[Deck] Zoo

[Nelis]

Easy:

Don' try to race them. Preserve your life total at all costs. Trade any creature you have for theirs, and fetch basics to dull their PoP. They can't do much about Leyline of Sanctity, and that card helps in storm match ups as well, so if you are really getting shut out by Burn, run Leylines. And play the control role.

Run Kird Ape/Loam Lion, Steppe Lynx is a terrible control card

[Neffy]

Just a comment as an 'aside': I've heard whisperings that Terravore is good in zoo...anyone have some first-hand experience with this? I'm debating putting up to 3 in my list.

Yeah, some lists have showed up with at least a singleton Terravore. Im trying it out today, and only because zoo makes good use of GSZ. Also i am trying 1 CE selkie in SB, against blue decks. the extra draws with exalted is awesome. and is just as easy to zenith as terravore.

Im hoping to bluff some times for x=3, and surprise people with a 10/10 trample terravore or a 'draw alot-a-cards' selkie instead of the usual knight.

[troopatroop]

Yeah, some lists have showed up with at least a singleton Terravore. Im trying it out today, and only because zoo makes good use of GSZ. Also i am trying 1 CE selkie in SB, against blue decks. the extra draws with exalted is awesome. and is just as easy to zenith as terravore.

Im hoping to bluff some times for x=3, and surprise people with a 10/10 trample terravore or a 'draw alot-a-cards' selkie instead of the usual knight.


I don't think it's that good of a play to demand a SB slot for it. What situations does Selkie seem more desirable than Knight and Terravore? Firespout from the Blue decks might make this plan less than perfect. Win-more much?

[Misplayer]

Terravore is indeed good in the Big Zoo lists, for breaking ground stalls and racing Progenitus, against which Zoo is otherwise cold.

Burning-Tree Shaman may warrant some testing as a tutor target out of the board against stuff like Lands or ThopterTop.

[reev_]

I think GSZ opened some doors to zoo. I don't think we cant take less than 3.

In my list (well, im testing very hard these days) run 4, and no one sylvan.

basically, i run 20 lands, 21 creatures, 19 spells. PoP md, and I switched all chain lightning to Helix, cuz its strongest in mirror.

1 mountain
1 forest
1 plains
1 canopy
2 plateau
2 savannah
3 taiga
3 windswept
3 wooded
2 mesa
1 karakas

4 qasali
4 tarmogoyf
4 wild nacatl
3 kird ape
3 grim lavamancer
2 KOTR
1 gaddock teeg

4 helix
4 bolt
3 PoP
4 path
4 GSZ

------------
1 gaddock teeg
3 ReB
2 choke
2 fallout
2 swords to plowshares
2 relic to progenitus
2 krosan grip
1 loaming shaman


.

So i run 3 zenith too, with 4 ape.
And 4 zenith, 4 ape and 2 lavamancer.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Ended up 3-1 with my posted list. Beat Elves, Affinity and Burn. Lost to Natural Horizons.

Anyway, in a fast zoo shell is 2 Knight of the Reliquary with 20 land enough to consistently to fetch out a Karakas versus Show and Tell etc. decks?

[jandax]

I always ran 4 KotR with 20 land (with horizon canopy as well).

[ajfennewald]

Has any body who plays GSZ considered having a non graveyard depended fatty in the deck to tutor up. I def see people side in relic vs me. Not sure if they should be but it does hamper a decently large portion of the deck offence/board control. I guess the only choice really to fill that role is woolly thoctor. Prob not worth doing but was just wondering if anyone else had though about it

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Has any body who plays GSZ considered having a non graveyard depended fatty in the deck to tutor up. I def see people side in relic vs me. Not sure if they should be but it does hamper a decently large portion of the deck offence/board control. I guess the only choice really to fill that role is woolly thoctor. Prob not worth doing but was just wondering if anyone else had though about it

Great Sable Stag?

[jamied1981]

I use a 1 of Thrun as a tutor target and he's been really good

[kabards]

this was the deck i run last March 20 here in the Philippines and i got the champion. here's my list

1st Place -Louie Funelas
"Legions"

4 Wild Nactl
4 Tamagoyf
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Grim Lavamancer
3 Kird Ape
2 Knight if the Reliquary
2 Leonin Arbiter
2 Phyrexian Revoker

4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Lightning Helix

4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Arid Mesa
3 Taiga
3 Plateau
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains

SB

3 Pyroblast
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Ethersworn canonist
1 relic of Progenitus
1 Unezawa's Jitte
1 Ray of Revelation
1 Price of Progress
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Pithing Needle

===========

then this are the deck that also goes to the top8


2nd Place- Redmon Lim
"Rock and Roll"

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
3 Bayou
3 Scrubland
3 Wasteland
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
3 Mox Diamond
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmagoyf
4 Knight of the Relinquary
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Vindicate
2 Gerrard's Verdict
2 Pernicious Deed
4 Swords to Plowshares

SB
1 Boujuka Bog
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Elspeth Knight
2 Duress
2 Extirpate
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Engineered Plague
3 Diabolic Edict

3rd Place - Philip Gisbert
"Junk-Rock"
(Lost the decklist)

4th Place -Marco Deligos
"ANT"

4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 underground sea
2 island
1 Swamp

4 dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Brainstorm
2 Ad Nauseam
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Ill Gotten Gains

4 Lions eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
2 Chrome Mox
4 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
1 Chain of Vapor

SB
3 Chain of Vapor
4 Xantid Swarm
4 Doomsday
1 Shelldock isle
1 Emrakul Aeons of Torn
1 Dream's Grip
1 Tropical Island

5th Place -Martin Sese
"Budget Red"

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
3 Chain Lightning
2 Shard Volley
3 Magma Jet
2 Everlasting Torment
3 Price of Progress
3 Fireblast
3 Hellspark Elemental
3 Keldon Marauder
4 Goblin Guide
3 Volcanic Fallout
1 Arid Mesa
2 Scalding Tarn
16 Mountain

SB
3 Pithing Needle
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 REd Elemental Blast
2 Vexing Shusher
2 Smash to Smitereens
3 Pyrostatic Pillar

6th Place -Reginald Go
"Enchanted Kingdom"

4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress Presence
4 Sterling Grove
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Elephant Grass
2 Exploration
2 Mirri's Guile
2 Solitary Confinement
2 Replenish
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Moat
1 Worship
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Words of War
1 City of Solitude
1 Karmic Justice
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 forest
3 Plains
3 Windswept Heath
3 Serra's Sanctum
1 Savannah
1 Plateau
1 arid Mesa

SB:

4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Aura of Silence
2 City of Solitude
1 Ground seal
1 wheel of sun and moon
1 Humility
1 elephant Grass
1 Lignify
1 Blood Moon
1 Banefire


7th Place -JM Crisostomo
"Budget Blackgets!"

4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampiric Nighthawk
2 Nantuko Shade
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Darkblast
3 Abyssal Persecutor
2 Go for the Throat

2 Diabolic Edict
3 Dark Ritual
1 Sword of Body and Mind
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Cabal Therapy

1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Bojuka Bog
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
3 Wasteland
1 Cabal Pits
8 Swamps

SB:
2 Sadistic Sacrament
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Helm of Obedience
3 Phyrexian Crusader
4 Engineered Plague

8th Place -Luis De Leon
"Tech and Taxes"

2 plains
2 forest
4 savannah
4 windswepth heath
3 karakas
2 horizon canopy
1 dryad arbor
3 wasteland
4 noble hierarch
4 mother of runes
2 qasali pridemage
1 scryb ranger
1 stoneforge mystic
1 gaddock teeg
1 loyal retainers
1 iona, shield of emeria
3 fauna shaman
3 tarmogoyf
3 knight of the reliquary
3 mangara of corondor
4 aether vial
3 green sun's zenith
3 swords to plowshares
1 umezawa's jitte
1 sword of fire and ice

SB
1 swords to plowshares
2 path to exile
1 true believer
2 gaddock teeg
1 llawan chepalid empress
1 phyrexian revoker
1 loaming shaman
1 bujoka bog
4 natural order
1 progenitus

[BantFTW]

I've got a question,

I've never played against artifact, and I've heardit's going really fast so..
waht to do against them, is it a bad or good matchup or?

and what to sideboard in a meta liek this:
zoo, gobblins, merfolk, artifact, some control and combo

Thinking like this:
1 gaddock teeg
3 REB
1 loaming shaman
1 POP
2 choke
2 firespout (is it that fast that we need those or not?)
2 relic of prog

any other options?

edit: Is Leonin Arbiter and Phyrexian Revoker playable, you need to pay to look your fetch lol (not ereally good) and phyrexian seems quite good but idk...

[Vilhis]

Im thinking of starting to play Zoo in Legacy and I have some question.

1) How is Zoo positioned to current meta?

2) Has anyone ever thought about playing Bloodbraid Elf in Big Zoo? (Edit: Just realized that then you cant play Zenith)

3) What is the consensus here, is Big Zoo better than the reqular version of Zoo? What matchup's are better for Big Zoo and what are worse?

[Nidd]

What does the Zoo crowd think about PFire/Grove? Do you think that, given the tutorpower the deck offers thanks to GSZ, the inclusion of PFire + Grove as some sort of inevitability in matchups where you have to assume the control role or where infinite reach comes in handy (preboard against Control, for example), is worth it?
I was wondering whether PFire was any good in this deck because my testing showed me that Horizon Canopy is quite meh - sure, you can tutor for it during lategame, but I mainly used it as a pain land. I literally never could use it to draw a card because I rarely ran out of gas - GSZ is a house.
The inclusion of PFire + Grove would essentially serve the same purpose as Horizon Canopy - provide additional gas for the lategame.

Also, as a beatstick that doesn't rely on the GY, how about Raging Ravine? It soaks up a ton of mana each turn, but it grows and is immune to FSpout, WoG and isn't impressed by Humility.

[trivial_matters]

Im thinking of starting to play Zoo in Legacy and I have some question.

1) How is Zoo positioned to current meta?

2) Has anyone ever thought about playing Bloodbraid Elf in Big Zoo? (Edit: Just realized that then you cant play Zenith)

3) What is the consensus here, is Big Zoo better than the reqular version of Zoo? What matchup's are better for Big Zoo and what are worse?

I'd say Zoo is a viable choice in the current metagame, even though it's not as popular as it used to be.
People have played Bloodbraid Elf. There's even some discussion on that in this thread. I can't comment much because I've never tried the card. For the time being, I'm not going to either, since cascading into Lightning Bolt/ Chain Lightning/ Path to Exile seems bad. And four mana is quite a stretch in traditional Zoo. I'd rather play Elspeth then. On the other hand, Green Sun's Zenith is much better in more midrange builds.
I wouldn't call either version of Zoo strictly superior. It depends on your preferences and style of playing as well as the metagame. I currently prefer Big Zoo. It's more flexible, packs more answers and stronger creatures, although it's fundamentally slower. I've found it to be much better against Counterbalance.


What does the Zoo crowd think about PFire/Grove? Do you think that, given the tutorpower the deck offers thanks to GSZ, the inclusion of PFire + Grove as some sort of inevitability in matchups where you have to assume the control role or where infinite reach comes in handy (preboard against Control, for example), is worth it?
I was wondering whether PFire was any good in this deck because my testing showed me that Horizon Canopy is quite meh - sure, you can tutor for it during lategame, but I mainly used it as a pain land. I literally never could use it to draw a card because I rarely ran out of gas - GSZ is a house.
The inclusion of PFire + Grove would essentially serve the same purpose as Horizon Canopy - provide additional gas for the lategame.

Also, as a beatstick that doesn't rely on the GY, how about Raging Ravine? It soaks up a ton of mana each turn, but it grows and is immune to FSpout, WoG and isn't impressed by Humility.

I'd mostly play Punishing Fire/ Grove of the Burnwillows to reliably beat tribal decks like Goblins or Merfolk. Although versus Merfolk, you're already favoured. Goblins, on the other hand, can sometimes be a pain with Big Zoo. In the end, it comes down to whether you prefer Grim Lavamancer or a two card combo not dependant on the graveyard but more mana intensive.
Raging Ravine might be an interesting idea. It competes with Treetop Village as a playable manland in Zoo. Firespout and Wrath of God aren't so scary for Big Zoo though.

[Anarchy]

Right, first time poster, long time reader.

I have been following this thread for a few months and I've been slowly building my own zoo deck. My first major tournament will be in 2 weeks and i wanted to get some feedback on my current list. i have'nt put any effort into the sideboard yet.

Ps, the meta seems to be vert open. The only trend I have noticed is Bant aggro being popular and also some ANT and CBtop.

The deck,

22 Creatures

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Goblin Guide
1 Terravore
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Grim Lavamancer
1 Gaddock Teeg

17 other spells

1 Sylvan Library
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
4 Chain Lightning
3 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Fireblast

21 Lands

3 Arid Mesa
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
2 Plateau
2 Taiga
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Skarrg, the Rage Pits
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Wasteland

[trivial_matters]

Interesting list there. Seems good to me. Has it bothered you that Goblin Guide and Wasteland conflict a bit? I'd suggest squeezing in some Price of Progress if possible. That card is often overlooked/ underrated.

[Anarchy]

Yeah it has :P

I've been meaning to cut the Guide for something else but can't seem to find a good replacement.

PoP could be good but not sure what to cut for it, something from the "other spells" but I cant realy find anything.

[trivial_matters]

Steppe Lynx could replace Goblin Guide. As for Price of Progress, I'm having trouble finding cards to take out as well. If you have space left in the sideboard, you can play it there.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Yeah it has :P

I've been meaning to cut the Guide for something else but can't seem to find a good replacement.

PoP could be good but not sure what to cut for it, something from the "other spells" but I cant realy find anything.

Try Steppe Lynx over Goblin Guide :)

Personally I stick with Fireblast instead of PoP. My meta has plenty of decks that run mostly basic lands. Unless your meta is littered with decks that have plenty of non-basics I'd just shove them in the board.

edit: sarnath'd

[Anarchy]

Yeah Steppe Lynx is an idea, however the Lynx is a card I hate to draw, I onlw like it when it is in my opening hand. I will give it a try though. If the Lynx dosent work out I'll go with Kird Ape or Loam Lion.

Yeah Price of Progress feels like a sideboard card atm.

[Plague Sliver]

First time poster on the Zoo thread, but I've been enjoying the discussion so far.

I played in my local GPT yesterday in a crowd of 20 players and came in first for the 3 byes that I wanted :) I am a regular TES and Team America enthusiast but decided I was going to go with consistency this time around. We don't get a lot of sanctioned Legacy in the area so I wanted to target the lowest cost decks which would be out in full force - Merfolk, Goblins etc. I expected Welder Servant/Affinity as well so I geared for those in my SB.

The format was 5 rounds, then cut to T8 playoff.

Small Zoo a.k.a. "Cat Power"

My maindeck was as follows:
4x Wild Nacatl
4x Pridemage
4x Goyf
3x Lavamancer
3x Knight
3x Steppe Lynx
2x Loam Lion

2x Sylvan Library
4x Bolt
3x Path
4x Chain Lightning
2x Fireblast

2x Horizon Canopy
1x Savannah
2x Taiga
3x Plateau
4x Windswept Heath
3x Wooded Foothills
3x Arid Mesa
1x Forest
1x Plains
1x Mountain
1x Wasteland (in place of a spell slot ... good for the surprise value.)

Sideboard:

3x Pyroblast
2x Enlightened Tutor
1x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Gaddock Teeg
3x Null Rod
3x Krosan Grip
1x Karakas

Round 1 vs. friend playing Rock - WIN

Game 1 I got a quick start and kept the pressure on. I ended the game at 22 life. I surprised him with Knight fetching Wasteland blowing up his Maze of Ith to punch through the last bits of damage.
Game 2 he got the jump on me and Knight beats won it for him. He gets three Wastelands on me.
Game 3 his life totals showed 16, 11, 6, 1, 0. Again, I had a quick start.

Round 2 vs. Goblins splashing Black for Weirding/Perish - WIN

Game 1 he mulls to 5 and I manage to take it.
Game 2 I do 13 damage to myself with Sylvan Library/Canopy and he price of progresses me to tie the game, when he got way behind in the attrition battle.
Game 3 He overruns me.
Game 4 We start with time called. I had nuts draw with Nacatl, Pridemage and 3 burn spells. Life totals showed 17, 14, 11, 5, 0 so I pulled it through in 5 turns.

He mulled to 5 on every game so it sucked not playing a fair game of Magic with him. He was good natured about it, though.

Round 3 vs. Affinity - LOSS

Game 1 he kills me super fast with Plating. I pathed some guys but they kept coming!
Game 2 I get out Null rod and stabilize at 5 life. He reads Null Rod and does a double take. He does make a go for it but he's unable to play anything because the Rod turns off his Seats/Furnaces/Opals.
Game 3 was very interesting. He Thoughtseizes me and takes Chain Lightning over Null Rod in my hand after I play T1 Nacatl. That proved to be the right play as he equips Cranial Plating on the Ornithopter and once it's equipped the Null Rod doesn't help me. He beats me with a 5 power flying Ornithopter while my landlocked troops couldn't race him.

Round 4 vs. Natural Order Bant - WIN (BY FAR THE TOUGHEST MATCHUP OF THE DAY)

Game 1 I race his Progenitus by being aggressive and bolting through his Goyf wall.
Game 2 I couldn't race his Progenitus fast enough.
Game 3 I curve out perfectly and land Mr. Teeg on the board too. He tries to play defense with War Monk but my Pyroblast cleared the way.

Round 5 vs. Canadian Thresh - INTENTIONAL DRAW

So on to the Top 8 playoff...

Round 1 vs. Canadian Thresh - WIN

Game 1 he's stuck on a one lander. He stifles / counters my stuff but I get there eventually.
Game 2 I do what Zoo is supposed to do. I punch through 3 Goyf walls with Burn/Lavamancer and blow up his Basilisk Collar.

Round 2 vs. Merfolk - WIN

Game 1 was a race. He would have swung for Lethal but I go for the Path on his Reejerey, he counters. I then Fireblast Reejerey and it goes through. I win next turn on double Goyf swing for the win when I'm at 2 life.
Game 2 I blew up all his little fishies and started beating with Knight. The pressure was too much and the only thing I didn't draw were the null rods (I thought he may have Jitte as well as Vial, turns out he didn't run Jitte).

Round 3 - Final vs. sdematt playing BW mid-range/Rockish build - WIN

Game 1 I get the jump on him. I keep Bob off the table, and Path his Revoker after he names Pridemage. On 8 life he reveals abyssal persecutor with Bob, I fireblast him on his draw step.
Game 2 My opening hand was nutty - 2 bolts, 2 nacatls, pridemage etc. He sticks e-Plague naming Cat, and also Wasteland some of my lands. I stick Loam Lion, Lavamancer and they go the distance while he gets mana flooded. Sided in Null Rods as he was playing both Top and Jitte, but I didn't draw any of them and he also didn't draw any of his.

Felt kinda choked for my friend (sdematt on these forums) as Game 2 he was completely flooded and I would have loved for the games to be closer. But I'm stoked because we are both planning to go to the GP and we finished 1-2. Even before we played, I was super happy that one of us on the same team was going to get the byes.

Learnings

- Zoo is great for a player like me who makes a fair number of mistakes. It doesn't punish play errors too severely, and was super consistent as a whole.
- Perish got played on me a total of 6 times in the tournament. I still did OK due to not running out too many green guys and having the Loam Lion/Lynx backup.
- Running on voltron's advice, I replaced PoP with Sylvan Library and loved it.
- The random 1x Wasteland punished players for fetching irresponsibly ;)
- Fireblast was great for the added reach, although I sided it out in a number of matchups where going all-in wasn't going to help.
- GSZ would have been awesome even in Small Zoo, to fetch Teeg and Nacatl when I needed them.
- I feel that Null Rod was pretty awesome. Since I'm not running Jitte, it really doesn't harm me and shuts off so many different cards - Grindstone, Top, Jitte, Vial, etc.

[jandax]

If you choose to run Zoo again, look into Sulfuric Vortex for your board. Especially wiht the fast builds, it's a house.

[sdematt]

Congrats James on the finish! If I had to lose to someone, I'm glad it was you :)

The only matchup I didn't want to play was you, since I wasn't packing the Absolute Law tech in the board ;)

-Matt

[Plague Sliver]

Jandax -- I had considered it as one of my SB choices before the tournament started. With 2 tutors it would be good to run just 1 and run it out vs combo. In the end I decided it was more important to answer Emrakul and affinity, but I may give it a shot.

[lordofthepit]

What does the Zoo crowd think about PFire/Grove? Do you think that, given the tutorpower the deck offers thanks to GSZ, the inclusion of PFire + Grove as some sort of inevitability in matchups where you have to assume the control role or where infinite reach comes in handy (preboard against Control, for example), is worth it?

I love it. I've been on an amazing run with this deck, but I'm not sure whether I've been getting lucky or the combo is just that good.

[jandax]

Jandax -- I had considered it as one of my SB choices before the tournament started. With 2 tutors it would be good to run just 1 and run it out vs combo. In the end I decided it was more important to answer Emrakul and affinity, but I may give it a shot.

Metinks it's evenbetter verses control, as it provides an inevitable clock and you'll likely have gotten some of their life in the mean time. They scramble to answer it while holding your assault off, it puts them in an awkward situation. And its an out to that ass who plays infi-life Clerics and stuff. Zoo just loses to Emrakul, and can also fall quickly to Affinity as well. Just wanted to see other feedback on the card. I really like it, myself

[Vandalize]

Wouldn't be Fight to the Death be a good tech for Emrakul/Progenitus decks? You usually have 1 turn to attack before they ramp you, and they usually block your attacking dude. It looks like a weird tech, tho.

[Serbitar]

Wouldn't be Fight to the Death be a good tech for Emrakul/Progenitus decks? You usually have 1 turn to attack before they ramp you, and they usually block your attacking dude. It looks like a weird tech, tho.

There is also the less narrow/janky Tariff.

[Crazy Eddie]

There is also the less narrow/janky Tariff.

Or Wing Shards, so you don't have to sacrifice a creature yourself, and it's harder to counter if you manage to gather some storm.

[Serbitar]

Wing shards sucks against Emrakul. And 3cc/WW can be tough to keep open.

[Nidd]

Wing shards sucks against Emrakul. And 3cc/WW can be tough to keep open.
How is Wing Shards bad against Emrakul? Care to explain?

[Jonathan Alexander]

Well, it deals with Emrakul, but Annihilator still triggers. I still think that Red Elemental Blasts and Karakas are the best options here.

[JVzer0]

Well, it deals with Emrakul, but Annihilator still triggers. I still think that Red Elemental Blasts and Karakas are the best options here.

I would generally agree with you, but there are merits to trying out other options. First, karakas and REBs aren't very useful against Progenitus (REB's aren't as good because Progenitus is more likely to come out via Natural Order), and second, people using an Emrakul plan are probably aware of and prepared to deal with Karakas and REBs, but probably won't be expecting to be hit with Tariff.

[Crazy Eddie]

Well, there are several problem cards and several solutions, but no definite catch-all sideboard options. Some of the pro's and con's of the cards named so far:

- Karakas: good against Emrakul and Iona. Bad against Progenitus and Terastodon, although that one doen't show up that often. Completely useless against Sneak Attack. Also: attention required when facing Wasteland; so wait until the legendary badass is in the field, and then play and immediately use Karakas before they have a chance to Waste it.
- Tariff: good against basically everything except Marit Lage Tokens, but at the cost of your own fattie (or 2-3 additional mana at the most, but I'll guess that's a price you're happy to pay). Also: most sensitive to Counterspells.
- Wing Shards: good against anything that's coming your way, but Emrakul's Annihilator Trigger wil still resolve. Due to it's storm effect harder to counter, since each copy has to be countered individually. Personally I don't think that double white is difficult to gather with Zoo's mana base, but the amount of three mana is a bit heavy, especially if you want an additional mana to play a Lightning Bolt or something like it in order to gather some storm. Best suited in Big Zoo with Noble Hierarchs.
- Red Elemental Blast / Pyroblast: attacks the alternative for casting the fattie instead of the fattie itself. Good against Show and Tell, but you have to keep one source of R constantly open in order to cast it when they play S&T. Sucks against Natural Order, Eureka, Sneak Attack, and Green Sun's Zenith with a bazillion mana (elves, I'm looking at you). Big plus: it also works against other decks with Blue, like Landstill, Merfolk, Counterbalance, or any other thing with Jace, the Mindsculptor, so it's not as narrow as the other cards listed here.

I guess these are the best options, but ultimately it depends (as usual) on your metagame and your personal preference. At this moment I'm not expecting that many of these decks that I need to use sideboard slots against them, but if there were I would probably go for Tariff (with Small Zoo) or Wing Shards (Big Zoo), since I expect way more NoPro than S&T.

[trivial_matters]

There's also Gaddock Teeg, who stops both Natural Order and Sneak Attack.
So far I've found that a combination of one Karakas main, 2-3 Red Elemental Blasts/Pyroblasts and 2-3 Gaddock Teegs in the sideboard (although you can play Gaddock Teeg main if you're playing Green Sun's Zenith) give Zoo a fair chance of winning against decks packing these cards. Show and Tell included. Additionally, your removal can stall Natural Order in the worst case.

[Crazy Eddie]

You're right about Gaddock Teeg, it can be quite good indeed, and it can be used in other matchups as well.



Additionally, your removal can stall Natural Order in the worst case.

They can always use a green-based fetch, search for Dryad Arbor, and cast Natural Order before passing priority.

[trivial_matters]

They can always use a green-based fetch, search for Dryad Arbor, and cast Natural Order before passing priority.
Mh, that's true. I suppose you can still try to slow them down a bit. But in the long run it won't work.

[mhinsz]

I had good luck with Zoo this past weekend as well..

"Big Legacy" tournament at Monster Den - Minneapolis, MN

I played this:

ZOO

4 - Noble Hierarch
4 - Wild Nacatl
4 - Grim Lavamancer
1 - Figure of Destiny
4 - Tarmogoyf
4 - Qasali Pridemage
3 - Knight of the Reliquary

4 - Lightning Bolt
4 - Path to Exile
3 - Chain Lightning
1 - Sylvan Library
1 - Elspeth, Knight-Errant

4 Wasteland
3 Windswepth Heath
3 Arid Mesa
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Taiga
2 Plateau
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Savannah
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains

SB:

4 Mindbreak Trap
3 Pyroblast
2 Krosan Grip
2 Tariff
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Reliquary of Progenitus
1 Shattering Spree
---------------------------------------------------
I had been a long time NO Bant player, until Reanimator picked up steam, and I went searching for a new deck. A friend of mine had a Zoo list with 4 Wastelands that looked intriguing, and so I tried it. The original list ran Steppe Lynx and more Figure of Destiny - but I cut that for Noble Hierarch and the full 4 Pridemage and Lavamancer.

The meta where I play is usually Merfolk, Goblins, Junk, with a sprinkling of Blue decks. I have noticed that the combo and dredge players in my area aren't usually that good. I don't honestly think that Zoo is very good in a field of Show and Tell and Natural Order - but there didn't seem to be a lot of those players at the tournament. I haven't seen a Counterbalance deck in a long time, and I think that Krosan Grip is really just overkill now. I hedged that bet by using 1 Shattering Spree, which is mostly to mise a T1 Aether Vial, but also to replicate the dream two for one on a Vial/Jitte vs. Merfolk.

Rnd 1: - BR
My opponent is known for playing things outside the box, and his stream of Phyrexian Revokers and Dark Confidants didn't stand up to well to my removal and bigger creatures Game 1. He got me game 2 with a Bob I couldn't deal with and infinite removal. I got game 3 the same as game 1.

1-0

Rnd 2: - Ad Naseum Tendrils
I really can't explain it, but I just can't lose to this deck. He gets Game 1 as I have nothing to stop him besides trying to burn him out as much as possible. Gm 2, He burns a Burning Wish to get Thoughtseize to take my Mindbreak Trap, but has no other action and I kill him quickly. Gm 3 - He assembles a bunch of artifact mana, Orim's Chants me, but doesn't have enough mana to go off.

2-0

Rnd 3: Team America
I playing against a pretty good friend of mine, but I don't really know how this matchup is going to do. I assuming a lot of mana denial both ways, and tell myself to save my Paths for giant Terravores or Tombstalkers.
I get him game 1 as he gets stuck on land for a while.
Gm 2 he gets me with a large amount of black based removal - finishing with Jace (I think).
I'm on the play, so I sideboard to make my deck as fast as possible hoping to win before he can take over with Pernicious Deed or Jace. I keep a quick hand with Nacatl, Hierarch, and Lavamancer, and finish the game quickly. I didn't get Hymn to Tourached the entire match, and I think that could be a very key card vs. me. I was also able to Wasteland away Green sources in times when probably needed them.

3-0

Rnd 4. BW Stoneforge Mystic/ Dead Guy
I know the pilot is pretty talented, and has been playing this deck for a while. Again, I'm not sure how the matchup goes, but am glad I have 4 Pridemages to deal with Swords and Vials - And Tidehollow Scullers.
He gets game with a quick Vial - Wastleland - Tidehollow Sculler sequence, with a couple of Sword to kill my resistance.
Gm 2. I bring in the shattering sprees. I have to Turn 2 kill Mother of Ruins with a Path for negative tempo, but I can't deal with a non-sick Mother of Ruins. I land Sylvan Library and keep the pressure on him for the rest of the game.
Gm 3. I have a bit of a slow hand, but Sylvan Libary. The library keeps me in the game. I imagine the decks are pretty even on power, but the Library put me just that much ahead. I think I only took 1 hit from a creature equipped in the whole match (game 1).

4-0

Rnd 5. Zoo mirror.
His build is a bit faster than mine with Steppe Lynx, and I know he is also playing Price of Progress. My Grim Lavamancer go a long way to decimate his board game 1, and I don't have to show him my Wasteland or KOTR in hand.
Game 2 is pretty much the same, and again I think I'm favored as I can kill any of his creatures (besides Goyf) with Red Burn, and my guys are just bigger.

5-0

Rnd 6 - ID.
5-0-1

T8 - UB Tezzeret Affinity.

I had seen this list from SCG, but wasn't 100% on what it played. I thought he was straight affinity until he landed Tezzeret. The board a was even up to that point - he made his Darksteel Citadel a 5/5, but I had the path for that and a Bolt for Tezzeret and I was able to take it down from there.

Gm 2. He game out of the gates faster and landed an early Etched Champion, but it was only beating for two - as I was too. I was able to pick off trouble artifacts like cranial plating and Master of Etherium with Pridemages and take out small Artifact creatures with Lavamancer. Paths and Wastelands kept his mana short. We were on par and he hit me with a surprise Thoughtseize which took a giant monster out of my hand. I topdecked Shattering Spree and was able to replicate it once. I was then able to race his Etched Champion

The T4 usually always splits prizes. There were 2 other Merfolk decks in T4, and something I can' t recall.

I got a Force of Will and a Taiga for my undefeated day.

I felt pretty good about my performance, but have to admit I dodged a lot of bad matchups, and didn't face anything too tough.

I always feel strange playing 23 land plus 4 Hierarch, but the deck has proven itself to me a lot. There are so many options for the sideboard, and I am strongly considering Serenity for my sideboard. I think you'll see more Affinity decks show up, as well as random Enchantress decks - and I don't think the Split Second Ability of Krosan Grip is needed without Counterbalance being a major player in the format.

I'm happy I didn't have to bring in Tariff any time, but would like to test it more to see if it actually works vs. Show and Tell/ Natural Order.

[BantFTW]

You know why you can't lose against combo players, because I think they just suck in your country lol...
Here in Belgium, Netherlands, I don't want to play against combo with my zoo deck lol^^
They know their deck really good and will win even when they make a mistake, otherwise people don't play those decks I think.

But here's a list I quite like atm:
Normally I alsi play normal zoo wich is more faster, and I started testing a littlebit.
and it doesn't matter in the meta now, aggro is the most thing and much combo and control.
your aggro matchup is the same if you play big or normal zoo, the control is even better.
The combo matchup depends on what you play and if you have GSZ, why people don't play this card in normal zoo either,
it's really good and you can get so many things.

My list:

land:
1 mountain
1 plains/forest (I go with a plains)
1 dryad arbor (this one it is wich I'm not sure about, if you got a GSZ he's so good but otherwise :(
1 savanah
3 plateau
3 taiga
2 wasteland (many people underestemate this card, it's quite good with kotr or just if you draw it to)
3 arid mesa
3 wooded foothills
3 windwept heath

spells & creatures:
4 PTE
4 qasali (so good so you need to play against everything and ofcourse now with affinity he's a bom)
4 wild nacatl
3 kotr
4 lightning bolt
4 goyf
2 noble hierarch (don't play more than 2, this is enough)
3 GSZ (so a good card)
3 lightning helix/ chain lightning (I don't like chain because it's a sorcery but it's your own choice^^, I've replaced it with helix and these are much better)
3 grim lavamancer (why play less than 3, he's a bomb vs aggro and can kill and do duch so...)
2 sylvan library
1 terravore (I didn't know it in the beginning but this one is good to ramp through anyhting, also many people chump it to kill it I have seen, it's a big threath)
1 elspeth/gaddock teeg (depends on your meta, elspeth is good against many things but idk teeg is good and you can fetch it with gsz for combo)
1 stp (one spot free, I don't really like those sorcery speed damage so I took this one ** Probably I will make this an extra land but I don't know if an extra land is needed, sometimes I had to mulligan but yeah with one extra land it's almost the same so idk^^, I feel like something hate against combo should be played here but I don't know what)

Sideboard I went wrong on the tournament:
I've played this:
2 gaddock teeg
2 relic of progenitus
1 loaming shaman
2 price of progress
1 ethersworn canonist
3 REB/pyro
1 jitte
1 ghostly prison
2 kitchen finks

I should have been playing volcanic fallout or samthing liek that (firespout), because I've played against some strange aggro things and those would help me win those games, all comments and questions are welcome, ty :)

[Ziveeman]

I had good luck with Zoo this past weekend as well..

"Big Legacy" tournament at Monster Den - Minneapolis, MN

I played this:

ZOO

4 - Noble Hierarch
4 - Wild Nacatl
4 - Grim Lavamancer
1 - Figure of Destiny
4 - Tarmogoyf
4 - Qasali Pridemage
3 - Knight of the Reliquary

4 - Lightning Bolt
4 - Path to Exile
3 - Chain Lightning
1 - Sylvan Library
1 - Elspeth, Knight-Errant

4 Wasteland
3 Windswepth Heath
3 Arid Mesa
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Taiga
2 Plateau
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Savannah
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains

SB:

4 Mindbreak Trap
3 Pyroblast
2 Krosan Grip
2 Tariff
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Reliquary of Progenitus
1 Shattering Spree

*report snipped*

Good job on the finish. Is there a reason why you don't run Green Sun's Zenith? That card is just too strong in Zoo, and it gives you outs to combo game 1 with a maindeck Teeg.

Teeg stole game 1 from an unsuspecting High Tide player for me at SCG: LA. I managed to get 26th with a 6-2 record with Big Zoo (including a win in a feature match :D). If anyone wants me to post a tourney report I can.

[jandax]

Start with the sideboarding plans for your match ups in LA, or write the report if you wanna up the word count. EIther way I'd be interested

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

I'd like to see a report, too :) And tell everyone why you didn't play Aggro Loam.

[Ziveeman]

I'd like to see a report, too :) And tell everyone why you didn't play Aggro Loam.

Hahaha, Aggro Loam with Koth is still in the testing phase right now :P

I'll keep the tourney report somewhat short since I'll be posting it on my website soon enough (want the more comprehensive one for that :P).

To be honest, I don't remember my sideboard plans exactly, especially pertaining to what I boarded out, so I'll just say what I boarded in. I consider sideboarding and sideboard design my weakest part of my game, and I'm definitely hoping to change that.

Onto the list:

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Grim Lavamancer
1 Mother of Runes
1 Terravore
1 Gaddock Teeg

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sylvan Library
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Arid Mesa
2 Taiga
2 Plateau
2 Wasteland
1 Savannah
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Mountain/Plains/Forest

Sideboard:
2 Krosan Grip
2 Pyroblast
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Path to Exile
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Null Rod
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Karakas

A little explanation:

The sideboard is kind of a mess, but I wanted to cover at least a little bit of everything. The neat thing about Big Zoo is that combo matchups aren't completely horrid (except for Show and Tell) because of the maindeck Teeg. It is still pretty bad, don't get me wrong, but if the combo deck doesn't have an out to Teeg game 1 by the time I kill them...

Round 1: Adam with High Tide

Game 1: I manage to get a Teeg out which stalls him for a little bit, but he Cunning Wishes for Echoing Truth to combo out.

Sideboard: +2 Ethersworn Canonist, +2 Pyroblast, +2 Tormod's Crypt (might as well lessen the impact of Time Spiral)

I wasn't sure if he was running Candelabras, so I left the Grip out. In retrospect he was playing with sorceries, so that should have been a sign that Candelabras were in.

Game 2: I get Canonist out with Pyroblast backup. That gets there.

Game 3: I mulligan to either 5 or 6, don't remember, but I keep a hand with no hate but with Sylvan Library. Unfortunately that's not enough to get me there :( I finally see Candelabras in this game.

0-1

Round 2: Nathan with High Tide

Once again, another combo deck, not a good way to start the day.

Game 1: Since he is from AZ (same state as me), I know what he is playing since with friendly banter he mentions High Tide. I thought he was running Breakfast since he borrowed cards from me, but I guess he audibled. Anyway I run a Knight out turn 2 due to Noble Hierarch which he Forces, then I Green Sun the next turn. He debates whether or not to counter it, but he lets it through after thinking outloud which cards I could get. Fortunately he forgets about the Teeg, and it gets me there as he shows me a hand with High Tide, Time Spiral, Turnabout.

Sideboard: Same as Round 1, but with Null Rod, since I know he bought Candelabras.

Game 2: Ethersworn Canonist with double Pyroblast backup? Gets me there.

1-1

Round 3: Jeff with Zoo

This is a mirror match...literally. My brother Jeff and I are twins (fraternal but still look quite alike) and we decided to play the same 75. Anyway I hated the fact that we drove all the way to LA just to play against each other -.- I don't feel like writing about this one.

Sideboard: +2 Path to Exile, +2 Umezawa's Jitte

2-1

Round 4: Vidianto Wijaya with Team America

Feature match here: http://blip.tv/file/4954311

Game 1 wasn't seen, but I managed to win off Knight of the Reliquary. It was odd that I saw Terravore all 3 games even though I only have one, though in Game 1 it may have been GSZ'd (I don't remember)

Sideboard: +2 Path to Exile, +2 Umezawa's Jitte, +2 Pyroblast

Round 5: Joseph with Junk

He lands Elspeth almost all three games I think. I win game 1 by bringing him down to Bolt range. Game 2 he wins by Vindicating a land while I was land light. Game 3 he takes off of Elspeth's ultimate followed by another Elspeth. I tested this matchup before and it was pretty positive, though it was with only 1 Elspeth so I didn't see it as often as I did in this match.

Sideboard: +2 Path to Exile, +2 Umezawa's Jitte, +2 Tormod's Crypt

3-2

Round 6: Keith with NO Bant

Game 1 - Turn 3 Progenitus seems pretty good.

Game 2 and 3 I keep him off his dudes with Swords and Bolt. Game 3 he keeps a 1 lander with a Hierarch and I remove the Hierarch...ugly but I'll take it.

Sideboard: +2 Path to Exile, +2 Umezawa's Jitte, +2 Pyroblast

4-2

Round 7: Joseph with Dredge

I saw possibly the worst dredges I've ever seen. I saw no Bridge from Belows either game, and only 1 or 2 Ichorids the whole time. Game 1 I manage to win with Elspeth and Wild Nacatls, and game 2 I had Crypt into turn 2 Teeg all with Bolt for his Imp, Swords for his Tribe...brutal.

Sideboard: +2 Path to Exile, +2 Umezawa's Jitte, +2 Pyroblast, +2 Tormod's Crypt, +1 Karakas

5-2

Round 8: Alexander with Wizards (Decklist here (http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/21495_Deck_Tech_Wizards_with_Alexander_Lapping.html))

Wizards were just outmatched by Zoo creatures. He wasn't able to get his engine online and I was able to remove his guys. Elspeth plus Jitte got me there. Azorious Guildemage was trouble, but I removed the 2 he played.


Sideboard: +2 Path to Exile, +2 Umezawa's Jitte, +2 Pyroblast

6-2

Other than the High Tide matchups, everything felt winnable (The Junk match should have been mine, I misplayed a little bit).

Anyway, sideboard tips would definitely be of help. I usually boarded out my Pridemages (all but 1, as a GSZ) target. Also Bolts got boarded out quite a bit, because they're useless vs Junk, combo, and Team America basically. Unfortunately the only time I saw Mother of Runes was in the Feature Match, and it died :(

Feedback is appreciated :) It was my first big Legacy event, and I'm definitely glad I did well.

[Nidd]

I just watched the feature match coverage and during G3 I started raging pretty hard because the guys doing the coverage don't have any clue about what they're talking.

Seriously? RGW deck with KotR, Nacatls, Lavamancers, Goyfs, Bolts and Librarys = New Horizon?

Sweet jesus...

[Ziveeman]

I just watched the feature match coverage and during G3 I started raging pretty hard because the guys doing the coverage don't have any clue about what they're talking.

Seriously? RGW deck with KotR, Nacatls, Lavamancers, Goyfs, Bolts and Librarys = New Horizon?

Sweet jesus...

Hahaha yeah I just saw the coverage. I mean I guess they were confused because Terravore was in both games and the traditional cards like Pridemage and Nacatl were hardly seen...

[mhinsz]

Good job on the finish. Is there a reason why you don't run Green Sun's Zenith? That card is just too strong in Zoo, and it gives you outs to combo game 1 with a maindeck Teeg.

Teeg stole game 1 from an unsuspecting High Tide player for me at SCG: LA. I managed to get 26th with a 6-2 record with Big Zoo (including a win in a feature match :D). If anyone wants me to post a tourney report I can.

I feel like Green Sun's Zenith is a silver bullet card. It feels like it just slows down the deck in a format where things happen fast. I don't really like the idea of maindecking Gaddock Teeg with GSZ just for 1-2 Matchups. Plus it is a nombo if you draw the Teeg. I think the best thing it does is get a T1 Dryad Arbor - and that is best suited in a Natural Order deck. I feel like Zoo needs to be fast and efficient, which GSZ hampers.

If Zoo needed to have silver bullets to beat a larger majority of decks, I could see it's uses, but right now, I feel it is just used to fetch something to beat combo. If you rely on it this way, you are making that option cost 1 more mana/turn. That's not how I want to try to disrupt combo.

There are other good targets like Pridemage - but you said that had limited uses and got boarded out. I could see a case for Loaming Shaman as a target, or something like Xantid Swarm. - but in these cases, isn't Worldly Tutor a better/cheaper option?

[warallthetimne]

idk of you follow any of the SCG opens but to say that teeg is only good vs a couple of matchups is a gross understatement lol have you seen the top sixteen of the last four events? the fields is filled with all sorts of combo decks! a cephalid breakfat deck top fourd for christ sake! combo is zoos worst matchup and personally i want as many silver, gold and platinum bullets as friggim possible.

[mhinsz]

Anyway, sideboard tips would definitely be of help.

It is helpfull to know what you are taking out.

Why are you boarding in Jittes in all these matchups?
vs. Dredge? - You don't usually want to be killing their guys, but instead stopping their combo via graveyard hate.
Team America? - Their guys are all huge
Junk? - again, usually huge guys.
If I play Jitte, I usually only play it vs. Goblins or sometimes Merfolk - and then just to kill theirs.

Bolts aren't really dead cards vs. ANT as getting them on low life before Ad Naseum hits can be key.

As far as sideboarding vs. High Tide - I think you are on the right track with REB, Canonists, Teeg - I would also look at Silence, and Choke.

[mhinsz]

idk of you follow any of the SCG opens but to say that teeg is only good vs a couple of matchups is a gross understatement lol have you seen the top sixteen of the last four events? the fields is filled with all sorts of combo decks! a cephalid breakfat deck top fourd for christ sake! combo is zoos worst matchup and personally i want as many silver, gold and platinum bullets as friggim possible.

My debate wasn't really on playing Teeg or not, but whether to play GSZ to find Teeg. My argument was that we should

a) play more Teegs - or Teeg effects
b) play Worldly Tutor to play Teeg Faster (on Turn 2) instead of Turn 3 (With Green Sun Zenith)

Gaddock Teeg isn't the best card to battle all "Combo" - there are a variety of combo decks being represented, but I wouldn't say Gaddock Teeg is how you want to go about beating them.

Yes, it is what you want for High Tide, and Tendrils - and if you look at the last 4 SCG Legacy Opens, you'll find those decks appear 6 times out of a possible 64 times. If you throw in other matchups were you definitely want Teeg from the SCG top 16s, we can add 1 Cephalid Breakfast deck, and 1 Charbelcher deck. - which gets us to 8 out of 64.

If we add in all the Dredge and Natural Order variant from the last 4 tournaments we get +6 Dredge and +6 Natural Order. Add that to the 8 from before and the result is 20/64 decks.

I would argue that Gaddock Teeg isn't how you want to matchup vs. ANT, Dredge, Breakfast, Natural Order, or even Charbelcher. He certainly helps the cause, but I tend to bring him in with other forms of hate (Mindbreak Trap, Pyroblast, Graveyard Hate) from the sideboard.

[zmattk]

My debate wasn't really on playing Teeg or not, but whether to play GSZ to find Teeg. My argument was that we should

a) play more Teegs - or Teeg effects
b) play Worldly Tutor to play Teeg Faster (on Turn 2) instead of Turn 3 (With Green Sun Zenith)

Gaddock Teeg isn't the best card to battle all "Combo" - there are a variety of combo decks being represented, but I wouldn't say Gaddock Teeg is how you want to go about beating them.

Yes, it is what you want for High Tide, and Tendrils - and if you look at the last 4 SCG Legacy Opens, you'll find those decks appear 6 times out of a possible 64 times. If you throw in other matchups were you definitely want Teeg from the SCG top 16s, we can add 1 Cephalid Breakfast deck, and 1 Charbelcher deck. - which gets us to 8 out of 64.

If we add in all the Dredge and Natural Order variant from the last 4 tournaments we get +6 Dredge and +6 Natural Order. Add that to the 8 from before and the result is 20/64 decks.

I would argue that Gaddock Teeg isn't how you want to matchup vs. ANT, Dredge, Breakfast, Natural Order, or even Charbelcher. He certainly helps the cause, but I tend to bring him in with other forms of hate (Mindbreak Trap, Pyroblast, Graveyard Hate) from the sideboard.

Teeg is actually exactly you want against both AnT and Natural order. Teeg stops Ad Nauseam, Tendrils of Agony, and Ill Gotten Gains from AnT and Natural Order from Natural Order decks. He also stops Charbelcher and Empty the Warrens! Teeg isn't the answer for all combo but he makes most combo matches better for us. And the fact that he is tutorable makes him that much better. My main currently has 1 Teeg, and my sideboard has 1 Teeg, 1 Cannonist, 2 Mindbreak Trap. I don't consider Dredge traditional combo so it must have it's own slot which I have 2 Ravenous Trap and 1 Bojuka Bog.

[BantFTW]

I almost play the same deck as you, look previous page what I posted.
Mother I didn't think off but I think it's also not that good and I want something else.
any comments on my deck would be great.
I think null rod ain't bad against combo decks either and affinity now to, so I think I'll add that one also :)
And I think the same with GSZ, but I have the lukc I almost always have it in my opening hand and than it's a bom^^
But idd it makes the deck slower if you don't have noble turn one or GSZ, but it aihn't bad later game because you can fetch so many things in your deck.
It's also good to get a goyf or something you know...

EDIT: teeg ain't bad mainboard, it's also good vs anything else (bant,everything what's combo and plays bigger things...)
It's better to stall it a littlebit and have a chance than they go off and kill you.
Second game you can bring in other hate with it so really not bad^^

[Ziveeman]

It is helpfull to know what you are taking out.

Why are you boarding in Jittes in all these matchups?
vs. Dredge? - You don't usually want to be killing their guys, but instead stopping their combo via graveyard hate.
Team America? - Their guys are all huge
Junk? - again, usually huge guys.
If I play Jitte, I usually only play it vs. Goblins or sometimes Merfolk - and then just to kill theirs.

Bolts aren't really dead cards vs. ANT as getting them on low life before Ad Naseum hits can be key.

As far as sideboarding vs. High Tide - I think you are on the right track with REB, Canonists, Teeg - I would also look at Silence, and Choke.

To be honest I haven't tested vs Team America all that much (though I managed to beat it in the Legacy challenge as well), but for the other matchups:
Dredge: I was looking for ways to remove Bridges and perhaps Bolt/Lavamancer is enough, but I took out Elspeth for Jittes - same curve, but Jitte kills my own guys if I ever need to.

Vs Junk I boarded it in because it makes sure my Knights and Goyfs are bigger than theirs.

I used to run an Enlightened Tutor package like Kemper Pogue's, but I decided against it at the last minute. Sometimes waiting a whole turn and/or missing a draw step is huge. I would suspect the same with a Worldly Tutor package. Maybe adding more Horizon Canopy so you can draw it the same turn? Seems like a lot of mana though.

As for boarding out, the main cards I boarded out were
Qasali Pridemage
Gaddock Teeg (for non-combo matchups)
Lightning Bolt (not all though, usually replaced by Path to Exile for bigger creatures)
Elspeth

Sylvan Library was the MVP all day. I would like to fit a 3rd one in but I don't know what I should take out.

I definitely see where you're coming from mhinsz regarding Teeg. I think he can be mainly game 1 material, as a means to at least interact with your opponent game 1 where there is usually none. Obviously if your only hate both in maindeck and in sideboard is Teeg you'll lose to combo - when your opponent starts bringing in hate in game 2, your Teeg won't survive.

[warallthetimne]

team america has a tough time vs aggro unless they main mass removal. teeg is a bomb vs combo game one but i never said he should be ur only answer. i love the singleton teeg with green sun main with extra teeg, layline of sanctity and magus od the moon in the side. teeg is great vs high tide and tendrils. post board with teeg amd layline ur nigh unbeatable by combo, with magus coming in against ad neuseum combo and all their fetches and duals

[kabards]

I've got a question,

I've never played against artifact, and I've heardit's going really fast so..
waht to do against them, is it a bad or good matchup or?

and what to sideboard in a meta liek this:
zoo, gobblins, merfolk, artifact, some control and combo

Thinking like this:
1 gaddock teeg
3 REB
1 loaming shaman
1 POP
2 choke
2 firespout (is it that fast that we need those or not?)
2 relic of prog

any other options?

edit: Is Leonin Arbiter and Phyrexian Revoker playable, you need to pay to look your fetch lol (not ereally good) and phyrexian seems quite good but idk...

for me you dont need to play leonin arbiter if you have an awful board position.. try to examine first or think twice if leonin arbiter would be a big mess to him.. it's not intended to slow you down it's intention is to slower your opponent. :wink:

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

I've been wondering this lately, but does anyone know why Alix Hatfield ran 4 Horizon Canopy in his list from Grand Prix Columbus?

The only things I can assume is to get better draws off Sylvan Library, which he ran as 3-of or have more lands to go turn 1 Steppe Lynx into turn 2 fetch.

[Nidd]

Piloted Zenith Zoo today, going 4-2.

Won against 2 TES, UB Faeries and Canadian Thresh. Lost against Team America and Dredge.

Maybe I'm going to write some kind of report, have to see what I can remember...

[zmattk]

Hey guys, I have a question. I've been playing Big Zoo for a little while now. I've been seeing a lot of people recently playing less burn than normal. I currently have 12 removal spells/burn (4 bolt, 4 PtE, 2 helix, 2 chain lightning). Is there a reason people have been playing only Lightning Bolt and StP/PtE?

Also I noticed that I rarely ever wanted to board in Jitte. I felt that I wanted to board it in against aggro for the most part, but I have so much aggro hate in the form of removal, lavamancers and bigger creatures and there's very few cards I can take out to fit in Jitte.

I'm currently running 2 Lavamancers over 2 Jittes in the sideboard with 2 Lavamancers main. Does anyone else feel this way or am I just crazy?

I can post my list if that helps at all.


I also played in a GPT today and got killed by NO Bant. Does anyone have any ideas on how to beat Progenitus or Natural Order?

[wilson]

I'd say more Reach (Burn) to finish em off quicker.. but not an expert here. Also, kill Hierarchs but dont use Path to Exile, board it out.. maybe for Price of Progress?! Or red Blasts

[Nelis]

I also played in a GPT today and got killed by NO Bant. Does anyone have any ideas on how to beat Progenitus or Natural Order?

Tariff or Gaddock Teeg

[BantFTW]

Ithink if you play or don't play GSZ, gaddock teeg is quite good against much decks. You don't play things that cost more than 4 mana and you stop alot of spells, you can't defend it but still...

[jandax]

Tariff or Gaddock Teeg

Gaddock Teeg does more for a deck like Zoo than Tariff ever will.

At least Teeg has some legs and beats. He also shuts off many many spells that would otherwise wreck Zoo's game plan. No need to list them all, the dead horse has been beaten enough. Tariff is so narrow that it's better to just be willing to lose to a Progenitus than dilute a sideboard with a few cards that hose one specific card. Thus, it is more advantageous to attack a certain strategy than a certain card.

Thanks for bringing up Tariff, Nelis. I haven't thought of that card in a long time

[Nelis]

Gaddock Teeg does more for a deck like Zoo than Tariff ever will.

At least Teeg has some legs and beats. He also shuts off many many spells that would otherwise wreck Zoo's game plan. No need to list them all, the dead horse has been beaten enough. Tariff is so narrow that it's better to just be willing to lose to a Progenitus than dilute a sideboard with a few cards that hose one specific card. Thus, it is more advantageous to attack a certain strategy than a certain card.

Thanks for bringing up Tariff, Nelis. I haven't thought of that card in a long time

Oh, I agree but Tariff is frequently mentioned in the Rock topic so I thought it a good thing to mention it here as well.

[jandax]

Oh, I agree but Tariff is frequently mentioned in the Rock topic so I thought it a good thing to mention it here as well.

The Rock is doing something differently from even a Big Zoo deck. It's more of a disruptive-midrange deck, it's more controling. Zoo in any fashion wants to beat down in short order, the difference between black and red, really. Given the different strategy, it's an option for Rock cuz they're looking to out the opponent in the first place. Call me naive but I don't think Zoo's winning against a quick Progenitus.

[Serbitar]

I also played in a GPT today and got killed by NO Bant. Does anyone have any ideas on how to beat Progenitus or Natural Order?

Or just play quick Zoo... You'll have a much easier time simply racing Progenitus. I believe Zoo does not want to be an answer deck. Fireblast and Price of Progress seem to be better sideboard cards than something like Tariff and sometimes even than Teeg. But you have to play aggro/quick Zoo for this to work, not those midrangy versions.

Not meaning to sound rude, but maybe its proponents could explain to me what are the advantages of playing Big Zoo over something like Bant?

[trivial_matters]

Not meaning to sound rude, but maybe its proponents could explain to me what are the advantages of playing Big Zoo over something like Bant?

Obviously because red > blue.

[troopatroop]

Or just play quick Zoo... You'll have a much easier time simply racing Progenitus. I believe Zoo does not want to be an answer deck. Fireblast and Price of Progress seem to be better sideboard cards than something like Tariff and sometimes even than Teeg. But you have to play aggro/quick Zoo for this to work, not those midrangy versions.

Not meaning to sound rude, but maybe its proponents could explain to me what are the advantages of playing Big Zoo over something like Bant?

Big Zoo has better Merfolk, Goblins, and Counterbalance matchups. Blue gives you more game against Combo.

[jandax]

Bant isn't counter dense, but has outs like FoW against bad match ups. It's a bad control deck as well as a bad beatdown deck, but it can do things like NO>Progenitus and protect it which is a pretty sweet play

[zmattk]

Or just play quick Zoo... You'll have a much easier time simply racing Progenitus. I believe Zoo does not want to be an answer deck. Fireblast and Price of Progress seem to be better sideboard cards than something like Tariff and sometimes even than Teeg. But you have to play aggro/quick Zoo for this to work, not those midrangy versions.

Not meaning to sound rude, but maybe its proponents could explain to me what are the advantages of playing Big Zoo over something like Bant?

I really do like Bant, but I do not have the duals, fetches, FoW currently. I could borrow all of them from my friend, but I'd rather have my own cards. I do however have all of Zoo, thus that is why I play Zoo over Bant. I was just looking to see if there is an answer for things like Progenitus because I noticed I had a terrible matchup against anything with either him or Emrakul.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

I really do like Bant, but I do not have the duals, fetches, FoW currently. I could borrow all of them from my friend, but I'd rather have my own cards. I do however have all of Zoo, thus that is why I play Zoo over Bant. I was just looking to see if there is an answer for things like Progenitus because I noticed I had a terrible matchup against anything with either him or Emrakul.

It might make your mana base look a little uglier, but Karakas is a pretty popular answer to Emrakul, especially in decks that already run Knight of the Reliquary. Not to play Captain Obvious or anything...

[troopatroop]

Show and Tell or Natural Order are the reason I play Zoo with Blue, as these matchups go from bad to good. Traditional Zoo isn't well equipped to fight these "slower" 1 card combo decks outside of racing. Spell Pierce, Force of Will, and Daze + a clock is the strategy you want to be wielding against the decks winning with spells. Bant does this as well, but I find its clock to be slower against Storm.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

I'm interested how the hell you've found enough good blue cards to run in this deck to support Force of Will. Like, what does your creature base look like? How much burn do you use? I'm intrigued, if maybe a little skeptical...

[zmattk]

It might make your mana base look a little uglier, but Karakas is a pretty popular answer to Emrakul, especially in decks that already run Knight of the Reliquary. Not to play Captain Obvious or anything...

I do run Karakas. It can answer Emrakul but not Progenitus. It also requires me to have it before I see Emrakul so against Show and Tell decks, if I don't have it in my opening 7, I'm kind of screwed.

[e=mc^2]

I do run Karakas. It can answer Emrakul but not Progenitus. It also requires me to have it before I see Emrakul so against Show and Tell decks, if I don't have it in my opening 7, I'm kind of screwed.

Ir you can Show in Knight when they put in Emrakul. You can find and use Karakas on your turn.

[ajfennewald]

yeah 4 kotrs and 1 karakas blanks the emrakal strategy pretty well. blanking half of show and tells win conditions certainly helps that matchup a ton. Obv you are not racign a turn 2 progenitus but you have some hope against a turn 3 one if you got a fast start. You can side in gaddock teeg vs NO or sneak attack too if you want. anything past that seems like a a waste of sidebaord space unless you play in a well definded meta where you see a ton of progenitus

[e=mc^2]

yeah 4 kotrs and 1 karakas blanks the emrakal strategy pretty well. blanking half of show and tells win conditions certainly helps that matchup a ton. Obv you are not racign a turn 2 progenitus but you have some hope against a turn 3 one if you got a fast start. You can side in gaddock teeg vs NO or sneak attack too if you want. anything past that seems like a a waste of sidebaord space unless you play in a well definded meta where you see a ton of progenitus

In fast zoo I have countered Show and Tell with REB for the win before.

[kabards]

Tariff or Gaddock Teeg

i think you can use tariff but also you can win via race.

[mhinsz]

I use both. Gaddock Teeg is so good in other matchups that he deserves a slot anyway. Tariff is there just the for the Show and Tell/Natural Order lists.

[oneiros76]

Best ways to deal with Progenitus~
- race him, bring in REb's along with whatever Paths you have to help kill Rhox War Monks and guys that show up. also using protection from green is becoming more of an option, whether it comes from a Sword or just using Mirran Crusader to run past basically every creature they have.
-Gaddock Teeg is super good right now, in addition to the usual things he blanks (planeswalkers chalice engineered explosives force timespiral etc etc) natural order and green sun's zenith are both shut down by him as well.
-casting your own natural order. this seems more do-able in big zoo lists out of the sideboard.

most other answers i've seen have been to awkward/narrow.

[kabards]

i will be playing this sunday here in phils.. still thinking if i would choose gaddock over leonin arbiter again because in 4 big event here in our country i got 3 top8 and 1 champion using arbiter.. still gonna think again what would be our meta here.. ill report what will happen this coming sunday

[GoboLord]

Hey guys,

I'm kinda new to playing Zoo to begin with. I know the deck mostly from playing against it with Goblins. Therefore I know several variants like Catsligh, Big Zoo, Naya Zoo etc. The point is that I always found that those decks (even Big Zoo) have a bad lategame. Now with Green Sun's Zenith things change and I want to give it a try.
There have been attempts to make the late game better with either Sylvan Library or Stoneforge Mystic + Eqipments. I myself saw Bloodbraid Elf[/card] in one list and I liked it. That's why I tried to combine those 5 elements to gain CA with. Here's my list:

//Lands [20]
2 [cards]Taiga
2 Savannah
2 Plateau
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryard Arbor

//Card-Advantage / -Quality [13]
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Stonefroge Mystic
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Sylvan Library

//Creatures [17]
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatly
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Knight of the Reliquary

//Removal [8]
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Helix


//Sideboard [15]
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Mindbreak Trap
3 Ethersworn Cannonist
1 Vexing SHusher
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Fire and Ice


Explanation:
Well, I guess I dont have to explain the obvious cardchoices, but that's what I thought about the synergies and the gameplan:

* Lightning Helix > Lightning Bolt, to be able to use Sylvan Library more effectively
* Sword of Light and Shadow > other Swords, to use Sylvan Library more effectively and because I thinks B and W are the most common colors for removal right now (Path to Exile, Swords to Plowshares, Go for the Throat, Ghastly Demise)
* 3 Bloodbraid Elves: 4 mana is a very high costs. I tested 4 copies, but that was too much for me
* only 2 Knight of the Reliquary: Most often I don't find him good enough. He usually enters the battlefield as a 3/3 or 4/4 creature. Still he's a decent creature for lategame, that's why I reduced the number to 2 (and because of GSZ of course)
* The deck is mostly G/W, red splash only for Lightning Helix and Blood braid Elf
* All fetchlands are able to fetch Dryard Arbor.

I'm not sure about the SB. That's why I need feedback not only on the MD.

Thanks.

[Angelfire]

Bloodbraid Elf isn't great to begin with and is even worse when running GSZ and Noble Hierarch. Eternal Witness as a one of does this role more effectively.

Also, you cut Lightning Bolt! What are you fucking nuts? Lightning Bolt will never be cut from Zoo.

Sword of Light and Shadow is most definitely not > the other swords. Fire and Ice is still king and War and Peace will soon make SoLS the 4th best sword. If you want life gain use Jitte.

[trivial_matters]

Bloodbraid Elf and Green Sun's Zenith conflict. It's a shame you don't like Knight of the Reliquary. I think it's brilliant in Big Zoo. It might enter play small, but it can quickly grow larger than Tarmogoyf.
If you're looking for some late game stuff, you might want to try Elspeth, Knight Errant. A Karakas somewhere wouldn't hurt.

These are just some suggestions. The best thing, as always, is to test the deck and see what you like and dislike and go from there.

[jandax]

If you want to learn anything about Zoo, pay attention to what has been posted in response to your deck list.

From my own experience, GSZ is the new late game for Zoo. It's a relaod button that most decks aren't able to skirt. I'm glad they printed it, I haven't looked back (cat sligh is a different story)

[reev_]

well guys, I played a 42 man regional qualifies tornment yesterday and I make a top8. I lost to an ANT in top8.

my list was:

4 windswept heath
3 wooded foothills
2 arid mesa
3 taiga
2 savannah
2 plateau
1 horizon canoppy
1 forest
1 mountain
1 plains

4 tarmogoyf
4 wild nacatl
4 qasali pridemage
3 grim lavamancer
3 kird ape
2 knight of the reliquary
1 gaddock teeg
1 terravore

4 lightning bolt
4 lightning helix
4 path to exile
3 price of progress
3 green sun zenith

sb:
1 stp
2 tariff
2 volcanic fallout
1 loaming shaman
4 REB
2 choke
2 krosan grip
1 gaddock teeg



my matches:

#1: zoo vs. ugr faries (i never seem this deck before. but he play goyf, bolt, counters and cantrips as well)

nothing to explain in this match. i beat fast and control the board with burns. the fallout close game with one spellstutter would counter my koth.

2-0

#2: zoo vs. merfolk

well... "wtf lucky i am" was i think this time. same thing happens here.

2-0

#3: zoo vs. new affinity
well... i mull to take a gsz or qasali or something would burn his creatures. this game was like that: "land, mox, ornithopter, whatever, whatever, whatever, go." -omg.
but one bolt, helix and qasali put me on game, and my pop take 10 of him. i love u pop.

game 2 he play that protection creature, then ravage and i lost. simple like that.

game 3 i oppened a god hand, with path, qasali, nacatl, goyf, bolt and lands. and draw a gsz after. well, he comes slow and i just take his creatures with my goyf, and finish with pop and bolt. simple strange match.

2-1


#4 : zoo vs. ant

well... "this game i can lost". after open 3-0 I really dont care lost here.
game 1 he beat me on turn 2. (after he win on dice)

game 2 i put on 4 REB and gaddock. but a duress on GSZ break me. I try gains a time walk with reb on a brainstorm, but he beat me on turn 3. fuck ant.

#5: zoo vs. zoo
I seem the deck of my opponent before, and he dont run pop md. Thats make all difference this game.
i control my lands, and finish him with 2 pops. gsz was great here, there take me on the board position all time.

game2 he comes fast: "turn1 - nacatl, turn 2: nacatl, ape: turn 3 koth" i try make less pressure with bolt on 1st nacatl, helix on second and path on koth. i back with goyf, but thats him time to control. :/ . path and goyf. i lost 3 turns after.

game3 i keep a questionable hand: only one windswept and 4 1drop cards. i keep and try rush him with cacatl and ape. I think was bad choise keep with this hand, cuz i think lost drop land in mirror is death. but I draw a second land in turn 3, and a 3º land on turn 4. could be better, but it could be worse. so I win cuz he dont burn my creatures more than 1 time.

#6 zoo vs. zoo (again)

my opponent just grant me, cuz he just dont care with regionals finals, and was there to take some boosters. well, dont my fault.

ok. 5-1 and go to top 8.

first game: zoo vs.............. ANT again, that same guy beated me.

nothing different happens here.

well guys. this champ had a lot of combos: cephalid, dredge, reanimate, belcher, xxXXxXXX show n tell, and 2 ant. and i think: is a great time to play zoo, these days?

[justMAD]

Last Saturday i went 4-1-1 with a "Thundercat"-List in a 58 player event.
A friend of mine played the same maindecklist, but another sideboard and also finished 4-1-1.
Place 5+6 were the outcome, with both of us winning a revised Taiga.

2 Taiga
3 Plateau
1 Savannah
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
4 Windswept Heath
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
//21 Land

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Qasali Pridemage
2 Knight of the Reliquary
//21 Creature

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Fireblast
2 Price of Progress
4 Path to Exile
2 Sylvan Library
//18 Spell
# 60

Sideboard:
2 Krosan Grip
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Null Rod
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Umezawas Jitte
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog

Pretty Standard.

#1 (old) Affinity
Dice: me
Game1: I open with Steppe Lynx, follow by Nacatl and some Path/Burn for his smaller guy and manage to win the game.
Board: some random out, +2 Grip, +2 Null Rod
Game2: Opening hand has Nacatl, Taiga, Fetch, Null Rod, Path to Exile, Tarmogoyf. KEEP. He has no answer for Null Rod and saccs some stuff into his Ravanger going to exile the next turn.

2-0
1-0-0

#2 Pro-bant
Dice: him
Game1: Kittens do their work as the push through a single Noble Hierarch and a small Tarmogoyf unable to compete with 4/5 Steppe Lynx'
Board: -1 Fireblast -2 Chain Lightning -1Qasali Pridemage +2 Red Elemental Blast +2 Gaddock Teeg
Game2: Better not talk about this. ;) Got it all under my claws. Attacking him with a huge Knight and Tarmogoyf, leaving back a lonely nacatl to block his Goyf and swing for lethal the next turn. Suprised that he is not blocking one of my threats with his dryad arbor I decide to cast Price of Progess. Well, better recount your own non-basics and wait one turn for an knight activation or just swing for lethal.... We both die to POP. Head --> Wall
Game3: Still not in a good mood about the missplay I forget to write down what happend. Presumably Kittenrush, as his Life says: 15, 14(Fetch), 9, 3, 0.

2-0-1
2-0-0

#3 Next Level Treshhold (Winning the Tournament with 6-0)
Dice: me
Game1: Stifle and Waste just leaves my Kittens little toys for his 4 maindeck Grim Lavamancer, also 3 Vendilion Clique like to have a word with my hand and my lifecount.
Game2: Same here, managed to Red Blast some of his Stifles, but the mancers just burn my cats.
0-2

2-1-0

#4 TES (:really:)
Dice: him
Game1: I know what he was playing and kept 2 Steppe Lynx, 3 Fetchlands, Fireblast, Chain Lightning. He Cantrips his first and second turn, but got me on his third turn. :(
Board: -4 Path to Exile -2 Knight of the Reliquary +2 Null Rod +2 Gaddock Teeg +2Ethersworn Canonist
Game2: Mulligan to 6 and landing a Canonist turn 2 is win. :)
Game3: He keeps a slow hand and I land Null Rod on the second turn followed by a (topdecked) Gaddock Teeg the next turn. He has no answers and I win. :)

2-1
3-1-0

#5 Lands
Dice: me
Game1: He controls the board and my cats just get lost in 2 Maze of Ith, but he didn't see Price of Progress Maindeck coming, taking 14 damage.
Board: -4 Path to Exile -1 Steppe Lynx +2Krosan Grip +2 Null Rod +1 Bojuka Bog
Game2: He has Zuran Orb in his starting 6 (after Mulligang) and transmutes Tolaria West into Tabernacle. He makes a little mistake in not using his Orb after 2 Wild Nacatl and some Lavamancer activations get him down to 8.End of turn I activate Lavamcer, in my upkeep I did not pay the cost for the Tabernacle, Griped his Orb, Activate Lavamancer and Fireblast him out of the game.
Never thought I would win this one, as the Player is well known for his good performance with Lands.

2-0
4-1-0

#6
We decide to draw, as we play in the basement of the shop and there was neither air-conditioning nor windows. With that draw we both were in the tops and got a dual. ;)

4-1-1

It was the third time I took this list to a tournamet and I am still very satisfied with the performance of this deck.
Maindeck Price of Progress was awesome (forget about the misplay vs. Bant^^)
MWP of the day was Null Rod. Seriously, play that damn card.
What I'm still considering is to cut the Red Elemental Blast for Choke, as they were underwhelming, they just traded 1:1, where Choke can win games on it's own.
Things I also like to think about:
- 1 Wasteland in the Sideboard against Lands (Tabernacle, Maze, Glacial Chasm...)
- Combust in the Sideboard against small Knight of the Reliquary, Rhox War Monk, Kira and other blue/white creatures that are very annoying
- Improving my english as i found it hard to write this text in english^^

[JVzer0]

- Improving my english as i found it hard to write this text in english^^

Is english not your first language? I certainly couldn't tell.

Congrats on the performance, I may have to get myself some Null Rods

[trivial_matters]

Congratulations to both of you.
Some comments: In the first list, I'd say 4 Blasts and 2 Chokes are overkill. Regarding the second list, I like the mainboard a lot. What are the Jittes in the sideboard for though? You could cut a fetch for a Wasteland. 11 fetches should still be enough to use Steppe Lynx effectively.

[justMAD]

Our local Meta contains a lot of random aggro-builds with Jitte and I simply don't like to trade random dudes with Path or burn. ;)
I know it is overkill most of the time.
Next tournament I will test Wasteland Maindeck, thanks for the advice.
As a little additon, here is the sideboard my friend played:

3 combust
3 choke
1 umezawa's jitte
3 krosan grip
2 gaddock teeg
1 bojuka bog
1 wasteland
1 karakas

[ZeinVoncy]

Not exactly new to Zoo, but I've had a few rounds against them. I built the deck for my friend and she loves it, and I've always asked myself what the scoop is. This is the deck I've built, I don't really do tournaments, I just have decks for a friends to play with. I go to tournaments on rare occasion and I was about trying Zoo.

Zoo:
Creatures: 22
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Wild Nacatl
4x Mother of Runes
3x Qasali Pridemage
2x Gaddock Teeg
4x Bloodbraid Elf
1x Grim Lavamancer

Artifacts: 5
2x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Behemoth Sledge

Sorcery: 2
2x Chain Lightning

Instant: 12
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Lightning Helix
2x Fireblast

Lands: 19
3x Mountain
3x Forest
2x Plains
2x Raging Ravine
2x Taiga
2x Plateau
4x Wooded Foothills

S/B:
4x Price of Progress
2x Blood Moon
2x Pyrostatic Pillar
1x Balefire Leige
3x Choke
2x Oblivion Ring
1x Qasali Pridemage


Discussion Cards:

Stoneforge Mystic - I am unsure if I should be picking these up and using for my Equipment. Especially with more future So's coming out. If not mystic, then why not Enlightened Tutor. I'm not sure if Zoo based decks run it, I do not see it fitting.

Grim Lavamancer - I'm trying to acquire at least 1-2 more of these. I'd be looking to cut 1x Mother of Runes and 1x Bloodbraid Elf.

Bloodbraid Elf - Again, not sure if Zoo would typically run this, but I am generally glad to be casting it. Digs to my equipment quicker and most times, most, it gives me something I can. It clashes with Swords on rare occasion, but I have always favored them. Mayhap 4x is a bit much, is a reason to looking to replace 1 with Grim Lavamancer.

Null Rod - Was looking to add 2x to my S/B or it I'd need more.

Phyrexian Revoker vs Pithing Needle - Would it be useful? Could name Vial, Stoneforge, Lands, etc.

Baneslayer Angel - I'm aware that Big Zoo runs this, and I think it's nice, but the Equipment just end up doing a lot more.

I have followed the thread a bit. Just taking a better step into the thread I guess you can say.

[jandax]

There's three standard camps when it comes to Zoo:

1-Sligh - It runs Steppe Lynx, lots of burn, and even Goblin guide for some people. It's pretty quick, as consistent as Zoo gets, and is good for a control/spell oriented meta game

2- Traditional Zoo - There's some number of Kird Ape/Loam Lion. It eschews speed for more consistency. Maybe there's a SFM package for an inevitable long game. Good for a soft meta game, one with ~50% match ups across the board.

3- Big Zoo - Noble Hierarch and Wastelands set this version out. It's also ludacris to not run Green Sun's Zenith. Swords over Path, and less burn because Big Zoo isn't trying to get the opponent low then burn them out like Sligh/Traditional Zoo. Good for creature oriented meta games. Lots of goblins/merfolk/junk/bant decks? Sleeve this up (or play Storm if you really want to win)

There's a version of the deck out there for everyone, and one is easily adapted to fill another roll. Good luck!

[affinitypimp]

Not exactly new to Zoo, but I've had a few rounds against them. I built the deck for my friend and she loves it, and I've always asked myself what the scoop is. This is the deck I've built, I don't really do tournaments, I just have decks for a friends to play with. I go to tournaments on rare occasion and I was about trying Zoo.

Zoo:
Creatures: 22
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Wild Nacatl
4x Mother of Runes
3x Qasali Pridemage
2x Gaddoc Teeg
4x Bloodbraid Elf
1x Grim Lavamancer

Artifacts: 5
2x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Behemoth Sledge

Sorcery: 2
2x Chain Lightning

Instant: 12
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Lightning Helix
2x Fireblast

Lands: 19
3x Mountain
3x Forest
2x Plains
2x Raging Ravine
2x Taiga
2x Plateau
4x Wooded Foothills

S/B:
4x Price of Progress
2x Blood Moon
2x Pyrostatic Pillar
1x Balefire Leige
3x Choke
2x Oblivion Ring
1x Qasali Pridemage


Discussion Cards:

Stoneforge Mystic - I am unsure if I should be picking these up and using for my Equipment. Especially with more future So's coming out. If not mystic, then why not Enlightened Tutor. I'm not sure if Zoo based decks run it, I do not see it fitting.

Grim Lavamancer - I'm trying to acquire at least 1-2 more of these. I'd be looking to cut 1x Mother of Runes and 1x Bloodbraid Elf.

Bloodbraid Elf - Again, not sure if Zoo would typically run this, but I am generally glad to be casting it. Digs to my equipment quicker and most times, most, it gives me something I can. It clashes with Swords on rare occasion, but I have always favored them. Mayhap 4x is a bit much, is a reason to looking to replace 1 with Grim Lavamancer.

Null Rod - Was looking to add 2x to my S/B or it I'd need more.

Phyrexian Revoker vs Pithing Needle - Would it be useful? Could name Vial, Stoneforge, Lands, etc.

Baneslayer Angel - I'm aware that Big Zoo runs this, and I think it's nice, but the Equipment just end up doing a lot more.

I have followed the thread a bit. Just taking a better step into the thread I guess you can say.

wheres goyfs or knight of the reliquaries at? behemoth sledge IMO shouldnt be in the list, so i would personally take out 1 jitte and that sledge and slide in 2 stoneforge mystics.

Bloodbraid is decent but it looks like you are trying to play Big Zoo.... so IMO i would take her out and put in 2 elspeths and throw in 2 of something else. Again, where are Goyfs at?? Zoo isnt Zoo without creatures like Goyf and Knight.... afterall, Zoo is about running the cheapest mana cost creatures in the game of magic with lots of power and toughness to boot.

Excluding goyf and knight makes the deck more like another Naya deck...


EDIT: also, raging ravine is kinda on the slow side.... it'll probably get wastedlanded before its benefits of +1 counters become relevant too... so i'd probably run treetop village over that. and if u run equipment in zoo, you need to run SFM.... pick her up now while shes still on the cheap. future sets will always come out with new equipment, and so her prices will always stay up, i predicted this when she was still $5 a pop, and i was right too hence i own 2 playsets of her... and if you must run 3 equipment, i'd put in Basilisk collar over the behemoth sledge, makes your oppeonents think hard about blocking your nacatls with their 5/6 goyfs...

[ZeinVoncy]

Tarmogoyf and Grim Lavamancer don't mix well IMO, so that's why I'm not running Goyf. Tarmogoyf is good, but it is generally a 2/3, 3/4 by time he gets cast and is generally dealt with. I could add him and give it a shot, maybe S/B the Pridemages or something.

Knight of the Reliquary is overrated. I've used him in Standard, Extended and in my Junk Rock and he really is overrated. He's a decent 3cc, and in my build I'm not using many nonbasics that fetches can already grab, or utility lands like Wastelands. I like having the amount of basics I have so I don't screwed over by Stifle, Wasteland or Blood Moon. I'm more reliant on R then any other color.

Behemoth Sledge actually helps out a lot. Making my smaller dudes bigger and giving me life to survive late games. I use Umezawa's Jitte more to control my opponents creature base and to pump for dmg. Trying to use Jitte for all 3 ability just spreads it out too much.

As stated, considering Stoneforge Mystic to fetch my equipment, trying to get them nowadays is getting hard since they've blown up in price. Never should have traded the ones I had.

I understand there's a few Zoo based deck that slightly differ from each other, but how is Naya compared to Zoo?

[Nidd]

and if u run equipment in zoo, you need to run SFM.... pick her up now while shes still on the cheap. future sets will always come out with new equipment, and so her prices will always stay up, i predicted this when she was still $5 a pop, and i was right too hence i own 2 playsets of her... and if you must run 3 equipment, i'd put in Basilisk collar over the behemoth sledge, makes your oppeonents think hard about blocking your nacatls with their 5/6 goyfs...
First things first, please fix your writing. Capital letters, proper punctuation and all that stuff makes your posts much more enoyable to read and you'll be taken serious. Eventually.

And what drives the price of SFM up is not Legacy or Extended by any means, it's Standard - SFM is a 4-of in the best Standard deck right now. Once she rotates, she'll probably drop back to 5-7 per copy.

And if you run 3 equipments, Jitte + SoFaI + SoLaS > all.

[affinitypimp]

i dont expect ppl to take my post seriously, im just saying what i gota say which is what i said about his decklist. but since you are so smart, in punctuation and in the stock market of predecting magic cards, maybe you can clearify it that Goyfs are an auto-include in a Zoo deck. stoneforge is gonna stay around the $20 range tho for sure... just look at bob, in standard he was only $10 or so, but in legacy, which is the only format hes allowed in right now other than vintage, hes $15 and upwards now... standard doesnt keep card prices high for the long run BTW....

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

i dont expect ppl to take my post seriously, im just saying what i gota say which is what i said about his decklist. but since you are so smart, in punctuation and in the stock market of predecting magic cards, maybe you can clearify it that Goyfs are an auto-include in a Zoo deck. stoneforge is gonna stay around the $20 range tho for sure... just look at bob, in standard he was only $10 or so, but in legacy, which is the only format hes allowed in right now other than vintage, hes $15 and upwards now... standard doesnt keep card prices high for the long run BTW....

If you started using proper spelling, grammar and punctuation then people "might" start listening to you.

[troopatroop]

Tarmogoyf and Grim Lavamancer don't mix well IMO, so that's why I'm not running Goyf. Tarmogoyf is good, but it is generally a 2/3, 3/4 by time he gets cast and is generally dealt with. I could add him and give it a shot, maybe S/B the Pridemages or something.

Knight of the Reliquary is overrated. I've used him in Standard, Extended and in my Junk Rock and he really is overrated. He's a decent 3cc, and in my build I'm not using many nonbasics that fetches can already grab, or utility lands like Wastelands. I like having the amount of basics I have so I don't screwed over by Stifle, Wasteland or Blood Moon. I'm more reliant on R then any other color.

Behemoth Sledge actually helps out a lot. Making my smaller dudes bigger and giving me life to survive late games. I use Umezawa's Jitte more to control my opponents creature base and to pump for dmg. Trying to use Jitte for all 3 ability just spreads it out too much.

As stated, considering Stoneforge Mystic to fetch my equipment, trying to get them nowadays is getting hard since they've blown up in price. Never should have traded the ones I had.

I understand there's a few Zoo based deck that slightly differ from each other, but how is Naya compared to Zoo?

You just play a plethora of "different" cards. Your list plays 5 equipments, 19 land, and 8 Bloodbraid Elf/Mother of Runes. You're playing your own homebrew version, and that's fine, but this is the DTB forum. How well that deck does against your friends is unimportant. What matters is how it does against the Legacy metagame, and why your choices are superior to the traditional builds.

I'll tell you right now, that saying Tarmogoyf isn't good enough because he conflicts with your 1 Grim Lavamancer, just isn't going to fly here.

[trivial_matters]

Tarmogoyf and Grim Lavamancer don't mix well IMO, so that's why I'm not running Goyf. Tarmogoyf is good, but it is generally a 2/3, 3/4 by time he gets cast and is generally dealt with. I could add him and give it a shot, maybe S/B the Pridemages or something.

Knight of the Reliquary is overrated. I've used him in Standard, Extended and in my Junk Rock and he really is overrated. He's a decent 3cc, and in my build I'm not using many nonbasics that fetches can already grab, or utility lands like Wastelands. I like having the amount of basics I have so I don't screwed over by Stifle, Wasteland or Blood Moon. I'm more reliant on R then any other color.

Behemoth Sledge actually helps out a lot. Making my smaller dudes bigger and giving me life to survive late games. I use Umezawa's Jitte more to control my opponents creature base and to pump for dmg. Trying to use Jitte for all 3 ability just spreads it out too much.

As stated, considering Stoneforge Mystic to fetch my equipment, trying to get them nowadays is getting hard since they've blown up in price. Never should have traded the ones I had.

I understand there's a few Zoo based deck that slightly differ from each other, but how is Naya compared to Zoo?

Okay, at first I assumed you weren't playing Tarmogoyf because you don't have access to him. If you have a playset available and can use it, then there's abolutely no reason not to. In fact, I highly recommend you do so. The problem with Grim Lavamancer and him is, in reality, not an issue at all. Also, don't sideboard the Pridemages. For your build (without Green Sun's Zenith), stick with four in the mainboard.

Definitely add more Grim Lavamancers as soon as you get them.

I agree that Stoneforge Mystic should come in if you're set on playing equipment. However, five pieces of equipment strike me as excessive. I'd cut one Jitte to begin with and move some combination of the Swords and Behemoth Sledge to the sideboard.

If you have more fetches, play them instead of so many basics. And as troopatroop pointed out, more lands would be good. Test with 21/22 to begin with, then go from there.

As far as I know, Naya refers to RGW decks (or more correctly, to that colour combination). Zoo is sometimes called Naya Zoo. There are basically no decks packing these colours without Tarmogoyf and without at least some number of Knight of the Reliquary. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I hope that helped a bit.

EDIT. About Knight of the Reliquary: I really like this card. To support it, you would need to play more fetches. At least six, I'd say. Even if you have no utility lands to fetch with Knight, you can always grab fetches to make it larger. Traditional Zoo lists typically don't run four copies of it because it's a bit on the slower side; they want to be attacking and usually not tapping to find lands (the only utility lands they play are usually Horizon Canopy and Karakas, perhaps only in the sideboard, but you only need Karakas in special situations). In more midrange builds like yours with Noble Hierarch, I don't recall I've ever seen a list without four Knights. I won't go into all the reasons why I think the card is amazing right now. Give it another try. Don't forget you need more fetches first though.

[affinitypimp]

Okay, at first I assumed you weren't playing Tarmogoyf because you don't have access to him. If you have a playset available and can use it, then there's abolutely no reason not to. In fact, I highly recommend you do so. The problem with Grim Lavamancer and him is, in reality, not an issue at all. Also, don't sideboard the Pridemages. For your build (without Green Sun's Zenith), stick with four in the mainboard.

Definitely add more Grim Lavamancers as soon as you get them.

I agree that Stoneforge Mystic should come in if you're set on playing equipment. However, five pieces of equipment strike me as excessive. I'd cut one Jitte to begin with and move some combination of the Swords and Behemoth Sledge to the sideboard.

If you have more fetches, play them instead of so many basics.

As far as I know, Naya refers to RGW decks (or more correctly, to that colour combination). Zoo is sometimes called Naya Zoo. There are basically no decks packing these colours without Tarmogoyf and without at least some number of Knight of the Reliquary. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I hope that helped a bit.


you are correct BTW. Zoo requires Goyfs and atleast a few knights.... without these guys (small CC for Big Threat) fish will just take you nacatls and bloodbraid elfs lightly and build up their army til they got like 2-3 lords on board... and when that happens (in the rare case where he dont draw removal because he also dont run Sylvan Library) it will be game over quickly

[TUMBLES]

Proper spelling and capitalization is something you agreed to use when you signed up to post. If that's something too difficult for you, you can always leave. Racist remarks aren't helping you.


Zein, Zoo without Tarmogoyf is just not good, and the bad interaction with Lavamancer doesn't really exist. There's no reason not to run it.

[trivial_matters]

You just play a plethora of "different" cards. Your list plays 5 equipments, 19 land, and 8 Bloodbraid Elf/Mother of Runes. You're playing your own homebrew version, and that's fine, but this is the DTB forum. How well that deck does against your friends is unimportant. What matters is how it does against the Legacy metagame, and why your choices are superior to the traditional builds.

I'll tell you right now, that saying Tarmogoyf isn't good enough because he conflicts with your 1 Grim Lavamancer, just isn't going to fly here.

Kinda off-topic:

People have repeatedly posted lists with Bloodbraid Elf here. And a few pages earlier and longer ago, if I remember correctly, some veterans were discussing the idea of replacing Grim Lavamancer with Mother of Runes. This isn't traditional in any way, but still sounds like it's worth trying. I agree the list needs some changing to make it better, but I wouldn't discount it automatically on the basis that it's playing non-standard cards, which in fact might be good.

[ZeinVoncy]

Wow, lots of responses. Thanks for all the input, I'll see if I can get some SFM's and Grimies, put in 4x Tarmogoyf, 2x KotR.

As to Swords over PtE, I do see what you mean with the lifegain, but I'd rather give them that life than a free land which will out tempo myself.

Will throw more fetches in, been looking for Windswept Heath playset for ages now. Will re-post updated version later on tonight. I can get into better details later as well. :D

[Anarchy]

Thought I should input something here.

Mother of Runes is all in all a nice card with alot of applications but Zoo isn't one of em imho. It is not a tempo card it is a control card if anything. I tried playing 4 then 3 then 2 then 0. It wins some games when you can give your Knight or Goyf prot something and get dmg in past their blockers but those times are far between.

Bloodbraid Elf is also a great card, in the old T2 jund decks. In Zoo its kinda bad when you spend 4 mana to cast it and it cascades into a Path/Sword/Bolt. Sure you might get to target an opponents creature with the removal but if you dont the Elf is just a 3/2 hasted creature for 4 mana wich is realy bad.

Grim Lavamancers are great even with Goyfs. Chances are that your opponent also has a few lands and instants in his graveyard so removing your own isnt that bad.

This is the list I am running atm and so far it has been great to me:


CREATURES (22)
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Kird Ape
2 Figure of Destiny
1 Terravore
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Grim Lavamancer
1 Gaddock Teeg

ENCHANTMENTS (2)
2 Sylvan Library

SORCERIES (7)
3 Green Sun’s Zenith
4 Chain Lightning


INSTANTS (9)
3 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Price of Progress

LANDS (20)
4 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
2 Plateau
2 Taiga
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Mountain
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Wasteland


Only card I'm not sure on is the Figures. They are kinda slow and only good in late game if they survive. But atm I'm at a loss to find another 1 mana creature to replace it with.

Ps. Forgive my spelling, english is not my first language.

[affinitypimp]

Wow, lots of responses. Thanks for all the input, I'll see if I can get some SFM's and Grimies, put in 4x Tarmogoyf, 2x KotR.

As to Swords over PtE, I do see what you mean with the lifegain, but I'd rather give them that life than a free land which will out tempo myself.

Will throw more fetches in, been looking for Windswept Heath playset for ages now. Will re-post updated version later on tonight. I can get into better details later as well. :D

yeah Zein, Goyfs are auto include. and from my past experiences of playing zoo in many tournaments (from scg events to small side tournys), Sylvan Library should be 2 of... they are just too good. I can recall one instance where i had a goyf and so did my opponent while he was at 6 life... and then he casts another one... and then a chump blocker while i got my library onto the field... and after getting a free sensei's top activation, i topped decked a lightning bolt and a chain lightning ftw. its just good at giving you options, especially with all of the suffle effects from fetches. but i do gotta say though that StPs are decent, you are right about giving them free mana since i did lose a game before like that against decks that were able to use the mana to kill me the next turn... but with the few lands that we do run, its helped me out before where after getting wastelanded one to two times per game, i had to StP my nacatl to their goyf and PtE it before combat damage.... thats one of the main reasons why i run PtE.

But get a list up again, i wanna see where u go about with your stuff. i would post my list but i almost always change a thing or 4... and u also should consider Green Sun Zenith.... i honestly used to think it sucked, but after much playtesting and much thinking, its just so good... i dont run 4 though since i need lots of burn/removal too, i would say 3 is good enough. They really work wonders for you. When i see the opponent fetch up an underground sea and such, i alrdy assume they are playing TES or ANT... so i usually GSZ for my 1 of MD Gaddock teeg.... and manytimes they will counter the GSZ but lose another blue card usually because of playing they Force of Wills so its still a 2for1 deal. and if they dont counter it, then thats good for you.

On a side note, if you do run Elspeth, Knight Errant, shes such a house VS pretty much anything... she will also take pressure off you from bolts and creatures... basically shes a lightning bolt every turn, thats how i see cause of the evasion and the +3/+3 she gives. anyways i talk too much... i have bad grammar too according to some of these ppl on here... but its cool, cant please everybody...

Your writing is still barely intelligible. In order to comply with the rules of this site and not receive yet more penalties, begin to spell and write in correct English. Thank you. ~Nihil Credo

[affinitypimp]

Thought I should input something here.

Mother of Runes is all in all a nice card with alot of applications but Zoo isn't one of em imho. It is not a tempo card it is a control card if anything. I tried playing 4 then 3 then 2 then 0. It wins some games when you can give your Knight or Goyf prot something and get dmg in past their blockers but those times are far between.

Bloodbraid Elf is also a great card, in the old T2 jund decks. In Zoo its kinda bad when you spend 4 mana to cast it and it cascades into a Path/Sword/Bolt. Sure you might get to target an opponents creature with the removal but if you dont the Elf is just a 3/2 hasted creature for 4 mana wich is realy bad.

Grim Lavamancers are great even with Goyfs. Chances are that your opponent also has a few lands and instants in his graveyard so removing your own isnt that bad.

This is the list I am running atm and so far it has been great to me:


CREATURES (22)
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Kird Ape
2 Figure of Destiny
1 Terravore
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Grim Lavamancer
1 Gaddock Teeg

ENCHANTMENTS (2)
2 Sylvan Library

SORCERIES (7)
3 Green Sun’s Zenith
4 Chain Lightning


INSTANTS (9)
3 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Price of Progress

LANDS (20)
4 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
2 Plateau
2 Taiga
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Mountain
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Wasteland


Only card I'm not sure on is the Figures. They are kinda slow and only good in late game if they survive. But atm I'm at a loss to find another 1 mana creature to replace it with.

Ps. Forgive my spelling, english is not my first language.

dont worry man, english isnt my first language either... but being in the States did help me pick up quick, nice list btw.

[reev_]

well, I'm testing this list now:
( I taked out my loved PoP, and I made the md strongest against mirror and all another aggros, this way let me take no one card in sb against aggro decks (i was used volcanic fallout, cuz is just awesome, but we can take out).

20 lands (1 canopy, 9 fetch)

4 goyf
4 qasali
4 nacatl
4 ape
3 lavamancer
2 kotr
1 gaddock

4 lightning bolt
4 lightning helix
4 path
3 chain lightning
3 gsz

-----

1 gaddock
3 pop
3 reb
2 null rod
2 tariff
2 enlightened tutor
1 canonist
1 relic of progenitus

well, i'm test a lot this against a dark horizon today and sounds good.



sry bad english.

[kabards]

can anyone know's how to deal with Humility? with out main board Gaddock Teeg?
what is the best way to do when dealing against Landstill Walkers with mainboard humility?

[Vandalize]

can anyone know's how to deal with Humility? with out main board Gaddock Teeg?
what is the best way to do when dealing against Landstill Walkers with mainboard humility?

Krosan Grip or Back to Nature

[Shax]

Is five color Zoo still prevelant? I have not seen any reports on these style of Zoo. Domain Zoo would use things like Might of Alara. Sounds bad typing it, but the deck can actually not fold to Wasteland like many other decks do and still find the three lands needed to complete the Domain requirement. I just think it makes Zoo even more dangerous since your basically plodding around with five colors of the best possible beats. (This could mean Confidant, Ape, Goyf, Nacatl) and then paying a G for a pseudo 'Lightning Bolt' plus two. The other good one was Gaea's Might. You could also run Tribal Flames for a potential five damage spell for a one and a R. I think Domain combinations is a good way for Zoo to fight big things. Yeah Merfolk and Goblins wastelands will potentially ruin your day. But is three color Zoo that much better aside from consitancy?

Also, with the new fetches does this open up even more creativity for our mana base/better deck search? I do not think Tribal Flames is going to be that much of a 'bomb' spell for a two mana slot, but the other two Might cards are a worthy addition at dealing the damage on the five color turf.

You also get good sideboard options. Five colors means your never limited as far as that atleast. I think being able to hardcast a Mindbreak Trap is very much win too.

[jandax]

Is five color Zoo still prevelant? I have not seen any reports on these style of Zoo. Domain Zoo would use things like Might of Alara. Sounds bad typing it, but the deck can actually not fold to Wasteland like many other decks do and still find the three lands needed to complete the Domain requirement

But that's exactly how it folds to Wasteland. It's got the most vunlerable mana base in the last 100 years, and it loses the consistency which is one of the selling points of running Zoo.

[trivial_matters]

To be honest, the idea of playing a five-colour aggro deck frightens me (Dredge does not count). I always kinda thought that anything except RGW Zoo was a joke.

[troopatroop]

To be honest, the idea of playing a five-colour aggro deck frightens me (Dredge does not count). I always kinda thought that anything except RGW Zoo was a joke.

Dark Confidant makes black good, and Blue is the best color in legacy. It can most definitely be done.

[ajfennewald]

Dark Confidant makes black good, and Blue is the best color in legacy. It can most definitely be done.
I can def see adding black for confidant and thoughtseize but i really don't see what blue adds.

[Serbitar]

can anyone know's how to deal with Humility? with out main board Gaddock Teeg?
what is the best way to do when dealing against Landstill Walkers with mainboard humility?

Play burn. Humility shouldn't be a problem for a reasonably aggroish Zoo list - at least much less so than Wrath of God (and no one plays that). Zoo isn't supposed to be an answer-to-their-mediocre-answer-deck. Instead, you have to make sure to play (quick) threats.

[Anarchy]

So i went to a small Legacy tournament this weekend. Not gonna write up a proper report but I will give some feedback on good/bad cards.

I did not do so well in the tournamnet finnishing at a very embarasing 2-3-0. But i mainly blame myslef and not the deck. Not a good day to quite smoking...

This was the list i ended up taking. A few quick notes, I forgot my taigas at home and had to run stomping grounds instead, i managed to borrow one just as the tournament started.

CREATURES (22)
4 Wild Nacatl
1 Kird Ape
2 Figure of Destiny
1 Terravore
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Grim Lavamancer
1 Gaddock Teeg

ENCHANTMENTS (2)
2 Sylvan Library

SORCERIES (7)
3 Green Sun’s Zenith
4 Chain Lightning

INSTANTS (9)
3 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Price of Progress
2 Lightning Helix

LANDS (20)
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
2 Plateau
1 Stomping Grounds
1 Taiga
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Mountain
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Wasteland

SB:

2 Null Rod
3 Ancient Grudge
1 Pithing Needle
3 Ethwesworn Canonist
3 Tariff
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Choke

Round 1 against Green and Taxes.

Game one I mulligan to four on the play, awsome start to the day. I end up with 1 Kird Ape 2 Bolts and a Fetch.
I play the monkey and hope for some more beaters from the top deck gods but instead i get 4 lands. Needles to say i lose that game to Mother of Runes and Mangara going nuts.

SB: -1 Teeg -1 Kird Ape -2 PoP... +1 Pithing Needle +3 Ancient Grudge

Game 2 I start of by dropping Needle naming Vial wich is preaty mucg Good game since he hels a hand with 2 Savannahs and I Waste the first one on turn 2. I beat with Goyf and Nacatl and take care of the few threats he manage to drop with Bolts.

Game 3 I mulligan to 6 and keep a hand without artifact hate and gets punished for it, he drops 2 Vials early and i only draw one Pridemage to take care of one. Its a long game with both of us having the upper hand at diffrent times. I end up losing to 2 Serra Avenger wich i didnt find removal for.

0-1

Round 2 against, wait for it...... Dracoplosion! For the ppl that dont know what that is its an old extended deck that won by playing Erratic Explosion and revealing Draco for 16 to the head,

Game 1. I keep a realy good hand with 2 Nacatl, Pridemage, Bolt, Path and lands. He mulligans to 5 and i feel a win coming on. But alas the head judge appears at my side wanting to deck check me... Turns out i didnt write down the taiga on my decklist and instead left it with 2 Stomping Grounds. I get a game loss and we procede to game 2.

SB: None, didnt know what he was playing.

Game 2 I keep a decent hand with some threats. My I beat fast with Nactl and Pridemage. My opponent drops basic lands, mountain, swamp and island and bolts me instead of my creatures. Wich I find weird But on the end of my turn 3 he plays a Lim Duls Vaoult and looks through a bit of his library and then untaps and plays Erratic Explosion. Im completly confused by this and reads the card and then says ok. He flips the top card and its none other then DRACO himself. I take 16 and die.
I cant help but laugh and take it like a man :P The guy im playing turns out to be a realy nice guy and we chat for a while and he tells me about his deck.

0-2

I should have dropped here but I figured what the hell my train dosent leave for another 4 Hours.

Round 3 against Dreadstill.

Not sure on this round but as far as i remember He won the first game with a dreadnought coming down early as hell.

SB: -1 Kird Ape -2 Lightning Helix ...... +3 Ancient Grudge

Game 2 is a long a nice game wich i end up winning with Price of Progress for lethal just as he resolves Dreadnought.

Game 3 I keep a nice hand with a shaky manabase. And i get punnished for it. I play right into his stifle on my first fetch. I then play a dual wich gets wasted and so on. I end up lossing the game ith nothing on the board except for a basic forrest wich i drew.

0-3

Round 4 agains the infaous BYE

N/A

1-3

Round 5 against the Rock with darkdepths/hexmage combo.

Game one we trade blows and spells. He ends up with the upper hand and im facing an army of 2 Knights 2 Goys and a Dark Confidant. Price of Progress comes down and seals the deal for 12 damage. He did not see that one coming.

SB: -1 Gaddock Teeg -1 Kird Ape ....... +2 Tormods Crypt.

Game 2 plays alot like the first but i get a ibrary active early and on my first draw step using it i see Path, Bolt and Path. Nice.
He drops threats and i exile them. He drops Dark Depths and i shit myself, didnt see that coming. I get an active night tho wich finds me a wasteland and he concedes the game.

2-3

All in all the deck felt good and if i had played like i should i would have done alot better. But hey nicotine withdrawls and not having played magic in a tournament for almost a year...

The cards that I am gonna replace are 1 Kird Ape, he just sucks. He's a filler card and i always wish he was something else. He turned into a Ranger of Eos for my next tournament in a week. I was a bit worried about the cmc 4 but as a one off it should be fine. And he is as good as it gets when it comes to card advantage in white.

Secondly I replaced Terravore with a 3rd Knight. Everytime i drew him I wanted him to be a Knight and I never fetched him with GSZ.

Other then that I'm happy with the list. I might try Enlightened Tutor in the SB but not sure yet.

The best card was without a doubt Price of Progress Maindeck.

As always sorry for spelling and grammar, english is not my first language. Hope this was of some use.

[lordofthepit]

Has anyone seen the new Clone?

http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/daily/arcana/692_zveytfd3yo.jpg

It might seem janky at first, but 3 colorless and 2 life is pretty aggressively costed for the ability to clone any artifact or creature on the battlefield. It solves a lot of problems since it doesn't target. Iona? Emrakul? Progenitus? Legend rule them. Sphinx of the Steel Wind? Get your own and take the offensive, forcing your opponent to trade. Duplicates your own Goyfs or Knights, or matches your opponents' fatties (Goyf, Knight, Terravore, Tombstalker, etc.).

Duplicating a powerful artifact like Umezawa's Jitte can probably prove useful too. Three colorless mana isn't too hard for Zoo to reach, and because it's really a 4-cc spell, it evades Counterbalance quite nicely.

There are three main problems with it though:
1) Vulnerability to artifact hate
2) 2 life loss, unless you're playing with Noble Hierarch and have extra mana
3) It's a dead card in topdeck mode if both boards are cleared

I'm not convinced it will make the cut, but it has some potential!

[jandax]

Pff

Has anyone seen (obv) Surgical Extraction?

-It's now a universal sideboard card
-Certain strategies can be kept honest, namely graveyard engine decks. more than just dredge
-It's free. :)
-It costs 2 life :|


That's a solid card to watch coming out of the set. It won't be money rare status, but it's going to do a lot for decks in a lot of constructed formats.

[jandax]

Duplicating a powerful artifact like Umezawa's Jitte can probably prove useful too.


Sorry to double post, just caught this.

If you would Legend Rule a Progenitus, why not a Jitte?

[lordofthepit]

Sorry to double post, just caught this.

If you would Legend Rule a Progenitus, why not a Jitte?

Because I'm a sneaky cheater who hopes my opponent doesn't catch me. :laugh:

That won't work. I guess it's Sword of Fire and Ice or something then.

It seems most of the powerful artifacts in Legacy are either artifact creatures, symmetrical cards (Chalice, Trinisphere, Smokestack, Ensnaring Bridge, etc.), or otherwise cheap cards that you wouldn't try to clone anyway (Lion's Eye Diamond, Aether Vial, and especially Sensei's Divining Top).

[jandax]

I do like the anti-Legend tech though, anda 3(2 life) is definitely affordable for Zoo when considering it's probably a lose-to card they're trading for.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

A brief tournament report.

Round 1 vs GW Aggro
G1: I put him on the wrong deck and get punished for keeping a poor hand.
G2: I have removal for his threats and the rest is Tarmogoyf beats.
G3: Steppe Lynx hits for 5 on turn 2. I burn him out a couple turns later.

2-1

Round 2 vs Faerie Stompy
G1: He plays Chalice for 1. My hand consisted of Tarmogoyf, Tarmogoyf and Knight of the Reliquary.
G2: I get him down to 5 life then we play draw go for a while. I top deck a Krosan Grip and play it on his Chalice for 1. Chain Lightning, Lightning Bolt -- GG.
2-0

Round 3 vs Deadguy Ale
G1: On turn two he plays Dark Ritual, Dark Ritual, Hymn to Tourach, Hymn to Tourach. I magically pull a win on the back of a Sylvan Library and lone Tarmogoyf.
G2: Turn 0 Leyline of Sanctity.
2-0

Round 4
Cancelled due to a car hitting a power line outside, which caused my LGS's power to shut off. The car did catch fire, and I did see some cool explosions though.

[Vandalize]

Will the new Mental Misstep be trouble for Zoo decks?

It can counter a half the deck, I think. Hits Lightning Bolt, Grim Lavamancer, Chain Lightning, Path to Exile, Swords to Plowshares, Wild Nacatl, Kird Ape, Loam Lion, Figure of Destiny, Steppe Lynx, etc...

The drawback is pretty revelant tho, losing 2 life against Zoo can be pretty bad.

[troopatroop]

Zoo isn't a deck that needs to be worried, It's a deck that should be rejoicing. You can play the card yourself, be redundant enough to not care, and also be a damage oriented deck. With two new free cards that cost life, this deck becomes a bit better.

[jandax]

Will the new Mental Misstep be trouble for Zoo decks?

It can counter a half the deck, I think. Hits Lightning Bolt, Grim Lavamancer, Chain Lightning, Path to Exile, Swords to Plowshares, Wild Nacatl, Kird Ape, Loam Lion, Figure of Destiny, Steppe Lynx, etc...

The drawback is pretty revelant tho, losing 2 life against Zoo can be pretty bad.

Chalice at 1 > Mental Misstep

Don't worry about it, let people board it in against you.

[Nelis]

We can always board it in ourselves. Nice Top counter too!

[affinitypimp]

Yesterday i let my friend borrow my Zoo deck at a 10man local legacy tournament. He took 1st place while i took 3rd... i do have to add this that he took out 2 Knight of the Reliquary and replaced them with 2 Burning Tree Shaman.... and i have to say, the Shamans were a hosue.... they were dealing like over 5-6 damages with their annoying abilities alone while the Goyfs and Knights were being chump blocked... i was pretty surprised how badly he beat Forgemaster... even with a Wurmcoil engine out the guy lost cause he was already low in life and a wurmcoil cannot block more than 1 creature..

[lordofthepit]

For those of your running Null Rod to deal with the rise of artifact-based decks, is it time to start switching to Ancient Grudge instead?

An early Null Rod is GG against a lot of the artifact decks, but you only have a 40% chance of drawing it in your opening hand, and we have no library manipulation. You can't aggressively mulligan for it either because your risk getting blown out by a Force of Will or Painter's Servant/Red Elemental Blast against U/R Painter, Thoughtseize or Nature's Claim against Affinity, or fat beats like Wurmcoil Engine against Forgemaster Stompy.

Moreover, Null Rod is completely crippling only against Affinity, but only if they don't already have a significant board presence. It only slows down Painter and Stompy slightly.

Ancient Grudge is a two-for-one Vindicate that can be played at instant speed on turn two, and recurred on turn 3, whether or not they have Counters/Discard. Against U/R Painter, it slows down both their grindout plan and their Emrakul plan (by hitting their manabase), while threatening to fizzle their Blasts by destroying Painter in response. Against Affinity, you can aggressively destroy their crappy manabase and even turn off metalcraft and affinity if you have it early, but you can also answer a Master of Etherium or Cranial Plating if you rip it late, which Null Rod cannot do. Against Forgemaster decks, it answers the devastating Chalice for 1 play (as well as Trinisphere), as well as hitting all their creatures, which they are capable of dropping off Ancient Tomb/City of Traitors. It's pretty solid against the likes of CounterThopter too. The only problem is that it's not great against Storm combo, which Null Rod is solid against.

I used to run 4 copies of Null Rod, but I think I'll start switching a number of them plus Krosan Grips for Ancient Grudge because my metagame is so inundated with artifact based decks.

[jandax]

That's all sound logic, but there are a few things you didn't really take into account. Null Rod is a fire-and-forget type hate artifact. Ancient Grudge is a one time, maybe two time shot, that requires more open mana. Null Rod in the right match up is a great top deck, none the less. In match ups where it is good, your removal is also good, so a Path/Bolt in the mean time will do just fine. I've quite liked it, to be honest. It's unconventional, but I borded in Rod against Storm to a win. Lotus Petal and LED looked pretty dumb in his hand while he dug for a bounce spell.


In general, global effects are better hate for Zoo to pack than one time spells

[Plague Sliver]

I run 3x Null Rod, 2x E-Tutor, 1x Canonist, 1x Pyrostatic Pillar in the board. You won't have an issue with finding the Rod when you can tutor it up, plus it dodges Duress effects.

With Misstep in the format, E-Tutor may be harder to resolve, though.

[lordofthepit]

I run 3x Null Rod, 2x E-Tutor, 1x Canonist, 1x Pyrostatic Pillar in the board. You won't have an issue with finding the Rod when you can tutor it up, plus it dodges Duress effects.

With Misstep in the format, E-Tutor may be harder to resolve, though.

I tried the Enlightened Tutor package back when 43 Lands, Storm, and Dredge were popular about 9 months ago, and I was pretty happy with it. It allowed me to squeeze a lot of silver bullets in the board while protecting from discard. However, Enlightened Tutor package isn't as hot against decks running counterspells that can 2-for-1 you (U/R painter, Counter Thopter, High Tide, etc.) It's also a bit weak against Forgemaster combo because the most dangerous thing they run is Chalice for 1.

[lordofthepit]

I run 3x Null Rod, 2x E-Tutor, 1x Canonist, 1x Pyrostatic Pillar in the board. You won't have an issue with finding the Rod when you can tutor it up, plus it dodges Duress effects.

With Misstep in the format, E-Tutor may be harder to resolve, though.

I tried the Enlightened Tutor package back when 43 Lands, Storm, and Dredge were popular about 9 months ago, and I was pretty happy with it. It allowed me to squeeze a lot of silver bullets in the board while protecting from discard. However, Enlightened Tutor package isn't as hot against decks running counterspells that can 2-for-1 you (U/R painter, Counter Thopter, High Tide, etc.) It's also a bit weak against Forgemaster combo because the most dangerous thing they run is Chalice for 1.

[kabards]

i just got 2 times champion last April 16 & April 23 using my Aggro Zoo.. 5 rounds.. just for PR Pass Tournament.

April 16 - with 11 Players - 5-0

Round 1 - just got Lucky with a bye

Round 2 - vs MBC - got 2-0 - win via aggro nactl and kird ape + burn

Round 3 - vs TES - got 2-0 - win via true believer + combo hate

Round 4 - vs Enchantress - got 2-1 - win via canonist on game 1 + game 2 mindbreak trap

Round 5 - vs Rock - 2-0 - win via aggro + burn

----------------------------------------------

April 23 - with 15 Players - 4-0-1

Round 1 - vs MBC - got 2-0 - win via goyf, nactl + burn

Round 2 - vs Dredge - ID because he was my team mate - 1-1 draw

Round 3 - vs Merfolk - Mono Blue - got 2-1 - misplay on game 1 wrong computation on burn , win via game 2 and game 3 via grim , nactl, goyf

Round 4 - vs Merfolk - Mono Blue - got 2-1 - land drought on game 1 mullgan for 4 1 land play T_T , game 2 and 3 win via grim + goyf + burn

Round 5 - vs BW Deadguy - got 2-0 - he was also my team mate. - win via aggro

-----------------

this was my deck i was currently using:

CREATURES :

4 Wild Nactl
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Kird Ape
2 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 True Believer


SPELLS :

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Path to Exile
3 Lightning Helix


LANDS :

4 Windswepth Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Taiga
3 Plateau
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Arid Mesa
1 Karakas
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountains


SIDEBOARD :

3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Pyroblast
1 Krosan Grip
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Pyroclasm
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Price of Progress
1 Pithing Needle

=============

this wil lbe my deck that i will use this coming April 30 - Mox Sapphire Tournament hope that my zoo will prevail

[affinitypimp]

heres my list for Fast Zoo and its been performing great in playtests:

4 steppe lynx
4 wild nacatl
4 tarmogoyf
2 loam lion
2 grim lavamancer
3 qasali pridemage

4 lightning bolt
4 chain lightning
4 lightning helix
2 fireblast
2 price of progress
3 path to exile
2 sylvan library

11 fetches
2 plateau
2 taiga
1 savannah
1 horizon canopy
1 mountain
1 plains
1 forest

3 green sun zenith
2 gaddock teeg
3 ethersworn cannonist
2 pyroblast
2 red elem blast
3 tormods crypt

so far it beats the hell out of my buddies fish deck and can beat dredge too... i just need to take it to a tournament to try it out. Anyone else having fun with steppe lynx?? i just gotta say that hes a beast... there were plenty of times when he swung with exalted for 5 damage on turn 2.. I'd say just 1 or 2 swings alone makes the steppe lynx worthwhile for inclusion... its true that hes a terrible topdeck, but usually by topdeck, i have nacatls and goyfs to compensate for his MIA from early games. On top of that, goyfs and nacatls can usually only deal 3-4 damage on turn 2-3... steppe lynx on the other hand is a just crazy...

EDIT: Also, depending on what i think the meta will be, i swtich out my sideboard options to the usual suspects of Jitte and/or Kgrips

[YourWayToday]

Hey,

No Goblin Guide? I would replace the 2 Loam Lion and 3 Pridemage's with 4 GG and +1 Lavomancer. Pridemage just doesn't seem great here.

I would replace the Lightning Helix with +1 Fireblast and PoP, and personally I have been running 2 Reckless Charge, but if you don't like these then +2 Fireblast / PoP I guess. I don't really like Helix in this deck at all.

I think 12 fetches, 4 Taiga and 4 Plateau is optimal personally, we don't really need to concern ourselves with wasteland protection, and Horizon Canopy seems out of place.

[affinitypimp]

the pridemages are great and i will never ever take them out of zoo ever again.... theres just been way too many times where they are useful... besides, they help Lynx or Nacatls swing in for 1 more life.... that 1 life point can mean the difference. Also, i was thinking bout cutting back on some helix's, but they are still an instant effect bolt and the life gain is nice VS other aggro decks... i thought about running goblin guide too since he helps u see what they have ready for your early game... ill try testing out GG next time i get a chance.

Also, Horizon canopy is just really good... theres also been many games where i used the draw effect at EOT of opponents and drew a pesky land... then on my draw step i would draw a bolt effect... i even thought bout runnign 1 more.

[Imaginasian]

Hello. First time poster, long time lurker. I've been playing Zoo for the past 5 months recently getting back into Magic after a long hiatus. I've been piloting Zoo to some top 8 finishes at our local tournaments. Our meta is interesting, being comprised of some top tier decks and many rogue decks. Goblins, Fish, Show & Tell, Reanimator, The Gate, NOPRO Bant, Countertop and Elf Ball are many of the decks being played. I've adjusted my build to fit our current meta and it hasn't disappointed yet. Here's the list:

3 Plateau
3 Taiga
1 Savannah
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
3 Arid Mesa
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Mountain

3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Kird Ape
3 Steppe Lynx
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Wooly Thoctor

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
4 Chain Lightning

The SB varies. At the moment we have no combo decks in our meta so it mainly looks like this:

3 Pithing Needle
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Orim's Chant
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Oblivion Ring

I've based some of the deck choices on other people's lists, trial and error, and from what I've seen other players playing. Wooly Thoctor for example I know is just a vanilla creature with a somewhat difficult mana cost. This weekend he was a champ for me against our Fish player. I decided to run 2 copies of KOR and 2 copies of Thoctor which has worked out for me so far. If our meta shifts again I will probably be looking at playing GSZ for obvious reasons, but I've yet to test it. I like the applications of it giving you a better late game if it gets that far. I'm looking for some feedback. If you have any advice or questions I would appreciate it.

Thanks

[jandax]

Don't wait for the meta game to shift. Go ahead and run GSZ. It's a wonderful addition to the deck, you won't look back.

[affinitypimp]

Hello. First time poster, long time lurker. I've been playing Zoo for the past 5 months recently getting back into Magic after a long hiatus. I've been piloting Zoo to some top 8 finishes at our local tournaments. Our meta is interesting, being comprised of some top tier decks and many rogue decks. Goblins, Fish, Show & Tell, Reanimator, The Gate, NOPRO Bant, Countertop and Elf Ball are many of the decks being played. I've adjusted my build to fit our current meta and it hasn't disappointed yet. Here's the list:

3 Plateau
3 Taiga
1 Savannah
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
3 Arid Mesa
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Mountain

3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Kird Ape
3 Steppe Lynx
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Wooly Thoctor

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
4 Chain Lightning

The SB varies. At the moment we have no combo decks in our meta so it mainly looks like this:

3 Pithing Needle
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Orim's Chant
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Oblivion Ring

I've based some of the deck choices on other people's lists, trial and error, and from what I've seen other players playing. Wooly Thoctor for example I know is just a vanilla creature with a somewhat difficult mana cost. This weekend he was a champ for me against our Fish player. I decided to run 2 copies of KOR and 2 copies of Thoctor which has worked out for me so far. If our meta shifts again I will probably be looking at playing GSZ for obvious reasons, but I've yet to test it. I like the applications of it giving you a better late game if it gets that far. I'm looking for some feedback. If you have any advice or questions I would appreciate it.

Thanks

Looks like you are trying to get in for quick damage in the early game since you are running Steppe Lynx... i would probably want to cut an ape and run up to 4 copies of the Lynx... you always want to draw one in your opening hand because of the amount of pressure he can cook up to an opponent on turn 2-3 and even turn 4.

Also, after doing more playtesting with steppe lynx, i'm currently going to 12 fetches now and im not turning back, i used to run 10 and then 11.. but the early game with steppe lynx is VERY important if you want to apply early pressure. I'd also like to state that without the inclusion of steppe lynx, the deck seems to lean more towards Regular Zoo (mid range if you wanna call it that).

After doing hours of testing with different people, I'd also like to say that goblin guide has been VERY good at testing... hes never a bad option in your opening hand and hes never a bad topdeck... there were many times where i would Turn 1 steppe lynx, pass turn. Turn 2 play a fetch, crack it to fetch a mountain land and then swing for 6 damage on turn 2. Thats like 1/3 of your opponents life basically... 6 damage on turn 2 is huge BTW, remember reanimator decks going off on turn 2 with Akroma... thats basically what you are doing here (ofcourse the little pussy cat and a goblin are no match for a akroma)

Anyone had any success in a rather large tournament with Steppe Lynx?

[jandax]

Sure, but I only played three. Through my own experience, I never wanted to draw more than one, at any point in the game. If you play your fetch lands conservatively, it's not a bad draw.

[j.Tho]

I went 7-2 with zoo this weekend at the Star City Open in Boston. First time playing legacy ever. Had a blast. Got 19th. Here's the list I ran:

CREATURES (20)

4 Wild Nactl
3 Kird Ape
3 Loam Lion
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Terravore

SPELLS (19)

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Rift Bolt
2 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Lightning Helix
2 Sylvan Library
1 Fireblast

LANDS (21)

4 Arid Mesa
3 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Plateau
3 Taiga
2 Savannah
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Forrest
1 Mountain
1 Plains

SIDE BOARD (15)

2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Kataki, War's Wage
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Mindbreak Trap
2 Krosan Grip

My list has one or two unorthodox includes/excludes. I didn't run any Paths, or Lavamancers, or Knights of the Reliquary -- all fantastic cards that seem to be really en vogue for zoo decks. Instead, I ran more Kird Animals and burn. This was an attempt to improve my matchup against combo. The idea being that by limiting dead cards and increasing redundancy I could achieve a more consistent and meaningful Game One without also then giving up too much ground in my aggro matchups.

Here's a breakdown of some card choices and my reasoning (I have very little experience with the deck and format, so keep that in mind when I say something obviously stupid. Feedback very appreciated):

Path to Exile x 0

PtE was the last card I cut, and will probably be the first card I put back in. Ultimately, though, it didn't gel with my build's thesis, and I felt I could get away with replacing it. Path is a great answer to most giant creatures, but it doesn't answer Emrakul and it doesn't answer Progenitus -- two of the three giant creatures I'm most afraid of. Sure, it's a nice card to have against Knight of the Reliquary, Tarmogoyf, Coralhelm Commander, Tombstalker, etc.

My thinking was that these demi-giant creatures, while still threats, wouldn't be able to end the game in one swing on their own, so if I gained an early tempo advantage via creature pressure and burn I would create a game state in which my opponent's bigger threats were forced to defend. Once this happened, I could just wait for favorable combat math, creating a board stall that would likely swing in my favor due to the amount of direct damage my list is packing. So I cut my PtE's with all this in mind, hoping Pridemage would be enough maindeck action against Stiflenaught.

Rift Bolt x 3

So what's the natural alternative to one of the best removal spells ever printed? I don't know. Not Rift Bolt, but that's what I put in over Path (3x Rift Bolt, 1x Fireblast). While not as cool as Path, Rift Bolt still manages to be pretty cool. It does a lot of neat things for the deck. For instance, Suspend 1 gives you virtual turn-one removal that essentially avoids Daze while setting up powerful turn-two tempo plays (Turn 1: land, suspend Rift Bolt. Turn 2: untap, resolve Rift Bolt, land, Nactl, etc etc). Its casting cost helps get around Counter/Top and Chalice (and Mental Misstep, once it's legal). It's a sorcery, which helps pump Tarmogoyf. Best of all, it's three damage for one mana, which increases the chances of resolving nine damage by turn two. Against any deck that plays Ad Nauseam, that kind of pressure seemed to vastly increase likelihood of winning, especially on the play. In nine rounds of Legacy I was never unhappy to draw Rift Bolt.

Kird Ape x 3 / Loam Lion x 3
Pat Cox top 8'd Atlanta with six of these guys in his zoo. Awesome list. His version also ran an equipment package, so he got a little more value out of his Kird Animals than I did, but even without equipment their 2/3 bodies and their one-mana casting cost makes them worthwhile. Three toughness on turn one*lets you control the initial pace of a lot of aggro matchups, especially against the tribal decks. On the attack, three toughness limits an opponents ability to trade creatures with you when blocking becomes the play. Untapped, three toughness creates a wall that necessitates lords, goyfs, or three-drops. If you're representing burn, you basically control the combat phase turns 1 through 4.

Cox played a 4-2 Ape/Lion split. I think it should probably be 3-3. Loam Lion is perhaps more resilient than Kird Ape because it avoids Hydroblast effects?

Knight of the Reliquary x 0

Wonderful, powerful card. I don't like it in zoo -- not because it's bad in zoo, per se. I mean, it's in the winning zoo lists. It wins. Can't argue with that. I just don't know what it's in zoo for. Sure, different zoo builds get varied mileage out of the knight's tap ability, but none of the lists I've seen really lean on its utility. In zoo it's basically a big dude that gets bigger, which is a fine thing for a creature to be, but to what end?

The knight's casting cost helps with counter/top, but Green Sun's Zenith kinda already solves that problem -- and you don't want three drops against combo decks. In the matches where you want a big creature, Tarmogoyf is normally big enough for the job. I guess Knight of Reliquary is good against other Knights of the Reliquary, but so is path. And knights stalling each other out creates a sort of neutral board position where both sides are just waiting to draw something else, unless of course one of the decks is taking better advantage of the knight's tap ability, but that probably won't be the zoo deck. In my opinion, Zoo doesn't need Knight of the Reliquary.

I'm firmly in the one-of Terravore camp. It's "worse" than Knight of the Reliquary, but it absolutely destroys Knight of the Reliquary so who cares. This three-drop is a murder machine. It tramples, giving it value beyond dumb power/toughness arms races. It's also a lhurgoyf, so it fits nicely into zoo's lhurgoyf sub-theme…

In nine rounds I played against:

Merfolk
Affinity
Bant
Junk
NO Bant
TES
Goblins
Merfolk
TES

I lost to Junk and Merfolk. If anyone is curious about any specific matches let me know and I'll give details.

[JVzer0]

I lost to Junk and Merfolk. If anyone is curious about any specific matches let me know and I'll give details.

Congrats on the finish. Maybe it's a bit greedy of me, but I'd love to read an overall tournament report if you're willing to write one. If not, then I'm curious to hear how the two matchups against TES played out.

[j.Tho]

Congrats on the finish. Maybe it's a bit greedy of me, but I'd love to read an overall tournament report if you're willing to write one. If not, then I'm curious to hear how the two matchups against TES played out.


Sure. Some of the matches are hazy. It was a long day and I ended up playing a lot longer than I thought I was going to. I wish I'd taken notes. Next time I will.

I do remember the two TES matches somewhat clearly, as well as the two matches I lost and a few others. I'll do my best to assemble some sort of tournament report, but I'll start with the TES for now.

So as you can see from my deck list, my sideboard is pretty geared towards combo. I bring in ten cards against TES (4x Canonist, 2x Teeg, 4x Mindbreak Trap). Surprisingly, I took game one in both my TES matches, lost game two, won game three.

(apologies in advance if my opponents are reading this and I got some details wrong. I'm sure I did, but the overall narrative of each game should be essentially correct)

TES #1 (Round 6)

Game 1
I'm on the play. I drop a turn one Nactl and pass. My opponent keeps a hand with no land (I can't remember if he mulled or not). He plays a lotus petal and ponders. Still no land drop. On my turn I play a land, swing 3 and then play another Nactl and an Ape. My opponent plays a mox diamond (I think?) and brainstorms. I play a land, swing 8, play pridemage, kill mox, pass. Nothing really happens on my opponents turn. I take game 1.

Game 2
I don't see any of my hate, but I have a decent seven so I decide to keep. I populate the board and hold some burn in my hand. He goes off turn 2 I think? He hits an empty the warrens with his ad nauseam and I hope he decides to storm with it, which I'm pretty confident would give me the win, but he keeps going and eventually flips over a burning wish, which leads to tendrils and game 3.

Game 3
I keep an opening hand with some hate bears. I go Ape into Canonist into Zenith for Teeg into Goyf. My opponent manages to burning wish for a pyroclasm a turn too late and I take game 3

TES #2 (Round 9)

Game 1
My opponent mulligans to 6 on the play and keeps (after the match he explained he kept a hand with Tendrils in it, which is not ideal, but he didn't want to go to 5). He drops a fetch, cracks it, and turn one duresses me, taking a Bolt. I play a loam lion on my turn. My opponent ponders turn two. I play another land, a nactl, then I swing and chain lightning my opponent to 14. Turn three he plays a second land, ponders, passes. I drop another land on my turn, swing for 5, play a pridemage, pass. My opponent is at 9. He dumps his hand and plays a defensive tendrils to stabilize, he passes back to me with an empty hand and a lions eye diamond in play. I swing for 7, sac pridemage to destroy his diamond, play a goyf and my opponent concedes.

Game 2
The details of this game are running together in my memory. My opponent mulls to 6 again. I keep a hand with a canonist in it I think, I don't remember exactly. I know my first play is Loam Lion and he strips my hate from my hand. I get him to 10 life. He casts ad nauseam, bringing him to 4, then he combos off.

Game 3
This time my opponent keeps his opening hand, and I mull, mull, mull to four! But check out my four: Horizon Canopy, Loam Lion, Ethersworn Canonist, Ethersworn Canonist. Good lord. Turn one canopy, loam lion, pass. My opponent plays a land and takes a long time looking at his hand. He has the turn 1 win, but he saw me board in 10 cards so he assumes I have mindbreak trap in my deck. He also assumes that because I mulled to four mindbreak trap is most likely the only card that can beat him. After much internal debate he taps for black and duresses me, which is totally the "right" play, but turns out to be the wrong play. He sees my two canonist, shakes his head, and passes. I top deck a plateau, swing for 1, play my first canonist, pass. He ponders, plays a land, passes. I draw a zenith, swing 3, play canonist, pass. He passes. I draw a fetch into taiga, swing 6, zenith for teeg. Next turn my opponent Chain of Vapors a canonist and then concedes.

Both my opponents were super nice guys. They had been playing the deck for a long time and it was fascinating watching them evaluate their hands and then combo off. After our match, my round 5 opponent was also cool enough to explain the difference (or lack of difference) between TES and ANT, putting both decks in a historical context that was actually pretty interesting.

I had played against TES the day before in a Legacy side event during the standard portion of the open. It was the first time I'd ever played against TES and my opponent was deaf so I was worried I would be totally confused, but he was really cool guy and had an easy to follow dice system for keeping track of mana and storm count that I think probably helped me learn more about the deck than I would have otherwise. I lost that match. I took game 1 with early pressure that forced a defensive tendrils. Game 2 teeg and canonist helped bring him to 1 life, then he managed a storm count off of artifacts that allowed him use the grapeshot he had wished for on the previous turn to kill my hate bears, letting him ill-gotten gains to the win. Holy shit. Epic Storm indeed! Game 3 he won on his first turn.

I'll try to give some sort of write up on the other matches later today

[Plague Sliver]

@j.Tho: really solid build and I enjoyed your rationale for including/not including certain cards. I have been feeling the same about Knight lately - mind you, you don't really want to use her tap ability. If you need to, you're not swinging with a big dude. I just like the 3 CC on my curve, although I may go down to 2x Knight instead of 3.

I'm not a big fan of Apes/Lions - much prefer Lynx w/ 12 fetchlands - but they do help vs. T1 Lackey etc so that you can focus your burn on the opponent.

Curious to hear about your Merfolk matchup - did they side in Jitte, Mind Harness, Submerge against you?

[keys]

Good report, j.Tho. Having solid combo hate in the board is really important, and I like that you went all out. However, I think some of your more unconventional maindeck choices hurt you. Especially in the merfolk matchup, Grim Lavamancers are key, and Rift Bolt should have been Path as you admitted.

I am on your side when it comes to the 2/3s, though. They have always been solid for me. The consistency they bring is worth much more to me than the occasional explosiveness of Lynx. I'd encourage you to try out some equipment to compliment them. Basilisk Collar in particular is fantastic at turning 2/3s into threats throughout the game, and it's obviously a house with Lavamancer.

Terravore is not a bad replacement for Knight. His body and evasion is significant. That said, sometimes the ability to tutor lands is really important. My current list curves out at 3cc with 2 Knights (and I don't play Zenith), along with 1 Canopy, 1 Karakas, and 1 Bojuka Bog (SB) as tutor targets.

Speaking of Zenith, I'm still not convinced of it's strength in Zoo. Making every creature costs an additional mana is not something Zoo can tolerate easily, and I don't believe the deck gains enough utility to justify the cost. If Counterbalance was still a DTB, I could see the reasoning. Perhaps testing will change my mind.

Here's my current list:

4 Wild Nacatl
3 Kird Ape
2 Loam Lion
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Chain Lightning
3 Lightning Helix
3 Path to Exile
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
3 Arid Mesa
3 Plateau
2 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains

Sideboard:
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Krosan Grip
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Pyroclasm
1 Bojuka Bog

10 SB cards against combo, and my opposing aggro matchups are still very favorable. With Knight--> Karakas, O Ring, Teegs, and Blasts, I have decent game against NO Show, as well.

[LostButSeeking]

Forgive my intrusion (I'm not a zoo player) but something's come up that I wanted to ask people that actually had experience playing Zoo.

Unless you've been living at the bottom of a lake for the past couple of weeks, one of the cards from the upcoming set that has everyone buzzing is Mental Misstep, which allows you to counter a spell with CC1 for the low-low cost of paying two life. Now, on the previous page, you guys had a discussion that went along the lines of:


Will the new Mental Misstep be trouble for Zoo decks?


No.


Don't worry about it.

(I'm paraphrasing here, obv.).

I agree wholeheartedly here. Zoo is far too resilent and redundent to collapse because people are PAYING LIFE to counter your spells. I also applaud your levelheadedness here; it's refreshing to get away from the doomsayers. MM will be the death of legacy! Tempo Decks>All! 56 card decks!

And it's this last point I wanted to discuss with you all, because Zoo is considered one of the prime benefactors of this "gift". Supposedly, Zoo now has a way of interacting with noninteractive decks, or disrupting decks in ways it couldn't before. Things like:


On the contrary, blue loses a lot of its attractiveness if fast aggro decks like Zoo can cripple combo decks fairly reliably, even if only out of the board.



For zoo and goblins decks, it can stop a Swords to Plowshares; it also counters Dark Ritual and High Tide.




Zoo- Big Gainer, GSZ + This gives it a fighting Chance against combo.


But as literally no one on this thread has mentioned moving it either into the main or the sideboard, I'm curious where you stand on it. There are a bunch of interconnecting points in this question; will this help against Swords/Path? Will this help you against combo? Is this an automaindeck card, or a sideboard? What would you sideboard it in against?

Also, I apologize for the tone of this. I'm writing my final papers and I've been reading advanced postcolonial theory, and that gets to you after a while.

[Aggro_zombies]

But as literally no one on this thread has mentioned moving it either into the main or the sideboard, I'm curious where you stand on it. There are a bunch of interconnecting points in this question; will this help against Swords/Path? Will this help you against combo? Is this an automaindeck card, or a sideboard? What would you sideboard it in against?

Also, I apologize for the tone of this. I'm writing my final papers and I've been reading advanced postcolonial theory, and that gets to you after a while.
Swords/Path: Green Sun's Zenith exists and is much better.

Will this help against combo? No, because it does not mesh well with Zoo's strategy for fighting combo.

Main or side? Neither, as it is not really very good in this deck, even in situations where you want to counter a 1cc card. There actually aren't a lot of 1cc cards that hurt Zoo and to which it currently has no other effective answers.

[jandax]

[QUOTE=keys;542185[deck[/QUOTE]

-5 Kird Animals, +3 Steppe Lynx, +2 Fireblast


Try it

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Swords/Path: Green Sun's Zenith exists and is much better.

I can't help but notice that it costs a lot more tempo to get another Goyf than to stop your first from getting Plowed.


Will this help against combo? No, because it does not mesh well with Zoo's strategy for fighting combo.

This doesn't mean anything. "I don't board in 4 Tormod's Crypt because it doesn't mesh with the rest of Zoo's strategy for fighting Ichorid."

What in the flying fuck does that mean? I'm pretty sure countering Rituals and High Tides is good for a fast deck trying to beat combo.


Main or side? Neither, as it is not really very good in this deck, even in situations where you want to counter a 1cc card. There actually aren't a lot of 1cc cards that hurt Zoo and to which it currently has no other effective answers.

You don't seem to have done a casting cost comparison on these answers. Like you can Pridemage a Vial, but tha'ts a fuckload worse than just countering it for free.

[keys]

-5 Kird Animals, +3 Steppe Lynx, +2 Fireblast


Try it

I have. Don't like it.

Lynx is better in burn, speed zoo, or any deck that is just goldfishing. Zoo needs fast but reliable damage. Kird animals carry equipment and play defense much better as well. Kird Ape with a Basilisk Collar will hold the ground against most threats.

Fireblast is awkward in a deck that plays basic plains, forest, savannah, canopy, karakas... I prefer Helix. It's a bigger life swing in aggro matchups and won't cut me off red if I need to use it early. The life gain can also put me out of Tendrils range, or buy an extra turn against progenitus.

[Aggro_zombies]

I can't help but notice that it costs a lot more tempo to get another Goyf than to stop your first from getting Plowed.
I can't help but notice that GSZ for Tarmogoyf is infinitely better in situations where you're trying to solidify board position or race than drawing a card that does literally nothing to alter the board state.


This doesn't mean anything. "I don't board in 4 Tormod's Crypt because it doesn't mesh with the rest of Zoo's strategy for fighting Ichorid."

What in the flying fuck does that mean? I'm pretty sure countering Rituals and High Tides is good for a fast deck trying to beat combo.
Well, yeah, countering Rituals and High Tides is great. But...given that you're only allowed to run 4 Mental Missteps, and given that these are the only counters available for Zoo (aside from the craptacular Mindbreak Trap), and given that Zoo's plan in those matchups is to produce as much damage as possible in the smallest time frame, and given that Ad Noz and TES decks can win with artifact mana that costs zero and tutors that cost two, and given that High Tide has as many counters as Zoo does (assuming 4 Misstep) and can halt the racing plan with a 3cc card (Hibernation), and given that Mental Misstep does not turn sideways for damage or invalidate entire suites of cards (like Null Rod does), why does this help Zoo's combo matchup...?




You don't seem to have done a casting cost comparison on these answers. Like you can Pridemage a Vial, but tha'ts a fuckload worse than just countering it for free.
Since when does Zoo care that much about Aether Vial? Since when is countering Vial worth two life and a card, and since when is countering Vial better than just running more burn which can at least kill the opponent in situations where you're ahead and trying to win? In other words, since when has the Vial matchup gotten so bad for Zoo that it's worth it to board in a card that hits maybe four other relevant cards against those decks and does nothing otherwise?

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I mean you already run 20+ creatures. You shouldn't need to do much else to have a threat on board unless they produce removal, which is where Misstep comes in. Ditto to applying pressure to combo. It's perfectly possible to fit in Misstep and still run 20+ creatures and 12+ burn spells.

And Aether Vial is a huge deal in the Goblins matchup, since it gives a good Goblins player much more time to play defense and throw up blockers.

[j.Tho]

I mean you already run 20+ creatures. You shouldn't need to do much else to have a threat on board unless they produce removal, which is where Misstep comes in. Ditto to applying pressure to combo. It's perfectly possible to fit in Misstep and still run 20+ creatures and 12+ burn spells.

I mean, when you put it that way, why not just run Avoid Fate?...

I realize MM is free and more versatile than just creature protection, but I think I'd rather run another burn spell or dude instead, something more proactive. A lot of the things I can see MM doing can be solved with tools zoo already plays. For instance:

Your opponent removes an Ape? you play another Ape. Your opponent doesn't remove an Ape? awesome, now you have two Apes.

Your opponent plays a small creature? Hit it with a bolt. Your opponent doesn't play a creature? awesome, hit your opponent with the bolt.

But I could be wrong. Mental Misstep is a really powerful tempo card. And it could be the case that being able to populate the board and play removal while using a free spell to deny your opponent their early plays, is totally, utterly back breaking. MM could turn out to be a pseudo turn-one Time Walk. And in that sense it would be a very proactive card that is totally in zoo's game plan. It will be interesting to see what happens with the card.

And I guess there is something to be said about being able to mess with a combo decks math by MMing their rituals or whatever, or protecting your actual hate cards from their thoughtseizes, but I don't think that's a powerful enough effect to warrant a place in a sideboard. I could see MM being either good enough for the zoo maindeck, or nowhere in the 75.

[lordofthepit]

Has anyone seen the new Clone?

Now that I've had time to contemplate how awesome Mental Misstep will be for the format, I'm setting my eyes back on Phyrexian Metamorph. I think this will actually be the big card for Zoo in this set.

As I've mentioned, and as I'm sure everyone is aware, it plays awesome against the following legends that normally own Zoo's ass:
- Emrakul. It's almost always brought into play with Show and Tell. Between 4 Phyrexian Metamorphs, 4 Knight of the Reliquary, and 1 Karakas, Zoo decks now have nine ways to say no to Emrakul off a Show and Tell, and it can't even be countered at that. (Plus Grim Lavamancer with a Basilisk Collar, fetchable with Stoneforge Mystic, does the trick too.)
- Iona. No opponent in their right mind names blue against Zoo with Iona, but Zoo now has an additional trump. This along with Karakas (or a preemptive Metamorph), or even simply racing (which gets much easier with any type of equipment in play).
- Progenitus. This has traditionally been the most difficult threat to answer, but Metamorph does the trick regardless of whether it's dropped off a Show and Tell or a Natural Order.

Here are some other problematic creatures:
- Sphinx of the Steel Wind. Your Sphinx of the Steel Wind trumps theirs because Zoo is more than happy to trade. If they don't want to trade, you're swinging for 6 with lifelink each turn, and vigilance means they can't even strike back unless they want to trade.
- Tombstalker. Path, Swords, or double burn does the trick, but here's another answer.
- Coralhelm Commander. The Merfolk matchup is favorable, but when I lose, it's almost always to a Coralhelm Commander backed by Kira and other countermagic. We'll have to level up, but now we have a flier that matches theirs, and benefits from their Lord of Atlantis.
- Kira, Great Glass Spinner. Also a pain in the ass. Problem solved.
- Siege-Gang Commander. Zoo tends to have more "open mana" late game than Goblins, because of their card advantage engine, so we make better use of the 8 damage from SCG. Metamorph is terrible against any of their other creatures though.
- Dark Confidant. If for some reason, you cannot kill this as soon as it hits, at least you can benefit from Bob. In general, Zoo could probably use Bob better than its opponents because our curve should be lower and it will allow us to draw into more removal.
- Mother of Runes. An unremoved Mother of Runes is a pain in the ass to deal with because it slows your ground attack to a halt while eventually allowing their fatties to swing through yours. You can return the favor now.

Of course, you can (usually) always target a Tarmogoyf, Knight of the Reliquary, Terravore, Qasali Pridemage, Stoneforge Mystic, etc.

I think with this card, Zoo can be tweaked to have a strong matchup against opposing aggro strategies, control decks, and even artifact-based and fatty-based combo. "Stack" based combo like Belcher, Tendrils, and High Tide remain a bad problem, and Metamorph is a terrible card in those matchups. You want a creature in those matchups, and you want them immediately without having to "wait" for a better creature to drop. But if Mental Misstep catches on in the format as much as it has been hyped, those archetypes will likely become a reduced presence in the metagame: not only do they tend to rely on some key 1 cc spells, but Countertop is one of the decks that likely stands to gain most from Mental Misstep, which provides yet another force against stack-based combo.

Likewise, Phyrexian Metamorph is pretty terrible against Elves (you want removal, not fatties, so duplicating a fatty for 3 mana is even worse, plus they have no worthwhile targets until they're ready to Time Walk and annhiliate you), but Mental Misstep hoses them pretty hard too.

[trivial_matters]

Regarding Mental Misstep, so far I totally agree with Aggro_zombies and j.Tho.
The way I see it, the only place where it'd be of any use would be against combo, where it's even worse than Mindbreak Trap.

I guess I'll have to try it out though, to be completely sure.

[marax]

Regarding this list:

8 Fetch
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Savannah
2 Taiga
1 Plateau
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain

3 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Terravore

4 Green Sun's Zenith

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Path to Exile

2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte


Sideboard:
1 Wasteland
2 Bojuka Bog
2 Pithing Needle
2 Pyroblast
2 Krosan Grip
1 Choke
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Null Rod
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Rule of Law


I am planning to add 4 MM to that list. The list has proven to be solid in my local metagame netting both my test partner and me a Dual land as price in a ~60 man tournament with a dual pick for top 10. The list lacks cardtypes to support Tarmogoyf if the opponent happens to not to and has trouble against NO decks, Combo, being tempoed out by other agressive decks (Mirror, Fast Zoo).

I have tested a bit with the following changes:
- 1 Jitte
- 1 Path
- 2 Goyf
+ 4 MM

This increases my chances to draw a bad topdeck when behind on the board and out of cards (like Noble Hierarch does) but offers so much in every other situation. The card offers so much tempo because you can invalidate mana spent by the opponent at the cost of 2 life which is great both on offense as well as defense.
Some possible strong starts:
On the Play:
T1 Nacatl/Hierarch
MM on Removal/opponents creature/Vial
T2 Wasteland
attack/cast more stuff

On the draw:
A lot of green based creature "mirrors" go like this
Person on the play keeps connecting and deminishing my life due to exalted making blocks impossible. If you spend targeted removal early you are out of it for KoR/big Goyfs by turn 3 to 5. If you try/have to doubleblock removal from their side is a real blowout. MM is an awesome solution here. It is narrower than another Sword/Path for this kind of problem but I believe it also is more powerful because it is "free" so I can tap out for a KoR instead of casting a Goyf and leaving white for Sword/Path.

I can also hardcast the spell later in game to preserve life via Noble Hierarch. I still have to test the changes to the Dredge matchup since I hope it will greatly benefit as well so that I can afford to maybe cut 1 GH from the board and play a second choke to help with High tide (and be of use in other matchups as well). MM will also slow down Storm decks to make Hate bears have an impact more often in those games while also stopping Deathmark, Chain of Vapor on Hate bears later. This way the storm player will need two kind of solutions in deck (or BW) to interact both with permanent based hate and hand based hate leading to situations where they will have the wrong kind of answer to my troublemakers. This will not make combo an easy matchup but should increase my odds above 40% postboard at the least.


Regarding Mental Misstep, so far I totally agree with Aggro_zombies and j.Tho.
The way I see it, the only place where it'd be of any use would be against combo, where it's even worse than Mindbreak Trap.

I guess I'll have to try it out though, to be completely sure.

MM is of great use against a great many decks and has the additional benefit of being a nice card to have against combo. If I would be worried to really beat combo I would run a different archetype. I agree that the card is too weak as a specific storm combo hoser and I would not put it into the SB either and stick to E. Canonist; Teeg; Rule of Law, Mindbreak Trap etc.

[Plague Sliver]

Phyrexian Metamorph discussion

It's a great answer vs. Progenitus. The question is, do you want to run this in the SB instead of 4x REBs? That's what I would do vs. the S&T plan and the occasional Counterbalance. (I could even see Metamorph used in CB, but that's another discussion.)

I would say based on your analysis, the advantages outweigh the drawbacks. Being able to legend rule anything is pretty nice. It would be interesting to see if this strategy starts to catch on, and if Zoo can find the slots for it.


I could see MM being either good enough for the zoo maindeck, or nowhere in the 75.

Word.

[j.Tho]

@Plague Sliver. The merfolk players did indeed side in submerge, which was annoying, but not backbreaking. I assume they also brought in Jitte, but I didn't see any. It's a favorable matchup for zoo, but I lost to merfolk 1-2 in the first round (which is why my tie-breaks were so bad and I got 19th instead of top 16). Game three I had all the tools to win, but I was playing around wastelands (that didn't exist, turns out) and I stupidly left myself without two red sources when he played Kira. Ugh. Live and learn.

The next time I saw Merfolk was round 8. I won the match 2-0. My opponent had splashed white and was playing an equipment package. I play a red deck in standard, so I have plenty of experience using burn against decks that try to equip small creatures. I just kept the weapons out of the hands of his adepts and curse catchers. Game two I won off the back of three pridemages and a hilarious fireblast for exactly 4 damage.

Rift Bolt was an all-star in both of these matches

@Keys. Absolutely. Grim Lavamancer is super powerful, very good against the tribal decks. I decided to go with Kird Apes over Lavamancer because Apes are faster.



Additional thoughts on Mental Misstep:

Magic is sometimes described as a game of questions and answers, and I personally think it's a good way to evaluate and discuss card choices. Every deck needs to both ask and answer questions at different stages of the game. Depending on the matchup and board state, any given card has the potential to do either. For example: a turn one Kird Ape against an opponent's Noble Hierarch feels more like a question; a turn one Kird Ape against an opponent's Goblin Lackey feels more like an answer. It's important not to create a false dichotomy. Even the more answer-ish cards like Path to Exile are also simultaneously asking questions, but for most decks the threat posed by cards like PtE is so abstract that a specific response is unnecessary -- or is automatically built into the deck. Some decks, of course, rate spot removal higher on their threat list, which is why you see Kira, Great Glass-Spinner in merfolk lists. Kira is the best kind of answer because it's also a creature and therefore itself poses The Question: figure out a way to deal with me or you lose. A pretty good question. It's why hate bears are so good.

Zoo is a deck that more often than not wants to be asking the questions during the early turns of a game, and it runs cards that accomplish this. The zoo list is full of redundant, powerful low-curve creatures. its burn suite provides early answers that transition to late-game reach. It also has a few versatile answer cards like Path to Exile.

So let's think about Mental Misstep and how it fits into Zoo. What does MM answer that needs to be answered? Zoo necessarily doesn't care about protecting its creatures beyond making sure they enter the battlefield with enough toughness to swing. Zoo doesn't care about giving permission to an opponent's early plays. Zoo doesn't care about any other decks' one drops, unless it's playing against another zoo deck (I actually think MM would be pretty good in the mirror to break parity and gain a tempo advantage). Zoo just doesn't give a fuck.

How can zoo can afford to be so punk rock?

Zoo plays 3/3's for G. On turn two, a 3/3 for G doesn't need any support. It doesn't need to worry about getting into the red zone -- you don't need to clear a path, you just swing, if your opponent kills your 3/3, you play another 3/3 and you pass with land untapped. Merfolk, on the other hand, need to tap out for multiple two or three drops to even start to compete with zoo's one-drops. They *need* free early counters to get them to an eventual game state in which their lords steal the momentum. Zoo doesn't give a fuck. It has huge one-drops. It gets face tattoos and smokes cigarettes in front of its parents. Fuck you.

Anyway.

If think I were to play one of the new pain spells to gain additional tempo, I would play Gut Shot.

[kabards]

im just thinking of how to dodge a Landstill with mainboard humility which was very annoying.. a gaddock would do..
can someone suggest Gaddock over True Believer?

[Mr. Safety]

Additional thoughts on Mental Misstep:

Magic is sometimes described as a game of questions and answers, and I personally think it's a good way to evaluate and discuss card choices. Every deck needs to both ask and answer questions at different stages of the game. Depending on the matchup and board state, any given card has the potential to do either. For example: a turn one Kird Ape against an opponent's Noble Hierarch feels more like a question; a turn one Kird Ape against an opponent's Goblin Lackey feels more like an answer. It's important not to create a false dichotomy. Even the more answer-ish cards like Path to Exile are also simultaneously asking questions, but for most decks the threat posed by cards like PtE is so abstract that a specific response is unnecessary -- or is automatically built into the deck. Some decks, of course, rate spot removal higher on their threat list, which is why you see Kira, Great Glass-Spinner in merfolk lists. Kira is the best kind of answer because it's also a creature and therefore itself poses The Question: figure out a way to deal with me or you lose. A pretty good question. It's why hate bears are so good.

Zoo is a deck that more often than not wants to be asking the questions during the early turns of a game, and it runs cards that accomplish this. The zoo list is full of redundant, powerful low-curve creatures. its burn suite provides early answers that transition to late-game reach. It also has a few versatile answer cards like Path to Exile.

So let's think about Mental Misstep and how it fits into Zoo. What does MM answer that needs to be answered? Zoo necessarily doesn't care about protecting its creatures beyond making sure they enter the battlefield with enough toughness to swing. Zoo doesn't care about giving permission to an opponent's early plays. Zoo doesn't care about any other decks' one drops, unless it's playing against another zoo deck (I actually think MM would be pretty good in the mirror to break parity and gain a tempo advantage). Zoo just doesn't give a fuck.

How can zoo can afford to be so punk rock?

Zoo plays 3/3's for G. On turn two, a 3/3 for G doesn't need any support. It doesn't need to worry about getting into the red zone -- you don't need to clear a path, you just swing, if your opponent kills your 3/3, you play another 3/3 and you pass with land untapped. Merfolk, on the other hand, need to tap out for multiple two or three drops to even start to compete with zoo's one-drops. They *need* free early counters to get them to an eventual game state in which their lords steal the momentum. Zoo doesn't give a fuck. It has huge one-drops. It gets face tattoos and smokes cigarettes in front of its parents. Fuck you.

Anyway.

If think I were to play one of the new pain spells to gain additional tempo, I would play Gut Shot.

You're my new hero, lol. Thank GOD, somone else understands threat density!!! Regarding your MM vs. zoo mirror, I think the obvious choice (if you have a meta full of zoo) is Path to Exile swapping. Your burn still provides early game removal & late game reach, and MM means you can out-tempo them (and be ready for THEIR MM) In a generic metagame, MM is bad. In a zoo heavy metagame? MM might be good. Regardless, would a card that conditional be good in the maindeck? I don't think so. Mindbreak Trap may be better in the combo matchup...but if you expect a ton of zoo with MM to fight combo decks, it might have a small representation because of that. Lots of mind games being played here...bring 4 MM's in case you think you need them at the tourney and work them in according to your need for the combo matchup and how crucial Path to Exile is given the metagame.

[kabards]

how would you handle a counterbalance deck? Krosan Grip and Pithing needle?

[Jonathan Alexander]

These are options, but you also have maindeck Qasali Pridemages and sometimes Green Sun's Zenith to get them when you need them (Zenith easily plays around Counterbalance as well. Postboard you can bring Krosan Grip, Pithing Needle, Red Elemental Blast or whatever else you like. If you want to go a bit outside the box, try out Thrun, The Last Troll. He's amazing in a lot of matchups.

[kabards]

my currently build for now is aggro zoo which do not have any GSZ in main deck.. i was lost last sat. here in our country battling with mox sapphire unluckly got lost in 2 Counterbalance deck CounterThopter and UBR Counterbalance with 2 Maindeck Firesprout =(.. i got locked up by counterbalance top combo.. if only i win the matchup either the two of counterbalance deck i will go to top8 playoffs.. i finished 4-2-1
2 losses via counterbalance draw on gwb rock.

[chags]

Can you link your aggro build? My bud has been running something akin to the cat sligh zoo lists and really likes it, although if the meta slows down he mentioned probably switching back to GSZ zoo.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Can you link your aggro build? My bud has been running something akin to the cat sligh zoo lists and really likes it, although if the meta slows down he mentioned probably switching back to GSZ zoo.

Here's what I'm currently playing. GSZ Zoo doesn't fit my play style. This list runs well in a combo-heavy meta.

21 Land
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Arid Mesa
3 Plateau
2 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Karakas
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains

23 Creatures
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Grim Lavamancer
2 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Kird Ape

16 Spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Sylvan Library
2 Fireblast

15 Sideboard
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Choke
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Krosan Grip
2 Serenity
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

/doublepost

[menace13]

This list runs well in a combo-heavy meta.

Zoo......


Lol. By runs well you mean loses easily.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Lol. By runs well you mean loses easily.

I'll rephrase.

"It does a better job of 'racing' combo than turn 1 Noble Hierarch, go."

[menace13]

I'll rephrase.

"It does a better job of 'racing' combo than turn 1 Noble Hierarch, go."
Heh, I know what you meant, was just being a troll. I would think GSZ->Teeg would fare better though?

[warallthetimne]

This is what I have pretty much settled on for the GP, let me know what you guys think. I'll post my decklist first let everyone comment before explaining card choices. So here it is:

"Silver Bullet" Zoo

21 Land
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
2 Plateau
3 Taiga
2 Savannah
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains

21 Creatures
3 Steppe Lynx
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Grim Lavamancer
3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Vexing Shusher

18 Spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Sylvan Library
2 Price of Progress
2 Green Sun Zenith

15 Sideboard
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Krosan Grip
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Pyroblast
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Thrunn the Last Troll
1 Bojuka Bog

Let me know what you guys think. Any ideas or constructive criticism would be appreciated and like i said I'll give card choice explanations as the comments come in.

[jandax]

If you cut Steppe Lynx, you won't have to run as many fetches to support it,thus making room for Wasteland. Such a deck can support the card, if you have access to them, run three

[warallthetimne]

The deck needs the fetches even without lynx. Ive debated a one of wasteland mainboard for pain in the ass lands. the deck just is very color intensive, i cant see running more than two at the maximum of wastelands.

[chags]

Wastelands in zoo seems a bit sketchy, the deck is so color hungry and already prone to being wastelanded I can't see how adding colorless mana that you have to sac would help. I've also never seen a zoo player not want to use all or most of their mana each turn.

Disclaimer: I don't play zoo this is just an observation, I'd be very interested to hear from the player perspective about the benefits of hurting your manabase for wasteland.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Heh, I know what you meant, was just being a troll. I would think GSZ->Teeg would fare better though?

I've tried both lists and have had much more luck with swinging for 5 with Lynx on turn 2 and having some combination of bolt, bolt, blast.

[jandax]

Okay, so if Wastelands were viewed as colorless non-basic LD, would that change the argument?

[nLee]

Wastelands in zoo seems a bit sketchy, the deck is so color hungry and already prone to being wastelanded I can't see how adding colorless mana that you have to sac would help. I've also never seen a zoo player not want to use all or most of their mana each turn.

Disclaimer: I don't play zoo this is just an observation, I'd be very interested to hear from the player perspective about the benefits of hurting your manabase for wasteland.

As a preface, I run two copies of wasteland with 21 lands total in a more traditional zoo build (i.e. no terravore/gsz).

I agree that the deck is rather color hungry. However, I feel like having access to disruption is important, even at a cost to the manabase.

Having two feels like a solid number. If I show them a wasteland game one, then they have to spend the rest of the match playing around it regardless of whether or not I actually end up drawing any copies for the remainder of the game. The threat of wasteland is almost as good as actually having it and two lets me not completely wreck the manabase.

Also, sometimes I can get lucky and can punish an opponent's greedy keep/fetch game two when I didn't draw wastelands game one.

Pushing it farther than two copies is probably too detrimental to the manabase. There are definitely some games where I can particularly feel the strain, especially against lists that happen to be running their own wastelands and aren't actually affected by it themselves.

Alternatively, viewing wastelands as 0cc land destruction seems alright, but then I'd start looking at my 22+ lands and be thinking that maybe that's a little sketchy. With that much land it feels like threat density is being sacrificed and that's not something I'd be comfortable with.

In a big zoo list though, I probably wouldn't run wastelands at all. That deck feels even more mana hungry and the increased curve makes me not want to be trading away my land drops for theirs.

[Jonathan Alexander]

I haven't tried Wasteland in traditional Zoo yet (mainly because I'm rarely playing it) but in Big Zoo it's pretty much amazing. I'm running four and it's really cool to pull some tempo plays with them. So far I've only played one deck where setting the opponent back one turn was stronger than in this deck, but that deck is still in development.
Zoo has the strongest one-drops in the format and dropping a threat turn one followed by Wasteland on turn two is really strong. Especially combined with Noble Hierarch is really strong, you get to slow down your opponent and to speed up yourself.
Also, the ability to completely take your opponent out of the game with Wastelands is very strong. Multiple Wastelands easily win against most decks out there, even if you only draw them from turn three or four on it can often result in a free win.
Nonetheless, two seem like a good number for traditional Zoo, I think I'm going to try that out. The ability to run both Steppe Lynx and Wasteland is really strong, even at the expense of Noble Hierarch.

[kabards]

does anyone tried Beast Within mainboard on Aggro Zoo?

[Tacosnape]

Beast Within is meh. Even with the ability to make a 3/3 guy in a topdeck war and even with the ability to hit an opponent's Maze in a pinch, the fact of the matter is this. Beast Within is always versatile, but never really amazing.

I've been running Oblivion Ring in the sideboard of Zoo for quite some time. Specifically, ever since I realized almost every card I hate seeing with Zoo could be solved by Oblivion Ring. I don't think Beast Within is qualified to replace it.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Beast Within is meh. Even with the ability to make a 3/3 guy in a topdeck war and even with the ability to hit an opponent's Maze in a pinch, the fact of the matter is this. Beast Within is always versatile, but never really amazing.

I've been running Oblivion Ring in the sideboard of Zoo for quite some time. Specifically, ever since I realized almost every card I hate seeing with Zoo could be solved by Oblivion Ring. I don't think Beast Within is qualified to replace it.

What's your current sideboard look like?

[Thrun, the Last Troll]

Hey everyone this will be my first post, but I’ve been checking out the source for a few months now. I’ve had zoo built up for a few years now, as well as a few other decks. There hasn’t been much local legacy support in my immediate area (there is plenty of tourneys within 5 hrs. driving distance though) here in northwestern Pennsylvania until recently so I don’t have too much experience with the deck despite having it together for quite some time now. I also have dredge and teps in my arsenal but prefer bashing with little men and burning the opposition out. I’ve been ridiculed for playing zoo while I could be playing a “better” deck but just love the efficiency of the beaters and burn/removal package. I see so many different versions of the list though varying from sligh, zoo and big zoo. I’m still not too sure why people play big zoo as to me it seems like a bad version of bant or junk? So I’ve been trying a more traditional build of zoo as my local store has started running legacy events(EPIC)! Here’s the list I battled with the first week:

24 Creatures:
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kird Ape
2 Loam Lion
3 Grim Lavamancer
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Quasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Knight of the Reliquary

14 Removal/Burn
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Lightning Helix
3 Path to Exile

1 Enchantment
1 Sylvan Library

21 Land
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
4 Arid Mesa
2 Taiga
3 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains

SB
1 Path to Exile
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Ethersworn Cannonist
2 Ranger of Eos
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Krosan Grip

I didn't take notes so i don't remember everything but round one i played High Tide and quickly won game one. I boarded in Teegs and Cannonists and played one on turn to in both games 2 and 3 only to have them bounced and i got the enjoyment of watching my dear opponent play with his deck for ten to fifteen minutes each time he ran his combo on me. Round 2 i played Junk and won game one very quickly. Game 2 i was blown out by wastelands, vindicates and very large men. We had a pretty epic game 3, which included a Stoneforge showdown but in the end his Maze of Ith left me 0-2. I promptly dropped.

My meta consists of High Tide, Junk, Goblins, Merfolk, Dream Halls, Lands, affinity, Turbo Poison and a few random others. I'm thinking of sleeving up something like this for the next event, which is i believe on may 21st.

24 Creatures:
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kird Ape
2 Loam Lion
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Quasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Knight of the Reliquary

14 Removal/Burn
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Lightning Helix
3 Path to Exile
1 Fireblast (This card seems amazing however it seems i don't want to draw a second one as good as it is)

1 Enchantment
1 Sylvan Library(Same thing with Fireblast it seems i wouldn't want to draw a second one unless the first is destroyed)

21 Land (This mana base seems so good and i don't understand why people dumb it down with other land?)
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
4 Arid Mesa
2 Taiga
3 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains

SB
4 Ethersworn Cannonist
2 Gaddock Teeg
4 Price of Progress
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Mindbreak Trap
2 Phyrexian Revoker

The main deck hasn't changed but the board has seen a significant change. It seems i lose some percentage vs the aggro matchs with the loss of the Stoneforge package. They seems terrible vs Junk as i was just going with his plan and dragging out the game til i was out advantaged so i figured i would go balls to the wall and punish junk and lands greedy mana base with the POP. I'm not too sure how to fight combo as the just bounce my guys, so i have the 1 ofs so they to try and make it hard for them to play around my hate. The revokers seem awesome vs random decks. But like i said i am fairly new to this format, but zoo seems like the deck i really want to play and am just having a hard time trying to figure out the correct build for my meta. It would be awesome to have some help from some more seasoned vets of the deck. Please don't flame me too bad as i am new and will always post results and am really looking forward to discussing/playing this archtype :)

[Tacosnape]

What's your current sideboard look like?

I don't actually have a current sideboard, as I'd shelved Zoo for a few months due to the combo explosion. I'm contemplating picking it back up now.

In Zoo, I think for me personally, if I were to start playing it again, my list would look like this:

4 Wooded Foothills
3 Arid Mesa
3 Windswept Heath
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
2 Savannah
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Wasteland

4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Gaddock Teeg

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mental Misstep
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Helix
2 Sylvan Library

SB:
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Oblivion Ring
2 Null Rod
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Red Elemental Blast

[lordofthepit]

In a big zoo list though, I probably wouldn't run wastelands at all. That deck feels even more mana hungry and the increased curve makes me not want to be trading away my land drops for theirs.

Wasteland is a better play in Big Zoo than normal Zoo for the following reasons:
1) Noble Hierarch gives you a tempo boost relative to your opponent, and allows you to play with more mana sources (usually 20 colored land sources + 4 Hierarchs + 2 Wastelands versus 18-20 colored land sources + 2 Wastelands), which makes the one-for-one trade with Wasteland more favorable.
2) Big Zoo tends to run more Knight of the Reliquary, and because of Noble Hierarch and the increased mana sources, it can drop KotR faster, which gives it increased synergy with Wasteland.
3) Big Zoo backloads its damage more than normal Zoo; that is, it doesn't deal damage nearly as quickly in the early game, but can often put out a lot of fatties by turns 3 or 4. Being able to "Time Walk" the opponent with Wasteland means more in the latter case than the former.

[lordofthepit]

I've been running Oblivion Ring in the sideboard of Zoo for quite some time. Specifically, ever since I realized almost every card I hate seeing with Zoo could be solved by Oblivion Ring. I don't think Beast Within is qualified to replace it.

What matchups do you bring in O-Ring against, and what do you side out for it?

I really like Oblivion Ring's versatility, but I tend to prefer raw hate power over versatility in my sideboard card, and I feel O-Ring is a bit lacking with respect to the former (except against Show and Tell -> Emrakul). Still, if it's good enough in enough matchups, I'll have to make some space in my SB.

[kabards]

does anyone tried to put a piece of thrun in main deck? im just figuring out if it is good enough vs CB Deck unless they already played a humility =(

[Arsenal]

So I stumbled across a Fast Zoo deck that I'm in love with.... but it looks like opposing Mental Missteps will just wreck this deck. http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6101&iddeck=44249

Post-NPH, will Fast Zoo still be a deck worth playing?

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

So I stumbled across a Fast Zoo deck that I'm in love with.... but it looks like opposing Mental Missteps will just wreck this deck. http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6101&iddeck=44249

Post-NPH, will Fast Zoo still be a deck worth playing?

I'll be playing it. So yes.

[Tacosnape]

What matchups do you bring in O-Ring against, and what do you side out for it?

I really like Oblivion Ring's versatility, but I tend to prefer raw hate power over versatility in my sideboard card, and I feel O-Ring is a bit lacking with respect to the former (except against Show and Tell -> Emrakul). Still, if it's good enough in enough matchups, I'll have to make some space in my SB.

I board it in against anything packing significant amounts (Or a few significantly crippling) artifacts or enchantments (Ring makes Chalice Aggro matches SO much more smooth), anything with multiple large creatures, anytime I see Emrakuls, or any time I think it's flat out better than Path, Bolt, or Helix.

Against Junk, for example, I'll run it in place of burn spells. Oblivion Ring solves Goyf and Knight better, and is capable of hitting a Pernicious Deed they just dropped. Granted, Ring can get Vindicated, but chances are it won't. You run more scary creatures than they do, and every Vindicate aimed at your removal is one not aimed at your equally frightening creature base.

The thing about Oblivion Ring in the board to remember is this. Don't worry about it getting destroyed. It just doesn't happen hardly ever. And if you're taking out a blocker with it, even if it does get destroyed, chances are you got a full swing through in the process.

Another thing? Oblivion Ring's versatility is its best quality. It's never an "Oops, I win" card on its own, but it improves a lot of other tricky matches by just enough.


does anyone tried to put a piece of thrun in main deck? im just figuring out if it is good enough vs CB Deck unless they already played a humility =(

Thrun isn't as good as other options here, if you're going to go so far as to run a 4-drop. I'd much rather stick an Elspeth (or even an Ajani Vengeant) in most cases.

[AlexAI]

For what it's worth, I've been testing Cat Sligh/Disruption Zoo lists against TA/Neo-Landstill and found out Sulfuric Vortex is pretty sweet against them. You run out all your weenies/burn, and then after they think they've stabilized at 8-10 life or so, BAM, repeatable damage that can't be MM/STP/Snared. Vortex wasn't terrible before MM as well.

The SCG Neo-landstill lists seem to be a decent matchup for the lists I've ran though tests. Team America is still not fun but winnable.

[jandax]

I can second this. Sulfuric Vortex in fast zoo is nut high. The deck needs consistent non-combat win-cons, Vortex fills this role well.

[Richard Cheese]

With Merfolk gaining popularity again, isn't Volcanic Fallout one of the better SB options?

[AlexAI]

I think Jitte serves the same purpose without blowing up our lynx, guides, pridemages, revokers and/or lavamen. It also can just randomly foil the merfolk player's Jitte out of the board.

That said, even with MM, merfolk hasn't gotten hard enough to the point where I am worrying. The splash damage from most people's boards(REB effects, Jitte, etc) should be enough against them without boarding anything specific.

[AznSeal]

how would stoneforge mystic work in zoo as a possible late game option? Maybe as a 2of?

This post is lacking. Please see our site rules here:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?7455-Site-Rules-for-MTS

Especially that part about writing. - Bardo

[cdr]

how would stoneforge mystic work in zoo as a possible late game option? Maybe as a 2of?

Already been done: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=37566

[jandax]

Over the last six months, how many of you (us) Zoo players have been feeling about SB graveyard hate?

Personally, I'm scared to run anything less than three slots, Crypts or what have you. I'm curious to see how people build their sideboards for this particular deck.

[kabards]

a player named Rafael Garcia placed top8 in Bazaar of Moxen 5 a few days ago.
@ jandax
in my Zoo Deck i don't have any GY Hate in my list

[SpikeyMikey]

My sideboard is:

4 Gaddock Teeg
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
1 Bojuka Bog

So I'm packing 4 GY hate. But I've got a main deck that's pretty versatile and has pretty good game against anything aggro, control or aggro control. So I can afford to pack a lot of board for off the wall stuff.

Right now, I'm experimenting with Zoo again after a solid 6 years or so off. I've been running Bant aggro for the last 6 months, but it's not the strongest against TA now with Mental Misstep out there. They've gotten too good at shutting down my mana between Waste, Stifle and MM on Hierarch/GSZ->Arbor. I played half a dozen matches on Workstation yesterday and this morning, which isn't exactly quality testing, but I felt fairly confident about the deck. I think my build could use a little tweaking (but it's less than 24 hours old, so that's no shocker), but we'll see where after a few more days of playing with it. I wish I had the money to put this together for the SCG in Indy coming up, but I'll still be playing the Bant aggro there and just hoping to dodge early Missteps.

[kabards]

here's my Sideboard :

3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Krosan Grip
2 Pithing Needle
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Pyroblast
1 Price of Progress

[trivial_matters]

here's my Sideboard :

3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Krosan Grip
2 Pithing Needle
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Pyroblast
1 Price of Progress

Why are you playing Enlightened Tutor? Doesn't seem worth it for the two Pithing Needles. If you're set on using Enlightened Tutor, there are a bunch of other good fetchable cards you should be playing.

[SpikeyMikey]

Why are you playing Enlightened Tutor? Doesn't seem worth it for the two Pithing Needles. If you're set on using Enlightened Tutor, there are a bunch of other good fetchable cards you should be playing.

What E. Tutor? He's playing Ethersworn Cannonist, if that's what you're talking about...

[trivial_matters]

What E. Tutor? He's playing Ethersworn Cannonist, if that's what you're talking about...

Wow, I somehow mistook Cannonist for Enlightened Tutor. Must be because they both start with e... >_>

To contribute something useful: You should post your list, even if it's not completely finished. I'm interested in why there are no Qasali Pridemages main. Also, maybe you could explain the four Teegs and Surgical Extraction.

[lordofthepit]

Over the last six months, how many of you (us) Zoo players have been feeling about SB graveyard hate?

Personally, I'm scared to run anything less than three slots, Crypts or what have you. I'm curious to see how people build their sideboards for this particular deck.

I've been running 3-4 Faerie Macabre and sometimes a Bojuka Bog. The Macabres are great against Reanimator, which were extremely popular for a while. It also does double duty against ANT (but not good against TES), because sometimes you blow them out when they were counting on IGG or Cabal Ritual; it's not the greatest, but I don't devote a whole lot of slots to storm combo right now.

Kind of sucks against other graveyard decks like Dredge, but I don't get paired against Dredge as often as I do the other decks.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Lately my sideboard has been mostly dedicated to the combo match up. I've upped to 4 Tormod's Crypt and have a variation of hate for storm/show and tell/blue-based control decks.

[SpikeyMikey]

Lately my sideboard has been mostly dedicated to the combo match up. I've upped to 4 Tormod's Crypt and have a variation of hate for storm/show and tell/blue-based control decks.

You're much better off with a split of some sort rather than 4x anything. Having played Dredge online, you make my job much easier when I know exactly what to Needle. If you run 1xCrypt, 1xRelic, 1xNihil and 1xLoaming Shaman/Macabre/Surgical Extraction/whatever (or 2/1/1 or even a 2/2 split on the artifacts) it's much more difficult because one, I can't shut you down with a single Needle and two, a pre-emptive Needle has a 75% chance of naming the wrong thing if I'm not leading into it with Therapy.

[cdr]

I love Wheel of Sun and Moon, personally. Can't cast it till turn 2, but it just plain shuts down a lot of decks if it hits.

[Richard Cheese]

Two questions from someone that is really liking playing Zoo, but doesn't have that much real experience with the archetype:

1. Amidst all the hype about Misstep, how much does Zoo really need to worry about it. From what I can tell it was pretty quickly dismissed just because of the quality and number of 1-drops in the deck. Has anyone done enough testing to confirm that this is the case and there's no need to try and reduce the number of 1 cmc cards?

2. Has anyone messed around with an E. Tutor-based board? 4 E. Tutors in the board would let you run a greater variety of hate, and gives access to all kinds of fun stuff like Canonist, Revoker, Dueling Grounds, Ground Seal, Wheel of Sun & Moon, Null Rod, Jitte, and so on.

[jandax]

Two questions from someone that is really liking playing Zoo, but doesn't have that much real experience with the archetype:

1. Amidst all the hype about Misstep, how much does Zoo really need to worry about it. From what I can tell it was pretty quickly dismissed just because of the quality and number of 1-drops in the deck. Has anyone done enough testing to confirm that this is the case and there's no need to try and reduce the number of 1 cmc cards?

2. Has anyone messed around with an E. Tutor-based board? 4 E. Tutors in the board would let you run a greater variety of hate, and gives access to all kinds of fun stuff like Canonist, Revoker, Dueling Grounds, Ground Seal, Wheel of Sun & Moon, Null Rod, Jitte, and so on.

1. If you're playing fast Zoo, you trade a card for two of their life. You're still semi-on track with that result. What you need to be worried about is a Chalice on one. A Mental Misstep doesn't cause worry, it is a card to sometimes play around.

2. Somewhere in this thread and in others people have run a lot of different packages (SFM, GSZ, En. Tutor). If having this package answers specific things you run up against in your area, then it's a metagame choice one has to make.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

You're much better off with a split of some sort rather than 4x anything. Having played Dredge online, you make my job much easier when I know exactly what to Needle. If you run 1xCrypt, 1xRelic, 1xNihil and 1xLoaming Shaman/Macabre/Surgical Extraction/whatever (or 2/1/1 or even a 2/2 split on the artifacts) it's much more difficult because one, I can't shut you down with a single Needle and two, a pre-emptive Needle has a 75% chance of naming the wrong thing if I'm not leading into it with Therapy.

I'm trying to throw together a sb with splash hate for:

Dredge
GW Natural Order
Sneaky Show
Burn
Thresh
Eva Depths
Tribal
High Tide
Dragon Stompy
Faerie Stompy
Affinity
MUD

So far it's not working too well. Help :)?

[AznSeal]

Already been done: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=37566

Oh nice.

Now would you recommend the version with steppe lynx or the version with kird apes/loam lion?

[kabards]

I'm trying to throw together a sb with splash hate for:

Dredge
GW Natural Order
Sneaky Show
Burn
Thresh
Eva Depths
Tribal
High Tide
Dragon Stompy
Faerie Stompy
Affinity
MUD

So far it's not working too well. Help :)?

for my experience playing zoo just put sideboard that you really have the smallest percentage of winning, for zoo it is difficult to win first game to combo decks and cb decks as my experience playing against this deck..

[SpikeyMikey]

I'm trying to throw together a sb with splash hate for:

Dredge
GW Natural Order
Sneaky Show
Burn
Thresh
Eva Depths
Tribal
High Tide
Dragon Stompy
Faerie Stompy
Affinity
MUD

So far it's not working too well. Help :)?

This is the field at your LGS? And you're running a creature heavy Cat Sligh? That seems like a really unfriendly environment; you're facing off against decks that are dropping big creatures early. Seems like a much better field to be playing something like Thopters in.

I think the Serenity's you have the in the board are a good start. But You need to get sneaky if you want to beat that field. I would say 4xHonorable Passage is a given. It's very good against Burn and Goblins, but it's also a beating against RPD's out of DStompy and it'll turn Progenitus into a suicide bomb. Ensnaring Bridge is a good call against MUD, Affinity and Sneak 'n' Show. You can burn them out with 10 burn and PoP while you hide behind Bridge.

So perhaps:

4 Honorable Passage
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Price of Progress
2 Serenity
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Nihil Spellbomb


You're dead in board to High Tide, but you can try to race that. Cannonist is the only thing you could board in that would possibly hurt them; that or Thorn/Glowrider, but Cannonist doesn't have any other applications. Sphere effects would, but they'd also interfere with your burn spells, slowing down your kill. It would stop Dread Return out of Dredge (and Breakthrough or a number of other draw effects). Since Dredge and High Tide are both combo kills, you can't afford to slow yourself down as much or more than you're slowing them down. 3 yard hate spells is 1 less than you really want, but also keep in mind that G2 they're planning on playing around you mulling for a yard hate spell. So don't. They'll keep a slower more defensive hand g2 with Ancient Grudge or Pithing Needle, not necessarily a hand that can go ape shit right away. As long as you have a quick clock, you can often surprise them G2 and then mull for the yard hate G3. Keep them guessing.

Another option would be to put an extra KotR in board and go to 10 fetches main so you can fit a Wasteland. Wasteland is a good option to have against Depths or decks using Sol lands. But off the top of my head, I like the Passage board. It's tech from the original RGW Zoo deck half a dozen years ago, and there's nothing like old forgotten tech to really twist the knife.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

This is the field at your LGS? And you're running a creature heavy Cat Sligh? That seems like a really unfriendly environment; you're facing off against decks that are dropping big creatures early. Seems like a much better field to be playing something like Thopters in.

I think the Serenity's you have the in the board are a good start. But You need to get sneaky if you want to beat that field. I would say 4xHonorable Passage is a given. It's very good against Burn and Goblins, but it's also a beating against RPD's out of DStompy and it'll turn Progenitus into a suicide bomb. Ensnaring Bridge is a good call against MUD, Affinity and Sneak 'n' Show. You can burn them out with 10 burn and PoP while you hide behind Bridge.

So perhaps:

4 Honorable Passage
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Price of Progress
2 Serenity
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Nihil Spellbomb


You're dead in board to High Tide, but you can try to race that. Cannonist is the only thing you could board in that would possibly hurt them; that or Thorn/Glowrider, but Cannonist doesn't have any other applications. Sphere effects would, but they'd also interfere with your burn spells, slowing down your kill. It would stop Dread Return out of Dredge (and Breakthrough or a number of other draw effects). Since Dredge and High Tide are both combo kills, you can't afford to slow yourself down as much or more than you're slowing them down. 3 yard hate spells is 1 less than you really want, but also keep in mind that G2 they're planning on playing around you mulling for a yard hate spell. So don't. They'll keep a slower more defensive hand g2 with Ancient Grudge or Pithing Needle, not necessarily a hand that can go ape shit right away. As long as you have a quick clock, you can often surprise them G2 and then mull for the yard hate G3. Keep them guessing.

Another option would be to put an extra KotR in board and go to 10 fetches main so you can fit a Wasteland. Wasteland is a good option to have against Depths or decks using Sol lands. But off the top of my head, I like the Passage board. It's tech from the original RGW Zoo deck half a dozen years ago, and there's nothing like old forgotten tech to really twist the knife.

That is the field at my LGS. I normally play TES, Reanimator or Painted Stone. Zoo's my other deck.

I'll most definitely give this board a shot. It seems very interesting. As for Ensnaring Bridge, wouldn't Orim's Chant be better to slow them down? I'm probably dead before I can drop bridge on turn 3 anyway.

[AznSeal]

4 Wild Nacatl
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
2 Knight of the Reliquary

4 Path to Exile
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

2 Plateau
2 Taiga
1 Savannah
4 Arid Mesa
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Scrubland
Sideboard:
2 Krosan Grip
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Duress
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Ravenous Trap
3 Engineered Plague
1 Sword of Feast and Famine

Any changes to MD, SB, or Mana base?

[trivial_matters]

IMO, splashing black for Dark Confidant is not worth it. Your decks rolls over and dies to Stifle and Wasteland. The black sideboard cards aren't really necessary either.

[SpikeyMikey]

IMO, splashing black for Dark Confidant is not worth it. Your decks rolls over and dies to Stifle and Wasteland. The black sideboard cards aren't really necessary either.

Yeah, 20 lands and 4 colors makes baby Jeebus cry. I'd run Basilisk Collar main over SoFI with the SFM package. Not only does Collar let you win goyf wars, if you've got a Lavamancer out, it becomes Visara the Dreadful.

[Julian23]

One should mention that SoFI lets you win Goyf wars as well. Just for the sake of complete information.

[SpikeyMikey]

One should mention that SoFI lets you win Goyf wars as well. Just for the sake of complete information.

True. It's mostly because it's a beast with 'mancer.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

True. It's mostly because it's a beast with 'mancer.

And shooting down Emrakuls is just that cool.

[AznSeal]

Ok, so drop the black splash? What should I play instead of BoB? More burn?

[Ziveeman]

Just wanna say congrats to Rafael Garcia, who placed 6th out of 633 (!) players with Big Zoo:

Business (40)
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Terravore
3 Green Sun’s Zenith
2 Elspeth, Knight Errant
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
2 Sylvan Library

Lands (21)
1 Karakas
2 Horizon Canopy
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
4 Arid Mesa
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Null Rod
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Choke
2 Krosan Grip

Any thoughts on the list? With the impact of Mental Misstep, is overloading on 1 drops the better choice or minimizing on 1 drops better? I'm more inclined to say that Big Zoo is slightly better now but who knows.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Just wanna say congrats to Rafael Garcia, who placed 6th out of 633 (!) players with Big Zoo:

Business (40)
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Terravore
3 Green Sun’s Zenith
2 Elspeth, Knight Errant
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
2 Sylvan Library

Lands (21)
1 Karakas
2 Horizon Canopy
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
4 Arid Mesa
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Null Rod
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Choke
2 Krosan Grip

Any thoughts on the list? With the impact of Mental Misstep, is overloading on 1 drops the better choice or minimizing on 1 drops better? I'm more inclined to say that Big Zoo is slightly better now but who knows.

I prefer overloading with 1 drops. I was playing against Merfolk and the player MM'd my turn 1 Steppe Lynx. I dropped Wild Nacatl and Grim Lavamancer on turn 2.

[kabards]

i think the merfolk would stumble down on his seat when he see grim lavamancer resolved in play =)

[AlexAI]

I played Cat Sligh with 3 Mental Misstep maindecked last night at our local store, so I figured I'd post some thoughts here since the list can play similar to faster Zoo lists.


On MM, I drew it three times in the 14 games I played. I topdecked it against UGr Lavamancer/Trinket Mage tempo when I had the game in the bag pretty much already, so that didn't say much either way. Had one in an opener against Belcher where she just went Grant into SSG into Desperate Ritual, into Belcher things. Had one in an opener against The Gate, and used it on his T1 Duress, only for it to get misstepped back.

I played against Dredge and Aggro Loam on the night as well, so I wouldn't have minded seeing one in 3 1/2(bad against belcher sometimes) out of the 5 matchups. I would say the experiment is inconclusive at this moment, leaning a little towards running 0 over 2-3, but I will try 3 again next time I run this/Fast Zoo out. The only suggestion I would offer right now is not to run 4, because you still have to draw guys and burn and stuff. It's not a card that is magically going to swing unfavorable matchups to our end, or make us immune to Plow/Bolt/Path.


Against the tempo deck with MM, it slowed me down a little but wasn't a back breaker. I just overload them with one drops. They can't counter all of them. I can drop a goyf at any moment, too.

Sulfuric Vortex is still gold. It drew immediate attention from the slower midrange decks I played against, and won the times where it was unanswered.


Bonus random thought:

In a meta like the last SCG where Merfolk/TA/other blue things are rampant at the moment because of Misstep, would it be wise to give Belcher a little more respect in the sideboard in the form of an efficient way to deal with ETW, etc? More Mindbreak Traps? Maybe a Ratchet Bomb/Powder Keg in an Enlightened Tutor package? The thought would be some people would put down TES/ANT until a new list is conceived to fight heavy counter decks, or until the metagame shifts. Belcher, on the other hand, can go from 0-2 mana without too much trouble. But then you would be playing Belcher against loads of blue still. Meh.

[SpikeyMikey]

I prefer overloading with 1 drops. I was playing against Merfolk and the player MM'd my turn 1 Steppe Lynx. I dropped Wild Nacatl and Grim Lavamancer on turn 2.

This. MM is the new toy on the block right now and people want to use it every chance they can. Although some people will never grow up from countering everything they can counter, the same way some people will always immediately use a wasteland that they draw regardless of game state.

The Zoo listing I'm running is relatively light on 1-drops but it preys on the absence of counterbalance and Krosan Grip (I'm serious, the card went from being ubiquitous in green decks to hardly seeing any play) with a mid-Zoo strategy. Combo isn't particularly prevalent right now, so I'm running a listing with more mid-game card advantage

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Grim Lavamancer
2 Figure of Destiny

3 Tarmogoyf
2 Stoneforge Mystic

4 Knight of the Reliquary

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Fire/Ice

3 Isochron Scepter
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Windswept Heath
2 Arid Mesa
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Plateau
3 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Volcanic Island
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Wasteland


I was just running 20 lands, but that 21st land goes a long way. I miss the 4th goyf though. Goyf is always a good threat.

[Charlatan]

The Zoo listing I'm running is...

Sorry, but this isn't zoo.

[OurSerratedDust]

Just wanna say congrats to Rafael Garcia, who placed 6th out of 633 (!) players with Big Zoo:

Business (40)
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Terravore
3 Green Sun’s Zenith
2 Elspeth, Knight Errant
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
2 Sylvan Library

Lands (21)
1 Karakas
2 Horizon Canopy
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
4 Arid Mesa
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Null Rod
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Choke
2 Krosan Grip

Any thoughts on the list? With the impact of Mental Misstep, is overloading on 1 drops the better choice or minimizing on 1 drops better? I'm more inclined to say that Big Zoo is slightly better now but who knows.

Interesting list. I'm new to zoo, so I have a couple questions:

This list has 61 cards. What is likely the weakest card?

Only 3 Tarmogoyf seems sub-optimal but is it really?

How good is Noble Hierarch in zoo?

Thanks guys. I was thinking that maybe one Knight should be cut for the 4th goyf, but I was never really sure.

[DTC]

Noble Hierarch seems like it would be okay for the exalt trigger and for ramp if you're playing big zoo, but overall seems a bit underwhelming since you want your first turn threats to be nacatls, apes, lions that you can start swinging with by turn 2.

3 Goyf really is sub optimal. The lowest zoo should run is 4, there's simply no more efficient two drop to play. Some decks that have more lavamancers might cut a goyf due to synergy, but goyf is a bigger threat against more decks.

[Jim Higginbottom]

when you're playing hierarch and gsz only running 3 goyfs is perfectly fine.

[Capt4in]

Anyone see David Price's list from the SCG Louisville Open Top 16?

http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=38404

Interesting sideboard...does he just scoop it up to combo, dredge, etc, and hope to play against blue decks all day, or is there something I'm missing?

Also, how do you guys feel about replacing Krosan Grip with Thrun in the sideboard? I feel like Counterbalance is rapidly losing ground in favor of Landstill, and Thrun is effective against both strategies while Grip only hits Countertop.

[Koby]

Sorry, but this isn't zoo.

You sir, are mistaken.

From the opening post:
"R/G/W Zoo is just like it sounds, it is a savagely fast aggro deck that takes advantage of the most efficient and cost effective red/green/white spells in the game."

SpikeyMikey's list screams efficient beaters with reach. The only odd thing about it is running Fire/Ice and single Volcanic Island to cast Ice. Tapping Tarmgoyf seems better than Plowing it.

THINK BEFORE YOU POST!

@ SpikeyMikey - I like your list, but I'm not sold on Basilisk Collar. I think a 2nd Jitte or SoFI might work better - or something that grants trample. Collar is too cute with Grim Lavamancer, but often times Lavamancer is more than sufficient to clear the path for your 1drop beaters.

I do dig the Figures of Destiny tho. It's always fun to bring back old cards.

[CorpT]

Anyone see David Price's list from the SCG Louisville Open Top 16?

http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=38404

Interesting sideboard...does he just scoop it up to combo, dredge, etc, and hope to play against blue decks all day, or is there something I'm missing?

Who would be playing combo in this environment? Literally every single deck in the top 8 played 4x Force of Will, 4x Mental Misstep, 4x Thoughtseize or 4x Hymn to Tourach. All played at least 2 of those and some played all 4 of those.

[trivial_matters]

So there's a tournament next week and I thought I'd bring the following:

//Lands
3 Plateau
2 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Forest
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
2 Windswept Heath
2 Wasteland

//Creatures
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Knight of the Reliquary

//Instants
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Price of Progress

//Sorceries
2 Green Sun's Zenith

//Enchantments
1 Sylvan Library

//Sideboard
1 Karakas
2 Ethersworn Cannonist
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Krosan Grip
3 Choke
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus

This time round, I want to play a more traditional Zoo build. The metagame is varied. I'd say it's a bit skewed towards combo and control with not so much tribal. Sounds difficult for Zoo, but I reckon it's not a bad choice.

Things that I'd specifically appreciate input on are: The number of KotR, GSZ, Sylvan Library main as well the sideboard. The two Jittes are supposed to help against Goblins and Elves if I happen to run into them. I could replace them with something else, but I don't with what.

Sideboarding plans will follow.

[kunta]

Hi guys,
I'll show you my recent experiment in big zoo.
I'm from Italy so the meta it's a bit different, but also there the most played Tier1 are TA, GW Maverik, Landstill and Merfolk.
So, 'cause I think that the level of the players is grow up in the last 2 years, I think that to overtake a tournament you had to be a pro player or to bring some innovation in a solid deck.
So I started to test this list:

4 wild nacatl
3 noble hierarch
3 grim lavamancer
4 tarmogoyf
3 qasali pridemage
4 knight of the reliquary
1 rafiq of the many

4 swords to plowshares
4 lightning bolt
3 lightning helix
3 green sun's zenith
2 elspeth, knight errant

1 forest
1 plain
1 karakas
3 taiga
2 plateau
1 savannah
1 volcanic island
4 windswepth heath
4 wooded foothills
2 wasteland
1 horizon canopy

SB:
3 choke
3 krosan grip
3 ethersworn canonist
2 gaddock teeg
1 bajuga bog
2 faerie macabre
1 path to exile

So, I feel really well with rafiq, 'cause it give me a second hard closure insted of elspeth. It's not hard to cast due to the mono volcanic island and to noble hierach and it's not so hardly fetching with green sun's zenith.
So what do you think about it?

Tx

[OurSerratedDust]

Hi guys,
I'll show you my recent experiment in big zoo.
I'm from Italy so the meta it's a bit different, but also there the most played Tier1 are TA, GW Maverik, Landstill and Merfolk.
So, 'cause I think that the level of the players is grow up in the last 2 years, I think that to overtake a tournament you had to be a pro player or to bring some innovation in a solid deck.
So I started to test this list:

4 wild nacatl
3 noble hierarch
3 grim lavamancer
4 tarmogoyf
3 qasali pridemage
4 knight of the reliquary
1 rafiq of the many

4 swords to plowshares
4 lightning bolt
3 lightning helix
3 green sun's zenith
2 elspeth, knight errant

1 forest
1 plain
1 karakas
3 taiga
2 plateau
1 savannah
1 volcanic island
4 windswepth heath
4 wooded foothills
2 wasteland
1 horizon canopy

SB:
3 choke
3 krosan grip
3 ethersworn canonist
2 gaddock teeg
1 bajuga bog
2 faerie macabre
1 path to exile

So, I feel really well with rafiq, 'cause it give me a second hard closure insted of elspeth. It's not hard to cast due to the mono volcanic island and to noble hierach and it's not so hardly fetching with green sun's zenith.
So what do you think about it?

Tx


The list looks pretty good, but when is Rafiq going to be better than another Elspeth? The mana seems like an issue, so I would rather do a Terravore. He has been a really good finisher for me.

[Richard Cheese]

Here is the list I've been working with lately, I just have a few questions for some of the more seasoned players:


4 Tarmogoyf
3 Taiga
3 Savannah
3 Plateau
3 Windswept Heath
4 Arid Mesa
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Path to Exile
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Price of Progress
2 Sylvan Library
2 Fireblast
2 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Grim Lavamancer
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Karakas

SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Volcanic Fallout
SB: 1 Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 4 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Dueling Grounds
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
SB: 1 Pyrostatic Pillar


Obviously the biggest departure is the tutor board, which I could use some advice on. So far in testing it's been pretty good, but I want to make sure I have the right enchantments to cover a large and diverse meta like a SCG open. There are a few cards that I'm a bit unsure about though:

Pyrostatic Pillar: This seems like it could be decent against storm combo/belcher and really bad for Elves, but also affects my entire deck too, not sure if the damage I would take would be enough to make it essentially a break-even card against storm or not.

Wheel of Sun and Moon: I don't know if one slot is really effective against dredge or not, although Teeg can stop Dread Return and Fallout + Dueling Grounds makes short work of Zombies. This seemed like the most effective single spell in our colors.

Volcanic Fallout: I asked about this in regards to Merfolk and was told that it isn't really needed in that matchup, but I feel like it has a lot of utility in other matchups (Elves, Goblins, anything with EtW, Zombie Tokens, etc). If I'm way off base here, let me know.

Thrun: Again I don't know that one of this guy is enough to swing a game against CB or TA, and I don't know if he should be in the SB or the main. My initial thought is that I'd rather have Teeg main to have a better game 1 chance against NO or storm, since the deck doesn't roll over nearly as easily to heavy counters as it does to combo.

Other cards I thought about including in the board inlcude Choke, Serenity, SoFI...any other suggestions are welcome. I'm also thinking of cutting one or both Grips for Vexing Shushers.

As far as the main deck goes, I was considering Terravore, either as a 1-of (-1 KotR) or a 2-of (Teeg/Qasali + KotR). Just not sure how effective he is without Wastes and with Lavamancer chewing through the yard. Elspeth is also something I thought about, but I would want 2 minimum, and I'm not sure what I would cut.

Finally (sorry for this dragging on so long), is there a more current matchup analysis than what's in the first post? Specifically I'm interested in MUC, TA, Junk, Bant and the BUG Team-whatever.

Edit: Completely forgot to mention O-Ring as a possible SB slot, Ensnaring Bridge too, although I think that might be another that hurts as much as it helps.

[trivial_matters]

@ list above: Since you're running 4 KotR and 2 Green Sun's Zenith, I guess an additional land wouldn't hurt. I count 20 as it is. Also, I wouldn't be comfortable with running only 7 one-drops in Zoo. Your call obviously.

[kunta]

The list looks pretty good, but when is Rafiq going to be better than another Elspeth? The mana seems like an issue, so I would rather do a Terravore. He has been a really good finisher for me.

Yep, I was thinking just about that today. It had a lower casting cost and it doesn't need the blue mana...so I could replace the volcanic island with a plateau....maybe I'll use terravore, cause the effect it's the same of rafiq. The only weak point of a list without rafiq is that I had no broken creatures that are not depending from graveyard...and post side this will be a problem if oppont had in SB something like relic of progenits or bajuga bog...terravore will die, kotr will be a simple 2/2 and tarmo is a stupid 0/1...But this is the pleasure of this game!!!

[lordofthepit]

How do you guys feel about the Team America matchup?

I've personally never had a problem with them, but apparently, Zoo on the SCG Open circuit has a <50% matchup against Team America, which I find very surprising. I would imagine that the builds that run only 20 lands and more Steppe Lynxes are more vulnerable to their mana denial package though.

[Jonathan Alexander]

If the Team America knows what they're doing, they're definitely favoured, but not much. Most of the matches in my team's testing sessions went 2-1 for Team America. Most of the cards in that deck are strong against Zoo, and Pernicious Deed can just kill you. The easiest way to win against Team America is to draw multiple Wastelands, they're really strong when coming from Zoo.
Apart from that, the faster your deck is, the better positioned you are against the newer, slow builds.

[Richard Cheese]

This is Jesse Hatfield's list from the GP:


3 Arid Mesa
1 Forest
4 Horizon Canopy
1 Mountain
1 Plains
3 Plateau
1 Savannah
2 Taiga
3 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
23 lands

4 Grim Lavamancer
2 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
22 creatures

4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
3 Sylvan Library
15 other spells

Sideboard
2 Krosan Grip
2 Null Rod
4 Price of Progress
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Swords to Plowshares
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Umezawa's Jitte
15 sideboard cards


Thoughts?

[jandax]

A zoo deck built for a GP. It's consistent and don't afraid of a room full of combo (because it's not 2010 anymore)

[PanderAlexander]

There's also another Cat-Zoo list that actually made Top 8 at the GP by John Kubilis:

Main Deck
60 cards

4 Arid Mesa
1 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
3 Taiga
3 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
22 lands

2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
23 creatures

2 Chain Lightning
1 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
2 Price of Progress
2 Sylvan Library
15 other spells

Sideboard
3 Choke
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Krosan Grip
2 Price of Progress
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Umezawa's Jitte
15 sideboard cards

I think the 3x Choke in the sideboard is really strong in the current meta. Choke + Teeg + Thrun, he meta-gamed well for blue-based control.

[Machahiko]

Seems nice and a lot like Alix Hatfields from ages away with some minor changes, most of them in the sideboard. Jesse's list with no sideboard hate at all for Dredge is kinda bold and the other list doesnt have that much gy hate either. Also, no sb hate for combo.

I actually thought that time of Steppe Lynx is over, but looks like cat zoo did better than big zoo.. anyways, I'm happy that these results should show that zoo is far away from being dead even through a lot of people said that due to Mental Misstep Zoo cannot be played anymore.

Has anyone of you tried mental misstep in your zoo decklists? I tried it out a bit with my friend and.. it didn't feel so amazing in zoo. The only times I lost were due to drawing mental missteps instead of.. anything else.

Also, my metagame is FULL of dredge. How do you prepare for a metagame full of dredge, 3x tormod just doesn't cut it. 4 Tormod, 2 Gaddock and faerie macabre? Any suggestions?

[kiwi]

Wheel of sun and moon is good againts dredge, reanimator,etc... and moreover can be usefull againts painters, we can enchant ourself :).

[jandax]

And surgical extraction is an option. Paying two life doesn't really matter when they are usually going to alpha strike/clock you with a fatty. It has a surprise effect like Mindbreak Trap did.

[Plague Sliver]

Just got back from GP Providence where I played Cat Zoo to 6-3 day 1, dropping 3 rounds in a row to end my day 2 hopes. Finished 171st place overall.

Round 1-3: byes
Round 4: win vs. Next Level Thresh
Round 5: win vs. 4 color Landstill
Round 6: win vs. Zoo mirror
Round 7: loss vs. Martin Juza playing CFB Mystic Batterskull
Round 8: loss vs. Rock
Round 9: loss vs. Nightmare playing CFB Mystic Batterskull

Teeg in main: excellent
Not playing price of progress: probably a mistake.

Highlight: playing Nightmare in Round 9
Lowlight: punting Games 1 and 3 of that match. I played so terrible...

I'll probably write a tournament report later. It was definitely a great weekend.

[bombbonne]

Here is the list I played at the GP, i'm not going to go into much detail here since I wrote a report over in the tournament report section:

3 Taiga
3 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Arid Mesa
2 Horizon canopy

4 Goyf
4 Wild Nacatal
4 Pride Mage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 stone forge mystic
1 Terrovore
2 Grim Lava Mancer

4 Lightning bolt
4 Path to Exile
2 Price of Progress
2 Lightning Helix
2 Sylvan Library

1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Jitte
1 Basilisk Collar

SB
3 Choke
2 Null Rod
1 Jitte
1 Batterskull
2 Krosin Grip
2 Thrun the Last Troll
1 Mystic Enforcer
1 Bajuka Bog
2 Swords to plow shares


I was impressred with the list and will continue to play a list like this in the upcoming SCG events. Stoneforge is really good right now esspecially against other stoneforge decks because you have more creatures to equip to.

[Fatal]

That list is interesting no noble hierarch while looking as Big Zoo

[bombbonne]

As long as you're smart with your land choices (it's not as hard to play around wasteland when you only play wild nacatal as "land matters" creatures) then you should be fine. I did want to play noble, but I just wanted everyone of my cards to do something at all points in the game, and stoneforge does that better than noble. plus equipment help win the goyf war also. I would like to fit an elspeth in there somewhere, but ultimatly Terravore made the cut instead and I won atleast two games because of his trample ability card.

While i'm on the wasteland topic, I found it better to just play more lands rather than to play around wasteland a better plan. I only play 10 fetches as apposed to 12 and 22 lands total. I'd even bate a wasteland by going turn one forest nacatal into platue. They would wasteland and i'd just play more lands.

[Temanaras]

With Team America being big in the meta, why are decks running fire and ice over feast and famine? At the least I would think run it in the sideboard. Switch it up depending on your matchup colors. The feast is also great. Spend your first main playing burn and removal to make sure you can swing through, then spend the new mana to drop your creatures.

[bombbonne]

It's really hard to agrue either way. Fire&Ice lets you draw a card and deal 2 which is huge. F&F blocks all black removal while getting through goyfs and knights. The only issue Ihave with F&F is zoo dunes their hand early. Usually you don't have more than two spells to play in a turn by the time you have a guy in play already, have casted the sword, and equiped it to something. The other sword I did consider, however, is sword of light and shadow. It dodged STP and black removal and gets dudes back from the grave who have been MM or forced. The gaining 2 life is pretty pointless though.

I guess it all comes down to personal intrest. I will be considering all my option when I go to SCG Baltimore.