[discussion] removal of Mana Burn

[DalkonCledwin]

Apparently there is a significant rumor that Mana Burn is going to be removed from the rules of the game, along with the other changes that are rumored to be taking place with M10 (aka 11th Edition). My question is, what does everyone think the impact of this change will be, especially with regards to everyones favorite storm deck: Ad Nauseam Tendrils? How easy will it be to hate out a Storm deck that no longer has to worry about a play such as the following: Dark Rital + Dark Ritual followed by an opponents Orim's Chant causing 5 points of Mana Burn???

[Soulles]

I really hope not. Because a change in core mechanics will make people dislike the game maybe.

And let's face it, it is not like Magic the Gaterhing is getting new players every year.

When something is not broken, why fix?

[JeroenC]

I really hope most of the rumors I've heard about M10 and any rules changes it might bring are false. So play is going to be cast again... Well, I guess I can accept that. But please don't make "in play" "on the battlefield" or "removed from the game" "Exile" or "The Void".
Mana burn is a good thing for the rules. And it's also flavorful. All these changes feel like a step back. We changed "bury" to "destroy- can't be regenerated" for a reason. Keep the game as it is. I'll go sit on my knees and beg you for it if you want me to.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

...would that mean that mana would no longer drain at the end of a phase? Because if that's the case, Rishadan Port will be nerfed unless it gets some sort of super-split second errata.


EDIT: Also, I'm not a fan of nerfing Eladamri's Vineyard/Magus of the Vineyard. While "cast" seems like it might clear up issues around "play" and "put in play," changes such as "battlefield" and/or "the void/exile/etc." just sound stupid an childish. I'm an adult, and I play this game for the strategy element, not to immerse myself in a card-based RPG.

[URABAHN]

Where did you hear this?

[rufus]

It's a perennial rumor. Trolls is hungry nom nom nom.

[JeroenC]

...would that mean that mana would no longer drain at the end of a phase? Because if that's the case, Rishadan Port will be nerfed unless it gets some sort of super-split second errata.

No, just that there's no more damage involved with spare mana.

[scrow213]

That would be stupid anyway. You tap your opponent's lands during their Upkeep, they would just always respond by tapping for mana, just in case they draw an instant. There would be no reason not to tap mana in response to anything.

[Seriously]

Apparently there is a significant rumor that Mana Burn is going to be removed from the rules of the game,

significant ? can you post links to many sources stating this then ?



...would that mean that mana would no longer drain at the end of a phase? Because if that's the case, Rishadan Port will be nerfed unless it gets some sort of super-split second errata.


other cards too, like mistbind clique in standard. player A flashes in mistbind during player Bs upkeep to tap his lands. in reponse player B taps them all and carries the mana to his main phase ? seriously ? I dont think so.

this would have too large an impact on the way the whole game is played, so I seriously dont think that this would happen or be true.

[JeroenC]

other cards too, like mistbind clique in standard. player A flashes in mistbind during player Bs upkeep to tap his lands. in reponse player B taps them all and carries the mana to his main phase ? seriously ? I dont think so.

This doesn't work. Your mana pool empties at the end of your draw step.

[DalkonCledwin]

Where did you hear this?

Source, Urzassedatives is one of the Moderators for the Rumor Mill, when he speaks, the Rumor Mill Listens (http://www.forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=3659848&postcount=213)


This doesn't work. Your mana pool empties at the end of your draw step.

Yes, but you can still play instants in your draw step after you draw....

[DeathwingZERO]

Mana burn has turned into far less of an issue in the game over the years. Getting rid of it really doesn't change anything. Storm decks that cast those Rituals are still out 2 mana accelerants and storm, and that's far more important than life total, for example.

They would essentially destroy the game if they made it so mana didn't empty at the end of phases in addition, though. Every person would have mana floating whenever they felt like it, and that's a nightmare for tournaments.

[Gambit]

Get your Braids of Fire before they're $20 each!

[JeroenC]

Yes, but you can still play instants in your draw step after you draw....

You can do the same thing now. Just have a little risk of mana burn.

Braids of Fire will not improve because mana pools empty at the end of the draw step. Which is the end of the start of turn phase. Mana pools empty at end of phases- that won't change at all. Mana burn is just an additional effect. Even if they decide to drop mana burn, mana pools still empty at:
-end of turn
-end of second mainphase
-end of combat phase
-end of first mainphase
-end of draw step

[Nihil Credo]

I'd have zero problem with it and actually be happy, as long as they had someone go through Oracle with a fine-tooth comb to make sure there isn't some obscure card that gets broken in half by that (no, Braid of Fire is fine).

Vote no on "battlefield". Flavour-wise I like it, but it's waaay too long and unwieldy.

And didn't someone say that the "cast" on Silence was just a mistake in the article mockup?

[DalkonCledwin]

And didn't someone say that the "cast" on Silence was just a mistake in the article mockup?

Someone did, but according to some people it was a judge who was simply joking around....

[Mordel]

I'd rather them keep it to be honest. Removal of mana burn seems like a testament to a lack of interest in eternal formats in general. While not relevant too often, as a frequent pilot of stax, I mana burn for a point or two over the course of the game and it adds another dimension to my decision making process. Removing mana burn strikes me as further dumbing-down of the game.

I played a bit of standard the other day and it apalled me how simple the game has become in the contructed formats. From what I have experienced so far the simplification of the game hasn't resulted in a bigger focus on "pure strategy" and a deviation from "esoteric knowledge", but more of a dumbing down, period.

Thoug it took me a little bit, but less than five games to warm up to the stack I like that simplification very much. Mana sources and interrupts added a sort of tediously tricky aspect to the game, but the changes in the game as whole smack of Pokemonification to me.

They're ruining a game that has been present in almost as far back as I can remember little by little.

[kensook]

Can anyone think of any reason they would possibly want to remove mana burn? I've never encountered a problem with having it as a rule and although its a pretty minor point in the overall game, it was a good punishment to have for when a player creates mana without being able to use it in the given phase.

[Phoenix Ignition]

I'd rather them keep it to be honest. Removal of mana burn seems like a testament to a lack of interest in eternal formats in general. While not relevant too often, as a frequent pilot of stax, I mana burn for a point or two over the course of the game and it adds another dimension to my decision making process. Removing mana burn strikes me as further dumbing-down of the game.

I second this. I love Dazing something against a stax player when all the land they have up is an Ancient Tomb. Turns my Daze into a lightning bolt.

Also, I agree with everyone saying... why? This is a completely pointless rule change that I can only justify by thinking that WotC just wants one less rule for new players to learn. This is ridiculous though. It makes logical sense that if you charge up your magic to cast a spell but then don't, you'll get blue-balled and it's gonna hurt.

Take out time stamps if you want to make the game simpler :tongue: .

Overall this actually helps my Wakethrasher a shitload, but is just stupid.

[GreenOne]

Get your Braids of Fire before they're $20 each!
Also, no more mana burn to go to 9 life!

http://wowbox.tw/mtg/images/sok/Hidetsugus_Second_Rite.jpg

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Overall this actually helps my Wakethrasher a shitload, but is just stupid.

Oi, that's a scary thought!