[Deck] équipe d'Europe

[Shimster]

To make it clear: I know there's Team America, as well as I know that there's a deck called Dread Stalker. I created this deck without knowing them by trying to merge Suicide and Tempo Threshold into one deck. I nick the name though because it sounds quite nice in French.

Some weeks ago, I started to test UG Threshold in favor of Canadian Threshold. While I like disrupting my opponent, I really dislike bad manabases (such as Thrashs). As I play Suicide style decks in Vintage, I missed the raw power of Sinkhole and Duress, which work really well in combination with Daze.

The cards I considered as staples are:

4 Wasteland
- both decks

4 Duress
4 Dark Confidant
4 Hymn to Tourach (have been put into the SB in favour of a stable manabase)
4 Sinkhole
4 Tombstalker
- Suicide

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Stifle
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
- Thrash

No Tarmogoyf because of money issues *.

* And because it would become Team America then.

Altogether:

// Lands
4 Wasteland

// Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tombstalker

// Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Duress
4 Ponder
4 Stifle
4 Daze
4 Sinkhole
4 Force of Will

I worked some time figuring out how a stable manabase has to look like. In the end, I came to the conclusion that 4 basic lands have to be enough:

4 Underground Sea
3 Swamp
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Flooded Strand

Those of you who are capable of adding 4 offs might have noticed that my list is missing four cards. Although I've read through the Team America and Dreadstalker threads, I'm not convinced of either possibilities.

I currently testing: Spell Snares, a split between Ghastly Demise and either Smother or Diabolic Edict, Sower of Temptation and Extirpate.

At the moment, I like 2 Spell Snares + 2 Sower of Temptation most.

My sideboard looks like:

4 Tormod's Crypt (> Relic because of Tombstalker)
4 Hydroblast (> Blue Elemental Blast because of Tombstalker)
4 Hymn to Tourach (against combo)
2 Imperial Edict
1 Cruel Edict

So, is this any good? I know it looks a lot like the decks I referred to in the beginning, but I didn't want to post in either thread because of the more or less imporant differences (UB manabase without Phyrexian Dreadnought).

I'd like you to discuss now. :wink:

[TheLion]

4 Dark Confidant + 4 Tombstalker = bad.

The question, if it is good is quite self-explanatory. I mean this deck looks a lot like other proven decks. If you exchange like 4 cards, it doesn't automatically get bad.
Unfortunately it's only "yet-another-staples-only"-Deck, which is a merge of two other decks, just like Team America.

[Jaiminho]

4 Dark Confidant
4 Tombstalker
- Suicide

This really is self explanatory.

[Nihil Credo]

Occasionally taking 8 from Tombstalker, and making Snuff Out near-impossible to run, is perhaps less of an issue for Dark Confidant than only beating for two.

Sea Drake works better than Confidant in this deck. It's the best cheap one-card win condition in U/B after Tombstalker. Also, Thoughtseize.

Yes, I know, it's expensive. But if the entire raison d'être for this deck is the monetary cost, it should be in the appropriate forum.

[DalkonCledwin]

if you can afford Sinkhole's you can afford tarmogoyfs or sea drake's...

Regardless I am not to fond of the mana base, it seems exceedingly fragile....

[xsockmonkeyx]

if you can afford Sinkhole's you can afford tarmogoyfs or sea drake's...

Not necessarily. Sometimes people just happen to have sets of certain cards, such as returning players. For example that guy in the [Help]ing the kids thread had a set of FoW's.

Anyway, maybe you should look at Shadowmage Infiltrator in the Confidant slot. Not sure how much the -1 offense offsets the life loss of Confi, but it might work. Also ups the blue card count for Force of Will I guess.

I am working on a similar deck basically out of dissatisfaction with Goyf in TA. Not that he was bad, I just wanted to try a slightly more stable manabase. Incidentally I used Sea Drake in the goyf slot as has been suggested. I havent done enough testing to say anything conclusive, but the list looks like this:

3 Mire
2 Strand
4 Delta
4 Sea
1 Island
1 Swamp

4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Snuff Out
3 Unmask
4 Thoughtseize

3 Sinkhole
4 Stifle
4 Wasteland

4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder

4 Tombstalker
4 Sea Drake

I thought Unmask was pretty good when I got to play it, but it's a pet card of mine, so I dont trust myself on that one 100%.

[Happy Gilmore]

Not necessarily. Sometimes people just happen to have sets of certain cards, such as returning players. For example that guy in the [Help]ing the kids thread had a set of FoW's.

Anyway, maybe you should look at Shadowmage Infiltrator in the Confidant slot. Not sure how much the -1 offense offsets the life loss of Confi, but it might work. Also ups the blue card count for Force of Will I guess.

I am working on a similar deck basically out of dissatisfaction with Goyf in TA. Not that he was bad, I just wanted to try a slightly more stable manabase. Incidentally I used Sea Drake in the goyf slot as has been suggested. I havent done enough testing to say anything conclusive, but the list looks like this:

3 Mire
2 Strand
4 Delta
4 Sea
1 Island
1 Swamp



you talk about TA having and unstable manabase yet your list has fewer mana sources of each color and is only 2 colors:

TA:
15 U
14 B
12 G

Yours:
14 U
14 B
0 green

I dont get it.

[xsockmonkeyx]

2 colors vs. 3? Also basic lands. Mana coverage ≠ stability.

No need for the harsh tone man, its a work in progress.

[Happy Gilmore]

Sorry if it came off that way but my point is still valid. The best way to fight a Wasteland style deck is to change the paradime. Make a manabase so stable that it only cares how many colored sources it has rather than which ones. A basic land is great and all. It will allow you to play the second land, but the next land is probably going to be vulnerable to wastland, and you are still left with just one of your colors on the board. In a deck playing Sinkhole/counterspell/counterbalance, or other double colored spells, having a first turn dual is extremely important. If your talking about a straightcomparison between the two deck's manabases TA is still more stable because it has more colored sources of each color. and has a greater ability to play the double colored spells like Stalker/Sinkhole.

Basics are truely only a valid answer to moon affects, and to be honest I doubt very much that Dragon Stompy is a real consideration in most metagmes.

[Forbiddian]

Sorry if it came off that way but my point is still valid. The best way to fight a Wasteland style deck is to change the paradime. Make a manabase so stable that it only cares how many colored sources it has rather than which ones. A basic land is great and all. It will allow you to play the second land, but the next land is probably going to be vulnerable to wastland, and you are still left with just one of your colors on the board. In a deck playing Sinkhole/counterspell/counterbalance, or other double colored spells, having a first turn dual is extremely important. If your talking about a straightcomparison between the two deck's manabases TA is still more stable because it has more colored sources of each color. and has a greater ability to play the double colored spells like Stalker/Sinkhole.

Basics are truely only a valid answer to moon affects, and to be honest I doubt very much that Dragon Stompy is a real consideration in most metagmes.

That's true for a 3 color deck. A 2 color deck can often get by just on basics and just ignore Wasteland threats. He only runs Sinkhole and Tombstalker in the double categories (and Force of Will if you count that). Fetching Island, Swamp, Swamp lets him play his whole deck with immunity to WL.

Although I find it questionable that his reason for switching to UB is mana base issues and yet he runs 16 land only.


As another aside, it seems to be more of a budget Team America than a completely different archetype. I generally try to see the merits of each deck, but this is budget TA. In other words, if you could afford Goyfs, Bayous, Tropical Islands, you'd play Team America.

I could understand a budget deck having to make some cuts in terms of card quality, but this deck has to be at least 400. It runs 4 Deltas, 4 Seas (that alone is 200).

"Budget" decks are like <100 dollars, and they make some serious cuts (see the budget thread). I think that around 4x the upper limit of budget, you should simply stop playing inferior "budget" decks and start maximize some archetype.

[Loxodon Baileyarch]

You literally have 4 threats.

That=bad

[Shimster]

Come on guys, it's like none of you (apart from xsockmonkeyx) has read the introductory sentence, although I've italicised it.

This is neither supposed to be budget TA, nor is it going to be Dreadstalker without Dreadnoughts. My approach wasn't like "Hey, let me see what I can cut to make TA playable with my card pool".

This is N&D for a reason: I simply could have made a thread dealing with the merge of Sui and Tempo Thresh. But as far as I know you ignoramuses by now, I really shouldn't have. Because a lot of you would have advised me to play Team America ON THE SPOT.

So, Happy Gilmore and Loxodon Baileyarch (as placeholders for all of those naysayers around *), suggest a deck using this package of disruption plus Tombstalker and Dark Confidant, without making it budget TA **, please.

* This isn't meant to be offensive, I'm just reasoning facts.

** 4 basics at least, I don't want to lose to Blood Moon and his retarded brother. Well, I don't want to die to Price of Progress, either.

Thank you

[xsockmonkeyx]

Come on guys, it's like none of you (apart from xsockmonkeyx) has read the introductory sentence, although I've italicised it.

Rule #1 of Source posting is to respond before reading the thread (or the card, or the rules, etc.)