Banned and Restricted List: December 19 2008

[Giles]

Nothing Happen. Go about your day.

Link Here (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/17c)

Only truly thing of note: they changed the dates for the announcement. Alas, it really is arbitrary what day they pick.

[Elfrago]

I went to the official site and when I saw Worldgorger Dragon on the main page I thught "Damn! Dragon is back!"

^^

[AngryTroll]

Nice, that's a welcome relief. I mean, really, the candidates were LED, Top, and Counterbalance, and the metagame seems pretty healthy with all three of them as they are. Worlds last weekend (although probably too late to really influence this decision) seemed pretty fair and balanced.

[Pulp_Fiction]

Damn, I really wanted Counterbalance banned, not because I hate playing against it, because I always have KGrip and Choke in the SB but because it makes games less interesting and more boring. Aside from that, the format is pretty balanced. I would like to see Entomb or Mind's Desire unbanned but that certainly won't happen as things are fine as they are.

[Eatatjoes]

Crazy. I thought they would have made some sort of change, whether it be banning/unbanning something, they kinda hyped it up by pushing back the date, as if they were seeing if they needed more time for something... WEAK

[Julian23]

Crazy. I thought they would have made some sort of change, whether it be banning/unbanning something, they kinda hyped it up by pushing back the date, as if they were seeing if they needed more time for something... WEAK

Wrong. Taking more time to make a decision doesn't mean this will eventually lead to a change. Deciding not to change anything is a decision that might take some time (read: after worlds).

[Sek'Kuar]

Just taking a little time to think things over and ensure you make the right decision is a good idea. It may be one of the smartest things Wizards has done in a while.

[frolll]

It may be one of the smartest things Wizards has done in a while.

QFT.

[Ebinsugewa]

Just taking a little time to think things over and ensure you make the right decision is a good idea. It may be one of the smartest things Wizards has done in a while.

It's not even like anything is even wrong with the format, I wouldn't give them credit for doing absolutely nothing.

[Soulles]

I know it is not the right forum to vent. But i really thought/hoped they would change that elf deck in extended.

I was really looking forword to the PTQ extended season ;/

[Bardo]

The format's in a good place; a good thing they left well enough alone.

[Zach Tartell]

As a not-blue player, I maintain that they should bann LED.

But not honestly. I like Legacy like it is.

[b4r0n]

It's not even like anything is even wrong with the format, I wouldn't give them credit for doing absolutely nothing.

This. Although, to be fair, it sounds like they aren't even thinking about bans until after the GP. Smart move. Seems that they learn from their mistakes.

[Bryant Cook]

Enough of this discussion. You might give Wizards bad ideas.

[irrelevant]

I went to the official site and when I saw Worldgorger Dragon on the main page I thught "Damn! Dragon is back!"

^^

yeah i had the same idea i was like time to brush off my animate deads

[Valtrix]

So, I was looking at some of the banned cards, and was curious to see what would happen if some of them were unbanned. I can see how lots of the cards got banned, but with today's kind of better/faster metagame they might not be so gamebreaking anymore.

As everybody says though, don't fix something that isn't broken. I really don't think they're going to touch Legacy unless something really does become a problem (Which it hasn't yet).

[Forbiddian]

They don't seem to work very hard to clean up the pointless bans, considering they "started from scratch."


I don't know how you start from scratch and ban Land Tax, for instance. Even with Tax/Rack out (barely cheaper than Painter's Grind, which wins the game), it's conditional, unlike CB/Top and provides less card advantage.

I also think metal worker should be back. I think it'd be overpowered in some decks, but I don't think those decks could be overpowered. The closest to broken I think it could get would be in Welder/Survival, but it's no harder to go: Goblin Welder, weld in my Sundering Titan than it is to go: Metal Worker, reveal a bunch of artifacts, cast Sundering Titan.

Dream Halls as well proved not overpowered in Type 1 (where there are draw 7s and fast enough mana to put a 5cc enchantment on the table). Especially in light of Ad Nauseum not being banned (which wins the game for 3BB), I can't imagine why Dream Halls still has the axe (which only enables your deck for 3UU).


Anyway, I'm sure Wizards has a reason for why these three interesting, balanced cards are banned. They started from scratch, after all.

[Shriekmaw]

Damn, I really wanted Counterbalance banned, not because I hate playing against it, because I always have KGrip and Choke in the SB but because it makes games less interesting and more boring. Aside from that, the format is pretty balanced. I would like to see Entomb or Mind's Desire unbanned but that certainly won't happen as things are fine as they are.


They will never banned Counterbalance, if there is a card that they ban, it will be Sensei's Divining Top. If Top goes then LED will also go, because doing one or the other would just be stupid and lead to an unbalanced format.

[jazzykat]

I continuously ask for the unbanning of metalworker, such is life...

[Sanguine Voyeur]

If Top goes then LED will also go, because doing one or the other would just be stupid and lead to an unbalanced format.LED existed in a format without Counterbalance before and combo didn't run rampant.

[Citrus-God]

I continuously ask for the unbanning of metalworker, such is life...

I want them to unban Mishra's Workshop and ban Trinisphere. Now that is life.

[Sek'Kuar]

It's not even like anything is even wrong with the format, I wouldn't give them credit for doing absolutely nothing.

This is true, but I'm not giving them credit for making the right decision. I'm giving them credit for not making the wrong decision.

[Ectoplasm]

If counterbalance got kicked out of the format right this instant I wouldn't shed a tear.

[Bryant Cook]

They will never banned Counterbalance, if there is a card that they ban, it will be Sensei's Divining Top. If Top goes then LED will also go, because doing one or the other would just be stupid and lead to an unbalanced format.

This is ridiculous. Combo loses to cards other than Counter/top; you don't need to lock every opponent you play out of the game by playing 2 cards. Team America and versions of tempo Threshold do just fine against TES without playing counter top. Discard does fine too, hell even burn does fairly well now thanks to Ad Nauseum requiring life. My point being, I don't care one way or another if Counter/top gets the axe, but it doesn't need to include LED to keep a balanced format. People who play Counter/top need to learn to deal with cards/matchups without a cheap and non-interactive answer.

[Atwa]

This is ridiculous. Combo loses to cards other than Counter/top; you don't need to lock every opponent you play out of the game by playing 2 cards. Team America and versions of tempo Threshold do just fine against TES without playing counter top. Discard does fine too, hell even burn does fairly well now thanks to Ad Nauseum requiring life. My point being, I don't care one way or another if Counter/top gets the axe, but it doesn't need to include LED to keep a balanced format. People who play Counter/top need to learn to deal with cards/matchups without a cheap and non-interactive answer.

Oh so true.

When Legacy was formed, Counterbalance wasn't even printed and combo wasn't unbalanced at the time. Sure, the combo decks have grown a lot stronger over time, but I still feel it wouldn't do disrutive things to the metagame.

Sure, we'll get a shift, but it won't be as bad as some people feel. I remember when the first list was formed, people were like: "combo will reign this format, 4x LED, 4x Lotus Petal and 4x Chrome Mox is sick!". After a few months the strongest decks were Goblins, Landstill and Solidarity. All decks which play none of these cards.

I'd rather adjust my decks a little for the combo matchup (along with my sideboards), than having to almost scoop game 1 to a turn 2 countertop in 40% of the matches I play.

[Happy Gilmore]

I'm very happy to have no surprises. Nothing needs to be banned, if anything I can see many cards being unbanned namely:


landtax
Earthcraft
Entomb

this is nothing new

[Atwa]

This is ridiculous. Combo loses to cards other than Counter/top; you don't need to lock every opponent you play out of the game by playing 2 cards. Team America and versions of tempo Threshold do just fine against TES without playing counter top. Discard does fine too, hell even burn does fairly well now thanks to Ad Nauseum requiring life. My point being, I don't care one way or another if Counter/top gets the axe, but it doesn't need to include LED to keep a balanced format. People who play Counter/top need to learn to deal with cards/matchups without a cheap and non-interactive answer.

Oh so true.

When Legacy was formed, Counterbalance wasn't even printed and combo wasn't unbalanced at the time. Sure, the combo decks have grown a lot stronger over time, but I still feel it wouldn't do disrutive things to the metagame.

Sure, we'll get a shift, but it won't be as bad as some people feel. I remember when the first list was formed, people were like: "combo will reign this format, 4x LED, 4x Lotus Petal and 4x Chrome Mox is sick!". After a few months the strongest decks were Goblins, Landstill and Solidarity. All decks which play none of these cards.

I'd rather adjust my decks a little for the combo matchup (along with my sideboards), than having to almost scoop game 1 to a turn 2 countertop in 40% of the matches I play.

EDIT: ok, you can say I could also adjust my decks for countertop, but playing 4 maindeck Grips only because countertop reigns feels stupid. I'd rather play more discard or Chants, you know, cards which aren't useless aginst other decks.

Still I'd rather lose a few games to a good combo player who comboes out perfectly on turn 1/2 than having to sit across a stupid and way too easy to play softlock played in way too many decks.