[DECK] Loam Pox

[GGoober]

This is a BG version of the deck Pox. The BW version is called Vaka Pox. Here's the thread on the development for BG Pox

First of all, why green, not white?

White:
Vindicate: Best targetted removal
StP: Best creature removal
Ghostly Prison: Stalls aggro

Green:
Life from the Loam: Easily the best land recursion engine, allows the deck to use Mox Diamonds, just as Aggro Loam does
Eternal Witness: Amazing card, especially with Volrath's Stronghold
Pernicious Deed: Best removal in the game.

Comparing both, I think that Vaka Pox is still a stronger build, but in an optimized build, Pernicious Deed + Witness + Loam + Volrath's Stronghold is easily the best board sweeper, with all the LD and disruption that Pox packs by nature.

Without further ado, here's the decklist for discussion and optimization:


Manabase (24 lands)
1 Forest
4 Swamp
2 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Bayou
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
3 Mox Diamond

Pox disruption
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
4 Sinkhole
2 Pox

Board control/threats
3 Life from the Loam
4 Pernicious Deed
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Eternal Witness
3 Tombstalker

Sideboard:
4 Engineered Plague
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Krosan Grip
4 ?? Meta dependent cards

The deck plays a little like BRG Aggro Loam but has the win condition with Tombstalker. I'm considering playing with Epochrasite insteads since they function as better consistent creatures, but Tombstalker is easily the best creature in Legacy right now next to Goyf. Eternal Witness is the heart of the deck, and works great with Loam + Stronghold as in all BG control builds. The 24 lands allow you to play comfortably with 3 Moxes.

Turn one Moxes allow for an earlier Pox, or a turn 1 hymn, but most importantly, it allows you to play your 3cc spells on second turn. Eternal Witness would be able to bring back another thoughtseize/Hymn.

Unlike other Pox builds, this build focuses intensively on disruption the first 2 turns, much like Eva Green or Sui Black. It does so at the cost of its own cards, but there's much more recursion, immediately, to land bombs and recurr threats than in Vaka Pox thanks to Loam + Witness + Stronghold.

Garruk, when resolved, helps in the Pox plan of things. He allows you to double your mana with his +1 ability, and he is unaffected by Pox or Pernicious Deed. Many people know of the Extended build with Garruk + Death Cloud, therefore Garruk serves as a similar role in this deck. He's very much playable thanks to Mox + Loam, and the GG isn't an issue in the deck. After a resolved Deeds/Pox, Garruk would start sending in beasts, untapping lands for continued disruption, and probably would win the game by himself.


Comments would be appreciated, and here are some issues to consider:
- Stifle hurting the manabase and Deed activation. We might want to play safe and run less fetches. And on the Deed activation, I think that we should activate only when necessary, when opponents are tapped out of blue. It will seem fairly obvious if he has a blue open. Or we can simply bait, with a fetchland. It's almost instinct to stifle a Fetchland, and losing a land isn't as bad as losing Deeds, unless you can't blow it up for the required mana

- Heavy aggro matchup. This deck may have problems v.s. Heavy aggro, but the sideboard with Engineered Plague would help. I'm a huge fan of Powder Keg, and I'm intending for this deck to go Poxless, and end up with Powder Kegs. Not sure what to remove. EE is another possibility with the manabase. All these are recurrable with Loam + Witness + stronghold.

[rleader]

Adding green makes pox better against the things it already beats, while it makes it weaker against the things it has difficulty against. I think any exploration of other colors has to take that into account.

My own thinking along those lines has primarily centered on root maze, although I haven't exactly stumbled onto a solution.

[Jaynel]

Your list is 4 cards short. I'd suggest 3 Life from the Loam and the 4th Mox Diamond.

[BenKossman]

No Goyf? Are you worried about bad synergy with Stalker?

[SuperBean]

Looks like it should just be Pox (Small Pox that is) with a splash of green for Deed, Goyf, and Krosan Grip in the board.

Seems like the most efficient?

[Gibbie_X]

I like that idea, but your list seems to be missing stuff.

The Eternal witness is a solid card, but the deck is based around a sorcery for :b::b::b: and the :g::g: could get ugly. How about Reclaim, or i would even throw in Gaea's Blessing, you can trip it with Loam, reshuffle you deck in. Just one of mind you. Garruk falls in that category as well. He could be sick solid in it, and pay for himself, but he still has :g::g: .

Most builds I have seen have Nether Spirit with Tombstalker as a two of. I never liked goyf, but with this sort of build, I don't know really. He can be a 'deal with me now or die' kind of card, and if you run the Stalker, you just feed dead ones to him. But you will kill him in short order with poxes, where with Spirit you can discard, sacrifice, and he just comes back, and when you have too man in the grave yard, feed one to Tombstalker, and bring the other one back!!!

I call it Gan Green:


Lands
8 Swamp
4 Bayou
1 Tomb of Urami
1 Cabal Pit
4 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Bloodstained Mire

Creatures
2 Tombstalker
3 Nether Spirit

Artifacts
4 Mox Diamond
2 Crucible of Worlds

Spells
3 Sinkhole
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Life from the Loam
1 Gaea's Blessing
4 Duress
4 Smallpox
4 Pox
2 Pernicious Deed

I am a huge fan of Duress, and in this case, where your life is up for grabs, that's eight possible life points when poxes and fetchlands can drop you too close to burn range. The only thing it won't grab is critters, and the poxes and Deed can handle them.

Possible board slots, I think would include Needles, Grips, Putrefy, Leyline, the usual.

[Pulp_Fiction]

Not to try and jack the thread or anything but would this deck be better as G/B Death Cloud? I played Vaka pox for a little while and I always found that when you cast Pox it usually hurts you just as bad as the opponent. I MUCH preferred the versions without Pox because I just found Small Pox to be better in almost every way! Pox is way to situational and if very iffy on killing multiple creatures that need dealing with. Death Cloud on the other hand just owns anything and everything it can without costing you an insane amount of life. Thoughts?

[Phoenix Ignition]

Cool idea, but a little late.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11794

[rleader]

Thoughts?

I disagree completely.

Eva-green is a good deck. Play it. Trying to force a middle ground between Pox and Green is just a bad idea, inferior to both, and you'll probably lose to both if they exist within your metagame.

I'll also still stand by the assertion that people who don't like pox [the card] are people who mainly don't play in actual tournaments (where your opponents paid entry fees and are bringing their A-Game) but base their testing off of single games online. You may be the lone exception; I have no idea.


never liked goyf, but with this sort of build, I don't know really. He can be a 'deal with me now or die' kind of card, and if you run the Stalker, you just feed dead ones to him

Eva Green has an advantage over pox against many combo decks: it isn't as disruptive, but then pox has to hit more disruption consistantly until it can get stalker out; whereas Green can present a clock almost immediately. As you say, goyf doesn't play nice with poxes, but that's where manlands come in. However, in order to play them effectively, you need to refine your manabase and that prevents tricks with Stronghold and whatnot.

[Mordenkaynen]

@ Pulp_Fiction
As for creature destroying, Damnation is much better than both Pox and Death Cloud @(>1). I don't know how to make a deck with Death Cloud working in a right way, but to be better than smallpox it would be cost >4 mana, and that's not fast enough in a deck with only mox diamond for acceleration (however, green allow exploration). Sure, if you have 5-6 lands the card is great since it reduce your lands to 3 (which is ok), destroys multiple creatures and hurts hands (actually do you want to discard all your hand?), but usually with 6 mana deed is enough for nonland permanents and there would be no sence to reduce lands in a such late-game.
Have I missed something?

[Captain Hammer]

I don't know how good Eternal Witness is, in a deck with 7 Pox effects that just make you sac it. The GG casting cost for Eternal Witness is also a big problem. It requires a much heavier green commitment than with the white splash. You could play Night's Whispers and draw two cards for one less mana instead.

LoftL is probably better than Crucible, but that can indeed be questionable. LoftL costs less mana to start, but eats up mana like crazy the more you use it and the longer the game goes, and this isn't a particularly fast deck.

Deed is cool, but it costs two turns of mana, and doesn't blow up lands like Vindicate does.

I do like the green build a lot too, but I think you were right on the money when you said that the white splash might be slightly better.

[GGoober]

For people who have played with Eternal Witness, her ability is more valuable if you can Slide her out or play her again, bringing whatever you need. So in the deck that involves a ton of stuff getting sacced, she does well.

Damn, I tried searching for a BG Pox thread and couldn't find one, but I guess there was an older thread. Sorry about that.

I personally don't think Goyf fits into the strategy of the deck. I would prefer Tombstalker as the win condition over Goyf anytime because he flies. Innocent blood does make a good addition, although I'm not sure what to cut off for it.

[Phoenix Ignition]

So I was wondering why there was no addition of Raven's Crime into this list. That was one of my soul reasons for making that thread a couple months ago. It's a ridiculously good card in pox as you can essentially make them unable to play any cards at all.

[GGoober]

Phoenix, I totally forgot about that card, and I've ordered 2 playsets because of its playability in loam decks.

If you're the creator of B/G Pox, mind bumping the old thread up for discussion? Otherwise we can just use this thread. The only change I see different from my list is the inclusion of Garruks. There's another Death Cloud thread going on right now, but I feel that Death Cloud < Pox in terms of disruption.

The basic shell of this deck is to use the Loam/Witness/Volrath engine to bring back any card from the yard, namely Deeds, Pox, Smallpox. Recurring not just lands via Loam, but the entire disruption engine via the deck's strategy is pretty harsh on opponents. Hitting GG isn't a problem in the deck due to Mox Diamonds, which I'm considering to upping to 4 copies. But hitting BBB for Pox is in general a problem if opponents play Wastelands + Stifles. Not sure if we should lower the fetchland manabase.

I had some testing against opponents, and Innocent Blood is a much needed card in the deck. THanks for the suggestions!

[Phoenix Ignition]

Phoenix, I totally forgot about that card, and I've ordered 2 playsets because of its playability in loam decks.

If you're the creator of B/G Pox, mind bumping the old thread up for discussion? Otherwise we can just use this thread. The only change I see different from my list is the inclusion of Garruks. There's another Death Cloud thread going on right now, but I feel that Death Cloud < Pox in terms of disruption.


My thread got derailed and died, I'm happy to see another one come back, so don't worry about that one, or if you like you can just post your list here on it and start this discussion up there. I would be happy to change the opening post for any changes you think are good for the deck.

I would agree that Death Cloud < Pox, especially in this shell, mainly because DC needs so many lands out to power it, and pox loves making the top number of lands you have out be 3. I'm a bit wary about your 4-of Thoughtseize just because Pox uses life like a resource. I realize there could be threats in their hand to be worried about early on (read: goyf), but if you ran innocent bloods as well, you should be perfectly fine for it.

I would also suggest adding in 1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, because this card is an absolute beast to dredge into (although pricey, so if you don't have one it's probably fine). I also suggest cutting 1 wasteland because you can dredge into it and only really need to hit 1 per game to keep a soft lock on them. Also, I know how hard it is to consistently get black mana in here, so the more swamps you can fit in the better.

As for creatures I agree that goyf just doesn't fit in a pox deck, but it also would be well suited for this deck if you can put in some different creature to sac like Nether Spirit. I know it seems crazy to add him with the dredge, but Tombstalker is great at cleaning out extra creatures.

Just a warning though, the addition of goyf ruined my pox deck because so many changes had to be made to accommodate him.

[Raindown]

Any update to this deck. I'm trying to put together a version like this.

I think cutting Pox altogether and just leaving Small Pox in there is the best idea.

My conflict now is my Mox Diamonds and P. Deed getting in the way of each other. Its not that big of a deal later in the game though.

[Aggro_zombies]

Any update to this deck. I'm trying to put together a version like this.

I think cutting Pox altogether and just leaving Small Pox in there is the best idea.

My conflict now is my Mox Diamonds and P. Deed getting in the way of each other. Its not that big of a deal later in the game though.
Pox is far and away the worst card in Pox. Cutting it is a very good idea.

Exploration is probably better than Mox Diamond. The mana acceleration it provides is more permanent and it allows for sick plays with Wasteland.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Since there was a necro...

With Life from the Loam in there, it strikes me that Bloodghast would be a better choice than Nether Spirit. I say this purely because Loam has a chance of overturning a Spirit, and if it does that, then that screws your recursion temporarily and makes it difficult to block, etc. If it turns up a Bloodghast or two, however, then you've got instant card advantage. Indeed, it would probably be most beneficial to run a full four, precisely so that this scenario can occur as often as possible.

[Ectoplasm]

My friend made top 4 in a 40+ man tournament with BG loam + pox a few weeks ago, I'll ask him about his list when (if) I see him (could take a while). He played pox, tombstalkers, factories and the 2/2 spirit thing that comes back if it's the only dude in the yard.

[leander?]

This is the list.

4 pox
4 smallpox
4 sinkhole
4 thoughtseize
2 raven's crime
4 perniscious deed
4 tombstalker
3 nether spirit
3 life from the loam

3 swamp
4 bayou
3 bloodstained mire
3 polluted delta
4 wasteland
4 mishra's factory
4 hymn to tourach
4 urborg tomb of yawgmoth

side
4 extirpate
4 leyline of the void
4 engineered plague
3 zuran orb

[Raindown]

This is the list.

4 pox
4 smallpox
4 sinkhole
4 thoughtseize
2 raven's crime
4 perniscious deed
4 tombstalker
3 nether spirit
3 life from the loam

3 swamp
4 bayou
3 bloodstained mire
3 polluted delta
4 wasteland
4 mishra's factory
4 hymn to tourach
4 urborg tomb of yawgmoth

side
4 extirpate
4 leyline of the void
4 engineered plague
3 zuran orb

Thank you for posting, interesting list. Anyone run this or would change anything? Obviously I'm going to throw in the Verdant Catacombs fetchlands in there and a forest or two. Also cut Pox but as for what I am uncertain.

[Aggro_zombies]

Thank you for posting, interesting list. Anyone run this or would change anything? Obviously I'm going to throw in the Verdant Catacombs fetchlands in there and a forest or two. Also cut Pox but as for what I am uncertain.
Nether Spirit is basically 100% worse than Bloodghast. It wasn't even good when it was the only creature in the deck because you never wanted to see more than one for fear of having to discard it to a Pox and then losing your guys' ability to recur themselves.

Sinkhole isn't that great. I mean, it's great if you play it on turn two, but thereafter it's always a shitty draw, especially given the total lack of card drawing in the deck and the fact that all Zoo/Goblins/aggro in general has to do to beat you is stick one guy after a Pox and beat you shitless. This deck's topdeck mode is godawful in large part because of the number of symmetrical destruction effects it runs and the number of cards that get much worse as the game goes on.

[Ectoplasm]

High five leander, thanks for posting :)

[electrolyze]

creatures:

2xtombstalker
3xbloodghast

artifacts:

4xmox diamond

sorceries:

4xinnocent blood
4xsmallpox
4xsinkhole
4xhymn to tourach
4xthoughtseize
1xlife from the loam
1xraven's crime

instants:

2xentomb

enchantments:

3xpernicious deed

landjes:

4xbarren moor
4xwasteland
3xmishra's factory
2xurborg, tomb of yawgmoth
2xswamp
4xbayou
2xpolluted delta
1xverdant catacombs
1xmarsh flats
1xbloodstained mire

This is the list I'm testing atm. I think bloodghast can do a better job than spirit since it can comes in multyples and doesnt get affected by a tombstalker hitting the grave.

Since entomb is unbanned, I thought he would e perfect for the deck. You only have to run one copy of loam and 3 bloodghast ( in theory there are 5 bloodghast in the deck now:laugh: , which is great). Also you can fetch mishra's and wasteland if you have loam and raven's crime afcourse.

The rest looks very normal I think. Just a few questions,

How good is sinkhole in this deck these days? Maybe cutting him and put in some more entomb so I can run a worm harvest too.

Should I put some cool lands in it like tabernacle, maze of ith, cabal pit and such?

[Jon Stewart]

I didn't realize that there was a Loam Pox thread. I don't think Eternal Witness is all that hot or worth splashing for. But Crop Rotation or Living Wish on the other hand...

If I were to go the Dark Depths route, I would probably splash green for Living Wish, and I would definately play Mox Diamond since you run so many almost useless lands...

4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
4 Sinkhole

4 Mox Diamond
3 Life from the Loam
2 Pox
2 Wretched Banquet/Crop Rotation/Reanimate/Tarmogoyf

4 Living Wish
3 Tombstalker
3 Vampire Hexmage
3 Dark Depths

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Bayou
3 Swamp

Just an idea, Im sure a few cards need to be changed around, but I see definate potential in it.

[Cthuloo]

With the following list I finished 3rd in a 49 people tournament some months ago (I previously posted it in the main pox thread, not realizing that this thread existed):

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
3 [A] Bayou
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (4)
2 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 [SOK] Tomb of Urami
2 [ON] Barren Moor
4 [U] Swamp (1)
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
4 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures
3 [FUT] Tombstalker
2 [MM] Nether Spirit

// Spells
1 [FNM] Smother
4 [TSP] Smallpox
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (3)
2 [TSP] Phyrexian Totem
4 [FNM] Duress
4 [SH] Mox Diamond
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [EVE] Raven's Crime
1 [EVE] Worm Harvest
1 [EVE] Syphon Life
3 [RAV] Life from the Loam
2 [AP] Pernicious Deed
2 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [FNM] Smother
SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 3 [7E] Engineered Plague


What I've changed to the list up to now:

Main
- 1 Worm Harvest -2 Totem - 4 Bloodstained Mire -4 Duress -1 Tomb of Urami + 4 Thoughtseize + 1 Smother + 1 Forest + 4 Verdant Catacombs + 2 Garruck
Side:
- 2 Smother - 3 Extirpate + 3 Innocent Blood + 2 Duress

Sharing my experience on some issues:

- Sinkhole is not that good in the deck. Bg pox goes more for board control, so better let them drop their threats and deed them away.
- Bloodghast is less amazing than one might think. It's a good help versus control (even more if you play therapies in the side instead of duress), but this is already a favourable matchup for the deck. It's almost useless against aggro, since it can't block, and combo, for it's slow clock. Nether spirit it's still better, event though it is far from being excellent.
- The deck needs a good finisher in addition to the Stalkers. I've tried a dozen different solutions, and now I'm sticking with Garruck, even though :g: :g: is hard to get sometimes
- You need the moxen. I know they have a poor synergy with deed, but they provide acceleration and mana fixing, something the deck desperately needs.
- About tabernacle, maze and other utility lands: you simply don't have the space to fit multiples of them in the deck, and as 1-of they're too random. What can be done is fitting some living wishes in the deck and try to abuse them. Looking at my previous list I would go: -1 Stalker -1 Raven's Crime -1 Smother (not sure about this) + 3 Living Wish in the main, and then -4 Leyline - 2 duress + 3 other grave hate + 1 Stalker + 1 Tabernacle + 1 Maze in the side.

[Raindown]

- You need the moxen. I know they have a poor synergy with deed, but they provide acceleration and mana fixing, something the deck desperately needs.


I agree that having acceleration is nice, but with Verdant Catacombs and running 4 Urborg, do you think Mox are still needed for mana fixing? I just starting testing and I don't even run Bayou.

[Cthuloo]

I agree that having acceleration is nice, but with Verdant Catacombs and running 4 Urborg, do you think Mox are still needed for mana fixing? I just starting testing and I don't even run Bayou.

Well, in my experience it is. Remember that running smallpox you will probably have to sacrifice and/or discard a good amount of your own land, and a well timed wasteland by your opponent can leave you without the precious green mana for your loam.
If you don't run bayou (I will assume you run basic forest(s) ) the green mana being wasted is maybe not an issue, but you should then have problems obtaining bot the :g: and the :b: :b: you need to make the deck running.
Last but not least, they're a great out against blood moon/back to basics, that are a pain for this deck.

Is your experience with the deck different? If you manage to do fine without the moxen, could you post your complete manabase?

[e=mc^2]

People are right when they say that Deathcloud needs more lands in play to be good. Ramping up to 6 lands + bad Pox. If you want to play Deathcloud I would also recommend dropping Pernicious Deed since a one turn Deed is the other slow spell in the deck. This also allows your Mox Diamonds to stay around longer. Also if you need more lands you can just play more than 24 and have some cycling lands. My last Deathcloud Loam Deck looked something like this:

4x Finks
2x Tombstalker
1x Terravore

4x Mox Diamond
4x Life from the Loam
4x Edict
3x Garruk
3x Damnation
3x Death Cloud
3x Thoughtseize
2x Raven's Crime
1x Worm Harvest

3x Bloodstained Mire
2x Wooded Foothills
3x Bayou
3x Tranquil Thicket
3x Barren Moor
1x Maze of Ith
1x Volrath's SH
2x Wasteland
4x Swamp
4x Forest

[Raindown]

Is your experience with the deck different? If you manage to do fine without the moxen, could you post your complete manabase?

Testing this at the moment, I do sometimes get hosed. I'm not sure if I miss the acceleration yet, as I often smile drawing a business spell rather than a Mox.

// Lands
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Swamp (1)
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
3 Forest (7)

Edit: even thought about dropping the Factories for more of a pure green black splash. Call me crazy

[hofzge]

I really liked Ali Aintrazi's new deck with an Entomb (http://deckbox.org/mtg/entomb) package, but removed the Darkblast (http://deckbox.org/mtg/darkblast) from the deck he recommended in his article Rise Of Aintrazi Poxing DC (http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/23504_Rise_Of_Aintrazi_Poxing_DC.html)

This is what I will play in our local groups next Legacy Tournament:

1 Nether Spirit
4 Entomb
1 Garruk Relentless
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Innocent Blood
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Life from the Loam
3 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Raven's Crime
4 Smallpox
2 Swamp
2 Barren Moor
4 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Pit
1 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
3 Mishra's Factory
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
SB: 3 Pernicious Deed
SB: 3 Extirpate
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Duress
SB: 1 Innocent Blood
SB: 2 Perish
SB: 1 Worm Harvest
SB: 1 Karakas

[zathe922]

I have been working on loampox for some time now and i have a list that have done pretty well during playtesting.

1 Nether Spirit
3 Entomb
3 Loam
3 Liliana
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Smallpox
4 Innocent Blood
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Worm Harvest
3 Bayou
3 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Wasteland
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth


Sensei's Divining Top is a card that is working amazing in this deck, it makes sure i never run out of disruption and it can also be used to protect loam from graveyard removal.

Anyone have some good advice against burn? i have never played against burn but i feel like its a bad matcup. I have a single Syphon Life in my sideboard against those decks, anyone have better ideas?

[catmint]

The article is very good!
I ma thinking about building BU Pox and a lot of questions were answered by him.

3 Maelstrom Pulse MD looks better since Plainswalkers are a real Problem.

[Psychotron]

Anyone have some good advice against burn? i have never played against burn but i feel like its a bad matcup. I have a single Syphon Life in my sideboard against those decks, anyone have better ideas?

Chalice of the void since its also useful against led combo, Nomad stadium is also a nice SB card if u run crop rotation.

I've been running this list based on greg russel's list for sometime and i really think its an upgrade to his, still missing the tabernacle(so expensive):


4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Crop Rotation
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Life from the Loam
4 Mox Diamond
3 Pox
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Smallpox
3 Vindicate
1 Worm Harvest

4 Barren Moor
3 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Pit
1 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Nantuko Monastery
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

SB:
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Darkblast
2 Krosan Grip
1 Nomad Stadium
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Solitary Confinement
3 Tormod's Crypt


I'm think of cutting the Poxes for StP as an additional way to deal with Iona and vialed in creatures and sometimes I miss pernicious deed MB which i used to run before switching to vindicate.

[Greenpoe]

You might want a Gigapede, Worm Harvest or that Pharoah (so you can Entomb for removal, sort of), although I really think you'd want Tops in this type of a deck. Actually, what about adding white for Vindicate+Sinkhole? Then you can really just wreck their lands (Waste, Sink, Vindicate, Smallpox, Hymn, Tabernacle snyergy).

[Cthuloo]

You might want a Gigapede, Worm Harvest or that Pharoah (so you can Entomb for removal, sort of), although I really think you'd want Tops in this type of a deck. Actually, what about adding white for Vindicate+Sinkhole? Then you can really just wreck their lands (Waste, Sink, Vindicate, Smallpox, Hymn, Tabernacle snyergy).

Adding white is a real stretch to the manabase, getting color-screwed becomes a concrete possibility if you don't get an early loam going.

I lately came to dislike worm harvest for it's anti-synergy with pernicious deed. In addition, the graveyard usually isn't that full of lands to make the spell gamebreaking. Gigapede is narrower, but more effective against blue decks in general.

Playing Bloodghast is also a possibility (true, they don't block, but they come absolutely for free while you're dredging and advancing your gameplan).

[ReinVos]

This decks slowly seems to turn into Trisomy 21. It's a deck designed by a German player. I'd recommend checking it out. He's had great results with it in 2009.

This is data from it's hey-day:

Top 8s:

- 5. out of 70 people: 09-13-2009, Iserlohn, Germany
- 5. out of 57 people: 10-11-2009, Dülmen, Germany
- 7. out of 46 people: 11-07-2009, Italy
- 2. out of 83 people: 11-14-2009, Iserlohn Legacy Cup, Germany
- 6. out of 38 people: 11-15-2009, Iserlohn, Germany
- 1. out of 45 people: 12-20-2009, Dülmen, Germany

Link to primer: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=208182

This guy has done a lot of work on the Loampox archetype, so I'd definitely suggest reading about his experiences playing the deck.

[Cthuloo]

I'm well aware of the existence of Trisomy 21! :tongue: The main difference between the decks is that Trisomy is more all in in the mana denial and abusing the Loam engine, while Loam Pox is more of a compromise strategy. I very often side out part of the Loam package in some matchups.

[zathe922]

well... at the moment i am currently trying to build something without smallpox since the pox effects seems bad in my meta, i have yet to face any deck where the card is good.

I am currently looking for an aditional wincondition to play in my sideboard since it seems like i need to bring in aditional threats against many decks. do you think gigapede would be a decent choice? looks good to me since i can entomb for it, and it cant be plowed and it can be replayed every turn.

[Cthuloo]

well... at the moment i am currently trying to build something without smallpox since the pox effects seems bad in my meta, i have yet to face any deck where the card is good.

The card shines, for example, against Maverick. Smallpoxing away a land + Noble can steal away a lot of tempo. It's also very good against decks like threshold that play few threats and have a hard time refilling their hand (and also have an unstable manabase).




I am currently looking for an aditional wincondition to play in my sideboard since it seems like i need to bring in aditional threats against many decks. do you think gigapede would be a decent choice? looks good to me since i can entomb for it, and it cant be plowed and it can be replayed every turn.

It depends on your meta. Gigapede is at its best against control decks. It's quite slow to set up, but then it's pretty much unstoppable, and deals adimrably with Jace. It's also quite good against aggro-control decks that play up to 12-15 creatures, since it shines in 1 to 1 combat. It's not very good against swarm aggro, too slow and easily circumvented.
My current sideboard includes 3xGoyf and 3xTombstalker: they provide a fast enough clock to give me a chance against combo, and can take an opponent by surprise if they boarded out their removal after g1.

[zathe922]

Hm... some gigapedes would probably be the best since i will probably face a lot of control. Its also nice that i can entomb for it.