Blood Moon, Back to Basics, Flagstones of Trokair

[Skeggi]

Hi. I understand that nonbasic lands like Flagstones of Trokair are still nonbasic under a Blood Moon and therefor do not untap if Back to Basics is in play.

Are the lands still Legendary? If I play a second Flagstones of Trokair on the table, does the Legendary rule send them to the graveyard?

Also, under a Blood Moon, when Flagstones of Trokair hits the graveyard, do I get to search my library for a Plains? Since it triggers when Flagstones of Trokair hits the graveyard, it's not a Mountain anymore, is it?

[Van Phanel]

Flagstones with Blood Moon in play look like this:

Flagstones of Trokair
Legendary Land - Mountain
<tap>: Add :r: to your manapool.

When another Flagstones comes into play, the game sees that there are to legendary lands with the same name and they are put into your graveyard. As leaves-play triggers trigger based on the situation that existed in play, you don't get to search for a Plans because neither of your Flasgstones had the search-ability when it was in play.

[RoddyVR]

flagstones doesnt say "leaves play" it sais
When Flagstones of Trokair is put into a graveyard from play, you may search your library for a Plains card and put it into play tapped. If you do, shuffle your library.

Just want to make sure that its the same thing?

[Van Phanel]

I used "leaves-play triggers" as a catch-all phrase for all abilities that trigger on a card leaving play somehow, be it put into a graveyard, bounced to a player's hand, or whatever. Sorry if I was unclear.

Now "When ~this~ leaves play, ..." and "When ~this~ is put into a graveyard form play, ..." are totally different things, but they both trigger (or don't trigger in our question) based on the state in play.

[cdr]

Van Phanel has it.


410.10c. Leaves-play abilities trigger when a permanent leaves the in-play zone. These are written as, but aren't limited to, "When [this object] leaves play, . . ." or "Whenever [something] is put into a graveyard from play, . . . ." An ability that attempts to do something to the card that left play checks for it only in the first zone that it went to.

410.10d. Normally, objects that exist immediately after an event are checked to see if the event matched any trigger conditions. Continuous effects that exist at that time are used to determine what the trigger conditions are and what the objects involved in the event look like. However, some triggered abilities must be treated specially because the object with the ability may no longer be in play, may have moved to a hand or library, or may no longer be controlled by the appropriate player. The game has to "look back in time" to determine if these abilities trigger. Abilities that trigger specifically when an object leaves play, when an object is put into a hand or library from a public zone, or when a player loses control of an object will trigger based on their existence, and the appearance of objects, prior to the event rather than afterward.


Note that leaves-play and public zone -> nonpublic zone triggers are unique. All other zone change triggers trigger from the destination zone.

This is why Yixlid Jailer will stop "when you discard this" (like Cycling, Wilt-Leaf Liege), "when this is put into your graveyard from your library" (Narcomeba), "When this is put into a graveyard from anywhere", etc from triggering.

[Raindown]

Without the Blood Moon in play with two Flagstones being played result in two tapped plains being put into play?

[cdr]

If two or more Flagstones are ever in play at the same time, due to their legendaryness, they will all be put into their owners graveyards as a state based effect, which is before any player recieves priority.

Then, because they went to the graveyard, each will trigger.


420.5. The state-based effects are as follows:

420.5e. If two or more legendary permanents with the same name are in play, all are put into their owners' graveyards. This is called the "legend rule." If only one of those permanents is legendary, this rule doesn't apply.

[puppektion]

This is not correct, see below. -cdr

I know this part isn't as relevant, but my friend took a varient of Dragon Stompy to a vintage tourney and we found this out against ichorid:

With Blood Moon in play, Dryad Arbor is:

Dryad Arbor
Land Creature - Mountain Dryad
T: Add R to your mana pool
Dryad Arbor is green.

Dryad arbor is still a green creature but taps for red mana.
:D

[cdr]

I know this part isn't as relevant, but my friend took a varient of Dragon Stompy to a vintage tourney and we found this out against ichorid:

With Blood Moon in play, Dryad Arbor is:

Dryad Arbor
Land Creature - Mountain Dryad
T: Add R to your mana pool
Dryad Arbor is green.

Dryad arbor is still a green creature but taps for red mana.
:D

That's not correct, unfortunately. It should be obvious that it's not correct once you know (a) the layers and (b) the rule about changing a land to a basic land type.


212.6h. If an effect changes a land's subtype to one or more of the basic land types, the land no longer has its old land type. It loses all abilities generated from its rules text and its old land types, and it gains the appropriate mana ability for each new basic land type. Note that this doesn't remove any abilities that were granted to the land by other effects. Changing a land's subtype doesn't add or remove any card types (such as creature) or supertypes (such as basic, legendary, and snow) the land may have. If a land gains one or more land types in addition to its own, it keeps its land types and rules text, and it gains the new land types and mana abilities.

This is part of the type-changing effect, so it applies in layer 4 as part of the effect.

"~This~ is green" is an 'other' effect, layer 5. The ability is removed in layer 4, before it can apply. (Note that as a CDA, the ability will apply before non-CDA abilities, and thus will get around typical ability-removing effects like Humility).

End result:

Dryad Arbor
Land -- Mountain Creature -- Dryad
T: Add {R} to your mana pool.
1/1

[puppektion]

If that's the case, I was extensively lied to by a judge. I'm so ashamed for listening!!!

[cdr]

Judges make mistakes sometimes; if it's someone you see regularly, politely point it out so that he can learn from it.