Worlds 2008

[Jak]

So was Legacy supposed to be played today in the team competition or is it tomorrow? Just please post updates on this!

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

It'll be of limited value anyway, though. Although the cardpool that Legacy has exclusive access to (exclusive by dint of Vintage not caring much about creatures) seems to grow with time.

[Arctic_Slicer]

Legacy Deck Tech: Dreadstill with Paul Cheon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckDFiQA14eQ&feature=channel_page).

It gives a good explanation about Dreadstill and is something that is worth watching for those interested in the deck. Other than that though it shows that once again that most of the so called "pros" are pretty clueless when it comes to eternal formats.

[Shugyosha]

Other than that though it shows that once again that most of the so called "pros" are pretty clueless when it comes to eternal formats.

Well what's the problem with that? It shows that Cheon is one of the more intelligent pros. He admits that he hasn't knowledge of the format, so he asked someone who did and turned up with a really good deck. He's not like some other pros who play terrible decks and pretend to know everything about Legacy.

[cdr]

Cheon is awesome, stfu etc.

I'm at Worlds. Most of the Legacy decks are pretty janky, Cheon is one of the few with an actual good one.

There's a 40 dual land side event today or tomorrow too. Ask any questions and I'll try to answer.

[Tanarin]

Well what's the problem with that? It shows that Cheon is one of the more intelligent pros. He admits that he hasn't knowledge of the format, so he asked someone who did and turned up with a really good deck. He's not like some other pros who play terrible decks and pretend to know everything about Legacy.

Yeah, he seems like one of the few pros that actually cares and likes the format. Though he still needs to learn why there are a couple of echoing truth's in the SB. >.<

[socialite]

FFS Brian David Marshall needs to go DIAF. Seriously.


DREAD UNSTOPPABLE

Honestly stop renaming decks that already have bad names with even worse names.

[Apex]

I liked Cheon's video, it was cool.

It also reminded me that almost every time there is a large Legacy event, there will be a bunch of people that shows up with Belcher. My friend that went to Worlds last year as part of team Canada spent a bunch of time testing UGr Threshold and GoyfSligh, concluded that he didn't know how to play Threshold properly, and didn't want to play GoyfSligh, ended up taking a Belcher deck (he went 2-3 for the legacy portion). Once he got there, he saw alot of people that had the same idea. Cheon's pretty good, since he took Belcher into consideration, even though it's not that great of a deck, but there are still ALOT of people playing it, good metagame call.

[Deviruchi]

I'm curious who was trying to Stifle Standstill. Hope it was famous pro player ;)

[KillemallCFH]

Cheon's pretty good, since he took Belcher into consideration, even though it's not that great of a deck, but there are still ALOT of people playing it, good metagame call.I really don't think he took it in consideration much. I think it was more like "I don't play this format and don't really know what Pithing Needle is good against, but I think Belcher exists."

Not that I'm trying to knock Cheon or anything. I think this video was fairly awesome, and a really good thing for the Legacy community.

[socialite]

I really don't think he took it in consideration much. I think it was more like "I don't play this format and don't really know what Pithing Needle is good against, but I think Belcher exists."

Not that I'm trying to knock Cheon or anything. I think this video was fairly awesome, and a really good thing for the Legacy community.

I agree. While I know he is an excellent player he seemed to come off as a little clueless in some aspects which is understandable since he admitted he really had no previous exposure to the format.

I have to give him a +1 in the fact that he is dispelling myths associated with our format in an open forum. I really liked that he established interaction in our format considering most people I talk to lump our format in with Vintage and assume neither have any form of interaction based on the card pool being inherently broken.

[Jaynel]

Legacy Deck Tech: Dreadstill with Paul Cheon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckDFiQA14eQ&feature=channel_page).

It gives a good explanation about Dreadstill and is something that is worth watching for those interested in the deck. Other than that though it shows that once again that most of the so called "pros" are pretty clueless when it comes to eternal formats.

This is pretty good for the format, but bad for Rodney's ego.

[Eldariel]

It was funny how that South African fellow threw G3 away vs. Cheon. All he needed to do was to leave Matron behind and Cheon wouldn't have had any outs (and he woulda still won next round easily thanks to SCG). Instead he attacked with everything giving Cheon one out in EE, which he got and won. Nice job throwing the game away there, champ.

[Pinder]

Best quote from that video:

"This is a purely interactive deck, all you do is counter their spells."

[Bryant Cook]

Chuck is anyone there playing TES? If so, who?

[Pinder]

"Sea Drake? What's that?" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KQPO6H4Ejk&feature=channel)

Although I will give him some slack, as it's a Portal-only card that most people probably haven't ever heard of.

It's just funny to hear him say it.

[kirdape3]

FFS Brian David Marshall needs to go DIAF. Seriously.


DREAD UNSTOPPABLE

Honestly stop renaming decks that already have bad names with even worse names.

BDM has done more for Magic: the Gathering in the last 72 hours than you will in your entire existence, so please refrain from posting about him (or at all hopefully) in the future.

You're welcome for the friendly public service announcement.

This video was also really funny: "That's a real deck, that's a real deck, that's a real deck... that's not a real deck, that's not a real deck..." - basically how I think of the format. A handful of decks that are really good and then people playing whatever they want to.

[MULocke]

"Two different two-card combos, this looks a lot like the deck that won Columbus [GP: Flash]." Sigh...

It's kinda depressing how none of the pros really understand this format. In the T2 and Extended deck techs they talk about the deck like pros, but here they spend five minutes explaining how stifle works with dreadnought.

[socialite]

That seemed unnecessarily harsh. Did you miss the part where I said it was totally reasonable for him not to know what it was? I just thought it was funny how he said it.

Also, I was quoting Bhueler. Not that that really changes your comparison.

I think he was talking about my earlier post. Which still doesn't change the fact that it was harsh and unwarranted.

BDM's deck names are also still retarded.

Edit: On that note I am also curious as to if anyone is playing Faerie Stompy. Seems like Chalice and Force would be a beating with all the Belcher running around.

[Solaran_X]

"Two different two-card combos, this looks a lot like the deck that won Columbus [GP: Flash]." Sigh...

It's kinda depressing how none of the pros really understand this format. In the T2 and Extended deck techs they talk about the deck like pros, but here they spend five minutes explaining how stifle works with dreadnought.
Examples like this are exactly why WotC needs to give the Eternal formats (namely Legacy, due to it's non-inherent broken nature) more face time. The "Pros", for the most part, are almost completely clueless about cards that aren't in Extended, Standard, or Limited.

Legacy, if it was given some more face time (perhaps it's own SEASON alongside Standard, Extended, and Limited), would be absolutely blown open...which would, without much argument, be nothing but beneficial to Legacy.

But as it stands right now...how many "pros" could hold their own against a seasoned, above average Legacy player with their knowledge of the format? I don't think very many would.

[Pinder]

Edit: On that note I am also curious as to if anyone is playing Faerie Stompy. Seems like Chalice and Force would be a beating with all the Belcher running around.

There's at least one guy. LSV played against him with Enchantress.

[socialite]

There's at least one guy. LSV played against him with Enchantress.

That video was from 2007 Worlds. Not 2008. :frown:

[Pinder]

That video was from 2007 Worlds. Not 2008. :frown:

Yeah, I just realized. I thought, "Hey wait, didn't Bhueler ask about Sea Drake last year too?"

Then I realized the video was from last year.

I'm dumb. Pay no attention.

[MULocke]

Examples like this are exactly why WotC needs to give the Eternal formats (namely Legacy, due to it's non-inherent broken nature) more face time. The "Pros", for the most part, are almost completely clueless about cards that aren't in Extended, Standard, or Limited.

Legacy, if it was given some more face time (perhaps it's own SEASON alongside Standard, Extended, and Limited), would be absolutely blown open...which would, without much argument, be nothing but beneficial to Legacy.

Agreed. The only reason I can think of not to give it its own season is card availability. If a lot more people are struggling to get legacy cards, there's a problem.

[TheAardvark]

Examples like this are exactly why WotC needs to give the Eternal formats (namely Legacy, due to it's non-inherent broken nature) more face time. The "Pros", for the most part, are almost completely clueless about cards that aren't in Extended, Standard, or Limited.

Legacy, if it was given some more face time (perhaps it's own SEASON alongside Standard, Extended, and Limited), would be absolutely blown open...which would, without much argument, be nothing but beneficial to Legacy.

But as it stands right now...how many "pros" could hold their own against a seasoned, above average Legacy player with their knowledge of the format? I don't think very many would.

You realize that a good portion of them have most likely actually played a lot of "Legacy" cards, right? Many of them used to actually be legal in Standard or (more likely to be relevant) Extended, so they have experience with the cards. Now, the decks they are in might be different, but thinking that the format has this crazy learning curve and that they are all apparently clueless is pretty disingenuous.

But you're obviously better than all of them since you are an "above average Legacy player". So, keep fighting the good fight.

[socialite]

You realize that a good portion of them have most likely actually played a lot of "Legacy" cards, right? Many of them used to actually be legal in Standard or (more likely to be relevant) Extended, so they have experience with the cards. Now, the decks they are in might be different, but thinking that the format has this crazy learning curve and that they are all apparently clueless is pretty disingenuous.

But you're obviously better than all of them since you are an "above average Legacy player". So, keep fighting the good fight.

I don't think his point was that Legacy is hard and he is really good.

I think his point was pro players tend to have very little general knowledge of the format because WOC gives it no face time and in the grand scheme of things Legacy is a non factor in making money and doing well as a pro, so why devote any time to the format.

[TheAardvark]

I don't think his point was that Legacy is hard and he is really good.

I think his point was pro players tend to have very little general knowledge of the format because WOC gives it no face time and in the grand scheme of things Legacy is a non factor in making money and doing well as a pro, so why devote any time to the format.

But how do you know that most of the players at Worlds don't have a clue? Have you spoken to all of them? Have you looked at all of their decklists?

Making sweeping generalizations based on 57 players in one event, where most of the players actually playing Legacy would not really be considered "pros" by most, is just ridiculous. A lot of people get tiffed when people make sweeping generalizations about Legacy and/or the community itself, but it's ok for you to do it?

The players who get invited to PTs on rating and get 3 byes at GPs know how to play Magic, by and large. There are different considerations to take into each format, certainly, but the players know how to make those adjustments; that's why they qualify for said events (or trip byes).

But whatever. This thread has been made for Columbus and Worlds 2007 already, so I don't think this is serving any purpose.

Cheers.

EDIT: I am not trying to pick any fights or anything. I just think the thought process of "the pros are clueless"/"our format is so superior that Random Guy could beat PV every time" is a little suspect, and is just as silly as someone saying "all Legacy players suck" or something like that. Regardless, we've been down this road before, so I am done with it. Carry on.

[socialite]

But how do you know that most of the players at Worlds don't have a clue? Have you spoken to all of them? Have you looked at all of their decklists?

Making sweeping generalizations based on 57 players in one event, where most of the players actually playing Legacy would not really be considered "pros" by most, is just ridiculous. A lot of people get tiffed when people make sweeping generalizations about Legacy and/or the community itself, but it's ok for you to do it?

The players who get invited to PTs on rating and get 3 byes at GPs know how to play Magic, by and large. There are different considerations to take into each format, certainly, but the players know how to make those adjustments; that's why they qualify for said events (or trip byes).

But whatever. This thread has been made for Columbus and Worlds 2007 already, so I don't think this is serving any purpose.

Cheers.

EDIT: I am not trying to pick any fights or anything. I just think the thought process of "the pros are clueless"/"our format is so superior that Random Guy could beat PV every time" is a little suspect, and is just as silly as someone saying "all Legacy players suck" or something like that. Regardless, we've been down this road before, so I am done with it. Carry on.

LSV is a freak of nature and an exception.

When significant players such as Cheon admits he himself/team knows very little of the format I will make assumptions that the rest of the field knows very little.

You make a valid point but as it has been said over and over the format attracts little attention and carries very little weight for Pros. Why would they know anything about it?

[Bardo]

But as it stands right now...how many "pros" could hold their own against a seasoned, above average Legacy player with their knowledge of the format? I don't think very many would.

It's awesome, every time there is some premier-level Legacy-tournament (mainly, the GPs), your sentiment is very popular on these kinds of sites: "The pros don't know anything about this format, any regular Legacy Joe can beat them." Presumably, because we're "invested" in the format and are somehow entitled to win. Or some shit.

Facts are:

First place, GP: Philadelphia -- Jon Sonne (second place, Chris Pikula)
First place, GP: Lille -- Helmut Summersburger
First place, GP: Columbus -- Steve Sadin

All well-known players on the Pro Tour (at various times), none of which have an account here (except for Pikula, who created account on MTS after GP Philly to defend his card choices in B/w Deadguy).

Knowing a lot about the largely irrelevant Legacy metagame is not nearly as important as knowing how to play a very tight and focused game of MtG, regardless of the format.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Agreed with above. Even without practice, most of the top level pros can apply their knowledge of the game itself to win with any given Legacy deck. In some consolation, Pikula is one of the very few to actually create the deck they won with, so we're doing something right.

But in order to really give Legacy regulars an edge over Pros that are better at actually playing, deck development would need to be done in secret, which would in turn probably weaken those projects.

And team secrecy still conveys less of an advantage than in Standard or even Extended because once the secret is out, there's not a massive upheaval in the format four months late to provide opportunities for brand new development.

Meanwhile, my money is generally going to go towards people that play the game religiously rather than people that dedicated a couple weekends a month to this particular format, assuming they have the sense God gave them to actually play a deck that's proven itself to a greater or lesser degree.

People want to paint pros as either perfect machines or inhuman Captain Planet villians. "Pros" are just people that love this game more than you and dedicate absurd, usually unhealthy amounts of time to it. They play so many different formats on average that they have relatively little trouble adopting to a new landscape. They win because they're driven by love of the game to an extent that very few Legacy players are. Legacy is primarily made up of people who view the format as something to be casually, calmly enjoyed; the format is Eternal because it can be savored slowly over the course of years.

If you had the same urgency and crushing sense of now, you'd probably go and make yourself a pro as well. It's the difference between an Olympic Athlete and someone one the local church or neighborhood tennis team.

[Bahamuth]

I think format knowledge is pretty important as well. I'm not saying pro's don't have that, because I'm sure anyone could get plenty of info on that by just looking at this site. Still, knowing how your matchups are against all sorts of versions of much-played decks can greatly influence your sideboard and even deck decision.

Then again, I'm not too sure if the meta at the worlds represents any of the usual Legacy meta's.

[Pulp_Fiction]

So what is currently going in on the legacy event? What decks are doing good/bad?

[Pinder]

So what is currently going in on the legacy event? What decks are doing good/bad?

We really don't know. The Legacy part was one-third of the team competition (one person was playing Extended, the other Legacy, and another Standard), and so far the only thing we have is that Paul Cheon is playing Dreadstill (and I guess he beat whatever the Japanese Legacy player was playing).

[Apex]

I'm pretty sure the Japanese guy was playing White Stax. The Koreans were playing with Goblins, and their opponent, the Malaysians, were playing with I think Landstill (dubbed "Tarmogoyf Control" by Nate Price). And then there should be alot of belcher player. I'm gonna go ask my friend when he comes online about what the Canadian players played (probably Threshold or Belcher I'm guessing).

Hey, at least decent decks showed up, right?

[goobafish]

Our Canadian Legacy Player was going to be playing Canadian Threshold, but was turned down at the border, I don't know what the alternate is playing.

[DuxDucis]

I asked if he had much experience with the deck, and he informed me that he’d never played a game of Legacy before going off turn one in Round 1—that, my friends, is a deck.

This made me laugh...from 2008 Worlds Blog: Day 3 (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/worlds08/blog3#7)

Talking about the Costa Rican team playing "Belchin’ Round the World" :wink:

[Nessaja]

FFS Brian David Marshall needs to go DIAF. Seriously.


DREAD UNSTOPPABLE

Honestly stop renaming decks that already have bad names with even worse names.

Dread - nought -->> Dread - not - stoppable

not unstoppable ~~

Yeah.. bit mixed about the video, the player getting interviewed isn't someone with great insight considering the format. As a legacy player I'd rather hear someone who does know the format inside out and made x expected metagame changes to his deck for y reasons.

But I guess this coverage isn't meant for legacy players.

[Bardo]

Legacy Deck Tech: Dreadstill with Paul Cheon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckDFiQA14eQ&feature=channel_page).

It gives a good explanation about Dreadstill and is something that is worth watching for those interested in the deck. Other than that though it shows that once again that most of the so called "pros" are pretty clueless when it comes to eternal formats.

Just watched it. Solid, honest. I liked that Paul said "Legacy is a real format" when BDM suggested it was dumb and all about "look at your hand, do you win?" decks. Also, he had a good way of articulating why CB is such a dominating card in the format.


But I guess this coverage isn't meant for legacy players.

The fact that it's hosted by WotC is a good indication. ;)

[Solaran_X]

You realize that a good portion of them have most likely actually played a lot of "Legacy" cards, right? Many of them used to actually be legal in Standard or (more likely to be relevant) Extended, so they have experience with the cards. Now, the decks they are in might be different, but thinking that the format has this crazy learning curve and that they are all apparently clueless is pretty disingenuous.
Knowledge and skill in Limited does not apply to Standard or Extended.
Knowledge and skill in Standard does not apply to Limited or Extended.
Knowledge and skill in Extended does not apply to Standard or Limited.

And on the same lines of thought...

Knowledge and skill in the "seasonal" formats does not apply to Legacy.

Cards that are good in those formats may be complete and utter wastes in Legacy. And cards that are complete and utter wastes in those formats may be good in Legacy.

Playing with the cards in one format and playing with the same cards in another format are not one-in-the-same, and just because a card was utilitzed one way in Standard or Extended does not mean it can or will be used the same way in Legacy.


But you're obviously better than all of them since you are an "above average Legacy player". So, keep fighting the good fight.
I never considering myself an "above average Legacy player", and I find your condescending attitude extremely insulting. Making assumptions is very dangerous, especially about people you know nothing about.

[atv]

Knowledge and skill in Limited does not apply to Standard or Extended.
Knowledge and skill in Standard does not apply to Limited or Extended.
Knowledge and skill in Extended does not apply to Standard or Limited.

And on the same lines of thought...

Knowledge and skill in the "seasonal" formats does not apply to Legacy.


I can't agree with any of these statements.

...

Interesting top 8 for tomorrow, kinda. Many big name players with previous top 8 experience, which is great. Six Faerie decks... not so nice. Wish there had been more variance.

[TeenieBopper]

Knowledge and skill in Limited does not apply to Standard or Extended.
Knowledge and skill in Standard does not apply to Limited or Extended.
Knowledge and skill in Extended does not apply to Standard or Limited.

And on the same lines of thought...

Knowledge and skill in the "seasonal" formats does not apply to Legacy.

Cards that are good in those formats may be complete and utter wastes in Legacy. And cards that are complete and utter wastes in those formats may be good in Legacy.

Playing with the cards in one format and playing with the same cards in another format are not one-in-the-same, and just because a card was utilitzed one way in Standard or Extended does not mean it can or will be used the same way in Legacy.




No, but the concepts of card advantage, tempo, resource management, role assumption, mulliganing, combat math, philosophy of fire, sideboarding, picking a good deck rather than your favorite deck, etc apply to Legacy just as they do to limited, standard, extended, and Legacy. Those concepts are far more important than any piece of Legacy specific information or skill. And pros know those concepts far better than your average or even exceptional legacy exclusive player.

In just about any given Legacy field, I'll pick a pro to win over just about anyone else. You know why? They're not good at Legacy, they're good at Magic.

[That kid you all hate]

No, but the concepts of card advantage, tempo, resource management, role assumption, mulliganing, combat math, philosophy of fire, sideboarding, picking a good deck rather than your favorite deck, etc apply to Legacy just as they do to limited, standard, extended, and Legacy. Those concepts are far more important than any piece of Legacy specific information or skill. And pros know those concepts far better than your average or even exceptional legacy exclusive player.

In just about any given Legacy field, I'll pick a pro to win over just about anyone else. You know why? They're not good at Legacy, they're good at Magic.

Want proof? Carl Dillahey top 8ing every legacy event he plays.

[Bardo]

Knowledge and skill in Limited does not apply to Standard or Extended.
Knowledge and skill in Standard does not apply to Limited or Extended.
Knowledge and skill in Extended does not apply to Standard or Limited.

And on the same lines of thought...

Knowledge and skill in the "seasonal" formats does not apply to Legacy.

Cards that are good in those formats may be complete and utter wastes in Legacy. And cards that are complete and utter wastes in those formats may be good in Legacy.

You speak as though a random Extended player who read the text of Swords to Plowshares or Force of Will would say, "Oh my god, what are these cards?! Damn, Condemn and Disrupting Shoal are totally obsolete!" Amateurs and pros that have been playing Magic for a while are not going to see Survival of the Fittest for the first time and be wowed.

I'll grant that there are certain card evaluation skills you need in draft, but constructed is a completely different horse. Anyway, the skills that are required to play Block at the highest level are not so different than those required to play Legacy at its highest level. The smart money is on the person that can play Magic the best, regardless of format.

Edit - @ TB - :)


Want proof? Carl Dillahey top 8ing every legacy event he plays.

Sample size would have a word with you.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Knowledge and skill in Limited does not apply to Standard or Extended.
Knowledge and skill in Standard does not apply to Limited or Extended.
Knowledge and skill in Extended does not apply to Standard or Limited.

And on the same lines of thought...

Knowledge and skill in the "seasonal" formats does not apply to Legacy.

Cards that are good in those formats may be complete and utter wastes in Legacy. And cards that are complete and utter wastes in those formats may be good in Legacy.

Playing with the cards in one format and playing with the same cards in another format are not one-in-the-same, and just because a card was utilitzed one way in Standard or Extended does not mean it can or will be used the same way in Legacy.

This is absurdly ill-informed. Probably at least 95% of play decisions are generic; they're some variant on decisions common throughout the major formats. A slight edge in the 5% of plays that are actually Legacy specific doesn't make up for a vast differential in the other 95% of possible mistakes.

This is why Chicago, like the other Legacy GPs, will almost surely be won by a normal Pro rather than an Eternal specialist.


I never considering myself an "above average Legacy player"

So why should I listen to your opinion? If you don't think you offer any particularly useful insights, I fail to see why I should. The false humility doesn't help anyone; if you think you have something valuable to contribute to the dialogue, say so.


I think he was talking about my earlier post. Which still doesn't change the fact that it was harsh and unwarranted.

Don't take it personally, kirdape has a lot to compensate for.

[Deep6er]

I would like to say that my results from Grand Prix: Philadelphia should be included in to the ideals here.

I played against Alex Liebermann, and a couple of other big name pros, while Calosso (fucking Calosso!) beat Gerard Fabiano.

There were a couple of other Virginia people that beat other big name pros. Additionally, Eugene Levin and I have also played twice. I think there were a couple of other people too.

Just saying, but pros make mistakes too. The clearest incident I can recall is when I was playing against Alex Liebermann.

At the end of my fourth turn, he taps out to play Fact or Fiction. I respond by playing High Tide, after that resolves, I Twincast his Fact or Fiction and proceed to reveal the busted nuts (Turnabout, Twincast, Meditate, two other ridiculous cards). He scoops and we go on to game two. In game two, it seems that he knows what he's doing as he lands an Arcane Lab and lets me cast whatever spell I want except for bounce spells on the Lab. He then beats me to death with a Factory. However, in game three, he proceeds to again play a Fact or Fiction on the end of my fourth turn.

I propose that a Legacy player knowledgeable about Solidarity would have known that the Solidarity player sideboards additional Twincasts for the Landstill match up. Even discounting the fact that it's the reason he lost game one, that plan is bad. So, I respond with High Tide (which resolves) into Twincast again revealing a very solid five. He scoops immediately thereafter.

There have been quite a few other questionable (or downright bad) moves done by pros against me. Sure, sometimes they're good, but they make mistakes just like everybody else. I posit that there is some difference in knowledge that can translate into an edge for the dedicated Legacy (in this instance) player.

[cdr]

I beat Jamie Park in GP Philly, knocking him out of day 2 contention. He was playing Time Vault combo and I was playing glitteringlinx.dec.

Jamie is now in the T8 of Worlds.

As to a way earlier question, there was some storm but not much, and a lot of it included Belcher.

[kabal]

Akihiro Takakuwa - Legacy - Japan
2008 Worlds National Team Top 4

Main Deck

1 Ancient Den
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Dust Bowl
4 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Plains
4 Wasteland

3 Magus of the Tabernacle
4 Armageddon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Crucible of Worlds
3 Enlightened Tutor
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Mox Diamond
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Smokestack
4 Trinisphere

Sideboard

2 Aura of Silence
1 Enlightened Tutor
4 Exalted Angel
1 Pithing Needle
1 Rule of Law
3 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Tormod's Crypt


====


Paul Cheon - Legacy - USA
2008 Worlds National Team Top 4

Main Deck

3 Flooded Strand
6 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Polluted Delta
2 Volcanic Island
3 Wasteland

4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Trinket Mage
4 Brainstorm
3 Counterbalance
4 Daze
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Force of Will
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Spell Snare
4 Standstill
4 Stifle
2 Trickbind

Sideboard

3 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Echoing Truth
1 Pithing Needle
1 Pyroblast
2 Pyroclasm
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Tormod's Crypt


====


Luiz Michielli - Legacy - Brazil
2008 Worlds National Team Top 4

Main Deck

2 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Forest
4 Forgotten Cave
1 Mountain
1 Plateau
1 Stomping Ground
2 Taiga
3 Tranquil Thicket
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills

3 Countryside Crusher
2 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Terravore
4 Burning Wish
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Devastating Dreams
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Life from the Loam
4 Mox Diamond
3 Seismic Assault


Sideboard

1 Chainer's Edict
1 Devastating Dreams
3 Jund Charm
3 Krosan Grip
1 Life from the Loam
1 Morningtide
1 Reverent Silence
1 Shattering Spree
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Worm Harvest


====

Justin Cheung - Legacy - Australia
2008 Worlds National Team Top 4

Main Deck

1 Bayou
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Tombstalker
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Ponder
4 Sinkhole
4 Snuff Out
4 Stifle
4 Thoughtseize

Sideboard

1 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Diabolic Edict
1 Duress
2 Hydroblast
3 Krosan Grip
1 Threads of Disloyalty
4 Tormod's Crypt

[Pulp_Fiction]

Awesome, thanks for posting the lists. Is there any coverage of the legacy matches? I am looking on the Wizards site and can't really find anything.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

=/

Dreadstill, GeddonStax, Team America, AggroLoam.

Things change indeed.

[Arctic_Slicer]

=/

Dreadstill, GeddonStax, Team America, AggroLoam.

Things change indeed.

Those are just the decks the top 4 teams are running. The Armageddon Stax list is being run by Akihiro Takakuwa of team Japan. He has a 0-4 record with the deck but fortunately for him his teammates, Masashi Oiso and Yuuya Watanabe, have done well enough with their extended and standard decks as well as doing well individually to make it to the top 4 of the team competition. Paul Cheon of team USA on the other hand has a 4-0 record with his Dreadstill list.

What we really need is for them to show us the decks that went 4-0 in the legacy team matches but I'm not expecting them.

[Lifeless]

Awesome, thanks for posting the lists. Is there any coverage of the legacy matches? I am looking on the Wizards site and can't really find anything.

Team rounds 2, 3, and 4 have Legacy match coverage.

[frogboy]

What we really need is for them to show us the decks that went 4-0 in the legacy team matches but I'm not expecting them.

This might not even be tracked.

Is six fetchlands standard in Dreadstill?

[Jak]

This might not even be tracked.

Is six fetchlands standard in Dreadstill?

Yeah.

[Isamaru]

So basically they just logged onto the Source and built the first thing they clicked?

[Nihil Credo]

So basically they just logged onto the Source and built the first thing they clicked?

Except for the Japanese, who stuck to their national passion for Stax lists full of conditional cards and almost completely devoid of win conditions. I need to check whether they actually use time limits in Japanese tournament.

Don't blame them for not breaking the format open again, though. Only a small number of pros were going to play Legacy at all, and only for four rounds in a sort of side-event. I wouldn't have tested either.

[Apex]

And I don't think they copied off the source necessarily. More like deckcheck, since there are additional information on european/south american legacy tournament winning decks.


Our Canadian Legacy Player was going to be playing Canadian Threshold, but was turned down at the border, I don't know what the alternate is playing.

I heard about Steve Wolfman (I'm assuming he's the legacy player then) being stopped at the boarder, wtf? That's retarded. Did the customs think he was gonna terrorize the United States with a bunch of card?

[goobafish]

Anyone else watching the feed? It was pretty epic last year.

[frolll]

I am watching.

[Nihil Credo]

Me too.

[Zach Tartell]

I'm not brave enough to try finding it on the Wizard's site, so could somebody link me?

[Nihil Credo]

Slap this into your media player of choice (Windows Media Player, VLC, Media Player Classic, SMplayer, etc.): mms://a436.l1897952435.c18979.g.lm.akamaistream.net/D/436/18979/v0001/reflector:52435

You aren't missing much right now, they're covering an extremely boring Faeries vs. 5C Control match.

[bruno_tiete]

And I don't think they copied off the source necessarily. More like deckcheck, since there are additional information on european/south american legacy tournament winning decks.


In fact, Luiz Guilherme de Michielli is a teammate of mine and is playing my deck (as in my cards). The list has been posted by me with 3 ou 4 tournament results in tha AggroLoam Thread. In this post (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showpost.php?p=278078&postcount=599), he is my mentioned friend.

I worry about the Loam vs Team America matchup. I have had rather inconsistent results in my testing.

[xsockmonkeyx]

Except for the Japanese, who stuck to their national passion for Stax lists full of conditional cards and almost completely devoid of win conditions. I need to check whether they actually use time limits in Japanese tournament.

Im guessing with the lack of interest in the format, boredom would be a more viable win con.

[Nihil Credo]

This will be interesting, half the name pros are out (Tsumura, Karsten) and the others are behind (Asahara, Damor Da Rosa)

EDIT: Yep, the big names are out.

[Nihil Credo]

They're starting covering Legacy.

/intentional doublepost

[frolll]

http://bhampushtool1.hardlines.com/webcast/webcast.html?Javascript=1&FlashVersion=10.0+r12&QuicktimeVersion=7.5&WMPVersion=0&ConnectionSpeed=DSL%2FCable&Language=English

-> This works if you want to watch it. I guess... =/
And taht last Parke game was savage : Cruel Ultimatum is an absurd card. ;p

[Nihil Credo]

Double-mox opening into chalice@1 on the play for Stax. I guess that's... ok? If Cheon had got EE it would have been hilarious though.

[Gambit]

God damn he's giving stax a bad name. And that folks is why STAX doesn't play 1 drops. Stupid shit. Ehh, on second thought I guess if he was going to have to break the standstill, this allowed him to do it at end of turn. He still should have broken that a long time ago in my opinion

[frolll]

He just casted an Enlightened Tutor right into that Chalice of the Void, though.
And discarded a Magus of the Tabernacle. Like... One of his three win conditions...
Way to go, Champ :P

(but hey, WotC is really covering Legacy, <3 WotC)

[Nihil Credo]

I *so* want Cheon to counter his third Magus and say "gg".

And they just switched to Extended 'cause Legacy is apparently boring.

[socialite]

I gots no sound. :mad:

Edit: Ooops there we go, took a while.

[JeroenC]

Stax is always boring but this Stax is painfully boring... Why doesn't it have something like Factories or whatever? I thought playing only one wincon was usually a bad idea.

Edit: glad about the Legacy coverage, though.

[Brehn]

He just casted an Enlightened Tutor right into that Chalice of the Void, though.
And discarded a Magus of the Tabernacle. Like... One of his three win conditions...
Way to go, Champ :P

(but hey, WotC is really covering Legacy, <3 WotC)

facepalm.jpg

[socialite]

He keeps casting into Chalice to break Cheons Standstills, apparently he is trying to deck him to win.



Dread not stoppable wins!

[Nihil Credo]

Surprise, surprise, it didn't work.

[Janet]

He keeps casting into Chalice to break Cheons Standstills, apparently he is trying to deck him to win.

Annnnnd, he fails to do so.

[n00bas4urus_r3x]

lol @ the announcers wondering the interaction between Chalice, 3sphere and Aura of Silence.

[socialite]

"Force of Will, one life, three mana, and pitches a card. HILARRRRRRRRRRRRRRIOUS."

[JeroenC]

Well, I didn't know about Trinisphere and Aura of Silence, tbh...

[jjjoness']

Actually watching that legacy match hurts. Really, it hurts so bad.

[TeenieBopper]

Well, I didn't know about Trinisphere and Aura of Silence, tbh...

Trinisphere always applies last.

[Zach Tartell]

Is there a good reason that they keep on playing and activating explosives on the same turn?

[goobafish]

Wirewood Symbiote was the reason a couple of times.

[Zach Tartell]

When they say "lunch break" do they mean "Hey, Zach - you have like a half hour to make lunch and try to do work" or "Ten minutes"?

Edit: See you chumps in an hour.

[Ectoplasm]

They just said they'd be back in an hour.

[rockout]

The UB tron player needed turn 1 chalice and mana against Elfball. Viridian Shaman off the top from a Glimpse trigger to kill Chrome Mox for the win.

No idea why Takakuwa played Staxs for the Legacy portion of Team Competition.

I'm excited to see Dreadstill vs. Team America in the finals of Team Competition.

[Deviruchi]

Hope finals will be more interesting. Watching this stax was really painful.

[rockout]

Hope finals will be more interesting. Watching this stax was really painful.

Second.

[frolll]

They really should have covered the Aggro Loam vs Team America match, tbh.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Deviruchi View Post
Hope finals will be more interesting. Watching this stax was really painful.
Second.

Seconded here too. :/

[Ectoplasm]

So team America is actually facing Team America! That's pretty funny.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Dreadstill vs. Team America

It's the wave of the fucking future.

At least no one can say Legacy is just Extended ports anymore.

Or they can, but they'll get punched.

[Pinder]

Are there any videos left over of the Legacy stuff? Or did I miss it all?

[n00bas4urus_r3x]

They're starting up the feed at 1:30 again I think, hopefully they'll show some legacy. They said they were going to do a Deck Tech or two as well, maybe we'll see Team America.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Who wants to set odds that they never refer to the deck by it's given name throughout the entire podcast?

Although I'll give out mad cahoney points if the bastards call it Team Brazil.

[Pinder]

Who wants to set odds that they never refer to the deck by it's given name throughout the entire podcast?

Although I'll give out mad cahoney points if the bastards call it Team Brazil.

Where are you people watching this? I'm watching the stream and I'm getting the standard top8.

[Deviruchi]

Where are you people watching this? I'm watching the stream and I'm getting the standard top8.

I think we have to wait for them to finish this round to see a bit of legacy in teams finals.

[Pinder]

I really don't think Ikeda was trying to give him another card as much as try to prove that Parke still drew two after he killed the visions, right?

[rockout]

I would take the extra card. Kill the bitterblossom and swung into and kill him with the Thresher. Never mind I just saw the Cryptic Command to tap token.

[Nihil Credo]

Playing control in this new Standard must be pretty awesome when you can fend off B/R aggro like this.

[frolll]

Actually, 5 Colors Control is a really really nice deck. It got me back into Standard like, 3 weeks ago. Resolving Cruel Ultimatum is damn nice, you know ? :p

[Zach Tartell]

I didn't realize they were playing War Monk now. That's a cool sideboard card.

[rockout]

Playing control in this new Standard must be pretty awesome when you can fend off B/R aggro like this.

Yeah. Spiteful whatever (the enchantment) from the BR deck wasn't that good of a choice in my mind. Where is the Everlasting Torment to stop the life gain? I would expect that as a 4-of out of the board. Everlasting Torment isn't even in the board.

[Pinder]

God, BDM and Bhueler are like the fucking Odd Couple.

[Zach Tartell]

I loved that sidelong glance like a minute ago.

[rockout]

God, BDM and Bhueler are like the fucking Odd Couple.

Yeah, they talk over eachother fairly often.

[Nihil Credo]

I don't know about you guys, but if I were Finnish I'd be embarrassed to be represented by someone wearing flannel over a shirt and tie. There's nerdy and then there's weird.

[socialite]

I don't know about you guys, but if I were Finnish I'd be embarrassed to be represented by someone wearing flannel over a shirt and tie. There's nerdy and then there's weird.

He's bringing it back.

[Pinder]

He's bringing it back.

What do you mean back?

[Nihil Credo]

It's times like these that I hate combo in Legacy, because if it didn't exist I would probably be able to play a slow, resilient aggro deck like Standard Kithkin. 1-drop, 2-drop, 3-drop, 4-drop with CA, 5-drop with CA just looks so good.

[Jak]

Also the fact that a 3 mana 3/4 with lifelink is completely unplayed. Ugh combo is so fast.

[Nihil Credo]

Also the fact that a 3 mana 3/4 with lifelink is completely unplayed. Ugh combo is so fast.

No, that's another problem. They don't play RWM in Extended either (last time I checked). Guess why.

[Pinder]

Also the fact that a 3 mana 3/4 with lifelink is completely unplayed.

This. I watched those things plod along like mini-Exalteds and was so sad that they're completely unplayable.

[Citrus-God]

Actually, 5 Colors Control is a really really nice deck. It got me back into Standard like, 3 weeks ago. Resolving Cruel Ultimatum is damn nice, you know ? :p

5c Control is fucking awesome. That deck is however, slow as balls, but it's really fucking fun to play. But to be honest, Standard looks awkward right now. Cruel Ultimatum is just really fucking bad ass but isn't really necessary though.

[frolll]

They are, but in Standard, and Block.

Also, Kithkins was Block at its debut, with Mirrorweave shenanigans. And now, it evolves a lot. ;)

If only Randy and BDM should be more quiet or talking about the actual matches, instead of chitchatting endlessly about somewhat private topics... Guys, you got matches to cover and comment, shut the fuck up otherwise, imho.

[Bardo]

They are, but in Standard, and Block.

Also, Kithkins was Block at its debut, with Mirrorweave shenanigans. And now, it evolves a lot. ;)

If only Randy and BDM should be more quiet or talking about the actual matches, instead of chitchatting endlessly about somewhat private topics... Guys, you got matches to cover and comment, shut the fuck up otherwise, imho.

Dead air is a killer when covering any kind of competitive thing. Also, you can always turn the sound off.

[rockout]

Ah Cryptic Command you sneaky devil, two for one countering Ranger of Eos and bouncing 4/4 Figure. A 4-cost instant that can do all kinds of good stuff isn't playable either.

[Bardo]

I don't know about you guys, but if I were Finnish I'd be embarrassed to be represented by someone wearing flannel over a shirt and tie. There's nerdy and then there's weird.

Google'ing "Estonia" and "Flannel" turned up this site (http://lookbook.nu/user/952-Erika-A), which has been a lot more fun to go through than watching this T2 match.

Edit - There's no more Legacy is there?

[rockout]

No Rookie of the Year for Kerem.

I've been watching Faeries since it first came out and after all the hate and the decks made to beat it. It makes it to the top of worlds. Not bad.

[Nihil Credo]

Finals: Malin (Finland) vs. Parke (USA)

Interestingly, if Parke wins every PT this year will have been won by Americans.

Team finals (incl. Legacy) about to start now.

[Nihil Credo]

Google'ing "Estonia" and "Flannel" turned up this site (http://lookbook.nu/user/952-Erika-A), which has been a lot more fun to go through than watching this T2 match.

Edit - There's no more Legacy is there?
There's the team finals right now, with Dreadstill vs. Team America.

Also, for some reason I had these in my weird pics folder tagged as "finnish fashion"

http://xs134.xs.to/xs134/08500/6t35vf8303.jpghttp://xs134.xs.to/xs134/08500/6tzpopy776.jpghttp://xs134.xs.to/xs134/08500/6ylp82h123.jpghttp://xs134.xs.to/xs134/08500/7wr05f9906.jpg

[Nihil Credo]

They Just Called Team America "kind Of A Blue-black Control Deck, Sort Of Like The Rock I Guess"

[whienot]

Team America is a legacy rock deck?.... awesome.

[rockout]

All I hear about the match is sinkhole got forced.

[Pinder]

Almost Rock?

Really?

[Bryant Cook]

Although I'll give out mad cahoney points if the bastards call it Team Brazil.

I can see this happening.

[Brad Herbig]

I wish Randy and BDM would educate themselves on a format they are broadcasting about. Maybe at least on accepted deck names.

[kabal]

Legacy game 1, Dreadstill wins Vs. UB Rock (AKA Team America)

[Nihil Credo]

They mentioned a Dreadnought in play at one point, which didn't get trumped by a Tombstalker.

Any idea on sideboarding? UB Control Rock wants the grips and probably the Duress, but i'm puzzled on what to side out - probably a LD piece since it's on the draw. For Dreadstill, I'd say in Truth, Relic, out EE and another one-of.

[Pinder]

I'm in the sort of awkward position of rooting for Team America the deck, as well as Team America the team.

[Deviruchi]

Cheon is playing versus ~"type 1 juzam deck"

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Cheon is playing versus ~"type 1 juzam deck"

Angryfaceemoticonsgohere.

[rockout]

"Apparently Relic of Progenitus has been seeing a lot of play in Legacy due to being able to deal with Tarm..."

Great point OH MY GOD!

[Zach Tartell]

I love that they had to confirm that you couldn't play un-sets.

[Bardo]

The 1.5 coverage is ignorant, but not really bad. At least it's getting coverage.

[Nihil Credo]

Rare-B-Gone might actually do good things in this format, sort of a Blood Moon on steroids. It's the kind of gigantic effect that makes it worth paying four mana for it.

EDIT: Cheon scoops, 1-1 now. USA wins Extended.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Enter the Dungeon discriminates against the morbidly obsese and/or hygenic Magic player.

And Blacker Lotus would become exponentially more expensive with time.

[Nihil Credo]

On a more technical note, this show isn't being shown on television. Is it so complicated to double the webcast resolution and show both matches in split-screen?

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I'm sad to find out Paulo got knocked out of the Top 8. I hung out with him for a bit at Honolulu, he's an insanely nice, likable guy. Forever redeemed the legions of people with the last name da Rosa (or one vowel difference) for me.

Also, when did Australia become a real country? First the Olympics, and now this. It's like they rose up as one and decided to stop being the punchline to bad jokes and/or a marketing gimmick. Almost makes me want to go see that movie.

[Enigma]

I think I would have force'd back this fow on CB. CB wins the game against TA.

[rockout]

I think I would have force'd back this fow on CB. CB wins the game against TA.

I agree, make him play daze if he has it.

[Pinder]

I think I would have force'd back this fow on CB. CB wins the game against TA.

Really? Cheung boarded in Grips, and he has Tombstalker and Snuff Out, both of which Cheon literally can't Counterbalance.

[rockout]

I agree. Make him cast the daze if he has it. You counter snuff out right there because you still have force and REB for counter war over anything Justin could have played.

[Nihil Credo]

Cheon is sandbagging spells like crazy. It was right not to spend a FoW to save the Mage IMO, but I'm surprised he still has all those Brainstorms in hand.

[etrigan]

Cheung should have saved that Wasteland for a Factory. What Red does spells he really fear at that point? =[

[Bardo]

Cheon is sandbagging spells like crazy. It was right not to spend a FoW to save the Mage IMO, but I'm surprised he still has all those Brainstorms in hand.

The game would be over if he Forced the Snuff Out.

[Nihil Credo]

Why the fuck did Cheung waste the Volcanic? He's got all the time in the world to do it if it ever becomes relevant.


The game would be over if he Forced the Snuff Out.

A posteriori. But if Cheung got any creature it would have been a wasted Force.

[Whit3 Ghost]

Cheon is sandbagging spells like crazy. It was right not to spend a FoW to save the Mage IMO, but I'm surprised he still has all those Brainstorms in hand.
Why?

Cheung's hand is absolutely retarded at the moment by the way. He's dropping a TON if he manages to get green mana again.

[Deviruchi]

This match should be over... Australian player should have waited 1 turn to get force backup for his Tombstalker. There was a window for this play. Easy to say when I see Paul's hand but still.

[rockout]

Standstill is so good. I've been at this draw go point in many a match and I love it more than anything.

[Whit3 Ghost]

Cheung also has stupid amounts of Factory defense.

2 Wastelands, a Sinkhole and a Krosan Grip.

[Ectoplasm]

Why is paul not cracking his fetchlands to increase his chance of drawing something useful?

[Nihil Credo]

It'd be funny if Cheon won both Legacy matches on the back of an opponent who thinks he can deck him with his own Standstills. Anyway, I find it cool that this standstill forces the webcast to focus solely on our format.



Why is paul not cracking his fetchlands to increase his chance of drawing something useful?At 4 life, it's not worth the price. FoWs and 2/2 become relevant.

[Whit3 Ghost]

Why is paul not cracking his fetchlands to increase his chance of drawing something useful?
He has a legitimate chance of being decked.

[Ectoplasm]

It'd be funny if Cheon won both Legacy matches on the back of an opponent who thinks he can deck him with his own Standstills. Anyway, I find it cool that this standstill forces the webcast to focus solely on our format.

At 4 life, it's not worth the price. FoWs and 2/2 become relevant.

Paul is the guy on 17 :)
But the announcers were talking about them decking eachother, as well as the poster above, so I guess it makes sense.

[Whit3 Ghost]

That is a great play by Cheung.

KGrip->Standstill because Paul can't actually respond.

[VsTheWorld]

Worst. Standstill. Evar. I think Paul really needs to just break his own Standstill at this point.

[rockout]

This game should be over.

[Bardo]

This is actually a fascinating game.

[Whit3 Ghost]

This is actually a fascinating game.
It really is.

[Wobbles The Goose]

The game would be over if he Forced the Snuff Out.

Only if Cheung doesn't topdeck a creature. If Cheon forced the Snuff out he would have left himself with no cards in hand with a trinket mage in play with his opponent with 3 top decks to get an out of another snuff out or a creature.

Cheon has played this perfectly. He is a master.

[Pinder]

It really is.

Agreed. Paul should have won a long time ago, but the current situation is absolutely fascinating.

edit - Hey Randy: The Trop is in is hand.

[rockout]

I agree interesting. I don't think a lot of people who don't know the format want to play it because you can get decked under a standstill.

[Nihil Credo]

Did Cheung have the Grip or not?

EDIT: Last Tropical was locked in his hand by Wasteland. Oh, the funny.

[Pinder]

Did Cheung have the Grip or not?

Yes, but his only green was in his hand, and would have gotten Wasted.

edit - Unless he did it main phase without passing priority. But then Paul actually is up 3 cards.

[rockout]

Deck Him! Dang!

Awesome match.

[Bardo]

Great fucking game.

[Artowis]

That was legit interesting. Well played by Cheung.

[Pinder]

Oh shit guys, Dreadstill's a real deck again.

edit - Haha, "Dreadnaught never even came up that game."

[KillemallCFH]

America wins.

I agree with Nihil that you let the Snuff Out resolve. Playing the Standstill in the first place might've been an error.

[Atwa]

Great game indeed.

[Jaiminho]

Oh shit guys, Dreadstill's a real deck again.

No, it still sucks.

[Nihil Credo]

Awesome. Props to Cheon (who also looks like a genuinely likable guy).

Another funny thing is that I remember from the deck tech Cheon saying he had never had to break his own Standstill, in a tone sort of "why would such a crazy thing ever happen to me?".

[Ectoplasm]

gg :)

[Brad Herbig]

Congrats to Cheon! That was an epic game.

[KillemallCFH]

No, it still sucks.The Source Tournament, Worlds, and... every other tournament Dreadstill has Top8'd disagrees with you.

[rockout]

Legacy in the lime light for even a little while is great to see.

[TeKo]

Bad Point: Bad Deck wins
Good Point: Bad Deck lost

Don't really understand:
They said something like 15 cards in one Deck(USA) and 18 in the other.
AUS -3 (Still)
USA -1 (BS)
later
USA -1 fetch

So AUS should have more cards in lib.
Or was it 15(AUS) and 18 (USA)?
And AUS could grip the Factory to survive.

[Deviruchi]

Now we need to wait till GP to see some videos ;> Gz Cheon

[frogboy]

The Source Tournament, Worlds, and... every other tournament Dreadstill has Top8'd disagrees with you.

People say things like this and then go and cite all these tournaments where the Dreadnought package was actually pretty irrelevant if you bother to read the reports.

[Enigma]

And what you think is a good deck Teko... Seriously people should stop speaking like they were knowing everything about Legacy. Dreadstill and Team america are both really good deck with pretty fast solutions to knock down opponents.

Congratz to both finalists.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I think it's legitimately difficult to call Dreadstill a bad deck at this point. I'm still not a huge fan of the name sake, but if it works it works. Two turn clocks requrie gambles, I guess.

[Whit3 Ghost]

That Extended 5c Control Deck is rad.

[Nihil Credo]

People say things like this and then go and cite all these tournaments where the Dreadnought package was actually pretty irrelevant if you bother to read the reports.
Like Demigod in It's the Fear? Except for the tournaments, I mean.

Zings aside, I still find it hard to believe people badmouth Dreadnought on a regular basis. Even discounting the results, we regularly two-for-one ourselves to cheapen Counterspell from UU to 1 life. Doing the same for approximately a 7GGG discount on a fattie shouldn't look so crazy.

[frogboy]

Like Demigod in It's the Fear? Except for the tournaments, I mean.

I don't think Demigod is the best deck in the format and I'm not convinced it's the best approach for the archtype; I just think it's better than most people give it credit for.


I still find it hard to believe people badmouth Dreadnought on a regular basis. Even discounting the results, we regularly two-for-one ourselves to cheapen Counterspell from UU to 1 life. Doing the same for approximately a 7GGG discount on a fattie shouldn't look so crazy.

Swords to Plowshares doesn't counter Force of Will.

[Whit3 Ghost]

I think it's legitimately difficult to call Dreadstill a bad deck at this point. I'm still not a huge fan of the name sake, but if it works it works. Two turn clocks requrie gambles, I guess.
I think Rodney's list is good, but the 3c lists with no Trinket Mage and only 3 Dreadnaught don't actually play Naught enough to make it relevant.

And ps, whoever said it, that flannel is fly.

[Elfrago]

Yes, but his only green was in his hand, and would have gotten Wasted.

edit - Unless he did it main phase without passing priority. But then Paul actually is up 3 cards.

Correct me if I'm wrong but...

... should'nt Cheung have fetched it's last Trop with standstill trigger on stack (to avoid the slight chance of drawing it) ?

He had already drawn it when the trigger was on the stack. And if he had fetched it before, it would have been Wasted. - NC

[Zach Tartell]

Wait - 5c Control maindecks RWM?

x2 at least?

[Nihil Credo]

Swords to Plowshares doesn't counter Force of Will.

And Force of Will doesn't directly win the game if unanswered - it's risk vs. reward.


Wait - 5c Control maindecks RWM?

x2 at least?
x4. I asked around and it's a recent innovation. Decklists (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/worlds08/top8decks).

[Zach Tartell]

And Jund charm too? I'm confused.

[freakish777]

And Jund charm too? I'm confused.

Obviously you use it to put +1/+1 counters on the Monk...

[Nihil Credo]

Wow. I blinked and the game was over. How did Malin overcome that gassy hand?

[Zach Tartell]

Wow. I blinked and the game was over. How did Malin overcome that gassy hand?

Beano.

[Artowis]

Wow. I blinked and the game was over. How did Malin overcome that gassy hand?

V. Clique on Cryptic #1, sower on Rhox War Monk #1, then Thoughtseize on Cryptic #2 and terror on War Monk #2, and throw down BB. Jamie didn't draw Wrath or Jund Charm and lost miserably.

[Zach Tartell]

Why was what's-his-face floating mana?

[Whit3 Ghost]

Why was what's-his-face floating mana?
Painland.

[Artowis]

Why was what's-his-face floating mana?

Announcers are just retarded. As per the course.

[Zach Tartell]

Announcers are just retarded. As per the course.

Jesus fuck, they're bad. I could do better. And I'd even work for minimum wage.

[Artowis]

Jesus fuck, they're bad. I could do better. And I'd even work for minimum wage.

The funny part is that it was this terrible last year and I wrote an entire article criticizing the coverage to no avail. It took skill to be -this- bad. They spend more time on nicknames and stupid references and side conversations than covering the actual game.

[Artowis]

Malin just crushed Parke in g3. Double time walk off that cryptic.

[Nihil Credo]

Faeries is an odd deck. First it gets the card advantage, and then it wrecks your tempo.

[Van Phanel]

How lucky for Malin to draw that swamp.

[ForceofWill]

I wonder how many people will play dreadstill at GP: Chicago just because of the results at worlds.

[Eldariel]

W00t, I'm gonna High 5 Malin as soon as he gets back home! And punch him for doing it with Faeries while at it.

[Van Phanel]

So why did he play Sprite over saccing Archmage? This would lose to Remove Soul right there.

[Nihil Credo]

I would guess that Archmage is a chump-blocker that doesn't get removed by sweepers. Also Sprite increases his clock, and it wasn't likely to get another chance to counter something in Sprite range.

EDIT: Congratulations to Antti Malin and his Archmages.

[Van Phanel]

I would guess that Archmage is a chump-blocker that doesn't get removed by sweepers. Also Sprite increases his clock, and it wasn't likely to get another chance to counter something in Sprite range.

In theory yes, but practically the only possible sweeper was Jund Charm and he could have countered that with the Sprite.

The point about the clock stands though.

[Artowis]

I would guess that Archmage is a chump-blocker that doesn't get removed by sweepers. Also Sprite increases his clock, and it wasn't likely to get another chance to counter something in Sprite range.

EDIT: Congratulations to Antti Malin and his Archmages.

Correct-o. And once again we bow to our Faerie overlords in STD.

[Eldariel]

Faeries went 3-4 in Top 8 matches though so it's not as if it dominated the Top 8 (and did relatively poorly in the Standard portition - most of the Top 8 players got their points from Draft and Extended instead). In fact, Malin was the only Faerie-player to win anything.

[Artowis]

Faeries went 3-4 in Top 8 matches though so it's not as if it dominated the Top 8 (and did relatively poorly in the Standard portition - most of the Top 8 players got their points from Draft and Extended instead). In fact, Malin was the only Faerie-player to win anything.

Yeah and Parke went 2-3-1 in the standard portion. Fae is just the defacto best deck in the format really. Maybe R/W will overtake it eventually, IDK, but there's really no other way to defend any other deck. As this is a Legacy board and STD is largely irrel for the next couple of months, that's all I'll mention about it. All I know is that the format sucks right now.

[Swing4Five]

I wonder how many people will play dreadstill at GP: Chicago just because of the results at worlds.

I wonder how much the price of Dreadnaughts is going to climb by that point.