[Brainstorming] Bitterblossom in a Thresh Shell

[Phantom]

Has anyone tried this? Does it work? I was looking at the Abyss thread and thinking about how much better a card Bitterblossom is. I've played with BB in Legacy in a WB control deck and it seemed great in most situations and against most decks.

I can't decide what I would include/cut:

4x BS
4x Top
4x Ponder
4x CB
4x Fow

4x Goyf
4x Bitterblossom

...I can't decide what the other slots should be. Daze, StP, Mongoose, Tombstalker, Thoughtseize, Confidant, Vindicate, Repeal, etc. Anyone have any advice or thoughts?

[spirit of the wretch]

I pondered over a similar concept (never got to play it, as I only own 3 BB) with BB in a classic Grow shell. Cantrips, CounterTop, Goyfs, Daze, Force, Bob, Spellslutter Sprite, Jitte and removal.
I really think this card is heavily underrated in Legacy. As soon as I pick up my fourth copy, I'll start playing this deck.

[KillemallCFH]

When my brother and I were testing Ugb Thresh for the GP, we tried out a couple BBs in it. Basically, when it came down early, it was amazing, and almost an auto-win against some decks (the mirror comes to mind). However, when you were in a position in the mid-late game where you needed to topdeck a threat, it didn't cut it most of the time. As a 2-of, it isn't that good, since you really need to see it early, so it was cut. I think that a straight Ugb Thresh list with 4 BBs (and maybe Sprites, though I'm not really sold on those) could be really solid, though.

[rufus]

There's the option of playing 'blueless' thresh. Rather than the usual cantrips, the deck could play cards like:

Thoughtseize/Duress
Smallpox
Street Wraith
Land Grant/Sylvan Bounty
Fetchlands
Edge of Autmn
Viscera Dragger

I'm not sure that Bitterblossom would be a good fit though.

[scrow213]

There's the option of playing 'blueless' thresh. Rather than the usual cantrips, the deck could play cards like:

Thoughtseize/Duress
Smallpox
Street Wraith
Land Grant/Sylvan Bounty
Fetchlands
Edge of Autmn
Viscera Dragger

I'm not sure that Bitterblossom would be a good fit though.

Thresh works so well because of its blue base. It allows all the crazy good cantrip action that allows it to search out lands, threats, answers, etc. I don't see any way of "blueless Thresh" working.

[Afro]

When my brother and I were testing Ugb Thresh for the GP, we tried out a couple BBs in it. Basically, when it came down early, it was amazing, and almost an auto-win against some decks (the mirror comes to mind). However, when you were in a position in the mid-late game where you needed to topdeck a threat, it didn't cut it most of the time. As a 2-of, it isn't that good, since you really need to see it early, so it was cut. I think that a straight Ugb Thresh list with 4 BBs (and maybe Sprites, though I'm not really sold on those) could be really solid, though.

I had a similar idea. My threat shell was something along the lines of:

4 Goyf
4 Sprites
4 BB
3 Trygon Predator

I have done ZERO testing but my thoughts on Sprites are the following. Normally this deck wants to cast shit on its own turn and counter stuff while tapped out via Daze/Force of Will. Keeping 2 mana untapped, one being blue should send signals flying to an opponent especially games 2 and 3. Did you have this problem?

[Enigma]

I was thinking the exact same thing last week when I traded those 4 BBs. Here what I'm trying to play:

// Deck file for Magic Workstation

// Lands (17)
4 Underground Sea
3 Flooded Strand
3 Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island

// Creatures (11)
4 Spellstutter Sprite (-1 for 60 cards?)
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Dark Confidant

// Spells (33)
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Smother
4 Bitterblossom
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
4 Ponder

// Sideboard (15)
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 4 Engineered Plague
SB: 4 Duress (could be cut for Needles/Stifles)
SB: 2 Trygon Predator
SB: 2 Krosan Grip

61 cards... So I really don't know what to cut. Most probably 1 Stutter, since they are not really good on the early game. This deck really want to play spells early as CB, BB or Goyf.

Some questions remains:

Do we need Goose or not?
Is Smother enough versatile to be our main removal as a 4of?
2nd turn, what to play, CB or BB?
Mana base: Do we need a basic Swamp?

PM

[Omega]

Don't know, but i sure will use BB to lure counterspell against Landstill or deck running mass removal. But overall, losing a BB hurts less than losing a CB. Except some MU

Robert

[Maveric78f]

Cut daze for something else. And dark confidant is absolutely in *4. I'd say that jitte is really important to the deck because of the various life loss. So that I would play 3 of them. I'm not even sure you need the green splash. I would rather play some copies of relic MD and thoughtseize.

I would do something like this :
-4daze
-4tarmo
+1DC
+2relic
+1jitte
+4thoughtseize

[Blitzbold]

You might want to take a look at this one, too: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12745

The shell as well as the threats are comparable, the only difference being the use of CB / Top. Which could also be worked into Faestill - by omitting Standstill, of course.




Do we need Goose or not?
Is Smother enough versatile to be our main removal as a 4of?
2nd turn, what to play, CB or BB?
Mana base: Do we need a basic Swamp?
PM

- Mongoose is not needed in my intial experience with Faestill. Bitterblossom is a really great threat. It spits out flying Jitte-carriers, provides more Fearies and thus effectively turns Sprite into hardcounter at all relevant CC (and sometimes acts as Forcefield).

- Smother has been great for me. Turn to your sideboard if you need more specialised removal and get your Grips, Engineered Plagues or Putrefies.

- BB vs. CB: depends. I think I'd lead with BB in unknown matchups.

- regarding basic swamp: I like to fetch lands which are proof to commonly played disruption, therefore the basic swamp was an autoinclude for me.

[Phantom]

I'm not crazy about Spellstutter Sprite. I'd rather just play CB, FoW, nasty creatures, and dig. A 1/1 flyer attached to a conditional counter doesn't excite me at all unless I'm running equipment, which I certainly do not want to do.

The idea I had here was to run the best 2cc bombs in the game CB, Goyf, BB, and either Stalker or Confidant) alongside some 1cc dig and good removal. I'm not interested in cool tricks to get a 1/1 counterspell, or offsetting the lifeloss with Jitte. Those are both reasonable strategies, but ones for different shells I believe.

My eyes turn to Vindicate. The card seems great to me to put a 3cc CB target in the main that is also useful in every matchup. Thoughts?

[BreathWeapon]

I've been running this for awhile,

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Counterbalance
4 Thought Seize
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Bitterblossom
2 Tombstalker
4 Smother
18 Land

Tarmogoyf and Bitterblossom are pretty damn awesome together, you usually dominate the mirror and then lose some ground against Goblins. Dark Confidant is way too much life loss with both Thought Seize and Bitterblossom, and I don't think he's really needed. The best thing about Bitterblossom is that it shores up the removal, because it can stall a Tombstalker forever etc.

[Phantom]

I like that list. No thought to splashing white? I just hate all the black removal.

How have 2 Tombstalkers been? Have you ever tried 3?

[BreathWeapon]

I'm perfectly happy with Smother, between it and Bitterblossom the only thing you're really vulnerable to is Mystic Enforcer. Swords to Plowshares isn't enough of a reason to /w, tho' maybe Mystic Enforcer, Meddling Mage, Vindicate etc. would be worth a go.

Edit: Tombstalker is fine, I don't run more than 2 because it's kind of meh with Counterbalance.

[sauce]

check out this thread:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=150897

runs bitterblossoms in a blue/black/white shell with zur the enchanter.

[Phoenix Ignition]

I like my thread better http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12181

But ya know, you could run more bitterblossoms in it.

[Phantom]

Thanks for all the responses, but I'm really not looking for zur lists.