[Developmental Deck] It's Still Steel

[Captain Hammer]

Just getting tired of the same handful of creatures getting played in legacy, I wanted to try something different. I wanted to play with Darksteel Collassus using the Proteus Staff combo.

There's basically three directions that this deck could go in...

A.) First, modeling a Proteus Staff deck after Armaggedon Stax, you get...

4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Crucible of Worlds
3 Trinisphere
2 Smokestack

4 Ancestral Visions
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Propaganda
2 In the Eyes of Choas\Rushing River

4 Proteus Staff
2 Darksteel Collasus

6 Island
4 Fairie Conclave
3 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
1 Academy Ruins

Edit/Update: The above list is my current recommended list.

Compare this to the typical Armaggedon Stax list...

6 Plains
3 Flagstones of Trokair
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory

3 Exalted Angel
4 Magus of the Tabernacle

4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Mox Diamond
3 Smokestack

4 Armageddon
4 Ghostly Prison
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Ravages of War

You basically cut Magus of the Tabernacle and Exalted Angel (two of geddon stax's answers to opponent's creatures) for Darksteel Collasus and Proteus Staff (two of this deck's answer to opponent's creatures).

You replaced Oblivion Ring with either In the Eyes of Choas or Rushing River. Rushing River combos with Smokestack allowing you to bounce it back or sac it at the end of your opponent's turn, it combos with Crucible to let you sac a land that you'll just get back to return two of their permanents. Plus, it combos with Smokestack, bouncing away two worthless permanents so that they're forced to sacrifice their key permanents to Smokestack. And it does other cool stuff against opposing Dreadnoughts, Tombstalkers, Pithing Needles, threats that they resolved before you cast out your Chalices, and other things that I'll get into later.

And you replaced Armaggedon and Ravages of War with Thirst for Knowledge and Ancestral Visions, trading massive one card advantage engine for another.

Another interesting option for this deck is to cut out the worst components of Armaggedon Stax like Smokestack, and run additional massive card advantage engines like Rhystic Study and Standstill (though this doesn't synergize with your Chalices at 2). Or if you want some tutoring, Intuition works well, especially well if you pair it with Accumilated Knowledge
.
And lastly, if you really wish that Magus of the Tabernacle was blue, you could play Pendrell Mists, which is functionally identical to Magus of the Tabernacle. Or you could play Tabernacle of Pendrell Vale if you can afford it that is. If you're looking for something similar to Armaggedon in blue Parallax Tide is one option.

Or another option is play Chronatog Totem and/or Paradox Haze along with Smokestack, Pendrell Mists, Tangle Wire and Parrallax Tide to make your opponent feel like sticking a screw driver through his/her forehead.

Chronatog Totem looks particularly promising because it combos both with your lock pieces such as Smokestack among others, and simultanously combos with Proteus Staff allowing you to cut out chaff like Fairie Conclave.

Of course, with all these cool strategies that blue has, cutting out the Proteus combo entirely, and instead abusing Trinket Mage is yet another possibility.

B.) Another route to go is to try modeling this deck after Mono Blue Control, which is widely accepted as a more than capable deck in this format.

This is what a fairly standard MUC list looks like..

4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
4 Fact or Fiction
4 Ancestral Vision

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Propaganda
4 Powder Keg

3 Back to Basics
2 Vedalken Shackles

2 Morphling
1 Rainbow Efreet

24 Island

The goal would to make this deck have a similar control element, but with a far faster more comboesque (more fun) win condition.

One way to do this is just to take the exact same list above and go...

-8 Island
+4 Mishra's Factory
+4 Mutavault

-3 Back to Basics
-2 Morphling
-1 Rainbow Efreet

+4 Proteus Staff
+2 Darksteel Collossus

and MAYBE...

-4 Counterspell
+4 Mana Leak

-4 Fact or Fiction
+4 Thirst for Knowledge

-2 Veldalken Shackles
+2 Rushing River

Since Rushing River isn't as broken here as it is in the Stax version, alternatives to Rushing River include Misdirection, Lightning Greaves, and all the other cards mentioned above.

Other than Swords (which you have Chalice for), there is nothing that can take out Collassus that wouldn't take out Morphling.

The main loss is Back to Basics. And it IS a big loss. To make up for this though, the deck would be playing a manabase with two mana lands since all of the deck's business spells are 2U casting cost. A manabase borrowed from Fairie Stompy. Two mana lands allow for turn one Chalices and Kegs and turn two Propagandas. That's a really strong selling point.

Swords to Plowshares is the only, only think that can kill DSC. And CotV at 1 nullifies that card, and also singlehandedly beats thresh and a bunch of other decks, including the other combo decks that are faster than this. So Chalice of the Void along with a manabase that can cast it turn one is pretty broken.

Alternatively, Winter Orb has a very similar effect on the game that Back to Basics does. And Trinisphere greatly impedes the same decks that Back to Basics impedes, as well as impeding combo and burn and lots of other stuff. And hell, Back to Basics isn't unplayable in the deck. It just hurts you a little bit is all. So keeping Back to Basics, or replacing it with either Trinisphere or Winter Orb, are all reasonable options.

Of the business spells in MUC, the only business spells this deck couldn't support are...

4 Counterspell
3 Back to Basics
2 Veldalken Shackles

The decks manabase can play out all of the other business spells in MUC much earlier and faster.

For all intents and purpose, if you really really want to run a Counterspell effect and you dislike Mana Leak for some reason, either Thoughtbind or Convulate work decently too.

C.) The third possible direction for this deck is to build something somewhere in between the above two strategies, maybe even mix in a dash of Dreadstill...

It basically borrows Fairie Stompy's disrupt then beatdown strategy, Dreadstill's abuse of Standstill with a big threat and manlands, the lock pieces in Permanent Based Mono Blue Control, and have it play out similar to Propaganda Stax above, but with a combo finish...

4 Force of Will
4 Standstill
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Propaganda
2 Rushing River
2 Polymorph

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Powder Keg
4 Chimeric Idol
4 Proteus Staff
2 Darksteel Colossus

4 Chrome Mox
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Ancient Tomb
8 Island
2 Fairie Conclave

But clearly, this is not the best example of what direction that the deck could go in.

Other strong cards that work with the above shell...
4 Lightning Greaves - Lightning Greaves is always played the turn before Staff. Will give your DSC haste and protection from StP and bounce, basically winning you the game.
4 Ancestral Visions - Dodges Chalice at 1, refills your hand at the exact perfect time. If you're not in love with the card in slower blue based decks, you need to give it a fair shot.
4 Fact or Fiction - It's a blue deck isn't it.
4 Winter Orb - Fits with the prison theme well.
4 Trinsphere - Ditto.
4 Sphere of Resistance - If going the prison route.
4 Daze - Free countermagic is nothing to scoff at.
4 Mana Leak or 1U Counterspell for noncreature spells - More counters.
4 Misdirection - More StP and countermagic protection.
4 Energy Field - Usually buys a few extra turns against aggro.
4 Veldalken Shackles - Decent against elves and goblins.
2 Polymorph - Alternate Combo piece, very solid choice. The strongest contendor to fill extra meta slots.

[Media314r8]

I would drop the polymorphs, and
2 DSC-> 2 sundering titans/ 1 titan + 1 plats.
2 rushing river -> 2 something relevant preboard, possibly misdirection or divert.

[Captain Hammer]

Titan's a cool idea. I would at the very most maybe do a 1-1 split between DSC and Titan though.

Titan while disruptive is not a threat. It can be chump blocked forever.

DSC is nice in that, not only does it always win the game for you in two turns where Titan doesn't trample, or do enough damage to win you for atleast three turns even without chump blockers.

And also DSC doesn't care about Krosan Grips, Seal of Cleansings, and most of the creature removal out there. The only cards it cares about are remove from the game effects. Even if it's bounced, you can discard it with TfK and it goes right back into your lib to be refetched with Staff.

If you place Lightning Greaves on it, the card is completely invinsible.

[Elfrago]

Probably Show and Tell is better than Polymorph.

[Gheizen64]

Polymorph is a tutor though.

[Captain Hammer]

At your suggestion, I cut the Polymorphs and put them up as meta slots.

[Skeggi]

Swords to Plowshares is the only thing that is played that can kill Darksteel Colossus. But there are guys who prefer to steal it. Perhaps add some bounce?


4 That artifact that makes all spells cost one more mana.

Sphere of Resistance (http://magiccards.info/ex/en/139.html) but I don't think it's a good option...

[Captain Hammer]

Thanks for Sphere. Edited it in.

You do have FoW. I like Lightning Greaves and MisD beyond that.

[Mordenkaynen]

It would be funny to see dreadnaught sitting in block and waiting StP for attack. :laugh:

Joking aside do you think that with such a low threat-density Standstill deserves space in the deck?

[ansset]

Diabolic Edict?

[Phoenix Ignition]

As much as I like an indestructable 11/11 with trample, don't you think the prevalence of a 1 cc 12/12 with trample is going to invalidate this idea some? I realize staff of proteus can help solve that, but still, turn 2 gets 1-3 swings in before the staff goes online.

[Captain Hammer]

Dreadnought requires a 2 card 2-3 mana combo. And the deck devotes `14 slots to the Dreadnought combo. Proteus Staff is a one card combo and it only has to use up 5-6 slots (the final version of this deck will) total. But the mainpoint is, Dreadnought, because it requires 2-3 mana, and the decks that playit don't run Chrome Mox, will never see play before turn 2 at the very earliest. And usually it takes longer jsut to find both pieces of the combo.

This means that a single Chalice at 1 will shut off most of the deck's cards, Brainstorms, Dreadnoughts, Stifles and such.

Also, you have Rushing River to bounce back Dreadnought and keep it there till they find another copy of the combo piece.

And lastly, you can Proteus Staff away your opponent's Dreadnought and leave them stuck either with a much worse creature, or another Dreadnought that they have to immediately sacrifice.

I think too many people are comparing this to Dreadstill and Fairie Stompy. This is basically meant to be a more controllish prison deck (with elements with a quick win condition.

Where as Dreadstill devotes 17 slots (Dreadnought, Goyf, Mage, Stifle, Trickbind) to it's win condition, and Fairie Stompy devotes 28 slots (Efreet, Drake, Mage, Mite, Mulldrifter, Sower, SoFI, SoLS) to it's threats, this deck would ideally spend a grand total of six slots for it's win condition, and the rest of the deck would be prison elements, control elements or card draw. Ideally, this deck would be able to win just with the manlands if neccesary.

Is it there yet? No, it does have some great lock pieces and tons of great card draw, but it needs a few more control elements, so that's what I need input on.

What're some other strong prison, control cards that I neglected? I'm not sure how essential the Kegs are. Both the Kegs, the Idols, and the meta slots could go. So that's 12 open slots to add more prison/control elements to the deck.

I think Rushing River may deserves two slots. It's extremely versatile, bouncing back Dreadnoughts, Tombstalkers (after they just dredged out most of their yard to play it), Needles, Vials when they have several counters on them, Smokestacks at opponent's EOT, Goyfs and other threats at opponent's EOT so that you can lay Standstill on your turn and such. I think it was a mistake to cut Rushing River for that reason.

In addition, Tezzeret the Seeker seems kind of sexy, tutoring up Staffs, Kegs, CotV at 0, Smokestacks and such. If I decide to play it, that still leaves 8 open slots dying for some strong control/prison elements.

I think I might just borrow some tech from http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10966&page=8 to make this deck's prison elements much more robust.



Would I be better served playing Mox Diamond, Wasteland, City's as well.

[Moczoc]

You can always target your opponent creatures too with Proteus Staff, so he gets the weakest of his deck all the time. This tech is overlooked by many people.
You can also do things that Naughtdecks can't like prevent yourself from losing the game by putting Platinum Angel into play. If you acutally play Lightning Greaves its gg against some decks.

A color worth splashing would be black, it offers Bitterblossom(!), Thoughtseize and The Abyss.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

I think the most fun (and possibly most focused) version of this deck would just run 4 Proteus Staff and a 1-1 split on Darksteel Colossus and Sundering Titan... Along with a bunch of manlands and Standstill. That way, one activation of Proteus Staff not only gives you a win condition, it lets you stack pretty much your whole deck however you want it, which is a pretty nice side incentive.

You could even go down to one Colossus, but it seems too risky.

Anyhow, the rest of the deck as I'd play it would basically be a strong control shell with Chalice, FoW, Daze, Shackles, Powder Keg, maybe Tezzeret, since you seem to be using so many artifacts... He'd give you an alternate win condition, he'd tutor whatever you needed, and if you used artifact lands he'd give you mana... Hell, with Basalt Monolith, he'd even give you enough mana to hardcast Colossus, but this seems pretty unnecessary.

I think Proteus Staff could be a pretty awesome card, it just needs some tweaking with.

[Isamaru]

So you can Proteus Staff your first Dark Colossus to get the second / a Titan/Angel/etc. right? It does say "destroy" right?

[Moczoc]

Polymorph does say "destroy" but Proteus staff says "put on bottom of library"

[Captain Hammer]

Yes, polymorph is really interesting. I would love to squeeze some in.

Which of the above three builds do you think is the most productive line to pursue?

I'm loving the whole Armaggedon Stax take on the deck. The Mono Blue Control version wasn't as synergic as I was hoping it would be. And I still having trouble figuring out the perfect combination of the build that's an intermediate between the two.

Perhaps the more important question is...

Should I try to make room for Chronatog, additional Smokestacks, and additional lock pieces like... Pendrell Mists, Tabernacle of Pendrell Vale, Parallax Tide, Paradox Haze and Tangle Wire into the Blue Stax version of the deck?

If so, how should I go about doing that?

[georgjorge]

I was really surprised to see that deck up, as I've been working on a version the last weeks...I can't say anything about the MUC or Dreadstill-esque version, but I think the Stax version is the best one anywawy.

Some general comments on your Stax list:

1. Four Conclave is too much, and having to pay two to activate really makes Proteus/Polymorph harder to play. I'd run a 2/2 split with Mutavault. I personally don't run any Conclave, 11 blue sources is enough for me since I don't run many blue cards.

2. I found that drawing cards is nice, but Stax really needs to play lock pieces on their first turns. I'd cut the draw to three or four, and make it Compulsive Researches (you usually need land less than your artifacts). Visions is a nice first-turn play, but still too slow so you'll draw your cards just a turn or two after you would have needed them.

3. I run Repeals in the Rushing River slot, because it's very common to bounce 2cc permanents on my turn two, but I don't know what's better.

4. In Stax, I think Titan is MUCH better than Collossus. It basically acts as a one-sided Armageddon with legs. The deck doesn't care that much if it is removed, or chumped, because it already did what it was meant to - if Stax can destroy the opponents manabase, it has very good chances of winning.



Having said all that, I advanced my build to a UB version which I like better than mono-U. It uses Bitterblossom - very versatile, it's a threat against control, defense against aggro, and fodder for Polymorph and Smokestack. It also plays The Abyss instead of Propaganda. That's a metagame slot, but I think nowadays there are a lot more big creatures than swarms, and they cause problems for Stax. It can't kill Dreadnought (Repeal is good here though), but Goyf, 'Stalker, Angel, the creatures in Faerie and Dragon Stompy, Crusher, 'Vore etc...all of which would not care so much about a Propaganda. Abyss also allows your Titans and Factories to go on the offensive - the opponent has to deal with Factory + Mutavault + Abyss, while he can just ignore Propaganda + Mutavault + Abyss if he has blockers. Oh, and it helps Smokestacks a lot. Four Propagandas are in the board, of course. The list:









UB SunderStax


Mana:

4 Mox Diamond
4 Tomb
4 Factory
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
3 City of Traitors
2 Mutavault
1 Flooded Strand

Lock components:

4 Chalice
4 Trinisphere
4 Smokestack
3 Crucible

Defense:

4 Bitterblossom
3 The Abyss
2 Repeal

Armageddon effects:

4 Polymorph
2 Sundering Titan


What do you think about it ?

[Captain Hammer]

The list looks fantastic and very creative. There's a lot of strong effects wrapped into it.

I personally think you're running too much mana though. Half of your whole deck is mana sources. You should be able to get away with 28 mana sources total, 29 max.

I'm going to stick with mono blue stax for my deck, in part because I don't feel it worthwhile to invest in all those fetchlands, dual lands, and abyss's just to play a tier two deck.

And also, I can't justify running Sundering Titan for a few reasons... I'll be playing this deck in a nontournament setting.

So half the decks I face of against won't be playing duals, they'll be mono color decks like Fairie Stompy, Elves and such. So Sundering Titan will at best take out one of your lands and one of there lands. Not exactly an Armaggedon effect, a lot more like a 4cc Smallpox really.

Sure, you remember the games where Titan nuked four of their lands and completely screwed them over. But what about the games where Titan just blew up one land and they just shrugged it off.

Against the other half decks, the Cruicble + Wasteland combo is plenty potent at wrecking nonbasics.

Also, Sundering Titan is a somewhat lousy threat. The reason I went with the Stax route is that I wanted to option to either try to lock down my opponent completely, or should that fail, suddenly switch gears and lay down a two turn near unstoppable clock.

I actually think the monoblue version is stronger or atleast just as strong if built right. The card draw is actually extremely useful.

I see that you're playing 4x copies of cards like Trinisphere that are useless in multples.

By instead playing 4 Ancestral Visions (which I find gets you the cards at the exact perfect time, 4 TfK (synergic with DSCs too) or Compulsive Research (which I agree is also quite broken thanks to Crucible), and optionally Standstill (so this deck can be played just like any landstill deck, bouncing their threat, wasting their Factories, and laying down a Standstill, with a Crucible already down for even more fun...

The number of lock pieces you draw is just down right ridiculous. Not only do I not need to run full playsets of Trinis and Smokestacks, I even ended up going back down to 3 Crucibles because you draw so many of them. You never have to worry about not finding enough Chalices to throw down at both 1 and 2, enough bounce to take out all their critters, a Trini every game, and whatever else you need, you're drawing so many cards that the disruption never lets up an inch for your opponent.

You should give it a whirl and then see if you still feel that the card draw isn't worthwhile.