Captain Hammer
01-06-2009, 01:07 AM
I'm sorry for creating another thread pertaining to Black but I honestly don't think this particular topic has really been discussed before.
I'm looking to replace three utility slots in some of my black aggro decks with a card advantage engine.
So for the sake of this discussion, I would like you to assume that any theoretically Black Aggro deck being discussed is already playing 4 Thoughtseize, 4 Snuff Out and 4 Tombstalker. I honestly can't think of any reason why these twelve cards wouldn't be automatic four ofs in any aggressive black deck.
I wanted to share my opinions on the different options and get your take on each of them.
And I wanted you to share any black card advantage sources that I may have missed.
a.) Hymn to Tourach
- No discussion of card advantage in black would be complete without mentioning this card. Not only is it pure card advantage. But it can easily screw over your opponents game plan and first several turns, and given it's speed, it provides one of blacks strongest tools against the combo matchup. In short, if you can support BB casting cost, there is really no reason not to play it, it's that good.
b.) Skeletal Scrying
- This is a very strong card that would rank high on the list usually. But as I mentioned earlier, I wanted to go into this with the assumption that any aggressive black aggro build is already playing 4 Tombstalker. Given this stipulation, I don't think the dyssnergy between the two is justifiable when there are so many alternatives.
c.) Night's Whispers
- A mini undercosted Skeletal Scrying without the aforementioned drawback. The only real concern regarding this card is that drawing just two cards doesn't seem like an awful lot. Spending two mana for +1 card advantage doesn't seem super efficient for an aggressive deck. But then again, it's all that Predict and a 3 casting cost Mulldrifter offer, and both those see play. It's not even that far off from what Standstill offers, so I think it would rank pretty high.
d.) Hypnotic Specter
- I think that the faster and faster that legacy becomes, and the more and more efficent that creatures become, the less powerful this card seems. Off of a turn one ritual, Hippie is absolutely fierce. But without a ritual handy, it won't hit the opponent till turn 4, and in legacy, plenty of decks won't have anything worthwhile left in their hand by then. Where as cards like Phyrexian Arena offer lategame staying power, this primarily offers early game disruption, which would be fine, were it not for the high casting cost.
e.) Pernicious Deed
- Not exactly monoblack. But given that pretty much every black aggro variant is splashing green already to play Goyfs, I thought that this too is worth a mention. Then again, it creates dissnyergy with the low casting cost Goyf that were the reason for splashing green in the first place. And Deed is probably a bit too mana intensive for any black aggro deck.
f.) Dark Confidant
- Again, no discussion of card advantage in black would be complete without mentioning Confidant. But then again, given the earlier stipulation, that the theoretical black aggro deck being discussed is playing 4 Snuff Out and 4 Tombstalker, the potential life loss from Confidant approaches dangerous levels. Throw in the 4 Thoughtseize and some fetchlands, and the life loss becomes unacceptable in my humble opinion.
b.) Phyrexian Arena
- This is a card that is almost never considered in Black Aggro. But I think that's a mistake. Yes, it's not quite as cheap as Confidant, but the lifeloss it provides is far more tolerable in a build with Tombstalker and Snuff Out, giving the card significant midgame and lategame staying power. It gives Rituals drawn after the first few turns, something to cast with all that mana. And being an enchantment, the card is also much harder to get rid of than Dark Confidant, and pumps Goyf if it is.
My Final Rankings in the Current Environment For An Aggressive Black Deck playing Tombstalker and Snuff Out...
1.) Hymn to Tourach
2/3.) Night's Whisper (can't decide if this is better than P. Arena)
3/2.) Phyrexian Arena (can't decide if this is better than Night's Whisper)
4.) Hypnotic Specter - Ranked low for the reasons mentioned above.
5.) Dark Confidant - Ranked low simply due to unacceptable lifeloss in a build with 4 Tombstalker and 4 Snuff Out.
6.) Pernicious Deed - Ranked low because of the need for a high mana investment in an aggressive deck, combined with the dysnergy with Goyf.
7.) Skeletal Scrying - Ranked low because of having to salvage from the same yard that Tombstalker and Goyf already salvage from and being mana intensive pigeon holing it to be a purely lategame card.
How would you rank these seven cards in a theoretical build with 4 Snuff Out and 4 Tombstalkers? Are there any other good black card advantage engines that I missed?
I'm looking to replace three utility slots in some of my black aggro decks with a card advantage engine.
So for the sake of this discussion, I would like you to assume that any theoretically Black Aggro deck being discussed is already playing 4 Thoughtseize, 4 Snuff Out and 4 Tombstalker. I honestly can't think of any reason why these twelve cards wouldn't be automatic four ofs in any aggressive black deck.
I wanted to share my opinions on the different options and get your take on each of them.
And I wanted you to share any black card advantage sources that I may have missed.
a.) Hymn to Tourach
- No discussion of card advantage in black would be complete without mentioning this card. Not only is it pure card advantage. But it can easily screw over your opponents game plan and first several turns, and given it's speed, it provides one of blacks strongest tools against the combo matchup. In short, if you can support BB casting cost, there is really no reason not to play it, it's that good.
b.) Skeletal Scrying
- This is a very strong card that would rank high on the list usually. But as I mentioned earlier, I wanted to go into this with the assumption that any aggressive black aggro build is already playing 4 Tombstalker. Given this stipulation, I don't think the dyssnergy between the two is justifiable when there are so many alternatives.
c.) Night's Whispers
- A mini undercosted Skeletal Scrying without the aforementioned drawback. The only real concern regarding this card is that drawing just two cards doesn't seem like an awful lot. Spending two mana for +1 card advantage doesn't seem super efficient for an aggressive deck. But then again, it's all that Predict and a 3 casting cost Mulldrifter offer, and both those see play. It's not even that far off from what Standstill offers, so I think it would rank pretty high.
d.) Hypnotic Specter
- I think that the faster and faster that legacy becomes, and the more and more efficent that creatures become, the less powerful this card seems. Off of a turn one ritual, Hippie is absolutely fierce. But without a ritual handy, it won't hit the opponent till turn 4, and in legacy, plenty of decks won't have anything worthwhile left in their hand by then. Where as cards like Phyrexian Arena offer lategame staying power, this primarily offers early game disruption, which would be fine, were it not for the high casting cost.
e.) Pernicious Deed
- Not exactly monoblack. But given that pretty much every black aggro variant is splashing green already to play Goyfs, I thought that this too is worth a mention. Then again, it creates dissnyergy with the low casting cost Goyf that were the reason for splashing green in the first place. And Deed is probably a bit too mana intensive for any black aggro deck.
f.) Dark Confidant
- Again, no discussion of card advantage in black would be complete without mentioning Confidant. But then again, given the earlier stipulation, that the theoretical black aggro deck being discussed is playing 4 Snuff Out and 4 Tombstalker, the potential life loss from Confidant approaches dangerous levels. Throw in the 4 Thoughtseize and some fetchlands, and the life loss becomes unacceptable in my humble opinion.
b.) Phyrexian Arena
- This is a card that is almost never considered in Black Aggro. But I think that's a mistake. Yes, it's not quite as cheap as Confidant, but the lifeloss it provides is far more tolerable in a build with Tombstalker and Snuff Out, giving the card significant midgame and lategame staying power. It gives Rituals drawn after the first few turns, something to cast with all that mana. And being an enchantment, the card is also much harder to get rid of than Dark Confidant, and pumps Goyf if it is.
My Final Rankings in the Current Environment For An Aggressive Black Deck playing Tombstalker and Snuff Out...
1.) Hymn to Tourach
2/3.) Night's Whisper (can't decide if this is better than P. Arena)
3/2.) Phyrexian Arena (can't decide if this is better than Night's Whisper)
4.) Hypnotic Specter - Ranked low for the reasons mentioned above.
5.) Dark Confidant - Ranked low simply due to unacceptable lifeloss in a build with 4 Tombstalker and 4 Snuff Out.
6.) Pernicious Deed - Ranked low because of the need for a high mana investment in an aggressive deck, combined with the dysnergy with Goyf.
7.) Skeletal Scrying - Ranked low because of having to salvage from the same yard that Tombstalker and Goyf already salvage from and being mana intensive pigeon holing it to be a purely lategame card.
How would you rank these seven cards in a theoretical build with 4 Snuff Out and 4 Tombstalkers? Are there any other good black card advantage engines that I missed?