Dusk Urchin

[f|i[p]]

I was not really supposed to ask this question, but I might as well have it cleared up as I couldn't find anything about it.

I have a dusk urchin in play with one -1/-1 counters on it. My old friend plays contagion on it giving it two -2/-1 counters(old mbc deck).I said I would draw 3 cards since I'm quite positive that when the counters resolve dusk urchins wouldn't be able to differentiate the -1/-1 from the -2/-1 counters contagion gave it. He claims that it would be able to since it states in the card that it only count the -1/-1 counters.

I was quite positive that it wouldn't be able to differentiate it but I just wanted it cleared up once and for all just in case we run into the same discussion again..

[KrzyMoose]

I believe you are incorrect.

The Game keeps track of counters by their names; ie, a -1/-1 counter, a -2/-1 counter, etc.

A -1/-1 counter is named/called a -1/-1 counter, and describes only a counter which gives -1/-1 to a creature (or whatever).

Thus, a -2/-1 counter describes a different object.

Thus, Dusk Urchin does actually differentiate between -1/-1 counters and -2/-1 counters. So, you would only draw a card for each -1/-1 counter on the Urchin, not for any -2/-1 counters.

[Pinder]

The only rule I could find on counters was this one:



200.10. A counter is a marker placed on an object or player, either modifying its characteristics or interacting with an ability. A counter is not a token, and a token is not a counter. Counters with the same name or description are interchangeable.


So since -2/-1 counters have a different name than -1/-1 counters, you can't use them for the ability because they aren't interchangeable.

[f|i[p]]

Assuming...

So if he does contagion a 4/3 dusk urchin making it a 0/1 with two -2/-1 counters(contagion)..

If I do attack with it, or block with it after a few turns I would only draw 1 card...

So it actually treats a -2/-1 and a -1/-1 as seperate sources...SO you dont actually have a dusk urchin with a -5/-3 counters when it dies...its a dusk urchin wiht two -2/-1 counters and one -1/-1 counter...is this right?

[KrzyMoose]

So if he does contagion a 4/3 dusk urchin making it a 0/1 with two -2/-1 counters(contagion)..

If I do attack with it, or block with it after a few turns I would only draw 1 card...

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "...after a few turns...". If your Urchins is Contagion'ed, then you will only get to declare one attack/block with it, before it dies.


So it actually treats a -2/-1 and a -1/-1 as seperate sources...SO you dont actually have a dusk urchin with a -5/-3 counters when it dies...its a dusk urchin wiht two -2/-1 counters and one -1/-1 counter...is this right?

Correct.

Furthermore, if a creature has five +1/+1 counters on it, it does not simply have one +5/+5 counter on it. It has five individual +1/+1 counters on it.

[f|i[p]]

OK... thanks a lot. I actually thought -2/-1's were just the same as -1/-1....

And the names and description of the counters are just poison, modular and whatever else kind of counters there are,and not the effect like -2/-1 and -1/-1. .

So just to clear it up, a voracious hatchling with a contagion -2/-1 counter on it, can't ever remove those counters. No matter how many black or white spells the owner of the hatchling plays? its just simply treated seperately...

[KrzyMoose]

And the names and description of the counters are just poison, modular and whatever else kind of counters there are,and not the effect like -2/-1 and -1/-1.

A -2/-1 counter is named "-2/-1 counter".


So just to clear it up, a voracious hatchling with a contagion -2/-1 counter on it, can't ever remove those counters. No matter how many black or white spells you play the owner of the hatchling plays? its just simply treated seperately?

Correct. Hatchling will only remove counters called "-1/-1 counter".