GRAND PRIX: CHICAGO!!! - Live Coverage

[Omega]

if he loses, he will be at 37. And he might not make it right?

Robert

[Aj-capra]

Caplan must draw or win!!!

[godryk]

But his opponent has "only" 36 points so he won't draw...

[Aj-capra]

But his opponent has "only" 36 points so he won't draw...

Caplan slow play :P

There're a lot of people at 36 points and Nassif 35 and four at 34.

[miro]

regardless of final standings : LSV and Nassif ... i'm impressed

[georgjorge]

From the Day 2 metagame breakdown, excluding the decks with numbers < 5...

Out of 96 decks, there should be about (assuming rather standard lists)

~50 playing Force of Will
~45-50 playing Brainstorm (depending on the ANT builds)
~43 playing Tarmogoyf (not all CounterTop might though)
~40-45 playing Daze (that number could be lower though)
~26-36 playing Sensei's Divining Top (depending on the ANT builds)
~27 playing Aether Vial
~26 playing Counterbalance (some Merfolk might as well though)


Of course, the numbers might be a bit off if there's some very unusual deck lists in there, but it should be an approximate indicator.

[Michael Keller]

Rick Argiro (Jander78) 2-1
Geoff Smelski (Konsultant) 4-0
Bob Kochis (Raider Bob) 3-0

Team Left Field!!!!!!!!!

HELL FUCKING YEAH!!!

[Mantis]

All those players in the topranking are amazing and utterly dominate either their local scene or rock the PT. Brian Kowal, Brassman, Goobafish, TK, Nassif, LSV, The Atog Lord etc. Nice! I wish I was there, just watching those T8 play out would be awesome already.

[Aj-capra]

Compliments to Brandon Burton because he's a disabled kind (photo...) and this result is very very important for a person isn't lucky...

Congrats!!!

[Omega]

And seeing her mom bring him to that event is great support too!

I mean, would your mom bring you to play magic? NO!
But im sure she wanted to pleaser her son, so she did that sacrifice

Robert

[Aj-capra]

15 turns

Gabriel Nassif 2, Josh Utter-Leyton 1

[Aggro_zombies]

Who's in the Top 8, and what are they playing? Nassif for sure with the round 15 result. Who else?

EDIT: Nassif has black-white CounterTop.

[Pulp_Fiction]

OMG I wish I could have gone to this!!!

Eternal Garden would destroy this whole meta! Granted I would not have played that at all .... but still!

Lots of people are talking about Andy's deck, he plays the same deck EVERY WEEK with minor tweaks to the SB. So when you have played against Andy for 8+months of him playing nearly the exact same deck .... not so interesting. I do love resolving Choke though!

Also, is it just me or is the feature match coverage getting very monotonous? Same 40 cards in most feature match decks = pretty boring.

Does anyone know what Conley Woods is playing?

[Aj-capra]

Who's in the Top 8, and what are they playing? Nassif for sure with the round 15 result. Who else?

EDIT: Nassif has black-white CounterTop.


1 Risk, Jimmy K 33 vs. Burton, Brandon 33
2 Caplan, David M 37 vs. Six, Brian D 36
3 Probasco, Andrew 36 vs. Mink, James C 36
4 Lynch, Jeffrey T 36 vs. Kolowith, Tommy 36
5 Nassif, Gabriel 35 vs. Utter-Leyton, Josh W 34
6 Davis, Jim I 34 vs. Diaz Diaz, Pablo David 34
7 Hunt, Tim R 34 vs. Scott-Vargas, Luis D 33

Nassif won (38 points)
risk or burton (36 points)
caplan or six (40 or 39)
probasco or mick (39)
lynch or kolowith (39)
davis or diaz (37)
hunt or vargas (37 or 36)

Nassif top8 sure

hmmm interesing 5-8 post

[bradleyjx]

1 Kowal, Brian J 40 72.1836%
2 Rietzl, Paul R 39 73.5725%
3 Kolowith, Tommy 39 66.0746%
4 Nassif, Gabriel 38 73.7037%
5 Caplan, David M 38 70.4409%
6 Probasco, Andrew 37 75.6878%
7 Six, Brian D 37 74.6759%
8 Mink, James C 37 68.7500%

The page is there, but the link hasn't update on the main site...

[jjjoness']

So it's goobafish vs. Nassif. Wow.

[Kitchen Table Hero]

Caplan slow play :P

There're a lot of people at 36 points and Nassif 35 and four at 34.

Yes but remember only half of those can get the 3 points. My hope is at least that even if the player at 34 wins and gets 37, Caplan looses and stays at 37 his OMW% will be greater.

EDIT: results posted while doing the math. C-C-C-CCCCCONGRATS!!!

[Artowis]

1 Kowal, Brian J 40 72.1836%
2 Rietzl, Paul R 39 73.5725%
3 Kolowith, Tommy 39 66.0746%
4 Nassif, Gabriel 38 73.7037%
5 Caplan, David M 38 70.4409%
6 Probasco, Andrew 37 75.6878%
7 Six, Brian D 37 74.6759%
8 Mink, James C 37 68.7500%

[Aj-capra]

1 Kowal, Brian J 40 72.1836%
2 Rietzl, Paul R 39 73.5725%
3 Kolowith, Tommy 39 66.0746%
4 Nassif, Gabriel 38 73.7037%
5 Caplan, David M 38 70.4409%
6 Probasco, Andrew 37 75.6878%
7 Six, Brian D 37 74.6759%
8 Mink, James C 37 68.7500%

The page is there, but the link hasn't update on the main site...

Caplan and Six intentional draw?? hmmm

[Rood]

Caplan is one scary dude...Brassman is also quite the tank.

[Omega]

They probably mathed that a draw would allow both of them to top8 :)

Robert

[Whit3 Ghost]

Dave Caplan!!!!!1

[jjjoness']

Will there be a Top 8 stream, or is this Pro Tour and Worlds only?

[Aj-capra]

They probably mathed that a draw would allow both of them to top8 :)

Robert

I quote it!!!

[Aj-capra]

Will there be a Top 8 stream, or is this Pro Tour and Worlds only?

Gp not :(( I think this...

[Aj-capra]

Top8 here....

1 Kowal, Brian J
8 Mink, James C

4 Nassif, Gabriel
5 Caplan, David M

2 Rietzl, Paul R
7 Six, Brian D

3 Kolowith, Tommy
6 Probasco, Andrew

@edit : Brian Kowal' list is very very....:eyebrow: :eyebrow: :eek: :eek:

Only one deck with counterbalance in top8...ban loool

[bruno_tiete]

I am happy to see Mink (the one Dragonstompy guy) making top8.

Also, I hope Caplan beats Nassif.

[Aggro_zombies]

1 Dragon Stompy (lulz Artowis)
1 TES
2 Suicide Black variants
1 GOYF SLIGH
1 Tempo Thresh
2 "Counter-Top"

Wonder what the highest placing for Aggro Loam was...

Also, screw you Luis. I wanted you to make top 8. :mad:

EDIT: Big WTF goes out to Nassif's sideboard. Is that even correct, and if so, what was he thinking?

All of these decks look boring to play. Playing a deck with Counter-Top in it is like having teeth pulled, but at least it's better than playing against combo.

[elof]

WoW! Nassif SB:

Sideboard


1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Darkblast
1 Energy Flux
1 Engineered Plague
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Hydroblast
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Krosan Grip
1 Perish
1 Planar Void
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Threads of Disloyalty
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Umezawa's Jitte

[Pulp_Fiction]

I really like Rietzl's list. But the SB ... no Krosan Grip and just 1 Choke? If he is in second place out of 1230 people can't really critisize that but I don't know about that SB. Based on his list though, he could easily support Putrefy in the Jitte and Edict slot.

[Omega]

This is how diverse legacy is!

[Peter_Rotten]

1 Dragon Stompy (lulz Artowis)
1 ANT
2 Suicide Black variants
1 GOYF SLIGH
1 Tempo Thresh
2 "Counter-Top"

Wonder what the highest placing for Aggro Loam was...


Corrections in bolded and underlined. :wink:

[Aggro_zombies]

Corrections in bolded and underlined. :wink:
My apologies. :rolleyes:

[Pulp_Fiction]

Andy just won the first game of his top 8 match.

[Whit3 Ghost]

Brassy vs TK will be an epic match.

I'm not thrilled with Cappy's chances preboard, but Submerge and Red Blasts might be enough to give him games 2 and 3.

[Omega]

Actually, Nassif manabase is extremely fragile. If David can keep him off from his colored mana source via Stifle and Wasteland, he might just buy enough time to win the game.

But the lack of Artifact removal will hurt his gameplay :S A resolved CB/top is almost GG for tempo Threshold

Disrupt is a weird choice

Robert

[Aggro_zombies]

Andy just won the first game of his top 8 match.
Well, Tommy is playing ANT and Andy is playing Counter-Top...one of these players doesn't stand a chance.

EDIT: Wait, he's playing TES! Well, he's not so screwed now.

[Artowis]

1 Dragon Stompy (lulz Artowis)
1 ANT
2 Suicide Black variants
1 GOYF SLIGH
1 Tempo Thresh
2 "Counter-Top"

Wonder what the highest placing for Aggro Loam was...

Also, screw you Luis. I wanted you to make top 8. :mad:

EDIT: Big WTF goes out to Nassif's sideboard. Is that even correct, and if so, what was he thinking?

All of these decks look boring to play. Playing a deck with Counter-Top in it is like having teeth pulled, but at least it's better than playing against combo.

Yep, only one made day 2 and I was feeling high and mighty, then it made t8. Rough beats. At least I can dream that everyone else playing it scrubbed.

On the flip side, at PR pointed out, GOYF SLIGH MOTHERFUCKERS. Not relevant, my ass. You don't see MERFOLK in the t8 do you? :lol:

Also two Sui variants, soooo ridic.

[Whit3 Ghost]

Actually, Nassif manabase is extremely fragile. If David can keep him off from his colored mana source via Stifle and Wasteland, he might just buy enough time to win the game.

But the lack of Artifact removal will hurt his gameplay :S A resolved CB/top is almost GG for tempo Threshold

Disrupt is a weird choice

Robert
Disrupt is absurdly good. Cantrippable countermagic is underrated.

[Pulp_Fiction]

Its not really TES, its some kind of ANT/TES Hybrid, very impressive list but no Blasts in the board .... I don't know, I don't like his chances, however, Shusher will be hot, especially in a combo deck running 14 lands!

[Artowis]

Its not really TES, its some kind of ANT/TES Hybrid, very impressive list but no Blasts in the board .... I don't know, I don't like his chances, however, Shusher will be hot, especially in a combo deck running 14 lands!

It's fucking storm combo, you guys should stop arguing over nitpicky crap that doesn't matter. He probably just modded his Vintage combo lists until he felt comfortable with it.

[Nihil Credo]

Kolowith's list is actually a sort of hybrid - TES but with fetches and duals rather than Cities, and packing MD Mystical as well as a 4/1 Duress/Chant split.

And P_R, sorry to disappoint, but Six's list runs 12 pure beaters and therefore fully qualifies as Zoo. Not that anyone who doesn't compile DTBF data should care.



I'm rather relieved at seeing the Top 8 lists - I was afraid there would be like six Counter-Top decks. Glad to see that decks such as Stompy and Storm pulled it off even as they completely dodged the feature match area.

EDIT: Wow, fast thread.

[Aj-capra]

Natural order and cb+sdt suck I think...

Oky wiz not ban these cards :P

[TheLion]

Will there be decklists of the Top132, too?

[Jak]

102 people viewing this thread. WOW.

Anyone have updates?

[Aggro_zombies]

On the flip side, at PR pointed out, GOYF SLIGH MOTHERFUCKERS. Not relevant, my ass. You don't see MERFOLK in the t8 do you? :lol:
I'm pretty sure it was in the top 16. What's-his-name was playing it, the one guy with the four Spellstutter as his only Faerie.

[Omega]

perhaps my brain is not functionning well. But can type an example of how disrupt can be amazing? I see it is like a daze, but you said it, it can cantrip away

How do you think David will side against Nassif?

He has 4 blast, possibly 1 grip. 1 EE?
4 Submerge??
And while we are at it why not bring in the 4 disrupt? lol

Will he sideout Daze? (4 daze --> 4 blast?)
Bolt/Fireice ?? But they are really good. Maybe the bolt, since the fire/ice is stronger.

[Nihil Credo]

I'm actually waiting for the player profiles. There must be a cool story behind Nassif's Highlander sideboard.

[Aggro_zombies]

I'm actually waiting for the player profiles. There must be a cool story behind Nassif's Highlander sideboard.
Database error. Please, please let it be a database error.

[Omega]

but his md is probably strong enough. And he is too pro to play with sb


Robert

[KillemallCFH]

VsTheWorld was 10-4 going into the final round, and then lost to god draws. Bad beats. Had he won, he would've made Top64 and at least had something to show for his efforts.

That being said, congrats to Forceofwill and kosultant for Top64ing, Rich Shay for Top16ing and Dave Caplan for winning the whole thing (or at least Top8ing if he somehow loses).

[nastynate]

I'm actually waiting for the player profiles. There must be a cool story behind Nassif's Highlander sideboard.

It'll be, "I didn't test much, and I'm not really that familiar with Legacy, so I just threw a sideboard together and crossed my fingers." Nassif is just a really good player that was able to overcome the limitations of a sub-optimal side-board.

[Nihil Credo]

Heh, I'd always pictured goobafish as someone small and scrawny.

[Eldariel]

Two severed thumbs up for Caplan. Do it for the Source!

[Aj-capra]

http://www.wizards.com/mtg/images/daily/events/gpchi09/Top8_Caplan.jpg

go go go sourcer!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jak]

It scares me how good some people are at Magic. Caplan top 8s everything he's in and Nassif... It is ridic.

[Aggro_zombies]

It'll be, "I didn't test much, and I'm not really that familiar with Legacy, so I just threw a sideboard together and crossed my fingers." Nassif is just a really good player that was able to overcome the limitations of a sub-optimal side-board.
He got the list from Luis. Luis might've given him a random board as a joke.

EDIT:
Heh, I'd always pictured goobafish as someone small and scrawny.
In other words, you thought he'd look like a goober?

[Jak]

Hmmm there were no video deck techs :(

[Omega]

At least, one of the top8 has tested (David Caplan)

Yea, its amazing to see how good they perform. Stress, luck, opponent

Robert

[mackaber]

He got the list from Luis. Luis might've given him a random board as a joke.

Two answers: a) Card availability b) The "all these cards are so good it doesn't matter which to board" theory. While Nassif's SB is kind of extreme there's actually the thinking that if you have no clear defined plan this makes it harder for your opponent to countersideboard you. Also one ofs are good with mad shuffling skills but Nassif is far beyond doing that sort o crap.

[Jak]

Nassif always plays one ofs... and draws them when he needs to.

[Artowis]

Nassif probably didn't give a shit and the fact that he runs so many filtering effects kind of makes the 1-of plan a lot better than it should be. Karsten has been doing this lately with his standard decks.

[jjjoness']

Nassif always plays one ofs... and draws them when he needs to.
He actually has the secret tech 60 cards sideboard.

[Omega]

but look at Caplan
1 Pyroclasm and 1 Krosan Grip!!!

He too play some 1of

[Pulp_Fiction]

Andy just won the match 2-0 and will play either Dragon Stompy or BGw Eva Green next round.

And earlier he lost to that BGw list.

[KillemallCFH]

Just got a text from my brother saying "Caplan is about to lose."

[Artowis]

Brian Kowal just lost, of all things, to a MISSED BOB TRIGGER. GG.

[Silverdragon]

I just tried to make a post comparing Nassif's board to Probasco's but the forums make it look ugly so I stopped. Anyway if you compare the functionality of the cards they are very very similar. Both have 3 cheap graveyard hating cards, both have 2 Blasts, both have 1 KGrip (and 2 more cards specifically hating on Affinity) and both have about the same amount of hate for tribal decks and creatures in general. The Duresses are the only big difference but I think Nassif just wanted to tune his deck more against creatures (and maybe focus more on controling the opponents creatures in the mirror instead of controling the stack)

[Omega]

IF Caplan loses, it will be a sad day for legacy lol

I hope the "pros" enjoyed the format. They might play more!

Robert

[KillemallCFH]

Caplan just lost.

[nastynate]

I just tried to make a post comparing Nassif's board to Probasco's but the forums make it look ugly so I stopped. Anyway if you compare the functionality of the cards they are very very similar. Both have 3 cheap graveyard hating cards, both have 2 Blasts, both have 1 KGrip (and 2 more cards specifically hating on Affinity) and both have about the same amount of hate for tribal decks and creatures in general. The Duresses are the only big difference but I think Nassif just wanted to tune his deck more against creatures (and maybe focus more on controling the opponents creatures in the mirror instead of controling the stack)

Seriously? Brassman plays Legacy all the time; his board was planned. Nassif plays Legacy...never; his board was random good stuff. That's not a planned side-board, nor did he have a side-board strategy. Nassif is just good enough at MTG that it didn't prevent him from reaching the top 8.

[Xeen]

That's not a planned side-board, nor did he have a side-board strategy.


LSV handed Nassif the list ... LSV plays lots of Legacy .. not a planned board, sure?

[Pulp_Fiction]

This is a serious question because I have never seen it happen, if you miss a Dark Confidant trigger its a game loss?????????

[Bardo]

My money is on Nassif to win the whole thing, he's one of the top 5 greatest players alive and on a roll. Though I'd be thrilled if Brassman won. Too bad WotC's isn't streaming the matches. Hitting the refresh button on my browser every 3-4 minutes will have to do. :(

[nastynate]

LSV handed Nassif the list ... LSV plays lots of Legacy .. not a planned board, sure?

LSV builds his side-boards specifically for the expected metagame provided that he actually plans to play the deck. I bet he handed the deck-list to Nassif without a side-board.

[Ectoplasm]

This is a serious question because I have never seen it happen, if you miss a Dark Confidant trigger its a game loss?????????

Professional REL is serious business

[Artowis]

So yeah, top 4 matches will be:

Mink (DS) vs. Nassif (NLU)
Andy (NLU) vs. Rietzl (BG Sui)

Rietzl beat Andy in the swiss, so this may be the unfortunate end to his insane run.

[Pulp_Fiction]

I would have put my money on either suicide variant, IMOP best lists in the top 8 (except for Rietzl's Sb of course). And I really love that ANT/TES Hybrid list.

[Silverdragon]

Nassif said that he got his deck from LSV so we can assume that he didn't have a strategy when the event started. However what I wanted to say was that these "random good stuff" cards are in ratios that are very similar to those of people who play Legacy all the time so either LSV or Nassif has to have a slight clue about Legacy.

edit: btw
1 Telemin Performance
awesome tech!

[Eldariel]

LSV plays quite a bit of Eternal. He isn't totally clueless.

[KillemallCFH]

Top 4 is:

Andrew Probasco (cb/top.dec) v Paul Rietz (Eva Green)
Nassif (cb/top.dec) v James Mink (Dragon Stompy)

EDIT: Ninja'd by about 4 posts.

[klaus]

I'm aware Kowal is out already, but 4 Mesmeric Fiends in a deck that's got enough White to support Tidehollow Sculler?!?
-
BigUps to all Sourcers Top64ing!

[Nihil Credo]

So Nassif is up with 4C CounterTop against Dragon Stompy with 4 BOILS in the sideboard? He'll need both his proven skill and the favour of Satan to pull it off.

At least his match will be best of three rather than best of five - this gives him much better odds against an unreliable deck with a killer sideboard.

[bruno_tiete]

Professional REL is serious business

In fact, Missed Trigger is Warning at Professional REL. Either he was repeating an earlier error or it must have been Failure to Reveal.

[Eldariel]

So Nassif is up with 4C CounterTop against Dragon Stompy with 4 BOILS in the sideboard? He'll need both his proven skill and the favour of Satan to pull it off.

At least his match will be best of three rather than best of five - this gives him much better odds against an unreliable deck with a killer sideboard.

His claim to fame is the "luckiest player on the planet". He, if anyone, can.

[Bardo]

So Nassif is up with 4C CounterTop against Dragon Stompy with 4 BOILS in the sideboard? He'll need both his proven skill and the favour of Satan to pull it off.

Agreed. That is an awful match-up. Those two basic Islands in Nassif's deck are going to need to work overtime. I dunno what the right odds are here, but I wouldn't bet on Nassif if they were 1-1.

[Zach Tartell]

I'm aware Kowal is out already, but 4 Mesmeric Fiends in a deck that's got enough White to support Tidehollow Sculler?!?
-
BigUps to all Sourcers Top64ing!

He plays Dark Ritual. The two don't mix.

[conboy31]

How should he board with -
1 Blood Moon
4 Boil
1 Pithing Needle
3 Powder Keg
4 Pyroclasm
2 Umezawa's Jitte

vs ctop?

[Fuzzy]

I'm aware Kowal is out already, but 4 Mesmeric Fiends in a deck that's got enough White to support Tidehollow Sculler?!?
-
BigUps to all Sourcers Top64ing!

Dark Ritual. ^^

[Ectoplasm]

So Nassif is up with 4C CounterTop against Dragon Stompy with 4 BOILS in the sideboard? He'll need both his proven skill and the favour of Satan to pull it off.

At least his match will be best of three rather than best of five - this gives him much better odds against an unreliable deck with a killer sideboard.

Dragon Stompy going #1 in a high-profile event such as this will be amazing.

[KillemallCFH]

So Nassif is up with 4C CounterTop against Dragon Stompy with 4 BOILS in the sideboard? He'll need both his proven skill and the favour of Satan to pull it off. Well, we know he has the former, and I'm pretty sure he has the latter, so I'm putting my money on Nassif.

[Pulp_Fiction]

I feel pretty confidant the winner of Andy VS Rietzl is going to win the whole thing.

[Kilz88]

Dragon Stompy going #1 in a high-profile event such as this will be amazing.

^^^Agreed^^^ I don't think Gab is expecting this harsh of a match-up. Also, I would bet he could have gone the entire tournament without playing against the deck yet. Im betting on Mink.

[Eldariel]

Much depends on whether Dragon Stompy decides to take a dump on him now or not.

[Silverdragon]

LSV plays quite a bit of Eternal. He isn't totally clueless.

I know, I first saw him on a photo over at TMD (coverage of a tournament, don't ask which one it was) before he waltzed through the competition at US nationals where I saw his picture again and thought "holy cow a Vintage player is going to win US nationals" XD

[Pulp_Fiction]

Does anyone know how Kowal lost, was it that BS about not revealing with Confidant? Then he crumbled to turn 1 Moon or something? I think he had the best deck in the top 8.

[nastynate]

LSV plays quite a bit of Eternal. He isn't totally clueless.

Never said he was. I said Nassif was totally clueless about what to side-board, so he loaded it up with random one-ofs hoping that he'd have something for any given match-up.

LSV and Nassif are two of the best players in the world. They aren't idiots, but that doesn't mean the side-board of Nassif's deck is a perfectly-tuned metagame smasher with a precisely planned strategy. It's got a little graveyard hate, a little artifact hate, some aggro hate, and a single enlightened tutor (which can grab more than half the cards in the board). That to me is a sign that the builder of the side-board wasn't particularly decisive about what he wanted or needed. This isn't a brilliant plan that us non-pros can't understand; it's a bad side-board.

[KillemallCFH]

Text from my brother: "Nassif kept a hand of 2 top, stp, 4 lands on the draw. turn 1 chalice, turn 2 magus, turn 3 slogger"

[nastynate]

Text from my brother: "Nassif kept a hand of 2 top, stp, 4 lands on the draw. turn 1 chalice, turn 2 magus, turn 3 slogger"

ouch

[Kilz88]

Text from my brother: "Nassif kept a hand of 2 top, stp, 4 lands on the draw. turn 1 chalice, turn 2 magus, turn 3 slogger"

YES! Fricken awesome. Couldn't have been better for Mink.

[Xeen]

ouch

qft! Thats gotta hurt .

Btw, the official coverage suxx big time atm :(

[KillemallCFH]

I'm going to die a little inside if Dragon Stompy wins the whole thing.

EDIT: Text from my brother: "Nassif boarded out a swords and a goyf and left CB in"

[anjo]

I'm going to die a little inside if Dragon Stompy wins the whole thing.

EDIT: Text from my brother: "Nassif boarded out a swords and a goyf and left CB in"

why? seems like a perfect deck against counter top..

[Xeen]

OMG, if Nassif really boarded like that he HAS no clue :(

[Ectoplasm]

I'm going to die a little inside if Dragon Stompy wins the whole thing.

Why? It's gonna be awesome and a proverbial fart in the face of the WotC coverage which has been hyping 'counterbalance decks' all week.

I mean, they even asked people about 'the best 2-drop in the format' just so they could put a picture of LSV there saying 'counterbalance'. How random is that question :rolleyes: Dragons carrying swords will be a nice contrast to this.

I love Nassif, but DS winning this event would be just too beautiful.

[Whit3 Ghost]

/facepalm.

[Maëlig]

Dragon Stompy going #1 in a high-profile event such as this will be terrible.
Corrected. As much as I love the deck, I don't want people to start thinking it's generally a good choice in legacy.

[klaus]

Text from my brother: "Nassif kept a hand of 2 top, stp, 4 lands on the draw. turn 1 chalice, turn 2 magus, turn 3 slogger"

LOL.

[KillemallCFH]

Why?Because I have talked so much shit about that deck and would've placed it pretty near the bottom of "decks I would predict to win the GP."

[Ectoplasm]

Corrected. As much as I love the deck, I don't want people to start thinking it's a good choice in legacy.

We're talking about dragons here.
Carrying swords

[Artowis]

OMG, if Nassif really boarded like that he HAS no clue :(

Why would he? I'm sure he's played this match approximately never.

[Frenger]

What the fuck is Nassif high?

[lolosoon]

EDIT: Text from my brother: "Nassif boarded out a swords and a goyf and left CB in"
Good, DS prey on CB. Time to learn how legacy works for my fellow frenchman.

But still, packing DragonStompy through a 15 round swiss tournament.

Man, he musts be confidant in his personal lucky star.

[Jak]

145 people viewing this thread. Shit.

[Ectoplasm]

Because I have talked so much shit about that deck and would've placed it pretty near the bottom of "decks I would predict to win the GP."

Wait.
You wrote that SCG article didn't you!
The one where you devoted a oneliner to dragon stompy :tongue:

[Kilz88]

Dragons carrying swords? Speaking of which, no SOFI/SOLS in that list. A solomn 2 jittes in the board. Weird.

[Tash]

145 people viewing this thread. Shit.

It could be because the wotc coverage blows.

[Artowis]

Wait.
You wrote that SCG article didn't you!
The one where you devoted a oneliner to dragon stompy :tongue:

I did, and I've already been proven wrong, wouldn't be the first time.

That said, I don't think anyone would've ever guessed that DS was going to be this close to winning the GP.

[IQQ]

It could be because the wotc coverage blows.

When has it been good?

[Ectoplasm]

Dragons carrying swords? Speaking of which, no SOFI/SOLS in that list. A solomn 2 jittes in the board. Weird.

Pointy sticks anyway :( I didn't bother checking out the list yet.

[Nihil Credo]

EDIT: Text from my brother: "Nassif boarded out a swords and a goyf and left CB in"

http://xs137.xs.to/xs137/09100/7521.gif


I mean, they do have All-In Red in Extended, right?

[klaus]

Even if DS wins this thing I'll still be getting rid of my DS stuff asap.

:tongue:

[Eldariel]

Why would he? I'm sure he's played this match approximately never.

Shouldn't be hard to figure out that Card That Does Nothing < Card That Does Something though. I mean, he's just about the best player on the planet; you'd expect that would be trivially obvious to him.


Dragons carrying swords? Speaking of which, no SOFI/SOLS in that list. A solomn 2 jittes in the board. Weird.

Pretty common for DS. The creatures are big enough by themselves and the deck really can't afford cards that do nothing alone as it doesn't draw cards.


I mean, they do have All-In Red in Extended, right?

No Counterbalance though. Don't think Nassif has ever tapped a Chalice either.

[Tash]

When has it been good?

Touche good sir. Touche.


I mean, they do have All-In Red in Extended, right?

Not anymore, thanks to Path To Exile, and well.. you know. Out of sight, out of mind.

[Pulp_Fiction]

I'm going to die a little inside if Dragon Stompy wins the whole thing.

EDIT: Text from my brother: "Nassif boarded out a swords and a goyf and left CB in"

Certainly supports the claims of everyone about Nassif not knowing the format. This is a common mistake, people who don't know much about legacy will keep in CB against decks like DS and Affinity simply because they are thinking "I know this card is good so I'm keeping it in" rather than making the correct decision.

And yes, WotC coverage sucks ass!!!!

[Artowis]

Shouldn't be hard to figure out that Card That Does Nothing < Card That Does Something though. I mean, he's just about the best player on the planet; you'd expect that would be trivially obvious to him.

Nassif does some odd things sometimes. Could be he's trying to just handicap himself like he did at Kyoto. Nassif enjoys a good challenge.

[KillemallCFH]

G2: "Turn 1 moon dazed, then goyfs and trygon own face. G3 starting soon"

[frogboy]

Counterbalance was good against Affinity in Extended last year; it's probably still fine in Legacy depending on what else you have to cut.

Also, most of the people in this thread seriously need to get over themselves.

[Nihil Credo]

Could be he's trying to just handicap himself like he did at Kyoto.
I don't get the reference. What did he do?

[Silverdragon]

Assuming he boarded in Energy Flux and KGrip (in fear of Chalice) he now has 7 3-drops to counter Moons, Trinis, Maulers etc. so there is some thinking going on but obviously he's overrating Chalice and underrating Boil here.

[Kilz88]

G2: "Turn 1 moon dazed, then goyfs and trygon own face. G3 starting soon"

Erg. Trygon seems good but whats he got? 2? Good luck with that. From what I hear he is lucky as hell though so...

[Artowis]

I don't get the reference. What did he do?

He had like 3 counters in hand in the finals vs. LSV in one game, but kept letting everything resolve for some unknown (at the time) reason. Commentators were joking that Nassif must just enjoy a good challenge.

[revenge_inc]

Is there a place to read or watch live coverage like justin tv or something?

[IQQ]

Dear Wizards,
Incorporate Twitter into GPs. Can you imagine the reaction to Nassif sideboarding from a person who knows Legacy? :eek:

Also, Nassif will probably win thanks to a hand of FoW and Daze, then lock it up with CB somehow.

[Pulp_Fiction]

Trygon Predator is tough to cast when all you have is mountains :)

[elof]

This thread is awesome! You can just refresh, read all the new stuff, refresh in all eternity :)

How is g3 going and does anybody know anything from the other game?

[KillemallCFH]

I was more surprised at boarding out StP then keeping in CB honestly.

VsTheWorld: "sb out one goyf, stp, shackles, for eflux and blasts. cb stays in again... DS mulls to 6 again... Mulls to 5"

[lolosoon]

DS mulls to 6 again... Mulls to 5"
Shit happens...

...it happens quite often with DS though. Come On !

ps: Oh, and thanx for the report and comments guys. You rock !

[Xeen]

DS letting its pilot down in the end @ mull to 5?

[thebadmagicplayer]

nooo! DS mulling= the lose :(

[Eldariel]

No surprises there. That's DS for you. That said, DS's 5 can beat any 7 with some luck.

[Ectoplasm]

OoOoO come on!
Dont fail now, dragon with pointy stick :(

[klaus]

Unanswered turn 1 Moon still wins, period.

[spirit of the wretch]

DS mulls to 6 again... Mulls to 5"

That's the manabase of the deck catching up with it. You really need balls to play a Chalice Stompy deck for 15 rounds at a GP!

[IQQ]

I was more surprised at boarding out StP then keeping in CB honestly.

VsTheWorld: "sb out one goyf, stp, shackles, for eflux and blasts. cb stays in again... DS mulls to 6 again... Mulls to 5"

Replace it for Blasts is fine. Since the Blasts are acting as double duty but Counterbalance on 3 takes away alot against DS. Assuming you "get there".

[thebadmagicplayer]

sometimes a pointy stick is all you need...

[Nihil Credo]

Unanswered turn 1 Moon still wins, period.
He'll hit two basic Islands into Sower of Temptation anyway :)

[Ectoplasm]

So what's going on?

[klaus]

That's the manabase of the deck catching up with it. You really need balls to play a Chalice Stompy deck for 15 rounds at a GP!

At least you don't get mind fucked by timeouts like those Landstill pilots...
or mind fucked by complex relativity when piloting Combo.dec

[Pulp_Fiction]

Coverage in the Kowal matchup is now updated, very unlucky. He had the match won but missed one of the triggers on his 2 Confidants in play with the win on the board and the score tied at 1-1. Thats rough man, I feel bad for him, best deck in the top 8. It happens :(

[Xeen]

At least you don't get mind fucked by timeouts like those Landstill pilots...


Guess you know something about that ;)

[KillemallCFH]

All I've got on g3 is "Raiders resolves turn 2, moon is blasted"

[Nessaja]

He'll hit two basic Islands into Sower of Temptation anyway :)

He should wait till he can cast chalice for 4 to counter that.

[Kitchen Table Hero]

omfg lol I just realized you have to click Day 2 blog to see what was posted since the top 8 started:
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpchi09/blog2

[Xeen]

Epic

[Frenger]

How can Kowal get away with listening to music during the top 8 of a GP?

[Kilz88]

How can Kowal get away with listening to music during the top 8 of a GP?

Because it allows him to miss confidant triggers and give games away.

[elof]

How's Nassif doing?

[IQQ]

How can Kowal get away with listening to music during the top 8 of a GP?

There was a conference, and the final ruling was given. Because Kowal had made the mistake in the match already, and had a further warning earlier in the tournament, the ruling was strict: Kowal would be awarded a game loss.

I don't feel bad at all for him. Nice IPod though.

[Enigma]

Do you guys info on TOP4 matchs?

I'm a bit disappointed that David has been stopped by such a weird deck as Nassif's brought.

Whatever, still nice to do top8, win 1000$ and earn an invitation to Pro Tour–Honolulu.

Gratz gooba!

PM

[Ectoplasm]

Because it allows him to miss confidant triggers and give games away.

A noble cause.

[Tash]

How's Nassif doing?

I think it's time to be patient on this one. I don't doubt we'll get a post with a lot of capital letters and exclamation points, whether Nasiif wins or loses, and not to mention whoever posts it will post it ASAP so they can be the one that said it first.

Heh. Internet people are funny.

[Artowis]

Guys, when we HAVE information I'm sure it'll be posted. Asking about it isn't going to make it come any faster.

Also, Andy won his semis. It'll be NLU BRASSMAN vs. whoever in the finals.

[thebadmagicplayer]

did mink lose?

[Ectoplasm]

Crossing my fingers for the pointy sticks

[Frenger]

There was a conference, and the final ruling was given. Because Kowal had made the mistake in the match already, and had a further warning earlier in the tournament, the ruling was strict: Kowal would be awarded a game loss.

I don't feel bad at all for him. Nice IPod though.

Cool? I asked about why he is allowed to listen to music during a match, not about his confidant shenanigans.

[Kilz88]

Cool? I asked about why he is allowed to listen to music during a match, not about his confidant shenanigans.

I was making what we like to call "a joke". Sorry if it was unfunny.

[Tash]

Cool? I asked about why he is allowed to listen to music during a match, not about his confidant shenanigans.

You're allowed to listen to music at PTQs and other tournaments, just as long as the music isn't distracting to anyone else in the game. If you miss anything though, it's your ass.

[Aggro_zombies]

Cool? I asked about why he is allowed to listen to music during a match, not about his confidant shenanigans.
The answer was because Confidant shenanigans ensued, so the judges figured it was safe because he couldn't have been cheating. If he'd been listening to music and won, there may have been problems.

[Artowis]

Cool? I asked about why he is allowed to listen to music during a match, not about his confidant shenanigans.

Because unless the HJ states otherwise, it's fine. He can choose to allow or disallow things like music players at his discretion.

[IQQ]

Cool? I asked about why he is allowed to listen to music during a match, not about his confidant shenanigans.

As long as you can communicate to your opponent the game states, etc., correctly and accurately you can do whatever you want.

[miro]

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 182

[KillemallCFH]

Nassif won.

[Eldariel]

Ouch. Damnit Nassif, which deity have you shagged this time?

[Kilz88]

Nassif won.

Boring.

[thebadmagicplayer]

no pointy sticks? :(

[Frenger]

Nassif won.

NLU mirror in the finals is weak. Hope Andy wins it.

[Atwa]

Nassif won.

Wow, that guy deserves to win the whole thing.

[Ectoplasm]

Nassif won.

:cry:
Oh man :(

[Pulp_Fiction]

If Nassif won, Andy is going to be the Legacy champion!!!

[Artowis]

And DS finally shat all over itself. Priceless.

Brassy vs. Nassif is an interesting contrast, one busted his ass off and put a bunch of work into the format (while playing Legacy for a while). While Nassif is... Nassif.

I mean I def. give the edge to brassy, but who knows.

[frolll]

OMFG Nassif is such a good player...

Anyway, that GP is gold. Thx WotC ^^

[Ectoplasm]

Well, Nassif is awesome and Andrew is a sourcer so whoever wins it's cool.
It just sucks that it has to be the boring deck that wins, in the face of POINTY STICKS

[KillemallCFH]

And DS finally shat all over itself. Priceless.I can't believe it took this long to do so.

[Pulp_Fiction]

He rarely loses the mirror, his deck is tuned in our meta cause people love to play ThreshThreshThresh. Most of his losses are to randon jank, Choke, and combo insanity.

[Nihil Credo]

Fortuna arridet amentibus Gallisque.
[Fortune smiles on the fool and the French]

Nassif vs. Brassman final? Fuck. And I wanted to go to bed early.

[Atwa]

Nassif vs. Brassman final? Fuck. And I wanted to go to bed early.

I feel your pain....... :wink:

[Aggro_zombies]

Nassif vs. Brassman final? Fuck. And I wanted to go to bed early.
Damn it, Andy had better win. The only pro I was remotely interested in didn't make top 8.

Can you get DQ'd for having a Faustian contract that lets you win all the time?

EDIT: Alternately, someone should start yelling, "CRUEL ULTIMATUM!" at a critical point in game 3 to break Nassif's concentration.

[Frenger]

Fortuna arridet amentibus Gallisque.
[Fortune smiles on the fool and the French]

Nassif vs. Brassman final? Fuck. And I wanted to go to bed early.

Seriously. but what's one more hour?

[conboy31]

Whats the projected sideboard plans for these guys?

[bruno_tiete]

Can you get DQ'd for having a Faustian contract that lets you win all the time?
If it can be proved, that's Outside Assistance. :)

[Atwa]

Seriously. but what's one more hours?

The difference between being able to function at work and waking up 2 hours late :)

[Kilz88]

Whats the projected sideboard plans for these guys?

Andy brings in Duress?

[Aggro_zombies]

If it can be proved, that's Outside Assistance. :)
Someone do some research on Nassif, pronto.

[etrigan]

Probasco v. Rietzl semi-final coverage is up.

Not up: Caplan v. Nassif =[

[Esper3k]

Made me sad not to see Eva Green vs Dragon Stompy in the finals :(

With Nassif's manabase, Dragon Stompy had such a good match up too!

[Pulp_Fiction]

In fairness, Andy is a notorious lucksack. I remember 1 match in particular (Andy was playing the same deck as he is now with diff SB who would have thought) and he countered KGrip 3 times blind, no setup Brainstorm a turn in advance and no Top in play. He is also a topdeck beast who draws the final StP in their deck with about 3/5 of their library left (still angry about that)!!!!

His luck + combo would be nearly unstoppable, good thing he prefers to play CB.dec.

[Nessaja]

With Nassif's manabase, Dragon Stompy had such a good match up too!

Dragon Stompy beat itsselve in that match I think =/. Own worst enemy.

[KillemallCFH]

Nassif wins it all.

[Kilz88]

Nassif wins it all.

Already?

[klaus]

Nassif wins it all.

wh.what?

[mercenarybdu]

Lille had 937 (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.aspx?x=mtgevent/gplill05/welcome) players. Columbus had 883 players and Philly had 495. Still, 937 players is nothing to sneeze it.

True, but then you have to factor in that fact that Invasion and Odyssey Blocks are no longer Extended Legal opposed to when Lille happened when they were still in there.

Anyway, 1230 is amazing. Although if Wizards were to make an analysis of the format right now, the accuracy isn't going to be that accurate. Because this is only one of two events (if you include the Championships at Gen Con), opposed to 5 to 6 to sculpt out the better picture.

[Eldariel]

Oh well, better lucky and good I guess...

[Artowis]

Apparently the games were just blowouts. Even coverage is updated already with the 2-0 result.

[Atwa]

Already?

Yes, wizards also has it on their site

[Nihil Credo]

Whats the projected sideboard plans for these guys?

Were I Brassman, I'd start with +1 Grip, -1 Needle. Then I'd consider the package {-3 Trinket Mage, +3 Duress} on the draw, mostly as a concession to Nassif's Dazes. But I think I'd ultimately reject it since Nassif's deck is close to kold to Academy / EE.

On Nassif's side, it's tougher because his maindeck has no bad cards. The Swords to Plowshares are the most likely candidate for being reduced in favour of (in descending order of likeliness) Grip, Threads, Tutor, Jitte.

EDIT: Whoa, it's over as I type?

[klaus]

lame. well anyway ggs"!

[Pulp_Fiction]

Yeah, Andy just lost :(

[Esper3k]

That was quick, must've been bad beats :(

[Pulp_Fiction]

Nassif got CB lock both games and lucksacked a few blind reveals into the win .... eh, my buddy just said luck pretty much decided the finals.

[Aggro_zombies]

Nassif got CB lock both games and lucksacked a few blind reveals into the win .... eh, my buddy just said luck pretty much decided the finals.
Disgusting. :mad:

[Frenger]

Yeah that's pretty disappointing. I was hoping the Eternal player would end up beating the pro.

[Rood]

NLU should be played more often in this format. It's extremely good no doubt I'm amazed that Brassman lost though. He seemed like he was going to take it down. Grats to Nassif

[godryk]

I felt something died inside us all...

[Artowis]

Although I'm disappointed Brassy didn't win, coming in 2nd at the largest American GP ever and only losing in the t8 to a top 5 all-time player is still pretty amazing. Andy can actually buy food now! :laugh:

[mercenarybdu]

MTGCast was on the ground. They were gathering coverage as well. They promised me video of the top 2, given that nothing went wrong with the equipment that they carried with them.

[DeathwingZERO]

???
It's not dumbing down the game, but giving a single, sensible interpretation to a shortcut commonly used. Why would you interpret "I play BS in resp to your spell" as "I let the CB trigger resolve, then play BS" (which is exactly what the judge did)?

Because people make mistakes in this game.

Long story short, if I trigger your Counterbalance and you do not say you are specifically responding to it, I will assume that you are responding to my spell, and will call a judge if you try to flip for Counterbalance after your spell resolves. And I'll be in the right every time. If the trigger is what you are intending to respond to, it's your responsibility to tell me that, not my responsibility to interpret it.

Very rarely will I agree to a shortcut that allows a player to be reminded that they made a mistake, especially a crucial one such as CB flips. Part of the physical card game is that it's not MTGO, and triggers are forgotten. Seeing that the flip for CB is optional, forgetting it is not a missed trigger/error in game state ruling, and I don't feel the need to remind the opponent of it every time. If it's not a big tournament, I'll sometimes do it to be sporting, but not at something like a GPT.

[Aggro_zombies]

So call me crazy, but I'm wondering: does Bitterblossom potentially have a home in one of these Counterbalance decks (what does "NLU" stand for anyway?)?

Here's my reasoning: most of these lists seem to pack Sower of Temptation and Shackles as removal. This dodges them both because it makes tokens every turn but is not itself a creature. The tokens fly, so they can keep a Trygon Predator off your Counterbalance indefinitely. It also makes your opponent's Grips much more precious, as now you're packing two different game-ending enchantments.

Also, since you have Top and ~20 lands, life loss from Bob draws should be minimal. BB won't put you on much of a clock most of the time.

Just wondering.

[Maëlig]

(what does "NLU" stand for anyway?)
Next-level blue, ported from extended.



Long story short, if I trigger your Counterbalance and you do not say you are specifically responding to it, I will assume that you are responding to my spell, and will call a judge if you try to flip for Counterbalance after your spell resolves. And I'll be in the right every time. If the trigger is what you are intending to respond to, it's your responsibility to tell me that, not my responsibility to interpret it.

I'll reformulate my question. Why should you assume that saying "I play BS in response" implies that both players have passed priority beforehand (for the trigger to resolve) if they did not expressively state so? It's a possible interpretation (although not the most obvious one), so I think it's a good thing that the HJ clarified things quickly.

[Muradin]

"Counterbalance/Top, a powerful combination of cards when joined by Force of Will and Tarmogoyf. But when all the smoke had cleared, the Top 8 was filled with multiple archetypes including Ad Nauseam Tendrils, Dragon Stompy, Threshold, and aggressive creature decks."

I think this means, hey guys, we don't ban anything, the format seems to be healthy to us. Actually I would have preferred if David Caplan had won the whole thing, but Top 8 at a GP is not too shabby either. Congratulations to all Source members who did well.

Just bad a deck with a sideboard containing 15 1-offs wins the whole thing.

[Jujuhawk]

Edit: Nvm. I can't read.

[Nihil Credo]

Long story short, if I trigger your Counterbalance and you do not say you are specifically responding to it, I will assume that you are responding to my spell, and will call a judge if you try to flip for Counterbalance after your spell resolves. And I'll be in the right every time. If the trigger is what you are intending to respond to, it's your responsibility to tell me that, not my responsibility to interpret it.

Here's the problem: when you play a spell and say "ok?", you are passing priority to your opponent while both your spell and the Counterbalance trigger are on the stack.

If your opponent then says "In response, Brainstorm", there is no rule anywhere by which the default interpretation of that phrase is "I'll let the first object on the stack resolve and then play Brainstorm in response to the next object on the stack" - which is good, because I hope you'll agree that it doesn't make much sense. Among other things, if your opponent let the Counterbalance trigger resolve, you would get priority back (assuming you played a spell on your turn), so he definitely could not be playing a Brainstorm at that point.

In fact, there's a rule that says the opposite. Have a look at the explanation for why you need to explicitly let a Demigod of Revenge trigger resolve before you can safely counter the Demigod itself: the same reasoning applies here.

That the Counterbalance trigger has a "may", and thus a default action of "do nothing", is irrelevant: it would only matter if the players skipped to resolving an object that was below the Counterbalance trigger (for example, a Reejerey trigger), in which case the default action would be taken. But unless the game state has already proceeded to a point where the trigger should no longer be on the stack, it doesn't matter whether there is a default action or not.


And with that, goodnight to everyone. Nice tournament.

[bowvamp]

My one groan about this thing is that they have got to quit it with the one-liners. We all know that Merfolk plays Relic MD.

[Soulles]

Do pros make sideboards with 1-offs because they are pro?

I really want to know what Nassif's sideboard done for him in this tournament.

I mean yes, you have an answer for everything, but it seems like you have this 1 outter for the royal flush draw :s

[Shugyosha]

"Lock in place, Nassif was content to pass the turn. When Probasco attempted to Krosan Grip, Nassif had his own on top to once again halt any gains from the Atlanta native."

He should have Gripped in response to the Confidant trigger and hope that Nassif hasn't found a second Balance yet. It's so obvious that there will be a cmc :3: spell on top if possible at end of Nassif's turn.

[Piceli89]

Bah.. I wanted a Sourcer to tear off those fucking "pros". It's hard to accept that hard training and having spent so much time on this site trying to find the "perfect" list, and the benefits of all the discussions have been beaten by random luck strokes, and a pathetic sb. But i guess that I'll be forced by someone to just shup up and quietly accept the commandment " He's a pro, he's uber-human,and us, as humans, can't understand his choices. But they'll be surely right".
Something inside all of us Sourcers has turned off.
But gorgeous tournament, after all.

The Dragon Stompy dude is my Next Hero. No lies 'bout it, he's been a fucking driller.

[kicks_422]

That's a great Top 8. Very diverse, as Legacy is, with perhaps all archetypes/strategies/whatnot represented. Awesome.

[Pulp_Fiction]

I felt something died inside us all...

Totally agree. Overall it was fucking great to see a legacy GP but in the end I think most of us are really dissappointed Nassif won with a deck sporting a highlander SB. Seems almost disrespectful in a way. I think we all really wanted someone who actually plays and understands the format to win ... but to no avail.

Either way, congrats to all the winners. Seriously-mad-uber props to Andy for placing 2/1230 and showing the quality of legacy players we have in Atlanta! Congrats man, well done :)

[Eldariel]

That's a great Top 8. Very diverse, as Legacy is, with perhaps all archetypes/strategies/whatnot represented. Awesome.

I'd say the big archetype missing is Control in general. Landstill, Dreadstill, etc. failed to break Top 8; same goes for Loam & Survival, midrange in general.

[kicks_422]

Hmm, right. But still, you have got to love the diversity in the T8, compared to the joke of a Hulk-Flash infested one.

[SpikeyMikey]

The idiot comment was more directed at bullshit like this. Don't talk about what pro's like or don't like when you don't know anything about them. People on this site aren't the only people that play legacy a lot. I'm personal friends with a few pro's and this is far from the truth. Rooting for the underdog or whatever is fine, but that's where you cross the line.

The only person crossing the line is you. Unbunch your panties and relax, nobody here is ragging except you, so chill.

[spirit of the wretch]

Oh well, the good old pro-bashing again... this elitist crap is getting boring!

Nassif is a really good player. In my opinion, that has to count for something. And he played a Highlander SB! How Awesome is that? Cudos!

In other news: despite the diverse Top8, in the finals there were the two CB.decs facing each other. Nothing to see here.

Anyway great tournament.

[rsaunder]

I'm really disappointed to see that none of the landstill guys made it all the way.

[SpikeyMikey]

Oh well, the good old pro-bashing again... this elitist crap is getting boring!

Nassif is a really good player. In my opinion, that has to count for something. And he played a Highlander SB! How Awesome is that? Cudos!

In other news: despite the diverse Top8, in the finals there were the two CB.decs facing each other. Nothing to see here.

Anyway great tournament.


Which is really surprising IMO. I only faced 2 thresh variants on day 1, and it really wasn't that populous. What I did see was a ton of Goblins. I didn't see one until round 9 (after I'd already scrubbed out), but it seemed like every table had at least a few lackeys in the red zone. The first thresh player I ran into I rolled over; I think the deck is a pretty good matchup for me. The second thresh player was a Sourcer (Ophidian) that smashed my face in. Gorgeous deck, probably worth considerably more than my car... All in all, I think it was a great tournament, I had a good time, and the field was incredibly varied.

[ForceofWill]

Sourcers in Top 64:

Force of Will (Dreadstill)
Konsultant (Landstill)
Goobafish (Canadian Thresh)

[Rood]

Sourcers in Top 64:

Force of Will (Dreadstill)
Konsultant (Landstill)
Goobafish (Canadian Thresh)
Also Rich Shay (TheAtogLord) took 12th with Dreadstill ftw.

[kirdape3]

Before everyone completely loses their minds about Nassif's sideboard (oh wait where am I...), keep in mind that it could be fairly represented as such:

1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Hydroblast
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Darkblast
1 Umezawa's Jitte

1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Energy Flux
1 Engineered Plague

1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Planar Void

1 Threads of Disloyalty
1 Perish

1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Krosan Grip

That sideboard now makes a little more sense, as you have a series of packages against Goblins, Enlightened Tutor to go find some bullets if you need them, three different cards to try to needle for Dredge (good luck there big guy!), some extra help in the mirror, and a little punishment for decks like Stax and Affinity that might have shown up.

As for Nassif's victory, don't you think it will help promote the format more if it's won by the best players as opposed to those who have put the most time in? Brassman, good man though he is, is nowhere in Nassif's class. The latter scenario just makes it seem like a WoW grind, whereas the former makes it into an actual viable format of Magic.

If something does get banned out of this format, it will be Sensei's Divining Top - for the same reason that it was banned in Extended. For right now I don't really expect it to - but Nassif did unintentionally draw twice on his rampage and there were a bunch of draws early on. As for the dominance of combo that would be expected, they'd have to fight through Stifle, Meddling Mage, Wasteland, and the whole host of obstacles that the format has. Good luck there - if the guy playing the obstacles isn't clueless that's going to be one tough mountain to climb. I don't think anything will change - but the sky won't fall if the obvious change does occur.

[FoulQ]

No matter what you guys say about Nassif being above us, he still had some weird sideboarding against DS.

[cdr]

Nassif is goddamned slow. He was even slower in the finals than he is normally, but he is goddamned slow.

[zer0style]

Are there going to be videos of feature matches or of the top 8 anywhere anytime soon? I would really like to see some of those.

[Bardo]

This thread has really taken a turn for the shitter. If you're speaking to one other person, please take it to PM. If you're not, be cool. I don't want to lock this and don't have the energy for mass-pruning it. In short, chill.


Edit - Nihil beat me to it. The point stands. Relax.

[bowvamp]

This GP deserves a montage. Cue the montage! http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoID=2013437553

[MULocke]

This might have been said already, and I apologize if it has. Just got home from Chicago.

First, GP Indy 2008 gets 1100+, the Chicago gets 1230, even for a format that a large amount of the magic community dislikes/doesn't play. These are both record-breaking numbers in North America. Wizards, does this tell you anything? Give the midwest more events and give legacy some backing!

[Omega]

Winning a big tournament like this can come down to these factors (and probably more)

1. "Skill"
General understandsting of magic's rules, of legacy (theorical knowledge or actual playing) and of cards will ensure superiority over an opponent who knows less.
Skill can also be known as the "how you play". But usually, the way you play depends on your knowledge of Magic, of Legacy (or any metagame), of the cards, etc.
Skill depends on experience too. Pros, even if they don't play Legacy (alot) have experiences that can come in handy.

2. Luck
No matter how good you are, if you are in a bad day, you won't win. Magic is a game of cards. A game of cards rely, by definition on luck.
Also, every deck have good MU and bad MU. If you get paired against bad MU, you are not lucky and might have some difficulty getting to the top.
Bad draws can also screw your game, etc etc.

3. Deck
If you are the best but play the worst pile, chances are that you will lose.

Nassif (I dont know him) is said to be a pro with a lot of TOP8 at GP, PT. He certainly has a lot of skill.
He can't control luck, but I am assuming that he had some good fortune.
He didn't built his deck. But seeing how most cards come from Extended, I am assuming that it wasn't hard for him to understand Legacy.

Now, is it a bad thing that Nassif won this 1230 Legacy? No.
Would it have been better if someone like Goobafish (David Caplan) won it? Maybe (well yes, since he is Canadian :))

Anyway, congratulation to everyone, and to David Caplan who proved us how powerful Tempo-Threshold is.

[FoolofaTook]

Nassif is goddamned slow. He was even slower in the finals than he is normally, but he is goddamned slow.

I still can't figure out why competitive Magic can't be played on a clock. It works for Chess it should work for Magic. Give each player 30 minutes to make his plays on the clock at the start of a non-top 8 round and let it go from there. Losses to players by the clock if they can't play in that time. Actual rounds would run more than an hour in some cases, due to the time spent sideboarding and shuffling, but it'd be close enough to maintain reasonable tournament progression.

I don't care if some decks are "slower" than others. If you're playing a slow deck and playing it slowly that should be a competitive disadvantage eventually leading to losses, not draws.

[Aggro_zombies]

1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Hydroblast
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Darkblast
1 Umezawa's Jitte

1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Energy Flux
1 Engineered Plague

1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Planar Void

1 Threads of Disloyalty
1 Perish

1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Krosan Grip

That sideboard now makes a little more sense, as you have a series of packages against Goblins, Enlightened Tutor to go find some bullets if you need them, three different cards to try to needle for Dredge (good luck there big guy!), some extra help in the mirror, and a little punishment for decks like Stax and Affinity that might have shown up.
Now that I've calmed down a bit:

Burrenton Forge-Tender is actually really interesting tech, since it gives white a good solution to turn one Lackey other than Swords (Isamaru is legendary and therefore doesn't count because you won't play four, making it harder to drop him turn one). Looking at the day two breakdown, Goblins seems poised to come back in a big way, so having answers to turn one Vial and Lackey might be increasingly important now. Forge-Tender also has the benefit of negating a Gempalm Incinerator cycling or allowing your Tarmogoyf to block a big Piledriver and live (block one guy with Forge-Tender and Piledriver with Goyf, damage on, sacrifice).

What's the difference in functionality that leads to the Hydroblast/REB split? I remember it being something obscure and mostly irrelevant.

Perish still seems bad in a deck where the biggest non-green guy is Sower of Temptation.

Also, I'm not liking Shackles in these decks. I understand why it's there and why you'd use it, but it just seems slow and clunky as hell. If you're in white as well as black, you've got access to all the best removal in the game. IMO cutting Shackles for something else seems good - if I go with the BB suggestion from earlier, I end up with:

// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [A] Underground Sea
3 [A] Tropical Island
2 [A] Tundra
2 [PT] Island (2)
1 [PT] Plains (3)
1 [PT] Swamp (3)

// Creatures
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
2 [DIS] Trygon Predator
2 [LRW] Sower of Temptation

// Spells
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [LRW] Ponder
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
2 [MOR] Bitterblossom

...and a sideboard. Thoughts?

EDIT: Also, this was a great tournament for the format, even if Nassif won it (I wanted local player LSV to take it, grrr!). Despite the occasional pro "Lol Legacy" quip, the repeated successes of large DCI-backed Legacy tournaments may beget more tournaments in the future. More exposure is just what the format needs, especially if it's going to stabilize into something approaching a manageable metagame.

Looking forward to the Flores analysis this Thursday, as long as he doesn't say anything totally retarded (the Worlds Legacy analysis was pretty good, though).

[Omega]

In a sense, a Legacy GP will bring the eternal crowd (that might not make the move for EXT or T2. I myself, will never play a T2 GP/PT. I wanted to make it to Chicago because of Legacy but had exams coming and im living in Canada.) and bring those who are seeking "glory" in Magic. (These one don't care about the format, they just want to win. I know some people like that. They will play all formats just to win).

T2/EXT GP/PT don't have such crowds right? :)

maybe Wizard will realize how popular eternal format like Legacy is

Robert

[Omega]

"// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [A] Underground Sea
3 [A] Tropical Island
2 [A] Tundra
2 [PT] Island (2)
1 [PT] Plains (3)
1 [PT] Swamp (3)

// Creatures
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
2 [DIS] Trygon Predator
2 [LRW] Sower of Temptation

// Spells
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [LRW] Ponder
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
2 [MOR] Bitterblossom"

I think 4c deck can't support that many basic land without risking sacrificing consistency.

About Bitterblossom : I think they are weak, realy weak. In this deck, there are 3 2cc drop. Goyf, Bob and CB. All are bombs that can change the board. BB doesn't do that. It takes a lot of time. I think the Shackles are way better than BB. But i can be wrong, i have never tested this deck :)

Im probably going to tune his deck a little bit. It sure looks like it has some potential

Robert

[Aggro_zombies]

About Bitterblossom : I think they are weak, realy weak. In this deck, there are 3 2cc drop. Goyf, Bob and CB. All are bombs that can change the board. BB doesn't do that. It takes a lot of time. I think the Shackles are way better than BB. But i can be wrong, i have never tested this deck :)
Shackles is slow as well and requires little to no interference with your land drops to be effective at stealing prize guys like Tarmogoyf. Bitterblossom is also slow, but doesn't rely on the opponent at all and can win if left alone. After you've got three guys in play, the damage your opponent experiences outstrips the damage you're taking from Blossom, and the tokens can always block.

Shackles can almost never come down early and may end up eating two turns to be effective.

Both bite it to Grip, but Bitterblossom leaves you with guys if they don't Grip it immediately, whereas losing Shackles gives them a guy back (or does nothing if they Grip it right away and you haven't activated it).

Essentially, both Shackles and BB are late-game bombs, but BB can come down early and start doing its thing while Shackles can't, quite.

[Isamaru]

I still can't figure out why competitive Magic can't be played on a clock. It works for Chess it should work for Magic. Give each player 30 minutes to make his plays on the clock at the start of a non-top 8 round and let it go from there. Losses to players by the clock if they can't play in that time. Actual rounds would run more than an hour in some cases, due to the time spent sideboarding and shuffling, but it'd be close enough to maintain reasonable tournament progression.

I don't care if some decks are "slower" than others. If you're playing a slow deck and playing it slowly that should be a competitive disadvantage eventually leading to losses, not draws.

That's an interesting idea, and a good point in that it doesn't make sense to purposely use round-time as part of your strategy (as Landstill does by trying to make sure to win the first game, which will mean the match, since the second game usually isn't finished).