Goyfless Sligh

[FoulQ]

"Goyfless" is a Rgw deck that infuses both zoo and goyfsligh, but sacrifices the raw power of goyf for maindeck relic of progenitus. Looking at how many decks are currently relying on their graveyards in the top and middle tiers (just take a look at the dtb section), maindeck relics are not a bad idea. BUT they are antisynergistic with tarmogoyf - giving the deck the name "goyfless." (adopted from "togless")....TRUE, its not really its OWN deck, but it is a spinoff of goyf sligh that I think deserves to be seen as a different deck.

4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kird Ape
4 Skyshroud Elite
3 Tin Street Hooligan

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Fireblast
3 Price of Progress
2 Magma Jet

3 Relic of Progenitus

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Taiga
2 Plateau
8 Mountain

(SB)
4 Krosan Grip
2 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Fireblast
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Price of Progress
3 Metagame Slots

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
First, looking at the deck's weaknesses: Stifle, to some extent Wasteland, Devastating Dreams, Chalice of the Void, and of course storm combo.

Storm combo is close to autoloss, but that really doesn't make up that much of the metagame...

The three tin street hooligans are mb to help with the chalice problem, it also breaks up the countertop engine. I feel that they are extremely helpful in so many matchups that the rare few times they are dead, they still come out as 2 power for 2cc.

I've toyed around with Rakdos Pit Dragon in the deck, because speed is not really a hot issue in legacy right now, and only one other creature that really sees play has flying (tombstalker). But eh he's just so eh..

One could of course can play wastelands in place of 4 mountains, or just play 1 plateau, but depending on the last sb slot things may change the plateau count. Not having wastelands encourages the opponent to have nonbasics, making skyshroud elite better. Most decks have become fairly resilient to wastelands alone (with no stifles) anyway.

[scrow213]

I guess this is the obligatory "Why play this instead of GoyfSligh?" post.

[FoulQ]

I guess this is the obligatory "Why play this instead of GoyfSligh?" post.

And my answer is that playing tarmogoyf means you can't play relic, basically.. Looking at the dtb section, a ton of them rely on the graveyard, and a ton of them play tarmogoyf. Relic destroys both those strategies. Sure, you might get matched up against something like goblins once in awhile, but thanks to x/3 creatures the deck plays, it can often overpower other aggro decks (the main users of non-graveyard strategies).

I realize the deck has its weaknesses, like chalice. But it can fight through almost everything except for storm combo.

[scrow213]

And my answer is that playing tarmogoyf means you can't play relic, basically.. Looking at the dtb section, a ton of them rely on the graveyard, and a ton of them play tarmogoyf. Relic destroys both those strategies. Sure, you might get matched up against something like goblins once in awhile, but thanks to x/3 creatures the deck plays, it can often overpower other aggro decks (the main users of non-graveyard strategies).

I realize the deck has its weaknesses, like chalice. But it can fight through almost everything except for storm combo.

Well it's an interesting idea, but how many of those decks need their graveyard? I mean it hurts Goyf and Thresh to some degree, and really hurts decks like Ichorid, but...

The other point is that most decks pack Relic anyway, and decks are designed to work around it. It seems to me that dropping something as amazing as Tarmogoyf for something like Relic is a bad plan.

Then again, I could very well be wrong. I will be interested to see some testing results.

[rockout]

how is your match up against said goyf sligh?

[FoulQ]

Well, I haven't done very extensive testing of the deck as of now, but I plan on it, but goyf sligh is probably not on the top of my list. But thanks to some implants from zoo (wild nacatl mainly), I think I have the edge creaturewise, as a relic will wipe his goyfs out. You have to remember that this deck does bring some shock value, because if I'm running Rg aggro they will expect goyf, not relic, so they won't play around it originally. With that in mind, it becomes a race as to whether he can draw the burn spells he needs to beat my creatures + my burn. Or hope that I draw a relic to stop his goyf thrashing. I'd say it's about 50/50, personally. I'm more worried about more common matchups though. This deck doesn't have any absolutely stunning matchups, but the only deck it absolutely gets owned by is storm combo. It could hold its own against basically anything thanks to maindeck relics, hooligans, and nacatls.

[Nihil Credo]

And my answer is that playing tarmogoyf means you can't play relic, basically..

Did you actually test it? I'm currently fiddling with a Zoo-ish deck that maindecks 4 Goyfs and boards 4 Relics, and it turns out they don't hurt too much together when I bring them in post-board. The interesting effect of Relic is the immediate one (killing 'Vores, getting rid of dredgers, making Goyfs die to burn), and if I have a Goyf out it generally gets back to combat-worthy size in a couple of turns.

With your MD Relics Tarmogoyf won't be quite as strong as it would be in regular Zoo or Sligh, but I'm betting it's still going to be better than Werebear or Tin-Street Hooligan or whatever.

[FoulQ]

Tin Street Hooligan is in there for one primary reason, and I don't think this can be stated enough: He kills chalice of the void at 1. In my playing of goblins chalice at 1 has always been a problem, and tin street hooligan is a good answer to that.

And I think part of it is that I want people to expect me coming at them with goyfs. There is a little bit of surprise when instead I play a relic. Now I have tested with goyf, but like I said, this deck is still developing and is by no means tweaked. I'm sorry if you feel I just threw my deck out here but I just wanted to know if this deck was an epic fail or if it has potential. Because personally, maindeck relics in goblins has been good to me.

I think it boils down to hooligan + nacatl + relic, personally I think the trio is strong. If one doesn't think they are strong and don't put as much emphasis on the shock factor as I do, than they probably think this deck is stupid. And I can respect that opinion.

[Benie Bederios]

Shouldn't Tarmogoyf be in the SB for the matchups where Relic does nothing?

BB

[kicks_422]

If you're playing RG Sligh without Goyf, just play Dryad Sligh.

[MSC]

A friend of mine is putting together a Deck like this as a Budget-Variant.

What tickles me is the high Land count and the Exclusion of Woolly Thoctar, which is a fair finisher.

Sideboard should include Gaddock Teeg. He is very good versus Landstill and gives you a little chance versus Combo...

[FoulQ]

A friend of mine is putting together a Deck like this as a Budget-Variant.

What tickles me is the high Land count and the Exclusion of Woolly Thoctar, which is a fair finisher.

Sideboard should include Gaddock Teeg. He is very good versus Landstill and gives you a little chance versus Combo...

I actually did originally include woolly thoctar, but I'm just a little hesitant to make myself that much more reliant on three colors. With stifle everywhere I feel that I'll take what I can get as far as my mana base goes.

Benie Bederios, yes it can, there are three open slots in SB and you can easily make room for a fourth, as their is plenty of junk in the SB...

From some initial and further testing last night the deck has been pretty average, though. It doesn't look like my experiment of a deck is going as planned.

[Captain Hammer]

Please call this deck what it is, Goyfless Zoo. I mean you run Wild Nactal's for godsake.

Also, play more white, this atleast lets you play StP/PtE, makes your Wild Nactal's into 3/3s and lets you play Wolly Thoctor which goes toe to toe with your opponent's Goyfs.

Here is my suggestion for a Goyfless aggro deck...

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains
3 Savannah
3 Taiga
3 Plateau
1 Horizon Canopy

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kird Ape
3 Skyshroud Elite
3 Watchwolf
3 Gadook Teeg
3 Woolly Thoctar

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Lightning Helix
2 Price of Progress/Fireblast

4 PtE/StP
2 Rancor

Relic doesn't seem like maindeck material. It doesn't do damage which goes against the flow of the rest of the rest. Against some decks it's dead, and against most decks, it's only possible utility is against Tarmogoyf. And StP/PtE deal with Tarmogoyf just as well and are a lot more generally useful to boot.

Play 4 Relic of the Progenitus in the sideboard for those matchups where that card is really strong.

[FoulQ]

Explaining StP: I have so many burn spells that I don't feel plowshares should fit in the deck. Such as boros which doesn't really play StP that much. But PtE is an option.

But after some more testing, the deck is flawed. It works as an ok budget variant, but really tarmogoyf has just proven again how stupid good it is. Sure, you can play wooly thoctar to rival goyf, but then it comes down to: why not just play goyf as well. I think y'all are underestimating maindeck relic in general, but this deck is just not the best fit for it...