Sorry, Format: Orim's Chant 5-8

[emidln]

http://www.wizards.com/mtg/images/daily/features/27a_silence_9ljam.jpg

[undone]

So this is strictly worse than chant (Not saying much chant is awsome) but its chant 5-8 O.o seems worse than duress because duress nabs you a CB and is black (HUGE) Chant also has the side effect of auto winning the ichorid matchup by simply being in hand with WW up.

Its very good for formats like extended though.

[Skeggi]

What deck would play this? I mean, T.E.S. would have interest probably, but is there room? Same goes for The Mighty Quinn (or any other reasonable deck that features Scepter/Chant).

[emidln]

So this is strictly worse than chant (Not saying much chant is awsome) but its chant 5-8 O.o seems worse than duress because duress nabs you a CB and is black (HUGE) Chant also has the side effect of auto winning the ichorid matchup by simply being in hand with WW up.

Its very good for formats like extended though.

You obviously don't play Storm vs Ichorid very much. You chant them in response to Narcomoeba triggers so they can't flashback Therapy/Dread Return to rape your hand/make dudes/win. It time walks them and they can't do anything about it. Since your FT is the same with storm combo, a chant effect will almost always win you the game on the spot.

This is a better Abeyance for combo (because combo rarely can afford the extra colorless) and the extra copies are backbreaking against any opponent not running CB control. I daresay that this might put TES over the top in terms of being able to reliably cast chant + bomb by turn 2 every single game (making the game into a question of the opponent having the hard counter instead of any number of soft counters that current annoy TES).

[rleader]

I don't know how I feel about the core set changes: if they have to fit in all kinds of big-time-stuff (wrath/planeswalkers/etc.) into a smaller set, pack EV seems pretty high. OTOH, if that doesn't work out so well and people don't bite, the prices for stuff like Silence will really spike. Portal all over again, potentially.

Silence is a good card imo, however the problem I have with it is I doubt MWC stands a chance in extended so it'll just be an enabler for combo decks: what's the point of re-carving out design space for white if it doesn't feel white? (/blue tarmogoyf, etc.)

[TheLion]

Why is the wording off? It looks like a bad fake, though it is real.

I mean why does this card not read: "... play spells this turn" ?

[Sims]

Why is the wording off? It looks like a bad fake, though it is real.

I mean why does this card not read: "... play spells this turn" ?


It was posted on Wizards main site, in an article about the upcoming core set. It's real. They just made a template change from play to Cast, probably because they're trying to revitalize the "fantasy" theme in the core sets.

[KillemallCFH]

however the problem I have with it is I doubt MWC stands a chance in extendedActually, MWC is really solid in Extended. And between Runed Halo, Gilded Light, Rule of Law, Martyr (anti-Tendrils), and Wheel of Sun and Moon (anti-Brain Freeze), the TEPS matchup is already winnable (though still unfavored, obviously).

[Atwa]

For some reason I actually see this as a good thing (printing new cards in core sets). I never bought any because I want the cards from their original series, this seems like a good thing to me.

I am also all for the return to the traditional fantasy theme. I started around 4th edition and the fantasy theme was one of the reasons for me to start the game.

As for Silence, I think it will have an equal impact to to format as Path to Exile: Almost none. Some decks will find use for it, but every deck will play Chant over Silence. A lot of decks don't even play a full set of Chant. The only reason why this will see play is as Chant nr 5, or as a way to play around Meddling Mage.

[scrow213]

I am just glad they are sticking with black borders for core sets. Now I don't mind getting core set printings of good cards. And I might actually buy some core set packs.

[scrumdogg]

This also gives hope to those of us who hate combo. The ability to pack eight 1cc spells to screw with Storm will be comforting. Abeyance is nice, but way too expensive in the sense that Storm can often go off before we have two mana (sadly...). Even if we do have that mana, needing to keep two open so thwarts development of our own that we have difficulty developing any pressure, allowing the Storm deck to craft a more disturbing and powerful hand. I see this card as a positive development.

[emidln]

The only reason we don't play full playsets of chant main in some lists is because we had to focus on something other than winning turn 1/2 because of all the soft counters like Spell Snare and Stifle. This gives us the necessary density of chant effects to always go all in early, which is a huge deal for a deck like TES. Incidentally, this also makes non-Chant/Silence hate against Tendrils a lot worse, particularly Runed Halo and Meddling Mage (whose most common targets were Chant so that the blue decks get to use all of their tricks).

[thefreakaccident]

I don't think that this card will make a huge impact... I might play it as a 5th chant in combo, that's about it.

Although I would much rather play seize/duress.

[Kuma]

I'm not sure how many Silences I'd run in Storm. On one hand these are Orim's Chants 5-8, but there's something to be said about diversity of protection. Duress lets you see your opponent's hand and Pyroblast can destroy Counterbalance.

[dahcmai]

I'm thinking it might even be possible to go with a Draw go clock like an old deck I used to have.

Packing

Silence, Chant, Abeyance, Mana Tithe, Force Spike, Daze, FoW, Scepter, and a couple of one drop weinies to get the clock on. Even a single Savannah Lion backed up by a Mother of Runes is deadly with that much stall. Similar to fish in a way.

Could be one annoying deck.

[TrialByFire]

If you notice it also does not target, so it cannot be countered by game rules, cannot be Misdirected (not sure how much that matters) and also affects every one of your opponents (multiplayer?)

x2 on the wierdness of the PLAY --> CAST change though. Just sounds different

[Mordel]

Hmm...so much for always being caught up to the core sets' staples by having played the game for years and years prior to their being reprinted.

I don't play standard anymore, but its nice to know that they have figured out a way to make it even more prohibitively-priced to come back to for people like me. Good job alienating long time players more, wizards.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

I don't even have Orim's Chant 1-4. I'm falling behind.

[mercenarybdu]

A Chant deck, or W^2 is all I see in our future for those cards.

Good multiplayer card, but very limited if you were to play it else where.

[frogboy]

Actually, MWC is really solid in Extended.

ahahahahahaha no.

[Cire]

Well personally i think it makes chant lock ridiculous:

Lets see:

To have a Scepter in your hand by turn 2

4 Scepter
4 Enlighted Tutor

Then to have a 'Chant' in your hand by turn 2

4 Orim's chant
4 Silence

you also need 4 mana by turn 2... so this mana base seems fine

4 Flooded Strand
4 U/W dual
1 Island
1 Plains
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of traitors

4 Lotus Petal
4 Mox Diamond

Why the diamond? well now that you have a chant lock on turn 2, the only way for them to win is from a turn 1 threat, a mishra's factory or similar land, or instant speed artifact destruction

to take care of the Mishra's and friends

4 Wasteland
1 Ghost quarter

the turn 1 threat

4 Echoing Truth
1 Rushing River

Why the blue?

For these counters

4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
4 Daze

and a win condition?

2 Something blue for the force of will
-----------

.... i know the above thought experiment was kind of stupid, and the deck it made kind of sucks, but as a blue print it's still pretty scary... Scepter chant decks i think could become faster and become pretty soon "Draw a Krosan Grip or lose" decks...just imagine the above tweaked with brainstrom, CB/Top engine, ect....already combo doesn't really stand a chance against the above deck with 8 chant effects and 10 free counters, aggro either won't be able to race a turn 2 scepter chant lock...only control or aggro control decks IMO can beat the above thought experiment and just remember the above is a 5 minute deck list! with time and play testing im sure it could be even deadlier....

Basically i think printing silence was a mistake....

[GGoober]

You need something other than just scepter lock win. If they board in Grips, you're pretty much screwed. I would suggest other win con such as Eternal Dragon. The thing with Scepter-Chant is that if you look at Deckcheck, almost no decks do well. It's just not that good, and there's no pressure to it. Many people can just about play around with Instants e.g. Solidarity and burn. Landstill can just cycle decree and win. So Scepter-Chant isn't a good deck, unless you pack a good form of win-condition. Just Scepter-chanting doesn't guarantee you a win.

[thefreakaccident]

You need something other than just scepter lock win. If they board in Grips, you're pretty much screwed. I would suggest other win con such as Eternal Dragon. The thing with Scepter-Chant is that if you look at Deckcheck, almost no decks do well. It's just not that good, and there's no pressure to it. Many people can just about play around with Instants e.g. Solidarity and burn. Landstill can just cycle decree and win. So Scepter-Chant isn't a good deck, unless you pack a good form of win-condition. Just Scepter-chanting doesn't guarantee you a win.

Solidarity and burn aren't played much any more... they also do not place well anymore... this arguement is not valid...


The true reasons that this deck cannot be played any more is because of landstill's ability to ignore it for the most part (countering it once so they can destroy it main phase, or just grip it entirely)... and threshold's CBs do a better job at locking down a game... not to mention that stifle is like ridiculously popular nowadays.


If you were to make scepter/chant work, you would need a good alternate plan like crz said...

Probably in a Uwr landstill shell or something.


EDIT:

Something like this looks decent:

artifacts//12
3 chrome mox
4 isochron scepter
3 engineered explosives
2 crucible of worlds

creatures//2
2 teferi, mage of zhalfir

lands//20
1 seat of the synod
4 tundra
2 volcanic island
4 flooded strand
3 mishra's factory
3 wasteland
1 academy ruins
2 island

spells//26
4 brainstorm
4 standstill
3 thirst for knowledge
4 swords to plowshares
4 orim's chant
4 force of will
3 counterspell

sideboard//
2 disenchant
3 tormod's crypt
4 meddling mage
3 red elemental blast
3 pyroclasm

[Artowis]

From Peter Jahn's article today.



However, the judge list on IRC carried the message that "cast" in Silence is a mistake. It should read "play."

[Aggro_zombies]

From Peter Jahn's article today.
DAMN IT.

I wanted cast. ;_;

[BreathWeapon]

People are under appreciating Silence, Kicker aside, Silence is superior to Orim's Chant because it circumvents Runed Halo, Tue Believer, Misdirection and Divert, and splitting Silence and Orim's Chant protects you from Meddling Mage. What's more so, having 8 "Chants" gives combo a consistent T2 "All In," 4 more W targets for Chrome Mox and 8 "Time Walks, and none of that can be scoffed at.

Density of Chant effects is really important, considering the SB space in AnT you could just switch between 8 Chants and 8 Discard depending on whether or not you're on the play or up against Counterbalance.