[Article] Unlocking Legacy - Solidarity and Spring Tide: The Best of Both Decks

[GreenOne]

Describing High Tide decks and especially the evolution of Spring Tide into Permanent Waves, with sample hands and a brief matchup analysis.

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/16837_Unlocking_Legacy_Solidarity_and_Spring_Tide_The_Best_of_Both_Decks.html

[Cabal-kun]

Very good read. Will read again. A+

[nitewolf9]

This article was very well structured and a good read about a deck that most people don't even know exists. Nice work, Anwar.

[Bryant Cook]

It was an enjoyable read, however, I feel it's outdated.

[socialite]

It was an enjoyable read, however, I feel it's outdated.

I agree it was very well written.

Turn 4 combo decks just feel to slow for the format at the moment, not to mention it pretty much bends over to Counterbalance-Top/Chalice.

[quicksilver]

It was an enjoyable read, however, I feel it's outdated.

QFT

[Deep6er]

I thought it was pretty good, but I don't think it was dated. I think that it's easy to feel that way because of the Solidarity references, but I think that Spring Tide's included plan to answer Counterbalance gives it a significantly more modern approach than others in the past.

Not that I approve of that plan. I tried it in Solidarity and found it unsatisfactory at best. All I'm saying is that it addresses the weakness and lays out groundwork for a plan that is adaptable should circumstances declare it to be so.

I liked it.

[jazzykat]

A good article! I'm glad to see someone is still writing them. Good job on keeping assinine claims out of your column, good job on factual content, good job overall!!!!!! This would be an example of how not to suck.

Sorry for being so ecstatic but after the last few articles...I was really going to stop reading UL columns. Anwar has brought hope back for me.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Very fun read. I love deck creation articles myself. I feel like I would enjoy playing this deck. And I do love finding a reason to abuse Ideas Unbound. 8/10.

[Anusien]

I really think you need to do a better job in the article of addressing why anyone would want to play this deck. Sure it's cute and uses Mind over Matter and Candelabra of Tawnos, but why would you want to play it over A) Reset High Tide with Krosan Grips SB or B) Ad Nauseam Tendrils? The argument sort of comes out that Sorcery High Tide is a turn faster but less consistent. Still I think you need to make the comparisons head on and you don't. I'm left thinking "Cute deck, I knew about Candelabra but not Mind over Matter, but what's the point?"

[Lejay]

I remember finding that the only real advantage of springtide on solidarity was a regular turn 3 goldfish by the time I was testing both decks. Your version looks like a turn 4 combo deck, so i have to agree on anusien. Why play it over solidarity or a tendrills deck ?

[Eldariel]

I never really liked Permanent Waves simply because the "evolution" didn't feel much of an evolution; that is, it doesn't feel notably better than Spring Tide (heck, it needs more lands to work), nor Solidarity (which has the advantage of at least being able to play control-role until it wins through stack control), and it's vulnerable to Pithing Needle to boot, making another common hate-card relevant against you. Not only that, but Krosan Grip is very efficient against the engine. It just feels like Permanent Waves is more vulnerable to hate than either Spring Tide or Solidarity, while being slower than Spring Tide (which at least is claimed to win turn 3) and lacking the instant nature of Solidarity.

I feel the article should've spent more time addressing why Permanent Waves is better than either Solidarity or Spring Tide; why the Candelabra/Mind Over Matter-engine is superior to Cloud/Snap or Reset, and why this deck is superior to Tendrils-combo in the format.

[Forbiddian]

Solidarity's main advantage was that it could wait until the last possible second. It would NEVER have to go off prematurely, so any slip ups of the opponent's deck directly gave it more draws and more time to sculpt a winning hand.

In the hands of a good player, it almost never fizzles except against the fastest decks, and it's very resilient to hardcast disruption like Meddling Mage, Teeg, and Counterbalance. At the very least you can panic and try to go off and see what lady luck can give you. Counterbalance? In response to Counterbalance, get a 30% chance to win. The fact that it always gets a 30% chance to win, even when its opponent gets the hate is what makes Solidarity good.

With any sorcery speed combo deck, especially one that leaves so much to chance (if your Impulse and Meditate don't hit gold, you just lose), guessing when your opponent will have lethal or a Meddling Mage cast makes your life much, much harder. If they surprise you with Counterbalance, you lose (or have to dig an answer, and splashing for answers leaves you vulnerable to Stifle).


In order for Permanent Waves to be better than Solidarity, it needs to be at least a full turn faster with the same chance of fizzling and the same resistance to disruption. You shouldn't test the matchups or anything else, you should just look at the goldfish of both. If Solidarity can do on its opponent's turn 4 what your deck does on turn 3, Solidarity is still just better.

I don't think the article adequately addressed how much of an advantage winning in response to Meddling Mage or Counterbalance or lethal damage is compared to having to guess whether or not you'll live to see your next draw. It's at least a full turn better in my eyes.

Also, Solidarity is immune to all forms of permanent hate (except landkill like Sinkhole). Deed, Swords, Pithing Needle, Chain of Vapor, are all totally dead. I feel with permanents on the board, you leave yourself much more open to disruption. AND Solidarity is probably not competitive anyway. A tiny improvement at the cost of a lot of different weaknesses won't make it into viable deck. I'd say for this to be competitive, it'd have to be around as fast as TES (since it has no advantages over TES like the ability to go off in response or the ability to borrow TES's storm count).

[Happy Gilmore]

Solidarity's main advantage was that it could wait until the last possible second. It would NEVER have to go off prematurely, so any slip ups of the opponent's deck directly gave it more draws and more time to sculpt a winning hand.

In the hands of a good player, it almost never fizzles except against the fastest decks, and it's very resilient to hardcast disruption like Meddling Mage, Teeg, and Counterbalance. At the very least you can panic and try to go off and see what lady luck can give you. Counterbalance? In response to Counterbalance, get a 30% chance to win. The fact that it always gets a 30% chance to win, even when its opponent gets the hate is what makes Solidarity good.

With any sorcery speed combo deck, especially one that leaves so much to chance (if your Impulse and Meditate don't hit gold, you just lose), guessing when your opponent will have lethal or a Meddling Mage cast makes your life much, much harder. If they surprise you with Counterbalance, you lose (or have to dig an answer, and splashing for answers leaves you vulnerable to Stifle).


In order for Permanent Waves to be better than Solidarity, it needs to be at least a full turn faster with the same chance of fizzling and the same resistance to disruption. You shouldn't test the matchups or anything else, you should just look at the goldfish of both. If Solidarity can do on its opponent's turn 4 what your deck does on turn 3, Solidarity is still just better.

I don't think the article adequately addressed how much of an advantage winning in response to Meddling Mage or Counterbalance or lethal damage is compared to having to guess whether or not you'll live to see your next draw. It's at least a full turn better in my eyes.

Also, Solidarity is immune to all forms of permanent hate (except landkill like Sinkhole). Deed, Swords, Pithing Needle, Chain of Vapor, are all totally dead. I feel with permanents on the board, you leave yourself much more open to disruption. AND Solidarity is probably not competitive anyway. A tiny improvement at the cost of a lot of different weaknesses won't make it into viable deck. I'd say for this to be competitive, it'd have to be around as fast as TES (since it has no advantages over TES like the ability to go off in response or the ability to borrow TES's storm count).

Permanent waves IS a good full turn faster if your simply comparing goldfishing. And saying that Solidarity has a turn 4 goldfish is bull shit anyway. I've seen it go off only once in tournament on turn 4 in my entire time playing legacy. I've seen waves go off THROUGH DISRUPTION on turn 4, and that is impressive in my mind.

I have to agree however that more needs to be put into why a deck like waves is a good metagame choice at the moment.

[Pinder]

I think I have to agree with the prevailing sentiment here. It was a nice article, and I always enjoy your writing, but at the end of the day it was basically "here's this deck, but it probably won't beat any of the really good ones". Overall it was an interesting look into new ways to approach High Tide combo, but it doesn't really look like you struck anything that great.

That said, maybe the discussion spurred by the article will lead somewhere. Who knows? Either way, nice article, good read.

[Brad Herbig]

I like this article. I too feel that it may be a bit outdated, but the structure of history, choice, and sample games, I like in an article.

[Deep6er]

@Dominic: You've been there or, at the very least, heard about all the times I've won on turn four with Solidarity. That deck had an eighty percent turn four win with no disruption from the opponent. For you to believe that the deck doesn't win on turn four is to have ignored everything I've ever stated about the deck.

@Everyone else: One of the strong points is that the deck can play Force, but also has methods of finding it. Methods that are superior to Solidarity's. Ponder is much stronger in Permanent Waves than it is in Solidarity (what with that whole being a Sorcery thing), and Merchant Scroll is capable of finding Force of Will too. Additionally, the fact that those cards can find Cunning Wish to preemptively answer (kind of) a Counterbalance is another point in it's favor.

It definitely feels to me that you're being too narrow about the applications that the deck has, and the avenues that the deck can pursue in the face of disruption.

Removed condescending comments. Keep it civil -J

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Permanent waves IS a good full turn faster if your simply comparing goldfishing.

It was made explicitly clear that no one was doing this, so by bringing it up you seem simply to be trying to confuse the issue.


And saying that Solidarity has a turn 4 goldfish is bull shit anyway. I've seen it go off only once in tournament on turn 4 in my entire time playing legacy.

Then you must be rather new to Legacy. This would explain certain things.

[Giles]

Much better from your Ichorid article :)

You never really went into dealing with discard stragies. Since that can become really big damper in Mono blue combo day.

[rockout]

Well written article. I want to buy more articles like that.

[Obfuscate Freely]

It's important to realize that when Solidarity wins "on turn four," that implies passing the turn, and going off on the opponent's turn. This means the opponent always gets his/her next untap step, draw, and sometimes an attack (if Solidarity can't Turnabout or Stroke). Permanent Waves, on the other hand, goes off on its own turn, so the opponent will be decked (often dead by Stroke) before untapping. So, Waves is functionally faster.

Permanent Waves also enjoys access to several powerful sorceries that improve its resilience to disruption. Merchant Scroll and Ideas Unbound, along with the deck's ability to generate more mana than Solidarity, make the deck more capable of going off with fewer cards in hand.

So, I think the deck has clear advantages over Solidarity, although it certainly has disadvantages, as well. Overall, I think Waves is better right now, mostly because it has more powerful spells and because it has more reliable access to those spells. It also has better access to its sideboard cards, which helps immensely in dealing with Counterbalance.

The article was great, Anwar. It provided factual information about an interesting deck, as well as the insight of someone who has been working on that deck for a good amount of time. On top of that, the article was written in a pleasant and approachable tone, with a refreshing absence of ridiculous hyperbole and format-disparaging remarks.

[AnwarA101]

If the article sounds a bit dated, its because High Tide combo is not revolutionary but rather evolutionary. Permanent Waves started with Spring Tide and borrowed some aspects from Solidarity. It really cannot be discussed properly without first making a reference to the decks from which it comes from.

However the deck is different from its predecessors. It uses a different untap engine and its primary win condition is Stroke of Genius and not Brain Freeze. The deck is also built with a focus on beating current Legacy strategies. These are subtle changes but they do matter. If you were looking for a deck that would break Legacy then you would have surely been disappointed. Hopefully you instead found a reasonable approach to reworking a strategy that was successful in Legacy.

Thank you for the compliments.