[Article] Unlocking Legacy - Assessing Legacy for Grand Prix: Chicago

[MattH]

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/16772_Unlocking_Legacy_Assessing_Legacy_for_Grand_Prix_Chicago.html

Coppola's latest.

[MattH]

cross-posted from Starcity

Oh lawdy, where to begin:


Wizards has just announced GP: Chicago, scheduled for March 7, which will be the fourth Legacy event at the Pro Tour level ever.
GPs are not PTs. At a PT, every single round, you'll be playing against a Pro (by definition). Not so at a GP.


The last time the pros had to take a serious look at Legacy was for Lille, which was three years ago already.
How quickly we forget the world champs' legacy portion.


Legacy can be mostly characterized by the lack of any overpowered cards
Uh, by what standards?


Legacy rewards intelligent play from the first turn of the game.
You don't say! Good thing this doesn't happen in other formats!


Strategic thinking is one of the most important skills in this format, and therefore it is vital that you are experienced with all the ways your deck can beat other decks. The manner in which you compete over resources and attack your opponent’s life total is far more important than the cards that you use to do it.
O ho, more insight! Have you made a compact with the Devil, good sir, to arrive at this penetrating analysis?


What a useless article. The whole thing is either a personal vendetta against the fading memories of PT Columbus, or decklists we've seen before, many in this very column, with stale summaries long since passed into common knowledge.

[mercenarybdu]

The article was great, but some of the facts were off as pointed out above.

Anyway, the article was all about getting the PTQ idiots up to speed of what the format is right now prior to the last three events (Columbus, 2007 Championships, and Worlds 2007).

Legacy as nearly everyone knows, was turned to a blind eye again by Wizards as seen visibily thoughout Wizards mtg coverage pages.

Yet it is still being turned to a blind eye as you could see by the number of GPs the community is gaining a hold of for the season. Where is the European Legacy GPs? Where is the APAC Legacy GP? Where is the Dubai GP?

If the problem is not there, then I have to say that Wizards is doing some horrible reaserch on their part to give those regions their Legacy GPs. How else would they produce such results?

[yankeedave]

"Every time MercenaryBDU posts, I want to cut my eyes out."

-Nightmare

*Hands Nightmare the dull wooden spoon*

I liked the article, it was nothing new or exciting or groundbreaking, but it killed 5 mins at work, when I should have been working. At least it has Skive Value :)

[Mordel]

The article is pretty good for sort of introducing people to the format. I like that a lot because 1.5 needs to see some more attention since most other formats seems to suck right now (imo obviously). I am really stoked about a good sort of crashcourse article on the format. The legacy articles will generally only see scorn anyway, so they might as well be based around explaining the format to people in the same way that many mtg.com articles do for extended. Get people interested, that's what I think.

I am also happy that he didn't put a white stax list up (it isn't a dtb anyway, but still) because I hate playing the mirror on mws so much.

Maybe random people on the m-l channel will play challenging matches for me to test against.

[URABAHN]

I thought we were at the point where we didn't need another "Intro to Legacy" Article. Not only does the article not cover anything new, I feel like I'm being talked down to.

"Here's an aggro deck. This is what it does, mmmkay?"

"Here's a control deck. This is what it does, mmmkay?"

"This is what we call an aggro-control deck. It's part aggro and part control!"

It reminds me of Government class in High School when we had to read newspaper and magazine articles and write an essay on the subject matter. I'd quote the writer, write about what they were trying to say, quote the writer, write about it, quote the writer, write about it, etc. That was, and still is, terrible writing.

I don't know what it is about Legacy that warrants articles Introducing...the Format like some kind of debutante at her coming out party. I can understand why people would want to do it when Legacy was new, but that was several years ago.

[Afro]

Legacy as nearly everyone knows, was turned to a blind eye again by Wizards as seen visibly throughout Wizards mtg coverage pages.

Wizards does not have 20 some people covering every PT for their site. Why do you expect them to cover a 50 person side event for some dual lands? Would having them post the top8 decklists be nice? Of course, but realize that a lot of times Wizards themselves are not running the side events, the local TO or booth vendor is. I'm sure they just toss the damn decklists once the tournament has finished. Wizards posts T2 and other grinder/last chance qualifier decklists because they are running them and/or they pertain to the format(s) that is being played that weekend in the main event or to help out FNM or PTQ players. After all these are the people that actually buy new product and keep Magic going.


Yet it is still being turned to a blind eye as you could see by the number of GPs the community is gaining a hold of for the season. Where is the European Legacy GPs? Where is the APAC Legacy GP? Where is the Dubai GP?

Jesus Christ dude! Do you really expect Wizards to fucking make roughly twenty percent of their GPs Legacy? I want what your smoking.


If the problem is not there, then I have to say that Wizards is doing some horrible research on their part to give those regions their Legacy GPs.

Yes, Europe loves them some Legacy. We know it and I am positive that Wizards knows it. However I'm guessing that with everything taken into account, it figures to be cheaper to have a Legacy GP in the US.

Basically what I am trying to get through your head is to be happy to get even one Legacy GP every couple of years. It makes ZERO sense IMO for Wizards to host these over Extended but they do it to throw our community a bone. Be grateful and stop bitching about it in every thread you post on the damn site. I actually appreciate what you do for the format even if others on this site don't. I have watched all of your YouTube videos even though I know as much or more on the topics you are talking about.

I know I am coming off as an asshole but that is because you are making the entire Legacy community look like a bunch of whiners when we have no reason to complain. We are finally getting that stench off us from when the lists were separated.

[Hoojo]

I read this expecting some insight into strategies against each deck. He specifically says that even efficient decks have weaknesses. I gained nothing from this article, and I don't think non-legacy players would gain anything more than what they could find on deckcheck.net or here. Just lists and too brief descriptions. Also, would Templar Goblins be considered the de facto Goblins deck?

Something that I've been scouring for lately is some concise discussion on what people should expect at GP Chicago in the popular archtypes, particularly from the non-legacy centric. The discussion about Jank decks was tipping the iceberg; there is a good chance many tournament attendees are not going to face the Deck to Beat forum verbatim on day one. Even something along the lines of popular Extended ports that people should look out for and make sure their sideboard strategies, while not being specifically designed to fight these decks, have overlapping uses.

[Shriekmaw]

Just lists and too brief descriptions. Also, would Templar Goblins be considered the de facto Goblins deck?




The Templar Goblins list should not be the model to follow. I strongly believe the 3 color version is the best version of the deck. It will also be the best version when it comes to the GP, since you will have to find ways to deal with engineered plague since it will be all over the place. Everyone knows goblins will show up in numbers at the GP since its still a very good deck if not the best deck in the format.

I thought some of the lists that were choosen to represent decks, were poor to say the least. There was no mention of Canadian Threhold, Survival, EPIC Painter, or TES.

The combo decks that were listed even though they did well in tournaments, were awful when you looked at the cards that were used in the lists. I would only guess that the players did not understand what the optimal cards should be in combo decks in this format.

[jazzykat]

Actually given the timing of the announcement I thought that the article was timely if not for almost every month another "metagame in review" or this is a storm deck and here are a bunch of lists, or this is a deck that looks good but I haven't really tested, etc.

Starcitygames articles are what they are, I honestly can't do any better so I won't complain anymore and I sure am not going to waste the 2 minutes it takes to read them, or 5 to bitch about them any more.

My last take on these things: Include in depth analysis and things we don't know or don't expect a positive review from us. If you are on here, then you probably already have a decent idea of the metagame, or know how deck X works in theory. Tell us things we don't know like subtle interactions, or what people are going to bring in against you, and how you may want to sideboard. I understand that writers may not give us their GP tech or their bomby new deck until after it but think about your audience and if it isn't us, then just say it.

[mercenarybdu]

Wizards does not have 20 some people covering every PT for their site. Why do you expect them to cover a 50 person side event for some dual lands? Would having them post the top8 decklists be nice? Of course, but realize that a lot of times Wizards themselves are not running the side events, the local TO or booth vendor is. I'm sure they just toss the damn decklists once the tournament has finished. Wizards posts T2 and other grinder/last chance qualifier decklists because they are running them and/or they pertain to the format(s) that is being played that weekend in the main event or to help out FNM or PTQ players. After all these are the people that actually buy new product and keep Magic going.



Jesus Christ dude! Do you really expect Wizards to fucking make roughly twenty percent of their GPs Legacy? I want what your smoking.



Yes, Europe loves them some Legacy. We know it and I am positive that Wizards knows it. However I'm guessing that with everything taken into account, it figures to be cheaper to have a Legacy GP in the US.

Basically what I am trying to get through your head is to be happy to get even one Legacy GP every couple of years. It makes ZERO sense IMO for Wizards to host these over Extended but they do it to throw our community a bone. Be grateful and stop bitching about it in every thread you post on the damn site. I actually appreciate what you do for the format even if others on this site don't. I have watched all of your YouTube videos even though I know as much or more on the topics you are talking about.

I know I am coming off as an asshole but that is because you are making the entire Legacy community look like a bunch of whiners when we have no reason to complain. We are finally getting that stench off us from when the lists were separated.

Why don't you try doing advocating or doing some criticizing a company for their actions? people will tell you the same thing you are telling me.

Those who speak up to say there is something wrong are the ones who are bound to get what they want the vast majority of times.

[Forbiddian]

Those who speak up to say there is something wrong are the ones who are bound to get what they want the vast majority of times.

That, or, be really wrong the vast majority of times.

[Mordel]

I really don't expect a lot from freebie articles to be honest. I would rather see someone rehashing things the community already knows than see an article about a shitty deck scrubbing out at a tourney that the author doesn't remember very well or a shitty deck that is entirely based on theory with no real match overviews given.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I am also annoyed by the endless stream of Intro to Legacy articles, although in the context of the GP announcement I'll let it slide. Plus this is actually the most up-to-date version of said article trope we've seen at the present time, and is fairly well written.

Although the lack of Mighty Quinn is disappointing.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Tsk, tsk.

[Snip. :| - Bardo]
[And a Warning for Flaming. Read this (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11898) if you haven't already. - NC]

The article was fairly lackluster, but an intro article, or a series of intro articles, makes sense leading into the first real GP since Lille.

And no, World's doesn't count. Every report I've read from people who went to "World Championships" is about how horrible the competition was.

[Mayk0l]

I don't get the Ichorid list.

The guy's cut a land, which we're already short on, and adds a total of 2 CMC1 cards to the Maindeck (3 CS while cutting a PImp, sure, he adds blue spells that can be cast off of all lands, but still, 11 seems like really stretching it). He runs only three Putrid Imp, a card that's proven to be so powerful. Then he runs three DR targets, an Angel that seems pointless and a River Kelpie that's completely win more.
Finally the blatant lack of Unmask hurts my eyes.

Did this deck do anything? If so, can someone link me a top8 and his MUs?
I'd like some more background on this build, I don't get it, is it just me?

[Parcher]

To be fair, I asked Chris about the same thing. He said he used decks that were in the genre he wanted that had most recently won tournaments, regardless of the list.

He said since he was only intimately familiar with three of the archetypes, that he went with what had won most recently to the printing of the article. No comment on their viability, just current results were used in choice.

[DalkonCledwin]

To be fair, I asked Chris about the same thing. He said he used decks that were in the genre he wanted that had most recently won tournaments, regardless of the list.

He said since he was only intimately familiar with three of the archetypes, that he went with what had won most recently to the printing of the article. No comment on their viability, just current results were used in choice.

seems a really bad method for choosing decks for an article...

[Volt]

Peace on Earth, people. Peace on Earth.

I thought it was a very good article.

[FoolofaTook]

The article is a fail for having MUC and no Dreadstill. One of those decks is both a defining deck of the archetype at the moment and also one of the big favorites to win in Chicago.

[idraleo]

The article is a fail for having MUC and no Dreadstill. One of those decks is both a defining deck of the archetype at the moment and also one of the big favorites to win in Chicago.

No man, Templar Goblin is the way to go to win in Chicago.




Epic Phail ever

[FoolofaTook]

No man, Templar Goblin is the way to go to win in Chicago.




Epic Phail ever

The point is that MUC doesn't see enough play at a high level to be a reference point for where the Legacy meta is right now. Dreadstill on the other hand is present at virtually every mid to large sized event and wins a fair number of them.

Dreadstill *is* the closest thing we have to effective MUC in Legacy at the moment.