Wb control

[Holo_rip]

here we go again. Some of you might said "wtf why are you clogging the forum with such a dumb archetype", but well, i've never been a fan of blue.deck and i really think that a control deck in those particular color can be very strong.
I've already made several attempt to improve such deck. I must say that some of them were really bad, and some of them really interesting. The following list is an evolution of more then 5 month of work, so don't say anything dumb and try to make the deck better.

So, first maybe the list.

Land (24):
4 scrubland
3 bloodstained mire
3 windswepth heath
3 mishra's factory
3 wasteland
2 swamp
5 plain
1 nomad stadium

creature (1) :
1 eternal dragon

spell (30)
4 bitterblossom
4 thoughtseize
4 gerrard's verdict
4 STP
4 vindicate
3 SDT
3 humility
2 crucible of world
2 runed halo

planewalker (5) :
3 Ajani goldmane
2 Elspeth, knight errant

sideboard (15):
4 engineered plague
4 extirpate
4 ethersworn canonist
2 runed halo
1 tormod's crypt

SO, the land.
pretty basic. We're a control deck, so 24 is ok. 6 shuffle effect, 3 kill and 3 LD (cause well, the meta is full of non basic shit). 7 basic land to avoid non basic hate, great number. Also a singleton nomad stadium. Here as a life gain slot with ajani. This deck tend to loose lot of life with bitterblossom. And i can help against MU like burn (thought well, in most of the case too slow). I've think about kor-haven as a remplacement, cause most of the deck now run a low threat density.

creature.
at the begin, i had 3 E.dragon, as a search egine and recurring beater. I've drop to 2 because i didn't want it that often. And now i'm happy with only one, sometime we really want a land, and not a E.dragon. still here for the reccuring ability.

Discard suit.
4 thoughtseize : best discard spell ever. The life loss can be revelant sometime, but i'de rather loos two frmo a goyf or dreadnought than 4 / 5 / 12.
4 Gerrard's Verdict : can be questionnable. Here as a discard outlet to help the combo / controle MU. Choose over hmn because it doesn't require double white and the life gain ability is REALLY revelant .againt burn and combo.

Removal suit :
4 STP : best spot removal ever, take 4.
4 vindicate : best generic answer ever, take 4 too.
2 runed halo : not really a removal but help a lot. It is hate against creature.deck and combo. No slot to put 4 sadly.
3 humility : one of the most powerfull card of the deck. help against creature and swarm deck. Combo well with the manland, and also with bitterblossom and the elspth token. Don't want to be too reliant on this, so only 3. Again, not really a removal.

kill :
4 bitterblossom : the main kill of the deck. 4 because i want to see one as soon as possible. It won me plenty of match. Already played several time two BB. Really powerfull card, it is usually GG againt control deck. Sometime the life loss can be an issue.
3 Ajani : mainly here for the life gain and pump ability. It help greatly in the burn MU. With all the token this deck generate, we can swing for 8 really easily. Also, the ulimate ability is devastating againt control deck (hi, one turn clock).
2 Elspeth : the other kill. produce token, protect herself, and make everything indestructible (prop to hanni who suggest me this baby, she's really great). Only in two though. Can also speed the clock a la ajani with the pump/fly ability.

i count also factory and dragon as a kill, but there're more utiliy card than anything else.

Overall, this deck has a nice MU against aggro/control and control. Aggro tend to be hard but still manageable. Obously, the hardest MU is the combo one.
Can't really give any % ATM. I'll be doing this later when i've finish to playtest with a friend of mine that go to GP Chicago.

So, any question / feedback / advice ? For sure there is still room for improvement.

[Skeggi]

Why play this over Deadguy Ale (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2597)?

Also, why play Gerrard's Verdict over Hymn to Tourach?

[Agent J]

I played a quite similar deck for quite a while and I really love the concept. I don't like playing blue, too. :wink:

How good has Crucible been? I never really liked it in my build except for the random Wasteland lock. But that helped maybe in 5% of the games. Don't get me wrong, it was never really bad but most of the time it wasn't great either.
I'd consider cutting them and the Wastelands for another Factory, a Kor Haven and another Plains/Swamp/Eternal Dragon.

I had no chance to try Elspeth yet but you seem really convinced.

Other cards I tried include Kitchen Finks (nice with Ajani but bad with Humility), Pulse of the Fields and Decree of Justice (also nice with Ajani and very strong against Landstill). I could see one of those in the Crucible slot.

Unfortunately I don't have that many good ideas for the combo matchup...there is tons of good disruption but BW-Control has a really slow clock. So even if you rip your opponents hand apart he can often just wait and recover before you can kill him.
Cannonist is probably the strongest weapon we have since it disrupts and beats at the same time.

[Holo_rip]

Why play this over Deadguy Ale?

Also, why play Gerrard's Verdict over Hymn to Tourach?
I've been playing deadguy before. But this is a WHITE base control deck . Moreover, the thing is deadguy is all about tempo. Here we just want to answer the opponent threat till turn 4 / 5 and land a planewalker assap. If you can, also land a early BB wich is usually game.

Why gerrard ? Because double black for a white base deck is a pain in the ass. Also, the lifegain can help.


I played a quite similar deck for quite a while and I really love the concept. I don't like playing blue, too.

How good has Crucible been? I never really liked it in my build except for the random Wasteland lock. But that helped maybe in 5% of the games. Don't get me wrong, it was never really bad but most of the time it wasn't great either.
I'd consider cutting them and the Wastelands for another Factory, a Kor Haven and another Plains/Swamp/Eternal Dragon.

I had no chance to try Elspeth yet but you seem really convinced.

Other cards I tried include Kitchen Finks (nice with Ajani but bad with Humility), Pulse of the Fields and Decree of Justice (also nice with Ajani and very strong against Landstill). I could see one of those in the Crucible slot.

Unfortunately I don't have that many good ideas for the combo matchup...there is tons of good disrup

Crucible is there for several purpose. First, it give us ton of shuffle effect witch fetch land. I make wasteland / mishra's / nomad stadium that much better. I've been playing with 3 at the begin, then two with a toolbox for E.tutor (3 tutor), then drop the tutor and keep the two crucible.
The thing is, blue base aggro/control deck run plenty of non basic and a really low count of land. It is very easy to cut them of one color. And because this deck is primarly goal is tu crush aggro / control & control, well i've keep them. But if i were to cut them, that would be for decree.

i'll test that though thanks for the feedback.

[Agent J]

After seeing this thread I started testing this deck again. Here's my current list:

// Deck file for Magic Workstation

// Lands
6 Plains
3 Swamp
3 Windswept Heath
4 Scrubland
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Mishra's Factory

// Creatures
3 Ajani Goldmane
1 Eternal Dragon
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

// Spells
3 Thoughtseize
2 Decree of Justice
4 Bitterblossom
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Vindicate
4 Duress
2 Humility
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Smother

// Sideboard
SB: 4 Engineered Plague
SB: 3 Abeyance
SB: 4 Extirpate
SB: 4 Ethersworn Canonist

I already mentioned why I don't like crucible so much and I wanted to have a chance to play main deck Relics. I think it's a really useful card and moreover there are a lot of Loam decks in my meta so I decided to include it. At worst it fogs a Tarmogoyf or two which isn't that bad if you're drawing a card for it.

I chose Duress over Verdict or Hymn mainly because of the mana cost. It's also stronger at protecting your key spells and setting up Bitterblossom. It' might be a little weaker vs. aggro but I'm willing to risk that. Only 3 Thoughtseize because of the damage.

I also tried Engineered Explosives instead of Smother but most of the time they were too slow.

The Sideboard is more or less random because I didn't have enough time to find out what the deck really needs. Except for Extirpate I'm not sure at all at the moment.

[Mantis]

I'm testing a similair idea but I use a splash for green, this opens up to Sakura Tribe Elder and Pernicious Deed. Also, I get Glittering Wish (which I'm not sure is really worthwhile) and Garruk Wildspeaker. This allows for 7 Deeds between side and main.
I disliked Bitterblossom as the deck was so slow, I would just get killed by my own Blossom + some damage. I play 3 Garruk and 2 Elspeth and they are just insane together, if you get both Planeswalkers up and running you can just use the Overrun effect for a ton of damage. I'm still not sure if Humility is worth it, I guess I will try two out in the mainboard as they kick ass when Elspeth or Garruk sticks. Garruk helps improve the clock which is important to not allow your opponent to draw himself out of the situation and helps the combo matchup, which is probably still awful.

This deck wants 4 Sensei's Top though, really you won't be disappointed. Don't be afraid you draw two, you can always shuffle them away, and besides the times you draw 2 are not nearly as bad as when you draw 0.

That said, the deck still needs work and I'm not sure if it will ever work out. The problem is, the deck doesn't run anything that's truly awesome and broken. We don't have Goblin Lackey, Counterbalance, Dark Ritual, Ad Nauseam or even Force of Will. We also lack a busted draw engine like Standstill, and that's just painful.

[The Wes]

I'd suggest some ghostly prisons, they help a lot of machups.