highly.

Discuss, tweak, have fun. I'd love to see this color combo become more competitive in the eye of the format as a whole and not just a few spotty metagames like my own.

[Loxodon Baileyarch]

A really interesting RGB aggro deck just top 8ed the legacy side event in Okayama:

2 Badlands
4 Bayou
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Chrome Mox

4 Dark Confidant
4 Darkheart Sliver
4 Eternal Witness
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Bitterblossom
3 Blightning
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Putrefy
2 Recurring Nightmare
2 Slaughter Pact
3 Umezawa's Jitte

SB:

2 Ancient Grudge
2 Duress
2 Emerald Charm
3 Engineered Plague
2 Jund Charm
2 Pyroblast
2 Pyroclasm

coverage:
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wizards.com%2FMagic%2FMagazine%2FArticle.aspx%3Fx%3Dmtg%2Fdaily%2Feventcoverage%2Fgpoka08%2Flegacytop8&sl=ja&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Seems awesome. I especially like the preference for blightning/hymn over more traditional discard packages seeing as they put way more pressure on combo decks. Also, recurring nightmare seems so awesome with bitterblossom and finks.

The downside of course is that I'm not sure how you ever keep a hand on the draw without a chrome mox.

I love the random awesome cards the japanese give magic. Ever since i started playing magic seriously, around Ravnica/Kamigawa block, they just innovate all the time. This i think is another example. Their metagame may be different sure, but i just love the card choices.

[Loxodon Baileyarch]

@Sims: I really like the midranged idea with Sarkhan Vol, like alot haha. I've wanted to change this deck to midrange a few times playtesting with it, i've just never gotten around to it, and plus i just like aggro more.

Everyone keeps suggesting the Jund Charm, so i'm definitely gonna test it as a two or three of. I also like the inclusion of Tinstreet Hulligan in the main. I've never really thought of him.

I have so many cards to test haha >.<

[arcboundravager2]

this may just be me thinking it but do you have a postive matchup against combo? and does your deck lose to EE at 2? it seem that rotting giant is extremely weak in your deck. maybe there should be a 3cc bomb here. maybe tombstalker or maybe countryside crusher. you have a low curve and he ensures you see removal or a spell. i think he may be good

[Loxodon Baileyarch]

this may just be me thinking it but do you have a postive matchup against combo? and does your deck lose to EE at 2? it seem that rotting giant is extremely weak in your deck. maybe there should be a 3cc bomb here. maybe tombstalker or maybe countryside crusher. you have a low curve and he ensures you see removal or a spell. i think he may be good

Rotting Giant isn't in the deck anymore. And Academy Ruins plus EE sucks, but i can win through just a two or three for one. I just rebuilt this newer version and have been playtesting on MWS alot. I added two 3cc creatures in the form of Burning Tree Shaman. I also added Mirri's Guile, i'm eventually gonna get around to trying Sylvan Library too but it's just been great so far. Also i added a Volrath's Stronghold for my late game. I don't have the time now but i'll post a list when i can.

[Loxodon Baileyarch]

this may just be me thinking it but do you have a postive matchup against combo?

Not really at all. I like to look at it like goyf sligh, or just a basic aggro deck in general. Like you usually lose to combo unless you can either A)race them, or B)have awesome sideboard tech, which i really dont have haha.

Combo decks play in my meta, but i usually dont see em, and if i do it's Belcher with Empty combo, and i can win against the Empty tokens fairly easy given a good enough hand.

[Loxodon Baileyarch]

I've been testing this out alot. I love Volrath's Stronghold. Adding the 22nd land worked out for me. I wanted to run SDT, but i run BTS, so i didn't want to take damage from it, so Mirri's Guile came in. This is just my weird tweak testing version.

4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Badlands
4 Taiga
2 Mountain
2 Bayou
1 Swamp
1 Volrath's Stronghold

4 Dark Confidant
3 Mogg Fanatic
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Burning Tree Shaman
1 Tombstalker

3 Mirri's Guile
4 Terminate
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Chain Lightning
4 Thoughtseize
4 Smother

Side Board:
4 Krosan Grip
4 Choke
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Engineered Plague

Thoughts?????