[Deck] Affinity

[Shawon]

I played the Ancient Tomb manabase last night. I wanted to revisit the SB Chalice plan, and the Ancient Tomb manabase is the best manabase in Affinity suitable to utilize that option. I also wanted to try out Spine of Ish Sah lol. It's a pretty hilarious card, and I theorized that I could somehow hardcast it if I had Tombs on the board - and it did happen!

Lands
12 Artifact Lands (Esper)
4 Tomb
8 mana rocks
1 Mantle

Creatures
8 Cheeri0s
4 Ravager
4 SFM
4 Champ
3 Skirge

Business
4 Plating
4 Thoughtcast
3 Tezz
1 SoFI

SB
4 Chalice
3 Cage
3 Spine
2 Canonist
1 Tezz
1 Karakas
1 Jitte

Round 1: Alex (BUG Delver) 1-2
Game 1 - I win the usual way of applying too much pressure.
Game 2 - This is why I hate Ancient Tomb. He draws two Wastelands. I don't get mana screwed, but I'm just saying, that is why I don't like Ancient Tomb. This is also why I hate Chalice, because I draw it when it's too late, in game states where I would rather have something as slow as Tezz.
Game 3 - I durdled way too much and fail to draw any business. It happens.

0-1

Round 2: Nick (Mono-green ramp) 2-0
Not much to talk about here. Nick's deck is more or less casual so the games were really short.

1-1

Round 3: Miles (Goblins) 2-1
Game 1: He uses Tuk Tuk to nuke my SoFI, but I get Tezz down, and I alpha strike with Tezz's -1 targeting Ornithopter and distributing Ravager counters. Apparently, he would have won next turn or I wouldn't have been able to win if I hadn't gone for it because he was going to get Kiki-Jiki and Tuk Tuk online :eek:
Game 2: He wastes me twice on Ancient Tomb (:mad: This is why I dislike Ancient Tomb! Being griefed on mana happens with this deck if every one of your lands can be nuked by Wasteland!), and then shortly gets Tuk-Tuk + Kiki-Jiki. Game over.
Game 3: I get Jitte out. Fast. He can't win.

2-1

Round 4: Jeremy (Miracles) 2-1
Game 1: I win with pressure, except I give him an extra turn because I'm at 4-6 life and I chose not to play a Plating FTW because I didn't want to lose 2 life AND walk into removal. I still should've went for it, because if he used STP, I would've gained life that way, and I still would've been able to use my Tombs. Again, I wouldn't have had to make those decisions if I wasn't running Ancient Tomb in the first place.
Game 2: He Enlightened Tutors for Serenity. I still went for a SOFI-equipped strike. My friend Jeremiah remarked "this man has some cajones." I lose obviously. I ask Jeremy if I should bring in Spine against him. He says if I can cast it, it's in the realm of possibility. I take his advice.
Game 3: And I win with Spine, by topdecking Ancient Tomb to cast it, targeting his Rest in Peace, the turn before he was going to cast Helm. LOLOLOL. Oh wait, I'm not done. After I nuke Rest in Peace, I use Ravager to sacrifice Spine EOT. What happens, you ask? Spine goes back to my hand. Next turn, Spine again. He STPs my Ravager, but then I play another one. I don't remember the sequence, but he also played Supreme Verdict and Terminus that game. You know how much you overwhelmed Miracles if you still won after facing two of their mass removals. That was a fun match and a great way to cap off the night.

3-1 (won a Spanish Canonist!)

Notes:

- I hate Ancient Tomb. As far as big tourneys go, I am sticking with what I feel most comfortable with and thus sticking with Citadels. However, as weeklies go, I'm going to keep testing the Tomb manabase because there's Elves and Cloudpost in my metagame and I think Chalice is one of the best SB options.
- SoFI is SOOOO good.
- Jitte is still needed in the SB as well.
- Remember the triggers of Spine leaving the battlefield. Any transition of play after neglecting to return it to your hand, say playing a land, leaves Spine in the grave. Jeremy warned me about this, so I will take this to heart.
- Must get the Born of the Gods art for Springleaf Drum. Sorry, that was a note to myself.

[Etched]

Hi, guys. Been reading the forums for awhile, and just picked up Ian Anderson's deck yesterday. Looking forward to playing with it. :)

[Shawon]

Meant to write this earlier, but I played at $30 entry tournament during a big snowstorm which resulted in an attendance of only 15 people. I finished in 5th place, winning a Rishadan Port for all of my troubles getting to and out of the event.

The list is essentially identical to the Tomb list I posted earlier, except I exchanged the Tombs for Darksteel Citadel. And I put back O-Rings and took out Spines, although my match against Cloudpost demonstrated how much better Spine would've been.

Round 1: John (BW Standard Reanimator) 2-0
Nothing much to say. He just built the deck and is generally new to Legacy. He didn't realize that searching for Emrakul with Buried Alive would trigger Emrakul's shuffling ability which would undo all of the gravedigging he was doing with Buried Alive. Oops.

Round 2: Jeremiah (Cloudpost) 1-1-1 aka DRAW
Game 1 it's nothing more than the usual "Show and Tell, Primeval Titan?" and I promptly lose. Game 2 I pull out a win without even using Tezzeret, which was surprising to me. The reason we draw is because regrettably, I sometimes tank too hard when playing against control, and as a result, I brought both me and Jeremiah to "turns," and on turn 5, Jeremiah has me on no permanents, but he can only attack me to 1 life with Ulamog. He asks if I want to scoop and much to his chagrin, I decline. We are friends and under different circumstances, such as if we were in turns on Round 4-5 and I was dead to advance and he needed the win to Top 8, I would've scooped since we're friends. But not on Round 2, even if it was my fault that we went into time in the first place. I felt a little bad and Jeremiah was initially pissed, but we're cool now, considering he ended up winning the tournament anyway :laugh:.

Round 3: Jason (Homebrew/Standard playable BR deck)
A bunch of the people who showed up happen to work at the store, and some of them don't even play Legacy, but entered in the tournament anyway to show up and have a good time, which I totally admire. Jason was probably one of the best guys to face after my awkward situation with Jeremiah, because we just talked a little and went about our match as casual as could be. I beat him 2-0. I'm just too fast for most Standard-legal decks, so I never usually end up seeing their actual game plan in games.

Round 4 (I can't even remember if we went 4-5 rounds, but it was 15 ppl, so likely 4): Glenn (UR Delver)
Game 1, in my opinion he makes a mistake to Daze my Vault SKirge, because I was tied on two mana, and I had a Plating in hand. I just put so much pressure that even if a stacked graveyard and active Grim Lavamancer, he can't do a thing.
Game 2, I just have mana backup against Daze and resolve SFM to find Jitte. He kills SFM, but it doesn't matter as long as I resolve Champ, which I do, and then I go to down, and even have counters to protect me when he tries to kill me with Pyromancer tokens.

Top 8: Semifinals - Wally (Elves, Homebrew version but still combo)
I lose 0-2. Instead of using Glimpse or Natural Order game 2, he just plays many elves on turn 2 with just Birchlore Rangers, and then uses a Druid guy that draws him cards every time a Druid ETBs. I mulliganed to a turn 2 SFM, but it was astonishing how little Jitte did in that game all because of that turn 2. This is why Mox Opal is the best card in the Affinity deck, because if I had that in the opener, I would've turn 1 SFM and attacked with Jitte sooner.

I'm still a happy camper, because I win a Rishadan Port for 5th. Great times!

Anything I could take away from the experience:

- Be better with watching the clock and pacing my play.
- In small tournaments, if I'm expecting at least 2 bad control matchups, such as Cloudpost or Miracles, it's probably wise to metagame and include the 4th Tezzeret MD.
- I need to redraft my plan against Elves, without having to rely on drawing Chalice in my opening hand.

[Draconicsteel]

I really like Zealous Persecution against Elves. That and Canonist are a pretty good plan against them, but I thought SFM was too slow. Elves can go off FAST, so I generally consider it more of a combo deck, so I side out all my slow stuff.

Still not sure about Chalices. I'm not running them, so I switched out my Ancient Tombs for Citadels, too. Got blown out by Wasteland on Tomb a few weeks ago, and wasn't really disappointed with the Citadels. Also, played in a tournament yesterday where all my lands got nuked by Pernicious Deed :( That's a sad feeling, let me tell you. But Citadel is the only thing that gives us a chance from coming back from that.

[Shawon]

Still not sure about Chalices. I'm not running them, so I switched out my Ancient Tombs for Citadels, too. Got blown out by Wasteland on Tomb a few weeks ago, and wasn't really disappointed with the Citadels. Also, played in a tournament yesterday where all my lands got nuked by Pernicious Deed :( That's a sad feeling, let me tell you. But Citadel is the only thing that gives us a chance from coming back from that.

Having the security knowing that Darksteel Citadel can't be eliminated by Wasteland allows you to keep otherwise risky hands.

Also, Tezzeret targeting Darksteel Citadel can be very significant. It's the best way to beat Jund.

[slave]

Hi dudes,
I'm looking for a bit of advice....

I'm typically a Dredger (mainly manaless, but also LED dredge), but occasionally play storm also (Pact SI, Ant.) when I feel like getting countered.:tongue:
I bought all the components to this deck ages ago, and played it to some success for a while but kinda gave up on it due to getting blown out week after week against combo, storm, control and yes, even aggro mid-range decks like Jund.
Soo0OO0ooo yeah, pretty much got owned by every serious deck, with answers that just bend us over and fuck us bloody with brutal efficiency.

I wanna see what I can do with a revised list, I think WUB is the strongest chance here.
Here's the list I'm working on;

4 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Den
4 Inkmoth Nexus

4 Mox Opal
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Etched Champion
8 Tallmen
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Vault Skirge **
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Thoughtcast
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Cranial Plating
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fie and Ice

SIDEBOARD:
4 Grafdigger's Cage
3-4 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Batterskull
4 Dispatch
And;
2-3 other slots...
Maybe some bounce like Echoing Truth (think Ensnaring Bridge, chumpers, Elephant Grass, Dredge Zombie tokens etc.).

Nothing groundbreaking obviously. Let me explain a couple of choices here;
Because we can almost always cast 2-drops turn1 (unless we're unlucky with mulling), I've gone with Canonist in the main, as I really wanna up my chances against Storm/Combo (where we typically lose hard given a lack of counter). Yeah sure, Canonist can be mediocre on occasions, but losing game1 puts us on the back foot badly > we need to win game1, no different to Dredge, because once they board in their hate we're unlikely to win twice.

I've been debating the use of Grafdigger's Cage VS Rest In Peace VS Relic of Progenitus for ages.
As a dredge player, I know that Cage isn't that great compared to RiP. Against any decent LED-dredge player, you would expect a Chain of Vapor line of play coming in from the sideboard in response to a likely Cage (cos what else are we likely to play?), so I know Dredges' *big turn* won't be too far away.
That said, Cage shuts off Green Sun's Zenith and friends too.
But Relic is card advantage > which this deck sorely needs to compete! Arrrrrgh!!!! :mad:
Given that a poor mana-hand (and the white requirement) makes RiP situational, and flexibility in the side is important, I think cage is the better choice.
....but for saying Cage is good, I wanna shoot myself in both eye's with a nerfgun!

4x Inkmoth Nexus. No Darksteel Citadel. Why you ask? Because whilst Wasteland is a threat, it's not in every deck out there, just the same way Deeds is only in few decks.
And because I wanna maximise my threat density to increase my game1 chances.
My reasoning is, once an opponent see's this little trick, Nexus will inadvertently protect my coloured mana sources by attracting their hate. I'm yet to test this is a competitive environment, but that's not too far away. I'm sure some of you have already tested this > feedback welcome!

Batterskull maindeck has been amazing for me in the past, given it's potentially a T2 Fuck your Goyf. But it's still a shaky choice @ 5cmc, so I've bumped it to the side.
I want both Jitte & Sword of F+I in the main, given that SFM = time for opponent to play your discard.
I've not been overly impressed with Sword of Light and Shadow, although it does love SFM.
Vault Skirge is another shaky selection here > I'm still not sure about this sucker. Honestly I'm looking for a better option, but Forgmite isn't it. Enforcer doesn't look too bad, but I'd not want to run more than a single really.

Any advice you fella's can give me?

[Etched]

Question for you sirs: How many of you are on the Stoneforge plan?

[Shawon]

Any advice you fella's can give me?

The thing about Canonist MD is that you are taking a hit on your G1s against other fair decks that you would otherwise beat if you ran something more relevant than Canonist, for a small and pretty uncertain increase against some combo decks.

If Canonist didn't have bad or no compounding value, I could see it MD. Tidehollow Sculler is a good example of a possible MD hatebear with compounding value, if only its casting cost wasn't so restrictive.

On the graveyard debate: Many people consider Rest in Peace the best graveyard hate, and I don't think there's anything wrong with it. I think it's personally one mana too slow against scary gy decks like Reanimator. I run Cage, but I would rather run Rest in Peace over Relic because Rest in Peace just stops strategies cold, and it prevents 'dying' triggers as well.

I've said on record that I think Inkmoth > Ancient Tomb, but one issue I've had with 4 Inkmoth, like with Ancient Tomb, is access to Metalcraft on turn 1, which is why I prefer Darksteel over either card. Inkmoth is still legit, though.

I'm no longer as hyped up about Batterskull as I once was. If we are using SoFI, I think that's enough against red-based decks, and furthermore, TNN makes Batterskull into a worse card.

Another Equipment that makes you ignore Goyfs is Sword of Feast and Famine. Have you tried that, slave? It seems just as good as Batterskull against midrange decks with Goyf in them.

[Darkenslight]

I actually think, if TNN is going to be so heavily in the meta, that Horned Helm might actually be a better pick, given that it's trample, a cheap equip cost and the potential to instant-speed the equip, like Plating.

[Serbitar]

Because we can almost always cast 2-drops turn1 (unless we're unlucky with mulling), I've gone with Canonist in the main

Not sure if I'm missing something, but isn't the only way to cast two-drops on turn one with this deck Mox Opal? Are you saying you mulligan for Mox Opal?

[Shawon]

Ancient Tomb + Drum + Memnite generates two mana on turn 1.

[slave]

The thing about Canonist MD is that you are taking a hit on your G1s against other fair decks that you would otherwise beat....If Canonist didn't have bad or no compounding value, I could see it MD. Tidehollow Sculler is a good example of a possible MD hatebear with compounding value, if only its casting cost wasn't so restrictive.

On the graveyard debate: Many people consider Rest in Peace the best graveyard hate..... I run Cage, but I would rather run Rest in Peace over Relic.

I've said on record that I think Inkmoth > Ancient Tomb, but one issue I've had with 4 Inkmoth, like with Ancient Tomb, is access to Metalcraft on turn 1, which is why I prefer Darksteel over either card.

I'm no longer as hyped up about Batterskull as I once was. If we are using SoFI, I think that's enough against red-based decks, and furthermore, TNN makes Batterskull into a worse card.
Another Equipment that makes you ignore Goyfs is Sword of Feast and Famine. Have you tried that, slave?

Thanks Shawon,
Fair enough, the more I've been testing Canonist against combo these last few days, the more I'm understanding this. I like to test stuff out, seems to be the way I learn this stuff best.
Storm seems to be the only real reason to run it MD, which isn't good enough.

Inkmoth Nexus doesn't help metalcraft, you're right. I may have to test that one a bit more. I'll try out 4, then a 2-2 split aswell.

RE: Grave;
Rest In Peace, like leyline of the Void, is about the only real hoser to graveyard strategy IME. All other options have a flaw.
But Cage also allows us to effect in some way decks that run;
Green Sun's Zenith
Summoning Trap
Genesis Wave
Birthing Pod
Natural Order
Past In Flames
Snapcaster Mage....I'm sure there's more to add to that list, including whole lines of play like flashback, undying, unearth, persist etc.
I'm sure this is worth a thought, as fast decks like Elves, run GSZ.
Being able to board in both Cage & Canonist to slow them down might be something to think about?

Yeah I tend to agree, True-Name Nemesis warped the field a bit. You may be right about Batterskull here.
I haven't tried out Sword of Feast or Famine > will give it a test, but it doesn't look great at a glance.
Sword of Body and Mind is average, but it does allow us to attack with everything for a free chumper, although this second ability can enable some opponents, so it would be a side choice at best.


Not sure if I'm missing something, but isn't the only way to cast two-drops on turn one with this deck Mox Opal? Are you saying you mulligan for Mox Opal?
Mox Opal & Springleaf Drum = 8 cards, so you're likely to get 2 mana sources on T1 about 76% of the time in your first 7. If you're on the draw, this % will be higher.
Ancient Tomb could increase this again.
I personally would only mull for a good start if my opponent is faster than we can be (storm, combo etc.), otherwise I'd approach mulling as per usual.


So I'm testing again...
Signal Pest is just terrible. Get out of my deck you fucktard!
Another card I'm looking at for the side is Humility. My thought is, by the time you can play it, you've already played your SFM, you then equip and smack them down via attrition, seeing as our deck is fairly threat dense, even though our topdecks are woefully shite. But yeah, haven't tested it much yet, so bear with me...

[Shawon]

Humility is pretty ballsy. It's probably a better way than Ensnaring Bridge to stop Sneak-Show absolutely cold because some of them run Ashen Rider.

Don't forget Arcbound Ravager becomes a 2/2 if you cast it post-Humility!

[slave]

Hmmm.... maybe Meekstone is a better option? Turn 1, vs a 4cmc 2W requirement.
I mean, all we need to do is move our equipment around, and their big creatures are still buggered.

[Shawon]

Tangle Wire is probably a better alternative to Meekstone.

[Etched]

Just how well are we positioned right now guys? I mean, we've got pretty good matchups against alot of the field, including Imperial Painter, which seems to be getting bigger. I would've thought that we would have gotten alot more attention after the top 8 by Anderson, but I guess not.

[Shawon]

Just how well are we positioned right now guys? I mean, we've got pretty good matchups against alot of the field, including Imperial Painter, which seems to be getting bigger. I would've thought that we would have gotten alot more attention after the top 8 by Anderson, but I guess not.

I would say its position is weaker than it was before, if you look at the DTB section. It's not so much as because True-Name Nemesis infiltrating the format, or even the splash damage of cards like Zealous Persecution meant to fight TNN, but mainly because of the rise of decks that don't care about TNN, which incidentally happen to be bad matchups, such as combo decks. Death & Taxes does care about TNN, but it's also a terrible matchup for us. Miracles is also coming back into the limelight. On the bright side, Jund is played less.

However, Affinity is still a formidable deck, one that you would play in a combo-light metagame since it has a good chance of beating fair decks. The reason it hasn't gotten that much attention is that not enough 'good' players play the deck.

[Etched]

I would say its position is weaker than it was before, if you look at the DTB section. It's not so much as because True-Name Nemesis infiltrating the format, or even the splash damage of cards like Zealous Persecution meant to fight TNN, but mainly because of the rise of decks that don't care about TNN, which incidentally happen to be bad matchups, such as combo decks. Death & Taxes does care about TNN, but it's also a terrible matchup for us. Miracles is also coming back into the limelight. On the bright side, Jund is played less.

However, Affinity is still a formidable deck, one that you would play in a combo-light metagame since it has a good chance of beating fair decks. The reason it hasn't gotten that much attention is that not enough 'good' players play the deck.

May I ask what it takes to be a "good" Affinity player? I assume it means knowing all the interactions/sequencing, making the right plays and knowing the meta, etc.

[Shawon]

May I ask what it takes to be a "good" Affinity player? I assume it means knowing all the interactions/sequencing, making the right plays and knowing the meta, etc.

That's one interpretation, but what I meant was not enough well-known Legacy players play the deck, otherwise you'd have a lot more proficient Legacy players confidently taking the deck to high-level tournaments as opposed to just playing the deck less seriously or not at all.

[slave]

Just how well are we positioned right now guys? I mean, we've got pretty good matchups against alot of the field, including Imperial Painter, which seems to be getting bigger. I would've thought that we would have gotten alot more attention after the top 8 by Anderson, but I guess not.
Those Imperial's are pretty expensive, and they're rare too.

To your first point;
Besides the obvious (we traditionally have no counter, no discard, almost every land is wasteland-fodder > which I think are the biggest reasons);
I think some of it could be to do with this deck having horrible topdecks. Perhaps the worst topdecks in all of legacy? :really:
I like the way this deck can land gargantuan amounts of damage quickly, but if a sweeper resolves, we can be in for a terrible pile of rubbish for quite a few turns until we get what we might find useful. Pernicious Deed for example.
Seeing how topdecks really matter when you get into the pointy end of a tourney, maybe this could be a reason why this deck doesn't get much love beyond the budget fanboys (like me)?
...or maybe it's the obvious?:laugh:

Honestly, I think of this deck as no less a glass-cannon than many combo decks.
Think of storm. Most versions of storm are crippled with a well-timed counter, as they're usually left with few cards in hand for a few turns, unable to do fuck all.
We're no different > we vomit our hand on the table and usually there's only 1 or 2 of them that could be seen as a threat. <COUNTER> FUCK!!
I tell ya - The number of times I've had a Plating/SFM countered to be left with nothing useful in hand, and only fuckin tallmen on the field. :mad:

[Draconicsteel]

Death and Taxes a terrible match-up? I'm inclined to disagree, Shawon. When I played in Chantilly, I played a few D&T decks, and the only game I lost was because of bad mulligan/bad keep. Otherwise, I felt entirely in control of every single game. I've never felt as powerful as when I went up against Death and Taxes. Maybe it was just the luck of the draw that day, but the opposition seemed very underwhelming.

Ensnaring Bridge, while not a game ender on the other side of the board, is not a good idea for our deck. Because Plating. And Ravager.

Also, I goldfished the Legacy build with Tangle Wire - I don't suggest it. Tangle Wire is AMAZING in the vintage version, but the vintage version is also an entirely different deck, solely because of one card: Skullclamp. Every time I had Tangle Wire in my hand, I wanted it to be something else. Granted, that was goldfishing and not playing an actual game, but still. Other cards have the better synergy, I think.

I would also be hesitant about Humility because of Champion, mainly, and potentially Master, if you run him (which I do). Champion is really the one card that a lot of decks are scared of, and I wouldn't want to lose that advantage.

On the Inkmoth Nexus vs. Ancient Tomb vs. Darksteel Citadel, I'm gonna go with Shawon on this one, and say Citadel. I've played with all three, and while I wasn't exactly disappointed in Inkmoth, I found that the "alternate" win con I thought I was packing in my deck wasn't really that. I was one infect short a lot, or they have the wasteland, or if it had been regular damage it would have been lethal, etc. And the in-constant Metalcraft is rough, too. Same with Ancient Den on the metalcraft, and it hurts even more when it gets Wastelanded. Citadel is much more consistent, adds to Metalcraft, can't be Wastelanded, and is a great target for Tezz, as Shawon pointed out. That being said, different decks will run any of the three, and neither of them are bad choices, but I prefer the Citadel, after having tried all three.

In response to Etched - I also am on the Stoneforge plan. I only run 2, but I really like it in the deck. Fetches up the Plating when you need it, and gives you access to stuff like Fire and Ice, Batterskull, Manriki-Gusari, Feast and Famine, etc. I currently run on Fire and Ice and one Manriki side.

[Shawon]

Admittedly, the D&T matchup is very difficult for me because I don't run any Masters. My main avenue of attack against D&T is striking with Etched Champion, but if they have Revoker, it's a huge roadblock because it's 2 power is enough to block and kill my Champion. The only surefire way I've ever beaten D&T is going value-Ravager on Etched Champion. I'm trying to run Manriki-Gusari and even Tower of the Magistrate to make the matchup better, but my work might be a lot easier if I just run Masters. I might do end up doing that.

[slave]

.....might be a lot easier if I just run Masters. I might do end up doing that.
Master of Etherium can be a house, but I've found it's also a massive magnet for removal of the exile kind in this matchup, and removal in every other matchup too.
I like 'em, but don't run them for this reason alone, as achieving 2U isn't really that hard.

I think Etched is probably the stronger option here given it'll have protection almost always. SFM grabs a sword and we swing...
Hell, a sword of light and shadow maybe?

[Shawon]

Oh yeah, Master does cost 3 mana, which isn't a sure thing to achieve when Death & Taxes can sometimes go Plan G: Griefing, and then lock you out from casting Master.

If my current tech of Tower + Manriki isn't enough, then I just might put 3 Dispatch in the sb instead of the Masters.

[Draconicsteel]

I use two Master and a playset of Champion and haven't been disappointed. Yeah master can get exiled which is why I only in two of him, but if he doesn't get responded to, then I usually win. He's just too much if a threat too ignore.


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[slave]

Oh yeah, Master does cost 3 mana, which isn't a sure thing to achieve when Death & Taxes can sometimes go Plan G: Griefing, and then lock you out from casting Master.

If my current tech of Tower + Manriki isn't enough, then I just might put 3 Dispatch in the sb instead of the Masters.
The conditional nature of dispatch is rarely a factor, but it still plays on my mind for some reason, compared to StP.

I've done a heap of testing with Darksteel, Inkmoth, Tomb > results and percentages are always conditional on how you shuffle and the rest of your list so I won't bother to bore you all with T1 chances of metalcraft etc.
Lesson learned;
Turn 1 plays are our goal, and Citadel is the best (obviously, like... *duh*)
Inkmoth felt a little win-more, a little more of an all-in feel, in what is already an all-in deck. Inkmoth was serviceable, but had a few weaknesses, namely copping creature removal and we lose a mana source, and needing us to sink mana into it constantly. If we're up against land-D, having the spare mana each turn for it will not always be straight forward...
I didn't really see a definite reason for Tomb unless we're playing Batterskull.
So after all those hands and mulligans etc., Citadel was the clear winner.
I'll be probably running a single Inkmoth, and 3 Citadel's, just for a bit of variation if little else.

[Draconicsteel]

Academy Ruins is another great one of land I think. Get back the crucial Plating or the one if equipment you run. I believe Tomb is mainly used for the Chalice plan, so if you aren't running Chalice, there's less of a reason to use Tomb.


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[Etched]

How many of you guys are just running straight Anderson's list? Which other lists have you guys been doing well with? I've got a somewhat big tourney coming up, and I'm trying to figure out which version to play against an unknown meta.

[Windmill]

Hi guys,

I'm running Merfolk in legacy. In my local meta, we usually get 16-20 people for each legacy tournament. Well, affinity is easily my worst match-up, even worse than Goblins. Usually there are 1-2 decks per tournament, and they absolutely wreck me. Can you please help me?

I'm going to dedicate 4 slots of SB hate to it this time. I'm trying to decide between 4 x Null Rod, or 4 x Energy Flux. Which is more horrific? Energy Flux hits swarms, but Null Rod lands faster. Keep in mind, I'll almost certainly lose the first game. So I'll need to win Game 2 and 3, and only get to start once. I'm also going to side in 3 Jittes, with the goal being to hit with it by T4.

Sorry to make you aid the enemy, but I'd very much appreciate your help, your deck is nasty.

[Shawon]

Energy Flux is probably the most effective hate against Affinity. Null Rod shuts off Aether Vial, and your Equipment if you run any, which I don't think you want. Also, Null Rod doesn't do much against fliers already Equipped.

Hurkyl's Recall is another good hate card, but you can't just rely on it alone. I got beat recently by Merfolk packing Recall and Manriki-Gusari, which is a good combination because Manriki-Gusari takes care of Plating and Recall curbs any attempt to alpha strike.

[Etched]

Did pretty badly in a local tourney recently, as I went up against alot of Delver decks, which my meta is filled with. Pondering running Chalice main to combat Delver/Miracles/Metagame.

[Etched]

What do you folks think? Trying out the Stoneforge package+Masters. Sideboard is dedicated to my specific meta, which is mostly Delver/Miracles, and quite a bit of Storm and Dredge which have been popping up lately.

4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Den
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Academy Ruins

4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
4 Vault Skirge
4 Etched Champion
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Master of Etherium

4 Thoughtcast

4 Cranial Plating
4 Mox Opal
3 Tezzeret Agent of Bolas
4 Springleaf Drum
1 Umezawa's Jitte

SB:
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Mindbreak Trap

[Climax]

Pretty short report of the Legacy Championship at GP Vienna and some notes to my list.
Played the following 60+15:


4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Vault Skirge
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Etched Champion
4 Master of Etherium

4 Springleaf Drum
4 Mox Opal
4 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast
3 Tezzeret Agent of Bolas

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Den
4 Vault of Whispers
1 Glimmervoid

SB: 4 Rest in Peace
SB: 4 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
SB: 3 Specter's Shroud

Normally I'm a combo player by heart but too less sleep led me to Affinity.
The only change was from Signal Pest to Master of Etherium. The reason is pretty simple: I wanted more threats than my opponents can handle.
Miracles are pretty much everywhere in Europe and Signal Pest forces you to overcommit which can not be the best plan against that deck.
Therefore it had to go.

The Shrouds in the board were a test. And the failed horribly. For the next time I will try Winter Orbs instead. You can play pretty much anything in that 3 slots.

The tournament went pretty well:

2:0 Canadian
2:1 Death&Taxes
2:1 BGW Junk
2:0 Canadian
2:0 Miracles
0:2 Elves (I conceeded to him so we come in 1st and 2nd cuz he was at 4: 0: 1 that point)

Everything was working out quite well, besides the Shrouds, so I will play it again in case of hangover or anything like that...

br

[Shawon]

Normally I'm a combo player by heart but too less sleep led me to Affinity.
The only change was from Signal Pest to Master of Etherium. The reason is pretty simple: I wanted more threats than my opponents can handle.
Miracles are pretty much everywhere in Europe and Signal Pest forces you to overcommit which can not be the best plan against that deck.
Therefore it had to go.

The Shrouds in the board were a test. And the failed horribly. For the next time I will try Winter Orbs instead. You can play pretty much anything in that 3 slots.

That's good reasoning against Miracles. Good job, by the way. I found Specter's Shroud to be mediore as well.


What do you folks think? Trying out the Stoneforge package+Masters. Sideboard is dedicated to my specific meta, which is mostly Delver/Miracles, and quite a bit of Storm and Dredge which have been popping up lately.

4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Den
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Academy Ruins

4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
4 Vault Skirge
4 Etched Champion
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Master of Etherium

4 Thoughtcast

4 Cranial Plating
4 Mox Opal
3 Tezzeret Agent of Bolas
4 Springleaf Drum
1 Umezawa's Jitte

SB:
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Mindbreak Trap

It's a nice start. I think if you're going to use Jitte MD, you need additional aggro like Signal Pest or Frogmite to make the option of windmilling Jitte on turn 2 more useful. I ran into many situations where I could get a turn 1 Jitte, but only Ornithopter on the table -_- If you insist on keeping the creature base as it is, I would advise you run Sword of Fire and Ice in Jitte's stead.

I think having one additional colored mana source is more important than having Ruins. I've found Paradise Mantle to be insane with SFM, but Glimmervoid is also acceptable. That 9th rainbow mana source is something you need.

[Shawon]

Earlier in March, I took a break from playing my Legacy Affinity list and played Modern Affinity for two weeks. Playing Modern Affinity opened my eyes to new insights and new ideas, and coming back into Legacy, I feel more compelled to continue innovating Affinity.

After porting my Legacy Affinity into Modern, I decided to take back a little bit of Modern with me and tried to make a direct port into Legacy. Also, I really wanted to play with Blood Moon and Whipflare considering in CT, where I live, I need to be able to confidently beat 12Post and Elves.

Red (or Grixis) Affinity

Mana
12 Artifact Lands
4 Drum
4 Opal
1 Glimmervoid
4 Inkmoth

Critters
8 Cheeri0s
4 Pest
4 Skirge
4 Ravager
3 Master
3 Overseer

4 Plating
2 Thoughtcast
2 Galvanic Blast
1 FLING

SB:
3 Blood Moon
3 Whipflare
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Karakas
3 Tezz
3 Flex

I learned a lot of things from playing Modern, too many to share right now before I go to sleep, so I might expound later. The craziest idea in that Red list that I've ever tried, aside from Fling LOL, is the 2 Thoughtcast seeing as how it's usually regarded as the best spell in Affinity, which to be honest, I don't agree with anymore. It's undoubtedly a good card, but I decided that I needed to make some room for other cards, such as keeping my creature/threat count to where it is or making room for the 3 burn spells.

After giving Red Affinity a spin, I wanted to revisit my Esper build with new eyes. I'll post it later, though, too tired :/

[BBG|Scott-Spain]

Earlier in March, I took a break from playing my Legacy Affinity list and played Modern Affinity for two weeks. Playing Modern Affinity opened my eyes to new insights and new ideas, and coming back into Legacy, I feel more compelled to continue innovating Affinity.

After porting my Legacy Affinity into Modern, I decided to take back a little bit of Modern with me and tried to make a direct port into Legacy. Also, I really wanted to play with Blood Moon and Whipflare considering in CT, where I live, I need to be able to confidently beat 12Post and Elves.

Red (or Grixis) Affinity

Mana
12 Artifact Lands
4 Drum
4 Opal
1 Glimmervoid
4 Inkmoth

Critters
8 Cheeri0s
4 Pest
4 Skirge
4 Ravager
3 Master
3 Overseer

4 Plating
2 Thoughtcast
2 Galvanic Blast
1 FLING

SB:
3 Blood Moon
3 Whipflare
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Karakas
3 Tezz
3 Flex

I learned a lot of things from playing Modern, too many to share right now before I go to sleep, so I might expound later. The craziest idea in that Red list that I've ever tried, aside from Fling LOL, is the 2 Thoughtcast seeing as how it's usually regarded as the best spell in Affinity, which to be honest, I don't agree with anymore. It's undoubtedly a good card, but I decided that I needed to make some room for other cards, such as keeping my creature/threat count to where it is or making room for the 3 burn spells.

After giving Red Affinity a spin, I wanted to revisit my Esper build with new eyes. I'll post it later, though, too tired :/

I'm going to give your list a shot in a little bit, especially since I don't like using Tomb (even though I acknowledge how darn good it is). I'm interested in seeing what else you have to say about this deck also.

[Draconicsteel]

I would advise against underestimating card advantage. It's the reason why in this deck Fire and Ice I think is better than Jitte.

Also, I tried a few Overseers after playing Vintage Affinity but found that for Legacy it was too slow and clunky. I was usually wishing they were something else. I think the reason they're good in vintage is because that deck generates a crapload of tokens, so even using Overseer once is massive. In Legacy we don't have that capability so the card is more lukewarm.

Also also, Galvanic Blast seems good, but honestly Dispatch is just better. This deck doesn't need burn to the face because it's already overwhelming aggressive most of the time.

That's my two cents at least. I'll be curious to see what you think after play testing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Shawon]

I would advise against underestimating card advantage. It's the reason why in this deck Fire and Ice I think is better than Jitte.

Also, I tried a few Overseers after playing Vintage Affinity but found that for Legacy it was too slow and clunky. I was usually wishing they were something else. I think the reason they're good in vintage is because that deck generates a crapload of tokens, so even using Overseer once is massive. In Legacy we don't have that capability so the card is more lukewarm.

Also also, Galvanic Blast seems good, but honestly Dispatch is just better. This deck doesn't need burn to the face because it's already overwhelming aggressive most of the time.

That's my two cents at least. I'll be curious to see what you think after play testing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Steel Overseer is a lot better if you're running Signal Pest + Ravager + Inkmoth. Ravager still uses the counters from Overseer when it dies and triggers Modular. It definitely does have its disadvantages since it can easily be taken out, but like Master, if left unchecked, it becomes a problem.

The main reason for using Galvanic Blast over Dispatch is simply the red splash for Blood Moon/Whipflare in the sb. However, I'm also working on a white build specifically aimed at using Dispatch MD; I'm trying to figure out what hate in :u::w::b: I can run in place of Moon/Whipflare. I'm thinking about trying Aven Mindcensor against Cloudpost lol, and Plague against Elves, as possible substitutes. Or, if I'm going back to running Darksteel Citadels, Armageddon would be in the sb.

[Draconicsteel]

I started thinking about Dispatch because Dark depths is popular in my area, but I found that Pithing Needle works just as well and is more versatile against more decks. So there's another option.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Shawon]

Forgot to mention, but I'm also using Dispatch because Reanimator is in my area.

[Draconicsteel]

Another reason why I love RiP. Shuts down that deck, too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[slave]

(Reanimator) Another reason why I love RiP.
I prefer Grafdiggers in Affinity.
Reason being, we don't need coloured mana > postboard you mull for RiP vs. Dredge/Reanimator and if you don't get a white source, what do you do?
It comes down on T1 when it matters. It's fodder for Tezz/Arc'y if you get multiple's.
And lastly, it's relevant against more than just graveyard decks, it's also useful against GSZ-types aswell.
.... Sure, Grafdiggers can be bounced, but you can also pop a mix of gravehate in the yard if it worries you, or run dispatch.


Just a question here guys and gals;
Why do people run Arcbound Ravager in their list, without the outlet of Disciple of the Vault?
.. I just think it's terrible to include one without the other. Am I wrong here?


I'm thinking of running Affinity next legacy night, given my pet deck dredge is facing some bloody tough gravehate lately.
I'd like some some advice;
On the sideboard especially please, bearing in mind D&T & Blue in general, is pretty big where I play right now.
:note: One of my SFM went walkabout last time I took Affinity out, so I only have 3.:mad:
Cabal Therapy is one of my favourite cards ever. I'm aware of the anti-synergy with Cage but it rarely matters as Cage just ruins graveyard/GSZ decks etc., and both being 1-cmc gives me flexibility to decide which to use on T1.
The only reason I have Pest in the list is Therapy, otherwise I'd probably swap them for Master... still might unless you guys know of a better option?
Therapy can be back-breaking with Tallmen > the ability to rip out multiples or bait out counter is just so useful > a really good therapy+flashback can be like gutting them right there on the table before we swing for big hits.

I'd like to fit in 2 or so Phyrexian Revoker, maybe even in the main, but I'm not sure what to cut > How useful are they, really?

PUNY ROBOTS
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Den
4 Vault of Whispers
3 Darksteel Citadel
1 Academy Ruins
4 Mox Opal
4 Springleaf Drum

4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
4 Vault Skirge
2 Signal Pest
4 Etched Champion
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

4 Thoughtcast
4 Dispatch

4 Cranial Plating
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

SIDEBOARD:
4 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Batterskull
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas


Cheers.

[Shawon]

So, are you saying that without Disciple, it's terrible to include Ravager in the deck? C'mon, you don't really believe that, do you? Ravager is hands down the best creature in Affinity, because of its inherent synergy and its sheer power to win games on its own. Disciple is several steps down the hierarchy, because it's only good when you have one card... which is Ravager.

One of the reasons why I've been going back to using Masters is D&T, because it gives you at least one creature that doesn't care if your opponent gets two Jitte counters. Also, Revoker is the card Affinity players want to see least in games against D&T, and it can put a damper on your plan to go all-in on Plating + Champ.

[slave]

So, are you saying that without Disciple, it's terrible to include Ravager in the deck? C'mon, you don't really believe that, do you? Ravager is hands down the best creature in Affinity, because of its inherent synergy and its sheer power to win games on its own. Disciple is several steps down the hierarchy, because it's only good when you have one card... which is Ravager..
Maybe *terrible* is too strong a word.
I would argue it's certainly not getting the most from the card.

Look at what it does;
You can instantly kill any of your artifacts to pump up your Ravager for combat tricks, or to try and save it from red removal, which you can potentially be baited into doing. Or you can sac it for it's counters to move somewhere else, once again during combat or in response to removal. Sure there may be more ways to use it, but these are the ones I think are most relevant.
Beyond that it's just a beater with no evasion, that requires we go backwards on the boardstate to make it worth anything. This last part is the important bit.

To me, the whole point of Disciple, is having an alternate win-con in the deck.
Say an opponent has Moat, Ensnaring Bridge, Maze of Ith etc. or is just in a better position than you are.
When you're in a losing position, ravager without Disciple often doesn't help you turn it around, and does jack-shit when an opponent can stop you landing combat damage.
Having Disciple in there aswell, means we can just sac everything to somehow snatch victory in these situations. > it also gives us a way to drop an opponents life points after a combat phase to possibly snatch victory, instead of just waiting for the next turn, allowing us to play more aggressively.

Stoneforge has taken this slot in the current builds with Ravager to be fair, but still > Ravager doesn't seem that great to me without it.


Anyway;
Considering D&T matchups, you say you're getting Master back in. I like this. Just a question I think needs serious thought > have you guys considered True-Name Nemesis?
I would've thought having 8 Champions would be pretty useful with Stoneforge Mystic fetching Plating. :cool:

[AggroSteve]

Maybe *terrible* is too strong a word.


To me, the whole point of Disciple, is having an alternate win-con in the deck.
Say an opponent has Moat, Ensnaring Bridge, Maze of Ith etc. or is just in a better position than you are.
When you're in a losing position, ravager without Disciple often doesn't help you turn it around, and does jack-shit when an opponent can stop you landing combat damage.
Having Disciple in there aswell, means we can just sac everything to somehow snatch victory in these situations. > it also gives us a way to drop an opponents life points after a combat phase to possibly snatch victory, instead of just waiting for the next turn, allowing us to play more aggressively.

Stoneforge has taken this slot in the current builds with Ravager to be fair, but still > Ravager doesn't seem that great to me without it.


Anyway;
Considering D&T matchups, you say you're getting Master back in. I like this. Just a question I think needs serious thought > have you guys considered True-Name Nemesis?
I would've thought having 8 Champions would be pretty useful with Stoneforge Mystic fetching Plating. :cool:

the thing about ravager + disciple as an altenate wincondition may be true, but the way you describe it it is already covered by a single card, and not a 2-card-semi-combo, and this in a way that is way more effective than ravager + disciple

this card is called tezzeret, agent of bolas

disciple has no more place in this deck as his role is fullfilled by a more potent card now, and this without sacrificing your whole boardposition a la "all-in"

arcbound is still one of the best if not the best creature in the deck, and works extremely well together with etched champion, even without a plating on board

The idea of TNN is a nice one though, but i would never run a full playset of it, because its manacost is very restrictive, sometimes it is even hard to cast a master of etherium, which costs only one blue mana, but TNN costs 2 blue mana
i would test TNN as a 2-off, and adjust the manabase accordingly for more blue sources or even adding rainbow lands (which i am not that much a fan of, because it slows down the deck a bit)

The downside of TNN is that it works only well with a plating, not with a ravager on board as well, and is killed by the same hate a lot of our other creatures die, namely golgari charm and zealous persecution

[slave]

the thing about ravager + disciple as an altenate wincondition may be true, but the way you describe it it is already covered by a single card, and not a 2-card-semi-combo, and this in a way that is way more effective than ravager + disciple
this card is called tezzeret, agent of bolas
disciple has no more place in this deck as his role is fullfilled by a more potent card now, and this without sacrificing your whole boardposition a la "all-in"

The idea of TNN is a nice one though, but i would never run a full playset of it, because its manacost is very restrictive.
The downside of TNN is that it works only well with a plating, not with a ravager on board as well, and is killed by the same hate a lot of our other creatures die, namely golgari charm and zealous persecution

A couple of things I agree with, a few I don't. Just so you get me, I'm only suggesting you would sac everything to Ravager/Disciple once it's actually gonna win you the game.
Tezz is a good alternate win-con, and it's a great card. But how often does anyone actually get to perform this little alternate win-con? :wink: Yeah, exactly...
I've only ever got it to work in a win-more context, when I had my opponent on the back foot and they were unable to stop me. If anyone here routinely wins this way when you're in a losing position, feel free to argue with me, as when I'm losing I feel the default play with Tezz is the -1 on a Darksteel Citadel/useless artefact.

The reason Disciple is useful here, is that if your opponent lands a game-ending beater like Emrakul, on T3 via Show/Sneak etc., you now have a way to inflict damage via attacking and instantly equipping Plating to your unblocked attacker, then sac your entire board to ravager and disciple. You may not have your opponent within reach, but sometimes you will > but at least you have a chance > Tezz isn't likely to change the outcome here at all, even if you have been able to play it.
And Disciple works when an opponent drops artifacts too, say your opponent is playing Storm > I've used the Disciple on T1, Ravager on T2 in the past and simply sacked when his fetches, Ad Nauseum's, Probe's, Petals etc. all got him within reach. Nothing quite like killing storm on their business turn at instant speed without needing counter. Something that Tezz is way too slow to do.

But;
Tezz + Disciple seems a little stronger.
Lets say you have 2 or 3 Tezz in the list and a similar number of Disciple. An average T1 should have you with 4 to 5 perms on the board, and really good one with 6 or 7. In the past I've had Tezz on the board by T2 on occasion.
Anyway, if we have a perfect storm of a Tezz ready for his -4, with Disciple & Ravager on the board aswell, you should be able to hit your opponent for upwards of 7 life with Tezz, and then Ravager/Disciple for a similar number all without even attacking. You see why I'm talking up Disciple?
Sure, Disciple has con's too > these days I don't think it's mainboard material, but from the side maybe?


I stopped playing with Ravager's a while ago and sold them > I found them to be removal bait and rarely got them to work on a common basis. Maybe it's just where I play?
In regards to TNN, I agree with you.
Tested the bugger last night for a while before I left > it's a two-of at most, but I might try one for starters.
I'm not happy with the manabase either. I'm gonna try a Glimmervoid or two, probablt a Mantle and see how I go.

Another idea I'm working with, is going for a more fearless approach postboard against the deck where counter doesn't matter so much.
Thopter Foundry & Sword of the Meek combo. I'm not sure it's gonna be viable, but I thought I'd give it a go, given we're running SFM & Tezz to potentially find them and it's not gonna be expected either, so cards like Meddling Mage, Cabal Therapy etc. will no doubt whiff trying to prevent it.
Anyone ever tried this?

[AggroSteve]

now i get what you are pointing at.

sadly every occasion you described is an extremely rare situation. Of course rare situations happen, but the overall usefullness of disciple is not as good as the usefullness of other cards.

you might be right on the point that disciple is "faster" than tezzeret, yet for the kill you need twice the amount of permanents/artifacts than with tezzeret practically going all in even before you might be able to "go off" or be even slower than with tezzeret because you lack the number of artifacts and still have to attack and then sac to kill the opponent.

on the thing of tezzeret + disciple + ravager
test it! it sounds intresting, yet in my opinion it is a bit to much.
i consider tezzeret, also disciple as a "Plan B" winroute in general (in some matchups this is the more effective one, like against miracles, where disciple + ravager would still suck but tezzeret wins alone).
for disciple and tezzeret not being part of the regular play of an affinity deck (speaking of "Plan A" the beatdown-aggro plan / "kill as fast as possible with attacking-plan") i would not want to dedicate to many Maindeck slots to a Plan B that would dilute the one and only real strength of this deck.

Still this is just my opinion, forged from my expierience with the deck, that reaches back to Mirrodin times (when the deck was first designed)
everyone obviously wants to give his pet-deck for instance his own spin and personalization, which is good, specially for this deck as it makes improvements and adjustments to the meta possible

so, once you tried your configuration of Tezzeret + disciple i am very curious to hear about it (just in my opinion it won't be very strong, but please prove me wrong), and if possible differentiate between matchups

EDIT: forgot about thopter foundry + sword of the meek

has been tried out a long time ago, as additional sac outlet, like ravager, i think when tezzeret was not yet printed. the combo was very slow, but was never used as 4-off or the deck was never build around the combo.
what i want to say is that this combo might give you an edge in controll matchups like miracles or whatever, but otherwise is horrible in a fast aggro deck (In My Opinion)

[BBG|Scott-Spain]

Figured I would post a deck that showed up on the dailies. Haven't seen one on there in a while, so I thought I would post it over here...

MGatica (3-1)
Legacy Daily #6975351 on 04/15/2014

4 Ancient Den
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Glimmervoid
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers

4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Etched Champion
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest
4 Vault Skirge

4 Cranial Plating
4 Mox Opal
4 Springleaf Drum
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Thoughtcast

Sideboard
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Mindbreak Trap
4 Rest in Peace


Pretty standard based on recent conversations.

[Shawon]

So it's basically Drew Levin's list with a one-card difference. What was the point of posting this?

I don't know why people keep referencing Drew Levin's Affinity list as some gold standard, when it's actually pretty suboptimal and outdated.

Among other news, I'm liking MD Dispatch a lot now, to the point where I'm considering running four. It makes my matchup against any Reanimator build more comfortable since I don't have to rely on drawing Cages, and furthermore, it makes tempo very easy because most of their gameplan is spent reacting to yours, and removing one of their few threats sets them back a lot. The only downside I have yet to experience, yet I predict would happen against MUD, is that Chalice@1 would be pretty brutal against me.

[slave]

Among other news, I'm liking MD Dispatch a lot now, to the point where I'm considering running four. It makes my matchup against any Reanimator build more comfortable since I don't have to rely on drawing Cages, and furthermore, it makes tempo very easy because most of their gameplan is spent reacting to yours, and removing one of their few threats sets them back a lot. The only downside I have yet to experience, yet I predict would happen against MUD, is that Chalice@1 would be pretty brutal against me.
Dispatch is great. I can't see a reason not to include some in the main. Simply paving a way to get hits through is reason enough.

Chalice sucks against most decks to be fair, but why is it such a big deal @1?
Besides sideboard options, the only maindeck stuff @1, is Springleaf Drum & Dispatch. If my opponent played Chalice @1 I'd giggle, cos they could do so much more damage @0 for T1 on the play, whilst we're on the draw.

Considering the deck above;
Signal Pest only makes sense to me if you're using it as a sac target with Cabal Therapy. Otherwise it's rubbish.

[Shawon]

Dispatch is great. I can't see a reason not to include some in the main. Simply paving a way to get hits through is reason enough.

Moreover, Dispatch's an answer against Marit Lage. It's also great at "dispatching" Veteran Explorer & Wurmcoil Engine without any blowback.


Chalice sucks against most decks to be fair, but why is it such a big deal @1?
Besides sideboard options, the only maindeck stuff @1, is Springleaf Drum & Dispatch. If my opponent played Chalice @1 I'd giggle, cos they could do so much more damage @0 for T1 on the play, whilst we're on the draw.

Still, if the MUD player knows that your answers to their big creatures is a 1cc removal, using Chalice to shut off what's probably your only out is very significant.


Considering the deck above;
Signal Pest only makes sense to me if you're using it as a sac target with Cabal Therapy. Otherwise it's rubbish.

I flip-flop between two different UWB Affinity lists, one containing in a 4 land slot Inkmoth Nexus and the other containing Darksteel Citadel instead. In the Nexus version, Signal Pest is imperative to have because quite often if you try to kill with Infect on turn 3, Signal Pest often helps you kill for the exact damage.

[Aesir]

Hi guys. Been playing Affinity for a few months, so I thought I'd register and take part in the discussion. I play a lot of legacy, and go to small and big local legacy events from time to time, and occasionally larger scale ones. I'm looking forward to discussing the deck. :smile:

[Shawon]

Hi guys. Been playing Affinity for a few months, so I thought I'd register and take part in the discussion. I play a lot of legacy, and go to small and big local legacy events from time to time, and occasionally larger scale ones. I'm looking forward to discussing the deck. :smile:

Welcome. Please make sure to visit the site rules (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?7455-Site-Rules-for-MTS) as a guide.

[Aesir]

On the matter of sideboarding v Sneak and Show, what do you guys bring in? I've been bringing in 3 Pierce, and taking out Tezz. I've heard arguments for Chalice, which I disagree with, as I don't believe it doesn't do enough. Shutting off their cantrips is nice, but they can easily Snt/Sneak in a fatty and win. Thoughts?

[Climax]

It would help if you can give us your list first.
But yes. I would bring in the Chalices.

[Aesir]

It would help if you can give us your list first.
But yes. I would bring in the Chalices.

I'm messing around with Anderson's list at the moment. I'm sure you're all familiar with it, but here it is for reference: http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=61227

[slave]

On the matter of sideboarding v Sneak and Show, what do you guys bring in?
I've been thinking my side a lot. We have a deck that routinely gets two mana on turn 1.

What about Leonin Arbiter?
For this exact matchup, and pretty much any mana-greedy deck that runs heavy fetches, or a suite of tutors, that is just way too quick for us to bonk on the head.
If you can land it on T1 and all they have in hand is fetches and no free counter, you've effectively locked them out of playing magic until they find a way to remove it or get two lands on board.
Even with two lands, getting to more than that will be slower.
It's a creature, so we can use it to bonk with too.

Of course, Mindlock Orb can just lock a game up for some opposition, but it's just too slow to help us.

[Aesir]

Hi guys. Been testing some games against various decks, and did pretty well. The deck can be very resilient and good. :smile: Anyways, developing a new list:

4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
2 Ancient Den
2 Glimmervoid
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Academy Ruins

4 Mox Opal
3 Springleaf Drum
4 Cranial Plating
4 Chalice of the Void

4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Vault Skirge
4 Etched Champion
4 Ornithopter
3 Master of Etherium
2 Ethersworn Canonist

3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Thoughtcast

SB:
4 Rest in Peace
3 Duress
3 Spell Pierce
2 Pithing Needle
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Mindbreak Trap

This deck is built to perform effectively against my meta. Storm, Delver, Stoneblade, and other decks are part of it. Chalice and Canonist main do well against Storm and Delver/Blade, while Master is a threat good against Blade decks and DNT, where it is big enough to block/kill their threats and dodge Jitte. Sideboard covers other decks and helps improve matchups. Thoughts?

[BBG|Scott-Spain]

So it's basically Drew Levin's list with a one-card difference. What was the point of posting this?

I don't know why people keep referencing Drew Levin's Affinity list as some gold standard, when it's actually pretty suboptimal and outdated.

Among other news, I'm liking MD Dispatch a lot now, to the point where I'm considering running four. It makes my matchup against any Reanimator build more comfortable since I don't have to rely on drawing Cages, and furthermore, it makes tempo very easy because most of their gameplan is spent reacting to yours, and removing one of their few threats sets them back a lot. The only downside I have yet to experience, yet I predict would happen against MUD, is that Chalice@1 would be pretty brutal against me.

I brought it up because that variation of the deck is still getting exposure, which sort of surprised me. Whether or not it's optimal is a different issue.

[Shawon]

^ Fair enough.

I've been tweaking both my Affinity lists (one using Inkmoth Nexus in a 4 land slot, the other Darksteel Citadel; I also have another list with 4 Ancient Tomb) as of late. My Darksteel list is still being revamped, but after making a recent change to up both Dispatch and Master of Etherium to 4-ofs, I feel that my MD for the Inkmoth variant is almost perfect. The only three slots that I feel can be changed are the 3 Steel Overseers, but I think Overseer is pretty awesome with Inkmoths and Signal Pest in the deck.

Mana
12 Artifact Lands
4 Opal
4 Drum
4 Inkmoth
1 Glimmervoid

Critters
8 0's
4 Pest
4 Skirge
4 Ravager
4 Master
3 Overseer

Everything Else
4 Plating
4 Dispatch

SB (Incomplete)
4 Tezz
4 Revoker
2 Canonist
2 Cage
1 Karakas

Here are some main points about my list that I want to bring home:

1. Zero Thoughtcast - Until recently, I never understood why people ever wanted to cut Thoughtcast from the deck. It's a spell that draws 2 cards for one mana. Why would anyone playing Affinity NOT run the card? Well, after gaining some brief perspective from playing Modern and applying it to my Legacy experience, I can tell you why, with good reason! For one, combo is fast, and you don't have time to cast Thoughtcast against fast combo decks like Storm or Reanimator, or even Sneak-Show. Another reason, in the grand scheme of your matchups, drawing two cards for one mana may be what you always want, but it's not what you need. I need 4 Dispatch and 4 Master of Etherium more than I need 3 of each and 3 Thoughtcast. The goal of Affinity, at least with my version, is to quickly set up a threatening board position. While Thoughtcast aids this purpose, having more redundancy of threats actually completes this purpose. Despite Thoughtcast being very cheap, casting it on turns 1-2 is less appealing than landing a threat that pressures the opponent to react.

2. Inkmoth Nexus is better than either Darksteel Citadel or Ancient Tomb - I've expressed my love for Inkmoth Nexus before. Honestly, you need a strong excuse not to run a land that can directly win you the game, even faster than its predecessors Blinkmoth Nexus or Mishra's Factory. Yes, Wasteland can kill Inkmoth, and Rishadan Port can prevent you from attacking with it, but the rewards greatly outweigh the risks. With Arcbound Ravager, Signal Pest, and Steel Overseer in the deck, the deck can consistently get Inkmoth large enough to kill with Infect.

3. 4 Dispatch - The change to running Dispatch instead of Galvanic Blast was losing to Reanimator due to not drawing my gy hate fast enough or losing to the deck's alternate enable Show and Tell. I wanted Dispatch because I thought that having access to Dispatch MD gave me a higher change of winning game 1, not enough to make game 1 favorable, but it at least made it easier not to just depend on winning two straight post-board games every time I get paired against Reanimator. Another matchup that warranted the change to Dispatch was Death & Taxes, because I need ways to get rid of Phyrexian Revoker, which is hands down the most annoying card Death & Taxes runs against us, and they run 4. In general, having spot removal helps this deck a lot, because in Legacy the versatility of being able to clear the board for attacks or simply stopping a creature from comboing out (e.g. Painter's Servant) is something I feel Affinity needs.

4. 4 Master of Etherium, 0 Etched Champion - The choice of Master of Etherium over Etched Champion is a concession to making the deck's offensive raw power explode. Going for Etched Champion + Plating (or even Ravager + Champ) is too slow nowadays.

Looking forward, the three MD slots that could be played with are the three Overseers. Perhaps I could fit in Stoneforge Mystic again, with some mix between them and Etched Champions. But like I said, Steel Overseer is nuts with Arcbound Ravager, since it not only pumps Ravager, but it gives Ravager more +1 counters to distribute off its Modular trigger should it die, which is amazing if you also have Inkmoth Nexus. Adding a counter to both Inkmoth Nexus and Arcbound Ravager alone, can potentially add at least 3 counters to Inkmoth Nexus if you activate Modular targeting Nexus.

[Final Fortune]

Cutting Thoughtcast and playing Master of Etherium, I thought I was reading my own post for a second.

I'm pretty sure Dispatch is a waste of time, you're not going to win the Reanimator match up with Dispatch, you're not going to win the Reanimator match up with Rest in Peace and you're basically not going to win the Reanimator match up at all so unless Dispatch serves a purpose in the aggro-control match up, which is the match up you're playing Affinity for in the 1st place, then you're just weakening your good match ups and making your deck less consistent. I'd sooner play Galvanic Blast because it contributes to the aggro-strategy and Rest in Place is replaceable in the SB by Relic of Progenitus anyway.

You're probably better off with Mystics or Champions than Overseer because you're basically all in on Plating and Ravager anyway.

I think Tezzeret is terrible vs any deck that plays Islands unless you're playing Cabal therapy some where in your 75, if you can't force him thru' then Disciple of the Vault is the better combo kill. I don't think I could play Affinity without Cabal Therapy for that matter, that card is too important vs any deck that has instant speed removal.

[Aesir]

Do any of you guys run a couple pieces of equipment without stoneforge? I feel like a Sword/Jitte could help drastically in a few matchups. I feel like it's not consistent enough, but I'd rather not run the Mystic package, as I don't like it in Affinity.

[Shawon]

Sword of Fire/Ice is pretty decent right now with TNN in the format, but without Stoneforge Mystic, it's always going to cost 5 mana to cast it and equip a creature the same turn, so you have to consider that. Jitte is good since you can cast it on turn 1 off of land + Opal + 0 cc, and just sometimes win games off it alone. I couldn't tell you which equipment you should run without SFM, because I think if you're going to run any extra Equipment, you're only going to afford to run 1 copy since you don't want to run too many noncreatures in the deck, and then you might as well run SFM if you have 1-ofs Equipments to increase your consistency to find them.

I wish Chariot of Victory was one mana cheaper. Sigh.

[Dwell]

Hi guys. Been testing some games against various decks, and did pretty well. The deck can be very resilient and good. :smile: Anyways, developing a new list:

4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
2 Ancient Den
2 Glimmervoid
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Academy Ruins

4 Mox Opal
3 Springleaf Drum
4 Cranial Plating
4 Chalice of the Void

4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Vault Skirge
4 Etched Champion
4 Ornithopter
3 Master of Etherium
2 Ethersworn Canonist

3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Thoughtcast

SB:
4 Rest in Peace
3 Duress
3 Spell Pierce
2 Pithing Needle
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Mindbreak Trap

This deck is built to perform effectively against my meta. Storm, Delver, Stoneblade, and other decks are part of it. Chalice and Canonist main do well against Storm and Delver/Blade, while Master is a threat good against Blade decks and DNT, where it is big enough to block/kill their threats and dodge Jitte. Sideboard covers other decks and helps improve matchups. Thoughts?

I've been anything something similar to this recently. The main deck chalice is wonderful vs such a variety of decks. I'm curious, how do you do deal with the post-board set up. It seems chalice would interfere with the Spell pierce and duress. Do you take it out? I'd assume that it's relevant against the same decks as those. How to find find that balance is workin' out.

Not to mention more Revokers in the side seems like a better option then pithing needle

[Aesir]

I've been anything something similar to this recently. The main deck chalice is wonderful vs such a variety of decks. I'm curious, how do you do deal with the post-board set up. It seems chalice would interfere with the Spell pierce and duress. Do you take it out? I'd assume that it's relevant against the same decks as those. How to find find that balance is workin' out.

Not to mention more Revokers in the side seems like a better option then pithing needle

This was a rough draft to be perfectly honest. I've been testing different lists and ideas, in the effort to make a set list I can play. I'm still tweaking, but after testing Chalice a bit more, I don't like it main, as it interferes with too many of the sideboard cards, which forces me to alter the board in order to make it more effective. As I take this deck to larger events, I'll need a good all-rounder Affinity list, so I'll post that when I develop it fully.

[Draconicsteel]

On Thoughtcast: I still don't see it. I don't look at Thoughtcast as two cards for one mana, I look at Thoughtcast as two extra threats for one mana. You yourself stated how you wanted to clog the board with threats. Well, Thoughtcast puts them in your hand to get them there. Insane card advantage like that in an aggro deck is nuts. Thoughtcast has won me so many games I can't keep track of them. Every time I resolve one, my opponent gets a little disappointed. Can you imagine drawing two Ravagers? Or a Ravager and a Plating? Or a Champion and . . . anything? Honestly, I still think Thoughtcast is one of the best cards in the deck. Also, it's hard to argue "you need more threats" when you play too many mana sources. 25 is waaaay too much. I run 15 lands, 4 Opal, and 3 Drum, and still sometimes think that's too much. If you want your deck to be more threat-heavy, I'd recommend skimming some land first, before you resort to Thoughtcast.

Inkmoth: I played around with it before. I think this card is more preference, so I can understand why you would want to use it. It's also probably determined by your meta. I think there are a lot of Wastelands in my area, so playing Inkmoth is almost a hindrance. It feels much better to play Citadel, and know that, if nothing else, eventually I can make a 5/5 beater that can only be responded to with Swords. Also, I hate Overseer in Legacy. I tried it out VERY briefly, and found that every time it was in my hand, I wanted it to be something else. The Legacy version is faster than Modern, and doesn't spit out the absolute swarm that Vintage does, so I don't the card really belongs here.

Dispatch: I can understand your desire for removal. I've played around with Dispatch several times, and opted on taking it out every time. My problem is that other sideboard options (because I don't think it's quite main-boardable) are simply more versatile. I main two Revokers, and side two Pithing Needles, the Needles because I need something for Marit Lage. I had originally tried Dispatch over Needle, but Needle is simply more versatile. All the things that Dispatch is good for, I already have options - I love RiP against any graveyard deck, and, likewise, RiP nerfs a Goyf and a Deathrite. On one card. I just thought Dispatch was too narrow.

Etched Champion: aside from Thoughtcast, this might be my biggest problem with this list. The decks that Affinity is designed to beat will cringe and die before Champion. Death and Taxes, BUG, Jund, etc., - really, any fair deck - can't do anything against it. Unless you saw the card too late in the game, Champion will get there for you. I used to only run two of Champion, but most of my friends at my game store who play fair decks have told me that Champion is the only thing they're really scared of. That's coming from the other side of the table. Everything else they can deal with. Plating, Ravager, Master, they don't care about those cards. Master dies to all of the best removal in the format, but Champion does not. Don't get me wrong, I still like Master - I play two of him myself - but you can't really justify playing that over Champion. Champion is simply the better card.

[Aesir]

Finally settled on a build; been playing the list below to good success.

12 Artifact Lands
3 Tomb
3 Glimmervoid

8 Cheeri0s
4 Ravager
4 Champion
4 Vault Skirge
2 Master
2 Sculler

4 Plating
4 Drum
4 Mopal
2 Tezz
4 Thoughtcast
1 Jitte

SB:
3 Canonist
3 Revoker
3 Spell Pierce
2 Rest in Peace
2 Grafdigger’s Cage
2 Tezz

The list has been doing very well so far. New cards (for me) I have been testing are Thoughtcast and Tidehollow Sculler. Thoughtcast provides insane card advantage, and really helps drop threats as the previous post states. I was skeptical about Sculler at first, but I've come to love it. It is disruption that comes with a 2/2 beater, and it's an artifact. I've played numerous games against a wide field of established legacy decks, and have done quite well against them. Still having some problems with Sneak and Show, though. Anyways, any thoughts, comments about the list?

[Dwell]

The list has been doing very well so far. New cards (for me) I have been testing are Thoughtcast and Tidehollow Sculler. Thoughtcast provides insane card advantage, and really helps drop threats as the previous post states. I was skeptical about Sculler at first, but I've come to love it. It is disruption that comes with a 2/2 beater, and it's an artifact. I've played numerous games against a wide field of established legacy decks, and have done quite well against them. Still having some problems with Sneak and Show, though. Anyways, any thoughts, comments about the list?

I'm not a fan of sculler. It's a strong card indeed, but the WB is too inconsistent to have open on turn 2. Playing it any later seems weak to me, especially vs combo decks like S&T. I'm trying out Diabolic Edict in the side right now, along with the chalice maindeck. Testing is going well so far.

I'm also thinking whip flare. The red might be a stretch though. It's just so good vs things like elves, D&T, esper stoneblade even.

[Aesir]

I'm not a fan of sculler. It's a strong card indeed, but the WB is too inconsistent to have open on turn 2. Playing it any later seems weak to me, especially vs combo decks like S&T. I'm trying out Diabolic Edict in the side right now, along with the chalice maindeck. Testing is going well so far.

I'm also thinking whip flare. The red might be a stretch though. It's just so good vs things like elves, D&T, esper stoneblade even.

I didn't like it at first, but after extensive testing, I grew quite fond of it. The glimmmervoids in the deck help cast it a little more consistently, and I've even been able to get it out T1 with a 0, Mopal, and artifact lands. Aside from that, do you mind posting your list?

[Draconicsteel]

As an alternative to Whip Flare, I would recommend Zealous Persecution. I run three side right now. It has the same cost problem as Sculler, but if you're in those colors anyway, it's less of a stretch than the red. And still tears apart decks like Elves and such.

2 main Sculler is interesting. I ran some side for awhile and kind of liked it, though I'm not currently running it. I do run two Revoker main, however - of the situations where you might have had it in hand, which card do you think would have been more useful? I feel like Revoker might be more versatile in the long run, but Sculler helps the first game against poor match-ups, like combo, while not taking away from the deck's aggressiveness. I've really liked the Revoker main, but I'm curious to see which one you think might be better. Maybe I'll try to run some Scullers main for a bit and see what I like better, too.

[Dwell]

As an alternative to Whip Flare, I would recommend Zealous Persecution. I run three side right now. It has the same cost problem as Sculler, but if you're in those colors anyway, it's less of a stretch than the red. And still tears apart decks like Elves and such.

2 main Sculler is interesting. I ran some side for awhile and kind of liked it, though I'm not currently running it. I do run two Revoker main, however - of the situations where you might have had it in hand, which card do you think would have been more useful? I feel like Revoker might be more versatile in the long run, but Sculler helps the first game against poor match-ups, like combo, while not taking away from the deck's aggressiveness. I've really liked the Revoker main, but I'm curious to see which one you think might be better. Maybe I'll try to run some Scullers main for a bit and see what I like better, too.

I prefer Whipflare because it kills things like SFM, Deathrite, and zombie tokens.
I Really like revoker main, but its primarily a meta choice. I'm playing for a mox tomorrow, and the meta is going to have D&T and miracles for sure.

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Vault of Whispers
3 Ancient Den
2 Glimmer Void
1 Academy Ruins
4 Mox Opal

3 Springleaf drum
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Ornithopter
2 Memnite
4 Vault Skirge
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Etched Champion
2 Master of Etherium

SB
4 Rest in Peace
2 Whipflare
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Pithing Needle
4 Ethersworn Cannonist

That's my current list. However I have until tomorrow morning to decide on it. I think I may cut a master for a 4th champion, I hear plenty of talk about folk borrowing burn lists. I run 6 Cherrios just to help get mox online/drum. I was on 4 before hand, but their just dead draws late game.

I was thinking of cutting a Cannonist from the SB, because with the chalice main and 3 I feel that gives me enough combo hate.
Then again, you can never have too much combo hate.

[Minkkiq]

Hello

Played Affinity today in a 20-man tournament that had UG Sea and Tundra for prizes. I was completely bored in Nic Fit and Delver variants and wanted to return to my roots and picked up my first deck in Legacy with the help of a friend. It was about three years ago that I last played this deck and pretty much copypasted the same deck I had used that time. I was pretty sure there'd be little hate towards my deck and lots of combos so I tuned my sideboard with that in mind. Slept three hours before the tournament, ate a poor breakfast and of course had stomach-aches later in the day due to shitty kebabmeal. Swan Song felt better than Annul in paper, but sadly I didn't get to use it properly and lost finals because I sided wrong. Zealous Persecution was a very good choice but... messed it up too in the finals. Here's the list and some short notes on games:

4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Ancient Den
1 Glimmervoid
1 Blinkmoth Nexus

4 Ornithopter
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Etched Champion
4 Vault Skirge
4 Frogmite
3 Master of Etherium
2 Ethersworn Canonist

4 Mox Opal
4 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast
3 Springleaf Drum
3 Tezzeret, AoB

Sideboard

4 Rest in Peace
3 Zealous Persecution
3 Swan Song
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Ethersworn Canonist


Wanted to play 4 Masters but didn't get a fourth one in short notice. Mindbreaks were useless today. Swan Songs trapped me. I am still though a keen believer that it is better than Annul in most cases. S&T just wins if it resolves. Fourth Tezzeret might be good. Canonists were pretty irrelevant stall-bears most of the time.


Match 1 Mud? Stax?

I wasn't sure what my opponent played actually, but I saw Tangle Wire, Trinispheres, Chalice and Smokestack. Nothing really happened in these games. He tried to stall me and I patiently smacked him down.

1-0 (2-0)


Match 2 Reanimator

I put down Master and Skirge followed by Cranial. Almost lost the first game due to miscalculations. Thought I had lethals when I attacked with both of them and attached Cranial as an instant. Well he survived and I cringed. I was able to win through animated Angel of Despair and S&T:ed Elesh Norn with Master and Etched Champ. Second game he mulliganed and didn't get his pieces in time even after several draw spells.

2-0 (4-0)


Match 3 BUG

First game was pretty even. I played Frogmites, Ravagers and Skirges, he responded with 3 Goyfs, Delver and DShaman. We swinged at each other until I yoloed in when he had 2 cards in hand (other one was revealed for delver as Hymn), 10 life and I was at 4. He didn't have Decay so the second Skirge finished the deal. Second game he played two Goyfs and Dshaman. I responded with RiP and after a short while beated him down with plated Skirge. I was very lucky to evade Decays.

3-0 (6-0)


Match 4 Burn

First game too fast too furious. Second game he had Smash to Smithereens to my Cranial and I died to some burns later on even though I had 3 Canonists, two Skirges in play and gained 9 life in one swing. Third I had my ravagers to counter his Price of Progress and after he had to spend all his resources to remove my 6/6 Skirge the game was over.

4-0 (8-1)


Game 5 D&T

ID. Too tired and I lost when we played for fun. Funny thing was that in both games he had 1-2 life and I had 30-50+ when he stabilized.


Top8

Game 1 BUG (different guy)

I don't remember anymore. Destroyed him.

Game 2

Topdeck one-off Null Rod shut me down. Sad.

Game 3

Took beaty hand with Frogs and Skirges. After a fashion beated him down when he couldn't get bigger guys to block me. Decays didn't help for the sheer amount of beaters.


Semifinals

Game 1 D&T (different guy)

Early Tezz made Ornithopter huge and swinged him down shortly.

Game 2

Mulliganed to a pretty bad hand, topdecked a land, but never got third mana to actually play good things. Mangara + Karakas + Vial broke me. Also shattered to the sideboard anti-equipment equipment. Would've won easily as I had 2 Zealous in my hand, Master and Etched and other business.

Game 3

He kept a slow hand. I vomit and named my Revoker to his Mangara. GG.


Finals (YAY, at least won Tundra and I was in a really good mood)

Game 1 Maverick (should've been cakewalk right?)

Decimated him.

Game 2

Sided in Revokers and Persecutions. He played only lands, some removals and a Needle to my Ravager and proceeded to win with Crop Rotation to DD as I drew only Ravagers and nothing relevant. Salty. For some reason I thought he'd gone more for DD combo so I switched Persecutions to Swan Songs. Huge ****ing mistake.

Game 3

I felt bad with 2 Swan Songs in my hand and Jitte beating me down. Vomited my hand on the battlefield on turn 1 and played 2 Thoughtcasts. Again drew Ravagers after Needle had named him and Opals and lands and not a single dude. Felt very salty especially since my friends saw fit to pour salt on me even during the game. After some raging about basic manners I found myself both dissapointed and happy. I could've easily gone undefeated today as the deck performed excellently and I only failed in the most important game. Ah. Such is life.

[th3 w1z4rd]

As an alternative to Whip Flare, I would recommend Zealous Persecution. I run three side right now. It has the same cost problem as Sculler, but if you're in those colors anyway, it's less of a stretch than the red. And still tears apart decks like Elves and such.

2 main Sculler is interesting. I ran some side for awhile and kind of liked it, though I'm not currently running it. I do run two Revoker main, however - of the situations where you might have had it in hand, which card do you think would have been more useful? I feel like Revoker might be more versatile in the long run, but Sculler helps the first game against poor match-ups, like combo, while not taking away from the deck's aggressiveness. I've really liked the Revoker main, but I'm curious to see which one you think might be better. Maybe I'll try to run some Scullers main for a bit and see what I like better, too.

I love Whipflare to death in this deck. Never lost a match to Elves. Zealous Persecution is not even close in this matchup. It does not kill Deathrite Shaman, Nettle Sentinel, or any Elf if an Elvish Archdruid is out (I know this isn't common but still). It also doesn't kill Stoneforge Mystic, Insectile Aberration, Meddling Mage, Magus of the Moon (which Whipflare can actually be cast against with only lands), and a bunch of other things. Granted, Whipflare can't kill True-name Nemesis or Phyrexian Revoker or other things. I've found Zealous Persecution (with any deck, not just Affinity) to only be good against Elves when the opponent is not very good and plays out all their 1/1 dorks right into it and doesn't have Shamans and Sentinels. Just my two cents. Additionally, Whipflare can be easily cast with Glimmervoid, Mox Opal, and Springleaf Drum, but Zealous Persecution is much harder to cast.

[Aesir]

Hello

Played Affinity today in a 20-man tournament that had UG Sea and Tundra for prizes. I was completely bored in Nic Fit and Delver variants and wanted to return to my roots and picked up my first deck in Legacy with the help of a friend. It was about three years ago that I last played this deck and pretty much copypasted the same deck I had used that time. I was pretty sure there'd be little hate towards my deck and lots of combos so I tuned my sideboard with that in mind. Slept three hours before the tournament, ate a poor breakfast and of course had stomach-aches later in the day due to shitty kebabmeal. Swan Song felt better than Annul in paper, but sadly I didn't get to use it properly and lost finals because I sided wrong. Zealous Persecution was a very good choice but... messed it up too in the finals. Here's the list and some short notes on games:

4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Ancient Den
1 Glimmervoid
1 Blinkmoth Nexus

4 Ornithopter
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Etched Champion
4 Vault Skirge
4 Frogmite
3 Master of Etherium
2 Ethersworn Canonist

4 Mox Opal
4 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast
3 Springleaf Drum
3 Tezzeret, AoB

Sideboard

4 Rest in Peace
3 Zealous Persecution
3 Swan Song
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Ethersworn Canonist


Wanted to play 4 Masters but didn't get a fourth one in short notice. Mindbreaks were useless today. Swan Songs trapped me. I am still though a keen believer that it is better than Annul in most cases. S&T just wins if it resolves. Fourth Tezzeret might be good. Canonists were pretty irrelevant stall-bears most of the time.


Match 1 Mud? Stax?

I wasn't sure what my opponent played actually, but I saw Tangle Wire, Trinispheres, Chalice and Smokestack. Nothing really happened in these games. He tried to stall me and I patiently smacked him down.

1-0 (2-0)


Match 2 Reanimator

I put down Master and Skirge followed by Cranial. Almost lost the first game due to miscalculations. Thought I had lethals when I attacked with both of them and attached Cranial as an instant. Well he survived and I cringed. I was able to win through animated Angel of Despair and S&T:ed Elesh Norn with Master and Etched Champ. Second game he mulliganed and didn't get his pieces in time even after several draw spells.

2-0 (4-0)


Match 3 BUG

First game was pretty even. I played Frogmites, Ravagers and Skirges, he responded with 3 Goyfs, Delver and DShaman. We swinged at each other until I yoloed in when he had 2 cards in hand (other one was revealed for delver as Hymn), 10 life and I was at 4. He didn't have Decay so the second Skirge finished the deal. Second game he played two Goyfs and Dshaman. I responded with RiP and after a short while beated him down with plated Skirge. I was very lucky to evade Decays.

3-0 (6-0)


Match 4 Burn

First game too fast too furious. Second game he had Smash to Smithereens to my Cranial and I died to some burns later on even though I had 3 Canonists, two Skirges in play and gained 9 life in one swing. Third I had my ravagers to counter his Price of Progress and after he had to spend all his resources to remove my 6/6 Skirge the game was over.

4-0 (8-1)


Game 5 D&T

ID. Too tired and I lost when we played for fun. Funny thing was that in both games he had 1-2 life and I had 30-50+ when he stabilized.


Top8

Game 1 BUG (different guy)

I don't remember anymore. Destroyed him.

Game 2

Topdeck one-off Null Rod shut me down. Sad.

Game 3

Took beaty hand with Frogs and Skirges. After a fashion beated him down when he couldn't get bigger guys to block me. Decays didn't help for the sheer amount of beaters.


Semifinals

Game 1 D&T (different guy)

Early Tezz made Ornithopter huge and swinged him down shortly.

Game 2

Mulliganed to a pretty bad hand, topdecked a land, but never got third mana to actually play good things. Mangara + Karakas + Vial broke me. Also shattered to the sideboard anti-equipment equipment. Would've won easily as I had 2 Zealous in my hand, Master and Etched and other business.

Game 3

He kept a slow hand. I vomit and named my Revoker to his Mangara. GG.


Finals (YAY, at least won Tundra and I was in a really good mood)

Game 1 Maverick (should've been cakewalk right?)

Decimated him.

Game 2

Sided in Revokers and Persecutions. He played only lands, some removals and a Needle to my Ravager and proceeded to win with Crop Rotation to DD as I drew only Ravagers and nothing relevant. Salty. For some reason I thought he'd gone more for DD combo so I switched Persecutions to Swan Songs. Huge ****ing mistake.

Game 3

I felt bad with 2 Swan Songs in my hand and Jitte beating me down. Vomited my hand on the battlefield on turn 1 and played 2 Thoughtcasts. Again drew Ravagers after Needle had named him and Opals and lands and not a single dude. Felt very salty especially since my friends saw fit to pour salt on me even during the game. After some raging about basic manners I found myself both dissapointed and happy. I could've easily gone undefeated today as the deck performed excellently and I only failed in the most important game. Ah. Such is life.

Congrats on the finish; good to see at least some of us doing well with the deck at tournaments. I've not been able to attend too many lately due to other things I need to attend to, but hopefully I'll be able to soon.

@Draconisteel: Honestly, I haven't tested Revoker too much, but in theory I like Sculler better, as the info+added disruption and a body is good. There are certainly times in which Revoker will be better than Sculler, but they both have pros and cons.

[Dwell]

I played in a 69 man this weekend with the listed I posted above.
Here's a roughly how it went down.

Round 1 Vs Blake.
G1, I'm on the play. I kept at 6, with a slow hand. But it had champion and Plating, so how bad could it really be. I drop a land and pass. That felt dirty. He With a swamp, go. I Drop Tomb, champ. Pass. He yet again, swamp pass. I play and equip plating. He scoops. I'm still not too sure what he's on. Pox maybe? I side in the 4 Rips, then take them out again.
G2. I find out he's on Meliria pod. That's fine, I get a revoker down on pod. Keeping a second in hand to deal with any removal he has,. while i vaultskirge plating beat. He's down to 4. I was ready for abupt deacys, but not a deed. It whips the board, leaving me with nothing. I can't recover. I bring in the needle, rips and extra revokers.
G3. He does the pod thing and shuts me down
matches, 0-1, games 1-2

Round 2. Alex with Jund.
G1. I knew she was on Jund before it started. I lose the die roll, shes drops a DRS and passes. I slam a chalice at 1, and hide from bolts with a beat down.
2. She gets punishing online before I stabilize, out come bob and goyfs.
G3. T1 Chalice, stabilize behind an etched champ with plating.
Matches 1-1 games, 3-3

Round 3. Jon with ANT
G1, nothing exciting here, I lay beats and he dies.
G2, I keep with a T2 cannonist. He sees it with a probe, and makes 14 goblins on his second turn.
G3. We both mull too six, he then proceeds to storm out and kill me turn 2. Just like Richard Garfield intended.
Matches 1-2 Games 4-5

Round 4. Sean with Merfolk.
G1. We both mull to six. He has 2 cursecatchers out, but they don't stop etched champion.
G2. He Echoing truths my Master a few times, but eventually it sticks and kills him.
I find this to be one of the more favorable matchups.
matches 2-2 games, 6-5

Round 5. Donovan with MonoBlackPox
G1. I already feel good, this is a favourable matchup again.He opens with IoK, takes out a plating. I drop some cherrioes and draw a master. he smallpoxs, but thankfully I had an orthnithopter to keep my master alive. He scoops shortly after.
G2. He brings in ensnaring bridge, but makes the mistake of playing it turn one with a ritual. I manage to get in with a few thopters and memnites that are pumped from master. Next turn I'm forced to sac master to ravager in orger to get in with memnites and skirge. Eventually, I get him with Tezz.Brige hurt me more then I want it too, I did not really prepare to fight it.
matches 3-2 Games, 8-5

Round 6. Nixon with UWr Miracles.
We sit down, and he asked how I'm doing and if I'd like to concede and give him the free win. At this point he was at 3-0-2 and wanted to keep his run going. That was silly of him as I am spiteful. Plus I knew what he was on, and it's a match up I came very prepared for.
G1. I'm on the play, Slam Tomb and a revoker. naming Top. He sighs, and plays a top at his T1 play. The game just goes my way from then on. Drawing 3 thoughtcasts helps keep things going in my direction.
G2. He brainstorms into an early terminus to keep alive, then a supreme verdict. Then came angles.
G3. T1 Chalice. Always a good day. I can hold behind this I get two plating out, but he supreme verdicts and leaves me without a threat. In this match up I always try and keep a threat in my hand for later. I play the biggest threat of all. A 0/2 flying unicycle. He plays jace and bounces my monster. But that's only a temporary solution, jace runs out of counters and I have a memnite in my hand in case he has any funny business.
Matches 4-2 Games, 10-6

Round 7. Eric with Death and taxes.
I Remember playing Eric a few weeks ago at a weekly, he complained how much trouble he had vs affinity. Although that day I was playing Junk Depths, I like to remember affinity related things for another day. That other day had come. This was for top 16, and in the prizes. I could see the sweet glow of the 12-16th place prize: a Stifle. I even licked a card in order to see what it takes like. cardboard. Victory tastes like card board. That's fine, I like card board. I want cardboard. I need cardboard.
G1. He slams a Mom. I don't get to plow it, but she cant do much vs my colourless flyers with plating.
G2. I play for a T1 vault skirge. He then plays a T2 Stoney silence. bad times all round. I get some dudes out with an ancient tomb. These dudes cant do much to a Thalia. Wasteland kept be off glimmervoid and Whipflare. Ports did their work.
G3. He drops a quick revoker on plating. I'm getting in with vault skirges. The first master I play gets plowed, they second sticks. I get in with the vault skirges. they sneak right over his mommy and her family of 2/1's. End of my turn he enlightened tutors. This is the first time i play to hear the words, "Ill grab Jitte" I've been hanging onto a revoker for just that moment. He doesn't say jitte, he drops stoney silence on the table and lets me cut his deck. bad times ensue. For a while we pass back and forth, him hitting in with Thalia, and me with vault skirges. My life total went something like this. 6/4/6/4/6/ But he lands a serra avenger, and I can't beat through it. Whatever cardboard tastes rather bland anyways.
Matches 4-3 games, 11-8

All in all, I'm not too disappointed. If i'm ever against a deck that might play deed post board, I think I'm just gonna slam revoker on it. I think I've made up my mind on whipflare. I'm gonna cut it.
Changes to the SB are now
-2 Whipflare
-1 Diabolic Edict
+3 Disenchant

Pretty iffy about disenchant, but it's served me well in the past. I'll probably go up too 4 Ancient Dens now with that change.

[Shawon]

On Thoughtcast: I still don't see it. I don't look at Thoughtcast as two cards for one mana, I look at Thoughtcast as two extra threats for one mana. You yourself stated how you wanted to clog the board with threats. Well, Thoughtcast puts them in your hand to get them there. Insane card advantage like that in an aggro deck is nuts. Thoughtcast has won me so many games I can't keep track of them. Every time I resolve one, my opponent gets a little disappointed. Can you imagine drawing two Ravagers? Or a Ravager and a Plating? Or a Champion and . . . anything? Honestly, I still think Thoughtcast is one of the best cards in the deck. Also, it's hard to argue "you need more threats" when you play too many mana sources. 25 is waaaay too much. I run 15 lands, 4 Opal, and 3 Drum, and still sometimes think that's too much. If you want your deck to be more threat-heavy, I'd recommend skimming some land first, before you resort to Thoughtcast.

I'm well aware of how good Thoughtcast is. It's always been a great card, and will continue to be. I don't think you understand why I cut it, though. I cut Thoughtcast because in the respective matches I'm playtesting against (Reanimator, combo, Cloudpost), Thoughtcast doesn't do anything. I'm not going to argue with you about how Thoughtcast improves threat density through a game, because it's obviously true, but what I was attempting to say earlier is that Thoughtcast doesn't set up a threatening board states on turns 1-2 as well as having redundant threats. By having 4 Ravager, 4 Platings, 4 Masters, 4 Pest, 4 Inkmoth, etc., my goldfishes are much better. The goal of is that it makes my SB strategy against combo decks more successful since I can finish the game quickly if I manage to disrupt my opponent. In a nutshell: I wanted to improve my goldfishes at the cost of a better midgame. Previously, I focused my deck to have better midgames by packing Stoneforge Mystic and Tezzs MD. Now I've changed my priorities based on recent metagame trends in my area. So basically, my deck can get easily blown out by Jund or RUG Delver packing REBs/Ancient Grudge.

EDIT: I could possibly fit in 2-3 Thoughtcast and cut Overseer possibly, or 2 Vault Skirge. I could test those configurations and see how it runs.


Inkmoth: I played around with it before. I think this card is more preference, so I can understand why you would want to use it. It's also probably determined by your meta. I think there are a lot of Wastelands in my area, so playing Inkmoth is almost a hindrance. It feels much better to play Citadel, and know that, if nothing else, eventually I can make a 5/5 beater that can only be responded to with Swords. Also, I hate Overseer in Legacy. I tried it out VERY briefly, and found that every time it was in my hand, I wanted it to be something else. The Legacy version is faster than Modern, and doesn't spit out the absolute swarm that Vintage does, so I don't the card really belongs here.

Without Inkmoth Nexus, Steel Overseer would be absolutely terrible. It's definitely a replaceable card, but it does make other cards that I would consider cutting like Signal Pest better in the deck.


Dispatch: I can understand your desire for removal. I've played around with Dispatch several times, and opted on taking it out every time. My problem is that other sideboard options (because I don't think it's quite main-boardable) are simply more versatile. I main two Revokers, and side two Pithing Needles, the Needles because I need something for Marit Lage. I had originally tried Dispatch over Needle, but Needle is simply more versatile. All the things that Dispatch is good for, I already have options - I love RiP against any graveyard deck, and, likewise, RiP nerfs a Goyf and a Deathrite. On one card. I just thought Dispatch was too narrow.

Dispatch is also used as general removal against Death and Taxes. It is better than any cards suggested if you run them MD because Dispatch addresses Reanimator, Marit Lage, and fair interactive decks like Tempo or D&T all at the same time. In game 1.


Etched Champion: aside from Thoughtcast, this might be my biggest problem with this list. The decks that Affinity is designed to beat will cringe and die before Champion. Death and Taxes, BUG, Jund, etc., - really, any fair deck - can't do anything against it. Unless you saw the card too late in the game, Champion will get there for you. I used to only run two of Champion, but most of my friends at my game store who play fair decks have told me that Champion is the only thing they're really scared of. That's coming from the other side of the table. Everything else they can deal with. Plating, Ravager, Master, they don't care about those cards. Master dies to all of the best removal in the format, but Champion does not. Don't get me wrong, I still like Master - I play two of him myself - but you can't really justify playing that over Champion. Champion is simply the better card.
As I said a few times, I am actively trying to beat certain decks in my meta, like combo decks, Cloudpost, or Death & Taxes. Against those decks, Etched Champion is a card I wouldn't want to see. My list isn't a gold standard or what I would snap-keep if I was going to SCG New Jersey next week. I would change up my list, because I would want better game against decks I'm likely to pair up against, like Miracles or Deathblade, where 4 MD Dispatch is useless against Miracles.

Against Death and Taxes, Etched Champion is pretty useless if the D&T player has Phyrexian Revoker, because it can block Etched Champion, and furthermore, the Revoker is likely naming Cranial Plating which buys them an incredible amount of time to draw Jitte and nullify Etched Champion. Attacking with Etched Champion, even with Plating, can be a risky proposition if you don't swing for lethal, seeing as how a connect with Jitte from the opponent next turn can cause you to lose the game. Notwithstanding Mother of Runes, Master of Etherium can be pretty insane against D&T if they are forced to chump block it due to mounting pressure, something which this deck can apply.

EDIT: I should state for the record that my list is tuned specifically for a meta, which has Cloudpost and decks trying to beat Cloudpost such as Delver/D&T/lots of combo decks. It isn't a gold standard list by any means, and it's NOT something I would suggest blindly playing if you were to go to SCG Somerset next week. I wouldn't play my list anywhere except where I current live, in Connecticut, where I almost assuredly pair up against Jeremiah Rudolph, the acclaimed inventor of the Cloudpost deck, every stinking week.

[Aesir]

Any recent developments with the deck folks? Been testing a couple Sculler main, but other than that not much else...

[lambert101]

A friend of mine tested the following against uw stoneblade to some
decent success last night:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Ancient Den
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of Synod

3 Spring Leaf drum (want to change but no idea to what)
4 mox opal
4 thoughtcast
4 cranial platting
4 chalice of the void
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

4 ornithopter
2 Memnite
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Master of Ethrium
4 Etched champion
4 Valut Skirge

We did pre-boarded games only.
The list went 3-4 for the first run-through it did not seem that bad. Sideboard was going to be something like:
4 Rest in Peace
4 Ethersworn Cannonist
4 Anti creature cards
3 artifact/enchantment hate

[Shawon]

I played in a 25-man event on Saturday. I beat Round 1 Miracles due to tight play and him keeping a bad hand game 3. I lost to BG Depths with Null Rod games 2 and 3 (LOL), and I punted a match against Elves that I had in the bag. I dropped the main event at 1-2 to enter the side event (prizes were limited to top 4 anyway, wasn't worth it to stick it out) where I got eliminated by Storm. I played in a 8-man the Friday before and that experience made me change up my SB against Sneak-Show.

Here's what I played Saturday.

Mana
12 Artifact Lands
4 Drum
4 Opal
4 Inkmoth

Critters
8 0-costs
4 Pest
4 Skirge
4 Ravager
4 Master

Business
4 Plating
4 Tezz
4 Dispatch

SB
4 Revoker
2 Envelop
1 Swan Song
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Canonist
2 Karakas
1 Explosives
1 Tezz

I wish I could've played this list against Sneak-Show Saturday, alas that never happened. I would've love to try out 2 Karakas postboard lol. Unfortunately, I only borrowed it and had to give it back, so I'm testing non-expensive cards like Aether Spellbomb or going back to O-Ring.

I don't have much other insight regarding deck tech as my critical losses were due to misplays, such as punting towards Elves (>.<) and I've decided to just spend less emphasis on tweaking my sb and more on consistent practice, hence I'm attending more Legacy weeklies from now on to sharpen my skills.

[Cire]

Any room for

Military Intelligence 1U
Enchantment (U)
Whenever you attack with two or more creatures, draw a card.

(from 15th edition?)

Seems like you can get it out by turn 2, and draw an extra card from then on?

[Souleater734]

The effect is definitely something that is good, though I don't know how much it would do. Against grindy control decks that seems fine though tezzeret and etched champion are probably just always better in that matchup. It could be a reasonable card against something like miracles. Like t1 a couple dorks and cast that t2 against miracles could be good. Though it seems too narrow to me, though just my opinion.

[Aesir]

Any room for

Military Intelligence 1U
Enchantment (U)
Whenever you attack with two or more creatures, draw a card.

(from 15th edition?)

Seems like you can get it out by turn 2, and draw an extra card from then on?

I'd rather just run Thoughtcast.

[Aesir]

@Shawon: I know you were testing Inkmoth Nexus, and I wanted to ask how it's been doing for you? I think I might want to try it out, as it looks like a good (and fast) wincon. I can see it useful versus some variants of combo (Perhaps ANT/TES), where you want to kill then as fast as possible. I'll be testing it, but I'd like your opinion on how it's worked out so far.

[Shawon]

@Shawon: I know you were testing Inkmoth Nexus, and I wanted to ask how it's been doing for you? I think I might want to try it out, as it looks like a good (and fast) wincon. I can see it useful versus some variants of combo (Perhaps ANT/TES), where you want to kill then as fast as possible. I'll be testing it, but I'd like your opinion on how it's worked out so far.

It's really good. Elves has no answer against it. It's power in the deck increases the better you are with Ravager.

[Souleater734]

What does your meta look like? Mine is full of wastelands so I couldn't pull the trigger on playing with manlands.

[Shawon]

What does your meta look like? Mine is full of wastelands so I couldn't pull the trigger on playing with manlands.

People play tempo in CT, but combo is prevalent so I need to find ways to win if getting my opponent to 0 isn't likely before they go off.

[slave]

Military intelligence. LOL. Gotta love a good oxymoron.

I'd rather just run Thoughtcast.
Military Intelligence for 1U looks like a GREAT casual card.
In legacy, we will no doubt see it in action somewhere, but in affinity I think this card is an option at least worth looking at.
We can repeat it's effect turn after turn, even if all we have is a couple of Ornithopter's. The bit that grabs my attention is that it says nothing about dealing damage, so even attacking into a Glacial Chasm, Maze of Ith etc. will net us draw.

IME with Affinity;
Our topdecks are FUCKING TERRIBLE. The longer a game goes on, the more we generally stuggle to close out a game. Any card that can turn an otherwise terrible topdeck, like Ornithopter, into draw looks to be something we should consider.

[Shawon]

Military Intelligence is nothing worth considering in this deck. It requires two attacking creatures, and you net only one card per trigger, and only one trigger. That is incredibly subpar in a deck that has access to an equivalent of Gush for :u: and a 4-mana card draw that can also win the game.

[Souleater734]

The match ups where we need the card draw tezzeret is already the best option available and it will just lead to an enchantment that is just a "win more" card in most match ups.

[Geeksire]

Hey Affinity lovers. It has been a damn long time and just want to say I miss you guys (especially Shawon.) I came back on the thread to see how Affinity has progressed and lo-and-behold it is still brimming with card choices and knowledge of experienced magic players. I wanted to show you a deck that I created which is slow to mid to late-game, but causes so much pain to the opposing player (psychologically.) My deck is somewhat similar to before when I had it but sadly, NO MEMNITES! Why Geeksire? Why you do that to infamous Affinity deck?! Let me show you my deck and explain.

Creatures [23]
4x Vault Skirge
4x Ornithopter
3x Stoneforge Mystic
3x Etched Champion
2x Arcbound Ravager
2x Master of Etherium
2x Tidehollow Sculler
2x Phyrexian Revoker
2x Frogmites

Artifact Spells??? [22]
4x Cranial Platings
4x Mox Opals
4x Chalice of the Void (I have thought about this for quite some time and am thinking of replacing CotV with Tanglewire. I have playtested it and it can prove to be a nuisance once the player cannot do anything.)
4x Thoughtcast
3x Springleaf Drums
2x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

Land [15]
4x Ancient Dens
4x Seat of Synods
4x Vault of Whispers
3x Ancient Tombs

-----------------------------------
Sideboard [12] (Oblivious to what I need to put but might get "Whipflare".)
4x Spell Pierce
3x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Rest in Peace
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Manriki-Gusari

Now into the explanation, this deck can wreck Storm, ANTS, and decks that use 1 mana spells (if you can mulli to the CotV.) This deck is not fast at all, if you are lucky you can do a turn 3-5 win but that is a small chance! That is what I found most annoying when using Affinity: 1.) Either we are board-wiped when we have our creatures out by turn 2-3 (no hand mind you since we emptied it) 2.) Or countered with spells especially removal cards. In retrospect, I figured why not make a deck that can at least slow a deck a teeny-bit.

The reason why I removed Memnites and Signal Pests is because they are weak mid to late game. I find them to be useless because the importance they have are from Cranial Plate or Signal Pests when they attack. So in the end, they need to cooperate with each other which makes it very difficult. I can tell you right now that I have been board-wiped SOOOOO many times that I gave up on these two creatures. It is terrible! I want to cry when the opposing player plays Terminus or Plague. If you remember the awesomness Arcbound Ravager, it can only do so much. I play only one on the field and use him for removal spells and attack (at times,) but the really annoying part is when Path of Exile is used on him specifically. I cry so much I can produce a damn flood for all I care. That is why I have been thinking of removing Arcbound since I do not have weeny-artifacts attacking with him.

If you want more explanation on this deck and scenarios, I got a lot!

[Shawon]

It's nice to have you back, Geeksire.

I have to agree that Terminus sucks to play against. I've recently been running Envelop as answer to it, I love it because it also answers Entreat the Angels. Envelop also counters Show & Tell, as well as Glimpse of Nature and Natural Order.

Anyone playing Affinity in the SCG Legacy Open tomorrow?

I'm close to settling on a Grixis build for tomorrow. Basically, I shaved 1 Memnite, and swapped the MD Tezzs for 4 MD Revoker. I've seen a number of people MD Revokers before, and I'm finally coming around it.

Actually, my main reason for doing this is because I feel I need more practice naming cards with Revoker after punting games with the card as of late. I also feel having it Game 1 forces me to be better at naming cards in order to successfully disrupt my opponent.

With that in mind, I'm also thinking of swapping the 4 MD spot removal (Galvanic Blast, Dispatch, depending on what splash is run) for 4 Thoughtseize. Having discard better informs my naming with Revoker, I feel. Furthermore, having both cards now Game 1 makes my combo matchups a little bit better and I gain more information to prepare my boarding games 2 and 3. I think this strategy is going to be very beneficial for me.

[Geeksire]

Good to be back Shawon. I have experimented and tried to find the right cards for Affinity when I am at my house reading. I found two decks which I believe are pretty interesting to use: the one I posted previously and the current one that I will post!

Creatures [22]
4x Vault Skirge
4x Ornithopter
4x Signal Pests
3x Stoneforge Mystic
3x Etched Champion
2x Arcbound Ravager
2x Phyrexian Revoker

Artifact Spells??? [21]
4x Cranial Plating
4x Mox Opal
4x Tangle Wire
4x Thoughtcast
3x Springleaf Drums
2x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

Land [17]
4x Ancient Dens
4x Seat of Synods
4x Vault of Whispers
3x Ancient Tombs
2x Inkmoth Nexus

I might spruce it up a bit and include two more Inkmoth Nexus's and Arcbound Ravager's, but what really bothers me is how Cranial and Arcbound do not synergize. (I usually have Cranial and Arcbound when attacking so if I was to sac artifacts as I attack, nothing would change.) I am pretty sure I am being a complete noob and not realizing the magnanimous potential this card can bring to this board but if anybody can explain this please feel free. (I know for a fact Shawon will tell me to what is needed because I have asked this same-exact question before. : D

By the way, I cannot visit the SCG legacy tournament this Summer. Doing my Master's degree as we speak. Otherwise, it would be great if somebody can give their full details on what they were up against!

[Nuke is Good]

A friend of mine is building Affinity slowly on MTGO, I was hoping maybe you guys can help with the current decklist.

4 Ancient Den
4 Cranial Plating
4 Ornithopter
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Memnite
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Etched Champion
3 Master of Etherium
4 Vault Skirge
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

3 Glimmervoid
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Academy Ruins
1 Mox Opal
4 Thoughtcast
4 Signal Pest



1 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Elixir of Immortality
3 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Dispatch
2 Rest in Peace

Budget is a concern, is going 4x Mox Opals really necessary or is a 3x still good enough for the legacy daily? My buddy's sideboard is still being retooled, he really wants to have counterspells in his deck. Is getting Inkmouth Nexus and Arcbound Ravager worth it?

[Aesir]

A friend of mine is building Affinity slowly on MTGO, I was hoping maybe you guys can help with the current decklist.

4 Ancient Den
4 Cranial Plating
4 Ornithopter
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Memnite
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Etched Champion
3 Master of Etherium
4 Vault Skirge
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

3 Glimmervoid
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Academy Ruins
1 Mox Opal
4 Thoughtcast
4 Signal Pest



1 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Elixir of Immortality
3 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Dispatch
2 Rest in Peace

Budget is a concern, is going 4x Mox Opals really necessary or is a 3x still good enough for the legacy daily? My buddy's sideboard is still being retooled, he really wants to have counterspells in his deck. Is getting Inkmouth Nexus and Arcbound Ravager worth it?

3 is ok, but you really want 4 especially with the "new" legend rule.

[Shawon]

Went 6-3 yesterday at SCG Providence. After my second loss, I started gaining my confidence back and I ended up feeling more composed each round than I did my first two rounds.

List:

Mana
12 Artifact Lands (:u::b::r:)
4 Inkmoth
4 Opal
4 Drum

Guys
4 thopter
3 Memnite
4 Ravager
4 Pest
4 Skirge
4 Revoker
2 Master
2 Champ

Business
4 Plating
4 Thoughtseize

SB
4 Tezz
3 Blood Moon
3 Envelop
2 Cage
2 Whipflare
1 Karakas

Results:

R1: Bug Delver 2-0 (Owned with Ravager game 1, and game 2 he confidently smacks down double Goyf and double DRS. Luckily, going for an Plating + Infect kill makes me not care about life totals. I don't think he expected me to win like that.)

R2: Bug Delver 1-2 (punted game 3 because I was too chicken to go for a two-turn Infect kill. Tilted after that, not at my opponent who was real cool, but at myself because I hate punting.)

R3: Sneak-Show 0-2 (I will say that I only get mad in Magic when I lose games to myself, not when I lose to opponent's nut draws or bad matchups. However, facing this matchup which has always been one of my difficult matchups right after I punted a game was not the best transition for me, so I was a little annoyed after the match, but I acted professional nonetheless. I had Revoker for game 2, but he had Pyroclasm obviously.)

R4: Sneak-Show 2-0 (Everyone at this table was a little down, because we were all 1-2. My opponent mulligans game 1 to 3 cards, and scoops when I show him an aggro start. I found he was on Sneak-Show game 2, but I ended up taking it by forcing him to chump block with Emrakul. Double Plating can cause them to do that, I hear.

R5: Affinity 2-0 (Affinity mirror! Never expected this pairing lol. I took Game 1 by naming Cranial Plating with my Revoker. I can't remember how I won that game but I ended up chump blocking with my Revoker to enable my Cranial Plating at some point. Game 2 was even more hilarious with Revoker because I had both Ravager and 2x Platings in my hand. And I ended up naming Ravager, which at the time felt like a mistake because he dropped a Plating, and if I had named Plating despite holding 2 in my hand, I could've handled with Ravager with my own. Fortunately, I played my creatures and ended up dropping Tezz. I used the Tezz to animate my opponent's Plating so he couldn't equip his fliers, the only real threats that game. This allowed me to set up defense with Ravagers and allowed me to drop my Platings and swing every turn into his 0/2 Thopters, all the while using Tezz to my advantage. I believe my opponent had one window to go for a strike to force me to chump block after I animated his Plating, but he passed back every turn, and so it was inevitable that I won the game with Tezz ultimate.)

R6: Shardless BUG or BUG Control 2-0 (I win game 1 off of Ravager beats. Game 2, he made a desperate play with Toxic Deluge for 8 while I have Ravager and 7 other artifacts, 2 of them creatures, while he lost a True-Name and Deathrite. I can understand why he made that play, but it brought his life total down so much that I was just able to take the game and match through simple aggro. Barring my misplay against game 3 against BUG Delver, I'm pretty sure confident that my matchup against most BUG decks not running Pernicious Deed is incredibly positive.)

R7: Food Chain 2-0 (This was against Eric English and Sourcer "ChineseGirl", the man who won the KDM tournament for Duals in NY a month back. I actually didn't know this was the same person until I mentioned the KDM tournament to him after I saw he was on Food Chain. I won game 1 off of Etched Champion + Plating, and in the final game, I beat him because he had a slow hand.

R8: Elves 0-2 (Sigh, I tried so hard earlier in the week to prepare for this match and still lost horribly. I mulled to five one of those games, and in game 2, I dropped a Revoker naming Heritage Druid, and he still had Birchlore Ranger to go off. After losing this match, I started thinking that I might need to run 3 Whipflares instead of 2 from now on.)

R9: UR delver 2-1 (For the money, as we both were fighting for top 64. Game 1 I mulligan to five and one of those cards is Thoughtseize... against a burn deck basically. Not great. I lost that game handily. Game 2 I somehow win through despite another aggressive start from him. This match in general was intense for both of us. Game 3, we were literally both shaking, and I'll tell you why. The gist of our game 3 is him attacking me with Guide and Delver for several turns and me taking it. I kept revealing no lands off the Guide, and I'm holding Etched Champion in hand unable to cast it. I tried my best not to be tempted to chump block his Delver with Vault skirge because I had to play to win, not play to not lose. Eventually he got me down to 4 life, or 1 life, and I had to chump block his Delver with my Skirge and his Guide with my Pest. But what did I reveal off the Guide? FUCKING WHIPFLARE. I casted it next turn, and was down to 1-2 life. At that time, I felt like I was still going to lose, and I had no idea that I was going to end up winning that match. I mean, he just needs to draw ANY burn spell and he wins, right? But, I still played like I needed to win, and kept attacking with Champion to reduce his life total. After bricking, he finally drops a Delver, and he's at 7 life. It's the moment of truth. What did I draw? Ravager, and I went for the kill. I immediately shook my opponent's hand, as that was by far the most intense match I had in that tournament.)

Props:
- Getting to talk with my friends and see how they were doing at the tournament
- Meeting new friends and fellow Sourcers, especially Rood (formerly Roodmistah, HammafistRoob, and ChineseGirl)!
- Gaining my confidence back after my second loss. I need to stop second guessing myself and go for the win if I see it as a line of play, such as the Infect kill against BUG Delver in round 2.
- SCG for hosting a fun tournament and supporting Legacy!

Slops:
- Need to stop second-guessing my plays
- Need to play less slowly in general. I got judge-called twice for that. Obviously, I wasn't intentionally slow-playing, but I sometimes have a bad habit of playing to a leisurely pace, or playing too slowly because I'm nervous. Either I just need to practice playing at a more optimal speed, or play in more REL Competitive events. Not a bad thing.
- Still need to work on my Elves & Sneak-Show matchups

Overall, I loved the list I played. I definitely got a bit better playing with Revoker, which was the point of MD Revoker as a self-training exercise, and I'm still going with this approach, especially with Thoughtseize in the main. I can't wait for the Die Hard Games Legacy tournament two weeks now. I left SCG Providence with more hunger for glory and my fire is still hot. But damn those Modern PTQs I need to prepare for also...

[Rood]

The affinity crush. LOL, nice work man. Is Tezz unplayable here? I always liked him with affinity.

[Shawon]

The affinity crush. LOL, nice work man. Is Tezz unplayable here? I always liked him with affinity.

Thanks. I have Tezz in the SB instead of the main because I want to use Revoker main. Tezz is always a necessity somewhere in the 75 because of grindy or slow matches like Miracles or Shardless. It's also my way to win against Glacial Clasm since Tezz's ultimate gets around damage-prevention clauses.

[Geeksire]

Congratz on playing your game Shawon. I have been looking in to your Infect way of winning and I see the potential it can make on the opposing player: slowly dwindle their regular life then unbeknownst to them, attack with an Inkmoth to deal the winning blow. It is a spectacle to see. Now to show what I mean by "looking in to Infect" I made a deck similar to your own deck a while back Shawon. Let me show you:

Creatures [25]
4x Ornithopter
4x Memnites
4x Signal Pests
3x Vault Skirge
3x Etched Champion
3x Arcbound Ravager
2x Stoneforge Mystic
2x Phyrexian Revoker

Artifact Spells??? [19]
4x Cranial Plating
4x Mox Opal
4x Tangle Wire
4x Thoughtcast
3x Springleaf Drums

Land [16]
4x Ancient Dens
4x Seat of Synods
4x Vault of Whispers
4x Inkmoth Nexus

I found this deck to be sneaky and fun when it came to play-testing this deck many times. "Sneak and Affinity" can be a fitting name but I will let you guys decide on the name : D

[Shawon]

Man, that Affinity player sure got trounced on camera by UWr Delver. Oh wait that was me. #scgwor

5-1. I still got the fire.

[Shawon]

Ended up 69th yesterday at #SCGWOR. Should've ID'd the last round, but totally forgot or didn't care or whatever after losing three straight rounds after going 5-0. The losing streak was more frustrating than being featured on camera twice and having the worst of draws. Fun fact: I casted ZERO Arcbound Ravagers in 5 games of my two feature matches.

Record:

Bug Delver: 2-0
Dark Maverick: 2-1
Manaless Dredge: 2-1
Esper Deathblade: 2-1
BUG Delver: 2-0
UWR Delver: 0-2
Elves: 1-2
Elves: 1-2
Belcher: 1-2

Things I learned, pertaining to deck changes (I learned other things related to tournament etiquette):

- Deck needs 4 Whipflare. Possibly Whipflare in MD.
- Welding Jar needs to be cut. It wasn't absolutely terrible since it protected my Cage from Elves' Abrupt Decay (but not the second one :(),
- More Masters. Had I drawn a Master instead of Etched Champ against UWR Delver game 1, I would've easily gone to game 3 because I would've won.
- It's either Thoughtseize or Envelop that needs to go. I have no need for both in the SB. Not sure yet.

Actual positive stuff from the deck:

- I still like running 17 lands.
- Grafdigger's Cage was excellent against Dredge and Elves. 3 in the SB is perfect.
- I didn't face Sneak-Show, but I brought in 2 Karakas against Dark Maverick running Marit Lage, and my opponent walked right into my Karakas despite me clearly playing the card as my land for turn. In game 3 of turns, I killed him with Tezz the turn before he would've gone for Stage Depths, but I never showed him the Karakas I still had in my hand. I'm lucky to have borrowed the 2nd Karakas. It may be unrealistic to need 2 just for Affinity, but they will make your postboard games easier.

[adrieng]

Did anyone tested life's legacy it seems awesome with cranial platint and master of etherium

[Shawon]

Did anyone tested life's legacy it seems awesome with cranial platint and master of etherium

It's green, which is the color with least relevant cards for Affinity's 75, and the sacrifice is an additional cost, so if you cast this, pay the addtional cost, and the spell is countered... well, you know. This card would be playable if it was instant and/or the sacrifice was part of the resolution, not additional cost. I'd rather play Fling.

Also, people should test cards out on their own before asking what others think.

[adrieng]

There is a very big difference between drawing cards and dealing damage, fling is far from the power of life's legacy.
Life's legacy allows to play goyf and drawing something like 4-5 cards is already game most of the time.
I know we have to change the build a little but the card is a powerhouse.

[Shawon]

There is a very big difference between drawing cards and dealing damage, fling is far from the power of life's legacy.
Life's legacy allows to play goyf and drawing something like 4-5 cards is already game most of the time.
I know we have to change the build a little but the card is a powerhouse.

The big difference between Life's Legacy and Fling is that Fling is an instant, so you can always cast it in response to a removal spell to get full value out of your creature that's going to be removed anyway. Nevermind that, I'm surprised and not surprised you chose to address a minor line I said, instead of focusing on everything else I said about the card that's way more relevant. Let me state again why I think Life's Legacy is bad. It's green. The sacrifice is part of the spell's cost, not its resolution. The card is a two-mana sorcery, so you can't use it in response to an opponent's removal spell. Furthermore, without Cranial Plating, Master of Etherium, or even Arcbound Ravager, the card draw is going to be small when many of Affinity's creatures have a base power of 0 or 1.

[Infinitium]

So anyhow, Ensoul Artifact looks like it can possibly take a spot in the deck - it's non-artifact and a potential 2-for-1, but essentially amounts to a 5/5 for 2 with haste sometimes.

[Alex Holland]

Hi i am just getting started what do u think of this list?

i really like charm, it can protect your artifact and cheat in dreadnought. same for stifle cheat in nought or counter a fetch a planeswalker or some other relevant stuff.

Noughty finity

4 Etched Champion
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 baleful strix

4 Mox Opal
3 Ancient Tomb
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
2 Darksteel Citadel
2 Glimmervoid

3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

4 Stifle
3 Vision Charm
4 Thoughtcast
4 Cranial Plating
3 Springleaf Drum

[frogger42]

The big difference between Life's Legacy and Fling is that Fling is an instant, so you can always cast it in response to a removal spell to get full value out of your creature that's going to be removed anyway. Nevermind that, I'm surprised and not surprised you chose to address a minor line I said, instead of focusing on everything else I said about the card that's way more relevant. Let me state again why I think Life's Legacy is bad. It's green. The sacrifice is part of the spell's cost, not its resolution. The card is a two-mana sorcery, so you can't use it in response to an opponent's removal spell. Furthermore, without Cranial Plating, Master of Etherium, or even Arcbound Ravager, the card draw is going to be small when many of Affinity's creatures have a base power of 0 or 1.

I'm on the Life's Legacy bandwagon - I'm pro that card in Affinity. I think the drawback to it isn't the color or the sorcery speed - I mean, fling is often sorcery speed if you need to finish - but that it doesn't follow the usual gameplan of the deck. This affinity build is meant to bash hard and fast and win in as few turns as possible. Fling fulfills that role admirably, smashing for the last 5-7. Life's legacy is not that card.

An affinity list that is more controlling, or combo-y, with 8 Cranials (SFM) will LOVE this card. It's nuts. Even aggro can probably use 2x spots for it, though that will need to be tested more thoroughly. With all the rainbow sources available to Affinity, cutting one color for Green is an option, but again, that decision will have to fit the gameplan of the affinity build. I honestly think it's totally worth testing the card, and Cranial seems such a natural fit for it.

I also really like the 5/5 Enchant Arti a lot. Sometimes Tezz is tough to pull off, and makes you jam more lands than's really necessary in the build; the enchant is super-efficient here. Not really my playstyle, and not as flashy as Tezz, but might not be awful.

Not a tested decklist, but more a brainstorm session (which, ironically, hates on Brainstorm):

Mopal
Seat
Den
Tree
Chrome Mox

Cranial
Chalice of the Void

Ornithopter
Memnite
Vault Skirge

1 Sofi
1 Jitte
2 MoE

SFM
Thoughtcast
Life's Legacy
Ensoul Artifact
(or some other Chrome-imprintable 2-drop)

[The Etched Champion]

Hello affinity thread I was wondering what I need to do to convert modern affinity into Legacy affinity (dont say artifact lands cause no duh)

Also ensoul artifact is it good enough to play in legacy?

[Draconicsteel]

Artifact lands are really it, unless you side something like Cabal Therapy (which I do). I'm fairly positive that everything else is legal in both formats, though I haven't played Affinity in modern, so I could be wrong. The legacy variant doesn't usually run Steel Overseer, though, as it's often too slow in that format.

As for Ensoul Artifact . . . I guess I can't really make a judgment call on it, since I haven't played it, but it seems bad. I don't like giving my opponent the option to two for one something. In a deck that is already susceptible to removal, I would rather not give my opponent that kind of option.

[saum-nunca]

Hey guys, i will play a league in my city with this list:

16 LANDS

4 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Glimmervoid
2 Ancient Den

18 CREATURES

4 Ornithopter
4 Vault Skirge
3 Master of Etherium
3 Etched Champion
2 Memnite
2 Stoneforge Mystic

4 INSTANTS

4 Thoughtcast

22 OTHER SPELLS

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cranial Plating
4 Mox Opal
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 Thopter Foundry
3 Springleaf Drum
1 Sword of the Meek

SIDEBOARD
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Thoughtseize
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Manriki-Gusari
3 Krosan Grip
2 Whipflare

yhea!!! i know this sb stinks, but is what i have :(

Expect to face:

Ominitell
Team italia
Death and taxes
Bug agroo
Goblins RB
Merfolks
Patriot
GWb maverick
Painter Combo (with white)
Lands
Burn
Pox mono black
Elfs
UR delver
Belcher

U can help me with game plays and sideboard plans?

Really THANKs

[slave]

So I've been trying out a transformational sideboard with Phyrexian Dreadnought & Stifle.
....aaaaaaand I don't like it for a few reasons.

But what about other transformational sideboards?

Painter's Servant & Grindstone appeals to me most, given it's alt-win ability and possibility to churn out a win on T2 with all the mana acceleration we have, and that a way to find our combo pieces in Enlightened Tutor is just generally useful for us to find other sideboard options anyway.
I'm gonna try using this next time I play affinity.

Dark Depths & Thespain's Stage doesn't look too bad > anyone tried it?

Thoughts?

[Draconicsteel]

Also, Shawon, I tried out Whipflare and also love it. I'm running three in the side right now. Also running two Blood Moon side. So I'm now a four color affinity deck haha. I have another tournament tomorrow so I'll try to remember to post something about my results.

I'm also trying out Chalice main. I wanted to keep my Stoneforge package and I couldn't figure out what to take out for Chalice, so right now I'm not running Ravagers. Haven't decided yet if I want to run them tomorrow over Stoneforge or just go Whipflare main.

[Draconicsteel]

So, Chalice was neat, but it wasn't the blowout I was kind of hoping it would be. And there were a lot of games when I would have Chalice on board, but then not have the threats or board presence that Affinity is supposed to have. So I'm cutting the Chalices and SFM package and going back to more of a swarm plan, see if strengthening the early game helps more. And I added Revokers back to main board, feeling good about that decision, too.

Due to poor luck and really poor siding decisions, I went 2-3 this past Sunday. Got another tournament this weekend, hopefully I'll have my head back in the game for it.

[BBG|Scott-Spain]

So are Ancient Tomb builds still good? I that's a bit of a vague question, but I'm struggling to see if they're still worth getting nowadays.

[Shawon]

So are Ancient Tomb builds still good? I that's a bit of a vague question, but I'm struggling to see if they're still worth getting nowadays.

You don't need Ancient Tombs. Inkmoth Nexus is way better.

[Draconicsteel]

Went 4-3 in Grand Prix NJ. Mainboarding Galvanic Blast is really good right now. Whipflare is still one of the best sideboard cards. Tried out Chalice again, ran into storm twice and lost, and didn't see any RU Delver decks, so I don't think I got to really test it. My other loss was American with a mull to four then a mull to five. Beat BUG Delver, American, Reanimator (somehow), and some kind of Esper brew. I think our deck is positioned slightly better than it has been at the moment, seemed fine yesterday for the most part.

I don't like Inkmoth actually. It's too easily removable. I ran it again for awhile, but never even got close to threatening with it. Ancient tomb is better if you run Chalice in the side, and it's pretty good at powering a Tezz, Champion, or Master real quick. I'm in favor of Tomb.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[adrieng]

I have an affinity build in test here is the list :


4 Ancient Tomb
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Great Furnace
3 Mana Confluence
3 Tree of Tales

4 Mox Opal
3 Springleaf Drum

4 Whipflare
4 Goblin Welder
2 Memnite
4 Cranial Plating
4 Ensoul Artifact
4 Ornithopter
4 Master of Etherium
2 Lodestone Golem

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Choke


SB: 4 Containment Priest
SB: 3 Meddling Mage
SB: 4 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas


The choke idea is from the sylvan plug thread, I think it is really good in this deck with 4 mox 4 tomb.
There is some disinergy between chalice and goblin welder/drums but chalice and welder are so strong that I can't see playing the deck without them.
Whipflare is really good in current format that I don't see any reasons not to maindeck them.
Current list answers the combo.problems of the decks and the UR.decks.

The tezzeret in side are for control.decks, others cards are for combo. I like a lot grudge against all the blade decks.

[CptHaddock]

So do any of you have a good starting point for someone interested in playing affinity in legacy? How does Chitturi's (http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpnj14/artifactaggro) list look from GP NJ?

[Tahumatu2010]

What to have in my side board for my decks?
so I run affinity for legacy. I play with friends since my local card shop has no legacy events. I was wondering what cards I could place in my decks sideboards that would be great againist the gollowing decks:

High Tide
Delver decks
Elves
show and tell/sneak and show
death and taxes
Jund
enchantress
maverick

I cant seem to find anything online that can help me.

[Windmill]

Hey guys. So I know Omnitell is meant to crush affinity. But I just lost 4/5 games (granted I am new to my deck). Affinity was just too fast. I could assemble my combo in four turns but if I lost the dice roll, they killed me in four turns so were a turn faster. Then when Thalia came down on the Show and Tell, it slowed me down even more.

Any tips you can give from the inside? :)

[owerbart]

This list made Top 4 in a big tournament in Argentina:

3 Baleful Strix
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Master of Etherium
4 Vault Skirge
4 Ornithopter

4 Force of Will
4 Thoughtcast

4 Mox Opal
1 Springleaf Drum
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Sword of the Meek
3 Thopter Foundry
4 Cranial Plating

4 Glimmervoid
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Ancient Tomb

Sideboard (15)
3 Whipflare
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Blood Moon
2 Rest in Peace
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Ethersworn Adjudicator

[adrieng]

I think the new draw 7 might be very good in his deck. Might make the deck playable.

It seems obvious to me the deck need the playset of city and tomb (I have tested a lot and came to that conclusion)

Welding jar is very good at protecting your lock.piece or winning creature, I would never play less than the four.


here is what I am testing :


4 Cranial Plating
4 Master of Etherium
2 Lodestone golem
4 Etched Champion

4 Day's undoing

4 Welding Jar
4 Ornithopter
4 Vault Skirge
2 Memnite


4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Mox Opal
4 Island

[echofish]

I think the new draw 7 might be very good in his deck. Might make the deck playable.

It seems obvious to me the deck need the playset of city and tomb (I have tested a lot and came to that conclusion)

Welding jar is very good at protecting your lock.piece or winning creature, I would never play less than the four.


here is what I am testing :


4 Cranial Plating
4 Master of Etherium
2 Lodestone golem
4 Etched Champion

4 Day's undoing

4 Welding Jar
4 Ornithopter
4 Vault Skirge
2 Memnite


4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Mox Opal
4 Island



This looks sweet, but I don't know if I like the Trinisphere. After a Timeswister, your 0cmc-stuff costs 3 mana. Also 4 Jars will for sure be sweet against decks with decay, but useless against plows.

[adrieng]

This looks sweet, but I don't know if I like the Trinisphere. After a Timeswister, your 0cmc-stuff costs 3 mana. Also 4 Jars will for sure be sweet against decks with decay, but useless against plows

Trinisphere is for the omni meta where it is likely better than thorn of amethyst.

Don't underestimate the ability to regenerate a creature from things like lightning bolt/ block a creature kill it +regenerate or protect an artifact land from wasteland. It also gives metalcraft faster.

[echofish]

Trinisphere is for the omni meta where it is likely better than thorn of amethyst.

Don't underestimate the ability to regenerate a creature from things like lightning bolt/ block a creature kill it +regenerate or protect an artifact land from wasteland. It also gives metalcraft faster.

What about 4 Golems and some drums instead of trini?

[adrieng]

Yeah golem is ok I play 2 but trini is better versus omni cause with only one tax effect they can go for emmy.(2 in side along some thorn might be correct) But drum isn't good with chalice for one which i play.
Still I haven't tested if this new card changes lot of things, previous similar builds without this new card
didn't do enough card advanatage to compet with DTT in the middle/late game. This card might change things.

[echofish]

Yeah golem is ok I play 2 but trini is better versus omni cause with only one tax effect they can go for emmy.(2 in side along some thorn might be correct) But drum isn't good with chalice for one which i play.
Still I haven't tested if this new card changes lot of things, previous similar builds without this new card
didn't do enough card advanatage to compet with DTT in the middle/late game. This card might change things.

The issue with drum and chalice on one is rarely a problem. You usually start the turn with drum and a free creature. Then you deply chalice. They will either counter the chalice or destroy it anyways. If they don't you have such an advantage over them, that a drum in hand that you can't cast it no problem.

If you have trini in play and cast Timetwister, you can maybe cast 1-2 spells your next turn, instead of empying your hand.

[adrieng]

The following build looks better :

It is between faerie stompy and affinity, but i think playing TNN might do it and cutting into orni/memnite/skirg is a good idea.
You want to make sure your lock piece/draw seven resolve. Trini has more synergy there with lot of 3cc bombs.



4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Island
4 Mox Opal

4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void

4 Etched Champion
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Welding Jar
4 Cranial Plating
4 True-Name Nemesis
4 Master of Etherium
4 Windfall
4 Force of Will

[civet five]

So I cobbled this together and have been goldfishing this a bunch on MWS. Inspired by vintage builds along the same lines.

4 Signal Pest
4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
4 Vault Skirge
3 Frogmite
3 Myr Enforcer

4 Mox Opal
4 Cranial Plating
4 Genesis Chamber
4 Thoughtcast
4 Tangle Wire
4 Thorn of Amethyst

4 Seat of the Synod
4 Gaea's Cradle
3 Ancient Tomb
3 Darksteel Citadel

I might try to bring this to an FNM to see how it plays out, but I'm really liking it so far. You can get some stupidly good opening hands, and Genesis Chamber plays nicely with Tangle Wire. I really wanted Master of Etherium, but opted for Myr Enforcer because its hard to cast MoE sometimes, while Myr Enforcer can come down on turn 1, is usually free, and is a pretty good body.

[kinda]

I think Gaea's Cradle looks really neat. My thoughts were to use it to power out lodestone golem, equipment, and abuse winter orb. Rishadan Port is in there to abuse orb as well since it works with opal under orb or just with your other land as you play things with cradle. I'm not sure what the best splash color would be. White may be better for md stoneforge and sb canonist, rest in peace, or thalia?

Edit 1: -3 though cast, -1 master, -4 steel overseer, +4 porcelain, +2 etched champion, + 2 Garruk.

4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
4 Vault Skirge
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Porcelain legionnaire
3 master of etherium

4 Mox Opal
4 Cranial Plating
3 sword of fire and ice
3 winter orb
4 chalice of the void
1 springleaf drum

4 Seat of synod
4 Gaea's Cradle
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Rishadan Port
2 City of Traitors

[B4L4]

About Windfall : http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Printings.aspx?multiverseid=247532

[adrieng]

I am obviously talking about day's undoing there which I proxyed it up in cockatrice with windfall.

[BBG|Scott-Spain]

So Day's Undoing got 6th Place at StarCityGames.com Premier IQ on 7/19/2015 (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=87937). Here's the list:


3 Day's Undoing
1 Baleful Strix
4 Vault Skirge
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Memnite
4 Mox Opal
2 Etched Champion
2 Springleaf Drum
4 Cranial Plating
3 Arcbound Ravager
2 Thoughtcast
2 Glimmervoid
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Frogmite
3 Chalice of the Void
4 Vault of Whispers
3 Disciple of the Vault
1 Tree of Tales
1 Ancient Den
4 Ornithopter
3 Ancient Tomb

Sideboard
1 Containment Priest
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Whipflare
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Thoughtseize
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Tormod's Crypt


Thoughts?

[contra]

I really like how this deck can splash so many colors. I think going up to 4 glimmervoids and having one or two stoneforge mystics maindeck instead of disciple to fetch cranial would be potent. I'd add a couple of bloodmoons to the sb instead of bridge which doesn't work well with timetwister. I think thoughtcast should be at least 3. The one nexus has some serious synergy with ravager.

[Swan_to_be_kind]

Here's the list I'm testing out to some success:

2 Day's Undoing
4 Vault Skirge
4 Memnite
4 Mox Opal
4 Cranial Plating
3 Thoughtcast
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ancient Den
4 Ornithopter
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Mox Diamond
4 City of Traitors
1 Lightning Greaves
3 Island
1 Snow-Covered Plains
4 Force of Will
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 3 Meddling Mage
SB: 1 Sword of Fire and Ice
SB: 3 Rest in Peace
SB: 3 Misdirection
SB: 1 Sword of Feast and Famine
SB: 2 Enlightened Tutor

[Philipp2293]

Seems like a way too low blue count for FOW, even postboard.

[slave]

Seems like a way too low blue count for FOW, even postboard.
I agree with this. I would think the absolute minimum for FOW to be viable is around 16, but we want more than that to get consistency out of it.

Anyways;
I'm liking Day's Undoing so far.
It's a maindeck option for both boosting your hand, and also a way to slow down (maybe even reset) decks that rely heavily on the graveyard.
It might even allow us to have game against grave-decks in game1 without needing hatebears in the main.
I'm going with the idea that to get the most from it, I'm concentrating on a lower-CMC-average to really pump your hand onto the table ASAP.
I'm testing 4 of them right now, probably too many....:rolleyes:

The only thing I don't like about it is the obvious, which for Storm/fast combo will often be game unless you have some sort of hatebear.

[Nephilim]

Hi,

in the last few weeks I worked on an Affinity list that is quite uncommon. Maybe I should post this in the New and Developmental Decks Thread. If so, then I'm sorry for that, but I would really like to hear your opinions to this. I don't have a sideboard yet and I never tested this list. Nevertheless on paper it looks interesting I think. The card I am unsure about is Cranial Plating . Maybe another Equipment would be better. And I don't know whether 23 Lands is enough for the Mox Diamonds.
Before anybody says it, I know that Null Rod is horrible for this deck, so the sideboard definitely needs something against this card.

Creatures:

3 Baleful Strix
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic

Planeswalker:

2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

Artifacts:

4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Cranial Plating
1 Sword of the Meek
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Thopter Foundry

Lands:

4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Ancient Den
4 Vault of Whispers
3 Seat of the Synod
3 Glimmervoid
2 Academy Ruins

[OlegtheSuper]

What do you think about this kind of an affinity deck?

4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
4 Cranial Plating
4 Mox Opal
3 Erayo, Soratami Ascendant - 4 is too much. Bad draw in early game cuz we still agro. After day's unduing nearly 100% flip.
4 Frogmite
4 Vault Skirge
2 Master of Etherium
2 Signal Pest
1 Thoughtcast
4 Day's Undoing
4 Black Vise
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Den
4 Glimmervoid

Vise base build.
Canonis+vise+erayo+day sounds interesting.

[Echelon]

What do you think about this kind of an affinity deck?

4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
4 Cranial Plating
4 Mox Opal
3 Erayo, Soratami Ascendant - 4 is too much. Bad draw in early game cuz we still agro. After day's unduing nearly 100% flip.
4 Frogmite
4 Vault Skirge
2 Master of Etherium
2 Signal Pest
1 Thoughtcast
4 Day's Undoing
4 Black Vise
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Den
4 Glimmervoid

Vise base build.
Canonis+vise+erayo+day sounds interesting.

Affinity doesn't want to go long, you want to close the game before your opponent gets going.

[OlegtheSuper]

Affinity doesn't want to go long, you want to close the game before your opponent gets going.

This build has all fast kill pack as "classic" agro build.
Plus another angles to kill with day+vise and disrupt with erayo+canonist.

[Curby]

Erayo+Canonist is fundamentally a control deck strategy thrown into an aggro deck. I think the idea would be to optimize your aggro deck instead of diluting it with alternate maindeck victory conditions. It's like saying "Hey, Helm of Awakening and Rest in Peace is a neat two-card combo that also disrupts the opponent and also makes use of Artifacts. Let's throw it in!"

[adrieng]

We know have access to 8 7draws cards with this new command magus + day's undoing. Playing pithing needle maindeck might be a very good idea stopping top against miracle
and wasteland against tempo. This build does crush miracle. There might be a way to improve it though. But I like where it goes chalice breaks the draw 7 here.




4 Ancient Tomb
4 Mox Opal
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Glimmervoid
4 Great Furnace

4 Springleaf Drum
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter

4 Day's Undoing
4 Magus of the wheel

4 Master of Etherium
4 Cranial Plating

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Pithing Needle
4 Phyrexian Revoker

[slave]

We know have access to 8 7draws cards with this new command magus + day's undoing. Playing pithing needle maindeck might be a very good idea stopping top against miracle
and wasteland against tempo. This build does crush miracle. There might be a way to improve it though. But I like where it goes chalice breaks the draw 7 here.




4 Ancient Tomb
4 Mox Opal
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Glimmervoid
4 Great Furnace

4 Springleaf Drum
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter

4 Day's Undoing
4 Magus of the wheel

4 Master of Etherium
4 Cranial Plating

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Pithing Needle
4 Phyrexian Revoker




I can see what you're doing here, but I don't like your draw options at all. Both of them help your opponent way too much. Just imagine them against a Dredge player? You just handed them the game on a plate. It would also help Storm and most combo decks incredibly too. For me, you want the draw to be one-sided, and useful on the turn you play it.
Thoughtcast may feel limited, but it's a better choice than Magus easily. I wouldn't play Days in this deck unless you're running a heap of counter that you can use after you just ended your turn.

I understand you're looking for a different vibe here from the norm, but is 4 CHalice, 4 Revoker & 4 Needle really that useful?
I mean, Needle isn't going to be useful in every matchup, same goes for Revoker. They feel more like sideboard options to me.

Removal is important if you're not running counter. I'd consider your plan B if your opponent gets past all the revoker/chalice/invoker or just simply kills your threats (of which there are few)
This is why I like Tezz, as any of your pieces are now a threat potentially, and I play with Stoneforge to grab Plating/Jitte etc.

[GrimoirePath]

Im building a U/B Affinity deck, and was a little bummed to see this thread hasnt been touched in months. Im tinkering with Dark Confidant and ponder at the moment. My build has Black Vise and Days Undoing as well. I have two Thoughtcast, but figured I would mess around with Ponder to either shuffle away an incoming three dead cards, or to set up Dark Confidant.

I'll post a list later, but is anyone playing Affinity right now?

[Curby]

I think it's like my pet decks of The Gate, Zoo, and Countersliver. Perfectly serviceable in less competitive settings, but highly unlikely to do well at large events. You'll dominate many a kitchen table with such decks though.

[GrimoirePath]

I play RG Lands as my tier one, but I feel like Affinity has the potential, as you said, you take down smaller events, depending on the field.

[Curby]

I think that answers your question re: people playing it though: they're out there. Countersliver and Zoo have seen some recent activity as people try new things, and the same can happen here too. If you have new designs that are working out for you, by all means post about them! Hopefully others will be drawn out of lurking to pitch in.

I only play Affinity in pauper, so I don't have any useful input. I'm basically subscribed just to see what people come up with. :tongue:

Recent posts have the deck drawing a lot of cards: Bob, Undoing, Wheel, Thoughtcast, etc. Is there ever too much library manipulation and not enough muscle? Or is the point to discuss which options make the most sense?

[monovfox]

Why not just play Black vise? Gives the deck reach that it desperately needs IMO.

[GrimoirePath]

My build has four vises and right now, two days undoing. Might go to one.

[Sidneyious]

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/legacy-affinity-01-06-13-2/

Does well, wanted a t3-4 tezz, had a t2 once but I want more aggro as its very glass cannon atm.

I should get another glimmervoid but never had the need really.

[Sidneyious]

Curious question.

Glimmervoid is the land to use but would like to know if thran quarry will work?

I'd like to add a 3rd void but I'm not spending 20$ for a land I can only use in affinity and I just need one more and I have a dozen of these.

Or should I just add another seat? List is one post up.

[monovfox]

Has anyone else thought of taking from the modern playbook and maindecking giraphur aether grid? Don't know how good it is, but it should allow us to dominate the skies in theory, especially if DnT picks up the 3 drop recruiter ^_^

[slave]

In my area, some people use Serenity, so I haven't been playing Affinity for a while. Affinity = Glass-cannon IME.
The last time I took out Affinity I was running a small number Cabal Therapy in the main, but that was a while ago.
If I was going to play Afifnity anytime soon, I'd strongly consider some Abrupt Decay from the side


Curious question.
Glimmervoid is the land to use but would like to know if thran quarry will work?
Never used Glimmervoid myself, always run 4 Drums, 4 Opals.
Thran Quarry has the same problem as Glimmer. I don't like losing my manabase so easily in a format where Terminus and other mass-removal is so prevalent.

I think you might be getting greedy trying to run 4x Master, 4x Etched & 3 Tezz. Your deck will lack the speed to win against faster decks, that a tighter list will, especially with so few mana sources. Signal Pest was never much good when I used to play it.
I used to run 4 Etched, 1 Master from memory (getting UU in this deck isn't always easy) and 3 Tezz (Tezz & Cranial on Etched are main finishers)

Another option you might try is Disciple of the Vault with Arcbound Ravager, but I prefer Tezz ultimate.

Another option for sideboard (one I also used to run) is Ethersworn Canonist, a very good card to run against combo/storm.

Has anyone else thought of taking from the modern playbook and maindecking girapur aether grid? Don't know how good it is, but it should allow us to dominate the skies in theory, especially if DnT picks up the 3 drop recruiter ^_^
Ghirapur Æther Grid
I guess you could tap out everything you have to kill one or two creatures here or there. I dunno, doesn't sound like something I would run.

[monovfox]

Aether grid also makes your lands tap for damage, which against miracles is pretty amazing by itself

[Smea.gol.lum]

Has anyone played Affinity recently?

What are the reasons that Affinity hasn't been competitive anymore in the last years?

Terminus is clearly one of them.
Another one is the inability to deal with opposing threats like Goyf, Gurmag Angler, Jitte, Batterskull etc.
I think that Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast is one of the necessary changes to make Affinity viable again.
It repeatedly gets rid of creatures and artifacts and is hard to get rid of for Miracles.
It can frequently be dropped on turn and must be answered by every non-combo deck.
I see it as a 3 or 4 of in any future list.

[Shawon]

Honestly, the easiest explanation why the deck isn't viable is that it's just too slow for this format, Legacy. If you're not killing the opponent with Inkmoth Nexus, the deck cannot deal 20 or more damage by turn 3 consistently enough. The reason the Affinity archetype does well in Modern is because the rest of the format is 1-2 turns slower such that Affinity can pack disruption post-board and still threaten a decent clock for that format.

Also, against the spectrum of combo decks, Affinity doesn't seem to do that well against them because when it tries to be disruptive to stop the combo deck from killing them its disruption package isn't enough, and when the combo deck is slowed down by disruption, the Affinity deck can't win in time before the combo deck gets out of any hard place.

And frankly, there are two decks that are just flat-out better at killing the opponent faster while being disruptive pre-board: Eldrazi Aggro and Infect.

[slave]

Honestly, the easiest explanation why the deck isn't viable is that it's just too slow for this format, Legacy.
SPOILER
I don't think this card will actually change anything, but Underhanded Designs might be useful in some Affinity builds?
It's the first new spoiled card that made me think of this deck anyway.

[Hopo]

SPOILER
I don't think this card will actually change anything, but Underhanded Designs might be useful in some Affinity builds?
It's the first new spoiled card that made me think of this deck anyway.

If you want to start a discussion about a card that nobody knows, the least you could do is to tell us what the card does.

[monovfox]

If you want to start a discussion about a card that nobody knows, the least you could do is to tell us what the card does.

It doesn't do anything? Wait, no, it does nothing.

[Navsi]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/158/523/636093563232603040.png


Aggressive, refills your hand. Pretty good against combo decks, but not very good friends with Deathrite. Worth testing?

[Curby]

Worth testing?

If you can find an existing card to replace with the new card, then the new card is worth testing. Or, my sig. :wink:

My two cents: it's cheap in mana, but expensive in deck slots. I don't think you can protect it well enough to make good use of its rules text, and if you can't do that, it's hard to justify inclusion. That said, I don't play Legacy Affinity so maybe it's easier to keep alive than I think.

[monovfox]

It might be better than memnite because of the haste?

[slave]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/158/523/636093563232603040.png
I would think it's worth testing with for sure. Not sure what to take out though.

Gearseeker Serpent is another new spoiled card.
Gearseeker Serpent 5UU
"Gearseeker Serpent costs one less man to cast for each artifact you control
5U: Gearseeker Serpent can't be blocked this turn"

It's still not a brilliant choice compared to other options, but we could possibly be dropping this for UU on Turn 2.

[Megadeus]

Been thinking of the RW Legendary chick that has built in Cranial Plating. Seems fun, but legendary kind of sucks. May brew up a list. I guess as long as miracles is a thing then this deck isn't great.

[GrimoirePath]

Pia's Revolution (http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/pias-revolution/) looks like it might fit into an affinity shell. Sac zero drop artifacts to Arcbound ravager and get them back or they take a bolt to the face. Might even be a combo somewhere with disciple of the vault, but thats probably clunky.

[sco0ter]

Anybody tested with Walking Ballista already?

Seems pretty good with Arcbound Ravager.

[ottomanottoman]

New to affinity but walking ballista made me want to find a shell that it works in. I'm torn between MUD or affinity and right now I'm leaning towards MUD because it can grow easier and adds more to that deck than it does to affinity. I've still been impressed with ballista's synergies in affinity though. I think this card has legs in older formats besides vintage.

[mistercakes]

Who wants to help me brew an old style Vial deck list from. Found a turn 2 kill albeit a nut draw

Turn 1

Ancient tomb, ornithopter, spring leaf drum, mox opal, arcbound ravager, disciple of the Vault.

Turn 2, play artifact land, tap Opal, cast walking ballista (2 counters)

Attack with ravager & disciple and sacrifice

Mox, ornithopter, drum, artifact land, springleaf drum (ravager now a 6/6)

Deal 7 combat damage, and opponent lost 5 life from disciple.

Sacrifice ravager and move 6 counters to ballista, 1 life for disciple.

8 counters on ballista... All to face... Opponent takes 8 and 1 from disciple.

22 damage on turn 2.

Thoughts?

I know it would have to be played in a non chalice build, which is undesirable... But you could run Aether Vial. The deck was very powerful back in the day, even after skullclamp was banned.

-rob

[mistercakes]

Been working with this guy's list for a little while as the base. It looks like he's done well several times and there must be something about this or at least when piloted correctly:

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=14425&d=286318&f=LE

So I've worked with this list and am proposing some small changes:


//creatures (20)
4 arcbound ravager
4 ornithopter
4 phyrexian revoker
3 vault skirge
3 walking ballista
2 etched champion

//non-creature artifact (19)
4 cranial plating
4 mox opal
4 welding jar
4 chalice of the void
3 springleaf drum

//spells (4)
4 thoughtcast

//planeswalkers (2)
2 tezzeret, agent of bolas

//land (15)
4 vault of whispers
4 seat of the synod
3 ancient den
4 ancient tomb

//sideboard (15)
4 disciple of the vault
4 thorn of amethyst
3 winter orb
3 ensnaring bridge
1 ethersworn canonist



been goldfishing with the deck a bit and the welding jar, while not obvious seems rather important. being able to protect from wasteland and protecting a chalice will shut many players out of a game, even if they have the abrupt decay. still working with walking ballista to see if it's strong enough without cards that influence counters other than arcbound ravager. could also consider running the 4th vault skirge over the 3rd ballista. i'll probably go back and forth over that, but i like having some semi-removal cards in the deck.

i still will need to test more with his sb approach, i would love to have disciple in the maindeck, but it seems that chalice is more important. will need to figure out what matchups chalice will not be worth it.

anyone else want to test this as well? (i've already got it sleeved up, but would be open to playing on cockatrice/xmage)

[mistercakes]

Paris weekly at troll jeu

3 walking ballista
4 arcbound ravager
3 vault skirge
4 ornithopter
4 phyrexian revoker
2 etched champion

4 cranial plating
4 thoughtcast
4 welding jar
3 springleaf drum
4 chalice of the void

2 tezzeret, agent of bolas

4 mox opal
3 ancient den
4 vault of whispers
4 seat of the synod
4 ancient tomb

Sb
4 disciple of the Vault
3 ensnaring bridge
4 thorn of amethyst
3 winter orb
1 ethersworn canonist



R1 shardless vs Romain (lose dice roll)
Game 1 he mulliganned and kept a 6 hand 1 land (non fetch) + deathrite. He never found another land and died after 4 turns.
Game 2 he had some removal spells and eventually killed me with 3 deathrite shaman. I had ensnaring bridge but never got a revoker for his deathrite. I was hit with a hymn this game.
Game 3 I had a fast draw and used ballista + cranial to attack for a lot (and then ping his liliana. I sacrificed ravager and moved some counters to ballista bc of the Lili.) then it went back and forth. I had a bunch of outs, and draw a tezz. Make the ballista a 5/5 and use the ping ability.* Pretty sure this is how that ended. (not 100%) and was also hit with a hymn this game.

Worth mentioning that welding jar was an all star here.

R2 vs omni show vs Philippe (lose dice roll)
game 1 he has turn 1 show omni and I die.
Game 2 I have a fast hand with disciple and some guys. He casts show and tell and I play the sb thorn of amethyst. He is dead to my next attack. He casts emrakul but is unable to find a kill. He mistakenly attacks, and I deal 6 via disicple + annihilation trigger. He dies.
Game 3 I had a turn 1 vault skirge. Turn 2 ravager and disciple. Turn 3 ballista and kill him on turn 3.

R3 vs Jeremie (lose dice roll)
Game 1 I had a decent game going. He'd doing a lot of brainstorms and force of wills my revoker. He had seen my hand and it prevented me from casting thoughtcast (I had 2).he cabal therapies me and I can't catch up.
Game 2 I have turn 2 chalice, turn 2 revoker naming engineering explosives. He has smash to smithereens and other removal spells. I die.
We play a post sb one for fun and he still crushes me. I had sided in thorns... And after this game I think the correct sb plan is to go very aggro with disciple and cut the chalice plan. Maybe even bring in winter orbs.

R4 vs Stephane (win dice roll)
Game 1 I have a turn 1 chalice + mox opal. He plays a plains. I play a ravager. He plays a karakas + Thalia. I play ballista. He doesn't really recover as he misses his 4th land... He had wasteland my tomb.
Game 2 I cut chalice and go for the aggro build. I have a multiple ravager and welding jar hand. I also draw multiple ballista. He plays an abyssal persecutors and I can't really do anything... But he can't either. He taxi deluged and used a ballista to kill my ravager (1 counter and pithing needle is on ravager.) I move 1 counter to my other ballista and have a 3/3. I eventually draw an ancient tomb. I can start putting counters on my ballista.

I get down to* 9 life and my one ballista has 5 counters. The other is at 2. He attacks me with big flying guy and I go down to 1.

I am pretty sure he has swords so I cant kill him without 8 counters. He's at 7.

So I attack with both ballistas. He blocks one and decays the other (i use two of my 3 welding jars).

Then I decide to go for it. He needs two swords to beat me. I add a counter, and go to - 1 life (ancient tomb... But I live bc of persecutor) then I ping one damage at a time to play around a swords, which he had.

His next card was a 2nd swords. Whew!


Proposed changes:
I never got to draw the etched champion so I'm not sure about it. I would rather run another vault skirge anyway.

-1 champion +1 skirge
-1 champion +1 master of etherium or steel overseer.
-3 ancient den +3 great furnace if red sb or darksteel citadel for better mana. Red options are okay, blood moon or the Enchantment that pings by tapping untapped artifact.....if playing citadel then I would probably run a 2nd overseer or maybe a Jitte.

Both are probably worth testing since welding jar can protect. Master has a stronger immediate effect, but steel is easier on mana base and can come out turn 1 easily. (allowing for better ballista interaction)

Also a nice interaction with darksteel citadel and tezzeret 5/5 ability. Probably the easiest way.


Thanks to opponents, who were all very nice to the strange American.

[mistercakes]

4 walking ballista
4 arcbound ravager
4 vault skirge
4 ornithopter
3 phyrexian revoker
1 steel overseer

4 cranial plating
4 thoughtcast
4 welding jar
3 springleaf drum
4 chalice of the void

2 tezzeret, agent of bolas

4 mox opal
3 darksteel citadel
4 vault of whispers
4 seat of the synod
4 ancient tomb

Sb
4 disciple of the Vault
3 ensnaring bridge
3 thorn of amethyst
3 winter orb
2 grafdigger's cage




R1 dnt. Lost dice roll.

Game 1
He goes turn 1 Vial. I have a fast hand but it's dependent on spring leaf drum. I have a slow hand and he has port and revoker for my drum. Game goes pretty long, and I tezz ultimate but not for lethal. I am dead next turn and draw the ballista ravager combo but he unfortunately has swords #2 in response to my ballista being cast.
Game 2
I drop most of my hand quickly and eventually just kill him. He had a turn 1 Vial but I was able to sneak it out. He drew multiple STP and path to Exile.
Game 3
He had a turn 2 Vial. I was pretty dependent on mox opal and he shut it off via revoker. I never really could recover and had a winter orb out. I died with multiple ensnaring bridge, ravager, and other artifacts in my hand.

R2 lost dice roll
Food chain
Game 1
Not much to say here. He drew deathrite and multiple baleful strix.* When I did play a ballista he played his own and took away my advantage. I had revoker for his deathrite but eventually it died to ballista #2.* Then I died after stupidly putting myself to 7 forgetting his deathrite was still active. I died to 2 deathrite activations and 3 pings from the 2 ballistas. I also recall playing both tezzeret and stupidly not making my citadel a 5/5.* He was able to clear my board and kill it both times immediately.
Game 2
More of the same. He had a Leovold as well. I didn't draw welding jars or anything remotely aggressive enough.

R3 ANT lost dice roll
Game 1
He beat me pretty fast. I think turn 2.
Game 2
I have thorn and revoker on led. I am able to get there with damage over a few turns. Good old hate.
Game 3
I had a turn 1 ballista. (he mulled to 6 and scried to bottom.) turn 1 he cast probe.
Turn 2 I drew chalice and played it along with a land. Attack for 1. He played another land and passed.
Turn 3 I play out a few more artifacts including ravager, make 9/9 ballista and deal 18 out of nowhere.

R4 food chain with emrakul (no ballista) lost dice roll
Game 1
He kills me with a bunch of value cards.
Game 2
I had a pretty explosive hand and killed him after a few turns. Winter orb slowed him down and I topdeck ed a few ravagers.
Game 3 I believe it was some combination of disicple ravager ballista. Winter orb was also critical here.

[Megadeus]

Has cradle been played in this deck? It feels like it could create a ton of mana fairly quickly and create a large Ballista. It also gives access to Green Gearhulk whick is another sick thing with a Ballista, but might change up how the deck wants to play

[mistercakes]

i tried testing cradle in goldfishing, but i rarely was able to get more than 2 mana with it. i think it might be a very good suggestion, but will probably require more 0's and potentially frogmites with a topping out with ballista. gearhulk does seem like it would be a great option. is green gearhulk 5 mana or 6 mana?

edit Verdurous Gearhulk

i'd be tempted to drop the thoughtcasts and run green artifact mana + glimpse of nature then as well to help from getting slaughtered by terminus effects.

i can test it this weekend vs miracles/ANT.

thanks for posting on here, i felt like i was talking to myself...but still wanted to document my matches somewhere.

might be a bit too all-in, but



4 ornithoper
4 memnite
4 frogmite
4 arcbound ravager
4 signal pest
4 vault skirge
4 walking ballista
2 verdurous gearhulk
3 springleaf drum
4 glimpse of nature
4 cranial plating
4 mox opal
4 tree of tales
4 vault of whispers
4 ancient tomb
3 gaea's cradle


could run 4 ancient den instead of vault of whispers if moving plating isn't important and you want white hate bears. cradle also gives you access to some good disenchant effects with all the 0 guys even if null rod is out. i am a little partial to disciple of the vault out of the sb though.


Other option is just changing the previous list slight to accommodate for gearhulk and cradle. Chalice has been good and so has welding jar... But I guess I can see an argument for cutting chalice (to the sb) in favor of a 2/2 split in gearhulk and cradle. Not sure how it will play out, I can certainly goldfish it a bunch for now.



4 walking ballista
4 arcbound ravager
4 vault skirge
4 ornithopter
4 phyrexian revoker
2 verdurous gearhulk
1 memnite
2 cranial plating
4 thoughtcast
4 welding jar
4 springleaf drum
2 tezzeret, agent of bolas

4 mox opal
2 tree of tales
4 vault of whispers
4 seat of the synod
4 ancient tomb
3 gaea's cradle

Sb
4 chalice of the void
3 ensnaring bridge
3 thorn of amethyst
3 winter orb
2 grafdigger's cage



posting here for reference, a modern ballista deck.

4 Arcbound Ravager
3 Arcbound Worker
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Darksteel Citadel
2 Fatal Push
1 Forest
1 Glimmervoid
4 Hangarback Walker
4 Hardened Scales
2 Memnite
4 Mox Opal
2 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
4 Ornithopter
3 Spire of Industry
4 Springleaf Drum
2 Steel Overseer
4 Walking Ballista
4 Winding Constrictor

1 Basilisk Collar
3 Blood Moon
1 Etched Champion
2 Fatal Push
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Natural State
1 Spellskite
3 Thoughtseize

[Megadeus]

I can't say I've ever played Affinity before, but I was just thinking about fast creature dumping, plus a ton of cradle mana to make big ballista, plus gearhulk to go bananas. I was thinking keep thought cast, but maybe glimpse is better? Any way to fit both? Basically full on aggro with like 7-8 draw spells for one?

[mistercakes]

I can't say I've ever played Affinity before, but I was just thinking about fast creature dumping, plus a ton of cradle mana to make big ballista, plus gearhulk to go bananas. I was thinking keep thought cast, but maybe glimpse is better? Any way to fit both? Basically full on aggro with like 7-8 draw spells for one?


i think it is possible. probably have to cut the tezz, which is good vs control matchups, especially when ensnaring bridge is out of the sb. i suppose we can try another list. then the black won't be needed.

i don't think glimpse is better as you'll likely need tree of tales to start off any good turn 1 stuff. (mox opal could potentially, but it would likely have you play some 0 drop creature prior to casting glimpse).

here's my go though:


4 walking ballista
4 arcbound ravager
3 vault skirge
4 ornithopter
3 phyrexian revoker
3 verdurous gearhulk
3 memnite
2 master of etherium
4 mox opal
4 thoughtcast
3 welding jar
3 springleaf drum
2 cranial plating
2 nissa, vital force

4 tree of tales
1 vault of whispers
4 seat of the synod
4 ancient tomb
3 gaea's cradle


sb would then need to be reconfigured a bit. just a suggestion, but nothing set in stone. i like the planeswalkers approach for miracles and bug matchups.

2 garruk relentless
2 krosan grip
3 winter orb
3 ensnaring bridge
3 thorn of amethyst
2 manglehorn

[Megadeus]

I agree. I think Nissa, VF is an incredible card in the format playing it in Nic Fit. Maybe I'll throw it together on Cockatrice and see how it goes. I like the thought of going full elf mode by dumping dudes but also having access to powerful draw spells as well as having a powerful end game in Gearhulk Plus Ballista. Also think Darksteel Citadel is better than Vault of Whispers? Or maybe a man land of some sort?

[mistercakes]

just ran a match on cockatrice with a deck similar to my last edit. played vs blood moon red deck and beat it 2-0. will need some more testing. do you wanna test on cockatrice with some real decks? (also nissa isn't a dead draw with an empty hand unlike glimpse) we don't have symbiotes to do some cheater stuff like elves.

also the singleton vault is good as an artifact (mox draws and ravager) and it also is half the cost of instant speed equip with plating.

will keep track of games.

played g1 vs eldrazi mud, then he disconnected b/c i wasn't playing a tier deck after chalicing me for 0.
played vs miracle of science. beat 2-0
played vs underground sea. then i vomited my hand and he disconnected.
played vs merfolk 0-2 (he had ENERGY field? what year is this)
played vs eldrazi post lost 1-2 (game 1 kept a 1 lander after mull and never recovered). game 3 i had a good start, but he had a spatial contortion for my ballista (looks like i had a turn 3 kill, so i started with ballista instead of ravager)

i only had one game so far (where i had cradle + a green card) during game 1. i did cast garruk relentless a few times. seems fine. and can tutor up ballistas/ravager after it flips. still not sure if i'm sold on it, but will keep trying.

[Megadeus]

Merfolk deck with chalice and vial playing Energy Flux? I mean, get fucked I guess

[mistercakes]

Was thinking the abyss could be great in creature matchups (barring strix)

[Nocioni88]

Im building affinity once again! Some years ago i had a version with Tempered steel, and i had many top8 il local tournament with it. very fast, hyper aggro.


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[Nocioni88]

Maybe with ballista we can brew once again. How it goes with greensplash?


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[mistercakes]

haven't tested any games tonight yet. just been goldfishing. i'm also testing paradoxical outcome with 4 cradles and more memnites.

i still have a strong feeling that the deck is still better with the UB + tezz than with the gearhulk, but will continue to test.

if you're gonna go big you might as well get super greedy. this is the list i will test a bit more.

4 arcbound ravager
4 walking ballista
4 phyrexian revoker
3 verdurous gearhulk
4 disciple of the vault
4 baleful strix

4 mox opal
4 springleaf drum
4 aether vial
4 thoughtcast
2 tezzeret, agent of bolas

4 ancient tomb
4 seat of the synod
4 vault of whispers
3 tree of tales
3 gaea's cradle

sb:
3 ensnaring bridge
3 thorn of amethyst
3 winter orb
2 mandlehorn
2 krosan grip
2 garruk relentless

[Nocioni88]

Do you think vial is good? You have only 11 target with vial on 2. Ballista and gearhulk are impossible to vial out...


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[mistercakes]

I count 15 targets. I would be a bit happier with another good one drop. The old Vial affinity Vial lists ran 16/17 Vial creatures ( other creatures in those lists were frogmite and my enforcer)

Will need to test this a bit more, but Vial is a very powerful card. It's possible I should try the 4th strix over the 4th verdurous to give Vial another target. My other main regret here is not having cranial plating. While it still can be quite brutal on its own, there's quite a bit of removal being played and it's pretty mana intensive.

I do miss the welding jars, as they are quite strong.

For reference the old lists looked like this

1 Glimmervoid
4 Tree of Tales
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
3 Great Furnace
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Disciple of the Vault
3 Atog
2 Myr Retriever
3 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Aether Vial

[mistercakes]

after some more testing i'm not really ready for the green.

current list:


4 walking ballista
4 arcbound ravager
4 disciple of the vault
4 phyrexian revoker
4 baleful strix

4 thoughtcast
4 mox opal
4 springleaf drum
4 aether vial
4 galvanic blast
2 tezzeret, agent of bolas

4 seat of the synod
4 great furnace
4 vault of whispers
4 ancient tomb
1 darksteel citadel
1 academy ruins

sb:

4 thorn of amethyst
3 winter orb
3 ensnaring bridge
3 blood moon
2 pyroblast


the blasts are probably worth running since it can close out a game quicker and also deal with turn 1 DRS and delver.


I also wanted a non green way to stop chalice, but also have some game vs death and taxes. I took 2 copies of dack Fayden. Sure, you have to steal and then sac to ravager, but isn't that satisfying?


in a league

r1 spiral tide:
game 1 win. i only had 1 ancient tomb, eventually drew a 2nd and killed him with attacking ballistas. not very suspenseful. he couldn't find his combo.
game 2 i had a really strong 2 disciple turn 1 and i had turn 2 ravager which he forced. turn 3 strix into ballista. i got him to 1 before he wished for hurkyls.
game 3 had 2 thorns, but only creature i drew was 1 disciple. he beat me on turn 8 or 9. actually i drew 1 disciple, 2 thorn, 2 opal, 1 surgical and lands (so bad luck there) i think had i drawn a ballista, ravager, tezzeret, or winter orb the game was over. 2 thorns in play made his deck extremely fragile to any outs on my end.

[Nocioni88]

I dont like aether vial in this kind of deck, but it is imo. Is it performing well? Usually i have alredy tons of mana, okay, with vial u have istant uncounterable things, but im for cranial instead of vial


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[mistercakes]

It's up to you but I don't feel like this deck is attacking as much as other versions. Plating belongs more in the versions with 4 ornithopter and other evasive creatures. This version is to overplay on the synergies between Vial (2 drops) and raw power of ravager and ballista.

There's a number of ways to play affinity, and I'm not quite sure plating is what this deck wants to do. There's a ton of decks running 6+ removal spells maindeck and unless if you're running welding jars, you shouldn't expect to connect with a plated creature. (unless if you're running etched champion)

[mistercakes]

r1 spiral tide (1-2)
game 1 win
game 2 hurkyls recall (got him to 1)
game 3 had 2 thorns, but only creature i drew was 1 disciple. he beat me on turn 8 or 9. actually i drew 1 disciple, 2 thorn, 2 opal, 1 surgical and lands (so bad luck there)

r2 reanimate (1-2)
game 1 he turn 1 ritual, entomb, animate dead on griselbrand
game 2 side out 4 thoughtcast, 4 galv blast, 2 tezz. bring in 3 bridge, 3 surgical, 4 thorn
he reveals chancellor, i cast ballista for 0. my opening hand is disciple, 2 revoker, surgical.
he unmasks himself and tries to reanimate chancellor. i surgical. he never really recovers.
game 3 opening hand is 2 ballista, vial, ravager, 2 seat, surgical.
he is on play, reveal chancellor. petal, faithless (discarding tidespout, elesh, petal, reanimate elesh. (slow clock)
a very painful long game b/c he doesn't understand how to use his reanimated arcbound ravager + disciple. elesh kept most of my army away. i had him to 1 again because he actually sided out all his artifact hate on the play except for tidespout tyrant, which i exiled after seeing that. given the situation with elesh norn, i needed to get to 6 mana asap (just drawing cards) so i can cast ballista for x=3. unfortunately it took me a bit too long, and despite him having the win pretty easily...he was quite bad and gave me about 3 extra turns. :(

r3 spiral tide (0-2)
game 1 my hand is pretty decent, but don't draw a ravager or disciple and can't kill him fast enough. he's actually going off and if i hit a ravager off of a time spiral i can win,
game 2 i have to mull my first 3 hands due to 0 lands. next hand is unremarkable, i just scoop.

at this point i'm pretty aggravated because i played a match before i joined the league and it was vs....spiral tide. so 3 different spiral tide players out of 4 matches. i can't even understand why someone would play this deck when so many people are playing miracles or leovold decks. i guess they're just hoping they hit all the affinity players!



r4 (2-0)
he's on play, cast volc ponder. i cast tomb ravager (he goes FoW pitch daze..)
he has young pyromancer, but i recover with a 2nd ravager and 2 bolts on his delver/pyromancer.

game 2 he has anglar and some other guys, but i draw a hangarback walker and he can't just steamroll me over.

opening hand, strix, vial, furnace, ravager, thoughtcast, blast, disciple
i'm on the play and go furnace vial...he draws plays tundra and concedes? (wtf is this cockatrice, good b/c my next 3 cards were nonlands)

i cut 4 blast, 4 thoughtcast bringing in 2 orb, 4 thorn, 2 surgical. he concedes match before game starts. GREAT TESTING.

so

spiral tide loss 1-2
reanimator loss 1-2
spiral tide loss 0-2
4c delver win 2-0
Tundra 2-0

[crowe_1]

Have you thought about running a couple of Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast? Since your build is more control-oriented it may be worth looking into; free blockers, free extra artifacts to sac to Ravager, convenient sorcery-speed removal when you need it. His Ult would just win for you in a lot of situations if you could copy Ravager. Or copy Strix for three cards is decent too.

[mistercakes]

i can try that. i just don't own any irl so i hadn't considered. seems good though.

also i played a match vs miracles after in casual room. he beat me 2-0.

game 1 was okay. i had a pretty strong start, went for a turn 3 tezz and he just blind flipped a jace. he then played the jace and tapped out with a snapcaster in play. i chose to play my 2nd tezz over the ravager in my hand figuring he was locking me out of 2 drops, but he had another jace on top.

i had a pretty strong game 2 with thorn + winter orb + ravager + strix. unfortunately for me i couldn't draw a disciple or ballista and though it took him a while, he got an engineered explosives for 2. i didn't draw a revoker either.

[mistercakes]

Bc of the banning I think now ethersworn Canonist is warranted in the 75. It also just make more sense to go away from Vial since no more terminus.

I'll continue testing Vial version to see how it plays out. Little worried due to a likely increase in chalice decks.

[Izor]

What‘s up guys. Anyone still playing this deck in legacy? I have been playing it as a secondary or tertiary choice pretty much forever and as I haven‘t been feeling like playing Storm lately, I took my Affinity list to two locals this month.

The list I‘ve been playing and tuning for a few years at this point makes use of maindeck Gitaxian Probe and Cabal Therapy to fill the hole that desperately needs to be filled to make the deck viable in Legacy. You obviously can‘t just go Modern-mode and expect to aggro your opponents out with a deck that‘s one and a half turns too slow for Legacy.

Therapy improves what I would claim are basically all matchups bar Dredge and a few other specific decks all while Probe lets you play 56 cards in a deck that‘s often looking to find its good cards as fast as possible. After playing Therapy in dozens of other decks before this one I can say that there is no other deck that utilizes (and effectively breaks) the card as well as Affinity due to the existence of the 8 zero-drops. Those dudes are a necessary evil to turn on the rest of your deck, and Therapy gives you something powerful to do with them past turn 2. Going turn 1 Probe into Therapy into 0-drop is hands down one of the most powerful turn 1 plays a fair deck can produce in Legacy.

Anyhow, this post is going to be a mini-double report of the two events I played recently. I had lots of fun and I‘ll definitely keep playing the deck in future events as well.


Event 1: 3 rounds

Round 1 (vs. 4-color Control)

My notes and memories of this event are a little blurry, so it won‘t be as detailed as the second one unfortunately. I win a close game 1 after therapying his counters away and resolving a Tezzeret.

Game 2 we trade some resources early on and we get into a pretty stale board with both players out of cards in hand. My opponent wins the topdeck war drawing Goyf into Brainstorm into True-Name and Fatal Push while I find mana sources off the top.

Game 3 was an incredibly close game in which we once again traded resources. I was sort of on the backfoot the entire game due to being on the play and having mulliganed. I had drawn one of my 2 Nexus early and couldn‘t cast Thoughtcast the turn it mattered, followed by my opponent topdecking Hymn and getting rid of it plus a Champion. In the end we‘re once again out of cards and my opponent has a DRS plus True-Name staring down my board of Cranial Plating plus lands. My opponent ends up losing the topdeck war this time, with him bricking for 3ish turns while I find more lands to pump my plated-up Nexus. I end up killing him (I think for exacsies?) being at 1 life myself.

2-1 (2-1) - 1-0 matches

Round 2 (vs Death and Taxes)

Game 1 sees me draw the kind of hand that can‘t really lose against a fair deck line DnT. I drop the old Land + Drum + Opal + Threat turn 1, resolve 2 Thoughtcasts early on and eventually beat down with a plated-up Champion.

Game 2 was much more competitive and close and it had the biggest stalemate I had ever witnessed in this matchup. We both had a board full of creatures but at the same time we completely blocked off each other‘s best cards. My opponent had resolved two Stoneforges, but her Batterskull was blocked by my Champion while her Jitte was needled. Meanwhile, my Champion couldn‘t attack because of her Revoker in play and said revoker shut down my Tezzeret on board. We basically topdeck warred, my opponent trying to find the second Council‘s Judgment (1st one already killed one Champion) and me trying to find either more Champions or something to pump my Champion on board. I ended up finding a Ravager and started pumping it up one by one to make Champion big enough. She tries to Swords it in resp to the last (and lethal) counter being added, I sac it in response, she tries to Vial in a Flickerwisp trying to target it and I explain that Ravager sacrificing itself is a cost, so she can‘t react to it. She scoops, revealing her 2nd Judgment as the top card. Welp. She complains about it for a little and I tried to explain that I had 4 Champions in my deck against her two Judgments, plus 7 pump effects I could draw into to win immediately.

2-0 (4-1) - 2-0 matches

Round 3 (vs Elves)

Playing against my brother in the finals, we know each other‘s decks inside out and we‘ve played the matchup countless times. Last time we played I crushed him, but the matchup is very swingy and depends a lot on who simply draws better (aka if Elves finds their tutor off the top fast enough after being therapied). My draws kinda end up failig me in this match, which is just something that happens with this deck. I lose game 1 in pretty fast fashion without much defense (no therapies).

Game 2 my matchup improves due to my sideboard cards, but I ended up mulliganing into a very risky 1-lander. I did end up finding the land after scrying a spell away, but my two lands are both non-artifacts and my development is very slow. I had a therapy which I used to strip his NO and his Green Sun‘s and I eventually had a plated-up Skirge in play that goes to work. We‘re already joking about how this game once again comes down to Elves topdecking a tutor for the win or not, as is so often the case. On the last turn before he dies to the skirge he slowrolls his top card, looks at it… and apologizes. It was a Natural Order.

0-2 (4-3) - 2-1 matches

I still ended up getting 2nd and one of my EMA prize boosters awards me a Sneak Attack. Fair enough.


Event 2 (4 rounds)

I play exactly the same list, partly because it felt really well-tuned, partly because I had no time to actually change anything before the event.

Round 1 (vs. MUD)

I roll my eyes as I get paired against a good friend of mine who always plays Chalice.dec and who always wins the die roll against me, which, in case you‘re unfamiliar, is pretty much all it comes down to when small robots are up against big robots. He obviously wins the die roll again, I obviously stare at the perfect hand with turn 1 land – drum – Orni – Opal – Vault Skirge – Thoughtcast – Therapy. He obviously goes turn 1 Chalice @0 plus Chalice @1. I miss my 2nd land drop and he drops Wurmcoil on turn 3. Onto the next one.

Game 2 I have a powerful hand again, but this time I‘m on the play and I get a flying creature equipped with a Plating going before his pretty slow hand (mulled to 6 too) does much of anything.

Game 3 he‘s obviously back on the play and I have to mulligan. My hand is pretty strong, but not exactly a match for his turn 1 Metalworker into turn 2 Steel Hellkite. When I‘m looking to chump for a few turns he also has a Forgemaster and Blightsteels me out.

1-2 (1-2) - 0-1 matches

Round 2 (vs. Sneak and Show)

My opponent goes turn 1 Volc, go. I go turn 1 Probe into Therapy into Ornithopter. Show and Tell plus Emrakul hit the bin (he did have the sol land for the turn 2 kill) and my turn 3 Tezzeret seals the deal before he can rebuild.

Game 2: My opponent once again goes turn 1 land, go. I have the nut opening again, but this time he Forces my first Therapy after I probed him. This is why you almost always play the zero-drop after the Therapy. He had the turn 2 Sneak Attack and was hoping I couldn‘t flashback on the same turn. Ends up I did though, and the turn ended up terrible for him, losing his Force and his Brainstorm while I also got his Sneak Attack. He also probably should have Brainstormed in resp to my Therapy instead of Forcing right away, but he didn‘t want to risk not finding a blue card and/or me calling the 50/50 correctly and getting the combo piece he needed to keep in hands in order to win next turn.

2-0 (3-2) - 1-1 matches

Round 3 (vs. 4-colored Delver)

I win the die roll for the first (and only) time of the day and I have a decent curve which unfortunately doesn‘t involve any Therapies. We sort of just drop things into play and get into a racing situation, but I end up resolving a Tezzeret after Probing him multiple times and knowing he had no counters. I +1 and find a Plating to go with my flyers in play, but I had to tap down in order to do so and if his Delver blind-flipped on the first chance he could kill my Tezz with it plus his DRS. His Delver does flip with FoW (not what I wanted to see, having that Plating in hand), but he goes in the tank. It appears that he somehow thought he could race me and he opted to use his DRS for mana to cast Pyromancer plus 2nd DRS and his Delver to attack me instead of Tezzeret. This way I was dead on board next turn (had lost tons of life to phyrexian mana), but I just -4‘d Tezzeret to drain for 12 and put my opponent down to 1. He draws and scoops. Had he not misplayed here I would have still been slightly ahead on board and in the damage race, but he may have had a chance to topdeck out of it still.

Game 2 was an odd game and it unfortunately wasn‘t very competitive. My opponent keeps a hand with 2 Volcanics as his only lands and double-Daze, Bolt and Ancient Grudge as his castable spells. Can‘t fault him for that, however, he ends up drawing zero fetchlands and zero cantrips in the first 5-6 turns of the game and instead racks up several uncastable black spells in his hand. My hand was weak because I was totally flooded, but that ended up being exactly what I needed against a hand with double Daze and nothing. I slowly resolve my beef playing around the Dazes and my opponent doesn‘t even find his green source to flashback Grudge by the time I resolved my 2nd Plating to equip my Champion. I feel bad for him, but at the same time there has to be a cost that comes with playing 2 Volcanics and Deathrite/Abrupt Decay in the same deck.

2-0 (5-2) - 2-1 matches

Round 4 (vs. Grixis/4-color Reanimator)

I don‘t expect to win much in this matchup, even though I do have 8 premium sideboard cards for it. Little did I know that this match would deliver me one of the most awesome stories I‘d ever tell.
I lose the die roll and prepare to scoop turn 1, holding a decent but slow Probe + Therapy + zero-drop hand. My opponent casts Looting off a Petal and discards two non-Fatties. There‘s hope. I take my turn and see his hand consisting of 2nd land, 2 Petals and Reanimate. After thinking about it for a long time I decide to leave him with the Reanimate and only take the Petals. Without the Petals he couldn‘t flashback Looting and for his Reanimate to do something he basically had a 1-turn window to topdeck either exactly Entomb or Looting into fatty. I desperately needed the zero drop still in play on my turn 2 because my mana worked out in a way that would let me cast a Thoughtcast cheap and follow it up with some action I could draw into, while without it there was a decent chance I just had to pass with no play. My opponent does end up drawing the Looting off the top, but he whiffs again, allowing me to take his Reanimate on my turn. His next turn saw him topdeck Entomb for Elesh Norn.
He only had to topdeck a reanimation spell now and I had a difficult decision. I could either cast and equip a Plating to my Skirge to beat down hard and fast, or I could drop a Ravager instead which would potentially let me survive an Elesh Norn in play. I decide to do the former, trying to give him one less draw step to find something, but he draws Animate Dead off the top immediately and Elesh hits play. I have exactly one out now, and that‘s one of my 3 copies of Tezzeret. After getting hit by Elesh a bit and him not drawing any major follow-up, I manage to topdeck my favorite planeswalker and make a 5/5 (effectively a 3/3) to go with my Plating in play. Unfortunately I didn‘t have a Citadel and I was also tapped out and couldn‘t equip the Plating right away, so I couldn‘t wall the Elesh and either had to chump or let my Tezzeret die when he attacked on his turn. I decided to let Tezzeret go, because chumping didn‘t accomplish anything. On my turn I suit up the 3/3 and force him to trade his Elesh for it, then resolve a Ravager. My opponent finds another reanimation spell right away (there may have been some Lootings involved here, I don‘t quite remember) and gets Elesh back into play, forcing me to sac almost my entire board to make Ravager big enough to block Elesh without dying. I can‘t really attack into it though, so I pass. My opponent topdecks again and he reanimates a Tidespout Tyrant, but has no spell to follow up to bounce my Ravager.
I draw a random artifact that makes my Ravager big enough to attack and force a block. Having a Champion in hand, I decide to to kill Elesh when he double-blocks. Elesh and Ravager gone, Tidespout still in play, my opponent at 2 life, me having Champion in hand but only 2 lands in play. Dicey.
I do manage to topdeck my 3rd land before he finds yet another way to make a fatty and I take game 1. Beating Elesh Norn plus Tidespout Tyrant in play with a deck with lots of creatures, zero of which are bigger than 2/2? No big deal at all…

Game 2 has him mulligan to 5, but that 5 involves Land, Petal, Looting (discarding Griselfather), Dark Ritual, Exhume. Not bad eh? Not as good as my opening-hand Surgical Extraction, though. 3 Griselbrands in exile later I take my first few turns and do some Affinity stuff. He topdecks Entomb and bins Elesh at some point, but this time I already had a Ravager and enough artifacts in play when he reanimates it a turn later. Once again almost my entire board is gone, but I do have that 8/5 Ravager in play with it, a Plating and a land being my only permanents in play. At some point his life is low enough that he has to chump block, but I can‘t follow up with much because I still only have that one land. He reanimates it again (that‘s like the 5th or 6th time Elesh has entered the battlefield this match now?) but he has to chump again. Only then do I draw my 2nd Surgical (timely, timely) and I‘m just praying he doesn‘t find some way to deal with my Ravager now. He draws and finally offers the handshake. He looks at the top card of his deck and shows me Abrupt Decay. Phew.

2-0 (7-2) - 3-1 matches

Ended up going 3-1 (7-2 in games) and got 5th winning some store credit. I spend our way home complaining to my friend (the round 1 MUD one) that my lost die roll against him kinda ruined my tournament, because I didn‘t end up dropping a single game after that while he ended up losing 3 in a row (die rolls as well as matches… That‘s Chalice.dec decks for you, gentlemen…). My therefore low opponent score meant I got last out of the 4 people with a 3-1 record. Welp. At least I had tons of fun and one of the most awesome matches I ever had.


Seriously though, Probe plus Therapy is incredibly powerful in this deck and, as you saw in the report, makes games and matchups winnable that Affinity has no business winning otherwise. I can only encourage people to try it out if they like to play the deck in Legacy still. With Miracles gone there‘s definitely one more reason to do so. I‘ll keep tuning and playing the deck for sure, because I love the deck (much more than the lame linear Modern-version).

Thanks for reading.

[mistercakes]

i think i'm the only other person actively posting on this forum, but would be happy to continue testing. what was your list?

edit: i remember playing cabal therapy in old extended affinity many years ago! i'm glad you're testing it.

[Izor]

Edited the report a little to get rid of spelling mistakes and such.

My list was the following:

4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Darksteel Citadel
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
2 Glimmervoid
4 Mox Opal
4 Springleaf Drum

4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
4 Vault Skirge
3 Arcbound Ravager
3 Etched Champion

4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Thoughtcast
4 Cranial Plating
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

SB:
1 Arcbound Ravager (for any MUs with lots of removal and any MU where I board Surgery and/or Champion)
1 Etched Champion (any fair decks with no ways to deal with him)
2 Pithing Needle (Stoneforge decks and random Jitte decks, Sneak Show, Lands, Painter, etc)
2 Ratchet Bomb (Elves, Merfolk, Chalice decks, sometimes Delver)
1 Darkblast (Elves, Death and Taxes, Pyro Delver, etc. Seriously, this card just solo's those decks)
1 Thoughtseize (5th discard spell against combo or when I know they have Null Rod)
2 Invasive Surgery (Sneak and Show, Elves, Storm, Reanimator. Note that a Ravager in play pretty much guarantees Delirium, which is why he always comes in alongside them)
2 Surgical Extraction (Dredge, Storm, Reanimator, Lands and Show and Tell as well as other combo decks against which I can discard a combo piece and then extract it)
1 Tormod's Crypt (Dredge, Reanimator, etc.)
1 Grafdigger's Cage (Elves, Dredge, Reanimator, etc)
1 Blood Moon (Lands, 12-Post and most 3/4-colored decks on the play)


I'm not really 'testing' Therapy at this point. I've been playing Affinity with 4 of them in the main deck since New Phyrexia came out (EDIT: Actually I lied, I did play 4 Missteps first when NPH was released). Therapy is my favorite Legacy card and I have lots of experience playing it in all kinds of decks, including Dredge, Storm and Pyro-Delver, which certainly helps me maximize its value. The list above hasn't really changed a ton over the last few years. I recently added the 4th Skirge to the main and moved the 4th Champion to the side. I sometimes play 60 cards with only 3 Citadels, but when I expect lots of wastelands I go up to 61 with 4 of them. Cutting the 4th Skirge again would also be a way to get to 60, but I'm currently happy with the main deck and don't feel the need to change it.
The sideboard has changed over time, obviously. I cut the 3rd Needle when Top got banned, Surgery is relatively new and used to be some mix of Spell Pierce and/or more discard. Darkblast is relatively new as well. I used to run some number of Canonists and more Blood Moons, but the color requirement was a little too high for my liking and Canonist also doesn't synergize with Probe+Therapy, the latter of which are significantly stronger than Canonist overall and aren't worth boarding out/cutting for it. Spellskite is always a consideration because Infect is probably my worst matchup (unless they never draw Berserk or Stalker to get through my infinite chump blockers), but it's very narrow otherwise. Winter Orb was a strong contender when Miracles was around, but now I think it's also too narrow. Ensnaring Bridge is fine, but I prefer to use proactive disruption to prevent fatties from coming into play rather than forcing them to draw 7 until they find their removal spell for it.


EDIT:
If you'd like some feedback on your list you posted above. I highly dislike running straight 3 colors nowadays, because even with 8 rainbow sources you'll still get screwed more often than not, and in my opinion a third color doesn't really add enough to justify that. Citadel is really powerful both in conjunction with Tezzeret as well as against Wasteland. Wasteland makes it very easy for your opponent to screw you off of a color if you run 3 colors with no Citadels. Red gives us Blasts, which is fair enough, but especially when you're not really looking to burn your opponent out with them very often they just aren't very good. I'd rather dominate combat with Champions, Ravagers and pumped Vault Skirges than trying to 1-for-1 their creatures all the time. This is also why White is unnecessary (Dispatch) and Green has nothing exciting for the deck anyway.
I tried running a 2-drop centered Vial version a long time ago, but I was never satisfied with how clunky those lists are. Strix and Revoker are just often bad and easy to deal with when they're good in a lot of matchups. The Disciple + Ravager + Ballista combo is nice on paper and I'm sure it's great when you can make it work, but the problem with it is that every individual card is just very bad on its own in your deck. Disciple literally does nothing relevant without Ravager (which is the reason why people moved away from it a long time ago), Ballista is just not an eternal playable card without any +1/+1-counter enhancers like Constrictor and even Ravager is weaker in your list because you don't have anything good to put the counters on (Skirge, Champion, etc). I'm not saying the +1/+1 counters plan isn't viable, I'm sure there's a way to make that work and have a functional Legacy deck, but looking at your list it seems to me that your deck isn't very... focused. You're trying to make that combo work, and that's good, but the rest of your deck doesn't really support that very much. Strix and Revoker are clunky 2-drops that try to play an entirely different kind of game than the other part of your deck that is essentially trying to burn your opponent out. You're combining a Tezzeret-midrange build with a combo-finish burn-you-out style of Affinity and I'm not sure how consistently good that deck can be. Vial and Drum have historically been cards you don't run together. Either you have lots of zero drops and run Drum, or you have lots of two drops and run Vial. I don't see a creature that you're really happy about tapping for a Drum in your deck. What makes Drum good in something like my list is that it enables me to spend a total of 4 mana on threats between turns 1 and 2. Also, 4 Ancient Tomb and 4 Baleful Strix in the same deck are kind of asking for trouble.
Also, did I miss Plating somewhere in your list? Don't play Affinity without Plating, it's literally the best card in the deck.

[mistercakes]

i agree on all your points. for reference the last time i was using affinity competitively was with this list. the others are just brews i was screwing around with on modo.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?12604-Deck-Affinity&p=999924&viewfull=1#post999924


3 walking ballista
4 arcbound ravager
3 vault skirge
4 ornithopter
4 phyrexian revoker
2 etched champion

4 cranial plating
4 thoughtcast
4 welding jar
3 springleaf drum
4 chalice of the void

2 tezzeret, agent of bolas

4 mox opal
3 ancient den
4 vault of whispers
4 seat of the synod
4 ancient tomb

Sb
4 disciple of the Vault
3 ensnaring bridge
4 thorn of amethyst
3 winter orb
1 ethersworn canonist


keep in mind with the winter orbs as they were in there for the miracles metagame..which is a lot of miracles and a lot more abrupt decay. there's a lot of merit for the 2 color version with what you mentioned. with 4 welding jars you can circumvent wasteland and protect your colored mana. it is possible that i can try this list with citadels. the chalice functions in a similar way to the probe/therapy package you run.

the deck does struggle a bit from time to time with just finding the black/blue at the right time.

anyway, would love your thoughts on this version, as it's a version i've taken to tournaments and enjoy. (and less of a brew!)

btw here's my latest brew:


4 walking ballista
4 arcbound ravager
4 winding constrictor
4 arcbound worker
3 steel overseer
2 hangarback walker
1 ornithopter

4 hardened scales
4 cabal therapy
4 tangle wire
4 mox opal
3 springleaf drum

4 blooming marsh
4 llanowar wastes
4 tree of tales
4 vault of whispers
3 ancient tomb

SB
3 surgical extraction
3 fatal push
2 nature's claim
3 abrupt decay
2 engineered plague
2 hangarback walker



been rather fun. also constrictor + tangle wire = 5 counters. really pleased with this interaction.

[Izor]

That list looks much better and closer to mine as well, the main difference being the Chalice package over the Therapy package and the revokers.

I have never been a fan of Revoker in general because its very often just a 2 mana Pithing Needle that dies to creature removal. The body is often irrelevant against anything but the actual zero creature decks and the effect is dead in too many matchups. It's also just very clunky at 2 mana.

Welding Jars have a similar problem in that they're dead cards in a pretty large amount of cases. Pre-board, every unfair deck in the format as well as Elves, Lands, Death And Taxes as well as Stoneblade and other white-based fair decks do not care about it, and that is already enough reasons not to play it main, let alone 4 copies. It's a purely reactive card that has no text until its very specific application comes up and that application simply won't come up a lot of the time. I simply don't play situational and often dead cards like Revoker or Jar in Legacy.

The choice between the Chalice and Therapy package is certainly disputable. In a vacuum both have their pros and cons, however, I think they always have to be evaluated with the specific deck in mind. Even if Chalice was a better disruption strategy than Therapy overall, this may not necessarily be true for Affinity.
In fact, Chalice is way worse in Affinity than it is in other decks, because you have spells of all CMCs in your deck yourself. While Chalice @1 is doable, Chalice @0 and @2 are really harmful for your own deck. I'd leave that to the decks that can actually get full value out of the card, like MUD or Eldrazi. In fact, Chalice Affinity is hardly more than a different and mostly worse version of colorless Eldrazi.
Therapy, however, is a lot better in Affinity than it is in other decks due to the abundance of fodder for its flashback cost. There is no other deck in the format that can cast Probe into double Therapy on turn 1 without generating card disadvantage. For a deck to survive and be viable in Legacy it has to provide something very powerful and it has to do what it does better than all other decks in the format. Therapy Affinity does that, Chalice Affinity doesn't, at least in my opinion. But to each their own.

EDIT: I also don't think that 1 copy of Canonist in the side is a reason to play Dens over Citadels. Not at all, actually.

[mistercakes]

The revoker is there because it shuts down deathrite shaman and random other effects. the other big one is lion's eye diamond. the ability for welding jar to protect any of the cards in your deck has a lot of value. whenever i played the card both my opponent and i agreed it was one of the strongest permanents on the board.

you can get away with ensnaring bridge after board because of the welding jars. then they need to draw multiple removal spells for 1 bridge.

the maindeck isn't really my list. there's another guys list on mtgdecks that i saw was consistently t8'd events with it. i only swapped a few cards from it. the ballista has always been a threat. it eats FoW's, and obviously with ravager is quite powerful. with the increase in removal-based decks it might warrant squeezing back in the number of etched champions, but i like the idea of having some form of removal in the deck (esp vs planeswalkers).

anyway, it's a difference in philosophy at this point. your list looks fun and i will probably try it at some point, but i have more fun with ballista.

[Izor]

Revokers are totally playable, even if I find them too clunky and too irrelevant as Plating/Ravager targets, I simply don't like the card because of my own experiences with it. It's bad way too often for my liking and in many situations you don't even hit what you wanted to hit blindly. I see it more of a sideboard card, like Needle, because the chance is very high that if you drop it turn 2 against Unknown it just won't even have a textbox, because either your opponent doesn't have the card you named, didn't draw it, just shuffles it away with Brainstorm or just kills Revoker to play it anyway. All 4 of those things have to go exactly your way or it's just a 2 mana Needle.

What I like doing myself when playing against Revoker is tricking my opponent into naming the wrong card, and it's sad how often this actually works. Not because the opponent is bad though, but because they have no other choice. Sure, I'll run out that Deathrite and let you revoke it when all I'm really trying to do is take over with that Jace in my hand. I'll also drop a Petal for no reason with my storm deck just so people name that instead of the two LEDs in my hand. Sure, they could mind-read you or do the 'correct' play and name the worst possible card for them anyway, but then there's a decent chance that they played Revoker into an open activated ability and, again, just randomly named something you don't even have.

I'll hold my point on Welding Jar. It's a card without a text box a lot of the time and I refuse to play cards like those in a format like legacy. The combo matchup of that Affinity list is absolutely abysmal because Chalice is the only real interaction and even that can't be cast @1 turn 1 a lot of the time. I'm playing the heavy discard package main, have no dead Jars and still dedicate 7-8 cards in my sideboard to all those combo matchups, and there's a reason for that. Your chance to open a keepable hand with Chalice is under 40%. The chance that you have either Tomb or Opal + artifact land + zero drop is not much higher. Your actual chance to play a turn 1 chalice is therefore likely around the 20% mark.

I played a singleton copy a while ago and it never stayed in the deck for more than a few matches, because of how irrelevant the effect was. If you have different experiences with it sure, keep playing it, but mine were very bad. Champion doesn't die, Tezz can't be regenerated, Ravager doesn't care about dying most of the time, if one of your redundant low drops get bolted you also couldn't care less. I'm not even looking to do creature combat with the deck, because I'm just trying to kill in one or two big hit(s) once I have the necessary evasion/reach for it. Regenerating a Wasted land is alright, but a smart opponent will just take advantage of it. Either they just won't waste and use the mana for their own spells, or they'll target your land because they want you to waste the Jar on something they didn't even care about. The only situations where it would actually be consistently good is when they try to kill your Plating with Decay or some sideboard hate card, and that application is too narrow for me. On top of that, Affinity is already a deck that is terrible at mulliganing and which has very high requirements for its opener and playing 4 Welding Jars immensely increases the number of awkward speculative hands you have to keep just to brick on draws for 3 turns and lose. 2 Lands, Opal, Ornithopter, Revoker, double Welding Jar is an abysmal hand that has no game against the vast majority of the field unless you're lucky and topdeck out of it. Sure it can work out, but if you're actually trying to maximize your chances to win matches and the tournament, you have to avoid having too many of those hands.

[Scott]

For anyone adventurous with an affinity for Affinity...

Top 8 (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD07767W/) in a 98-person tournament (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/deck/search.aspx?search.x=true&tournament_name=%E3%83%AC%E3%82%AC%E3%82%B7%E3%83%BC%E7%A5%9E%E3%83%88%E3%83%A9%E3%82%A4%E3%82%A2%E3%83%AB+-+2017%2f06%2f03&format=Legacy) a few days ago:

// Land (16)
4 Ancient Den
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Glimmervoid
4 Great Furnace

// Creature (21)
4 Akiri, Line-Slinger
4 Arcbound Ravager
3 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
2 Pia Nalaar
4 Vault Skirge

// Enchantment (4)
4 Blood Moon

// Artifact (19)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cranial Plating
2 Ghirapur Orrery
4 Mox Opal
3 Smuggler's Copter
2 Springleaf Drum

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 2 Etched Champion
SB: 3 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Wear // Tear
SB: 1 Whipflare
SB: 1 Ghirapur AEther Grid
SB: 2 Winter Orb

[jarvisyu]

For anyone adventurous with an affinity for Affinity...

Top 8 (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD07767W/) in a 98-person tournament (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/deck/search.aspx?search.x=true&tournament_name=%E3%83%AC%E3%82%AC%E3%82%B7%E3%83%BC%E7%A5%9E%E3%83%88%E3%83%A9%E3%82%A4%E3%82%A2%E3%83%AB+-+2017%2f06%2f03&format=Legacy) a few days ago:

// Land (16)
4 Ancient Den
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Glimmervoid
4 Great Furnace

// Creature (21)
4 Akiri, Line-Slinger
4 Arcbound Ravager
3 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
2 Pia Nalaar
4 Vault Skirge

// Enchantment (4)
4 Blood Moon

// Artifact (19)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cranial Plating
2 Ghirapur Orrery
4 Mox Opal
3 Smuggler's Copter
2 Springleaf Drum

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 2 Etched Champion
SB: 3 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Wear // Tear
SB: 1 Whipflare
SB: 1 Ghirapur AEther Grid
SB: 2 Winter Orb

Is that supposed to be Ghirapur Orrery in the maindeck or Ghirapur AEther Grid?

[mistercakes]

sorry for the delay. didn't realize someone else posted the japanese guy's list already.

it looks like orrery. with 4 blood moon and 4 chalice it's possible your opponent won't get to take advantage of the orrery, but it's possible you can recall every turn. grid in the sb with winter orb also looks pretty great.

[crowe_1]

Went 3-1 at a small local tournament last night. Here's my half-remembered report.

Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard

Creatures:21
4 Ornithopter
4 Walking Ballista
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Vault Skirge
2 Etched Champion
3 Master of Etherium

Spells:23
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Lotus Petal
4 Mox Opal
4 Cranial Plating
2 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Thoughtcast

Lands:16
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Glimmervoid
1 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers

Sideboard:15
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Whipflare
1 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
3 Ensnaring Bridge

Round 1 vs Aluren:

Game One: I played through a bunch of Strix and removal. Managed to stay in the game with Daretti, Tezzeret and Ballista, even through a resolved Jace TMS. We were going even and I think things were about to swing in my favour but then he slammed Aluren and combo'd off. I figured he was on Shardless but no. Couldn't have done anything anyway.

Game Two: I board in three Canonist and three Revokers; out one each of my other creatures.
I get turn one Canonist, turn two Master of Etherium. He gets turn one Dryad Arbour off GSZ and turn two Rec Sage on the Master, then plays Revoker naming the Cranial Plating I just laid on my turn 3. My next two natural draws are both more Cranial Platings, and that's all she wrote. Beat down by flyers.

0-1 matches
0-2 games

Round 2 vs Elves:

Both games I landed Walking Ballista and Daretti and pinged a bunch of his creatures. Guy talked so much I literally forgot to board game two but it didn't matter. He landed Rec Sage both games but it was too late.

1-1 matches
2-2 games

Round 3 vs Lands:

Game One I quickly deploy two Ravagers and Vault Skirge but he had a Punishing Fire for the Skirge, which I sac to Ravager. He drops Tabernacle on his third turn, and I sac one Ravager to make the other a 4/4 before dropping Plating. He never finds an answer.

Game Two I board in three Tormod's Crypt and three Revokers. I decide against boarding in Bridge because while it saves me from Marit Lage it slows me down, and I'm not winning the long game. Out with Darettis and Ballistas.
Opponent drops two Sphere of Resistance in his first two turns but I'm able to play through it by paying for Moxes and Petals. He keeps himself slowed down enough that I get there through two Maze of Ith with Ornithopter, Skirge, Master and a Plating.

2-1 matches
4-2 games

Round 4 vs Junk Depths

Game One I mull to five with no lands but a Mox opal. It's a playable hand with one land and I'm on the draw with a scry, so I keep it. Opponent leads on Thoughtseize and takes my Mox. I draw no mana and lose to a 20/20.

Game Two I board in 3x Tormod's Crypt, 2x Ensnaring Bridge, 3x Revoker. Out with 4x Chalice, 3x Master of Etherium, 1x Ravager

I start with Tomb, Petal, Mox, Ravager, Ornithopter. He Wastelands my land. I play another land and a Ravager; he Wastelands my land. Luckily, I'm having the opposite problem from last game and flooding out. He finally gets to his second land and Abrupt Decays a Ravager which I sac to the other to pump it by +2/+2. I swing for four next turn after sacrificing a land to Ravager. He plays Sylvan Library and Thoughtseize, tapping out at 14 life while I have a lone Ravager and an Ornithopter to attack. I topdeck Ballista and kill him by sacrificing everything to Ravager for a hit for 10, then moving counters to Ballista and pinging for 10.

Game Three was a long one. He plays Mox Diamond, Wasteland. I land Thopter plus Ravager early off Seat, Opal, Petal. He Wastelands my land. Next turn he plays a Sylvan Library. I play Ancient Tomb and Tezzeret, using his +1 and keeping Ornithopter, which I cast. He plays Vampire Hexmage and kills my Tezzeret. Same happens to a Daretti, but it at least took out a few creatures first. Opponent Deluged away my board at one point but Thoughtcast found me more beaters. I eventually had two Vault Skirge and two Ornithopter with a Plating. Opponent had two Mazes and delayed dying by keeping me off black so I couldn't move Plating as an instant. He actually Wasted his own Urborg at one point to keep me off black. Was pretty funny. He got his Lage the same turn I found a second black source and swung with four flyers. He couldn't stop all and died to the instant-speed attach.

3-1 matches
6-3 games

Overall the deck is super fun. Unloading most of your hand on the first turn nearly always makes your opponent's eyes pop. Observations:

- Marit Lage is not exactly an all-star against Affinity due to all the flyers for chump-blocking and the ease of going over 20 life. They sometimes can't even attack you because you'd kill them on the backswing.
- I had a lot of mulligans due to no lands or one land. Not sure I'd want to add more though. Flooding is really bad in this deck because you need every card you can get.
- Thoughtcast is not fair. Miracles jumps through hoops to get two cards for two mana off Predict. We get two cards for one mana. Can't imagine not playing four.
- Walking Ballista offers irreplacable utility. This deck easily gets to four mana so he can often ping every turn. The synergy with Ravager is potentially game ending.
- This list plays a lot of bombs between the four Planeswalkers, three Master of Etherium, and four Cranial Plating; even Ravager and Ballista are sometimes must-answer. It's difficult for some decks to keep up, especially when you're clogging the board with free flyers and walls.
- This deck makes trading cards tricky for the opponent. Killing Ballista will often result in him pinging an x/1 on the way out; Tezzeret replaces himself immediately; Ravager makes opposing removal a net positive (you go even 1-for-1 on cards but you get a +1/+1 counter); and Daretti takes out a relevant creature every turn until it dies.

That is all. May your Opals always find Metalcraft.

[Fjaulnir]

Re flooding/manascrew: (bl)inkmoth nexus like in Modern?

[crowe_1]

^
Maybe. I'm not sure yet whether to chalk the mana screw up to variance. Deck would take some re-working if Blinkmoths or Inkmoths were added. One or two might be possible.

[mistercakes]

My build a few months ago was pretty similar. Glad you tried a ballista build. Good idea with lotus petal, I didn't think about that one.

It looks like they take the place of the welding jars... Which whose value declined a lot after everyone stopped playing 4 Abrupt decay in every deck. (still good with ensnaring bridge though)

I think the mana is pretty rough to try to fit manlands in there, you would need to cut nonland cards for them.

[crowe_1]

^
If you posted it here I probably used your list as a base. Did you run Hangarback? I used to run Day's Undoing but found the newer lists to be more consistent. Lotus Petals were added instead of Springleaf Drum to increase velocity for the 2 and 3 mana spells, make Opal live more often on turn one, and remove all dissynergy with Chalice. In the same way, I swapped out Disciple of the Vault for Walking Ballista. Ballista isn't quite as good at killing the opponent, but more than makes up for it in board interaction. Daretti 2 was a card I've wanted to use since it was spoiled, and now combined with Ballista we have a decent removal suite in addition to a really fast clock. Deck's probably not going to win an Open but it's completely viable and super fun. The worst thing is that if it ever became popular, Stony Silence/Null Rod usually just beat you.

That RW list posted above mine looks awesome as well. Blood Moon is a card I thought of adding to the board if the lands-based matchups proved difficult.

[mistercakes]

been a while since i've posted on this thread but wanted to try out a new build.

red affinity

4 arcbound ravager
4 ornithopter
4 vault skirge
3 walking ballista
3 etched champion

4 pia's revolution

4 galvanic blast
2 Lightning Bolt

4 cranial plating
4 mox opal
3 springleaf drum
3 urza's bauble
1 lotus petal

4 tomb
4 furnace
4 darksteel citadel
4 inkmoth nexus
1 mountain

completely untested. the idea here is that affinity is already aggressive and has a ton of redundancy. the ability to play w/ galvanic blast and lightning bolt together should make pia's revolution an actual threat with ravager/bauble/petal and just in general being able to protect your guys.

would be interested in hearing thoughts.

the main bonus here is that the deck's mana base is more stable, since you don't have to reach for tezzeret and thoughtcast. i noticed when i lose w/ affinity it's usually due to not having the right colors at the right time.

[p.faul01]

Hi @all affinity players. Have been silently following this thread for a bit. Seems to be not so many posts lately. Wanted to share my list and hear some thoughts from you guys. I really want to try daretti in the list, but I think 3 color is a really big challenge for the deck, since we can't use any fetch lands or filtering. Don't want to trim the artifact lands too much though, since it's just too much of synergy lost (thoughtcast, ravager + all the metalcraft effects).
I also greatly appreaciate any feedback on the sideboard. What are the worst matchups for affinity? How many SB slots can we dedicate to fight those decks?
(on a sidenote: I also would like to know what to specifially board in and out for different matchups. I caught myself thinking really hard, whether to keep blasts in the deck against delver or to board in whipflares instead/additionally to blast)


4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
4 Etched Champion
4 Vault Skirge

4 Thoughtcast
4 Galvanic Blast

3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast

4 Mox Opal
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Cranial Plating

4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
3 Great Furnace
1 Glimmervoid
4 Darksteel Citadel


Sideboard

3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
2 Whipflare
2 Thoughtseize
2 Spell Pierce
2 Pyroblast
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Blood Moon
1 Wear // Tear





...list
completely untested. the idea here is that affinity is already aggressive and has a ton of redundancy. the ability to play w/ galvanic blast and lightning bolt together should make pia's revolution an actual threat with ravager/bauble/petal and just in general being able to protect your guys.
I also like the idea of using galvanic blast. Lighting bolt is a legacy staple forever, so why not use a +1 dmg for the same cost in an aggro deck.



the main bonus here is that the deck's mana base is more stable, since you don't have to reach for tezzeret and thoughtcast. i noticed when i lose w/ affinity it's usually due to not having the right colors at the right time.
Yes I also am having issues with the color. Sometimes it's really frustrating to just lose because of color screw...

[Izor]

Played another local last weekend. Went 3-1 and ended up in the prizes.

Round 1 Win against Burn (2-0): Vault Skirge doing its thing in both games.

Round 2 Win against Miracles/Jeskai Control (2-0): Game 2 MVP was Tezzeret, who singlehandedly won through Humility + Ensnaring Bridge + Elspeth + Gideon in play.

Round 3 Loss against Infect (0-2): Not much I could do in my designated worst matchup. Mediocre draws didn't help.

Round 4 Win against Stoneblade (2-1): I win both post-board games by going under the Supreme Verdict he had in hand (aka killing before he had 4 mana). Unusual for my list to win a fair matchup like that, but I'll take it.

[crowe_1]

^
What’s your list? Nice finish!

[Izor]

Thanks. The same list I posted on the last page with minor changes. I moved the 3rd Tezz to the side and took out the 2nd Ratchet Bomb. Considering cutting the 4th Drum at the moment. It's so bad in multiples, but the first one is always very good. Not sure yet.

[mambosong]

Has anyone in this thread tested out the steel stompy lists that has been topping recently?

[hax0rm4n]

Thanks. The same list I posted on the last page with minor changes. I moved the 3rd Tezz to the side and took out the 2nd Ratchet Bomb. Considering cutting the 4th Drum at the moment. It's so bad in multiples, but the first one is always very good. Not sure yet.

I'm getting back into the game after taking a break for a few years and have some thoughts re: your list. I was also on the Probe + Therapy plan, while trying to go wide instead of big by skipping on Masters of Etherium and most 2-drops outside of Plating/Ravager.
Apologies in advance if some of these seem banal, I'm hella rusty

1. Do you find 2 Tezz + 4 Plating + 3 Ravager is enough business to cash in on artifact count? Or do you tend to just pluck away at them until you topdeck one of those later?
2. Have you found Signal Pest underwhelming? Would play it before MoE when running Therapy. It used to be a staple way back when I played.
3. Debating on Flusterstorm vs. Invasive Surgery in SB.
4. Thinking of a split on Whipflare + Ratchet Bomb + Darkblast as extra insurance against fair decks and Infect. Was thinking about Jitte but now it seems way too slow.

I get that this kind of list actually puts a lot more importance on playing well, but I'd rather do that if it puts me on a more powerful gameplan. Not gonna pussy out just from being afraid of having to actually be good.

EDIT: never mind about the Flusterstorm. I thought about it a bit and figured it out. Therapy + Surgical is the actual plan vs. the relevant combo decks anyway, and Invasive actually just crushes the relevant decks. Flusterstorm is the in-between that does neither well esp if they can hold on to pay the tax, and I don't need whatever slight collateral it gives vs. Storm when I'm already running 4 Therapies in MB.

[Izor]

Hey there.

The Probe + Therapy plan is what in my experience makes this deck viable in Legacy, because this combos is stronger in this deck than anywhere else and because it proactively deals with a lot of what traditional Affinity can't beat. However, I'm not trying to go wide with my list at all. That's also why I'm not playing Signal Pest or Master of Etherium. My win conditions are usually a resolved Tezzeret or a single creature boosted by Plating or Ravager.

To answer your questions:

1. I only run those for two main reasons. First, with 4 Probe plus 4 Thoughtcasts as redraws you usually find them reliably and second, because the other 'business' spells available to Affinity are much worse than the ones I have in Legacy. The Modern decks generally have a go wide gameplan with the 8 Nexus and 4 Signal Pests. In my experience though, this gameplan does not cut it in Legacy. In Modern you can often race combo decks with that gameplan, in Legacy you can't. In Modern you can play Galvanic Blast because it actually does interact with most combo decks there, in Legacy those are mostly dead cards. In turn you get stronger Thoughtcasts and Tezz due to the artifact lands, which is why the move from a go wide gameplan to a more midrangey gameplan supported by Therapies to beat combo makes sense. On top of that, Legacy decks typically run less creature removal spells than Modern decks because unlike in Modern you'll find too many decks that they're dead against. This means that in Modern you usually have to draw something like 2 Overseers, 2 Pests and a Ravager or two to make sure something survives against Jund/Junk or Jeskai Control, while in Legacy I often only need 1-2 per game, especially with the ability to protect them with Therapies.

2. Signal Pest doesn't cut it with the low creature count of my list, plus it wouldn't even cut it in my eyes even with a higher one, due to what I said above. If you show up to a Legacy tournament thinking you could win with Modern strategies you'll usually end up losing. The Modern Affinity lists have no business competing in Legacy. Thankfully I have (in my opinion) found a way to change the deck in a way that still gives me game in legacy. I don't get to play as often as I'd like any more, but I still haven't finished a Legacy tournament with a negative or even equal record with this list.

3. Flusterstorm would certainly be an alternative, but I currently prefer Surgery because it's better against everything but Storm. With just a Ravager in play I can usually guarantee I always have Delirium, and with Delirium active Surgery is a formidable card against almost all of the unfair decks in the format, because it often acts as a hard counter plus Surgical Extraction for just one mana.

4. I don't plan on boarding those against most fair decks in fact. I'm usually not worried about killing random creatures because robots usually dominate creature combat anyway and I would generally try to keep boarding to a minimum in a deck that needs so many artifacts to work properly. Ratchet bomb is mainly there against Chalice decks, because they're quite frequent in my meta. Darkblast is a very nice 1-off for Infect, my worst matchup, and also useful against Elves and DnT. Ratchet will also come in against Elves, because it's more a combo deck than a combat based deck and because it can activate at instant speed, which is huge if they're trying to combo off. Therefore Whipflare doesn't do much for me and I wouldn't board it against anything anyway. Doesn't even kill Revoker out of DnT, which is their most annoying card vs us. As of other fair decks, ranging from Delver variants to Leovold decks, Stoneforge decks or even stuff like Merfolk, removal isn't needed. One Champion dominates the board and one Ravager/Plating/Tezz kills them in 2 turns. Against Merfolk I do board Ratchet anyway because of Chalice though.

[hax0rm4n]

Entered a small 3 round tourney at LGS today. Went 1-2, choked on rust of 5 years since I last touched this game. Cabal Therapy is the TRUTH. Highlights include nabbing two Goblin Guides T1 vs. Burn on a blind name, and stripping 2 StP and 1 PtE vs. DnT to let robots get in there. NUTTED EVERY TIME.

List was also pretty trash. Sorry boys.

//Maindeck
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Arcbound Ravager
2 Blood Scrivener
4 Vault Skirge
2 Etched Champion

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Thoughtcast

2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Cranial Plating

2 Lotus Petal
4 Mox Opal
3 Springleaf Drum
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
2 Glimmervoid
2 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers

//Sideboard
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Etched Champion
1 Darkblast
2 Invasive Surgery
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Thoughtseize
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Blood Moon


Cards that kinda sucked:
Lotus Petal
Tezzeret
Etched Champion

Tezz stayed rotting in hand way too often (should have been fucking obvious, there's hardly any mana sources and most of it gets blown up by Wasteland). Blood Scrivener overperformed, thanks in part to cutting lands to avoid bricking when chaining extra draws off Thoughtcast and Probe. 2 Etched feels right, with Etched/Tezz being the main reasons opening 7s look like unkeepable ass in traditional builds.

I don't like Tezz as much when I'm offing my own guys all the time and can barely scrape up 4 mana to begin with vs. Wasteland/Thalia. The faster decks ignore him anyway. Should probably have at least two copies in the 75 somewhere, but they're going to the sideboard for UW. Sideboard was stolen btw from Izor without rubbing together either of my 2 brain cells, so it's probably super wrong.

Looking at either Ensoul Artifact or Galvanic Blast over Tezzeret atm. Therapy is good at buying a little time to let dinky 1/1s sneak under, but it doesn't lock up a game on its lonesome. Thus, I'm either looking for efficient ways to smash face or more reach. Probe/Therapy lets you know when the coast is clear to make some 5/5 scissors. If I'm going to Ensoul, I'm putting in the 4th Drum again and upping the Citadel count. GBlast prob needs reworking of manabase or cutting blue

Prob something like this:

4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Arcbound Ravager
2 Blood Scrivener
4 Vault Skirge
2 Etched Champion
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Thoughtcast
1 Lotus Petal
4 Mox Opal
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Cranial Plating
2 Ensoul Artifact
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers


idk yet about sideboard

Will probably write up the games if I don't get buttfucked later for putting off IRL stuff to play children's card games.

[crowe_1]

Tezzeret is insane in this deck. If they can’t answer it within one turn they essentially lose. It can also get you through weird fringe stuff like Glacial Chasm. I’d give it a few more tries. Opponent prob shouldn’t be Wasting you too much due to them being behind on board (ideally). But to each their own.

Since you haven’t played in awhile, you may not be aware of Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast or Walking Ballista. Both are practically made for this deck, though Daretti has the same colour problem as you noted with a Tezzeret. If you are looking for a PW fix, there is a new colourless Karn coming in Dominaria that doesn’t seem bad.

Also, Chalice of the Void tends to be good if you can run it. I notice you are playing several one-drops yourself though so take that with a grain.

[hax0rm4n]

Went 2-1 at LGS last Wednesday. Slapped myself a bit for mistakes but w/e. Shaking off that rust.

List:
//Maindeck (60)
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Arcbound Ravager
2 Blood Scrivener
4 Vault Skirge
2 Etched Champion
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Thoughtcast
4 Cranial Plating
2 Ensoul Artifact
4 Mox Opal
1 Lotus Petal
4 Springleaf Drum
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers

//Sideboard (15)
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Darkblast
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Thoughtseize
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pithing Needle
1 Blood Moon
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Invasive Surgery

R1: vs. Junk (2-0)
G1: Early Probe into Therapy snags a Decay and reveals StP and Liliana, latter of which which he can't cast for while due to color screw. Some anemic beats off of Memnites and Vault Skirges. He eventually SFMs and hardcasts Jitte. Luckily Ravager is busted and blanks it for long enough to draw into Etched + Plating and kill him.
SB: +1 Blood Moon, +2 Needle, -1 Memnite, -1 Ornithopter, -1 Ensoul
G2: Mulligan to 6, keeping a weird hand with Needle + Blood Moon. He lands an early Dark Confidant. Punish him up for greedy fetching with T2 Blood Moon. He hits me a few times for 2 but can't play anything. I preemptively Needle on SoFaI to turn on my Opal, assuming it's somewhere in his 75. He draws into Plains + SFM from Bob and grabs a Jitte, but I had the second Needle to neuter it, then play Ravager. He can't kill the Ravager thanks to Blood Moon + Therapy taking StP. Ravager kills a few Lingering Souls toekns. Eventually Skirge + Plating gets in when the tokens are gone.

R2: vs. Burn (0-2)
He says he's playing a Modern deck, little does he know I am as well.
G1: Kept an opening 7 with 2 Probes. Turns out shocking yourself isn't great vs. Burn. I play a turn 1 Scrivener and turn 2 Ensoul on my Citadel to put him on a 3 turn clock. He bolts 2 Vault Skirges and Searing Blazes my Scrivener. We just race from that point. I'm at 9 life the turn before I kill him, and I know his hand is Fireblast + 2 Mountains. He has Rift Bolt suspended, so I'm dead to any live topdeck. Flips a Chain Lightning.
SB: +2 Tezzeret, +1 Etched Champion, -2 Gitaxian Probe, -1 Blood Scrivener
G2: Mulligan to 5 again, keeping a hand with Ravager and not much else. I'm forced to sac Ravager early to fizzle his Searing Blaze. Play a turn 4 Tezzeret, but it's already too late. Get crushed by more Searing Blazes and Smash to Smithereens, then active Grim Lavamancer and Eidolon tie it up.

R3: vs. Czech Pile (2-1)
G1: Kept a loose 7 with 3 Probes. DRS and Strix keep me from swinging. Turns out Memnite is pretty bad vs. 1 mana 1/2s. My shitters die to Bolts, Scrivener gets Forced, and I eventually get locked out and die to Jace ultimate.
SB: (play) +1 Blood Moon, -1 Memnite
G2: Turn 1 Plating + equip to a Memnite, turn 2 Etched. He doesn't have the FoW for either. He fires off a Hymn to discard a Skirge and a land, then dies in next 3 turns. Interactive Magic at it's finest.
SB: (draw) -1 Blood Moon, -1 Cabal Therapy, +1 Memnite, +1 Pithing Needle
G3: A real slobberknocker. T1 Ravager into T2 Plating, he tries to bolt my Plating'd Ornithopter but I sac a land + Ravager to make it a 2/4. I draw another Ravager. He Kolaghan's Commands me twice but double Ravager makes them pretty mediocre. I end up with a 4/4 Memnite and another Plating on board vs. his lone DRS. Probe shows he has a useless Thoughtseize + Hymn, and the big Memnite gets there.

Local meta looks pretty soft to Blood Moon, and a lot of fair decks. Want to try some Spellskites in the SB. There's some real tension between Scrivener and holding reactive cards in hand like Invasive Surgery, so I'd prefer proactive disruption instead, and maybe reactive cards if they're insanely powerful in a MU. Still gonna keep some number of Tezz in the 75 against the UW decks. Debating Revoker vs. Needle. 1 mana + non-creature has been really good though. I don't want my Jitte hoser to die to a Swords or Push. Whipflare also looks really good vs. all these guys trying to play SFM and DRS.

Ensoul has been pretty underwhelming vs. Fatal Push. I'm losing some edges vs. fair decks so back up to 3 Etched in MB. Also deciding to run 3/2 split on Memnites + Frogmites to be able to attack through a DRS when I don't have Plating. -1 Lotus Petal, -1 Springleaf Drum, +1 Blinkmoth Nexus, +1 Tezz, since I'm cutting Ensoul, could be a Spire of Industry instead if finding colored mana gets hard.

Going to try:
//Maindeck (60)
3 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Arcbound Ravager
2 Blood Scrivener
4 Vault Skirge
3 Etched Champion
2 Frogmite
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Thoughtcast
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Mox Opal
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Cranial Plating
3 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers

//Sideboard (15)
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Spellskite
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Darkblast
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Thoughtseize
1 Whipflare
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
2 Blood Moon

I agree in general that Tezzeret is really good in this deck. I found if I was running Tezzeret + Therapy I'd often be in really rough spots to cast + defend him, as I'm not running Ancient Tomb and there's a lot of Wastelands + Ports at this LGS. Also agree Walking Ballista would be insane and gets to kill tons of Thalias + Baleful Strix while insuring vs. flooding, but I'm too poor for it right now. New Karn as a 1-of seems good.

If I go back to Tomb + Tezzeret and cut the Probe + Therapy package I'd definitely go back to 4 Chalice either MD or SB. Signal Pest is pretty whatever anyway so it's not like you give up too much. Could also do 4 Blood Moon + 4 Chalice MD with Tombs in a Steel Stompy-ish build to really suck the fun out of the game.

[crowe_1]

There was a Blood Moon centric list posted a few pages back that seems good. Placed well in a decently sized tournament.

// Land (16)
4 Ancient Den
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Glimmervoid
4 Great Furnace

// Creature (21)
4 Akiri, Line-Slinger
4 Arcbound Ravager
3 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
2 Pia Nalaar
4 Vault Skirge

// Enchantment (4)
4 Blood Moon

// Artifact (19)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cranial Plating
2 Ghirapur Orrery
4 Mox Opal
3 Smuggler's Copter
2 Springleaf Drum

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 2 Etched Champion
SB: 3 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Wear // Tear
SB: 1 Whipflare
SB: 1 Ghirapur AEther Grid
SB: 2 Winter Orb

[hax0rm4n]

LOL yeah I saw that one but I'm not brave enough to run that list. I was considering Smuggler's Copter to have some sweet synergy with Blood Scrivener and turn Memnite on when the ground is gummed up.

Maybe at that point you're better off playing something closer to the stompy list and cutting Platings. Something like:

4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Steel Overseer
2 Vault Skirge
4 Foundry Inspector
2 Lodestone Golem
2 Hangarback Walker
4 Walking Ballista
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Mox Opal
4 Lotus Petal
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Blood Moon
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
2 Inventors' Fair
1 Karakas
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
4 Great Furnace

[_WD40_]

Anyone else think the new Karn from Dominaria makes this deck super busted?

[Izor]

Uh, no. In fact it's a much worse version of Tezzeret. You're trading easier castability for the presence of an actual ultimate that straight up kills opponents through all common creature/combat lock pieces the turn after it comes into play. Not to mention that Tezz' +1 is a bazillion times better than Karn's +1 and -1 in terms of card advantage/selection. Karn's -2 is better than Tezz' -1 most of the time though.

[Scott]

There are so many interesting decks in yesterday's list of 5-0 MTGO decks (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-legacy-constructed-league-2018-07-14). Check out this Mono U Affinity deck:

// Artifacts
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Darksteel Relic
4 Mox Opal

// Creatures
2 Etched Champion
4 Master of Etherium
2 Walking Ballista

// Instants
4 Daze
4 Force of Will

// Legendary Planeswalkers
3 Karn, Scion of Urza
2 Tezzeret, Artifice Master

// Enchantments
4 Ensoul Artifact
2 The Antiquities War

// Sorceries
4 Thoughtcast

// Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod
7 Island

// Sideboard
SB: 2 Damping Sphere
SB: 2 Echoing Truth
SB: 3 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 2 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
SB: 2 Sorcerous Spyglass

[supachai]

Very intrigued with this list. Is it even proper to call it Affinity anymore?

Relic seems meh...maybe another Ballista? Another issue I saw from goldfishing a bit was there's a lot of very non-explosive hands. Not enough good 2 drops, and your 3 mana creatures and Thoughtcasts end up stuck in your hand.


There are so many interesting decks in yesterday's list of 5-0 MTGO decks (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-legacy-constructed-league-2018-07-14). Check out this Mono U Affinity deck:

// Artifacts
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Darksteel Relic
4 Mox Opal

// Creatures
2 Etched Champion
4 Master of Etherium
2 Walking Ballista

// Instants
4 Daze
4 Force of Will

// Legendary Planeswalkers
3 Karn, Scion of Urza
2 Tezzeret, Artifice Master

// Enchantments
4 Ensoul Artifact
2 The Antiquities War

// Sorceries
4 Thoughtcast

// Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod
7 Island

// Sideboard
SB: 2 Damping Sphere
SB: 2 Echoing Truth
SB: 3 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 2 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
SB: 2 Sorcerous Spyglass

[Scott]

Very intrigued with this list. Is it even proper to call it Affinity anymore?

Relic seems meh...maybe another Ballista? Another issue I saw from goldfishing a bit was there's a lot of very non-explosive hands. Not enough good 2 drops, and your 3 mana creatures and Thoughtcasts end up stuck in your hand.

Yeah, it sounds like the deck designer started from the idea of a blue stompy deck. There's a thread about the deck on the Legacy subreddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/comments/8z2krs/no_seriously_can_we_talk_about_this_50_blue/), and if you ctrl-f TheRealRandyLarsen, it's the creator talking about it. He actually agrees with you about replacing Relic with another Ballista.

[contra]

I'm playing a somewhat similar deck where I've smashed tezzerator and affinity together. The goal is to land a T2-T3 planeswalker and either search for lock pieces or go aggro.

Etched Champion is a boss

https://i.imgur.com/I4cP0Nx.png

[mistercakes]

haven't tested any games tonight yet. just been goldfishing. i'm also testing paradoxical outcome with 4 cradles and more memnites.

i still have a strong feeling that the deck is still better with the UB + tezz than with the gearhulk, but will continue to test.

if you're gonna go big you might as well get super greedy. this is the list i will test a bit more.

4 arcbound ravager
4 walking ballista
4 phyrexian revoker
3 verdurous gearhulk
4 disciple of the vault
4 baleful strix

4 mox opal
4 springleaf drum
4 aether vial
4 thoughtcast
2 tezzeret, agent of bolas

4 ancient tomb
4 seat of the synod
4 vault of whispers
3 tree of tales
3 gaea's cradle

sb:
3 ensnaring bridge
3 thorn of amethyst
3 winter orb
2 mandlehorn
2 krosan grip
2 garruk relentless



glad to see somebody finally found a way to make cradle work.

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-league-2020-08-29#forthosewhohaveheart_-


Creature (28)
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Steel Overseer
4 Stonecoil Serpent
4 Walking Ballista
Artifact (16)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cranial Plating
4 Mox Opal
2 Mystic Forge
2 Thorn of Amethyst
Land (16)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Gaea's Cradle
4 Vault of Whispers


<3 affinity.

[kombatkiwi]

- Artifact manland (moth/factory) is good in affinity and good with standstill
- Getting a bunch of cheap creatures onto the board quickly (affinity stuff) is good with standstill
- Ornithopter good for attacking or enabling mox opal etc (affinity stuff), Retrofitter Foundry is good under a standstill and can convert ornithopter into 4/4, Urzas Saga can find it
- Constructs from Urza's Saga are much better when you have a bunch of other artifacts on the battlefield

I don't know if it would look much like a traditional affinity deck or if it would be a major overhaul but I like the synergies there
Maybe very blue heavy for like thoughtcast/force/emry etc

[Fox]

You misclicked the Dreadstill thread. Retrofitter Foundry is a rather feeble and slow card, particularly if you are losing lands + highly susceptible to Wasteland. In terms of affinity, you lose pretty hard to Karn already and this locks you into that play pattern further.

It would still be the wrong deck, but Ninjas would be the better home for this. The problem we will see with see with this card for a bit is the bad deck syndrome, where people identify a thing they can do, but lack the mana progression and the ability to protect this card from Wasteland.

[Mr. Safety]

- Artifact manland (moth/factory) is good in affinity and good with standstill
- Getting a bunch of cheap creatures onto the board quickly (affinity stuff) is good with standstill
- Ornithopter good for attacking or enabling mox opal etc (affinity stuff), Retrofitter Foundry is good under a standstill and can convert ornithopter into 4/4, Urzas Saga can find it
- Constructs from Urza's Saga are much better when you have a bunch of other artifacts on the battlefield

I don't know if it would look much like a traditional affinity deck or if it would be a major overhaul but I like the synergies there
Maybe very blue heavy for like thoughtcast/force/emry etc

I've been trying to brainstorm a more traditional Affinity list lately as well, something explosive like the 'old days', and then have some sort of card advantage engine to recoup. Standstill and Thoughtcast are fine cards but I was looking at Shared Discovery.

[Fox]

I've been trying to brainstorm a more traditional Affinity list lately as well, something explosive like the 'old days', and then have some sort of card advantage engine to recoup. Standstill and Thoughtcast are fine cards but I was looking at Shared Discovery.

No on 1 mana jank draw spells, Affinity is a Chalice cheese deck. Reverse Engineer, Thoughtcast, TFK.

[Mr. Safety]

...a more traditional Affinity list…

I meant, as I stated, like the 'old days' of Frogmite/Myr Enforcer/Ornithopter, not the current iteration of Affinity which most of us understand to be Steel Stompy. Thanks for the Reverse Engineer idea though, that is something I will have to look into; it looks pretty good but challenging with even a UU base cost. What is TFK? Thirst for Knowledge? I think in order to maintain hyper-efficiency the most an engine could cost is 2.

[kombatkiwi]

You misclicked the Dreadstill thread. Retrofitter Foundry is a rather feeble and slow card, particularly if you are losing lands + highly susceptible to Wasteland. In terms of affinity, you lose pretty hard to Karn already and this locks you into that play pattern further.

It would still be the wrong deck, but Ninjas would be the better home for this. The problem we will see with see with this card for a bit is the bad deck syndrome, where people identify a thing they can do, but lack the mana progression and the ability to protect this card from Wasteland.

The specific combo of dreadnought + stifle is just not something that I find particularly compelling in current legacy.
I don't think a creature aggro deck (assuming that's approx how you build it) is necessarily soft to a 4 mana PW.
I suppose Ninjas is also a potentially interesting shell for this idea but I think it might be worthwhile playing a deck with more artifacts and trying to leverage the saga making big constructs.

[Fox]

The specific combo of dreadnought + stifle is just not something that I find particularly compelling in current legacy.

We don't actually care about the phase III text, it just happens to work with what we're doing. For us it's about improving the mana. For everyone else brewing, they're making their mana worse to go all-in on magical christmasland in a Wasteland format.

[Mr. Safety]

- Artifact manland (moth/factory) is good in affinity and good with standstill
- Getting a bunch of cheap creatures onto the board quickly (affinity stuff) is good with standstill
- Ornithopter good for attacking or enabling mox opal etc (affinity stuff), Retrofitter Foundry is good under a standstill and can convert ornithopter into 4/4, Urzas Saga can find it
- Constructs from Urza's Saga are much better when you have a bunch of other artifacts on the battlefield

I don't know if it would look much like a traditional affinity deck or if it would be a major overhaul but I like the synergies there
Maybe very blue heavy for like thoughtcast/force/emry etc

Have you gone anywhere with this? I am intrigued, and I have most of the cards to put something together.

EDIT: I was also thinking that there may be something with Erayo, Soratami Ascendant

[Cire]

Here's a fun Affinity type list with Foundry and some new cards that just placed first in a challenge https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2021-06-06#minest_st_place


Creature (29)
4 Arcbound Ravager
2 Emry, Lurker of the Loch
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Stonecoil Serpent
4 Walking Ballista
4 Esper Sentinel
4 Thought Monitor
2 Sai, Master Thopterist
1 Zabaz, the Glimmerwasp

Artifact (11)
4 Mox Opal
4 Nettlecyst
3 Retrofitter Foundry

Land (20)
4 Ancient Den
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Plains
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Urza's Saga

[H]

Deck looks crazy. Get your Pernicious Deeds and Meltdowns ready.

But like Steel Stompy was for a bit, this might be a good call in an unprepared meta. If only it had a real answer to Terminus (besides hoping they don't see them) but it can still fight through serval as the winner showed Saturday.

[FTW]

The deck is quite resilient to Terminus. Just like Goblins was highly favored over UW Miracles (and the old UWx Landstill), beatdown decks can beat Wraths just by generating threats while keeping a fully stocked hand. Saga + Foundry is very good at doing that. Thought Monitor, Sai, and Esper Sentinel also dig it into gas. Canonist means opponent literally cannot Brainstorm into Terminus on your turn, so they have to set it up more slowly.

I think the bigger weaknesses are direct attacks on the artifact shell:
Meltdown
Null Rod
Energy Flux
Pernicious Deed
Serenity
Karn, the Great Creator
Kataki, War's Wage


Deed and Serenity both kill artifact lands and Urza's Saga, something the newer "nonland permanent" cards can't do.

[H]

Deed and Serenity both kill artifact lands and Urza's Saga, something the newer "nonland permanent" cards can't do.

Yeah, that is exactly why Deed is a top 3 favorite card of mine, it is worded (and works) so oddly, even for the time it was printed. I'd actually love to know who designed it really and why they made so many odd choices.

The issue with Deed is always how expensive it is though. It was good with DRS (counter-intuitively) so I do kind of wonder if Ignoble Hierarch might help it. (Seems unlikely, but still possible.)

Also, I wonder if this shell though, could leverage 1-2 Steel Overseer, since it seems so bonkers with Sentinel.

[Reeplcheep]

I saw some crazy screenshots of UR delver playing pulverize.

[H]

I saw some crazy screenshots of UR delver playing pulverize.

An old Vintage favorite right there, no doubt. I actually don't think you can trade like that with this deck though, generally, unless you totally wipe their mana out with it.

[FTW]

Yeah, that is exactly why Deed is a top 3 favorite card of mine, it is worded (and works) so oddly, even for the time it was printed. I'd actually love to know who designed it really and why they made so many odd choices.

The issue with Deed is always how expensive it is though. It was good with DRS (counter-intuitively) so I do kind of wonder if Ignoble Hierarch might help it. (Seems unlikely, but still possible.)

Also, I wonder if this shell though, could leverage 1-2 Steel Overseer, since it seems so bonkers with Sentinel.

That wording was standard templating back then. Look at Nevinyrral's Disk and Powder Keg. Back in those days card types didn't overlap except for Artifact Creatures. No artifact lands, no enchantment creatures, no enchantment lands, no land creatures (except manlands with an activation cost). So it was normal to name the types they do kill (old cards: Jokulhaups, Serenity, Creeping Mold) instead of the types they can't kill (Modern cards: Ratchet Bomb, Wild Swing, Bramblecrush) because there was no functional difference. Once they started mixing more card types and creating new card types like Planeswalker, there was a functional difference. As of Mirrodin block's artifact lands, they changed the templating to nonland permanent (Engineered Explosives) because those types of sweepers were never meant to kill lands. However they didn't go back and power errata the old ones.

Yeah, I was surprised none of the Esper Sentinel lists were using Steel Overseer. Seems very strong with Sentinel, tokens, Ballista, etc.

[4eak]

Lookin' fun:

Scaling Hulk Smash! - 20
4 Master of Etherium
4 Urza, Chief Artificer
4 Cranial Ram
4 Nettlecyst
4 Cranial Plating

Near Zerocost Evasive Glueable Non-Land Mana Acceleration - 20
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Mox Opal
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Vault Skirge

Land - 20
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Great Furnace
4 Ancient Den
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Glimmervoid

[ESG]

Welcome back, 4eak!

Your baby got some new wheels and a rocket engine.

[4eak]

Thank you. <3.

Also, playtesting with my daughter, and we're convinced:

Stoneforge Mystic > Urza, Chief Artificer

It's a very straightforward deck thus far.