Piceli89
02-23-2009, 10:19 AM
Pitch World: a name, a garancy of total fun.
For the (damned) ones who didn't know this deck already, it can be defined as the unique " manaless" deck of legacy: it runs all the good cards with alternate cost ( FoW, Misdi, Pyrokinesis, etc) and focuses on winning the games by dropping a beef-always with an alternate cc, so Allosaurus or Vine Dryad- or with mandlands, packing all the possible heritage of colorless utility lands: rishadan port, wasteland, maze of ith, mutavault, mishra's factory, blinkmoth nexus, stalking stones (well, no, this one no).. Yes, so it's not completely manaless ( well, no at all, since the lands are 20), but it's nice to consider it that way.
Here you can find the old tread: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7377
The ol' lists used to run, as i was saying above, rider or dryad to win the game, and some of them also ornithopter , to swing for lethal damage with the overpowered combo Blazing Shoal+ reallycosty5coloredcard. This allowed for a (quitely) fast win , if well protected. The only weakness of this deck was extreme card disadvantage, and autolosses to some cards if they were landed on the board.
Now, I really appreciated this deck and wanted it to come back and crush legacy, but, since this will require time and some advices to take place, I want to post it here, in the casual forum. This doesn't mean that i consider the deck to be noobish and impossible-to-become-strong as it could seem, but i understand it's not threshold, so i can't even post it in the N&D ( slight irony intended).
In order to begin to redesign this deck, I started ofc from seeing which are the parts that are pretty mandatory in every list, and then tried to find the best alternate cc card which suited for that function.
Now we have:
ManaBase:
-Mishra's factory
-Mutavault
-Blinkmoth Nexus
-Wasteland
-Rishadan port
-Maze of Ith
Ok, these are the crew of the colorless utility lands, i suppose. The first three ones are pretty mandatory, they are our grizzly bears and flying men with pump effects that interact really well among them ( factory pumps mutavault, and blinkmoth can do so). Btw, flying Nexus with the pump effects ( read below) is pretty insane and sweet.
Waste and Port are the mana denial part of this deck which is just ridiculously good, being synergic with the fact that we actually don't need mana to play the other cards, i.e. having almost a sinkhole, and a continous ice on opponent's lands per turn. That won me lots of games, in testing.
I didn't consider Maze of Ith as a good choice because, altough being pretty useful against a format such legacy, it doesn't produce mana, which is really bad since the other lands require it to be animated or used in general. Maybe it could be a Sb card against aggro decks, but for those this deck is already prepared well.
Disruption:
-Force of Will
-Misdirection
-Unmask
-Disrupting SHoal
I picked up after some testing only the first two because i saw that reactive disruption pretty >> proactive in this deck, since it's always a "surprise! did you expect this junk pile to run counters??" effect. Moreover, misdirection is always a 2x2, and this seduced me a lot.
Disrupting shoal is absolutely randomic and situational, and usually opponent don't run 8-10 cc cards to counter ( when harcasting progenitu will become a tier1- strategy, then I'll think about it :cool: ).
Removals:
-Pyrokinesis
-Shining Shoal
-Sickening Shoal
-Sunscour
Here i choosed pyrokinesis and shining shoal because they are the only card which actually allow the deck to gain a bit of virtual card advantage, pyrokinesis above all. The possibility against little creatures to do 3-2 with damage assigning or redirecting damages from a big beef (like 6/7 tarmos or 8/8 crushers) to their owners has been simply amazing, especially if the oppo has received a naughty blast in the ass by a creature on fire with blazing shoal.
The other 2 cards were quite crappy: sickening kills automatically a creature ( since you'll pitch cc8 or cc10 cards), but it's always a 2x1; sonscour.. well.. 3x1 and getting countered simply sucks. It's for this reason that i'll avoid commenting too much on all the coldsnap alt cc cards.
Pumpers
-Bounty of the Hunt
-Blazing Shoal
Well, here Blazing shoal is the absolute tech of the deck. Just bring your opponent down with some little life with the manlands ( about 12 life), then swing another tie and pump you mishra/mutav/nexus with +10/+0 for instant and incredibly gorgeous win. Stare at your opponent's face, and just say "LOL".
Bounty seemed too weak for me, if it put counters i could have considered it, but it's just a tiny pump effect.
The old beaters:
-Allosaurus rider
-Vine Dryad
In my new list i completely cut both these guys: allosaurus isn't going to become that big ( an average 3/4 for only 3 cards ? wow ! Think they have printed a 5/6 cc-2 in a single card !), and dryad is just inoffensive with that crappy body. I think that manlands beatdown is the way to go this time, with 12 of them.
The Food:
-Karona, false god
-Coalition Victory
-Reaper King
-Progenitus
The print of the new major beef of legacy (and of magic ever perhaps), Progenitus, really gave a great boost to the potentialities of this deck, allowing it to replace the "cheap-costed " Karona with a 10 cc wonder. So, we have 8 10cc and 4 8 cc, it would be good if they'd print another cc10 5-color creature, but for now, it's pretty enough also in this way.
12 Food cards is the way to go, never felt the necessity to add more, also because they exclusively provide the "pitchation", so don't expect to hardcast progenitus of reaper king.
The Jolly cards:
-Street Wraith
-Relic of Progenitus
-Chalice of the Void
Well, it's here that we ruin the "manaless" adjective of the deck, but just for 4 cards. Street wraith is free deck-thinning at the acceptable cost of 2-life loss. i think it's way better than Urza's or Mishra's Baubles, we do not need to fill any yard with them, and seeing a random card is pretty a weak thing.
The other two must be discussed: I noticed that, in this deck, Relic ( which is a card i quite love btw) can not only do its function of cleaning, but also cantrips and gives this deck what it needs desperately for: cards in hand.
Chalice of the Void instead, although not cantripping, may be set easily at 1 or 2, and this usually allows us to gain some time to recover our hand-which empties at an incredible speed- and draw our "bombs".
in my list i opted for this last, but I'm still not convinced fully yet.
So we came to The List:
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Mutavault
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Progenitus
4 Coalition Victory
4 Reaper King
4 FoW
4 Misdirection
4 Pyrokinesis
4 Shining Shoal
4 Blazing Shoal
4 Street Wraith
4 Chalice Of The Void
tot. 60
Sideboard ( still under costruction)
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Winter Orb- because heavy control decks such as Landstill and Aggro Loam just pwn us, so it's nice to stop them a bit.I'd run 8 if possible.
2 Cave-In: against Gobbos and Aggro, to add further pyroclasm or Fire effects.
4 Nourishing Shoals: against Combo is nice to gain 10 life in response to Tendrils, ya know. May be sided in also aggro decks or Dreadnought ones
(even if shining shoaling a dreadnought onto its owner is >>>>>>>>>).
1 free slot.
Well, that was the explanation. I ran this list on MWS and won against 4-colored Zoo, against Ub psychatog stuff, MonoB heavy discard, and some Thresholds too. Lost to Stax, of course.
Nobody knows how this deck runs, and this is an enormous advantage. Moreover, packing a high density of utility lands along with powerful free spells has revealed itself to be a very good union, and can wreck your opponent if he can't understand how to deal with this deck. Shining and blazing Shoal are absolutely insane, and again, who the hell would expect them?!??
The problems of this deck are obvious: Trinisphere is almost an auto loss, as well as Blood Moon ( Magus can be killed easily), B2B and Crucible + Waste. Something should be found to compensate this weaknesses, as well as something which can increase the weak drawing -capacity of this deck, to make the card disadvantage less impacting. but I think this is a great improvement than the older lists, and I believe this deck can really build up and become something good (it' better than certain decklists in the N&D section, this s for sure).
It would be nice if people gave it just a single try on MWS, to realize how it can be fun to play with, but also pretty strong.
Adviced and Suggestions are appreciated, of course ! :smile:
For the (damned) ones who didn't know this deck already, it can be defined as the unique " manaless" deck of legacy: it runs all the good cards with alternate cost ( FoW, Misdi, Pyrokinesis, etc) and focuses on winning the games by dropping a beef-always with an alternate cc, so Allosaurus or Vine Dryad- or with mandlands, packing all the possible heritage of colorless utility lands: rishadan port, wasteland, maze of ith, mutavault, mishra's factory, blinkmoth nexus, stalking stones (well, no, this one no).. Yes, so it's not completely manaless ( well, no at all, since the lands are 20), but it's nice to consider it that way.
Here you can find the old tread: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7377
The ol' lists used to run, as i was saying above, rider or dryad to win the game, and some of them also ornithopter , to swing for lethal damage with the overpowered combo Blazing Shoal+ reallycosty5coloredcard. This allowed for a (quitely) fast win , if well protected. The only weakness of this deck was extreme card disadvantage, and autolosses to some cards if they were landed on the board.
Now, I really appreciated this deck and wanted it to come back and crush legacy, but, since this will require time and some advices to take place, I want to post it here, in the casual forum. This doesn't mean that i consider the deck to be noobish and impossible-to-become-strong as it could seem, but i understand it's not threshold, so i can't even post it in the N&D ( slight irony intended).
In order to begin to redesign this deck, I started ofc from seeing which are the parts that are pretty mandatory in every list, and then tried to find the best alternate cc card which suited for that function.
Now we have:
ManaBase:
-Mishra's factory
-Mutavault
-Blinkmoth Nexus
-Wasteland
-Rishadan port
-Maze of Ith
Ok, these are the crew of the colorless utility lands, i suppose. The first three ones are pretty mandatory, they are our grizzly bears and flying men with pump effects that interact really well among them ( factory pumps mutavault, and blinkmoth can do so). Btw, flying Nexus with the pump effects ( read below) is pretty insane and sweet.
Waste and Port are the mana denial part of this deck which is just ridiculously good, being synergic with the fact that we actually don't need mana to play the other cards, i.e. having almost a sinkhole, and a continous ice on opponent's lands per turn. That won me lots of games, in testing.
I didn't consider Maze of Ith as a good choice because, altough being pretty useful against a format such legacy, it doesn't produce mana, which is really bad since the other lands require it to be animated or used in general. Maybe it could be a Sb card against aggro decks, but for those this deck is already prepared well.
Disruption:
-Force of Will
-Misdirection
-Unmask
-Disrupting SHoal
I picked up after some testing only the first two because i saw that reactive disruption pretty >> proactive in this deck, since it's always a "surprise! did you expect this junk pile to run counters??" effect. Moreover, misdirection is always a 2x2, and this seduced me a lot.
Disrupting shoal is absolutely randomic and situational, and usually opponent don't run 8-10 cc cards to counter ( when harcasting progenitu will become a tier1- strategy, then I'll think about it :cool: ).
Removals:
-Pyrokinesis
-Shining Shoal
-Sickening Shoal
-Sunscour
Here i choosed pyrokinesis and shining shoal because they are the only card which actually allow the deck to gain a bit of virtual card advantage, pyrokinesis above all. The possibility against little creatures to do 3-2 with damage assigning or redirecting damages from a big beef (like 6/7 tarmos or 8/8 crushers) to their owners has been simply amazing, especially if the oppo has received a naughty blast in the ass by a creature on fire with blazing shoal.
The other 2 cards were quite crappy: sickening kills automatically a creature ( since you'll pitch cc8 or cc10 cards), but it's always a 2x1; sonscour.. well.. 3x1 and getting countered simply sucks. It's for this reason that i'll avoid commenting too much on all the coldsnap alt cc cards.
Pumpers
-Bounty of the Hunt
-Blazing Shoal
Well, here Blazing shoal is the absolute tech of the deck. Just bring your opponent down with some little life with the manlands ( about 12 life), then swing another tie and pump you mishra/mutav/nexus with +10/+0 for instant and incredibly gorgeous win. Stare at your opponent's face, and just say "LOL".
Bounty seemed too weak for me, if it put counters i could have considered it, but it's just a tiny pump effect.
The old beaters:
-Allosaurus rider
-Vine Dryad
In my new list i completely cut both these guys: allosaurus isn't going to become that big ( an average 3/4 for only 3 cards ? wow ! Think they have printed a 5/6 cc-2 in a single card !), and dryad is just inoffensive with that crappy body. I think that manlands beatdown is the way to go this time, with 12 of them.
The Food:
-Karona, false god
-Coalition Victory
-Reaper King
-Progenitus
The print of the new major beef of legacy (and of magic ever perhaps), Progenitus, really gave a great boost to the potentialities of this deck, allowing it to replace the "cheap-costed " Karona with a 10 cc wonder. So, we have 8 10cc and 4 8 cc, it would be good if they'd print another cc10 5-color creature, but for now, it's pretty enough also in this way.
12 Food cards is the way to go, never felt the necessity to add more, also because they exclusively provide the "pitchation", so don't expect to hardcast progenitus of reaper king.
The Jolly cards:
-Street Wraith
-Relic of Progenitus
-Chalice of the Void
Well, it's here that we ruin the "manaless" adjective of the deck, but just for 4 cards. Street wraith is free deck-thinning at the acceptable cost of 2-life loss. i think it's way better than Urza's or Mishra's Baubles, we do not need to fill any yard with them, and seeing a random card is pretty a weak thing.
The other two must be discussed: I noticed that, in this deck, Relic ( which is a card i quite love btw) can not only do its function of cleaning, but also cantrips and gives this deck what it needs desperately for: cards in hand.
Chalice of the Void instead, although not cantripping, may be set easily at 1 or 2, and this usually allows us to gain some time to recover our hand-which empties at an incredible speed- and draw our "bombs".
in my list i opted for this last, but I'm still not convinced fully yet.
So we came to The List:
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Mutavault
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Progenitus
4 Coalition Victory
4 Reaper King
4 FoW
4 Misdirection
4 Pyrokinesis
4 Shining Shoal
4 Blazing Shoal
4 Street Wraith
4 Chalice Of The Void
tot. 60
Sideboard ( still under costruction)
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Winter Orb- because heavy control decks such as Landstill and Aggro Loam just pwn us, so it's nice to stop them a bit.I'd run 8 if possible.
2 Cave-In: against Gobbos and Aggro, to add further pyroclasm or Fire effects.
4 Nourishing Shoals: against Combo is nice to gain 10 life in response to Tendrils, ya know. May be sided in also aggro decks or Dreadnought ones
(even if shining shoaling a dreadnought onto its owner is >>>>>>>>>).
1 free slot.
Well, that was the explanation. I ran this list on MWS and won against 4-colored Zoo, against Ub psychatog stuff, MonoB heavy discard, and some Thresholds too. Lost to Stax, of course.
Nobody knows how this deck runs, and this is an enormous advantage. Moreover, packing a high density of utility lands along with powerful free spells has revealed itself to be a very good union, and can wreck your opponent if he can't understand how to deal with this deck. Shining and blazing Shoal are absolutely insane, and again, who the hell would expect them?!??
The problems of this deck are obvious: Trinisphere is almost an auto loss, as well as Blood Moon ( Magus can be killed easily), B2B and Crucible + Waste. Something should be found to compensate this weaknesses, as well as something which can increase the weak drawing -capacity of this deck, to make the card disadvantage less impacting. but I think this is a great improvement than the older lists, and I believe this deck can really build up and become something good (it' better than certain decklists in the N&D section, this s for sure).
It would be nice if people gave it just a single try on MWS, to realize how it can be fun to play with, but also pretty strong.
Adviced and Suggestions are appreciated, of course ! :smile: