[Deck] U/W Fishstill

[Ragnork]

U/W Fishstill is supposed to be a combination of my favorite classic aggro-control deck, Fish, and the extremely powerful card Standstill. First, the current, slightly tested deck list:

Lands x18:
Tundra x4
Island x3
Plains x3
Flooded Strand x4
Mishra's Factory x2
Polluted Delta x2

Creatures: 17
Cloud of Faeries x3
Mother of Runes x2
Isamaru, Hound of Konda x2
Meddling Mage x3
Serra Avenger x3
Looter il-kor x4

Utility: x11
Umezawa's Jitte x3
Aether Vial x4
Standstill x4

Permission and Cantrip:
Brainstorm x4
Force of Will x4
Counterspell x3
Spell Snag x3

Sideboard:
Disenchant x3
Echoing Truth x4
Silver Knight x2
Engineered Explosives x3
Seal of Cleansing x3

The deck focuses quite a bit on the synergy of Aether vial and Standstill. A turn one Aether Vial, followed by a turn two Standstill is a pretty great start. Getting in an early threat before a standstill works well too, and Fish provides the aggro aspect with good, cheap creatures.

I've found looter il-kor to be invaluable, and it was not long after including him at all that he became a 4-of. Is a great way of finding a jitte, and carrying it. Cloud of Faeries is a tentative inclusion, I like it because of the tempo and the flying, and have found the cycling pretty useful at times. The mother of runes is a great 1-drop, and if dropped at EoT by a vial can be perfect for chumping a goyf all day long.

Isamaru and Serra Avenger are just great quick beats, and can get in for lethal in no time at all, especially carrying a Jitte. Meddling Mage is a solid 2/2, and absolutely murders so many MUs that he's an automatic inclusion for me.

The permission cards are somewhat odd because they don't include Daze. This deck needs turns one and two to be very powerful, and missing a land drop can really hurt that, especially on turn two. It's a great counter, but I like Spell Snare for early/mid game better, and counterspell for mid/late game. FoW is an obvious 4-of, as well as Brainstorm.

I'm open to any criticism, especially on the sideboard (which needs a lot of work). If you think I'm retarded for not running tarmagoyf and need to splash green, let me know. Thanks for checking it out.

[eq.firemind]

Man, you REALLY need 3xJotun Grunt. He is fat, cheap, and he eats tarmo.

[AngryTroll]

Daze really helps you stick that turn two Standstill and the turn one Vial, so I think I'd give it another hard look.

The creature base looks rather random; you have a mix of some of the strongest utility cards available (Mother of Runes, Meddling Mage), next to some of the most efficient beaters available (Isamary, Serra Avenger). The two Isamaru really jump out at me as awkward. I like the Jotun Grunt suggestion, and I'd like to see some more Mother of Runes.

Looks like fun, and the synergy between Aether Vial, Serra Avenger, Cloud of Faeries, and Meddling Mage seems pretty strong.

[_erbs_]

Im have no exprience in fihs type decks, but can fish do with out Swords to Plowshares ?

Is Sage of Epythir not good in a fish deck ?

[Nihil Credo]

I'd give Wake Thrasher a try. Although he's terrible on defence, he's easily the quickest finisher available to a straight U/W deck (except for Phyrexian Dreadnought).

[Ragnork]

Im have no exprience in fihs type decks, but can fish do with out Swords to Plowshares ?

Is Sage of Epythir not good in a fish deck ?

Woh, I completely missed that somehow in editing and changing this deck I lost the StP. That is not good. They're an auto-inclusion in a white deck imo, absolutely need to be in this one.

I don't really like Sage, it does barely anything once it's down, although the ability is nice. I don't really have anything I'd cut for it though.


Daze really helps you stick that turn two Standstill and the turn one Vial, so I think I'd give it another hard look.

The creature base looks rather random; you have a mix of some of the strongest utility cards available (Mother of Runes, Meddling Mage), next to some of the most efficient beaters available (Isamary, Serra Avenger). The two Isamaru really jump out at me as awkward. I like the Jotun Grunt suggestion, and I'd like to see some more Mother of Runes.

Looks like fun, and the synergy between Aether Vial, Serra Avenger, Cloud of Faeries, and Meddling Mage seems pretty strong.

The Isamaru are at two mostly because I needed to cut something, and 3 of a legendary seemed like the easiest thing to go. I shied away from Jotun Grunt just because it got poopoo'd in the older UWb Fish deck, I should probably give it a try before not running it though.

The creature mix is intentional, and it seems that it's fairly standard for a fish deck. I wouldn't want to be running all utility or all aggro creatures, I find the balance works.

[4eak]

@ Ragnork

U/W Fish is a classic. It is also the epitome of what I consider to be "metagaming in action", because the deck is always evolving with the format, and is usually considered viable only when it can actually answer a metagame.

I'm just curious, what is your metagame? Usually Fish, in large part, is concerned with mana-disruption and permission strategies to defeat combo-heavy and sometimes pure-control metagames. If you play against a ton of ANT, I could see why you would want to play Fish (although, I consider Threshold and Dreadstill to be closer to Fish than GAT, and those seem like better versions of Fish). U/W fish is generally played in a metagame with limited swarming aggro decks as well, and that would be a rare thing to find in Legacy I think.

As you permitted me to ask in your post, what do you think U/W Fish can offer that Dreadstill or Threshold cannot offer? Goyf and Dreadnought are much faster clocks, and the disruption provided by dreadstill is stronger.

I'm not exactly sure why you are playing white. The two huge things white has to offer is StP and Meddling Mage. Unfortunately, where MM deserves mainboard playtime, StP may not.

White weakens your mana-base, and in some ways it forces you to play Brainstorm. While I have a hard-on for brainstorm, I have to admit that it isn't nearly as strong in decks that play 16-20x creatures with Aether Vial. You need redundancy in this deck, not Brainstorm. You need to be guaranteed to drop mini-bombs in the first few turns without being forced to dig for it or for the mana to cast it.

Additionally, a weaker mana-base can prevent you from running the all important mana-denial elements that belong in fish. Stifle and Wasteland belong in the deck, and since you want to play Vial and many creatures, it is difficult to build a proper mana-base.

If I was going to build your Vial U/W Fishstill deck, attempting to maximize mana-denial and permission against combo-heavy and pure-control metagames (which is the only place I can see U/W Fish being a better choice than our current alternatives), it would probably look like:


Creatures: 17
2 Cloud of Faeries
4 Cursecatcher
4 Spiketail Hatchling
4 Meddling Mage
3 Ethersworn Canonist

Control: 12
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle

Power-Junk: 11
4 Standstill
4 Aether Vial
3 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands: 20
3 Island
1 Plains
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland


This is the bare minimum number of creatures you can play alongside Vial. I tested with just 3 Vial, but frankly, I wanted to see it every single game. You'll also notice that the creatures are all about controlling the stack, and is the best chance U/W would have of being a better choice than alternatives like Dreadstill or Threshold. Again, I don't see U/W Fish working outside a combo-heavy metagame.

If you didn't go for stack control, then you need to go straight beatdown because you can't afford to fudge on your role (I know you don't like this, but it is the truth...). Creatures need to be straight up nasty aggro pieces or they need to have control over the stack. A mix is not going to cut it. Unfortunately, I don't think U/W could possibly compete with Goyf/Nought/Goose based strategies. If I had to make an aggro Fish deck, here is what I'd play (unlike the above list, this one is untested):


Creatures: 18
2 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 Flying Men
4 Cloud of Faeries
3 Serra Avenger
3 Jotun Grunt
2 Wake Thrasher

Control: 11
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Stifle

Power-Junk: 11
4 Standstill
4 Aether Vial (here is where StP belongs)
3 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands: 20
2 Island
2 Plains
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland



peace,
4eak

[_erbs_]

Ive tested this list for a short period of time, it ran well but don't know if its tournament material.

Lands
4 Flooded strand
3 Wasteland
4 Tundra
5 Island
3 Plains
19

Utility
4 Aether Vial
3 Standstill
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Stifle
2 Trickbind
3 Umezawa's Jitte
20

Beats
3 Serendib Efreet
3 Devout Witness
3 Serra Avenger
3 Pride of the Clouds
2 Jotun Grunt
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Flying Men
21

SB
4 Tormods Crypt
4 Meddling Mage
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
15