[Deck] Affinity

[Infinitium]

Can't see Affinity edging out Elves as the Glimpse deck of choice. Elves have resilience, and far better synergy with it as they can actually generate surplus mana and card advantage as they go. I'm definetly trying out Lord Monkey in my current affinity build however, probably in place of Arcbound Worker. 12 very efficient lords might be just what Affinity needs to regain its niche (it'll always be hated out on demand however so don't bank on it sailing up as the premier aggro deck of the format).

// Lands
4 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [DS] Blinkmoth Nexus
4 [MR] Great Furnace

// Creatures
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
4 [MR] Ornithopter
4 [ALA] Master of Etherium
4 [M11] Steel Overseer
4 [SOM] Memnite
4 [MBE] Signal Pest

// Spells
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
3 [SOM] Mox Opal
2 [MR] Shrapnel Blast
3 [LRW] Springleaf Drum
4 [SOM] Galvanic Blast

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 4 [M10] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 [FD] Engineered Explosives

[AggroSteve]

i have tested glimpse of nature extensively, i also played an erayo-affinity list a few years ago, so i know exactly what use glimpse has in the deck

as a few lists are playing following non-cost- / affinity-creatures

3-4x memnite
3-4x ornithophter
4x frogmite
2-4x myr enforcer

allways depending on your list glimpse will have a stronger or weaker impact on the match, but practically glimpse is mostly just used as a adictional thoughtcast, that occasionally makes you draw 5 cards instead of 2 and fill the battlefield with a lot of free creatures, that all help master of etherium or cranial plating, or ravager to grow, or whatever

glimpse is most effective 1st turn with 2 free creatures or around the 3rd turn (at least in my testings) and will allmost allways give you at least 2 cards, and that is not half bad considering its manacost, but its a bit situational, since sometimes you will only get 1 card out of it, but some other times you will get even 5 cards
^^ btw, double glimpse is awesome, it makes your deck allmost run like a combo deck drawing up to 6 to 10 cards and putting them in the field, and burn opponent out of life with ravager/disciple

did anyone ever try the new pseudo-skullclamp? its called infiltration lens i think

[1maarten1]

Is there anyone that plays Quest for the holy relic in Affinity? Seems like it could work pretty cool to me, it also gives you some kind of permanent removal in the form of Argentium armor.

I think a list that runs glint hawks could definately use something like that.

[AggroSteve]

could be an option, but i think it is subpar
why not just play stoneforge mystic if you are allready playing white and want to search for equipment

argentum armor is allmost not castable because of its manacost and will have allmost no use for the deck

[1maarten1]

could be an option, but i think it is subpar
why not just play stoneforge mystic if you are allready playing white and want to search for equipment

argentum armor is allmost not castable because of its manacost and will have allmost no use for the deck

Quest also lets you attach that equipment when it hits play ;)!

[AggroSteve]

may be true but you need to play 5 creatures to get the equipment, by the time you have played 5 creatures, there should be 1 or 2 of them that can finish the game alone if unanswered, so the equip-piece will not be needed anymore

example:
- by the time you have played 5 creatures your master of etherium (if you play him) will be at least 7/7 or bigger, if unanswered he wins the game, no need for equip there
- by the time ...... 5 creatures, ravager will be 5/5 or bigger and win you the game (probably)

- if you play stoneforge mystic you will get the most effective equipment for an affinity deck or maybe other equipments of a toolbox on your 2nd turn, but will not be able to use it right away but plating is simply the most effective equipment for affinity, there is no arguing on this

[Pltnmngl]

I'm digging Glimpse of Nature more and more. I'm still messing with the Kansas list. I'm just trying to figure out what that 1 Sword and 1 Foundry should be. Maybe 2 Signal Pest? MOE? 2 more Champion maybe?

[AggroSteve]

i will be sticking with master of etherium instead of champion for now, and i still have to test sword and foundry way more, but i think they are more usefull than signal pest, simply due to the fact that foundry generates evasive creatures, and sword is recursive ravager-fodder, or fodder for foundry

[1maarten1]

i will be sticking with master of etherium instead of champion for now, and i still have to test sword and foundry way more, but i think they are more usefull than signal pest, simply due to the fact that foundry generates evasive creatures, and sword is recursive ravager-fodder, or fodder for foundry

Signal pest IS evasive! Thats what makes it so insane. (It cant be blocked by creatures without flying or reach) So it pumps your guys, carrys plating like a champ, and it can also give +2 to ravager (declare attack and then sac it). So I think its a no-brainer on that it will replace Arcbound worker.

[Pltnmngl]

Affinity got a decent amount of press this weekend. Patrick Chapin played affinity at San Jose. It looks a lot like the list from Kansas. (Would it be okay if I posted the list?) Also, Nick Spagnolo and Michael Pozsgay both said Affinity is one of the best aggro decks in the format. Prior to the weekend, Alexander Shearer said "hope for affinity." It's weird that this deck is being expected so much, yet still accepted as a main contender.

I have not tested Signal Pest yet, so I will reserve my doubts. It does justify running the full suite of Thopter, Memnite, Frogmite, and a few Enforcers supported by Glimpse. It supports a swarm strategy more.

[SpikeyMikey]

Screw Signal Pest. If it got it's own bonus, maybe. But how many things that beat for 0 on their own do you want? Maybe in Playce of Ornithopter as an evasive, but free is better than 1. What has me excited is Phyrexian Revoker and the new Tezz. Revoker solves a lot of problems and provides a serious disruption tool. Shut down SDT against CB? Shut down LED against storm? Sign me up! I loathe Affinity, but I may have to play it in Indy anyway, it just looks too strong...

[Justin]

A few new spoiled cards:

Phyrexian Revoker 2
Artifact Creature - Horror
As Phyrexian Revoker enters the battlefield, name a nonland card.
Activated abilities of sources with the chosen name can't be activated.
Basic senses like sight and taste are reserved for those in power.
Illus. Kev Walker #122/155 2/1

Its ability is similar to Pithing Needle, except that it can't hit abilities on lands, but can hit mana abilities of non-lands. This seems like a card that can help improve some of the deck's bad matchups. The weaknesses are that it is slow (yeah 2 mana is slow for Affinity) and doesn't really fit with the swarm strategy discussed above. However, it might be a good sideboard option, as it might be worth paying an extra mana for a "needle" that can pick up Plating and beat down.

Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas 2UB
Planeswalker - Tezzeret
+1: Look at the top five cards of your library. You may reveal an artifact card from among them and put it into your hand. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.
-1: Target artifact becomes a 5/5 artifact creature.
-4: Target player loses X life and you gain X life, where X is twice the number of artifacts you control.
Illus. Aleksi Briclot #97/155 3

Yeah, I know it's really expensive. However, four mana planeswalkers have been good in Legacy. It comes in with three loyalty counters and then you fetch an artifact with the first ability for +1. You could grab a "free" artifact creature that can help you defend your Walker. Then, if it gets to your next turn, you just win with the ultimate ability. The second ability might even be viable as well. The effect does not wear off until the end of the turn. You might use it late in the game when an extra 5/5 guy could help you finish your alpha strike.

Ultimately, the new Tezzeret, cool as it is, may not make the cut in "balls to the wall" versions of Affinity that play Glimpse of Nature and the like if it is too slow. However, I think it can be an excellent finisher for slower versions of Affinity that can ramp up to four mana. Certainly, the printing of Mox Opal makes the new Tezzeret a much more viable option because of the color fixing and acceleration.

[1maarten1]

Revoker seems even more great then Signal pest. The argument that its slow isnt really relevent in a list that can produce 2 mana on turn 1 very frequently using Opal.

I agree that Signal pest might not be as good as I thought since it doesnt buff itself, but I still think it deserves a slot. Maybe in the place of some workers/thopters.

Tezzeret is not playeble in the Kansas list, maybe in a slower affinity.

[Justin]

The more I think about Revoker, the more I think it's worthy of consideration for the main deck. My question is where does it fit in? What do you cut in favor of it? Ravager costs the same mana, but I would hesitate to cut it. You probably don't want to cut a card that can provide a huge threat such as Master of Etherium. You also don't want to cut a cheap or "free" artifact creature for Revoker because it will slow your deck down and force you to add more land. So what do you cut for it if you want it in your main deck?

[Nidd]

Tezzeret looks great in the version I've been thinking about - Thopter Foundry, maybe even Confidant or Goyf.

[1maarten1]

The more I think about Revoker, the more I think it's worthy of consideration for the main deck. My question is where does it fit in? What do you cut in favor of it? Ravager costs the same mana, but I would hesitate to cut it. You probably don't want to cut a card that can provide a huge threat such as Master of Etherium. You also don't want to cut a cheap or "free" artifact creature for Revoker because it will slow your deck down and force you to add more land. So what do you cut for it if you want it in your main deck?

Maybe Etched champion? I cut MoE in favor of Champion but maybe it would be nice to run this in its place, doesnt have the same ''carrys plating like a champ'' but if I like signal pest instead of arcbound worker that problem is kinda fixed.

I think thats what ill do:
-3 etched champion
+3 revoker (4th in sb)
-4 arcbound worker
+4 signal pest

[SpikeyMikey]

The more I think about Revoker, the more I think it's worthy of consideration for the main deck. My question is where does it fit in? What do you cut in favor of it? Ravager costs the same mana, but I would hesitate to cut it. You probably don't want to cut a card that can provide a huge threat such as Master of Etherium. You also don't want to cut a cheap or "free" artifact creature for Revoker because it will slow your deck down and force you to add more land. So what do you cut for it if you want it in your main deck?

Easy. You cut Ravager and DotV. You add 4 Revokers and 2 Tezz and 2 Etched Champions. Plating and MoE, your two biggest threats work at odds with it. Tezz works with them. If you're running Drum and Opal, you could play him turn 2 and activate on turn 3 if you wanted. He gives you filter too. You run Cannonist main to supplement the disruption of Revoker.

DotV is only good with Ravager anyway and Ravager is really only good as a finisher under M10 rules. Tezz is just better and Revoker is so good you can't not run him. No Vial for Fish and Goblins. You just explode past them. You lock down CB decks by shutting off their Tops or locking down their Cantrips and burn through them too. And how is storm going to do against MD Cannonist when they can't IT for anything because their LED is locked with Revoker?

[Mystical_Jackass]

Pithing Needle on a stick. Sounds good, shut down their EE or Deed. Wish it stopped Maze of Ith.

Tezzeret 2.0's ultimate is nuts in Affinity ^^

[Justin]

Easy. You cut Ravager and DotV. You add 4 Revokers and 2 Tezz and 2 Etched Champions. Plating and MoE, your two biggest threats work at odds with it. Tezz works with them. If you're running Drum and Opal, you could play him turn 2 and activate on turn 3 if you wanted. He gives you filter too. You run Cannonist main to supplement the disruption of Revoker.

DotV is only good with Ravager anyway and Ravager is really only good as a finisher under M10 rules. Tezz is just better and Revoker is so good you can't not run him. No Vial for Fish and Goblins. You just explode past them. You lock down CB decks by shutting off their Tops or locking down their Cantrips and burn through them too. And how is storm going to do against MD Cannonist when they can't IT for anything because their LED is locked with Revoker?

As someone who has played Affinity since 2004, the idea of cutting Ravager and Disciple seems like blasphamy. But you make some great points. I thiking cutting them is the way to go and use those eight slots for Tezz and cards that support him.

[TheSleeper]

Can Tezz work with Ravager/Disciple though? The deck would have a couple of game plans that way:

#1
-Get Champion/Ornithopter+Plating to apply early beats (if not outright win)
-Finish with either Tezz Ulti or Ravager/Disciple

#2:
-If no Plating gets online, clog the board a little
-Ulti with Tezz for half their life
-Finish with Ravager/Disciple

The only way these two don't work is if you choose to sac everything to Ravager *before* Tezz arrives. But unless that was lethal, you wouldn't have done that anyways.

Ultimately they both may not fit in the same build; I can see the case for Revoker. I just wanted to point out that they could work as alternate win conditions as well. You won't always draw one or the other. Having said that, Tezz only requires one card (and a +1 turn) to activate, while Arcbound/Disciple is obviously a two card combo. Excited to see what happens in this space though.

[Hanni]

When Ad Nauseam was first spoiled, people tried to fit it into their existing Storm Combo decks. At that time, I created a thread called ANT, to design a Storm Combo deck around the card (Ad Nauseam) because it was so damn powerful. That idea (ANT) happened to turn out very well.

Since people seem divided on whether or not Tezzeret fits into their Affinity deck, I made a Tezzeret Affinity (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19749-Tezzeret-Affinity) thread for discussions involving building an Affinity deck around Tezzeret. I think Tezzeret is this decks Ad Nauseam.

[Koby]

Tezzeret is a better Affinity planeswalker than Jace is.

Affinity is not a control deck that wants to grind out card advantage.
Affinity is a deck that wants to play it's entire hand in one turn.

Grim Monolith perhaps maybe the missing key?
When combined with 2 mana lands, and Mox Opal, you have a 5c accelerator.

However, since this is a Vial Affinity thread, new discussion is suitable.

[SpikeyMikey]

As someone who has played Affinity since 2004, the idea of cutting Ravager and Disciple seems like blasphamy. But you make some great points. I thiking cutting them is the way to go and use those eight slots for Tezz and cards that support him.

Yeah, Ravager used to be the heart of that deck. But then, Broodstar was the heart before that. And at one point, the deck even ran Vial. The thread's called Vial Affinity and everyone has replaced Vial with Drum. Frogmite and Myr Enforcer were once key players. When you think about it, the only Affinity card the deck even runs anymore is Thoughtcast and it's almost obsolete because of Glimpse. But personally, I'm hoping it doesn't catch on until after Indy. I don't want to play against it there. I think my initial thoughts were a little off; you can't run too many 2-3 drops or you're too slow. Maybe Signal Pest has a place after all. I still think that Revoker main is a good idea.

Affinity is an explosive deck. But so is Merfolk. So is Goblins. Elves just breaks the mold when it comes to exploding. They're all as fast as Affinity but Fish and Goblins both have disruption to back their explosiveness, and that's why they always perform better against the meta than Affinity. But with decent early disruption creatures like Revoker, Affinity has a chance to be on par with Goblins or Fish. I see two directions you can go with the new cards. You can do what Hanni is doing and go the all in fast combo route. Which I think would work. Or you can go back to Vial, slow yourself down some, but pack Wastelands and maybe Ports in and try and go Fish/Gobbo style. You back your fast beats up with disruption. You have standalone threats that Fish doesnt' have but your disruption package is a bit weaker. I dunno, just randomly musing now.

[Dzra]

I think the best way to use Tezzeret is to not rely on him. Tezz is good... but he's not Ad Nauseam good.

The biggest weaknesses in Affinity are that sometimes it can't finish the job and that it can't recover well from a board wipe. Tezzeret helps with both these issues and the deck's late game in general. That said, here's a list I'll throw out there. I'm still going back and forth because I'd like to have some Myr Enforcers in there, but right now it's fairly tight.

4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Darksteel Citadel

4 Mox Opal
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Thoughtcast
4 Cranial Plating
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Frogmite
4 Master of Etherium
2 Etched Champion

SB
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Thoughtseize
2 Etched Champion
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Tormod's Crypt

[Scampi]

Hi guys,
with the arrival of Mirrodin Besieged, here is my take on the build:

3x Ornithopter
4x Memnite
4x Arcbound Worker
4x Arcbound Ravager
3x Frogmite
4x Disciple of the Vault
3x Etched Champion

4x Aether Vial
3x Mox Opal
2x Sprinleaf Drum
4x Thoughtcast
4x Cranial Plating

2x Inkmoth Nexus (looks ok to equip a Plating on this one or sac some Ravager counters)
4x Seat of the Synod
4x Ancient Den (Ethersworn Canonist in SB)
4x Vault of Whispers
4x Tree of Tales (Krosan Grip in SB?)

I don't know if 18 lands is too much, I have yet to check it...

[Infinitium]

Further diverting the discussion; is it time to reexamine 8-ball (or it's spiritual successor) what with the current mirrodin block? The playable 2cc disruption creatures are closing critical mass with Revoker, and with Opal the deck can easily run no cmc 1 whatsoever for Chalice. Example decklist:

// Lands
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
4 [MR] Ancient Den

// Creatures
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
4 [MR] Ornithopter
4 [ALA] Master of Etherium
4 [M11] Steel Overseer
4 [SOM] Memnite
4 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
4 [MBE] Phyrexian Revoker

// Spells
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
4 [SOM] Mox Opal
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void

Sideboard:
4x Engineered Explosives
4x Tormod's Crypt

8 of the best lords in the format, 12 ways to slow down combo on turn 1, Ravager to permanently skewer combat math in your favor and Cranial Plating to boot. Seems strong at a glance. If you're willing to cut Citadel for Vault you could probably work in Tezzeret as well for the hell of it.

[luckme10]

Further diverting the discussion; is it time to reexamine 8-ball (or it's spiritual successor) what with the current mirrodin block? The playable 2cc disruption creatures are closing critical mass with Revoker, and with Opal the deck can easily run no cmc 1 whatsoever for Chalice. Example decklist:

// Lands
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
4 [MR] Ancient Den

// Creatures
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
4 [MR] Ornithopter
4 [ALA] Master of Etherium
4 [M11] Steel Overseer
4 [SOM] Memnite
4 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
4 [MBE] Phyrexian Revoker

// Spells
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
4 [SOM] Mox Opal
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void

Sideboard:
4x Engineered Explosives
4x Tormod's Crypt

8 of the best lords in the format, 12 ways to slow down combo on turn 1, Ravager to permanently skewer combat math in your favor and Cranial Plating to boot. Seems strong at a glance. If you're willing to cut Citadel for Vault you could probably work in Tezzeret as well for the hell of it.


Oh there's a thread for that:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?10584-[Deck]-8-Ball-%288-Sphere-Affinity%29&p=493776&highlight=#post493776
I've been posting on it once a year... :laugh:
Maybe I'll start a new ritual... like that Edgar Allan Poe Toaster.

[Nonkel]

Further diverting the discussion; is it time to reexamine 8-ball (or it's spiritual successor) what with the current mirrodin block? The playable 2cc disruption creatures are closing critical mass with Revoker, and with Opal the deck can easily run no cmc 1 whatsoever for Chalice. Example decklist:

// Lands
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
4 [MR] Ancient Den

// Creatures
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
4 [MR] Ornithopter
4 [ALA] Master of Etherium
4 [M11] Steel Overseer
4 [SOM] Memnite
4 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
4 [MBE] Phyrexian Revoker

// Spells
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
4 [SOM] Mox Opal
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void

Sideboard:
4x Engineered Explosives
4x Tormod's Crypt

8 of the best lords in the format, 12 ways to slow down combo on turn 1, Ravager to permanently skewer combat math in your favor and Cranial Plating to boot. Seems strong at a glance. If you're willing to cut Citadel for Vault you could probably work in Tezzeret as well for the hell of it.

I really like your list. You shut down a Lackey, Aether Vial, Spell pierce, Dark ritual, Thoughtseize/Duress, StP and all other nasty cmc 1 stuff. Imagine the look on your opponents face if you go turn 1 Chalice @ 1, turn 2 Canonist or Revoker...
But maybe Canonist is more of a meta choice, if you expect many combo-decks. You could replace those by Etched Champion.
Only thing it needs is some mana fixing, since you can't run Springleaf drum and you are running Darksteel Citadel. Replace those by Glimmervoid?

Speaking of Glimmervoid, can someone enlighten me why people run City of Brass over Glimmervoid? Seems like it would never be destroyed in affinity by having no other artifacts in play, if so you're losing anyway. Too bad I can't run my Mishra's Workshops though...

[Dzra]

Disciple and Springleaf Drum just win games. I'd rather just side those out for Chalice and other combo hate when I need it rather than run hate MD.

[4eak]

http://www.channelfireball.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Phyrexian-Revoker.jpg

It is lovely.

I am pleased with this card just from the looks of it, but I haven't tested it yet. I'd prefer it was 1 for 1/1, but 2 for 2/1 is still fine. I generally don't find disruptive cards to be main-deckable, but this one might be an exception. It is acceptably costed (colorless matters), it has legs (which is extremely important to an aggro-deck), and it answers many bombs.

The trade-off between land cards and non-land cards with mana-abilities (which this card does answer!) is worth-while, in my view.

It won't make the deck viable again, but it might improve it.



peace,
4eak

[kkoie]

I would have to politely disagree. If I were to maindeck Phyrexian Revoker, I would much rather maindeck Pithing Needle instead.

The reason being that needle is not a creature. Sure that can be seen as a con, but I consider it a pro because Legacy is choke full of anti-creature hate. The only format I am aware of that doesn't pack MD creature hate on a regular basis is vintage. Now in that case, I would throw in a revoker. Because it does the same thing as needle and puts down a clock, and vintage is creature light (tho it seems to be getting more creature oriented decks getting more and more popular).

[Nonkel]

I would have to politely disagree. If I were to maindeck Phyrexian Revoker, I would much rather maindeck Pithing Needle instead.

The reason being that needle is not a creature. Sure that can be seen as a con, but I consider it a pro because Legacy is choke full of anti-creature hate. The only format I am aware of that doesn't pack MD creature hate on a regular basis is vintage. Now in that case, I would throw in a revoker. Because it does the same thing as needle and puts down a clock, and vintage is creature light (tho it seems to be getting more creature oriented decks getting more and more popular).

Ehh?? It dies to creature removal? So?
You are playing an aggro deck full of creatures, Ravager, MoE etc, which all die to removal. Should we skip those also?
I really don't understand why its so hard to grasp that this card is a great addition. It offers control AND aggro in one card. People that say this card is mediocre must get their head examined. If this eats a StP, at least my MoE is safe! It carries plating and if you are playing Steel Overseer this is an extra target for it.

[Modus Pwnens]

http://www.channelfireball.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Phyrexian-Revoker.jpg

It is lovely.

I am pleased with this card just from the looks of it, but I haven't tested it yet. I'd prefer it was 1 for 1/1, but 2 for 2/1 is still fine. I generally don't find disruptive cards to be main-deckable, but this one might be an exception. It is acceptably costed (colorless matters), it has legs (which is extremely important to an aggro-deck), and it answers many bombs.

The trade-off between land cards and non-land cards with mana-abilities (which this card does answer!) is worth-while, in my view.

It won't make the deck viable again, but it might improve it.



peace,
4eak

Hey, 4eak.
Well, i would like to hear your thoughts about these changes to affinity, if i were to use Revoker, in what slot would it be best to put him?
i mean, i've been having good results in local torneys (i can at least get top8s in 30-40ppl torneys) with the fast version of affinity, if i slow the deck down with maindecked Chalice, revoker, etc... will it improve my records? won't i get Rolfstomped by other agro decks or combos?

What about the new tezz?
i've been testing him in MWS and i found it pretty cool to win by turn 3, but i don't know if he mess up the consistency of the deck (i've been running with 17 lands on my test build) =p

should we return to the old Vial version of Affinity since we are slowering it down?
also, I don't really like Glimpse, but do you think it is viable in the current meta?

BTW, it would be very nice if you could update your Primer... i mean, its veryy well-written, and gives a lot of depth about affinity, but i think its a little outdated... maybe we could use some new info.

PS: Im sorry for my poor english, it is not my Native language.

[Justin]

Instead of debating between Pithing Needle and revoker, I'm just going to run a set of both. That way I can tell my opponent, "Screw you! You won't be activating any abilities all game."

[o.pala]

Instead of debating between Pithing Needle and revoker, I'm just going to run a set of both. That way I can tell my opponent, "Screw you! You won't be activating any abilities all game."

you can run the both with a playset of Vedalken Certarch

[o.pala]

Vedalken Certarch is it better than Phyrexian Revoker ?

[Puzzle]

Further diverting the discussion; is it time to reexamine 8-ball (or it's spiritual successor) what with the current mirrodin block? The playable 2cc disruption creatures are closing critical mass with Revoker, and with Opal the deck can easily run no cmc 1 whatsoever for Chalice. Example decklist:

// Lands
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
4 [MR] Ancient Den

// Creatures
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
4 [MR] Ornithopter
4 [ALA] Master of Etherium
4 [M11] Steel Overseer
4 [SOM] Memnite
4 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
4 [MBE] Phyrexian Revoker

// Spells
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
4 [SOM] Mox Opal
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void

Sideboard:
4x Engineered Explosives
4x Tormod's Crypt

8 of the best lords in the format, 12 ways to slow down combo on turn 1, Ravager to permanently skewer combat math in your favor and Cranial Plating to boot. Seems strong at a glance. If you're willing to cut Citadel for Vault you could probably work in Tezzeret as well for the hell of it.I like the Chalice idea. Not convinced by the Canonist (meta choice, I guess) but I like CotV.

Don't you think that without Disciple, Ravager is definitely working too much against the rest of the deck ?
I've given up on the dirty pair 3-4 months ago (opting for Certarch instead ; CotV could be better, though) and never looked back.
Whatever some say, they are definitely replaceable : what you lose in power by dropping them is actually not much when you account for the Plating+Metalcraft+consistency improvement.
Ravager is already not as good as it used to be when you could stack combat damage.

Even about punch, green can offer as good : Tarmogoyf is easily as good as Ravager, once you take the risk-side into account, and you can also play some Carapace Forger on top if you want. Red is another option with Galvanic and Shrapnel blasts.
Both these options disrupt the rest of the deck much less than Ravager.


Last, though I like the CotV, I think your list is too controllish, which means it's slow to kill, leaving too much time for the opponent to recover.
I'd reconsider the Canonist (give up white for something with more punch) and Overseer to try to speed up the kill.

[The Big Ragu]

I'm interested to see how well Tezzy tests out. 4 is definitely a bit expensive, but I think he'll do well. I don't think decks should redesign themselves to become dependent on the card, however. 1 - 2 seems like a suitable number to run.


What the hell is wrong with you people. You are derailing Affinity so much. Confidant>Thoughtcast? What the hell? And Memnite over Worker? You really wouldn't want to pay 1 mana for modular? I've tested Memnite and it sucks. And taking out Vial? Why even play Affinity if it isn't to beat CB-Top?

That new lord looks awesome. Makes our CB-Top match-up even better as he gives a clock. He should replace the 4 Workers.

Here's to hoping that Beseiged has more to offer.

Memnite >>> Worker

That one extra mana makes a big difference in a deck as fast as this. Arcbound Worker hasn't been very useful in this deck for a long time now.

Vial is pretty outdated for Affinity at this point. The benefits it gives you over control decks should be irrelevant, as control decks generally don't pose too much of a problem.

[Hencules]

This is a list i have been trying out now.

It got rid of most colored spells, since I got tired of having the wrong colors. I replaced them with cards that make the deck more versatile.

//Utility
4 Cranial Plating
4 Pithing Needle
3 Engineered Explosives
4 Mox Opal

//Dudes
4 Memnite
4 Frogmite
3 Myr Enforcer
3 Master of Etherium
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Steel Overseer
4 Ornithopter
3 Etched Champion

//Lands
4 Glimmervoid
4 Great Furnace
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod

The explosives are great removal, and they can be played for zero if you need to have an explosive start. That makes them quiet versatile. Pithing needle main seems a bit much, but i like it a lot. The provide answers to many troubles.

The main idea is to take away the colored troubles the deck occasionaly has. The problem is, it will run out of steam quicker than traditional affinity does. Perhaps cutting some cards for Sensei's divining top make's sense. It gives a lot of card advantage, but stays colorless.

Please share opinions about this list.

[luckme10]

Why are you using glimmervoid if you only have 2 spells that utilize colors; 3 cards that absolutely require them. I'd cut great furnace for darksteel citadel, which if you're running no red sources, should be doing anyways. Also, if you're running steel overseer, this card greatly benefits from turn 1 casts. Consider running more acceleration like ancient tomb in addition to springleaf drum.

I think the decklist you've posted is a great premise for more of a swarm style build. If you're concerned about running out of steam, a pair of new tezzes may a good finisher. Also, look into the new signal pest coming out.

[Pltnmngl]

New Tezz belongs in a different thread. With the way Ravager Affinity is now, you can't simply just add this guy. You would probably have to update AfFOWnity or create a U/B Affinity Stax deck. Dragon Fairy Stompy, lol? He just feels like a midrange type of card. When even MOE is so close to getting the boot because of his mana cost, this guy shouldn't even be mentioned.

Revoker is amazing. I'm thinking he replaces Canonist in some sideboards, but that's not tested yet. He sort of opens up another world for affinity since we now have 2 hatebears we could play on turn 1. Either way, he definitely can address the issues that this deck has against certain decks.

The primer should be updated when someone manages to do well with a build that is generally accepted. For instance, Glimpse of Nature, Memnite and Etched Champion are officially legitimate cards to run, so they should me mentioned in the primer. It would be a lot of work for 4eak if he had to keep mentioning every "good idea" that pops up in this thread. Tournament standings should back up the viability of certain cards. We all know certain cards are really good, but they have to prove themselves.

[The Big Ragu]

How can anyone say that Tezzeret 2.0 doesn't belong in this thread? 90% of the people who run this deck are going to want to get their hands on him. Unless something has gone horribly wrong, he either wins you the game on the turn you cast him or the next. Yes, he's expensive, but that's overcompensated by just how incredibly good he is. From what I saw in the thread about him, most people seem to think 3 - 4 of him belong in every deck, but I remain steadfast that 1 - 2 is the correct number to play. You'd never want to see him clogging up your hand.

However, I will agree that this thread does need to be rebooted, as it's changed so much as of recent. Seeing as how the affinity mechanic is no longer center stage, I propose a new name for the archetype:

'Agents of Steel'

I think it's the perfect name for the deck.

[Karhumies]

I would like to remind you all about the existence of a diversified Ux Metalcraft Aggro-control thread, which I created a while back (late December 2010, see page 24 of this thread for details):


I have created an Affinity-like aggro-control deck for the early 2011 Legacy meta, and would like to receive help from seasoned Affinity players to develop it further. For the lack of a better name, I call it UWx Metalcraft aggro-control (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19573-UWx-Metalcraft-Control).

...
// Main deck (60)
...
4 Ancient Tomb
...
4 Chalice of the Void @ 1


The initial :w: splash for MD Ethersworn Canonist and Stoneforge Mystic has been scrapped and replaced with MD Tezzeret 2.0 and Phyrexian Revoker.

That deck has a very different game plan compared to more traditional Affinity builds, which IMO makes it appropriate to discuss about it in a different thread and leave this thread for the more "balls to the walls" artifact creature strategies (which really should adopt the use of Signal Pest, IMO).

[Karhumies]

Brief list of some different varieties of "affinity-type" Legacy decks, which are at least borderline popular/playable even nowadays:

Common nominating cards:
4x Cranial Plating
4x Master of Etherium (given that the deck includes :u:)
12+ Artifact mana sources (combination of artifact lands with Paradise Mantle/Springleaf Drum/Mox Opal/other cards)
(3-4x Thoughtcast)


1) :r:-splash Red Affinity
Basically: Any Affinity build which splashes :r: for burn-type effects (typically has been UBr)
Signature cards: Atog, Fling, Shrapnel Blast, previously Fatal Frenzy, nowadays Galvanic Blast
Birth / initial rise in popularity: 2004 (1.5 renamed into Legacy, format ban list separated from Vintage, Mirrodin block presently in Standard)
Early signs of decline: Shards of Alara (Ethersworn Canonist and popularity of ANT and other combo decks makes :w: the 3rd/4th color of Affinity, dropping :r: from most lists)
Possible re-rise to surface #1: Scars of Mirrodin (Galvanic Blast), although this has not contributed as much for the game plan as the players had initially hoped

2) :g:-splash Berserk Affinity -> also modern-day versions of "budget green affinity"
Signature cards: Berserk, later Tarmogoyf, later budget replacement Carapace Forger
Birth / initial rise in popularity #1: 2004 (1.5 renamed into Legacy, format ban list separated from Vintage, Mirrodin block presently in Standard)
Decrease in popularity: when people realized that Berserk Stompy does practically the same thing, but faster
rise in popularity #2: Future Sight (Tarmogoyf)
rise in popularity #3: Carapace Forger as a budget creature to supplement Affinity-type aggro game plan ("budget zoo")

3) "Traditional"/"Modern"/"Typical" Vial Affinity (typically Uxy, with a possible z)
Signature cards: 4x Frogmite, 3-4x Myr Enforcer, 3-4x AEther Vial (Vial & the deck were a meta choice at the time)
Birth / initial rise in popularity: Shards of Alara (Master of Etherium), popularity of Counterbalance decks at the time
Early signs of decline: Conflux (Path to Exile), M10 (combat rules change: no damage on the stack), emerging popularity of ANT and other kinds of combo-based decks (fought with Chalice of the Void @ 0 and Ethersworn Canonist, but this was a losing battle)
Possible re-rise to surface #1: banning of Mystical Tutor, deck did not become successful (Survival did)
Possible re-rise to surface #2: Scars of Mirrodin (MD Mox Opal, MD Memnite, MD/SB Etched Champion), deck became moderately successful but is looking for additional gas (Signal Pest?) or another direction to branch off into (one of the listed-below affinity-type of decks?)
Possible re-rise to surface #3: Mirrodin Besieged (MD Signal Pest, MD/SB Phyrexian Revoker)

4) Affinity Stompy (one former build known as 8-ball Affinity)
Signature cards: Ancient Tomb, Wasteland, (Trinisphere), previously: 4x Sphere of Resistance + 4x Thorn of Amethyst, could nowadays include Magus of the Moon & Lodestone Golem?
Birth / initial rise in popularity: Lorwyn (Thorn of Amethyst)

5) :0: Mono-brown Affinity
Signature cards: 4x Steel Overseer, 4x Arcbound Worker, Grim Monolith
Birth / initial rise in popularity: M11 (Steel Overseer), unbanning of Grim Monolith; the deck has not caught on

6) :g::u: Glimpse-Erayo Affinity
Signature cards: 4x Glimpse of Nature, 4x Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
Birth / initial rise in popularity: Scars of Mirrodin (Memnite)

7) Affinity Stax
Signature cards: Vedalken Certarch, Tangle Wire, Wasteland
Birth / initial rise in popularity: work in progress since Scars of Mrrodin (Vedalken Certarch); arguably earlier (unsuccessful) deck building attempts have also been made; no complete deck list which would have fared well in tournaments so far

8) :u:x Metalcraft Aggro-control
Signature cards: 4x Ancient Tomb, 4x Chalice of the Void, complete lack of cc=1 cards in MD
Birth / initial rise in popularity: banning of Survival of the Fittest, meta choice because so many decks are very reliant on their cc=1 and cc=2 cards
Arguably this deck has been developed multiple times in the history of Legacy, whenever Chalice @ 1 has been a good meta choice for the then-present Affinity build.

9) Tezzeret Affinity (UB, with possible x)
Signature cards: Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, 4x Arcbound Ravager + 4x Disciple of the Void (although the latter is debated atm)
Birth / initial rise in popularity: Mirrodin Besieged (Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas)

[Lusian]

this is my take on brown affinity

4 signal pest
4 steel overseer
4 metalworker
4 wurmcoil engine
4 etched champion
4 phyrexian revoker
4 steel hellkite

4 crenial plating
4 mox opal
4 grim monolith
4 voltaic key

4 city of traitors
4 ancient tomb
4 contested warzone
4 darksteel citadel

[Hencules]

Sorry, but at that point the list doesn't belong in affinity anymore. There isn't a single affinity card in it.

It should be at a MUD thread.


Nonetheless, i think it is a tight list. Tested a lot with it? How do you like contested war zone?

[Lusian]

i only just proxy'ed it up and tested it for a day or two so basicly no testing
i cant really decide on the contested warzone over port or maybe an arena
as to the affinity part, in general affinity cards are going out of the deck becourse more surpirior cards appear just like vial is gone as of this moment the only good affinity card is thoughtcast and maybe frogmite. so i figured this was the thread where the playstyle of the deck belonged "drop a handfull of artifacts turn 1 or 2, attack, grap a coke"

[kortero]

Hello,

I wanted to post the list that I've been playing around with for the last few days. Most of it has been endless goldfishing, but I was also able to play few games against pretty competitive builds of 5c Zoo, RGB Goblins and UW Tempo.

4 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Darkslick Shore

4 Mox Opal
3 Springleaf Drum
4 Cranial Plating
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Thoughtcast

4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Arcbound Ravager
3 Steel Overseer
4 Master of Etherium

The deck has performed really well and I won most of the real games. While goldfishing, it feels very powerful, and more importantly, consistent. The deck can easily just swarm the opponent, win with Cranial Plating that equips any of the 8 'evasion guys' (Ornithopter/Signal Pest), win out of nowhere with Ravager + Disciple, or just wait for the ultimate Tezz experience.

Enjoy and try the list. Comment and critique are welcome as always!

EDIT: More comments on the specific card choices can be found in the Tezzeret Affinity thread http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19749-Tezzeret-Affinity/page2, #26.

[Lusian]

@kortero
i like the list but have you tried pithing needle? in a 15 land mana base with a 4cc planeswalker wasteland can really ruin your day

[kortero]

@kortero
i like the list but have you tried pithing needle? in a 15 land mana base with a 4cc planeswalker wasteland can really ruin your day

The good thing is that the list doesn't really rely on Tezzeret, and I actually won easily for example one game against UW Tempo where the opponent started with turn 1 Wasteland and turn 2 Wasteland. :)

The decks curve is really low apart from 3 Tezzerets and 4 Master of Etheriums, and the deck still has 22 mana sources of which 15 are lands. And I can't point strong enough the importance of Ancient Tombs, at least in my goldfishing and limited playtesting.

[The Big Ragu]

Hello,

I wanted to post the list that I've been playing around with for the last few days. Most of it has been endless goldfishing, but I was also able to play few games against pretty competitive builds of 5c Zoo, RGB Goblins and UW Tempo.

4 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Darkslick Shore

4 Mox Opal
3 Springleaf Drum
4 Cranial Plating
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Thoughtcast

4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Arcbound Ravager
3 Steel Overseer
4 Master of Etherium

The deck has performed really well and I won most of the real games. While goldfishing, it feels very powerful, and more importantly, consistent. The deck can easily just swarm the opponent, win with Cranial Plating that equips any of the 8 'evasion guys' (Ornithopter/Signal Pest), win out of nowhere with Ravager + Disciple, or just wait for the ultimate Tezz experience.

Enjoy and try the list. Comment and critique are welcome as always!

EDIT: More comments on the specific card choices can be found in the Tezzeret Affinity thread http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19749-Tezzeret-Affinity/page2, #26.

No frogmites? I'd advice you to take out the Darkslick Shores. You're better off with Glimmervoid (I run 2).

[kortero]

What does a 2/2 vanilla creature really do for the deck? I just can't see how it would improve the deck in any way, and as the list is already really tight, I can't think of anything to cut for Frogmites even if I wanted them in.

I'm also interested what would be the benefits of Glimmervoid over Darkslick Shore in a U/B build like mine? At least Darkslick Shore stays in play after Deed destroys every artifact one controls. It might be different if I wanted to splash a third color for sideboard purposes, but couple of Glimmervoids are not enough to make a third color viable and as I want to play Ancient Tombs, I'm better off with two colors. I could of course play Underground Seas, but as Darkslick Shore comes into play untapped 99,8% of the time, I decided not give Merfolk the option to Islandwalk us to death and stick with the Shores.

[Greenpoe]

In Kortero's build, Darksteel Citadel is better than Glimmervoid, perhaps better than Darkslick shores since you're turn 1 land is immune to wasteland, sinkhole, armageddon, vindicate, and deed. I run a similiar build, but with a few Confidants and the fourth Steel Overseer (wihout Disciple/Ravager- its not my style).

[kortero]

Darksteel Citadel might be a consideration, but I just don't like being colorscrewed. 8 artifact lands also feel enough since I don't play any Frogmites or Myr Enforcers. Even with the Shores in the deck I find myself sometimes needing blue or black mana which just isn't available.

Dual lands are needed even more post board since I'm thinking of packing colored spells (Thoughseizes, Engineered Plagues or even Spell Pierces) in the sideboard, but I don't really have any concrete sideplans for the deck yet.

[Greenpoe]

Darksteel Citadel might be a consideration, but I just don't like being colorscrewed. 8 artifact lands also feel enough since I don't play any Frogmites or Myr Enforcers. Even with the Shores in the deck I find myself sometimes needing blue or black mana which just isn't available.

Dual lands are needed even more post board since I'm thinking of packing colored spells (Thoughseizes, Engineered Plagues or even Spell Pierces) in the sideboard, but I don't really have any concrete sideplans for the deck yet.

I'm running 3x Chalice and Phyrexian Revoker in the board so I can drop the Signal Pests for it. Springleafs usually get dropped on turn 1 anyway, so Chalice has little effect. Chalice @1 + Revoker on LED = win vs. combo. Vs. control, I'd side in the same things (shut down brainstorms and 1cc removal) with Revoker on Sensei's Top.

[kortero]

Yeah, I'm not going to put Chalice on my sideboard since I run more 1cc spells than you do (Disciples), but Revoker is going to find it's way to the sideboard for sure. I was thinking of complementing Revokers with Thoughtseizes and maybe even some Spell Pierces in the combo matchup, and all the three cards are useful also against problematic cards such as Pernicious Deed. Thoughtseizes and Pierces hit also Null Rod, Hurkyl's Recall or other spell that might cause problems for us.

A really quick draft out of my head would be:

4 Engineered Plague (Goblins, Merfolk, Elves)
2 Umezawa's Jitte (Aggressive decks, Burn)
3 Phyrexian Revoker (Combo, Deed, maybe Vial/Top)
3 Thoughtseize (Combo, Control)
3 Spell Pierce (Combo, Control)

I don't really know if we need to pack some graveyard removal on the SB. Someone with a better knowledge of Affinitys bad matchups could enlighten me if I need to fit 2-3 Relic of Progenituses to the side board. :)

[The Big Ragu]

What does a 2/2 vanilla creature really do for the deck? I just can't see how it would improve the deck in any way, and as the list is already really tight, I can't think of anything to cut for Frogmites even if I wanted them in.

I'm also interested what would be the benefits of Glimmervoid over Darkslick Shore in a U/B build like mine? At least Darkslick Shore stays in play after Deed destroys every artifact one controls. It might be different if I wanted to splash a third color for sideboard purposes, but couple of Glimmervoids are not enough to make a third color viable and as I want to play Ancient Tombs, I'm better off with two colors. I could of course play Underground Seas, but as Darkslick Shore comes into play untapped 99,8% of the time, I decided not give Merfolk the option to Islandwalk us to death and stick with the Shores.

I'm going to quote Izor from this very same thread: "There is absolutely no way an Affinity build can run less than 4 Frogmites. Frogmites are the main accelerators of the deck, and they have been since Mirrodin came out."

They're an essential coponent in the deck. Paying either 1 or 0 mana for a 2/2 artifact creature is irreplaceable.

If you're running a u/b build, then Glimmervoid would be pointless, but I don't understand why you wouldn't want to run a 3 color deck in the first place. You're already exclusively running non basic lands, and you have plenty of manna fixers available to you.

Also, Tormod's Crypt is slightly better than Relic in this deck.

[RexFTW]

Signal pest is the bomb in this deck.

Myr Enforce > deed.

that is all.

[Karhumies]

I don't really know if we need to pack some graveyard removal on the SB. Someone with a better knowledge of Affinitys bad matchups could enlighten me if I need to fit 2-3 Relic of Progenituses to the side board. :)

If anyone is running Dredge or Welder-animator in your meta, you will need 3-4x Tormod's Crypt in the SB. Dredge is the only aggro-combo deck which is actually faster in combat than Affinity, and a turn 2 Blazing Archon via Entomb->Exhume is a serious problem. The secondary choice for grave hate in sb is Leyline of the Void, NOT Relic of Progenitus. Relic is only used in decks which are scared of opposing Tarmogoyf/Knight of the Reliquary/Terravore. Affinity-type decks traditionally laugh at them, because we have much bigger lords and Plating.

[Karhumies]

Sorry, but at that point the list doesn't belong in affinity anymore. There isn't a single affinity card in it.

...which is exactly why I generated the list of 9 current Affinity-type decks. Only 1-2 of them run Frogmite and/or Enforcer anymore, and even Thoughtcast is being dropped from many other builds.

A 2/2 vanilla and 4/4 vanilla just are not worth spending the MD slots for anymore. Not even if they are under-costed for their power/toughness ratio (which they are not so much anymore). In practise, we need more relevant board state effects, which is why IMO Signal Pest/Steel Overseer/Phyrexian Revoker > Frogmite and Etched Champion/Esperzoa > Myr Enforcer.

Signal Pest is a more relevant creature than Frogmite, because it comes active just as quickly, has evasion, gives potentially more than "just +2 power = damage" to a full-scale attack, and can chump block pretty much as effectively in today's metagame (non-flying toughness 2 or less creatures which are meant for attacking the opponent are getting extinct as we speak).

While Phyrexian Revoker and Steel Overseer cost (in practise) more than Frogmite, they have the same power but a much, much more relevant effect.

...furthermore, the "Lord effects" of Master of Etherium + Steel Overseer + Signal Pest DO stack up, and should not be negated.


Etched Champion is more relevant than Myr Enforcer, because they tend to cost roughly the same amount of mana, but E.Champion has (usually) evasion and makes for a much better blocker. On offense without Plating, Enforcer is slightly better, though.

Esperzoa is more relevant than Myr Enforcer, because they tend to cost roughly the same amount of mana, but flying makes a big difference. Sure, 'zoa dies to Lightning Bolt, but that's far from the most common creature removal used nowadays.


...and as an added bonus, having less Affinity mechanic = need for less artifact lands = Pernicious Deed and Engineered Explosives @ 0 and other similar cards do not outright kill your lands as often. Although, I can see the flip side of the coin of having cmc=7 Enforcer getting past Counterbalance and surviving Pernicious Deed/Engineered Explosives.



4 Engineered Plague (Goblins, Merfolk, Elves)


Etched Champion > Engineered Plague vs Merfolk and Goblins.

[Lusian]

is closing the vial affinity thread up for discussion ? since vial is out and affinity is only thoughtcast

[Karhumies]

is closing the vial affinity thread up for discussion ? since vial is out and affinity is only thoughtcast

Branching off the discussion into New & Developmental sounds plausible to me. There are very different approaches, some or all of which may eventually become Established after Besieged gets tournament-legal.

[Greenpoe]

I've been playing 3x Phyrexian Revoker maindeck and he's been great, although I think I would only play him maindeck if you're running Steel Overseer, since a 2/1 often does not want to attack unless buffed by Overseer or Master. I'm also loving the addition of Ancient Tomb to support Tezz. Darksteel Citadel+Tezz=Indestructible 5/5. I'm also leaning toward -1 land (15 total) and adding the fourth Springleaf Drum. I'm still liking my Confidant+Overseer build (even with Thoughtcast).

[hypaflight]

Tezz is interesting and upon making a double take on what exactly he does I've been curious as to how to plug him in. but I only see him as 2-3 of to give us some reach aside from Disciple if you still run him. I've personally tried ditching Disciple for Signal Pest and I like the speed although I don't know how much I'll miss the range on a gummed up board.

Signal Pest seems to be getting the job done and drops early enough to sneak in some hits with Thopters and Memnites but is still relevant later on.

As you can see I still run Vials and since I put in Bobs and Mystics for my CA. I find that Bobs and Thoughtcast are totally different and shoulndn't be compared. Bobs give you CA farther into the game and should be played after initial threats. Thoughtcast gives you gas now to win next turn or so. When played right Bobs IMO get you farther.

Here's my list for reference.

Creatures:
4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
4 Dark Confidant
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Signal Pest
4 Master of Etherium
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Stoneforge Mystic

Other Spells:
4 Aether Vial
3 Springleaf Drum
3 Mox Opal
2 Cranial Plating
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands:
4 Ancient Den
4 Seat of Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
3 Glimmervoid
2 Ancient Tomb

SB:
2 Tormods
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Etched Champion
1 Ronom Unicorn
1 Kami of Ancient Law
3 Path to Exile
1 Krosan Grip

[The Big Ragu]

Signal Pest is the shit.

Thoughtcast >>>>>>>> Dark Confidant. Confidant just doesn't fit in very well in this deck. Thoughtcast and Cranial Plating should both be an automatic 4x. They're probably the two best cards in the deck.

[Greenpoe]

I run both Thoughtcast and Bob. Card advantage wins games. Lands+zero drops makes up for random 5-damage from Thoughtcast. Plus, they usually kill Bob before anything else, which is 1 less removal for your aggro critters.

[hypaflight]

Signal Pest is the shit.

Thoughtcast >>>>>>>> Dark Confidant. Confidant just doesn't fit in very well in this deck. Thoughtcast and Cranial Plating should both be an automatic 4x. They're probably the two best cards in the deck.

Yes Signal Pest is.

I'd really beg to disagree on the Thoughtcast vs Bob thing. They work in two completely different ways. Thoughtcast gives you more cards to use ASAP. Bob on the other hand works as longer term card draw, a lightning rod, and yes, occasionally a beat stick. The Key to bob is playing him after threats. After you've landed your hand is ideally when you play him. It's either they use removal on that Master you dropped the previous turn or take a beating and "waste" removal on Bob. And you can always Vial him in so the decisions become a bit trickier for your opponent.

But I'll agree that Plating in most lists should be a 4 of. I've always played as much of it as I could tbh. But I decided to cut it down due to my Mystics played main. And they pan out well as 2 and since I have a Jitte for those times where they aren't what I need.

[Pltnmngl]

To everyone that is testing Phyrexian Revoker:

What are you usually naming in each matchup? Have you tried using it with Canonist against combo?

[Nonkel]

To everyone that is testing Phyrexian Revoker:

What are you usually naming in each matchup? Have you tried using it with Canonist against combo?

Naming LED when you know you are facing combo seems like the most obvious way to go...

[Puzzle]

I'd really beg to disagree on the Thoughtcast vs Bob thing. They work in two completely different ways. Thoughtcast gives you more cards to use ASAP. Bob on the other hand works as longer term card draw, a lightning rod, and yes, occasionally a beat stick. The Key to bob is playing him after threats. After you've landed your hand is ideally when you play him. It's either they use removal on that Master you dropped the previous turn or take a beating and "waste" removal on Bob. And you can always Vial him in so the decisions become a bit trickier for your opponent.
1. If MoE is a game-winner in a given game and you have reason to suspect the opponent has removal, you want Confidant out first to draw the removal.
If not, a good opponent won't waste removal on it anyway.

2. An early Confidant draws more cards. The opponent doesn't always have removal immediately.

3. Mana-curving generally calls for Confidant out first.

4. Giving the opponent a choice you could make for him is rarely a good strategy, at least not against a good player.

[Karhumies]

In addition to above:

5. If you have already established/run out of your threats = got to 3 lands and 4 overall mana, why not run something that maximizes the utility of this "leftover mana" or "curve-out". For example, running Jace 2.0 (which immediately brainstorms 3 top cards instead of Dark Confidant's 1 top card next turn) or Tezzeret 2.0 (which immediately creates virtual card advantage by turning "useless" lands into relevant 5/5 creatures) instead of Dark Confidant?

I'm sorry, but if you don't plan to drop Dark Confidant early in the game to generate card advantage over time, there are simply better choices to be run instead of him as the "end-game cards".

[The Big Ragu]

Confidant is pretty useless in the late game. Thoughtcast is always beneficial to draw into.

[gnat]

Confidant is just wrong. Affinity should imo stay out of the long game. Isn't its strength supposed to be its speed?
We should make affinity as fast as possible as that's probably where the most successes are to be achieved. Affinity just doesn't have the tools to combat in the long game.

Or am I wrong?

[SpikeyMikey]

Confidant is just wrong. Affinity should imo stay out of the long game. Isn't its strength supposed to be its speed?
We should make affinity as fast as possible as that's probably where the most successes are to be achieved. Affinity just doesn't have the tools to combat in the long game.

Or am I wrong?

You're right and you're wrong. Affinity's strength, and we're talking pre-SOM traditional builds here, was its speed. But its greatest weakness and the reason it wasn't a tier deck in Legacy is because it had no disruption and no meaningful interactions. Lots of decks in Legacy are fast. But ANT is a dozen times stronger than SI because it can do more than goldfish and hope the opponent can't answer it. And that's all Affinity did. It had no disruption. Goblins is fast and it packs 6-8 mana disruption lands and 4-8 removal spells between Gempalm, Stingscourger, Lightning Bolt, Sharpshooter and SGC. It can win turn 3-5 and still interact. Affinity is the same speed but lacking the interactions. Fish kills slightly slower but has even more interactions with Force, Daze, Pierce and Wasteland as well as Reejery to temporarily remove blockers. Affinity has Plating on Ornithopter. That's your big trump. But with Revoker and Cannonist, you have a disruption plan.

Faster isn't necessarily better. Most Zoo decks have gone away from Lynx builds and towards Punishing Fire builds. You have worse speed but better interaction and mid-late game card advantage. And while you might think Thoughtcast is good, it's not on par with Standstill or Ringleader. I think (and this without testing, so take it with a grain of salt) that Shared Discovery or Ancestral Visions or Standstill would be better for this deck.

Whether or not the disruption and reach available to Affinity is on par with Fish/Goblins I don't know, but it will have to get there before Affinity can become a serious contender. Having excellent disruption against combo isn't as relevant as having excellent game against blue, but it's a step in the right direction.

[hypaflight]

1. If MoE is a game-winner in a given game and you have reason to suspect the opponent has removal, you want Confidant out first to draw the removal.
If not, a good opponent won't waste removal on it anyway.

2. An early Confidant draws more cards. The opponent doesn't always have removal immediately.

3. Mana-curving generally calls for Confidant out first.

4. Giving the opponent a choice you could make for him is rarely a good strategy, at least not against a good player.

The thing is Bob is always good played early or late. If I have nothing better to drop then I'll drop him early. If it eats removal then it saved a threat later on. If I play it after threats, which I believe is better than it standing there alone, then it poses a huge problem for my oppenent since it gives me huge stream of gas.

So I agree with points 1, 2, and 3 it just really depends on the situation. As for 4, what choice are we talking about here?

And for point 5. It's really simple, Bob is cheap, has a body, and interacts well with Vial. He isn't a "late game card" and I'm not lobbying for Affinity to have a late game. Affinity has no business planning for a late game guaranteed. What I'm thinking about is slowing the deck down a little to give it more relevance mid game. This way the deck still has the nut draw to win with early beats but also has the versatility in utility creatures through Bob and Mystic to win mid game.

I just honestly think Bob, having a body, and acting as a rod are two good reasons to play him. If you got removal then you got me, if you don't then you're screwed. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that the way he's relevant to other decks anyway?

[Karhumies]

Brief list of some different varieties of "affinity-type" Legacy decks, which are at least borderline popular/playable even nowadays:

...

7) Affinity Stax
Signature cards: Vedalken Certarch, Tangle Wire, Wasteland
Birth / initial rise in popularity: work in progress since Scars of Mrrodin (Vedalken Certarch); arguably earlier (unsuccessful) deck building attempts have also been made; no complete deck list which would have fared well in tournaments so far


With Ichor Wellspring and Tezzeret 2.0 becoming tournament-legal, we may now have a contender:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19779-Cantrip-Ravager

[RexFTW]

I think most of the lists in here are going in the wrong direction. test this list and see if it works better for you:

Maindeck:

Artifacts
3 Cranial Plating
3 Springleaf Drum
1 Sword of the Meek
1 Thopter Foundry

Artifact Creatures
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Signal Pest
2 Etched Champion
4 Frogmite
4 Memnite
3 Myr Enforcer
2 Ornithopter

Artifact Lands
2 Darksteel Citadel

Creatures
4 Disciple of the Vault

Legendary Artifacts
3 Mox Opal

Sorceries
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Thoughtcast

Artifact Lands
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Tree of Tales
4 Vault of Whispers

Sideboard:
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Engineered Plague
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Krosan Grip
3 Thoughtseize



The goal of the list i posted is to win consistently on turn 3. If you do not win on turn 3, you are VERY vulnerable to things like null rod, Pernicious Deed etc.

This is why it does not play master of etherium, Tezzeret etc.

There are 3 cards in the deck for "lategame inevitibility", the 2 etched champions and 1 thopter foundry. These are a better choice than confidant or tezzeret for two reasons: they synnergize better with the rest of the deck and they can help you win on turn 3 with an acceleration heavy draw.

The sideboard is focused on combo because that is by far your worst matchup.

To elaborate a bit more, winning more quickly than the tribal decks is vital as well. There is no way you can compete with the card advantage of a goblin ringleader or huge merefolk in a long game. You simply need to win first.

[Sims]

I think most of the lists in here are going in the wrong direction. test this list and see if it works better for you:

Maindeck:

Artifacts
3 Cranial Plating
3 Springleaf Drum
1 Sword of the Meek
1 Thopter Foundry

Artifact Creatures
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Signal Pest
2 Etched Champion
4 Frogmite
4 Memnite
3 Myr Enforcer
2 Ornithopter

Artifact Lands
2 Darksteel Citadel

Creatures
4 Disciple of the Vault

Legendary Artifacts
3 Mox Opal

Sorceries
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Thoughtcast

Artifact Lands
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Tree of Tales
4 Vault of Whispers

Sideboard:
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Engineered Plague
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Krosan Grip
3 Thoughtseize


A little more would be nice though. Why do you think people in the thread are heading the wrong way? What strengths does your list provide that the others lack?

Giving more substance than just a list is helpful.

[RexFTW]

The goal of the list i posted is to win consistently on turn 3. If you do not win on turn 3, you are VERY vulnerable to things like null rod, Pernicious Deed etc.

This is why it does not play master of etherium, Tezzeret etc.

There are 3 cards in the deck for "lategame inevitibility", the 2 etched champions and 1 thopter foundry. These are a better choice than confidant or tezzeret for two reasons: they synnergize better with the rest of the deck and they can help you win on turn 3 with an acceleration heavy draw.

The sideboard is focused on combo because that is by far your worst matchup.

[Sims]

The goal of the list i posted is to win consistently on turn 3. If you do not win on turn 3, you are VERY vulnerable to things like null rod, Pernicious Deed etc.

This is why it does not play master of etherium, Tezzeret etc.

There are 3 cards in the deck for "lategame inevitibility", the 2 etched champions and 1 thopter foundry. These are a better choice than confidant or tezzeret for two reasons: they synnergize better with the rest of the deck and they can help you win on turn 3 with an acceleration heavy draw.

The sideboard is focused on combo because that is by far your worst matchup.

Thank you for elaborating :)

I agree with this to an extent. The faster you win the less vulnerable you are to the hate cards, but i think this can be alleviated depending upon the matchups your facing and which hate you're expecting. I've been testing a Tezzeret Artifact Aggro list (I'm not calling it affinity anymore when at the moment i'm running a whole of 6 cards of affinity) that has been showing some promise. Running non-artifact lands (Ancient tomb, islands) and Phyrexian Revoker has helped limit the impact of Deed/Vial/etc.... but Null Rod i have no maindeck out to aside from just hope what i've got on the board can turn sideways and get there. However, i don't expect to see Null Rods anywhere near as often as Deeds. So that's something to consider when deciding what direction you wish to go with the deck. However I do feel my deck is leaning more towards an aggro-control deck, so my take away is going to be different than yours.

I'll give your list some testing as the more aggressive option while I'm trying to refine my list, and come back with some results.

[RexFTW]

I give a ton of respect to anyone who is willing to actually test!

To elaborate a bit more, winning more quickly than the tribal decks is vital as well. There is no way you can compete with the card advantage of a goblin ringleader or huge merefolk in a long game. You simply need to win first.

side note: if you want to play non-affinity artifact aggro you should probably be playing this: Forgemaster (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=5592&iddeck=40473)

[Greenpoe]

To elaborate a bit more, winning more quickly than the tribal decks is vital as well. There is no way you can compete with the card advantage of a goblin ringleader or huge merefolk in a long game. You simply need to win first.


This is why Steel Overseer is important for any of the slower builds. Merfolk and Goblins have trouble fighting against +1/+1 every turn, especially when you could topdeck an instant win (Cranial Plating).

[RexFTW]

like in my previous post.... if you want to play past turn 3 wouldnt you rather be playing Wurmcoil Engine and Myr Battlesphere than Steel Overseer?

[Pltnmngl]

Anybody want to talk about the deck that Top 16 at SCG Indy?

Affinity
A Legacy Magic deck, by Timothy Morrison
16th place at a tournament in Indianapolis on 2011-02-06
As reported at http://www.starcitygames.com

Maindeck:

Artifacts
4 Cranial Plating
3 Springleaf Drum
2 Thopter Foundry

Artifact Creatures
4 Arcbound Ravager
3 Etched Champion
4 Frogmite
4 Memnite
4 Myr Enforcer
2 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest

Artifact Lands
4 Darksteel Citadel

Creatures
4 Disciple of the Vault

Legendary Artifacts
3 Mox Opal

Sorceries
4 Thoughtcast

Artifact Lands
1 Ancient Den
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers

Lands
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Glimmervoid

Sideboard:
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Nihil Spellbomb
4 Pithing Needle
3 Engineered Plague
2 Darkblast

6 0-cost creatures, 6 engine cards(3 mox 3 drum), 6 sac outlets. Land choice is a little questionable, but overall a very tight deck.

[Greenpoe]

like in my previous post.... if you want to play past turn 3 wouldnt you rather be playing Wurmcoil Engine and Myr Battlesphere than Steel Overseer?

I'd rather stick with Affinity for consistency over the Monolith-type builds. Plus, Cranial Plating makes the deck more reslient against removal.

[RexFTW]

Agree with Pltnmngl, This is the right way to play affinity.

[hypaflight]

like in my previous post.... if you want to play past turn 3 wouldnt you rather be playing Wurmcoil Engine and Myr Battlesphere than Steel Overseer?

If I didn't want to play past turn 3 I think I would play Combo.

As for the top 16 in SGC Indy. I shuffled it up and I dunno, I'm not so impressed. It sets up fast but it's a bit underwhelming. It heavily relies on the plating or Disciple+Sac outlet. If It doesn't top deck any of those it has no way of getting through. I felt like I was a playing a bad weenie deck.

I dunno, maybe it's just my results. Anybody else try sleeving it up? I'm honestly confused how it worked.

[sligh16]

I'm actually cutting ornithopters for Signal Pests. They're still unblockable and have a bigger impact in the first turns. Tezzeret is a beast, currently running 3. Finally, 4 Etched Champions are a must, since against Zoo and Goblins are a huge beating.

Things that I have cut:

Disciple- It's just too slow, and with only one in play, it does alomst nothing.

Ornithopter- Replacing it with Signal Pests, since too many times Ornithpter is just a blocker for the 4 or more first turns. The only thing that I miss is blocking a Turn one Lackey and surviving.

Frogmites and Enforcers: I've not cutted them completely, just leveling their numbers to make place for other things, mainly Tezzerets and Champions.

Finally, Galvanic Blast is just insane. Excellent topdeck, delivering the last hit, and solid the rest of the match. You cant ask anymore for only one red mana.

[zpikduM]

I'm actually cutting ornithopters for Signal Pests. They're still unblockable and have a bigger impact in the first turns. Tezzeret is a beast, currently running 3. Finally, 4 Etched Champions are a must, since against Zoo and Goblins are a huge beating.

Things that I have cut:

Disciple- It's just too slow, and with only one in play, it does alomst nothing.

Ornithopter- Replacing it with Signal Pests, since too many times Ornithpter is just a blocker for the 4 or more first turns. The only thing that I miss is blocking a Turn one Lackey and surviving.

Finally, Galvanic Blast is just insane. Excellent topdeck, delivering the last hit, and solid the rest of the match. You cant ask anymore for only one red mana.

I agree with a lot of these. I have not tested Tezzeret yet, but he looks promising.

[RexFTW]

Disciple does nothing???? He was BANNED.... making him the most unfair card in the deck.

Sligh16: "Im playing aggro and cutting my first turn plays for 4th turn plays. Weeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!"

[RexFTW]

I know everyone wants to play with toys from the new set.... so lets take a look at him.


Lets examine his abilities:


+1: Look at the top five cards of your library. You may reveal an artifact card from among them and put it into your hand. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.

If you want to draw cards, glimpse of nature and thoughtcast are going to give you 2-3 cards for just 1 mana of a single color. There is clearly no reason to pay 4 mana and 2 colors to draw 1 card. If you plan to play this ability you better be playing myr enforcer to defend the turn you use it.



-1: Target artifact becomes a 5/5 artifact creature.
This is optimally 5 damage to the opponents face. On a signal pest or Ornithopter you will have a good chance of getting in. For only a 3 colorless mana investment, Cranial plating does much more. For 2 colored mana you can equip plating as an instant. Obviously, plating is much better.... but you can only play 4 plating. For just 1 mana you can do 4 damage with galvanic blast which also deals with hate like Kataki, Wars Wage and Phyrexian Revoker. This ability is obviously bad.


-4: Target player loses X life and you gain X life, where X is twice the number of artifacts you control.
The only thing that may make this worthwhile is getting to 4 loyalty, which forces the opponent to attack (or you will ultimate), opening up a path for your guys.

The ideal play would be: Play Tezzeret, +1, reveal Myr Enforcer, play Myr Enforcer. Is this play good enough? possibly. Is it worth risking missing a myr enforcer? probably not.

[Tao]

I wonder how would you ensure that you always draw Galvanic Blast when you want to pump a creature and Glimpse when you want to draw cards. Tezzeret is flexible, you have to take that into consideration before you just compare each of his abilities with different cards.

[RexFTW]

Good point, but how can you ensure you will draw 4 mana sources, of the correct colors to play tezzeret :). And they also cost 1 mana instead of 4 lol! that is quite a big edge.

The things tezz does are also in the deck - in a redundant fashion already. There are cranial platings and galvanic blasts for the -1 ability, glimpses and thoughtcasts for the +1 ability and ravagers + disciple of the vaults for the -4. And all of these cards cost much much less mana for mostly better effects.


Should Bant decks play bant charm instead of swords to plowshares? It is quite versatile but far less efficient.

[Karhumies]

I know everyone wants to play with toys from the new set.... so lets take a look at him.


The key thing with Tezzeret is to run enough mana acceleration (Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors) to cast him on T2-T3. For example:
T1 artifact land, Memnite, Mox Opal, random artifact.
T2 Ancient Tomb, Tezzeret, turn random artifact into 5/5 (Memnite is there to chump to protect Tezzeret). Swing for 5.
T3 turn artifact land into 5/5. Swing for 10.
T4 turn Mox Opal into 5/5. Swing for 15.

In practise, that's 30 combat damage from 1 card over a period of 3 turns. Simply put, T2 Tezzeret has the potential to dish out more damage over the course of 1 game than a T2 Cranial Plating + equip. Played on T3, the cards are roughly equal in value. From T4-> Tezzeret should rather aim for the ultimatum, and by that time a topdecked Cranial Plating should be better than a topdecked Tezzeret.

I agree that Tezzeret is an inconsistent addition to the deck and he needs a LOT of mana accel to be of any use whatsoever to us. But if you are indeed packing that much mana accel, Tezzeret is almost always better than the card he replaces.

[Tao]

Good point, but how can you ensure you will draw 4 mana sources, of the correct colors to play tezzeret :). And they also cost 1 mana instead of 4 lol! that is quite a big edge.


Then why even compare them? These cards obviously have nothing in common, neither functionality nor power level nor Mana cost.

[tjmorrison]

Hello everyone. Im the guy that posted 16th at the scg in indy with my affinity list. after reading some of the posts about it on here, i figured i might as well post my two cents about the deck, explain some of the decisions and why they are correct, and some of the things i would change, as well as my report persay.
Maindeck:

Artifacts
4 Cranial Plating
3 Springleaf Drum
2 Thopter Foundry

Artifact Creatures
4 Arcbound Ravager
3 Etched Champion
4 Frogmite
4 Memnite
4 Myr Enforcer
2 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest

Artifact Lands
4 Darksteel Citadel

Creatures
4 Disciple of the Vault

Legendary Artifacts
3 Mox Opal

Sorceries
4 Thoughtcast

Artifact Lands
1 Ancient Den
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers

Lands
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Glimmervoid

Sideboard:
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Nihil Spellbomb
4 Pithing Needle
3 Engineered Plague
2 Darkblast


First off, signal pest is amazing in this deck, it has the ability to put an opponent into serious trouble early. he is definitly better than ornithopter (every time i draw an ornithopter i get mad!), however ornithopter is a neccesary bad card because of springleaf drum. Ornithopter get sacced to foundry or to ravager as soon as they hit the board usually because it dies to every removal spell as soon as ravager or cranial plating hit the board.
Thopter Foundry is all around sick, it by itself wins your control match ups, and makes spot removal virtually useless against you, as well as combos with disciple, makes a huge flyer with ravager, makes your memnites better, gains you life in the aggro match, turns your mid-late game land draws useful, and is really sick with a signal pest on board. 2 was the perfect amount, i wouldnt go lower, and sword of the meek doesnt fit the deck well enough to make it relevant. we tested the hell out of it, in a blue moon it was good, the rest of the time it was just awful.

etched champion is amazing everytime you draw it. You are going to power it out turn 3, 5 out of 7 games its in your opener. It IS Progenitus, and CANNOT BE KILLED by and spot removal which makes it much better than master of etherium ever could be. i dont know if people running master are aware that there are cards called STP, Krosan Grip, Ancient Grudge, Vindicate, Putrefy, Smother, and Path to Exile running around in this format, which makes the card really bad because you have NO WAYS to stop any of this.

Glimpse of Nature does not belong in Affinity. Here are reasons why: 1. It allows you to keep really bad hands. Would you keep the following? memnite, memnite, ornithopter, seat of synod, vault of whispers, springleaf drum, mox opal? NO. it has no real action. If that springleaf drum was a glimpse would you keep it? YES. they force your glimpse and youre in the same boat as if you kept the first hand, no action. secondly it is green, and as we should all know by now there is only 1 good green card that has every been printed (tarmogoyf).

The land base was great all day too. Darksteel Citadel is your basic land for the deck, its the only one that cant be wastelanded, and since only 10% of your deck has color it makes sense to play it as a 4 of. kataki is also bad so 2 sources that arent artifact mana is better than none. I ran the 1 of glimmervoid to help with color fixing and 1 of ancient den to help cast thopter foundry. blinkmoth nexus is better than inkmoth, because if you have your opponent below 10 it makes sense to just kill them instead of giving them 9 infect.

I think i can sum this up best with the word synergy. Each cards function is synergetic with the next and thats why I was successful, and without mulling to 4 against elf combo game 3, and my opponent cheating with goblins twice, im positive that i could have went X-0 on the day. It was a blast playing.

[tjmorrison]

oh yeah, cut 1 bad ornithopter add 1 insanely good champion. and this is THE best and fastest aggro deck in the format. tested and proven.

[tjmorrison]

and to the guy who said cut disciple.........even though I shouldnt even really respond to this....... if it sticks, you win. just saying, cutting it is a worse idea than nail filled condoms.

[Caspid]

Thanks TJM, explained a lot.

Thoughts about Ancient Tomb? An extra turn's worth of mana sounds well worth the cost, cuz most of the time you're fast enough that it won't matter. It's not an artifact though, so it might end up balancing out with your affinity creatures pretty often, but it seems like sometimes it does net you a virtual Time Walk.

[Galroth]

TJM - Nice decklist and congrats on the finish.

The slots I wonder about most (and I'm no expert Affinity player) are Myr Enforcer and Frogmite... they're, well kinda vanilla. They come online quick and can attack hard - I guess what I'm really wondering is if you're pushing to be that explosive beatdown role, or if something that is a little more conservative and controlling would be better. Example: I've been wanting to run Ethersworn Canonist in the Myr Enforcer spot.

How successful were you with Thoughtcast? A long time Affinity staple, but there are so many other options I'm wondering if you'd consider it a core element of the deck, or something that might be a flex spot.

Lastly, you said 2 Thopter Foundry was the perfect number. Seems like an awesome mid to late game option. My first thought was bump it to 3. Any thoughts?

[The Big Ragu]

I run just one Thopter Foundry. It's a fun, flavorful little card that gives you some solid options, but I've never seen it as something that really sets this deck on fire. Can't believe some people still refuse to run 4 Thoughtcasts. 2 cards for 1 blue mana is just bonkers.

[Pltnmngl]

Hello everyone. Im the guy that posted 16th at the scg in indy with my affinity list. after reading some of the posts about it on here, i figured i might as well post my two cents about the deck, explain some of the decisions and why they are correct, and some of the things i would change, as well as my report persay.
Maindeck:

Artifacts
4 Cranial Plating
3 Springleaf Drum
2 Thopter Foundry

Artifact Creatures
4 Arcbound Ravager
3 Etched Champion
4 Frogmite
4 Memnite
4 Myr Enforcer
2 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest

Artifact Lands
4 Darksteel Citadel

Creatures
4 Disciple of the Vault

Legendary Artifacts
3 Mox Opal

Sorceries
4 Thoughtcast

Artifact Lands
1 Ancient Den
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers

Lands
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Glimmervoid

Sideboard:
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Nihil Spellbomb
4 Pithing Needle
3 Engineered Plague
2 Darkblast


First off, signal pest is amazing in this deck, it has the ability to put an opponent into serious trouble early. he is definitly better than ornithopter (every time i draw an ornithopter i get mad!), however ornithopter is a neccesary bad card because of springleaf drum. Ornithopter get sacced to foundry or to ravager as soon as they hit the board usually because it dies to every removal spell as soon as ravager or cranial plating hit the board.
Thopter Foundry is all around sick, it by itself wins your control match ups, and makes spot removal virtually useless against you, as well as combos with disciple, makes a huge flyer with ravager, makes your memnites better, gains you life in the aggro match, turns your mid-late game land draws useful, and is really sick with a signal pest on board. 2 was the perfect amount, i wouldnt go lower, and sword of the meek doesnt fit the deck well enough to make it relevant. we tested the hell out of it, in a blue moon it was good, the rest of the time it was just awful.

etched champion is amazing everytime you draw it. You are going to power it out turn 3, 5 out of 7 games its in your opener. It IS Progenitus, and CANNOT BE KILLED by and spot removal which makes it much better than master of etherium ever could be. i dont know if people running master are aware that there are cards called STP, Krosan Grip, Ancient Grudge, Vindicate, Putrefy, Smother, and Path to Exile running around in this format, which makes the card really bad because you have NO WAYS to stop any of this.

Glimpse of Nature does not belong in Affinity. Here are reasons why: 1. It allows you to keep really bad hands. Would you keep the following? memnite, memnite, ornithopter, seat of synod, vault of whispers, springleaf drum, mox opal? NO. it has no real action. If that springleaf drum was a glimpse would you keep it? YES. they force your glimpse and youre in the same boat as if you kept the first hand, no action. secondly it is green, and as we should all know by now there is only 1 good green card that has every been printed (tarmogoyf).

The land base was great all day too. Darksteel Citadel is your basic land for the deck, its the only one that cant be wastelanded, and since only 10% of your deck has color it makes sense to play it as a 4 of. kataki is also bad so 2 sources that arent artifact mana is better than none. I ran the 1 of glimmervoid to help with color fixing and 1 of ancient den to help cast thopter foundry. blinkmoth nexus is better than inkmoth, because if you have your opponent below 10 it makes sense to just kill them instead of giving them 9 infect.

I think i can sum this up best with the word synergy. Each cards function is synergetic with the next and thats why I was successful, and without mulling to 4 against elf combo game 3, and my opponent cheating with goblins twice, im positive that i could have went X-0 on the day. It was a blast playing.

Like I said before, I'm digging this list. Still not comfortable with the land choice, but I accept that.

If you don't mind giving us details, what went wrong?

Also, what adjustments would you make to the deck?

[Nidd]

Looks like after I've been advertising Thopter Foundry for what feels like months, people are catching up.
Seriously, forget Tezzeret. Thopter Foundry is the nuts.

[o.pala]

new tezzeret, top or flop ?

[the Thin White Duke]

To TJM:
It's a little shocking not to see Master of Etherium in your list. What's the reason he's not in there? CMC?

What are people's thoughts on Ichor Wellspring ? Probably not for an aggro deck?

[dsck]

To TJM:
It's a little shocking not to see Master of Etherium in your list. What's the reason he's not in there? CMC?

What are people's thoughts on Ichor Wellspring ? Probably not for an aggro deck?

Read what he posted...... Etheriums fights for same spot with Champions, but Champions dont die to every removal available.

[tjmorrison]

1st question regarding ancient tomb. Your lands already act as ancient tomb w/o the drawback. one of the benefits of this deck is you arent punished for playing your manabase unlike zoo. it also takes away from affinity.

2nd question, why not 3 thopter foundry? youre an aggro deck, and thopter foundry is your secondary win con, you dont want to draw it unless you need it. thopter foundry generally isnt a threat until you have a few damage in.

3rd, what went wrong? I didnt draw a second source of mana and had to mull to 4 so i lost against brian boss in round 5.

4th, what would you change? 4 pithing needles is too many so -1 needle, -4 chalice, +3 thorn of amethyst, +2 perish. maindeck, -1 ornithopter +1 etched champion.

5th, Tezzeret, you run 21 "land" or 18 depending on your build, why in the hell would you run a 4 drop?

6th, If youre going to play this, test the hell out of it and know your format, each of them you play differently, its not belcher, you dont go all in on turn 1.

Your match up key cards

Zoo, etched champion and signal pest (Frogmites become nacatyls, seems good to me) main deck, sb perish, and 2 needles (Jitte) 10-0 in games

Merfolk, 3 needle (jitte, commander, mutavault), DO NOT BOARD IN PLAGUE!!! maindeck key cards, champion, nexus, signal pest pst board 75% your favor

Goblins, 3 plague -2 foundry -1 memnite, champion is your go to guy 65% your favor

CBTOP, +3 needle 65 % your favor

[gnat]

1) Can you handle combo well enough with that sideboard? And what do you need darkblast for?
2) What do you think about more draw? Only 4x Thoughtcast is not much.

[tjmorrison]

depends on the combo deck, ant is really rough, but no deck is perfect against every deck in the field. show and tell is actually a good match up because youhit them fast early, and with a disciple of the vault, they kill themselves. ant i dont even consider a real deck, there are only 1 person i know that can play that deck right, and its ari lax. so in the 4-0 bracket hes the only one you will face. as far as the add'l draw effects, there really isnt any room for more. it would be 2 glimpse if i felt it was good enough, but its just too random, its not good every time you draw it, only on occasion. and it really sucks to draw it on turn 3 when your hand is dumped.

Darkblast is your only out to a kataki if they are running it, or a plague on spirits, unfortunately kataki costs 2 and plague costs 3 so it doesnt work. if i was to cut darkblast, it would be executioner's capsule

[Pltnmngl]

depends on the combo deck, ant is really rough, but no deck is perfect against every deck in the field. show and tell is actually a good match up because youhit them fast early, and with a disciple of the vault, they kill themselves. ant i dont even consider a real deck, there are only 1 person i know that can play that deck right, and its ari lax. so in the 4-0 bracket hes the only one you will face. as far as the add'l draw effects, there really isnt any room for more. it would be 2 glimpse if i felt it was good enough, but its just too random, its not good every time you draw it, only on occasion. and it really sucks to draw it on turn 3 when your hand is dumped.

Darkblast is your only out to a kataki if they are running it, or a plague on spirits, unfortunately kataki costs 2 and plague costs 3 so it doesnt work. if i was to cut darkblast, it would be executioner's capsule

Did you test Phyrexian Revoker? It seems like Pithing Needle is better for us in almost every situation in affinity.

[Greenpoe]

Did you test Phyrexian Revoker? It seems like Pithing Needle is better for us in almost every situation in affinity.

For builds running Steel Overseer and MOE, I would run a few maindeck Revokers. There's nothing like shutting down Vial/Pridemage/Top in game 1 on turn 1.

[1maarten1]

depends on the combo deck, ant is really rough, but no deck is perfect against every deck in the field. show and tell is actually a good match up because youhit them fast early, and with a disciple of the vault, they kill themselves. ant i dont even consider a real deck, there are only 1 person i know that can play that deck right, and its ari lax. so in the 4-0 bracket hes the only one you will face. as far as the add'l draw effects, there really isnt any room for more. it would be 2 glimpse if i felt it was good enough, but its just too random, its not good every time you draw it, only on occasion. and it really sucks to draw it on turn 3 when your hand is dumped.

Darkblast is your only out to a kataki if they are running it, or a plague on spirits, unfortunately kataki costs 2 and plague costs 3 so it doesnt work. if i was to cut darkblast, it would be executioner's capsule

Isnt Thoughtseize an option in place of Darkblast? Might need 3 thoughtseize tho, 2 is too less imo. Let me know what you think!

[The Big Ragu]

Thoughtseize/duress are bad choices for the deck. Affinity doesn't like to play contolish strategies very much. It wants to hit fast and hard, without worrying about creating a good defensive strategy. There are better options for the combo matchup (E. Canonist, Revoker, Chalice).

[RexFTW]

Thoughtseize/duress are bad choices for the deck. Affinity doesn't like to play contolish strategies very much. It wants to hit fast and hard, without worrying about creating a good defensive strategy. There are better options for the combo matchup (E. Canonist, Revoker, Chalice).

Thoughtseize is for Kataki, War's Wage, null rod , etc, and non storm combo (aka show and tell).



How successful were you with Thoughtcast? A long time Affinity staple, but there are so many other options I'm wondering if you'd consider it a core element of the deck, or something that might be a flex spot.
Thoughtcast is the best draw spell available in the format BY FAR. There is NO other spell that says u: draw 2 cards. on turn 2 or 3 when you are out of gas you can easily play thoughtcast AND the 2 cards you draw.

There is only 1 draw spell ever printed that is better than thoughtcast. Ill let you guess what it is..... and its banned in legacy.

[AggroSteve]

true, thoughtcast is the best carddraw at our disposal, but i would love to have another 2 slots for carddraw, and it should at least be allmost as good as thoughtcast

right now i am using glimpse, but it is true that it makes you keep hand you shouldn't, but is there a card better than glimpse ? maybe ichor wellspring ? it would be a cantrip and when you sac it with ravager or thopter foundry it is another cantrip, what do you guys think?

[RexFTW]

I would stick with Glimpse. Playing it correctly can be trickey though.

You may want to run 4, as the hands with 2x glimpse and a mox really crack wiiiidddeeee open. If you run the full 16 "free" guys your chances of hitting more each time you draw 2 is pretty decent.

[Sea R Hill]

depends on the combo deck, ant is really rough, but no deck is perfect against every deck in the field. show and tell is actually a good match up because youhit them fast early, and with a disciple of the vault, they kill themselves. ant i dont even consider a real deck, there are only 1 person i know that can play that deck right, and its ari lax. so in the 4-0 bracket hes the only one you will face. as far as the add'l draw effects, there really isnt any room for more. it would be 2 glimpse if i felt it was good enough, but its just too random, its not good every time you draw it, only on occasion. and it really sucks to draw it on turn 3 when your hand is dumped.

Darkblast is your only out to a kataki if they are running it, or a plague on spirits, unfortunately kataki costs 2 and plague costs 3 so it doesnt work. if i was to cut darkblast, it would be executioner's capsule

Well, it seems that you have a very weird end easy metagame.

Here Storm is all over the place and without Chalice and Ethersworn Cannonist you are a BYE. 3 Thorn of Amethyst is not gonna make you win even against a bad storm player.
And Kataki has never been played in Legacy, that is extended tech from many years ago...

[swordoffireandice]

Thoughtseize/duress are bad choices for the deck. Affinity doesn't like to play contolish strategies very much. It wants to hit fast and hard, without worrying about creating a good defensive strategy. There are better options for the combo matchup (E. Canonist, Revoker, Chalice).

I agree completely! these cards are good against more decks than just combo. Except for Chalice I play them maindeck.
I have 3 Canonist en 2 Revoker main.

[Bignasty197]

And Kataki has never been played in Legacy, that is extended tech from many years ago...

I play Bant and I actually keep 2 Kataki in the board just for Affinity. Its pretty brutal what Kataki does.
I had a game Saturday where I went turn 1 Needle on Cranial Plating, turn 2 Kataki, turn 3 Wasteland on a Great Furnace. I thought only Shrapnel Blast or Galvanic Blast could deal with him effectively, but it turned out he was running neither.

[swordoffireandice]

A quick question, say you sac everything, your entire board, to dump a crapload of counters on your etched champion and then attack? He doesn't have protection, right? Right.

Right.....without the Metalcraft no protection.

[RexFTW]

Kataki is also good against Vial, top or any other cheap artifact.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

A friend has tested this list with pretty good success. Try it out.

14 Land
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Den
4 Darksteel Citadel
2 Glimmervoid

31 Creatures
4 Memnite
4 Ornithoper
4 Signal Pest
4 Frogmite
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Etched Champion
4 Master of Etherium
3 Myr Enforcer

15 Spells
4 Thoughtcast
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Cranial Plating
3 Mox Opal

Etched Champion hoses aggro and tribal. There's 16 must counter threats (20 if you feel like including canonist.) Randomly loses to EE and Powder Keg.

[The Big Ragu]

That list looks far too mana intensive for its own good. Myr Enforcer I feel isn't as useful as it once was at this point. There's a number of cards that I don't run, but would consider running over Myr Enforcer. Etched Champion I see either as a metagame choice, or a potential sideboard card. It's expensive, and I wouldn't ever considering running more than 2 between my board and sideboard. No Vedalken Certarchs? Your deck would really benefit from a reduction in its mana expenses, and that card is one heck of a fine 1 drop.

[Pltnmngl]

Steadily climbing the ladder...

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=37037


Decent list. Galvanic Blast seems alright, but a red splash kind of meh to me.

[Tao]

This is my current list. Ancient Tomb is the nuts btw. There is really no reason not to play Tomb. Artifact lands count as Affinity for some spells, Ancient Tomb counts as Affinity for all spells. Not being an Artifact for Ravager and Plating is not nearly as relevant as attacking with Plating and/or playing Ravager/Overseer/Champion one turn earlier. City of Traitors is great, too, but only half the time good on T1 and multiples suck. It also allows for turn 1 Chalice of the Void on 1 - especially if they use Enlightened Tutor. You can side in Chalice for Pest in some matchups when on the play in G2 or G3 and you know they play a lot or dangerous CC 1 spells in addition to being good against Combo.

I tried to play Chalice maindeck but you really need every spell you can get and it made the deck inconsistent.

// Mana
4 [HOP] Seat of the Synod
3 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
3 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [LRW] Springleaf Drum
4 [SOM] Mox Opal

// Creatures
4 [SOM] Memnite
4 [R] Ornithopter
4 [MBS] Signal Pest
4 [MR] Frogmite
3 [FNM] Myr Enforcer

3 [SOM] Etched Champion
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
4 [M11] Steel Overseer

// Spells
4 [HOP] Cranial Plating
4 [MR] Thoughtcast

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 3 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 4 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 4 [FNM] Tormod's Crypt

[lambert101]

my own BUG home brew:

4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Disciple of the Vault
3 Etched Champion
4 Frogmite
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Phyrexian Walker

4 Cranial Plating
4 Glimpse of Nature
3 Mox Opal
3 Springleaf Drum
4 Thoughtcast

3 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Tree of Tales
4 Vault of Whispers

still working on sb and and please leave comments

[AggroSteve]

i do not think inkmoth nexus has a place in this deck.... actually blinkmoth nexus would be better suited if you ask me, otherwise i think phyrexian walker is just not needed since you allready have 8 creatures for cmc 0... if you want to stick with them i suggest trying erayo

[lambert101]

inkmouth is for the out of nowhere win and the walkers are place holders same as glimpse. Until affinity stabilizes with some sort of standard list. I would use blinkmouth but sadly do not have any

[Bignasty197]

As cool as Inkmoth Nexus with Cranial Plating sounds, I think you are just better off running Galvanic Blasts for that mid game push.

[The Big Ragu]

Inkmoth Nexus is far too slow to have any effect in this deck.

[Pltnmngl]

Until affinity stabilizes with some sort of standard list...

Lists have been pretty standard for a while:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/comparedeck.php?deck1=37037&deck2=36642

With a 13 card difference maindeck, it's pretty safe to say that Signal Pest and Memnite have found room, Etched Champion is no joke, and a lot of the classic cards are going nowhere.

[Tao]

Okay, since I got ignored with my last post. Let's discuss Ancient Tomb.

In my testing, it is flat out awesome. Obviously not in a list with overly many colored spells, but in a list that focusses on the beatdown plan. It often enough speeds up the deck by a full turn (T1 Ravager/Overseer/Pest+Drum/Drum+free creature + 1 Mana floating; Plating equip or Champion a turn earlier).

[AlexAI]

Tomb seems good, has the life loss been relevant in those games where they counter some business and you stumble for a few turns looking for extra business?

Do you miss Disciple and more consistent instant Plating equips with that list? My local meta likes sweepers + Emrakul so they usually pull their weight along with the wins I get from having that + Ravager/Foundry out at the same time. Plating tricks have been nice as well.

Has 4 Ornithopter felt like too many? Since Pest was printed I went to two and haven't really regretted it. Only reason I liked them was for evasive plating action and Pest does that as well.

I like your list, looks so much more streamlined than mine.

[lambert101]

Signal pest seems weak...sure its a mini lord but when you are swinging into goyf a nd knight is it really worth it, and ya it can carry plating but so can thopter

[Pltnmngl]

I have no issue swinging over them and giving use to other small creatures in my possession.

[Tao]

@AlexAI: It plays out consistently with many extremely fast hands for the price of having less reach in form of Blast & Disciple. It might be a good idea to add Disciple back for some Ornithopers and play less City of Traitors / Citadels for 4 Vault of Whispers. Instantly equipping Plating would be another advantage of that.
I am not sure about the exact list, probably you are right about Disciple and Vault of Whispers. But I am 100% sure that Tomb belongs in the deck. The deck is too fast to care about life loss - especially those hands with Tomb.

@lambert: Pest might be bad in theory, but I don't think anyone who tested with it gone back from it yet. It is really good, doing a lot of things.

[Arcbound Vacuum Cleaner]

Signal Pest just doesn't seem worth the 1 to me. If I'd spend the 1, it'd be on a worker, maybe a certarch. But the memnites serve as great 1/1s for now.

[Hopo]

Signal Pest just doesn't seem worth the 1 to me. If I'd spend the 1, it'd be on a worker, maybe a certarch. But the memnites serve as great 1/1s for now.

Luckily, it does seem good for others. After all, it is a 1-mana lord with evasion. Memnites and Ornithopters make Pest awesome and vice versa.

[Dzra]

Signal Pest is probably the best thing to happen to Affinity since they printed Mirrodin block.

I don't like Ancient Tomb though. It feels clunky. Half the time, if it had been an artifact land, I would have gotten the same effect or better. (Mox Opal, Frogmite, Thoughtcast, etc)

[Heresy]

Etched Champion is good but slow, formidable topdeck vs. anything tribal, etc. Galvanic Blast is the BOMB (so is Darkblast), I don't understand why people forget about it. Steel Overseer is a permanent Signal Pest, which I think doesn't do enough for this build :

MD:
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Great Furnace
4 Vault of Whispers

4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Frogmite
4 Ornithopter
4 Myr Enforcer
3 Memnite
2 Steel Overseer

4 Thoughtcast
4 Galvanic Blast
3 Cranial Plating
3 Springleaf Drum
2 Mox Opal

SB:
4 Mindbreak Trap
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Darkblast

[The Big Ragu]

3 Cranial Plating

Wut?

[AlexAI]

I managed to trade for 3 Tombs and buy a 4th before my weekly tournament started, so I took them for a spin in the list I've been thinking of since seeing Tao's list:


4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Tree of Tales

4 Mox Opal
3 Springleaf Drum

4 Memnite
4 Signal Pest
2 Ornithopter
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Etched Champion
2 Master of Etherium

3 Disciple of the Vault

4 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast


//Sideboard
3 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Krosan Grip
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Pithing Needle


16 or 17 guys, enough for 4 rounds.

R1: G/w Zenith Midrange (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20128-GW-Zenith-Wasteland)

Going in kind of weary since he just top 8'ed the big 1.5 we have every month with it, also curb stomping me the tourney before that (I was affinity guy in his OP report).

Game 1 I keep a slowish 1 land tomb + opal opening that would get metalcraft on turn two, except he runs a ton of removal and keeps making me burn my tomb to try to set up for metalcraft for the next turn. After 4 tomb and a goyf hit, I finally drop a champion to stabilize somewhat, and drop two more on the next turns along with 2 enforcer and a ravager, while he has a terravore + goyf + library on the other end. The turn before I kill him I got a little greedy and went all in tapping ravager to drum something out, only keeping about enough toughness back to prevent him from trampling my last 2 life in without needing ravager, but he GSZ'ed for a pridemage to blow up my enforcer so I had a thopter and 1 champion as my only blockers against his incoming goyf + 8/8 vore. He just swings with the vore though, so I don't have to bend over backwards to block it without dying and swinging back for the win. After the game we both wonder if goyf swinging would have won it for him.

Game 2 I had champ + double plate. He pridemages one but I still get there quickly without him finding one of his 3 null rods.

1-0 (2-0)

R2: U/B ANT

Game 1 I have lethal on the board turn 4 while he cantrips a bunch, his turn he goes, cantrip, cantrip, petal, cabal ritual threshed x2, infernal for infernal, infernal for tendrils, tendrils for 8 storm. I'm confused for a second until I remember I tombed twice. Crap.

Game 2 I go turn 1 tomb, opal, thorn. Turn two I make some stupid mistake not remembering the thorn I played so I thought mox couldn't tap for mana if I dropped 1 more artifact. I swing for 16 turn 4 or 5, getting him to one, and he doesn't find the bounce I think he needed.

Game 3 I get turn two master, he tries turn 3 to go off unprotected, I mindbreak trap his tutor.

2-0 (4-1)

R3: G/B/W Junk/Rock thingy

Game 1 I don't remember this game much, but judging from my life total notes I think I get a plated guy/master to hit once, he kills said guy, his goyf chomps my life a bit, then I found another plating/master and connected.

Game 2 I get double disciple, blanking his deed and winning from there. I draw R4 with the other 9 pointer.

3-0-1 (6-1)

T8: Mono Black Control
Game 1 I get plating up + equipped turn two, he scoops after seeing his next draw.

Game 2 I keep a slow hand and die to waste turn 1, disk later on and stalker to clean me up.

Game 3 I get needle on disk, then double plating + champ one turn before he can flashback his chainer's edict on me.

4-0-1 (8-2)

T4 splits.


This list is pretty nice. Except for an awkward hand or two that is made very awkward by a wasteland, I didn't have many hands where I didn't represent a huge threat by turn 3. Tomb was great, I don't think I lost any games where an artifact land would have been better, and having another way to get 2 mana turn 1 or 3 turn 2 was always nice.

The numbers felt about right. The only slots I'm debating over until I can play more with it is the 4th pest/enforcer, and maybe cutting green from the list. My manabase is so greedy, but I don't know if 2 Citadels would fix that much anyway. Might just have to accept I'll lose to a waste once in a while. Pretty happy with this list.

Affinity hasn't been bad for me. I've went 3-1-1, 2-2-1, 0-3, 4-0-1 since I picked it up, top 8ing 3 times and top 4ing twice at our weeklies. I would say it's somewhat competitive, and pretty fun to boot. Now as I say this watch me flame out the next few times I play it, heh.

[j-flo]

For those of you who play extra colored lands, which one do you think is better for the deck, city of brass or glimmervoid? Is the damage from city of brass ever a factor? I like glimmervoid a lot, but I'm afraid an artifact sweeper might leave me with nothing. But it seems like even if we get hit with some kind of artifact sweeper and we still have a city left in play, we would probably lose the game anyways right? I'm leaning towards using glimmervoid, but what is everyone elses thoughts?

[Heresy]

Wut?

Right now, I'm playing -1 Darksteel Citadel +1 Cranial Platind and the 2 Steel overseer for 2 Master of Etherium.

[Pltnmngl]

Wut?

While I understand, I wouldn't be too surprised. There's been a trend of successful decks cutting the plating down to 3.

[Heresy]

While I understand, I wouldn't be too surprised. There's been a trend of successful decks cutting the plating down to 3.

Drawing multiples is win more. This is why I took a Cranial Plating for another Master of Etherium, an actual threat.

[Greenpoe]

Drawing multiples is win more. This is why I took a Cranial Plating for another Master of Etherium, an actual threat.

I'd rather have two than none, wouldn't you? One gets countered/Pridemage'd/Gripped/Explosive'd/etc., and you've got a spare. 4x Master of Etherium + 4x Cranial Plating should take priority over Disciple, and maybe over Ravager, too, because having both Disciple and Ravager out is extremely difficult. Some people side in Engineered Plague to ruin the Ravager/Disciple combo.

[Heresy]

They tend to destroy the would be plated most of the time so Cranial sticks around. Master of Etherium is good mid-game when theres 4 lands + stuff in play. Never, never, never cut disciple nor ravager. This is a broken interaction and you want to play this because other decks can do broken shit too. If they side Engineered Plague against Raffinity they're bad players.

EDIT: List is -1 Darksteel Citadel, -2 Steel Overseer for +3 Master of Etherium

[AggroSteve]

actually, i think if you will have 3 or 4 cranial platings strongly depends on your build, IMO since the inclusion of Signal Pest (which i really love) i feel less need of plating simply because i am able to steamroll over my opponent even with multiple frogmite

i as well think master of etherium still deserves some slots in the deck, he is a huge threat + lord-ability and most of the time comes down on turn 2 or if late on turn 3.
and i do not even want to discuss the matter of ravager + disciple, because this combo is plain-simple sick and awesome, i would never want to run less than 4 of each.... it may be true that ravager himself lost a bit of power after M10 rules but the combo itself is still as powerfull as ever, this combo is even the reason people played atog times ago and now play thopter foundry... but for my list i prefer Master of etherium over foundry

[hwtcharger07]

i have also been testing affinty alot and have come to the conclusion that ancient tomb is the way to go as it enables some sick first and 2nd turn plays, here is my list
4 ancient tomb
4 seat of the synod
4 vault of whispers
2 glimmervoid
4 mox opal
3 springleaf drum
4 ornithopter
2 memnite
4 signal pest
4 disciple of the vault
4 steel overseer
4 arcbound ravager
3 master of etherium
3 etched champion
3 thopter foundry
4 cranial plating
4 thoughtcast

sb
4 pithing needle
4 thorn of amethyst
2 tormod's crypt
2 nihl spellbomb
3 mindbreak trap

i think this deck is pretty soli plus thopter foundry is filthy with all of the lord effects. this deck has 11 evaision guys with ornithopter, signal pest, and etched champion who can all carry plating. turn 1 overseer is busted with all of the cheap guys and thopter tokens. the sideboard has the traps and the thorns for the ant and hightide matchups which are pretty rough also you have the standard graveyard hate against dredge and reanimaor. the needles are for any annoying cards that may cause problems also most importantly against all the popular junk decks it allows you to turn off their pernicious deeds.

this deck is stupid fast and agressive game one even for an affinty deck, also wih all the lords platings evaision creatures and foundrys your late game is much better than any other affinity build.

[Heresy]

actually, i think if you will have 3 or 4 cranial platings strongly depends on your build, IMO since the inclusion of Signal Pest (which i really love) i feel less need of plating simply because i am able to steamroll over my opponent even with multiple frogmite

I'm gonna do some testings like -4 Myr Enforcer + 4 Signal Pest, maybe it's the right call... With this configuration you have a lot of early pressure + mid-game bombs, to which Enforcer is inferior.

EDIT: -1 Darksteel Citadel, +1 Memnite

[AggroSteve]

to me myr enforcer was a bit dissapointing lately, simply because he really rarely comes down turn 1, usually turn 2, but on turn 2 we either want a plating and equip it, otherwise i love playing a etched champion or master of etherium on turn 2, they are both awesome,...

champion is more defensive and master is an offensive bomb....

also, it happened to me that due to a opposing wasteland destroying just a single land of mine and opponent swording a tiny creature of mine as well sometime i had hard time playing the enforcer, and for this he simply has to little impact on the field, so i think for now i will cut him down to 2 and in his place and the place of 1 ornithopter i might add thopter foundry as addictional sac-outlet for disciple (plus the flying thopters are awesome with signal pest allready on the field, or a master of etherium)

[I am the brainwasher]

With the risk getting flamed I introduce my current Affinity list.
At first I need to say that this isnt the typical Aggro-I-bash-your-face-b**tch version. I play this deck here and then since it was a T2 deck and I often disliked the fact that if I dont go bonkers the chance of winning were down to extremely topdecking or just beeing lucky in different ways. Sure, the greater card pool for Affinity since the new (and not finished) block (so curious:wink:) gave us a lot of opportunities to raise the percentage of having damn good starts and relativeley stronger lategames, but the typical versions of Affinity are a bit too much straight forward in a negative sense IMO.
The deck which I build plays out very different and I would call it more an Aggro-Combo deck than Aggro Archetype.
So here it is:


3 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Ancient Den
1 Glimmervoid
1 Blinkmoth Nexus

4 Mox Opal
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Cranial Plating
1 Sword of the Meek
3 Thopter Foundry
4 Thoughtcast

2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
4 Signal Pest
2 Arcbound Ravager
4 Etched Champion
3 Stoneforge Mystic

Sb:
4 Ethersworn Cannonist
4 Pithing Needle
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Mindbreak Trap


:eek:-effect, indeed!
The deck can drive a lot of different plans, depending on the opposing deck and is very less vulnerable to mass removal than other lists due to the Thopter/Sword soft-combo, Stoneforge Mystic and Tezz 2.0, which is just insane and really the Jace of Affinity decks IMO. 1 round unanswered and you should win the game normally. Also, with 3 md Darksteel Citadel there isnt always the need to ultimate him and you can use him very flexible.
Often you just drive the Aggro plan and switch outta nowhere into stalling down with creeps/Champion to ensure Thopter Foundry/Sword or Tezz or collecting Platings (which is really easy here) for Etched Champion to swing for lethal on a single turn.
Arcbound Ravager isnt that great but 2 seems right to me because he can eat Tokens and blanks removal and adding counters on an Etched Champion is huge.
I disliked Engineered Plaque, so I play Goblin Sharpshooter instead to have more outs to Moat/Peacekeeper and he does pretty much the same in a lot of MU or even an better job, not talking about the Machine-gunning with Basilisk Collar... .
I can just recommend to playtest and understand the list before judging it unworthy. I hope it inspires some of you,
Greetings

[xMethodicalx]

I have been playing my version of Affinity for a while and just decided to look at some forums on what other peoples builds and strategies were. This made me alter my deck drastically, and decided that including aspects of everyones could make a strong deck. I have not read all 33 pages and I am sorry if perchance this has the same exact decklist as you.

Mana:
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Ancient Den
4 Springleaf Drum
2 Mox Opal

Creatures:
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest
4 Frogmite
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Master of Etherium
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Steel Overseer


Spells:
4 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast

Only few comments I have: I have not play tested, and yes i feel like it could be a little slow.
No etched champion because I feel like he is slow as well, if i was to play him, I would reduce overseers and canonist for room.
Tezzeret I nearly included, I feel like he is really strong, and I just opened him in my booster a few hours ago :D
I know I do not have a sideboard. That is not an issue at this point in time, perfecting the main deck is.

Thanks for looking!

[raudo]

Hi! I plan to build almost similar deck.

Some changes for me:

4 Ethersworn Canonist -> 4 Myr Enforcer

No Ancient tomb. 3-4x Mox Opal, 2x Etched Champion

Not sure 4x Thoughtcast is enough for draw and this deck empties hand very quick. Maybe cursed scroll or something.. hmm..

[RexFTW]

This is the optimal way to play Affinity. An almost full suite of 14 free dudes, 2 big mana finishers (etched champion) and an average mana cost below 1 if you count frogmites and enforcers as 0.

Note the lack of Tezzeret, steel overseer and master of etherium because they are just too slow.

Affinity
A Legacy Magic deck, by Lukas Parson
3rd place at a StarCityGames.com Legacy Open tournament in Memphis, Tennessee, United States on 2011-03-13
As reported at http://www.starcitygames.com/open_series

Maindeck:

Artifacts
4 Cranial Plating
3 Springleaf Drum

Artifact Creatures
4 Arcbound Ravager
2 Etched Champion
4 Frogmite
4 Memnite
4 Myr Enforcer
2 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest

Artifact Lands
1 Darksteel Citadel

Creatures
4 Disciple of the Vault

Instants
4 Galvanic Blast

Legendary Artifacts
3 Mox Opal

Sorceries
4 Thoughtcast

Artifact Lands
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers

Lands
1 Blinkmoth Nexus

Sideboard:
3 Pithing Needle
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Engineered Plague
3 Thoughtseize

[I am the brainwasher]

I tried out Parson's list right after it appeared in the TOP8 list from SCG's and I disliked the 4 Myr Enforcers and the very, very few lands (mana sources in general) in it.
I had a bad time playing it, as well real life as on MWS (yes, I play MWS:eek:). I understand the point that if you get to 2 lands you normally are satisfied with it but I found myself in the situation where I desperatly needed mana and couldnt accelerate that much, which cost me games. Sure, there must be a reason why he made 3rd place in the SCG's event, but I dont see the deck as THE Affinity list you should play. To make competent statements I wanted to revisit the plays of the deck but in the featured videos it isnt included at all...sad:frown:.
Still very happy with my list that I posted and I can just recommend it. The only thing I really want sometimes is Disciple of the Vault but it isnt that necessary IMO and shines just in a few MU's if you ask me.
I really think that the new edition offers a whole lot of new things and I cant w8; till then I'll play my rogue list and hope it stays rogue.

[The Big Ragu]

That's a very fast, and disciplined deck list. Nothing really flashy or fancy, just pure speed. I have to question the inclusions of Relic of Progenitus (I believe Tormod's Crypt to be a better card) and Engineered Plague. Wouldn't Perish be so much better? Or at least he could go with a 2 - 1 split. With all the lords running around, Engineered Plague doesn't seem to have as much kick to it as it once did.

My list is almost the exact opposite, stylistically. I run 4 - 5 spells with CMC of 3 and two Tezzerets. So I wouldn't play my hand out as quick, but I develop my position a bit stronger in the (undesired) late game.

Right now my problem is trying to decide upon a mana base. I was going with a land count consisting of:

4x Vault of Whispers
4X Ancient Den
4X Seat
2x Darksteel Citadel
2x Glimmervoid
3x Springleaf Drum
3x Mox

which seems to be minutely more than average. But even with that I was running into mana/color problems more often that I thought I should be. As a result I'm considering replacing an Overseer with either a third Citadel or Glimmervoid, but doing so feels as though I'm over-saturating my deck with mana.

Is it normal for this deck to run into mana/color screw more often than with other decks?

[Heresy]

I believe there's 2 approach right now : Signal Pest and Master of Etherium builds. The first is focused on the early turns, dropping lots of free/evasive stuffs + multiple Signal Pest. This is the fastest version but is forced to overextend all day long. The latter is about casting 1-2 various bombs that seal the deal on their own in a couple of swings. With my testings, I was more impressed with the slower but more resilient build, such as :

MD:

4 Seat of the Synod
4 Great Furnace
4 Vault of Whispers
2 Darksteel Citadel

4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Frogmite
4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
4 Master of Etherium
3 Etched Champion

4 Springleaf Drum
4 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast
4 Galvanic Blast
3 Mox Opal

EDIT : I'm also testing the other approach with those changes : -1 Master of Etherium, -1 Etched Champion, -1 Springleaf Drum, -1 Darksteel Citadel for 4 Signal Pest, maybe fit 4 Myr Enforcer for more free stuff... but we know Master is always better, still testing.

[1maarten1]

Blake McCracken just made top 8 at the SCG tournament playing an affinity build, no ravager/disciple, with signal pest, 4 tezzeret, MoE. Really interesting! Lets see how he does in the Top 8!

[the Thin White Duke]

I've come to the realization that there is life after Ravager also. I've been fiddling around with thopter foundry and have come to like 1/1 creatures more than +1/+1 counters with the addition of Signal Pest. I'm trying to justify Etched Champion (cause he can be really awesome) and I may go to a 1 of, but is it worth it? Ditch the lone Champion for another Foundry? (I'm running 2 right now). Can't post decklist now, too drunk...

[lordofthepit]

Blake McCracken just made top 8 at the SCG tournament playing an affinity build, no ravager/disciple, with signal pest, 4 tezzeret, MoE. Really interesting! Lets see how he does in the Top 8!

He won.

[AggroSteve]

does someone have the list, i would love to take a look and maybe give it a try

[Minkkiq]

does someone have the list, i would love to take a look and maybe give it a try

Here you go:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=37278

I played in a 30-man tournament last Saturday ending up 3rd with 4-1 record. Here's a list and a very brief walkthrough of the tournament and my choices:


Affjizz

4x Darksteel Citadel
4x Vault of Whispers
4x Seat of the Synod
2x Glimmervoid
1x Blinkmoth Nexus
1x Ancient Den

4x Memnite
2x Ornithopter
4x Signal Pest
4x Disciple of the Vault
4x Arcbound Ravager
4x Etched Champion
3x Myr Enforcer

3x Mox Opal
3x Springleaf Drum
3x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4x Thoughtcast
4x Cranial Plating
2x Thopter Foundry

sideboard:
4x Pithing Needle
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Engineered Plague
2x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Echoing Truth

Mainboard there's pretty much nothing spectacular. I don't know what is with the trend of cutting Ravagers as I've rarely glimpsed what has been played in major tournaments, but if someone would kindly explain, I'd be intrigued. Sideboard Needles are obvious, same with Nihil and probably Truths. Good against this and that. Cabals and Plagues were a metachoice. I anticipated decks with Null Rods and Fishtails, but I got lucky and there were almost none of 'em. Anyway, Pests were uninteresting IMHO, I ended up siding them out every game. They do have decent synergy with Tezz and Plating but still, underwhelming. I'm keeping them though as there really aren't anything to rival them in 1cc spot.

1st Match Opalescense deck

This is pretty much for fun, so I have nearly no trouble as my threats are too many and too fast. First game Champion-Plating beat, second game he manages to lock my guys with Propaganda and Prison, but I get Tezz after scouting his hand for counters with Cabal and finish him with Tezz ulti as he has no answers.

1-0 (2-0)

2nd Match LED Dredge

I start with 2 lands, random and 3 Ravagers. As he has a bit slow start, I manage to remove his Bridges with Ravagers with no problems. Pests -> Nihils and Truths. Second game he dredges me down, cabaling my truth and removing my threats. Third game he mulligans as do I keeping a hand with Foundry, land, Thopter and Ravager. He breakthroughs, but draws blanks (2 LED discarded for instance). I get my Foundry online and start slowly building advantageous position. After some unlucky dredging I remove his Bridges thinning his chances considerably and as he is unable to get green mana for Grudges I end up victor.

2-0 (4-1)

3rd Match *Amnesia*

My mind is blank here, but I think I won straight.

3-0 (6-1)

4th Match UW Caw

This one was very interesting. At first I thought this was a simple UW, but as no Seers, Mothers or WW:s appear I'm kinda puzzled. Doing decently I keep aggroing as he counters my Platings and Tezzies. After that Stoneforge appears, getting the feared Jitte and then the real surprise unveils as he Vials in Squadron Hawk. With my limited flyers I get pretty anxious. I keep attacking because I feel that is the best thing to do. Alas, he has a good variety of combat tricks up his sleeve and ends up killing most of my big guys taking only a few points of dmg. With no answers to his Jitte we continue to the next. I side in Cabals and Needles against his Jitte, but I draw none of 'em and my good hand with Foundry (countered) does not enough dmg as he gets his Hawks and Jitte online.

3-1 (6-3)

5th Match LEDless dredge

This should be a cakewalk, as his dredge is so much slower. Nothing spectacular happens as he doesn't get to combo his tokens in fast enough due to my sac outlets. Second game he fails to find anything relevant via Breakthrough and dredge, so I beat him with my first turn Plating+thopter down pretty fast.

Final Record: 4-1 (8-3)

UW Caw wins the whole thing grabbing full set of Flooded Strands, my third match opponent ends up second with 4 Deltas and I end up third earning myself a second full set of Wooded Foothills. Nothing else to say, so I end this here. Do comment if you please.

[AggroSteve]

intresting report... i was wondering how you felt about tezzeret, thopter foundry, and specially with no frogmites (would be the first card i would miss in any affinity deck)

[Justin]

Notice that the Affinity decks that have top 8ed at SCGs this year have featured either Ravager/Disciple with no Tezz or Tezz with no Ravager/Disciple. I think that these are the two archetypes of Affinity: Ravager Affinity and Tezzeret Affinity. The two cards do not have very good synergy with one another, so you should not be playing both. Ravager's sac ability reduces the number of artifacts that you have on the board and makes it harder to hit the 2UB you need to cast Tezz. Without Tezz, you don't feel bad about gobbling up extra lands, drums, etc. with your Ravager. With Tezz, you want to leave enough mana to cast him with you draw him, so you have to hold back with your Ravager. A lesser argument is that Ravager also weakens Tezz's ultimate (although you are probably winning if you get to Tezz's ultimate regardless).

The Ravager Affinity builds tend to be faster. They avoid high casting cost spells such as Tezz and MoE and they typically splash red for Galvanic Blast. Tezzeret Affinity runs 1-2 extra mana sources and some of the bigger spells.

[Heresy]

I think your analysis on Tezz vs. Ravager is on point but there's a lot builds that runs Master of Etherium without Tezz. About MoE : he's concidered slow but depending on the build he swings turn 3 as a 6/6 (or more) most of time.

[Minkkiq]

intresting report... i was wondering how you felt about tezzeret, thopter foundry, and specially with no frogmites (would be the first card i would miss in any affinity deck)

I remember casting Tezz four-five times. Twice it was countered, once it won me the game (first match, second game), against UW Caw I used him to buff my Mox Opal into a guy and go for full attack ending up facerolled and lastly I probably had him in my hand with enough mana to cast, but I think I didn't bother casting him as I already won that turn.
Thopter Foundry is one of my fav cards. It has the potential to carry me to victory in case of bad draws or it just ensures me solid board advantage. I replaced Frogs with Pests, I recall that one of my friends told that some top8 list had done so, so I wanted to test them also. I haven't much thought of them since, my hands, draws and plays have been working pretty nicely after all. I also don't know what to cut for them. Running 2 or 3 Frogs feel a bit futile for me, as years ago the rule of thumb was that Frogs are automatically 4-off, any less was considered simply dumb. I don't know how to put it as a good argument, so I'll just say this: " Less than 4 frogs? Nah, it's all or nothing."

Justin:

Ty for that piece of info, though I slightly disagree a bit about this:" The two cards do not have very good synergy with one another, so you should not be playing both."
They do have quite a bit antisynergy between them, but IMO not enough for one to automatically exclude the other. They both can win games almost on their own and they both do similar things: deliver gas and buff guys. I think it more likely depends on how one plays with Ravager. I use him only when necessary, I rarely go for the everything or nothing -plan, sacrificing everything for the one dude getting through even if the chances of winning through that move would be extremely good. There's a few more points I had, but I failed to translate it properly in English so that it wouldn't sound like gibberish and my mind is wandering in other dimensions atm ^^

In any case, I've rarely had any problems on casting Tezz. In a deck full of threats and potential threats, I feel Tezz is just that one more greatly required horsepower that makes the deck race out or at least catch up others and should always be included. Although, I consider myself as an average player that plays Legacy once or twice in a month with nearly no playtesting, so I feel I kinda lack.. how to put this... credibility in the evidence of nearly non-existent data, in this matter. So if someone has more reliable data on how these two work out together, I'd be happy to know.

[I am the brainwasher]

I think that if Affintiy continues to make Top8's, Energy Flux and or Null Rod will have a comeback for sure. I mean the deck does so many unfair stuff, especially in the early turns that you are nearly forced to have very effective sb Slots for it (like Dredge). If that is the case, it would be time to think about playing Spell Pierce/REB or better Krosan Grip to avoid a blowout. Normally you are able due to acceleration via MOX and Drum to cast it fast enough even on the draw IMO. Thoughtseize can Fix this also and is more flexible at picking cards that bother the deck and I really dunno what is the way to go here... .
Thoughts?

[MoonDark]

I think that if the field starts packing null rods, etc... tezz builds will be more resilient

[Justin]

Justin:

Ty for that piece of info, though I slightly disagree a bit about this:" The two cards do not have very good synergy with one another, so you should not be playing both."
They do have quite a bit antisynergy between them, but IMO not enough for one to automatically exclude the other. They both can win games almost on their own and they both do similar things: deliver gas and buff guys. I think it more likely depends on how one plays with Ravager. I use him only when necessary, I rarely go for the everything or nothing -plan, sacrificing everything for the one dude getting through even if the chances of winning through that move would be extremely good. There's a few more points I had, but I failed to translate it properly in English so that it wouldn't sound like gibberish and my mind is wandering in other dimensions atm ^^

In any case, I've rarely had any problems on casting Tezz. In a deck full of threats and potential threats, I feel Tezz is just that one more greatly required horsepower that makes the deck race out or at least catch up others and should always be included. Although, I consider myself as an average player that plays Legacy once or twice in a month with nearly no playtesting, so I feel I kinda lack.. how to put this... credibility in the evidence of nearly non-existent data, in this matter. So if someone has more reliable data on how these two work out together, I'd be happy to know.

You make a good point. Obviously, Ravager and Tezz are both good cards and your success in your most recent tourney shows that you can win while playing both cards. Nevertheless, I would personally prefer to play a Tezz build without Ravager. There are some compelling reasons to cut Ravager (or at least test without him).

1) Cutting Ravager also means cutting Disciple and this frees up eight slots. Those slots can fairly easily be filled with all the quality new cards that we've gotten over the last year.

2) Cutting Disciple allows us to up our artifact count.

3) Ravager, once the MVP of the deck, has lost a lot of potency with the M10 rules changes (no more damage on the stack) and the fact that nobody plays Arcbound Worker anymore. Ravager is still good, but is no longer an auto-include.

4) As I mentioned earlier, the anti-synergy with Tezz

5) As mentioned by MoonDark, Ravager is shut off my Null Rod, but Tezz is not.

Here are a couple things that would compel me to play Ravager again. 1) If the modular mechanic comes back in the third Mirrodin set and gives us some playable guys to play with him. 2) If the new set gives us a playable artifact that can sac artifacts for free. Atog really doesn't cut it anymore. I always thought that a second artifact creature (or artifact) to combo with Disciple would make Ravager Affinity strong again. Thopter Foundry fills this role to some extent, although you have to pay 1 mana to sacrifice, so you don't get the insta-win feeling with Disciple that you get with Ravager.

[supachai]

I've been testing out the post MBS Affinity and I like it a lot. Etched Champion is really a house vs anything aggro. The list I've settled on it a bit different from most I've seen here. I've cut both enforcers and frogmites in favor of Master and Champion. Vanilla 2/2 and 4/4 just don't do enough, even if they are free or 1-2 mana. I haven't missed them yet. To compensate, I'm running 17 lands, and 3 each of Mox Opal and Drum. As a result, I'm almost never mana screwed and can often power out Master or Champion turn 2. Another card I've loved using is Thopter Foundry. It's an additional sac outlet that makes use of mana flood and unlike ravager it doesn't eat away our artifact count for plating and Master. Late game it's one of the best cards you can draw against both control and aggro. My testing has proved favorable matchups against Zoo, Bant, and Goblins (as these are decks I have). Merfolk is a bit harder and Death and Taxes is difficult if they run Revokers main. Anyhow, here's my list:

3 Ornithopter
3 Memnite
3 Mox Opal

4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Signal Pest
3 Springleaf Drum

4 Arcbound Ravage
4 Cranial Plating
3 Thopter Foundry

4 Etched Champion
4 Master of Etherium

4 Thoughtcast

4 Seat of the Synod
2 Ancient Den
2 Great Furnace
4 Vault of Whispers
3 Darksteel Citadel
2 Glimmervoid

[MoonDark]

I've been testing the 4x Tezz Build that won the recent tourney.

The build is a house, but I can't really beat High Tide combo with it. The only two decks that have defeated me today in MTGO where High Tide combo decks...

Tezz is too slow to beat it, so for SB I went something like -4 Tezz -2 Enforcers +3 Thoughtseize +3 Canonist, still no luck.

I really feel that mainboard disruption like Thoughtseize instead of Tezz could help this match, ( maybe pack 4x in SB ? )

Has anyone else tested this match ?

[Crysthorn]

I think that if Affintiy continues to make Top8's, Energy Flux and or Null Rod will have a comeback for sure.
Yeah, that's a given - especially Null Rod, because it's easier to cast and harder to fight against.


it would be time to think about playing Spell Pierce/REB or better Krosan Grip to avoid a blowout.
Krosan Grip is slow and doesn't do much against resolved Null Rod (it doesn't really help against resolved Energy Flux either) unless you have it in your hand already and can float mana in response. REB does nothing against Null Rod, our most feared enemy. Spell Pierce might work but considering that notable anti-Affinity cards are either artifacts (Null Rod) or enchantments (Energy Flux; also Aura of Silence, which works as anti-Enchantress hate at the same time) and Spell Pierce doesn't work against Kataki anyway, it could be better to just run postboard Annuls instead, along with Thoughtseizes.

[The Big Ragu]

I've been testing out the post MBS Affinity and I like it a lot. Etched Champion is really a house vs anything aggro. The list I've settled on it a bit different from most I've seen here. I've cut both enforcers and frogmites in favor of Master and Champion. Vanilla 2/2 and 4/4 just don't do enough, even if they are free or 1-2 mana. I haven't missed them yet. To compensate, I'm running 17 lands, and 3 each of Mox Opal and Drum. As a result, I'm almost never mana screwed and can often power out Master or Champion turn 2. Another card I've loved using is Thopter Foundry. It's an additional sac outlet that makes use of mana flood and unlike ravager it doesn't eat away our artifact count for plating and Master. Late game it's one of the best cards you can draw against both control and aggro. My testing has proved favorable matchups against Zoo, Bant, and Goblins (as these are decks I have). Merfolk is a bit harder and Death and Taxes is difficult if they run Revokers main. Anyhow, here's my list:

3 Ornithopter
3 Memnite
3 Mox Opal

4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Signal Pest
3 Springleaf Drum

4 Arcbound Ravage
4 Cranial Plating
3 Thopter Foundry

4 Etched Champion
4 Master of Etherium

4 Thoughtcast

4 Seat of the Synod
2 Ancient Den
2 Great Furnace
4 Vault of Whispers
3 Darksteel Citadel
2 Glimmervoid


I question how good the synergy between Ravager and Thopter Foundry is.

[supachai]

It's not so much synergy with each other, but that they are both sac outlets. They both have synergy with Disciple and are both ways to get rid of extra lands. They also serve slightly different purposes. Ravager is certainly a lot more aggressive and is usually only used to kill with Disciple or make a huge Champion. Thopter Foundry is a more late game card when your threats are low or need to play control/survive and (probably) have a huge amount of random mana artifacts/lands sitting around. It's also quite awesome with Master of Etherium; army of flying 2/2's is nothing to scoff at.Additionally, thopter tokens can still be sacced again to Ravager. The only thing I would warn about when playing Foundry is watch out for Engineered Explosives.

I feel like Ravager is more and more becoming a tool, rather than a main beater in the deck. It saves us from removal, gets rid of excess lands, and gives us an almost instant win with Disciple or Champion. When it comes to beaters, evasive creatures (including Champion) and monstrous Master are much better. Same reason why I've cut Frogmites and Enforcers.

[Pltnmngl]

I've got to admit that I doubted Tezz's potential in this deck. I'm sort of glad to be proven wrong since it is a really powerful card regardless. Blake's list sure is pretty. Expensive, but pretty.

Also, I like how despite the evolution of this deck, 12 non-artifact cards is still the correct number.

[The Big Ragu]

Also, I like how despite the evolution of this deck, 12 non-artifact cards is still the correct number.

I'd say anywhere from 44 - 48 artifacts in a deck is perfectly fine.

[xMethodicalx]

Is glimpse affinity a different topic? or do people just not play it as much as normal affinity?

[Crysthorn]

Is glimpse affinity a different topic? or do people just not play it as much as normal affinity?
Judging from this year's SCG Opens, there seem to be 3 main ways to build Affinity nowadays:
1) Glimpse Affinity (UBGw) - probably the most explosive, but highly dependant on Glimpse of Nature.
2) Classic Affinity (UBRw, sometimes just UBw) - quite similar and very explosive as well, but usually running Galvanic Blasts instead of Glimpses.
3) Tezzeret Affinity (UBw) - running new Tezzerets instead of Ravagers and Disciples, thus sacrificing some speed for a better lategame.

[The Big Ragu]

3) Tezzeret Affinity (UB) - running new Tezzerets instead of Ravagers and Disciples, thus sacrificing some speed for a better lategame.

I don't see any advantages to running a UB list over a WUB list. Ethersworn Canonist is an incredible force against combo decks, and there's so many mana fixers available in the forms of Mox Opal, Glimmervoid, and Springleaf Drum.

[Crysthorn]

I don't see any advantages to running a UB list over a WUB list. Ethersworn Canonist is an incredible force against combo decks, and there's so many mana fixers available in the forms of Mox Opal, Glimmervoid, and Springleaf Drum.
Well, almost every Affinity build has some number of Canonists in the sideboard but since nobody seems to run any white spells main (aside from occasional Thopter Foundry, which is usually treated as UB spell) or any Ancient Dens, I decided to cut this splash from deck descriptions as fairly obvious. But yeah, if you want to be precise, these builds should be UBGw, UBRw/UBw and UBw respectively.

[MoonDark]

It's not trivial to run white in Tezz Affinity, at least not as a main color.

Let's take Blake McCracken's list (http://www.deckcheck.de/deck.php?id=22257) as a reference, you can't cut the indestructible lands!, they work wonders with tezz 5/5 ability, and also are resilient against wasteland ( which a lot of decks are running main )

I'm playing the exact same list but cut all the diabolic edicts in the SB and did +1 Canonist +1 Thoughtseize +1 Relic of Progenitus, that has been running nicely for me, because with Tezz Affinity, it's VERY HARD to beat combo.

Since it doesn't carry any kind of disruption mainboard, G1 will be very very hard, for example, against High Tide Spiral combo, they can combo out on Turn 3 with a good hand, and quite often in Turn 4. To beat that you'll need to have a great hand, and Tezz is just too slow in this case.

In that match I do +4 Canonist +4 Thoughtseize to bring the disruption count up, but it's still quite hard... overall combo is not favorable. I feel that with galvanic blast I would be able to improve the match, and I'm thinking about running that instead of canonist in the SB. Canonist can be bounced etc, and I think that 4 more damage can be critical to be able to go "all in" and obtain a more consistent ~T4 Kill.

What do you guys think ?

[I am the brainwasher]

I understandyour thought. Galvanic Blast would make Ad Nauseum a lot less exciting and could surprise an unsafe player. The pros of Cannonist is that he cant be duressed away and is better in other MU'S IMO. I play atm a split of 3 Cannonist and 2 Mindbreak Trap in my build and it works out pretty good. Mindbreak Trap lets you split your hate and can win games outta nowhere against Time Spiral. Drawing into them with the opposing Time Spiral can be damn tough for them and it won me games to have that out. Galvanic Blast is kinda useless in every other MU, because you normally want to lay another robot than shooting down some random dudes (Goofy and KotR are normally Blast proof against Affinity).

[Crysthorn]

I'm playing the exact same list but cut all the diabolic edicts in the SB
And what's your plan against all these slower combo decks - how are you going to beat resolved Emrakul or Progenitus?


Galvanic Blast is kinda useless in every other MU, because you normally want to lay another robot than shooting down some random dudes (Goofy and KotR are normally Blast proof against Affinity).
Early Goyf/KotR isn't always blast proof and in some matchups there's also a pesky Lavamancer to shoot. Besides, Galvanic Blast might as well serve as extra reach - 4 damage to the face is nothing to scoff at.

[MoonDark]

And what's your plan against all these slower combo decks - how are you going to beat resolved Emrakul or Progenitus?


Early Goyf/KotR isn't always blast proof and in some matchups there's also a pesky Lavamancer to shoot. Besides, Galvanic Blast might as well serve as extra reach - 4 damage to the face is nothing to scoff at.

Against slow combo, the plan is to race. Galvanic blast does help that matter, I'm even thinking about Shrapnel Blast, which gives you that extra 1 dmg that can be enough to kill that goyf with a resolved natural order... ( assuming no hierarch ), and now that I think about it, the sacrificed artifact should give the goyf +1/+1, so maybe the extra damage is not actually interesting in that particular case, but it's still good for racing the opponent.

Actually, I'm currently playing in MTGO and raced resolved progenitus with ornithopter + cranial plating.

Resolved emrakul == loose, so my plan in that match is thoughtseize to remove whatever is needed.

I will test Mindbreak Trap

[nwong]

After leaving it on the backburner for a while, I came back to it and came up with this list.


4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Glimmervoid
3 Great Furnace

3 Mox Opal
3 Springleaf Drum

4 Memnite
3 Master of Etherium
4 Steel Overseer
3 Etched Champion
4 Signal Pest
4 Ornithopter
4 Thoughtcast
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Cranial Plating
3 Shrapnel Blast


Sideboard

4 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Tormod's Crypt
4 Engineered Plague
4 Chalice of the Void


So far it goldfishes turn 3-4, which isn't that much slower than the all out builds that run Frogmite and Myr Enforcer with Galvanic Blast. Obviously I would love to fit Galvanic Blast in here, but there is no space, and Shrapnel Blast gets rid of extra Mox Opals.

Ancient Tombs are here to accelerate out the significant number of 2 drops, and enables Tezz coming down turn 2-3.

Let me know what you think.

[Greenpoe]

4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Glimmervoid
3 Great Furnace

3 Mox Opal
3 Springleaf Drum

4 Memnite
3 Master of Etherium
4 Steel Overseer
3 Etched Champion
4 Signal Pest
4 Ornithopter
4 Thoughtcast
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Cranial Plating
3 Shrapnel Blast


Sideboard

4 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Tormod's Crypt
4 Engineered Plague
4 Chalice of the Void



I think Galvanic Blast is better than Shrapnel because: You're not even playing 4 Mox. It won't be that often that you can sacrifice a Mox to it and play another one. It's only 1 damage more than Galvanic, but costs so much more mana. But most importantly, Galvanic Blast is amazing for shooting down their first creature so your guys can keep swinging. When you blast a potential blocker, you can make up for the damage with your attack.

Also, I would cut a Glimmervoid for another either Mox Opal or Springleaf Drum. Personally, I think the risk of 4 Mox Opal is worth it, since it mana-fixes and accerelates all in one. Personally, I would cut a Champ for the fourth Master, but that's just because I'm sick of Champ being just a bear vs. Jitte, other artifact creatures and man-lands.

[The Big Ragu]

If you're going for the red splash, then I think you should tune your deck to be as fast as possible. Even when compared to decks that run a white splash, your list seems extremely mana intensive.

Galvanic Blast is infinitely superior to Shrapnel Blast. I don't even think Shrapnel Blast is even worth considering playing with anymore.

[Nurova]

Okay, So I've been running affinity for a few weeks now, starting out with a slower, more consistent deck, but finally deciding that I needed to make my deck faster. As a result I think I have streamlined Affinity into the deck list below. So far, I have 3 tournaments using it, 2 top 4's (Undefeated twice, in two different locations) and only missed a 3rd top 4 by bad pairings (went 4-1, my opponents scrubbed out...)

So here is the build:
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Great Furnace
4 Vault of Whispers
2 Darksteel Citadel
3 Mox Opal
3 Springleaf Drum

4 Ornithopter
3 Memnite
3 Frogmite
2 Signal Pest
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Myr Enforcer
2 Master of Etherium

4 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast
4 Galvanic Blast
2 Fling

[Uly Van Hammer]

Does anyone ever consider Second Sunrise, Im not sure if it's good, or if I just want it to be good.

[Draener]

God speed getting the mana base to pull that off. Also, the decks that you want to bring it in against (deed decks) are running wasteland... so even less likely. Sick with ravager, though.

[vikram]

I just wanted to point out Spawing Shell.

~Spawning Shell
3{pg}
Artifact Rare
({PG} may be paid for with either {G} or 2 life.)
1{PG}, {T}, Sacrifice a creature: Search your library for a creature with converted mana cost equal to the sacrificed creature's converted mana cost plus one and put it onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery.
Illus. Daarken #104/175

For four mana (can be paid over two turns), it converts your Myr Enforcers into Hellkite Overlords and your Frogmites into Baneslayer Angels/Horde of Notions.

It seems like it could work.

More importantly, I think maindecking Chalice of the Void is worthwhile if you go that route of cutting out 1cc guys and instead playing 0cc cards, and 2cc equipment and 3cc bombs like Spawing Shell and Master of Ephitherium.

[clumsylicious]

The problem with using Spawning Shell is, that you are going to make a nearly entirely new deck with it. It is rather too slow and doesn´t give you the evasive effects of Ravagers / Thopter Foundries due it´s sorcery-speed.
On the other side you´ll need Brainstorm to support it, due your creatures you´re supposed to "shell" are dead cards in your hand. And in this artifact-deck cutting the card advantage getting due Thoughtseize (best one in legacy!) and making it more slow with Spawning Shell is a very risky way to try to bring out viable threats like Baneslayer Angel or even a Sundering Titan. You still will lose to combo and will have hard times against control. I prefer affinity´s explosiveness over some comboish cards.

[RexFTW]

Why doesnt this deck play Gaea's Cradle?

[RexFTW]

Does anyone ever consider Second Sunrise, Im not sure if it's good, or if I just want it to be good.


it was in old fashioned atog fling builds when affinity was in standard. But there are better options now.

[clumsylicious]

I don't know if it fits into our Affinity. You want artifact lands to boost your Mox Opal, if you don´t have much :0:-drops like Memnite / Ornithopter or :1:-drops like Signal Pest / Springleaf Drum. I tried this list and was very satisfied the last weeks:

Lands:
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Vault of Whispers
1 Ancient Den
3 Darksteel Citadel
4 City of Traitors
or
4 Ancient Tomb

Artifacts:
2 Thopter Foundry
1 Sword of the Meek
4 Cranial Plating
3 Mox Opal
3 Springleaf Drum

Creatures:
3 Arcbound Ravager
4 Signal Pest
4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
4 Frogmite
3 Myr Enforcer
3 Etched Champion

Others:
4 Thoughtcast
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

Sideboard:
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Pithing Needle
3 Nature's Claim
3 Perish
3 Relic of Progenitus

I´m just trying, if Sword of the Meek makes some difference in some situations, don´t know, if it has it´s place in the future setup. If not, it will be cut down for a fourth Tezz or the fourth Champion.
I prefer Perish over Engineered Plague, cause my meta here is showing more and more Zoo... bye bye Goyfs, Hierarchs and co.

I like this setup, because it´s really explosive. I experience not much games without spitting my hand out in two turns to overrun my enemy in a few turns. 1T Champion / 2T Tezz is just going nuts...
Also tried a red-splash for Galvanic Blast and wasn't satisfied. It made the difference in just one out of eleven games (against several decks). Maybe a red-splash will be viable for me, if the new Scrapmetal Fiend ist that awesome like some people are praising him up...

The cradle:
IMO you can't play much more non-artifact-lands. I tried it out while goldfishing and experienced more hands with a T1 dead mox. On the other hand you don't want green mana (in spite of boarding in Nature's Claim / Krosan Grip), maybe if the upcoming Spawning Shell fits into the deck, you can try it out. I don't know, so just put it in, go goldfishing and tell us, if it boosts the first turns in way it's earning it's place MB.

[luckme10]

.
http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/3530/ue9rietapgen.jpg

If only other decks had the card choices that affinity takes for granted.

[I am the brainwasher]

Now thats a Swords to Plowshares!
Dont see it in the current builds but it could be integrated. The question is if the deck needs that card, normally you just outclass other creaturesbased decks.
Maybe its possible to create a some sort of Metal-Zoo with Ardent Recruit and Dispatch as Path to Exile... . Cant w8 to see the whole set:eek:!

[Pltnmngl]

Now thats a Swords to Plowshares!
Dont see it in the current builds but it could be integrated. The question is if the deck needs that card, normally you just outclass other creaturesbased decks.
Maybe its possible to create a some sort of Metal-Zoo with Ardent Recruit and Dispatch as Path to Exile... . Cant w8 to see the whole set:eek:!

I gotta agree here. We already wreck decks with creatures. Besides, we technically have answers to "must kill" threats already, especially in more widely used colors in affinity.

[The Big Ragu]

I really like it! Seems like a sideboard option, though.

[Raggedjoe]

Hello, I'm new to this forum, but definitely not new to this deck and I run the Affinity thread over at MTG Salvation. It's very interesting how in some ways the builds here and there have diverged. It appears that not everyone here loves Signal Pest? I am shocked, it is such a powerful card! Many of us have also dropped DotV entirely. Although it does give us a combo-esque finish and is epic with ravager, it is much worse than other cards if you don't have ravager. I dropped it for a PTQ and never looked back.

On the sideboard, I introduced two pieces of tech that caught on fast. Nature's Claim is a powerful anti-hate card that is useful vs all the obvious cards, but also can give us game vs. Dragon Stompy and Enchantress. Meekstone is a very interesting nitch card that I enjoy vs. Merfolk and Zoo. For reference, my list is:

4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
4 Signal Pest
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Etched Champion
2 Master of Etherium
4 Frogmite

4 Mox Opal
3 Springleaf Drum
4 Cranial Plating
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Thoughtcast

4 Seat of the Synod
3 Vault of Whispers
4 Darksteel Citadel
3 Glimmervoid
2 Ancient Tomb

3 Nature's Claim
2 Meekstone
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Engineered Plague
3 Cannonist
2 Tomard's Crypt

[lambert101]

I have been working on a new controlling type build. Have done testing against merfolk, tes, burn, dredge, and other hom ebrews. The side board is a work in progress. Just wanted to get some ideas.

4 Seat of the Synod
4 Great Furnace
4 Darksteel Citadel
3 Mox Opal
3 Springleaf Drum
4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
4 Frogmite
4 Signal Pest
4 Master of Etherium
4 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Etched Champion
2 Glimmervoid

side:
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Pierce
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Mindbreak Trap
3 Boil

[Clark Kant]

I really like this deck idea and the new set just leaked.

Porcelain Legionaire, Phyrexian Metamorph and Moltensteel Dragon are all exactly the kick in the pants this deck needed. Metamorph duplicates your Dragons, Wurmcoils and your opponents Dreadnoughts, Tombstalkers, Progenitus and Emrakuls.

Legionnaire is a fantastic two drop due to the first strike.

Moltentail is a solid 4 drop artifact dragon since it flies and you can trade your life to pump it and do the last bit of damage.

Moltensteel Dragon 4PP
Artifact Creature - Dragon
4/4
(P) can be paid with R or 2 life
Flying
P: Moltensteel Dragon gets +1/+0 until end of turn.

Replace the crappier cards with these and this deck is ready to fly.

[Raggedjoe]

I really like this deck idea and the new set just leaked.

Porcelain Legionaire, Phyrexian Metamorph and Moltensteel Dragon are all exactly the kick in the pants this deck needed. Metamorph duplicates your Dragons, Wurmcoils and your opponents Dreadnoughts, Tombstalkers, Progenitus and Emrakuls.

Legionnaire is a fantastic two drop due to the first strike.

Moltentail is a solid 4 drop artifact dragon since it flies and you can trade your life to pump it and do the last bit of damage.

Moltensteel Dragon 4PP
Artifact Creature - Dragon
4/4
(P) can be paid with R or 2 life
Flying
P: Moltensteel Dragon gets +1/+0 until end of turn.

Replace the crappier cards with these and this deck is ready to fly.

I too am excited for the deck, not for the big guys but rather the small ones. Flying, base power, and lifeline for {1} is awesome! Legionaire might also be good, but I'm less sure of him

[clumsylicious]

Vault Skirge
1 PB
Flying
Lifelink
1/1

This little guy is just awesome.Give him plating and he fills up your lifecount as fast as possible. You can counter Tendrils with it. I will test out, if it replaces Signal Pest, maybe.

Don't thinkt that the dragon or the metamorph will have any place in the classical deck build. Moltensteel-Dragon is just too expensive with it´s four mana, because Tezzeret is rather too expensive either, but when he hits the table und resolves for one round, the game is over. The other three-drops like Master of Etherium and Etched Champion are just more viable than the Metamorph. The only reason for Metamorph is, that it kills Progenitus and Emrakul.

But it is all about testing out if it fits in your meta and if it cuts the explosiveness of your affinity. I don't want that, because I love spitting out my hand in just two rounds :)

[MoonDark]

That guy should improve the match against burn, but that match is not actually bad.

The dragon is not viable IMHO

[Clark Kant]

Yeah I guess 4 mana is too much. I do think Legionaire and the 2cc 2/1 flyer have potential but maybe there's no room for them.

Do we have room for Mental Misstep to protect big dudes from removal, burn etc? It's free, a fow without the discard, and seems bonkers.

Phyrexian Metamorph is a great sideboard option vs Emrakul, Progenitus etc.

The best maybe the pyroclasm for non artifact creatures for the board. A one sided pyroclasm is great.

[Justin]

I think this deck got nothing from New Phyrexian beyond a couple sideboard options. Dispatch probably makes to strongest case for the main deck, although Galvanic Blast is probably a better removal spell for this deck because it hits players.

[clumsylicious]

The Skirge is way better than every Frogmite, Memnite or even Signal Pest in a couple of matchings. It has 1 / 1 for 1 mana, has evasion and lifelink. What do you want more?

[Greenpoe]

The Skirge is way better than every Frogmite, Memnite or even Signal Pest in a couple of matchings. It has 1 / 1 for 1 mana, has evasion and lifelink. What do you want more?

Costing 1 mana is a drawback as soon as Mental misstep becomes legal. [Edit: I forgot it's 1{PB}. So Skrige>Signal Pest with MM around.] Mental Misstep will become widely played, and stompy decks will become much more common (especially Dragon Stompy with it's new tools). Affinity is in an excellent position to take advantage of this by going:
-4 Signal Pest
-4 Springleaf Drum
-4 artifact land
+4 Ancient Tomb - This card is awesome.
+4 Porcelain Legionnaire. 3/1 first strike artifact for 2 mana? Pretty cool. Either him or Steel Overseer (who's pretty awesome with 8 zero cc creatures and Ancient Tomb.)
+4 Paradise Mantle - I really hate to drop Springleaf drum, that card simply won games, but with the soon to be rise of Mental Misstep and chalice@1 decks, let's capitalize on virtual CA. The color-fix is neccessary, though.

[Volrath]

Costing 1 mana is a drawback as soon as Mental zmisstep becomes legal. Mental Misstep will become widely played, and stompy decks will become much more common (especially Dragon Stompy with it's new tools). Affinity is in an excellent position to take advantage of this by going:
-4 Signal Pest
-4 Springleaf Drum
-4 artifact land
+4 Ancient Tomb - This card is awesome.
+4 Porcelain Legionnaire. 3/1 first strike artifact for 2 mana? Pretty cool. Either him or Steel Overseer (who's pretty awesome with 8 zero cc creatures and Ancient Tomb.)
+4 Paradise Mantle - I really hate to drop Springleaf drum, that card simply won games, but with the soon to be rise of Mental Misstep and chalice@1 decks, let's capitalize on virtual CA. The color-fix is neccessary, though.

The skirge has a CMC of 2, 1 {PB} to be excact.

[Clark Kant]

I think it's time the deck moves away from the black 1/1 wizard to cards like master epitherium that are good on their own.

We can play chalice at 1 ourselves. All of our guys can be 0cc or 2cc. The skiege helps with that by costing one mana but having a converted mana cost of two.

If we play the 2cc artifact 2/1 flyer, that plus skirge gives us enough flyers for plating that we can probably cut out Ornithopter (mostly useless outside of cranial plating)

[clumsylicious]

IMO the 2/1 flyer is not viable. What we want is explosiveness, our 2cc-drops are already enough due the 3cc drops like Master of Etherium or Etched Champion. We don't want to put the mana-curve slightly higher with every set that is released. On the one hand this block made this deck much faster (Mox Opal) , but on the other hand we got some threats (Etched Champion, Tezzeret) with higher mana-amounts. I won't risk to lose more explosivness with a 2/1 flyer. We already have a high amount of evasive creatures (Champion, Pest, Ornithopter, Skirge, Inkmoth- / Blinkmoth-Nexus, maybe Thopter Foundry).
And the skirge is fixing the liveloss of the Ancient Tombs and is well fitting in the deck. I will cut the Frogmites for them, cause the Signal Pest is just going nuts in this deck.
The Ornithopter is great cause it is boosting Mox Opal with the artifact lands and Memnites. Just try out how often you get your T1-Mox to work without them. IMO mostly all classical lists have to run four of them.

[MoonDark]

Frogmite is great against pernicious deed, engineered explosives, etc. I won't cut him at all

[The Big Ragu]

I'm really liking Torpor Orb. It's definitely a bit narrow, but will be great against Imperial Painter, Thopter and Aluren decks. I'll run a copy in my sideboard for sure.
http://www.channelfireball.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Torpor-Orb.jpg

[SlopeeJ]

painter is like Iona, doesn't trigger.

[The Big Ragu]

Recruiters trigger.

[SlopeeJ]

Seems good...

[MoonDark]

In my opinion and coming from a strong combo meta, Mental Misstep is the best thing that has happened to the deck in a while. Will be running 4x .

[(nameless one)]

Hey guys,

How does this deck deal with Null Rod?

Thanks!

[clumsylicious]

I am dealing with Null Rod in two different ways: Ancient Tomb and Glimmervoid for casting, the rest is swing for swing, round for round...
The second way for me is Krosan Grip / Nature's Claim, hold on your hand and response on casting the Null Rod.

[luckme10]

So with 4 mental misstep, 4 thoughtcast, 4 master of etherium (which now has a bettter shot against removal), and 3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas... 4x Force of Will really seems like less of a stretch now.

[Heresy]

So with 4 mental misstep, 4 thoughtcast, 4 master of etherium (which now has a bettter shot against removal), and 3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas... 4x Force of Will really seems like less of a stretch now.

Don't forget the new swords to plowshare.

[AlexAI]

Hey guys,

How does this deck deal with Null Rod?

Thanks!

In my experiences, Null Rod is as good for the opponent as the opposite of Affinity's board position. If Affinity has an overwhelming board position already, it won't do any good to answer a MoE/Plated guy. After turn 3 Affinity has probably dropped its hand. Just today I won against a guy dropping Rod turn two on the draw because I already had a plating on a thopter and just kept playing out 0 drops/frogs I drew(my hand was close to the nut though and winning through t2 null rod will not happen often). If the opposing decks only resistance is Rod, he usually won't win unless he has enough to see them consistently t2-3, and if that is the case, you should probably not play it in that metagame(which I also found out, hard, today).

[brianw712]

I think a Vial Affinity list that could conceivably beat combo would be a good approach for the deck. The following list seemed to fare well in testing:

4 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Den
4 City of Brass

4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Master of Etherium
4 Etched Champion
4 Mother of Runes
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Tidehollow Strix

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Mental Misstep
3 Mox Opal
4 Thoughtcast
4 Aether Vial
3 Cranial Plating

It loses the explosiveness of traditional affinity, but gains a lot of disruptive capabilities. Thoughts?

[4eak]

I am dealing with Null Rod in two different ways: Ancient Tomb and Glimmervoid for casting, the rest is swing for swing, round for round...
The second way for me is Krosan Grip / Nature's Claim, hold on your hand and response on casting the Null Rod.

The first way, particularly the use of Ancient Tomb, makes your mana-base considerably weaker in my view. Ancient Tomb is a lackluster card. Yes, it is better than artifact lands against Null Rod, but Null Rod isn't common enough to give us reason to play Tomb. And, if it was common enough, we wouldn't play this deck anyways.

The second way is kind of complicated. You may or may not be saying what is actually happening, I'm not sure. The tricky part of answering Null Rod with disenchant effects is the fact that you have to float that mana before Null Rod hits play, and then you can Disenchant it. The problem, of course, is that you can't tap out for fear of Null Rod. And, if you aren't tapping out, then you aren't playing the role of the Affinity deck very well. Even worse, outside of Nature's claim, most of the time Affinity won't even have the mana to answer a turn 2 Null rod.



In my experiences, Null Rod is as good for the opponent as the opposite of Affinity's board position. If Affinity has an overwhelming board position already, it won't do any good to answer a MoE/Plated guy. After turn 3 Affinity has probably dropped its hand. Just today I won against a guy dropping Rod turn two on the draw because I already had a plating on a thopter and just kept playing out 0 drops/frogs I drew(my hand was close to the nut though and winning through t2 null rod will not happen often). If the opposing decks only resistance is Rod, he usually won't win unless he has enough to see them consistently t2-3, and if that is the case, you should probably not play it in that metagame(which I also found out, hard, today).

I agree. And, almost always, Affinity's board position at the time of dropping Null Rod just isn't enough to win. I can't think of a deck packing Null rod which doesn't have additional resistance or outs to what is already on the board. I want to re-emphasize that winning through a turn 2 Null Rod is exceedingly rare. And, if people do consistently play artifact hate in a metagame, this deck doesn't belong in that metagame.



How does this deck deal with Null Rod?


So, to answer your question, it effectively doesn't.

If you happen to be running an E-tutor board, Null Rod is a very reasonable choice, being better than Aura of Silence, but worse than Serenity type cards. The nice part about Null Rod is that it performs double duty, being cross-hate against not just affinity, but also any Chrome Mox/LED combo deck (I've even used it in weirder circumstances to great effect).



peace,
4eak

[Bosaapje]

Hi everyone,

I've been testing lately with this list. What do think of it?

Mana:

2 Glimmervoid
3 Darksteel Citadel
4 Ancient Den
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Mox Opal
21

Creature:

3 Frogmite
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Etched Champion
4 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest
4 Master of Etherium
4 Ethersworn Canonist
27

Other Stuff:

4 Cranial Plating
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Thoughtcast
12


Sideboard:

1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Mindbreak Trap
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mental Misstep
15

I'm only missing some artifact/enchantment destroy things in the SB but I don't think that's a big problem. The only big problem that I can see is Null Rod. It breaks my mana base into little pieces and makes me cry in a corner. So shall I put some Inkmoth Nexus's into my manabase for extra consistancy or shall I just ignore Null Rod and just leave it like this.

Cheers,

Maarten ~

[The Big Ragu]

You're running only 21 mana sources (and no drums, which is odd) and you have 12 cards that cost between 3 - 4 mana. Your mana base is paltry, and your spells are like lead weight in the deck. I run 4 Masters of Etherium, and 2 Tezzerets, and even by that I consider my particular build to be a bit on the slow side, especially when compared to deck lists that go for either a green or red splash.

Ravager is pretty weak without Disciple of the Vault, and he has bad synergy with Tezzeret.

Mental Misstep is out of place. This is a deck that aims for pure aggressive speed. It doesn't want to play a control strategy, it just wants to dump its hand onto the board as soon as possible.

[4eak]

Ravager is pretty weak without Disciple of the Vault, and he has bad synergy with Tezzeret.

Even when Disciple is in your deck, having a Ravager but not a Disciple in play is far from weak. Ravager is a fantastic card. I'm still shocked when I see people trying to remove him. I think it is still a mistake to remove Disciple (after a great deal of testing), but it is more forgivable than removing Ravager from the deck.

I wouldn't say Ravager has bad synergy with Tezzeret either. If you are saccing out to Ravager, it is for three reasons:

(1) It wins you the game by forcing damage (and sometimes lifeloss) through.
(2) You've mitigated the value of removal on any artifacts you control.
(3) You are engaging in combat tricks, e.g. blocking and saccing before damage to fizzle a Jitte trigger.

The first two abilities of Tezzeret are actually pretty synergistic with Ravager. The ultimate isn't always. But, let us look at the major reasons to be saccing for ravager. In the case of (1), you will usually use Tezz's ultimate ability before you attack. Almost always, you are winning the game in this case, and lacking synergy when you've sacced your board to win the game just doesn't matter that much. In the case of (2), you were going to lose that artifact anyways -- it wasn't going to be there for Tezz's ultimate. In (3) we see that Ravager is making special plays worth making, even if losing the 2 life difference from Tezz's ultimate, you still get to use Tezz's other two abilities to put yourself ahead in the game.

Again, if you have both Ravager and Tezz in play for any serious amount of time, you are probably already winning the game. Any perceived lack of synergy just isn't that relevant when you were winning the game. Demanding even more synergy between Ravager and Tezz is plainly seeking what is win-more rather than an improvement.

Honestly, I don't see most players playing with Ravager correctly. It is by far the most complicated card in the deck to use correctly. I'm still convinced Ravager is the best card in the deck.


peace,
4eak

[(nameless one)]

Cool, thanks for the Null Rod answer.

I am actually just looking for answers for my MUD Stompy deck.

Though my friend who is building Affinity has a question: how does Slag Fiend look in Sligh-Affinity (the list without Agent Tezzeret, the one that runs Galvanic and Shrapnel Blasts)?

[Bosaapje]

You're running only 21 mana sources (and no drums, which is odd) and you have 12 cards that cost between 3 - 4 mana. Your mana base is paltry, and your spells are like lead weight in the deck. I run 4 Masters of Etherium, and 2 Tezzerets, and even by that I consider my particular build to be a bit on the slow side, especially when compared to deck lists that go for either a green or red splash.

Ravager is pretty weak without Disciple of the Vault, and he has bad synergy with Tezzeret.

Mental Misstep is out of place. This is a deck that aims for pure aggressive speed. It doesn't want to play a control strategy, it just wants to dump its hand onto the board as soon as possible.

I know I'm a bit low at mana sources and I'm also not sure if I wanna keep Ravager because I don't play Disciples. So maybe I can replace Ravager with 3 Drums and then I can put a extra Glimmervoid (or so) in it. Then the problem with Ravager + Tezz is also gone, so I don't have to worry about that anymore.

Why do you think that Misstep is out of place? It gives me a better match up against Zoo (Bye bye Bolt, Nacatl, Chain Lightning, Swords, Path) and it will slow down Combo with countering the Rituals if I don't have a Chalice in play. Well, I've got a not so bad MU against Combo with 4 Chalice SB and 4 Canonist MB so I thought maybe cutting 1 Trap, 1 Misstep (3 others for Zoo and random Berserk-decks) and replacing them with 2 Krosan Grips. 2 Grips are a bit tight and you might not draw them, but it's better than none.

So what do you think? Does it make the deck better if I make these changes?

Cheers

~

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Vault Skirge is amazing, period. I'm not sold on anything else, but Skirge is really kicking butt in my testing.

FWIW, I'm experimenting with a version that boards in blue goodies, rather than running them MD (I tried MD, but wasn't all that impressed). It looks something like this:


4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Ancient Den
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers

4 Vault Skirge
4 Frogmite
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Etched Champion
4 Ornithopter
4 Master of Etherium

4 Cranial Plating
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Thoughtcast
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Dispatch



Sideboard:

3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mental Misstep
4 Force of Will

[Reaver027]

The deck i am building looks very similar to yours Goaswerfraiejen.
I really liked your Sideboard so i will try that one myself. Love the idea of becomming a little bit more control when needed.

So this is the deck i am working on:

20 Mana
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Ancient Den
4 Darksteel Citadel
3 Mox Opal
1 Glimmervoid

24 Creatures
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Vault Skirge
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Porcelain Legionnaire
4 Master of Etherium

16 Spells
4 Thoughtcast
4 Cranial Plating
4 Dispatch
4 ??? (StP / PtE / Tezzeret AoB / Vial / Jitte) could use some ideas here

15 Sideboard
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mental Misstep
4 Force of Will

Vault Skirge and Porcelain Legionnaire seem very strong.. I have not tested with them yet but a 1 mana 1/1 flyer is really good for the deck. Same goes for a 2 mana 3/1 first striker.
Since the deck got enough options to even pay the Phy Mana it should not hurt too much playing both. You will only pay life for Phy Mana early in the game anyway. Lifelink on the SKkrge helps too.

I decided to go with the Mox/Glimmervoid package over Drum cause i just like it better.

For the last four slots i am currently in favor of StP. Nothing is more annoying to get stalled out by a creature based deck. It happened to me way too often to get my opponent down to 1 - 3 life and then get stalled out. More removal will help in those situations.
Vial could work very good as well. There are 16 creatures at 2 and 3 mana.
Since i never had the opportunity to play with Tezzeret i cant really comment on him. But the 4 mana seems rather slow. Perhaps only 2 and 2 more lands (Glimmervoid / Blinkmoth Nexus / Inkmoth Nexus) ?

Any thoughts on the deck ?

Edit: What about one or two Jittes ? Legionnaire is really good at carrying a Jitte. And it would offset the loss of life even more.

[Greenpoe]

Drum wins games. Affinity wins from speed. Personally, I run 16 land (including 4 Ancient Tomb to evade Deed/Null Rod), 4 Opal and 3 Drum. Also, I strongly recommend cutting Dispatch for Galvanic Blast. Affinity is has huge creatures and prefers the burn to finish off an opponent (or even target a planeswalker).

[the Thin White Duke]

Drum wins games. Affinity wins from speed. Personally, I run 16 land (including 4 Ancient Tomb to evade Deed/Null Rod), 4 Opal and 3 Drum. Also, I strongly recommend cutting Dispatch for Galvanic Blast. Affinity is has huge creatures and prefers the burn to finish off an opponent (or even target a planeswalker).

+1
Not a big fan of Dispatch either. Having more than 8 instants/sorceries takes away from creatures which is what this deck is all about. Galvanic Blast was one of the best things for this deck to come out of the new block.

[HokusSchmokus]

I also don't think you should cut Drums. Also, what happened to Frogmite?This bad of a card?
If I wanted to play Affinity with NPH my list would look kind of like:

4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Glimmervoid
1 Ancient Den

4 Cranial Plating
4 Springleaf Drum
3 Mox Opal

3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

4 Thoughtcast

4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Master of Etherium
4 Vault Skirge
3 Etched Champion
3 Frogmite

SB: 3 Pithing Needle
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Engineered Plague
3 Tormod's Crypt

My only problem is that I kind of want a single Enforcer and 4 Frogmite, but I don't know what to cut. 1 Master of Etherium for 1 Enforcer would seem ok, but I don't really know. Any ideas / thoughts on my list?

Edit: Also, to all the football fans out there: we won this shit, biatch!

[AggroSteve]

in your case i would cut ravager, specially since you are not playing disciple of the vault

[HokusSchmokus]

The thing with Ravager is that you have access to nice little combat tricks. Also, you have an out to removal.

[Muckel]

The Problem is that Ravager is a 1/1 vanilla for cC2 and u dont want sacc 3 of ur Monsters to protect an ravager or vault skirge form a lightning bolt. So i think u shuold cut him and play Singnal Pest and ancient Tomb. With that nice Card u are able to cast Tezz in t2-3 and u are able to cast etched Champion in t1.

[esqulax]

What would you guys suggest for anti combo sideboard cards? I already play 4 Cannonists, but I don't seem to have a lot of trouble with most matchups besides combo so I would love to devote a few more slots to it. The card that looked the strongest to me was Leyline of Sanctity since it also gets around thoughtseize, but I don't know what you guys think?

[The Big Ragu]

Sphere of Resistance. Possibly Chalice.

[Reaver027]

I have been testing my build that i posted earlier and i noticed that i need a few more mana sources. I also took a closer look at Dispatch again and decided that while its a great card the loss of reach and the one mana casting cost make it not good enough.

I decided to replace Dispatch with Shrapnel Blast. At first i was thinking about Galvanic Blast but the one mana casting cost scared me a way a little. You dont really want to play one mana casting cost cards at the moment if you can avoid it.

With that said i added three Great Furnace to the deck and cut one Ancient Den. I think i will go down to two Ancient Den and up the Furnance count up to four.

The last two remaining slots were filled with Frogmite for now.

Thi is what i ended up with.

22 Mana Sources
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
3 Ancient Den
3 Great Furnace
4 Darksteel Citadel
3 Mox Opal
1 Glimmervoid

26 Creatures
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Vault Skirge
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Porcelain Legionnaire
4 Master of Etherium
2 Frogmite

16 Spells
4 Thoughtcast
4 Cranial Plating
4 Shrapnel Blast

Sideboard
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mental Misstep
4 Force of Will

Any further comments or ideas ?

[AggroSteve]

how was porcelain legionnaire and vault skirge, i have still to test them, and i am interrested in both cards

why no etched champions and springleaf drums and no disciple of the vault if playing arcbound ?

[Fjedsen]

Hey,

After I've read nearly all important sites in this thread, I decided to show you my list and explain my choices and thoughts for Affinity.

General thoughts:

Arcbound Ravager or not ?
-> I think Ravager is one of the strongest cards in the deck. Even without Disciple. His main job is to confuse the opponet and make simple decisions very complicated. He makes removal useless and is some sort of removal magnet. And when he dies, he makes another creature stronger (especially Etched Champion profits here). Also it isn't that painfull to draw lands when Ravager is on the field.

Disciple or not ?
If you play black, I would play him. He is so good in pressing some damage through. He is also very helpful against combo decks like DFT and ANT.
Currently I know some people playing some sort of Landstill with Peacekeeper in the sideboard. Disciple plays around Peacekeeper very nicely.

Tezzeret or not ?
-> Tezz is great, but I don't like him in Affinity. I tested him against some of my friend and he wasn't that overwhelmig to me. Often he was clogging up my hand and came not before turn 4. And then he didn't do to much besides dying to a goblin horde or something like that ...

What to do against Null Rod ?
I played a small tournament and played against a guy who got it two times in the first round (After sideboarding). I think there isn't much you can do against it. Play discard or artifact hate.
If you are playing red artifact hate seems the best option. I often thought about Overload because it gets rid of Null Rod, Vial, Jitte. And is pretty much nuts against other affinity decks. Another option is Crush from Besieged. Deals with every single equippment, Rod, Vial, ...
Green could use Nature's Claim. But green doesn't offer much other cards to play with.

Discard I would run: Thoughtseize, Duress, Inquisition of Kozilek, ...

Now for the list:

Affinity UBW

Creatures:
4 Etched Champion
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Signal Pest
3 Myr Enforcer
4 Frogmite
4 Memnite
2 Ornithopter

Non Creatures:
4 Cranial Plating
4 Springleaf Drum
3 Mox Opal
4 Thoughtcast
2 Thopter Foundry

Lands:
1 Glimmervoid
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Darksteel Citadel
4 Vault of Whispers
2 Ancient Den

Sideboard:
4 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Duress
2 Deathmark
3 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Pithing Needle

It is a pretty standart list.
Etched Champion: This card is soooo insane. Against aggro decks like Zoo he is the matchwinner. Blocks every creature and can't be killed. Equipped with Cranial Plating he clubs everyone to death in ca 2 rounds.
I like him better then Master of Etherium for the following reason:
Champion is unblockable und unkillable. Master dies to every removal in the format: Smother, Swords, Path, Ghastly Demise, ...
My meta represents a lot of agressive lists like Zoo, Deadguy Ale, Goblins, ... and so I think the Champion is way better, then Master.

I think 4 3cc creatures are enough for 14 lands, 3 Moxes and 4 Drums. The maximum of Champions and Masters I would play is 6. Something like 3 Champions and 3 Masters, ... or something like that. But this could also be very clunky ...

Signal Pest: The new and improved Ornithopter ;). I absolutley love this card. Raises the preasure, is nearly impossible to block (Cranial Plating !), ...
Only downside: Signal Pest is only a good card, when other creatures or Plating is on the field. But creautres on the board is always the plan of Affninty ;)

Thopter Foundry: Got this one from Tim Morrisons list. Its a really good card, specially against agressive decks. Makes removal useless, gains life, blabla and so on ...

Sideboard:
Self explanatory.
Ethersworn Canonist: Against Combo.
Duress: Against Combo and Control
Deathmark: Against Elves, Bant, Maverick, ...
Nihil Spellbomb: Against Dredge, Reanimator, Loam, Lands, ...
Pithing Needle: Against Deed. And other annyoing cards but mainly Deeds ;)

New Phyrexia:
I think the mentioned Skirge and Legionnaire are very nice. Didn't get to test them yet.
I also want to test Whipflare. Seems like a nice card for the Sideboard
Don't know what to think about Slagfiend. Could also be very strong with Ravager.
Dispatch seems a good addition too. But a lot of people don't seem too satisfied with this card.

In the future I want to test some lists with red.
Perhaps something like URB or URW.
Another interesting build would be a simple UW build with main Canonists, Dispatches, ...

Anybody already tried Canonists MD ? What were your experiences ?

[YoullBeDead]

Why doesn't anyone use Copy Artifact? Is it smart to be going into battle with no artifact/enchantment removal in the 75? And no meaningful creature removal, at a min Jitte or Sword of Fire and Ice?

[Justin]

Copy Artifact is "win more," meaning that it's a horrible topdeck when you have nothing game-breaking on the board to copy, and when you could use it to copy something good, you are already winning because you have something good.

I would recommend some artifact/enchantment hate if you are expecting people to sideboard cards such as Null Rod or Energy Flux.

Creature removal is not necessary because this deck wins faster than most other creature decks. It's just up to your personal preference. The best removal, in my opinion, if Galvanic Blast because it can also be aimed at the opponent.

[AggroSteve]

i was just now thinking of trying out lightning greaves as a 2 of, i was simply overwhelmed by the power of etched champion, making opponents removal allmost useless, i would love to have another way to do so, plus haste would be quite a good ability speeding our deck up a bit

what do you guys think?

[Fjedsen]

Lightning Greaves are good. But I don't know a single card, that I would cut in favor of Lightning Greaves.

General question:
How do you sideboard ? I often end up by taking out Myr Enforcers, Thopters and/or Thopter Foundry ...

[AggroSteve]

i am thinking of cutting my 2 thopter foundrys for the 2 lightning greaves, well at least they deserve testing, and it would be rather awesome if a ornithopter with plating can not be killed/removed, and even has haste^^, also i do not like my etched champions to die to jitte