Book Grinder

[Gibbie_X]

Ok, I looked all over for a deck like this. I searched through Forums and Threads and individual posts. I haven't seen one yet, and I don't think I will. I don't think it would fit in as a Deadguy Ale dead, or any other :b::w: deck. Granted, they have many of the same starter cards those decks have, but those decks rely on a critter to swing for the win.
This is a combo deck, but removes the need for an Imperial Recruiter, which, as everyone knows, is too rare and too expensive. I don't think it necessary to have it in a deck with this easy a mechanism.
This deck has can stay for the long hall, or pop off first turn, but that would require three Dark Rituals so I don't think it's any faster than Ad Nausem. Let me know what you guys think....

Lands
5 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scrubland
2 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Plains (1)
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Creatures
3 Painter's Servant
4 Dark Confidant

Spells
3 Grindstone
4 Duress
4 Dark Ritual
4 Vindicate
4 Enlightened Tutor
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Hymn to Tourach
1 Ghostly Prison
2 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Deathgrip

I have always loved Grindstone. I thought it was so much better than Mill Stone. I own four, and never found a deck to put them in until now. When I heard they had soared in value, I laughed my ass off.

The obvious flaws sit with this deck as most low cost decks. Chalice and Trinispere, the lowly Bastards. Vindicate saves the day here, even possibly adding Oblivion Ring if you dislike the match-up that much. Dark Confident fueled, this deck saves you from taking a Tombstalker to your own dome. Granted, you can side the combo out and go beats.

Now when it comes to Enlightened Tutor, I love the quick and dirty way it gets you either piece of the combo for a minimal amount of mana and fuss. I understand the inherent card disadvantage this tutor has, but access to both parts makes it better than Imperial Recruiter and Trinket Mage in my opinion. With a :w: cost at instant speed, you also have the chance to save a piece from discard, something neither of those cards do.

The Deathgrip synergy makes me laugh, especially since I can tutor it as well. If the late game goes a little nuts, you can sit behind that. If this should have been a Deadguy Variant, sorry mods, but I think don't think its fits there, or in the other Painter decks. To many other 'Named' decks are just regurgitation of the same cards, not really changing the actual structure or purpose. The deck searches for the kill, helps you draw the kill fast, helps protect the the combo and help get it to the ground and pumping.

[Mordenkaynen]

Some little thoughts:

- at first glance at least 1 O.ring seems like an auto-include since it makes e.tutor-toolbox much more stronger. Sometimes it's much better to remove EE from the game;

- you can add 1 vault of whispers;

- Unmask is not quite good here may be, but it makes e.tutor much stronger since you can open the op.'s hand and tutor for a hate card the same turn; it also avoids Chalice;

- bitterblossom is a very flexible card and can be used for aggressive plan especially when you played Unmask/Thoughtseize/Duress first turn and find that the way is free;

- it's not reasonable to play rituals as I can see (it's rediculous to hope to get two or three with both combo pieces and not much other cards require so much black mana);

- you gain much pain: fetches, thoughtseizes, Bob. I think that late game is not your choise;

- Runed Halo may be even more useful than O.ring because it deals with Dreadnaught and other fatties faster and also slows down many comboes;

- this is not a deck to be compaired with Imperial Painter since the latter one is a "stompy" with hard board-control and combo-finish and you deck looks closer to combo with mixed control-elements. I think that the good point is to be absolutely proactive but I'm not sure that a lone way to win is a good deal.

[Gibbie_X]

Life is a vital point, especially with the Confidants, but I am only running four fetchies, and with Urborg, I don't even need to crack them. Personally, I am, and will always be, a fan of Duress, so keeping my Thoughtseize count low so I see only one when I need it. Black is notorious for dropping there life fairly quickly and not really caring, I mean, look at Pox. You are right, Ring should be main, it is that good. And the frightening part, I was contemplating a main deck Halo for Dreadnought. Swordsing that beast is also an option since I'm not targeting there life total.

So Version 2:
- 4 Dark Rituals
+ 1 Oblivion Ring
+ 1 Runed Halo
+ 2 Argivian Find
+ 1 Plains

Since this almost doubles my white need, I'm adding one Plains, bringing my count to 61. It's becoming my new favorite number for decks.

[Isamaru]

I like this. Consider playing 1x EE to find too.

Take out Dark Ritual for Chrome Mox, or cards you are trying to fit in like Oblivion Ring, etc.

[odabella]

I tested a similar list some weeks ago independent from this.
Ok, this was just a rough first try.

creatures [13]

4 Dark Confidant
4 Painter's Servant
3 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Hypnotic Specter

sorcery

4 Duress
2 Thoughtseize
4 Hym tu Tourach

instant [11]

4 Enlightened Tutor
3 Ad Nauseum
4 Dark Ritual


artifact [4]

4 Grindstone

1 Oblivion Ring

land [21]

4 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Plains
4 Scrubland
6 Swamps

60 cards
Sideboard:

4 Swords to Plowshares

3 Nantuko Shade
3 Tombstalker
1 Vindicate
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Crucible of Worlds

2-0 NQGw : Ad N and the transformable Sideboard worked very well in this match.

0-2 Boros : No chance to protect the painter!

Tidehollow Sculler didn't convince me (Tried it because it was new.)

Maybe Mother of Runes is an addition to protect the painter.

Now I am thinking about a total different list with the weird idea to combine it with Ad N + Tendrils.

EDIT:

I've thrown this pile together yet. At least it's funny. But I have no ideas for the sideboard so far.

creatures [11]

4 Dark Confidant
4 Painter's Servant
3 Mother of Runes

sorcery [12]

4 Duress
3 Diabolic Intent
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Tendrils of Agony

instant [13]

3 Enlightened Tutor
3 Ad Nauseum
4 Dark Ritual
3 Culling the Weak

artifact/enchantment [4]

3 Grindstone
1 Oblivion Ring

mana [20]

4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Scrubland
4 Swamp

[Gibbie_X]

The Mother of Runes is a GREAT add, I must say.

[Captain Hammer]

1.) One card that you should take a look at is Persecute. You get a much stronger effect than Deathgrips for the same 4 mana investment.

It's all around a solid card, easily 3 for 1ing your opponent under normal circumstances, even without Painter in play. But when you have a Painter in play, it just becomes cruel.

Yes, the deck does gain more a controllish feel to it. But what did you expect out of a BW deck.

2.) Given the current presense of Vindicate, Wasteland + Sinkhole probably warrant a look to really screw with other people's tempo.

3.) Oblivion Ring probably should be in here as a 2 of. The main problem cards are...

Chalice of the Void
Counterbalance
Trinisphere
Seal of Primordium
Big Cheap Creatures That Race You

Yes, Vindicate deals with all these cards, but you only play 4 Vindicate, so the odds of seeing it everytime that you need it seems low.

Given that, playing atleast 2 Oblivion Ring seems like a no-brainer.

I really like the deck overall.

4.) If the addition of these cards is making Confidant a bit of a risk. Fine, replace Confidant with Tombstalker. This gives you a strong alternative win condition altogether. Plus, it lets you cut Top out of the equation, giving you room for something like Phyrexian Arena instead.

[Hummingbird TG]

1.) One card that you should take a look at is Persecute. You get a much stronger effect than Deathgrips for the same 4 mana investment.

It's all around a solid card, easily 3 for 1ing your opponent under normal circumstances, even without Painter in play. But when you have a Painter in play, it just becomes cruel.

Yes, the deck does gain more a controllish feel to it. But what did you expect out of a BW deck.

Persecute costs 4. If your opponent still has any useful cards in hand and no Counterspells, likely they aren't playing a deck worth playing.


4.) If the addition of these cards is making Confidant a bit of a risk. Fine, replace Confidant with Tombstalker. This gives you a strong alternative win condition altogether. Plus, it lets you cut Top out of the equation, giving you room for something like Phyrexian Arena instead.

You're joking, right? The difference in the costs of Phyrexian Arena (3) and Bob (2) are huge. How many more lands would you be willing to play to support these high mana inclusions? (this and Persecute, that is) How much lategame manafloods are you risking?

[Gibbie_X]

Wow, I have an argument on my thread, I feel special, thanx guys....

@Captain:
Persecute is too expensive to have in the deck. I am using that idea in Extended though, so I appreciate it. But replacing Bob with Tombstalker is not sound at all. The deck really has no wayof feeding the beast either, since dropping him for :b::b: is so damn sweet.
This deck needs card drawing and filtering, which Bob/Top does. With as much disruption this deck runs, it hit's hard at first then lags for a little bit. If you take away the only way of speeding up, you have a deck that is not only bad, but no fun to play, because you just lose.

@Hummingbird:
I think Captain ha a half sound idea there with Arena. Bob is certainly a better card, being 2 and a stick with which to beat,but that is also a drawback. Spell Snare and Swords speak volumes against this card, and is quiet against Arena. I like the idea, but the :b::b: could hurt.

[Hummingbird TG]

Wow, I have an argument on my thread, I feel special, thanx guys....

@Hummingbird:
I think Captain ha a half sound idea there with Arena. Bob is certainly a better card, being 2 and a stick with which to beat,but that is also a drawback. Spell Snare and Swords speak volumes against this card, and is quiet against Arena. I like the idea, but the :b::b: could hurt.

You don't play acceleration. If you played Chrome Mox or Ritual, perhaps you could have had an argument. But you don't. And even if you did play Ritual, you can go Turn 1: Rit -> TSeize, Bob, but you can't do that with Arena. Chrome Mox lets you go Turn 1 Bob, but not turn 1 Arena. And everybody sideboards in Krosan Grip against Painter. You see where this is leading?

[Gibbie_X]

You don't play acceleration. If you played Chrome Mox or Ritual, perhaps you could have had an argument. But you don't. And even if you did play Ritual, you can go Turn 1: Rit -> TSeize, Bob, but you can't do that with Arena. Chrome Mox lets you go Turn 1 Bob, but not turn 1 Arena. And everybody sideboards in Krosan Grip against Painter. You see where this is leading?

I agree, Bob is better and quicker, I just was pointing out that creature removal is more prevalent main the enchantment removal. With the Mother though, makes it easier to protect. My original concept did have Rits, but I removed them on account of a previous post. With the tightness of the deck, I can't find what I would cut in order to play with Chrome Mox.

A few turn Bob would have definitely have to be dealt with fast, I'll give you that. First turn Bob, second turn Painter, Third turn Stone, win, could be sick.

What about Lotus Petal?

[dahcmai]

Absolute Law might help with Boros. It keeps things alive through burn. It happens to be tutorable also. I could see it being a solid addition to the board given it's low casting cost.