[Possible Deck?] UGW Goodstuff

[Brad Herbig]

I have been working with Thresh and its varients and came up with something not quite Thresh, but similar. It seems to work all of its gameplans fairly well, and is a pretty consistent aggro control deck. Here is the list I have been testing:

-----------------------
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
2 Island
1 Forest

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Meddling Mage
3 Gaddock Teeg

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Aether Vial
4 Standstill
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
-----------------------

Basically, there is the blue shell, Countertop, Vial/Factory/Standstill strategy, and efficient creatures with relevant abilities, all of whom can be vialed in at 2, leaving mana open for topping, brainstorming, or swordsing.

I don't know the loss of the LD package in Thresh is worth the versatility of this deck, but both run similarly, and similarly well.

[frenchy-man]

vial with only 11 creatures :confused: ...?

[Henrik]

Looks pretty sweet. Don't know if the good-stuff creature's is worth small bodies, compared to threshvariants, TA and dreadstill though. What is exactly your plan with mage and teeg? A litte more explanation would be nice.

Have you considered spellstutter sprite? It adds to the number of free counters with a vial constant at 2.

[Koala]

3 Gaddock Teeg
4 Aether Vial
4 Standstill
3 Counterbalance




I had played with a similar list, except for the cards quoted and was 1º at 40 players champ
I played with 3 life from the loam and some wastelands. i would play with 2 mystic enforcer or exalted angel , with a genesis, but i don't know if this is a need.

[Henrik]

If you run a single genesis and loam engine, wouldn't you also want intution as tutor (and threshold-enabler)? Much good the one genesis will do you otherwise =)

[Koala]

If you run a single genesis and loam engine, wouldn't you also want intution as tutor (and threshold-enabler)? Much good the one genesis will do you otherwise =)

i was considering it, but if you play intuition inthis deck, you will almost always get a loam +2 lands or 1 one land and genesis. in the mid game, if you already have a loam playing, your best choice will be 3 goyfs.

[Skeggi]

Gaddock Teeg + Force of Will =/= tech.

[Wobbles The Goose]

Gaddock Teeg + Force of Will =/= tech.

I don't see Teeg as being particularly useful, as he's blank against a ton of decks and only turns off FOW in other matches. I mean, I guess he's there for engineered explosives, which otherwise wrecks you, but I'm not sure if that justifies a maindeck slot, or if you wouldn't just want a threat that couldn't be explosived

Also, how is the Vial treating you? It seems super slow to not be able to use it for the 2 turns once you play it. With the exception of those two cards, it looks pretty much like a dreadnough/UGW thresh hybrid. I'd want to add a mystic enforcer into the mix, and maybe play with Nantuko monestary to make sure my manlands won manland fights.

[Brad Herbig]

Teeg was originally in there mainly for EE, but I think you are right; cutting of force probably isn't the best.

Aether vial actually has worked out very well for me. If I go turn 1 vial, turn 2 standstill, they pretty much have to break the standstill, at which point I can often play another one, or immediately set up counter top. Also, with the current version, if I can get a vial into play, I can consistently play any of my creatures at instant speed (flashing in goyf is a nice surprise block). I might want to bring the number of vials down to 3, because I want to see it every game, but not really in multiples.

I may add a couple Nantuko monestarys though. Mystic Enforcer is good, maybe as a 2 of? I don't know... I need to go now, but thanks for the input!

[Koala]

I may add a couple Nantuko monestarys though. Mystic Enforcer is good, maybe as a 2 of

yeah, in think that too. 2 of both is a good one.





Aether vial actually has worked out very well for me. If I go turn 1 vial, turn 2 standstill, they pretty much have to break the standstill, at which point I can often play another one, or immediately set up counter top. Also, with the current version, if I can get a vial into play, I can consistently play any of my creatures at instant speed (flashing in goyf is a nice surprise block). I might want to bring the number of vials down to 3, because I want to see it every game, but not really in multiples.


vial will work just for goyf?you will not need play chalice and play MM or gaddock instant speed. You could play Loam and Witness, I didn't play with it, but i think it could work

[Enigma]

Is your forest a mistake? Maybe rather put a plains which you could fetch for.

Also, I don't feel the daze really good in this list. No stifles, no wastelands. By the fact your mana is opened because of vial, maybe you should just go with Spell snare or Counterspell.

+ finding a replacement MD for Gaddock and put it in SB.

[Jeff Kruchkow]

However Gaddock Teeg is amazing against every combo deck　out there and flashing it out while they are mid combo is quite hilarious. Also, the deck could take a more thresh approach and run the Mongeese for something to do with vial @ 1.

[Brad Herbig]

Well, after looking at possible creatures to add, I found one that is pretty much orgasmic in the legacy format. It costs 2, is in my colors, has a decent cost to power ratio, and has two quite relevant abilities.

Azorius Guildmage.

Explaination needed?

[Elfrago]

Well, after looking at possible creatures to add, I found one that is pretty much orgasmic in the legacy format. It costs 2, is in my colors, has a decent cost to power ratio for other formats, and has two quite relevant abilities that I will never use due to their hefty activation cost.

Azorius Guildmage.



Fixed.
I'd rather play something like Rhox War Monk, Swans, Watchwolf, kitchen Finks, Moongeese...

[hi-val]

Teeg can be replaced by Canonist.

Stormscape Apprentice is a cheaper version of Azorius that breaks up Tarmogoyf stalemates and is actually a total pain in the ass to deal with when it hits. Plus, yay, another one-drop!

[Brad Herbig]

Fixed.
I'd rather play something like Rhox War Monk, Swans, Watchwolf, kitchen Finks, Moongeese...

I don't know about this. You need to look at the card in terms of its context. In a vacuum, yes, those other cards would be great. But in this deck, a 2/2 for two (vial) that does a lot, tapped or not, is really good. And 3 mana for those abilities is not too expensive to be unusable. Tapping their creature (or creatures, depending on how late in the game) for 3 while still being able to swing for 2 is good. The tapping part of Stormscape Apprentice just seems like way too much of a drawback in limiting your options. And countering activated abilities, even for 3, is good in a deck that often has its mana open.

Canonist, however, seems like it might be a good choice. Vialing creatures under the canonist rule of law seems good.

[idraleo]

Exalted Angel seems a good call instead of Teeg. It avoids Moat, EE, keeps an high life count against aggroish. Azorius looks pretty by itself, moreover to the tap ability that the other else...

[jbmulder]

I tried to play a UGW goodstuff deck at the last legacy tourney I went to and it didn't turn out really well. My average CMC was too high. When I started to change stuff I ended up with a decklist similar to yours but with Wasteland and Stifle.

4 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
2 Island
1 Forest

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Meddling Mage
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Serra Avenger

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Aether Vial
4 Standstill
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Stifle


Meddling Mage maindeck is really underrated. You can usually tell what kind of deck you're up against pretty fast Game 1, so he's not dead, and he's that much better Games 2 and 3.

I can see Teeg being switched our for Canonist but I haven't done much testing with Canonist.

I want to be pretty proactive with Stifle and Standstill doesn't help there. I may have to change that but I like the idea.

[Wobbles The Goose]

Turn one vial turn two standstill is great, but it's a fairly rare play. It'd be even more rare if you dropped the number on vials. I really don't think vial is worth it for this deck. Vial is typically good if you have a variety of casting costs so that you can repeatedly use it and ramp it towards higher costs. As it is, if you don't have a turn one vial, it's almost certainly going to be entirely useless until turn 4+. By that point you can cast your creature and still have two mana up. After all, you don't have any spell in your deck that costs over two mana and you are running 21 lands. Are you really worried about tapping two mana to play a creature? What are you holding all that mana open for during your opponents turn?

Cutting the the vials opens the deck up, teeg/meddling mage are only good in certain matchups are best left in the sideboard. With standstill you really want to have wastelands and factories, otherwise you lose under a standstill against decks that do have wastelands and factories (stax, other standstill decks, etc). That's not good.

In the end, I think you'd be better off with NQG/w, one of the most consistently awesome decks in the format:

traditional: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?p=176940#post176940

funky: http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11901

I just don't see the vial/standstill plan being all that advantagous, and meddling mage/teeg are best left to the sideboard.

[Koala]

I was working on that list yesterday
It seems very good to me, because i like many of that cards ^^


3 Mishra's Factory
2 Nantuko Monastery
3 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath
3 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
1 Savannah
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Plain

4 Tarmogoyf
3 Trinket Mage
3 DreadNought

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Stifle
3 Life from the Loam
2 Enginnered Explosives
1 Sensei divining top
1 Echoing Truth

Please, i would like some coments.

[Glorfindel]

Gaddock Teeg + Force of Will =/= tech.Fortunately, Force of Will is blue, so it can always be pitched to Force of W .... oh right.
Anyway, you can Brainstorm/Top -> Fetch it back in your library.

[Pulp_Fiction]

I never got around to testing this list very much but I played it against Eva Green and destroyed it, but I got sidetracked by Eternal Garden. Anyway, the list is:

4x Trygon Predator
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Loxodon Hierarch
4x Serendib Efreet

4x Brainstorm
4x Swords
3x Jitte
2x Engineered Explosives
2x Ponder
4x Force of Will
2x Vedalken Shackles

4x Flooded Strand
4x Windswept Heath
4x Tropical Island
4x Tundra
2x Savannah
1x Forest
2x Island
1x Plains
1x Academy Ruins

The deck was suprisingly strong. It could probably use a little tweaking but as it is the deck is really solid. Trygon Predator is a fucking house!!! A VERY underutilized creature. Same with Hierarch, people always scoff and say he isn't right for the format, I have to respectfully disagree.

[Koala]

This list is pretty, but:
3 Jitte? you run StP, EE and shcakles. I think you could put some stifles or leak or C.Spell.
2 Ponder? Stifle on it!




4x Trygon Predator
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Loxodon Hierarch
4x Serendib Efreet

4x Brainstorm
4x Swords
3x Jitte
2x Engineered Explosives
2x Ponder
4x Force of Will
2x Vedalken Shackles

4x Flooded Strand
4x Windswept Heath
4x Tropical Island
4x Tundra
2x Savannah
1x Forest
2x Island
1x Plains
1x Academy Ruins

[Pulp_Fiction]

I can't really defend the list since I didn't test much. I don't think Stifle is right for that particular build though. It is somewhat tempo oriented but, it just doesn't seem to fit. My goal was to build a deck that really doesn't run out of steam, even when its in topdeck mode everything it draws needs to be relevant, thats why I am not a fan of Stifle since in the late game it only delays the inevitable and early on a Stifle on a fetch or something really shouldn't be that relevant since this deck can't put the opponent on a serious clock until turns 3-5. Not that it isn't capable of winning fast, it is, but Stifle just doesn't seem right. Certainly belongs in the SB though if playing against combo.

Jitte is in there because ... its Jitte! You could probably go -1 Jitte and +1 Sword of Fire and Ice or Light and Shadow, personally I would play Light and Shadow since the deck can have problems with early Tombstalker (what decks don't).

I suppose the 2x Ponder could be 2x Sensei's Divining Top. Everything I am saying is based off a playing the deck a few times, but the more I think about it the better Top would be.

[Isamaru]

How is Vialing in a Goyf a surprise block? Anyone stupid enough to walk into it without expecting it deserves to suffer the consequences. If they were accounting for it as a possibility, it wouldn't hurt that much anyway.

[Brad Herbig]

How is Vialing in a Goyf a surprise block? Anyone stupid enough to walk into it without expecting it deserves to suffer the consequences. If they were accounting for it as a possibility, it wouldn't hurt that much anyway.
The thing is that it could happen. You could have the goyf or you could not. Because they don't know, they have to make more cautious decisions, letting you get ahead.

[Windux]

3 Trygon Predator
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Serendib Efreet
2 Rafiq of the Many
2 Jotun Grunt

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Swords of Light and Shadow (Protection from Tombstalker + Smother/Swords (most Removal))
4 Force of Will
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Vedalken Shackles

4 Flooded Strand
4 Windswept Heath
4 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
1 Forest
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Academy Ruins

Thats the List I would play.

17 creatures.
Rafiq of the Many is just so awesome!
Even with that many creatures, you just need 1 flying creature to beat over all boardcreatures and stil can block good enough.
The 2 of Jotun Grunt is because we won't get the graveyard that full fast enough to play him early. Maybe it can be Meddling Mage with another 2 in the Sideboard.

I think 20 lands are enough. I jused the space to fill in the remaining 2 Ponder. Cardqualitiy in enormous.

What do you guys think?

[idraleo]

17 blue cards = epic fail

Grunt seems useless, and SoLS too. Running Sower of Temptation seems a good call to handle on Tombstalker, and also Vendillion clique is simply awsome to know opponent's hand and add percentual against comboish.

[Windux]

There are 20 blue cards.
SoLaS gives a more aggroish style.
You may play Jitte instead.
Maybe we should cut Efreet for Cliques.

Why does Grunt seems useless?
It's a good beater, which gives us no disadvantage (No Mongoose).
With 2 Grutns main, you only need 2 more in your Sideboard, which gives you 2 Sideboardslots...a big beater, which can be good against Loam, Ichorid (Gnaa...not really as a 2-off), Ruins etc. seems ok, I mean 2cc 4/4 ;)

[idraleo]

Grunt is a stupid 4/4 for 2 mana that doesn' t really impact the board. There' s plenty of better card to go to. I don' t see the reason to go with Jitte or other equipments, i' d rather tons of time a better way to control the stack as Counterbalance...

[Koala]

There are 20 blue cards.
SoLaS gives a more aggroish style.
You may play Jitte instead.
Maybe we should cut Efreet for Cliques.


I think that goyf and trinket/Nought it's better than any creature in this deck. Run Efreet and Cliques go turn this deck in a version of Faeries, and gw can offer you more good stuffs in the places of. I'm trying to run MM too, but goyf and noight to me is a need.



Why does Grunt seems useless?
No, it's not.