GRAND PRIX: CHICAGO!!! - Live Coverage

[Bardo]

March 7 and 8, 2009

"Just a week after one of the most historic Pro Tours in the history of the game, history has been made again! Grand Prix-Chicago is the largest North American Grand Prix in the history of the game! Over 1,200 players have showed up to battle using the Legacy format at the Renaissance Hotel and Convention Center."

Actual turn out: 1230 players!

Results, articles and goodness here:

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpchi09/welcome

Discuss!

GP Trial Decklists (http://www.wizards.com/magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpchi09/welcome#2)

[KillemallCFH]

GP Trial Decklists (http://www.wizards.com/magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpchi09/welcome#2)I counted 3 Sourcers in there (there might've been more whose names I just don't recognize). Nice job!

[URABAHN]

I counted 3 Sourcers in there (there might've been more whose names I just don't recognize). Nice job!

Pretty good mix of decks from the Grinders. I'm a little surprised at the Faerie decks that are 7 cards removed from Extended. The Scepter-Chant deck running Standstill is cute, I don't know enough about Scepter-Chant to know if the inclusion of Standstill propels that deck to a new level. Other than that, I see lots of Dreadstill, Standstill, and Thresh. Anything weird jump out at the rest of you?

[mugs]

trail lists are up


most deck are the usual suspects but the variety of winning lists is cool

two scepter chant decks win trails?
and an interesting fairy stompy

[godryk]

I'm also pretty excited with the great variety of the decks from the grinders.

[KillemallCFH]

Imperial Painter taking a Trial down was pretty surprising. That deck seemed to have disappeared.

EDIT: For anyone who cares, VsTheWorld is 2-0 right now (zero byes).

[Jujuhawk]

Pretty good mix of decks from the Grinders. I'm a little surprised at the Faerie decks that are 7 cards removed from Standard. The Scepter-Chant deck running Standstill is cute, I don't know enough about Scepter-Chant to know if the inclusion of Standstill propels that deck to a new level. Other than that, I see lots of Dreadstill, Standstill, and Thresh. Anything weird jump out at the rest of you?

What. The faerie deck is completely dif. from standard faeries. It's playing force, snare, jitte, swords, bob, etc. Or maybe you mean ext, in which case, yes, it is close to the UB Ext faeries, but that's because it's just good cards + SSprites and blossoms.

[Ectoplasm]

So who are the sourcers? And what's their nickname on here? I'm pretty curious as to how the 'high-profile' sourcers are going to perform in the face of pro's like Nassif and LSV.

[URABAHN]

Dave Caplan = Goobafish
Daniel Signorini = Nitewolf9

Those are the only 2 I recognize.

[KillemallCFH]

Josh Cicio = wweenieking (not really an active poster, but he's local player, which is why I recognized him)

[Adan]

I also recorgnize Jaime Cano. I don't know him personally, but he has got 2 or 3 Top8 in France with 4color Landstill.

Not bad, he seem to have traveled a long distance to participate.

[godryk]

I also recorgnize Jaime Cano. I don't know him personally, but he has got 2 or 3 Top8 in France with 4color Landstill.

Not bad, he seem to have traveled a long distance to participate.

One of the most charismatic players from Madrid! He's registered in the Source as DuKeLiO.

[URABAHN]

Manuel Bucher thinks Faeries will win. Has he really been playing this format since Kyoto?

[mackaber]

I hope ya'll realize that this fantastic attendance means big things for Legacy's future. Seriously all 3 North American Legacy GPs had way above average rates of attendance. WotC just has to understand soon.

[Elfrago]

1230 players is awesome! Way more than GP Columbus.

[URABAHN]

I hope ya'll realize that this fantastic attendance means big things for Legacy's future. Seriously all 3 North American Legacy GPs had way above average rates of attendance. WotC just has to understand soon.

Didn't GP Lille have a great turnout as well?

[Bardo]

Didn't GP Lille have a great turnout as well?
Lille had 937 (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.aspx?x=mtgevent/gplill05/welcome) players. Columbus had 883 players and Philly had 495. Still, 937 players is nothing to sneeze it.

[jjjoness']

Bryant Cook is 2:0 right now. emidln is 1:1 I think.

[DeathwingZERO]

What about Pinder and his boys? I thought they were making it out.

[Bardo]

What about Pinder and his boys? I thought they were making it out.

He's at table 441, a few chairs away from Nightmare.

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpchi09/pair3

Pinder = James Hammer

The "who do you recognize? game" seems like too much of a pain in the ass here. That's a lot of people. :)

[KillemallCFH]

VsTheWorld is 3-0 now.

[aTn]

Why not make a list of names. Its pretty easy to navigate through the results with the edit-search function.

[KillemallCFH]

More updates from Mass crew:

Scott Blumenthal (VsTheWorld): 3-0
Ben Lukas (Forceofwill): 3-0
Josh Cicio (wweenieking): 3-0
Jared Lefkowitz (Jaynel): 2-1
Aaron Lefkowitz (b4ron): 2-1
Ben Nash (from Cairo): 0-2-1 drop

[DeathwingZERO]

Wow. I recognize a ton of the names, but not necessarily from being Source members. Seems a number of Pros and Semi-Pros decided to come out to this as well.

Hopefully we see something come of it. We just made history here.

[Seriously]

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpchi09/pair3


so how do those points work ? 6 points. 4 points, 3 points, 0 points etc ?

[KillemallCFH]

so how do those points work ? 6 points. 4 points, 3 points, 0 points etc ?A win is 3 points; a draw is 1 point; a loss is 0 points. So all the 6-pointers after round 2 are 2-0.

[Aj-capra]

Loool i've just read a future match (merf vs dredge)

Richard had no upkeep discard, instead choosing to draw a card and play a Gemstone Mine. Instead he discarded Golgari Thug and cast Breakthrough for one, netting a Narcomeba in the process, but not finding any more dredgers to rev his engine.

But the engine was almost immediately stuck in neutral, as the cagey Minnesotan revealed his maindeck surprise, Relic of Progenitus.

“Maindeck?!”
“Yeah, why not,” reasoned Sean.
“Wow. Bold.”

[Silverdragon]

If Counterbalance is a may trigger, does my opponent have to declare it going on the stack before he Brainstorms?” The judge ruled in Pat’s favor, meaning Irizarry couldn’t reveal from his Counterbalance.

!

Good to know :)
However I think the second time Chapin caught him was totally unnecessary because he could have "established" a shortcut for this type of situation (like saying "Ok from now on let's assume I choose to put the trigger on the stack automatically if I don't say otherwise").

[aTn]

Man I don't like Pat Chapin (see his feature match).

He was losing to CB and pointed out two times that his opponent forgot to say that CB triggers and then cast Braistorm or activate Top.

Pat was right (and I try to always mention the CB triggers), but enforcing rules in bad faith like that is annoying. Glad he lost.

I'd have to laugh also at Richard Feldman being surprised at Merfolk running Relic of Progenitus maindeck.

Oh yeah Richard, as you mentioned in the forums, you studied Legacy extensively before going to the GP...

Sorry to sound like a nitpicking adolescent...

[Tom709]

Rick Argiro (Jander78) 2-1
Geoff Smelski (Konsultant) 4-0
Bob Kochis (Raider Bob) 3-0

Team Left Field!!!!!!!!!

[Seriously]

A win is 3 points; a draw is 1 point; a loss is 0 points. So all the 6-pointers after round 2 are 2-0.

thanks. so if the player is listed as still having a bye for round 3, that means they havent played at all yet and have had byes for the first 3 rounds ?

[Mantis]

Pat is 100% right. If he wouldn't have called a judge and his opponent failed to find a 2 CMC spell, the opponent could have just said; 'Oh, well I don't reveal in that case' thus Chapin would miss out on free information.

Oh and LOL@FELDMAN! Played more than 1 Ichorid after all, after Zac Hill made a mockery of everyone posting in the SCG feedback forum. Basically it came down to how we even had the nerve to 'correct' a 'pro player', as we all had never acclomplished anything. And now he takes the advice of the Legacy players anyway, I love it :).

[Aj-capra]

Man I don't like Pat Chapin (see his feature match).

He was losing to CB and pointed out two times that his opponent forgot to say that CB triggers and then cast Braistorm or activate Top.

Pat was right (and I try to always mention the CB triggers), but enforcing rules in bad faith like that is annoying. Glad he lost.

I'd have to laugh also at Richard Feldman being surprised at Merfolk running Relic of Progenitus maindeck.

Oh yeah Richard, as you mentioned in the forums, you studied Legacy extensively before going to the GP...

Sorry to sound like a nitpicking adolescent...

If I got cb and my oppopent play a spell and I play a brain in response is obvious who I play it for put a just drop on top and if I haven't a just drop i can play fow or other counter.

bah...

[URABAHN]

“If Counterbalance is a may trigger, does my opponent have to declare it going on the stack before he Brainstorms?”

Wow! I'll have to remember this from now on. I think I'm usually pretty clear when I say, "With the Counterbalance trigger on the stack...I'll Brainstorm."

[godryk]

Man I don't like Pat Chapin (see his feature match).

He was losing to CB and pointed out two times that his opponent forgot to say that CB triggers and then cast Braistorm or activate Top.

Pat was right (and I try to always mention the CB triggers), but enforcing rules in bad faith like that is annoying. Glad he lost.

I totally agree, when I read that I inmediatly thought he was a complete jerk, specially in the second time.

[Aj-capra]

Bryant Cook suck :((

All pros 9 points:

- Nassif Grabiel
- Luis Scott Vargas
- Paulo Vitor Da Rosa
- Carlos Romao

Others?

[JeroenC]

Damn. I always thought Chapin looked like a fun guy, but anybody nitpicking on that kind of stuff loses a whole bunch of points in my book. Here's rooting for emidln, the only person I slightly know.

[bruno_tiete]

Pat is 100% right. If he wouldn't have called a judge and his opponent failed to find a 2 CMC spell, the opponent could have just said; 'Oh, well I don't reveal in that case' thus Chapin would miss out on free information.

I might be wrong, but I believe the choice to reveal or not is made upon resolution of CB's trigger. Therefore, the guy could stack CB, brainstorm and choose not to reveal a card.

What happened there is that optional triggers have as default "I put it on the stack and choose to do nothing" if you forget to mention otherwise. Even if mentioning, the guy would still get the choice later.
Pat was a little unpleasant, IMHO.

[godryk]

Bryant Cook suck :((

All pros 9 points:

- Nassif Grabiel
- Luis Scott Vargas
- Paulo Vitor Da Rosa
- Carlos Romao

Others?

Not to be mean, but getting 9 points with 3 byes isn't that much spectacular, now it's time for them to show what they've got.
:laugh:

[Hoojo]

I am a little curious about Feldman's deck; here he writes and article that you have to pay to read and touts a certain formula for a deck, then plays a different configuration as if he doesn't trust what he had written. It's a mirage, its SABOTAGE!

[Aj-capra]

Not to be mean, but getting 9 points with 3 byes isn't that much spectuacular, now it's time for them to show what they've got.
:laugh:


loool , I dont think this -.-"""

sry people :tongue:

[URABAHN]

I might be wrong, but I believe the choice to reveal or not is made upon resolution of CB's trigger. Therefore, the guy could stack CB, brainstorm and choose not to reveal a card.

What happened there is that optional triggers have as default "I put it on the stack and choose to do nothing" if you forget to mention otherwise. Even if mentioning, the guy would still get the choice later.
Pat was a little unpleasant, IMHO.

I'm wondering the same thing myself, the more I think about it. CB will trigger no matter what, right? Then when you resolve the trigger, that's when you decide to reveal. Is this wrong?

[JeroenC]

No, when the spell is played, you get the option to put the ability "reveal the top card of your library" on the stack. So Pat (and the judge) was right.

[Sims]

Hm... Brian Gustafson mentioned in the blog for Poor Nate Price.. Though there may be more than one Brian Gustafson there, that is Watcher487's carmate and a fellow Albany player.

Go Go Gadget Source-players!

[Mantis]

I might be wrong, but I believe the choice to reveal or not is made upon resolution of CB's trigger. Therefore, the guy could stack CB, brainstorm and choose not to reveal a card.

What happened there is that optional triggers have as default "I put it on the stack and choose to do nothing" if you forget to mention otherwise. Even if mentioning, the guy would still get the choice later.
Pat was a little unpleasant, IMHO.
You may be right, in that case I stand corrected and Pat acted like an ass. I must say that I hope this is not going to be a trend in Legacy tournaments from now on or they will be a lot more unpleasant.


Hm... Brian Gustafson mentioned in the blog for Poor Nate Price.. Though there may be more than one Brian Gustafson there, that is Watcher487's carmate and a fellow Albany player.Turn 2 Progenitus. Niceeeeeeee >_<!

[URABAHN]

No, when the spell is played, you get the option to put the ability "reveal the top card of your library" on the stack. So Pat (and the judge) was right.

If that's correct, then you cannot put the ability on the stack if you're not going to reveal anything.

[Corg]

Warning! Comp Rules ahead!


404.1. A triggered ability begins with the word “when,” “whenever,” or “at.” The phrase containing one of these words is the trigger condition, which defines the trigger event.

Whenever an opponent plays a spell, you may reveal the top card of your library. If you do, counter that spell if it has the same converted mana cost as the revealed card.


410.5. Some triggered abilities’ effects are optional (they contain “may,” as in “At the beginning of your upkeep, you may draw a card”). These abilities go on the stack when they trigger, regardless of whether their controller intends to exercise the ability’s option or not. The choice is made when the ability resolves. Likewise, triggered abilities that have an effect “unless” something is true or a player chooses to do something will go on the stack normally; the “unless” part of the ability is dealt with when the ability resolves.

Whenever an opponent plays a spell, you may reveal the top card of your library. If you do, counter that spell if it has the same converted mana cost as the revealed card.

I disagree with Pat and the Judge here. Bruno & URABAHN have it right. Nothing like 'Competitive' behavior that's off base - I hope this doesn't become a precedent for this event.

[MEATROCKET]

You may be right, in that case I stand corrected and Pat acted like an ass. I must say that I hope this is not going to be a trend in Legacy tournaments from now on or they will be a lot more unpleasant.

I'm sure this won't be happening in local events or casual play since it's very obvious that you meant to put CB's trigger on the stack. Having said that, though, Pat did not act like an ass. This is a Grand Prix. People should be playing their cards correctly. Pat made the right call by getting the judge.

edit: Even if Pat and the judge's ruling are wrong (as they may be, from the rules above this post), my point is that he wasn't an ass - it's a GP.

[Horror Business]

Alex Khanin aka sauce on the Source is 8-0 in games w/ 12 pts. A few other Texans got 9 points on byes. I'm feeling a Texan in the top 8...maybe...:tongue:
I wonder what Pat would have done atleast the second time concerning CB if he wasn't behind.
And turn 2 Progenitus! Wow!

[KillemallCFH]

VsTheWorld: 4-0.

[bruno_tiete]

Regarding the CB thing, the judge is not wrong. The orientation is that an optional trigger with a default action is not mentioned, the default action is taken. In Counterbalance's case, it's "do nothing". In Pacts case they are "Lose the game".
I believe it goes like this:

If CB triggers but you dont mention it, the rules presume you stacked it and chose to do nothing.

If CB trigger and you mention it, you make your choice on resolution.

If it was a mandatory trigger, it would be put on the stack and both players would be penalized.

Triggers always go to the stack. It's just that forgeting than is the specific shortcut for choosing the default action. ("Do Nothing" for CB)

Pat is "right" and so is the judge, but that is not very nice of him. He has the right no to be nice though.

[rsaunder]

Go BZK guys!

[georgjorge]

What are sauce, VsTheWorld and other Sourcers doing well right now playing?

Also, what's emidln's real name? I'd wish him making Day 2 so much...

[Aggro_zombies]

Who here is playing Aggro Loam? I want to see if any of the lists are doing well...the amount of Counter-Top mentioned leads me to believe there's a lot of Thresh, which is a pretty strong matchup for that deck barring the God Hand (tm) out of the opponent.

Pinder has six points as of round three, so 2-1? 593 place. What does "OMW% (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpchi09/stand3&tablesort=1)" stand for?

Opponent's Match-Win Percentage. It's part of calculating tie-breakers - Bardo
(EDIT: thanks.)

Also, Calosso is in third place after round 3?!

[DeathwingZERO]

With regards to CB, if you choose to declare a spell or an ability without specifically stating the trigger is still on the stack, it's as if you have decided not to use it, and it has resolved.

Ass or not, he's completely in the right to call the judge if the guy expects him to let him get away with that. I get faulted (and do the same) with opponents at weekly events all the time, let alone a GP.

If you aren't going to learn to play your cards correctly, don't play them.

[Mantis]

Opponent match win percentage.

Yeah you guys are right about Pat, it's a GP but I mean I hate Magic being about rules lawyering instead of clever playskill/deckchoice. That said, it's not necessarily wrong to be an ass.

[bruno_tiete]

Who here is playing Aggro Loam? I want to see if any of the lists are doing well...the amount of Counter-Top mentioned leads me to believe there's a lot of Thresh, which is a pretty strong matchup for that deck barring the God Hand (tm) out of the opponent.


I was told in a brazilian forum that 4 out of 5 Brazilians are playing 2 cards away from my list which Luiz De Michielli played at Worlds. Carlos Romão, De Michielli himself included. Paulo Vitor Damo da Rosa was the dissident.

I hope they do well even if most of them are not regular Legacy players.

[Jak]

Wow stop dissing on Chapin for knowing the rules. This is a big tournament so calling people on that stuff is supposed to happen.

[Aggro_zombies]

I was told in a brazilian forum that 4 out of 5 Brazilians are playing 2 cards away from my list which Luiz De Michielli played at Worlds. Carlos Romão, De Michielli himself included. Paulo Vitor Damo da Rosa was the dissident.

I hope they do well even if most of them are not regular Legacy players.
The Worlds list was mediocre, though. Are they at least playing real dual lands?

[URABAHN]

Wow stop dissing on Chapin for knowing the rules. This is a big tournament so calling people on that stuff is supposed to happen.

Really? Pat Chapin knew the rules? I thought we covered that earlier in this thread.

[bruno_tiete]

The Worlds list was mediocre, though. Are they at least playing real dual lands?

To my knowledge, yes. At worlds I lacked 2 Taigas. Thats why the list had a Stomping Grounds.

If you'd care to, I'd like to read your impression on it in a PM.

[Jak]

I keep reading about Counterbalance. I don't know how much of it is actually there but I have a feeling Legacy might see a banhammer.

[KillemallCFH]

Sourcers (or, in one person's case, ex-Sourcer) who are 4-0 right now (that I could recognize):
Rich Meyst (furt), Geoff Smelski (konsultant), Scott Blumenthal (VsTheWorld), Brian Deifendorf (Ewokslayer), Dave Caplan (goobafish), Dan Signorini (nitewolf9), Ben Lukas (Forceofwill), Calosso Fuentes (calosso).

Best of luck to everyone. Keep up the wins!

[diffy]

I keep reading about Counterbalance. I don't know how much of it is actually there but I have a feeling Legacy might see a banhammer.

Banning Counterbalance would be among the most stupid things Wizards could do - it's about the only thing that keeps combo in check right now.

Also, gogo Pros for walking into every Daze out there...

[emidln]

I'm 3-1, cappy is 4-0, bryant is 2-2

[JeroenC]

[quote]And since he’s Gabriel Nassif, he calmly untapped and played his third Sensei’s Divining Top.[/reply]

It's not that I don't think he deserves the victory. But these are the kind of moments in Magic that make my toes curl.

[Tom709]

Rick Argiro (Jander78) 3-1
Geoff Smelski (Konsultant) 5-0
Bob Kochis (Raider Bob) 3-1

Team Left Field!!!!!!!!!

[georgjorge]

GO emidln !

Konsultant is 5-0, and finished his fifth round quickly ? I guess he isn't playing his Landstill today then...

[JeroenC]

Here's rooting for you all the way from Belgium, emidln. I'm hoping one of your matches gets covered.
And then Brandon just won. No, don't ask me how. It just happened. I think it involved Doomsday. And yes, I had to look this card up.

Yeah, that's probably what it would sound like.

[miro]

41 Jacob, Michael A 12 vs. Signorini, Daniel 12

feature match here would be nice...

...but...

44 Romão, Carlos E 12 vs. Scott-Vargas, Luis D 12

[Corg]

Apologies to all, but I'm still working through the CB thing. What a delicate interplay between the comp rules and penalty guidelines!

Here's what I've got:

The CB triggers, and its controller puts the trigger on the stack. Then, because he said nothing about retaining priority before announcing Brainstorm/SDT, the shortcut, "Whenever a player adds an object to the stack, he or she is assumed to be passing priority unless he or she explicitly announces that he or she intend to retain it," kicks in. Then, after resolving the Brainstorm/SDT, the CB player moves to reveal the top card - which is when the Judge gets brought in. The Judge's investigation reveals that the shortcut has kicked in, and so the CB trigger has already resolved - both players passed priority, and then the Brainstorm/SDT was played. The Judge now has to resolve a Missed Trigger violation. Since it's a 'may' trigger, the situation is simple to handle - the CB player doesn't reveal and no penalty is issued.

I guess the “You forgot to trigger it again” quote in the coverage led me down the "Yes, of course it triggers, WTH" line of thinking. And now I realized that he was just taking a shortcut. :cool:

So, now my argument is reduced to bitching about competitive play at a competitive-level event, which we all know is a complete non-starter. :ug:

[Elfrago]

gogogo sourcers!

[Jak]

Banning Counterbalance would be among the most stupid things Wizards could do - it's about the only thing that keeps combo in check right now.

Also, gogo Pros for walking into every Daze out there...

Still, it is seeing a lot of play and I wouldn't doubt that Wizards could do something like it.

[Aggro_zombies]

Still, it is seeing a lot of play and I wouldn't doubt that Wizards could do something like it.
The DCI isn't completely full of retards (hopefully). Counter-Top isn't format warping in the same way that Flash or Skullclamp-powered Affinity were.

EDIT: "Finally, Conflux was spotted on the floor, but in a list of 68 cards. We’re pretty sure it’s not the hot new tech, but we applaud someone for trying."
PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

[RogueMTG]

Still, it is seeing a lot of play and I wouldn't doubt that Wizards could do something like it.

They did get rid of Top in extended... :cry:

Edit: Hopefully not is right

[JeroenC]

"Finally, Conflux was spotted on the floor, but in a list of 68 cards. We’re pretty sure it’s not the hot new tech, but we applaud someone for trying."
PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

This made me lol pretty loud as well. I hope we find this guy's list somewhere.

[bowvamp]

Lol, I so wish I could go to this GP. Bringing pox to a gp with a trial like that would practically be like slicing a butter knife through the meta.

[Aggro_zombies]

So does anyone else think Wizards may schedule yearly Legacy tournaments now, and/or give the format more official support? 1,230 people would seem to indicate that the format is well received if not somewhat popular.

[Bardo]

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpchi09/pair6

Anwar dropped and it's cool Pinder and Krieger travel half-around the country to play each other. Ewokslayer is playing at table 7. Brassman (Andy P) is doing great; Konsultant is kicking ass; Menendian took a tumble; Team Reflection is in good position to make Day 2 (Jesus Roxas (table 53); Rich Shay (87); Rich Mattiuzzo (80)); Di is playing at table 186 (not terrible); Jesse Hatfield (Mad Zur) is much worse off. Dave Elrod (table 121) is a couple spots down from Ob Freely (table 113).

[Angel of Despair]

Glad to see a number of new england/new york people doing so well.

[Zach Tartell]

I just control+f'd on that page and found everybody I care about. What are some other people's names that I might care about?

[Mystic]

Griffin Peets from Team Insight 5-1.

[Pulp_Fiction]

Unfortunately Andy Probasco is doing really good. I scrolled through that list for names of people I recognize but its a long motherfuckin' list! Good times for legacy, maybe Wizards will actually start showing this format some love!

Adrian Alatorre, Thor Boggs, and Chris Zack are doing good, all from the Atlanta area.

Does anyone know how the Source's favorite combo players are doing? Bryant was 2-2 someone said a while back and emidln was 3-1 but I couldn't find his name on the list.

[georgjorge]

Steve Sadin, winner of GP Flash, is at 3-2 (and I assume he had three byes).

"Who cares?"

[Zach Tartell]

Wowelko, Cook, Barnello, Abold, Howland, Artese are all x-2 or worse.

[PhanTom_lt]

Isamaru (Stephen Judd) is at 7 points after 5 rounds.

[KillemallCFH]

VsTheWorld dropped his last match and is 4-1. Ben Lukas is 5-0. Aaron Lefkowitz is 3-1-1; Jared is 3-2-0. Tom Macdonald (J.V.) went 1-3 drop. After winning 3 byes yesterday, Josh Cicio is 4-1.

[Kitchen Table Hero]

Steve Sadin, winner of GP Flash, is at 3-2 (and I assume he had three byes).

"Who cares?"

At this point I would also like to point out that Manuel "I predict Faeries will win!" Bucher is at 4-2 with 3 byes.

lol.

If that guy is there day 2 it will be a sad day for all those that actually care about the format.

[Aggro_zombies]

Isamaru (Stephen Judd) is at 7 points after 5 rounds.
That's what happens when you play a bad deck.

Maybe now he'll finally acknowledge that Hunter Horror is strictly worse than Dreadnought?

[Nihil Credo]

Steve Sadin, winner of GP Flash, is at 3-2 (and I assume he had three byes).

"Who cares?"

That was Gadiel Szleifer, not Sadin.


At this point I would also like to point out that Manuel "I predict Faeries will win!" Bucher is at 4-2 with 3 byes.

lol.

If that guy is there day 2 it will be a sad day for all those that actually care about the format.

I think Bucher was joking, as he's a huge Faeries player in T2 (and I think Extended too).

[Gaius Darkfire]

Nice to see Pimm doing so well, although I'm sure starting with two byes really helped. Shame brinner and bernier were knocked out so early, though.

[Finn]

I actually liked what Sadin had to say about Legacy last go-round. I was kinda hoping he would do well again.

[KillemallCFH]

Round 7 pairings are up. It looks like Dave Caplan is the only one repping The Source in the 6-0 bracket. Rich Meyst, Phil Stolze, Ben Lukas, Scott Blumenthal, Alex Hatfield, Rich Shay, Calosso, Brian Deifendorf and Geoff Smelski are all still going strong at 5-1.

[Apex]

Isn't emidln's real name Brandon Adams? If that's the case, he's 4-2 and going up against Jaime Cano in round 7.

What kind of record do you need to get into day 2? Wouldn't the cut-off be much harsher with 1200+ people?

[Artowis]

All X-2 will make day 2, but considering how many people that will be, anyone remaining at X-2 w/o ridic good breaks of will have some major problems hitting the money. At this point we're guesstimating 13-2 makes T8 and with possibly 12-2-1 w/ great breaks sneaking it.

Basically if you make day 2 and didn't have 3 byes, prbs screwed unless you go on an insane run.

[KillemallCFH]

No matter how many people there are, X-2-0 automatically makes Day 2.

[saspook]

Isn't emidln's real name Brandon Adams? If that's the case, he's 4-2 and going up against Jaime Cano in round 7.

What kind of record do you need to get into day 2? Wouldn't the cut-off be much harsher with 1200+ people?

X-2 is auto day 2.

and after X-2-1 and X-3 made GP LA by being in the top 128 of a 800+ person event, you can bet that people will be a lot more careful with their drops / conceding.

[KillemallCFH]

VsTheWorld wins his Round 7 match to put himself at 6-1.

EDIT: Woohoo. Feature match with Dave Caplan is up.

[Apex]

Oh snap! That was some awesome play with Submerge.

I'd gladly root for any player that beats in GerryT's face, Dave being the person made it even better. He's even Canadian! That's just gravy.

[KillemallCFH]

LOL. The guy behind and to the right of Caplan wearing a black hoodie in the photo is Ben Nash (from Cairo on The Source).

EDIT: w00000t. VsTheWorld is 7-1, and making it to Day 2.

[Jujuhawk]

At this point I would also like to point out that Manuel "I predict Faeries will win!" Bucher is at 4-2 with 3 byes.

lol.

If that guy is there day 2 it will be a sad day for all those that actually care about the format.

Pretty sure it was a joke, and I love how this thread is everyone rooting for sourcers and hoping all the pros die. You guys are all idiots.

[FoulQ]

Pretty sure it was a joke, and I love how this thread is everyone rooting for sourcers and hoping all the pros die. You guys are all idiots.

Agreed. We should root AGAINST the people who work hard learning the format like ourselves, and FOR the people who show up and expect to win like any other GP.

[Aggro_zombies]

Catching up on the coverage, and jeez...almost every pro in the room seems to be playing black-splash Threshold. I'd really like to see some of these lists.

[jakolhops]

Why wouldnt we root for the sourcers? This would be mtgTHESOURCE.com

And most people tend to root for the underdog, so IE rooting against the pros.

[KillemallCFH]

Pretty sure it was a joke, and I love how this thread is everyone rooting for sourcers and hoping all the pros die. You guys are all idiots.Rooting for your home team makes you an idiot?

I'm not really sharing in the anti-pro sentiments, but it is pretty obvious why people want Sourcers, who dedicate most of their magic-playing life to Legacy, to win, and Pros, who don't really give a shit about the format, to fail.

[Aggro_zombies]

Rooting for your home team makes you an idiot?

I'm not really sharing in the anti-pro sentiments, but it is pretty obvious why people want Sourcers, who dedicate most of their magic-playing life to Legacy, to win, and Pros, who don't really give a shit about the format, to fail.
Luis likes Legacy. :frown:

[saspook]

LSV is playing Rich Shay this round in the 6-1 bracket, hopefully it is the featured match on the website.

[Aggro_zombies]

LSV is playing Rich Shay this round in the 6-1 bracket, hopefully it is the featured match on the website.
Do they do people twice for featured rounds? LSV already was in a featured match (which he won).

[Jujuhawk]

I'm not really sharing in the anti-pro sentiments, but it is pretty obvious why people want Sourcers, who dedicate most of their magic-playing life to Legacy, to win, and Pros, who don't really give a shit about the format, to fail.

The idiot comment was more directed at bullshit like this. Don't talk about what pro's like or don't like when you don't know anything about them. People on this site aren't the only people that play legacy a lot. I'm personal friends with a few pro's and this is far from the truth. Rooting for the underdog or whatever is fine, but that's where you cross the line.

[Lifeless]

Feature Match 8 participants Gavin Verhey & Michael Jacob:

Joking about the format or total assholes?

[Aggro_zombies]

The idiot comment was more directed at bullshit like this. Don't talk about what pro's like or don't like when you don't know anything about them. People on this site aren't the only people that play legacy a lot. I'm personal friends with a few pro's and this is far from the truth. Rooting for the underdog or whatever is fine, but that's where you cross the line.
Well, he has a bit of a point when the pros say things like:

Despite their success, neither player was particularly enthused about the format.

“All the decks in legacy suck,” said Michael.
“It’s true,” quipped Verhey.
“All my extended decks could beat all these legacy decks.”
“It’s true, I built a faeries deck that was almost Extended Faeries.”

[Zach Tartell]

MTG The Source: Your Source for Idiots

[jakolhops]

I was about to copy/paste that exact same thing and be like LOL guess we do know what they dont like.

[Apex]

hatehatehatehatehatehate :tongue:

WotC coverage is just throwing fuel to the fire to you guys' arguments.

I personally root for the people that I (kinda) know (or are nice people), and against people that are dicks (or at least behaves as such), pro or not.

[URABAHN]

James Buckingham (dunno his Source name) has 18 points going into Round 8

TOOL, Ewokslayer, ObfuscateFreely, jrp, Beastman, The Exiled Machinus, legacyplayer0, Kenny Mayer (dunno his Source name), Calosso, Smennen, Krieger, and Lam Phan all have 15 points.

Mad Zur has 9.

Looks like nitewolf9, Deep6er, and Quicksilver have dropped.

[Lifeless]

I can actually picture them saying it and then checking forums later to see people argue about it. I would do that shit given the chance. That's mighty good trolling without even having to post. It's funny as hell to say that then cast Survival....

[KillemallCFH]

The idiot comment was more directed at bullshit like this. Don't talk about what pro's like or don't like when you don't know anything about them. People on this site aren't the only people that play legacy a lot. I'm personal friends with a few pro's and this is far from the truth. Rooting for the underdog or whatever is fine, but that's where you cross the line.I wasn't talking about whether or not they like Legacy, I was talking about whether they gave a shit about it or put any time into it, which most of them don't. And they shouldn't - playing a lot of Legacy isn't what's going to make them money.

[Peter_Rotten]

Despite their success, neither player was particularly enthused about the format.

“All the decks in legacy suck,” said Michael.
“It’s true,” quipped Verhey.
“All my extended decks could beat all these legacy decks.”
“It’s true, I built a faeries deck that was almost Extended Faeries.”

Well, those two are playing Survival vs Landstill. Now wonder they hate the format.

[Aggro_zombies]

I love how, every time there's a big Legacy event, the thread tracking the live coverage of it degenerates into a Pros vs. Joes argument within a couple pages of the beginning.

I mean, seriously guys? Just let them play some Magic.

[Jujuhawk]

hatehatehatehatehatehate :tongue:

WotC coverage is just throwing fuel to the fire to you guys' arguments.

I personally root for the people that I (kinda) know, and against people that are dicks (or at least behaves as such).

Just because michael jacob is an asshole doesn't mean pro's don't care about this format. Jacob's statements don't do many people justice really. Pro's care about whatever format the next big tournament is, and just because they don't test year round for an irrelevent format doesn't mean they don't care about it. To pro's legacy is pretty much as relavent as other formats, as what matters is the next big event, but the difference is this is once or twice a year.


I wasn't talking about whether or not they like Legacy, I was talking about whether they gave a shit about it or put any time into it, which most of them don't. And they shouldn't - playing a lot of Legacy isn't what's going to make them money.

Again, you're making the generalization that they aren't putting time into it. You know that sourcers aren't the only ones that spend a lot of time on legacy right?

[URABAHN]

Krieger, ObfuscateFreely, and Tool are 6-2, Ewokslayer lost in Round 8, so did Calosso, and Sourcers play more Legacy than anyone.

Krieger gets a chance to knock Owen Turtenwald out of contention. Ichorid vs. Goblins.

[Artowis]

Brassman might make a run at 9-0 with his own deck. So sick. Shay sadly lost to LSV, but here's hoping he makes day 2 as well.


Props to all the west-coasters kicking ass as well. Nice to see people other WC eternal players other than LSV making an impact.

[KillemallCFH]

Brassman might make a run at 9-0 with his own deck. So sick. Shay sadly lost to LSV, but here's hoping he makes day 2 as well.


Props to all the west-coasters kicking ass as well. Nice to see people other WC eternal players other than LSV making an impact.What's Brassman's name?

Andy Probasco. - Bardo

[jakolhops]

What's Brassman's name?

And Whats his "own" deck?

[Artowis]

Andrew Probasco, he's playing his slow CB deck unless he completely audibled at the last second. An older version is on deckcheck under the GPT results Jesus Roxas won.

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=23699

[Fuzzy]

Andy Probasco playing a kind of Next Level Blue.

[URABAHN]

Round 9 Feature Match Lesson
Extirpate is bad

[Aggro_zombies]

Round 9 Feature Match Lesson
Extirpate is bad
Heh, I was just reading that. Extirpating Top and Force and still getting his ass handed to him, that had to hurt. Still, that game three loss was just bad luck.

[URABAHN]

Heh, I was just reading that. Extirpating Top and Force and still getting his ass handed to him, that had to hurt. Still, that game three loss was just bad luck.

Extirpate was probably a SB card, right? I want to know what his thought process was to bring it in against Faeries. You just grab the first thing that hits the yard? I'm playing an aggro deck with Figure, Mom, and Jotun Grunt and I'm paired against Faeries. Lemme board in those Extirpates!

[Artowis]

Brassy went 9-0 d1, shay made d2 @ 7-2. Sick.

[URABAHN]

I don't see too many familiar names from the Source and Source-related events with 21 or more points

Beastman, Jeff Folinus, Shay, Smelski, James Buckingham, Dave Caplan. Maryland is doing a fine job of representing the Mid-Atlantic and Dave Caplan is on FIRE!

[Madmaniac21]

FoW is sitting in 20th at 8-1.

[Aggro_zombies]

Extirpate was probably a SB card, right? I want to know what his thought process was to bring it in against Faeries. You just grab the first thing that hits the yard? I'm playing an aggro deck with Figure, Mom, and Jotun Grunt and I'm paired against Faeries. Lemme board in those Extirpates!
He was probably hoping to hit Counter-Top components because getting slowed down by the lock would be deadly to him (see: game three).

LSV in eighth, RAH RAH GO GET 'EM LUIS!

[Whit3 Ghost]

Dave is the fucking man.

[KillemallCFH]

Sourcers I recognized going onto Day 2:

10 Caplan, David M 24 76.54%
20 Lukas, Ben S 24 68.84%
50 Smelski, Geoffrey T 21 74.07%
52 Shay, Richard J 21 73.77%
67 Meyst, Rich A 21 69.32%
99 Blumenthal, Scott T 21 62.19%

Congrats and good luck to all of them!

[Aggro_zombies]

Alix Hatfield has 18 points, so...6-3? Does he make the cut, or is it 7-2?

EDIT: Never mind, it's X-2. Damn, I was hoping the Progenitus Threshold guy would make it to day 2.

EDIT 2: When do lists start going up?

[Pinder]

What about Pinder and his boys? I thought they were making it out.

None of us ended up making day 2. I ended up 3/3 (getting knocked out by Krieger playing Ichorid), Tosh got knocked out 7ths round with a 4/3 record, and Maverick ended up 3-2-1. Mav and I were both playing essentially the same list of Landstill (except he had Exatled Angel where I had Elspeth), and Tosh was rolling with OMGICNQBINTF (Oh My God I Can't Not Quite Believe It's Not The Fear).

Overall, not a terribly impressive turnout from the West Coast. At least we get to drink tonight :).

My losses were to some random mono-black jank in the first round (4 Factory, 4 Mutavault, and 4 Bitterblossom make Standstill the worst card ever), then I clean house until my second loss, ironically to (are you ready for this?) 4c Meathooks. Yeah, I know. I keep winning (unfortunately taking birdman out of contention despite my best efforts at punting the match), and end up on the receiving end of some Krieger-style Ichorid beatdown. Oh well. There's always drafting.

So far, I've added birdman, scrummdogg, Di, Bryant, bigbear, Jander, Nightmare and probably some others I'm forgetting to my list of Sourcers that I've met in person. All nice guys (although Nightmare did sac tap me).

Oh, and like twenty high fives from Gearhart.



EDIT: Never mind, it's X-2. Damn, I was hoping the Progenitus Threshold guy would make it to day 2.


Nightmare was playing a UWg Progenitus Thresh list, and last I heard he was 5-2 after the 7th round.

edit - Nevermind:
97 Wice, Alex Won 2-0 vs. Barnello, Adam

:/

edit2 - From looking at the standings after round 9, the Sourcers who made day 2 (at least, the names I recognize) are goobafish, ForceofWill, and konsultant.

Also, apparently Tomoharu Saito is all the way here from Japan?

[jazzykat]

Wow, of the many sourcers went it's sad that so few made day 2.

[konsultant]

Wow, of the many sourcers went it's sad that so few made day 2.

This is one hell of a tournament, the level of competition is incredible and without any breaks in a 12 hour day playing anything at this level of competition is more than wearing. Even with the large turn out of source players they are only a small percentage of the 1230 people that showed up. Other than myself, Goobafish and Force of Will I don't know of any other source players making day 2.

[Seriously]

is there a list of who won/lost in the 9th round ?

[Aggro_zombies]

is there a list of who won/lost in the 9th round ?
This one? (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpchi09/res9)

[Seriously]

This one? (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpchi09/res9)

yeah, cool, thanks. couldnt find that anywhere. so.....

Caplan, David M Lost 0-2 vs. Probasco, Andrew

probasco won that last round and caplan lost ?

[irrelevant]

man i ended up playing a bunch of sourcers this tournament. round 1 i played mossivo1986, round 5 mad zur and round 6 Jander78 to bad i ended up finishing 3-3 and dropping

[T00L]

Krieger, ObfuscateFreely, and Tool are 6-2, Ewokslayer lost in Round 8, so did Calosso, and Sourcers play more Legacy than anyone.

Krieger gets a chance to knock Owen Turtenwald out of contention. Ichorid vs. Goblins.

Out of curiosity who do you think I am?

[Rehallek]

MTG The Source: Your Source for Idiots

Rockout says 'Zach Tartell. win.'

[ForceofWill]

W00t day 2 8-1 my total rating is like over 2000 right now.

[Jak]

Out of curiosity who do you think I am?

He is talking about another Tool.

Sounds sweet guys. The coverage is pretty good.

[Rood]

W00t day 2 8-1 my total rating is like over 2000 right now.

I'm counting on you to take it home with Dreadstill dood.
=P

[georgjorge]

No emidln feature match goodness I guess :frown:

Anyway, I wouldn't be too disappointed if only few Sourcers make it. I guess most of them don't have three byes, and that IS a huge disadvantage. Having to go 4-2 is a bit easier than going 7-2.


EDIT: I strongly advocate not making any more CBalance semi-mirrors into feature matches. They're not exactly exciting to read (I want to see Dragon/Faerie Stompy beating up those lists!). Some interesting card choices were seen though...Wasteland in 3c-Survival and in CBalance Thresh, UW Landstill with tutors and Tops, Thirst for Knowledge in Faeries, and as mentioned boarding in Extirpate against Faeries.

[Mantis]

My buddy Duncan is 7-1-1 with Progenitus Thresh! Way to represent The Netherlands man! (hes probably the only dutch guy in conention). Hopefully he can knock out Gabriel Nassif next round.

[godryk]

As far as I now, only 2 spaniards made it to day two, and we're specially proud of Raul Talavera who ended day 1 with a nice 8-1 performace.

But my real favorite is Caplan, go and crush all those CB pro decks! Just in case Wizards is wondering about banning Top!

[FredMaster]

So where are the results?

[Eldariel]

No coming home without GP win. I've been talking to Nihil and he's agreed to ban everyone who doesn't win the tournament (save for admins of course, for obvious reasons).

Also, there's at least one Faerie Stompy in day 2 (Fredrick Chang). Which I suppose is good news.

FredMaster: http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpchi09/welcome

[PhanTom_lt]

How much time left until Day 2 starts? I'm anxious to see what Gaudenis (current 1st place) is playing.

[Hof]

So does anyone else think Wizards may schedule yearly Legacy tournaments now, and/or give the format more official support? 1,230 people would seem to indicate that the format is well received if not somewhat popular.
Sorry, but no. They might act excited for a little while, maybe mention that they are 'considering more support', but internal company policies will kick in. That means, Legacy is not a booster selling format, and as such it should not be promoted beyond what is absolutely necessary to keep people interested. 2010's GP schedule will feature one Legacy GP (possibly in Europe). And, there will be some additional minor "support" (like Legacy at Worlds). That's it. All I am saying is: don't get your hopes up - this far from the first time players have demonstrated massive support for Legacy, but there are larger forces at work.

Having said all that, congratulations Chicago for the great showup!! It is an exciting time for Legacy players worldwide.

[FredMaster]

FredMaster: http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpchi09/welcome

Either I am too dumb or the are just no Day 2/Top 8 results.

[cdr]

Day 2 does not start until 9AM central, which is not for another half an hour.

[Peter_Rotten]

Sorry, but no. They might act excited for a little while, maybe mention that they are 'considering more support', but internal company policies will kick in. That means, Legacy is not a booster selling format, and as such it should not be promoted beyond what is absolutely necessary to keep people interested. 2010's GP schedule will feature one Legacy GP (possibly in Europe). And, there will be some additional minor "support" (like Legacy at Worlds). That's it. All I am saying is: don't get your hopes up - this far from the first time players have demonstrated massive support for Legacy, but there are larger forces at work.

Having said all that, congratulations Chicago for the great showup!! It is an exciting time for Legacy players worldwide.

But at the same time, they may consider making more Legacy playable cards, which could sell more boosters to a market that doesn't buy that many boosters. Wishful thinking?

[Maëlig]

Regarding the CB trigger issue :

Editor’s Note: After the match, the ruling regarding Counterbalance was brought to the attention of head judge Jason Ness. He issued a corrected version of the ruling that will allow players to trigger their Counterbalance even if they’ve used abilities or played cards in response to a spell without specifically pointing out that they’re leaving a Counterbalance trigger on the stack. (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpchi09/welcome)
I guess that clears things up. Props to judging contradiction, though.

[JeroenC]

But at the same time, they may consider making more Legacy playable cards, which could sell more boosters to a market that doesn't buy that many boosters. Wishful thinking?

I'm also hoping there's going to be an increase in Legacy activities, but I'm afraid that would also "force" WotC to increase the number of circulating copies of a couple of staples- which is something they obviously can't do.

[Mantis]

I'm also hoping there's going to be an increase in Legacy activities, but I'm afraid that would also "force" WotC to increase the number of circulating copies of a couple of staples- which is something they obviously can't do.Actually that would be pretty awesome. If they reprint the Legacy staples into a new set that's not Standard/Ext legal, they would sell packs, thus make profit and make Magic players around the globe happy as they can play the best format in this game with something on the line.

[JeroenC]

And all of our duals/Forces/whatnot would probably take a plummet in value. Not too much, but I think people who have an entire set of Revised duals would lose at least 100$ in value. I'm no expert on these matters, though.

[Mantis]

The value of goods is determined by demand and offer. If they keep that ratio the same prices should not go up or down, but yes it's a hard thing to do and I'm not sure if it's even allowed.

[JeroenC]

Increasing the offer will obviously decrease demand. Also, all of our staples (I'm pretty sure) are on the reserved list. Not seeing print, that means.

[Rehallek]

rockout says: Geoff take it home for us landstill players.

[Mantis]

Increasing the offer will obviously decrease demand. Also, all of our staples (I'm pretty sure) are on the reserved list. Not seeing print, that means.
Look, if they hold Legacy PTQs and PT's that would mean theres more demand, thus prices go up. Then if they print extra's prices go down again to their normal level.

Reality check. I'm just daydreaming, you are right the cards on the reserved list, will never see reprint. Legacy PT's will probably never happen.

[klaus]

Good luck to the last men standing!
Damn I wanted to be there so badly!

[KillemallCFH]

VsTheWorld wins his first round of Day 2, and Forceofwill gets stomped by LSV. Both are 8-2 now.

[Shugyosha]

Being on the reserved list does not mean that WotC won't reprint them. As the last year has shown they can and will pretty much change everything they want if they think it will yield $, err... I mean help the game. It is indeed very unlikely but everything is possible with WotC.

@Topic: The two germans I know missed Day 2 with 20/19 pts.

Go go Caplan... go go TempoThresh

[Mantis]

My buddy Duncan is 8-1-1 ATM, he's going to sweep this tournament with an excellent metagamed build.

By the way, what will likely be the cutoff for T8? I'm thinking 12-2-1 with good tiebreakers and up or something? Or will it be it be 13-2? Or am I completely off?

[Aj-capra]

Probasco rulez!!!

Luis Scott Vargas incredible player, all important events top8!!!

[KillemallCFH]

Dave Caplan is 9-1 going into Round 11, and Geoff Smelski is 7-3. Rich Shay is 8-2; Andrew Probasco is continuing to dominate as the only 30-pointer.

[Seriously]

is there a link on the wizards site to event coverage for today ? like the pairings and everything again ?

[KillemallCFH]

is there a link on the wizards site to event coverage for today ? like the pairings and everything again ?Same place as yesterday. (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpchi09/welcome)

[Seriously]

thanks. I dont ever go on the wizards site, I just got the link to the coverage from here. everytime I tried to find an update for todays info, I just kept getting links to yesterdays info.

[Kitchen Table Hero]

Undefeated day 1 decklists are up!
Goyf and FoW are both at 16 in tied for most played card :D

[Silverdragon]

That 4c Zoo list looks crazy. Seriously Ranger of Eos in Legacy (and fetching Kird Ape/Nacatl instead of some crazy combo/utility), Path instead of Swords and 12 Fetchlands sounds ridiculous to me.

[URABAHN]

Out of curiosity who do you think I am?

You are T-ZERO-ZERO-L
NOT T-O-O-L, you're also not a Mod, and your name isn't Mike Turpyn. We clear?

I just saw the undefeated decklists and a couple of them make me very sad with these random 1-ofs and 2-ofs. Kurtis Droge and Paul Rietzl, what in the hell were you thinking?

[georgjorge]

The first deck is running three Riptide Laboratories, plus Spellstutter Sprites as the only Faeries in a Merfolk deck. Not bad per se, but surprising. Nice interaction with Sprites and Mutavaults, and Vial allows him to keep the mana open to save Reejereys and Adepts.

And Probasco's deck looks VERY well metagamed - Bigger Fish/ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh always does well in a sea of Fish/Thresh decks.

[KillemallCFH]

Wow, that Blue Zoo list is, umm, interesting. Ranger of Eos finding its way into an undefeated deck isn't exactly what I expected.

I'm not sure if Spellsptutter Sprite + Riptide Lab is that good in Merfolk, but it seems to be doing pretty good for him. Probasco's NLB-esque deck looks solid. Goblins is Goblins. I'm not a huge fan of the Eva Green list (Especially the SB. Ew.).

Also, gogo NOThresh.

[PhanTom_lt]

Progenitus Threshold is probably the only "normal" deck out there. All the others have some surprising choices. "Not Quite Eva Green", 4c Zoo (??!), Rg Goblins (why no black?), Next Level Blue and Merfolk Wizards.

[Aj-capra]

Yeah, good deck!!!

ThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh, dreadstill and landstill suck easy in Chicago!!!

[TheAardvark]

The first deck is running three Riptide Laboratories, plus Spellstutter Sprites as the only Faeries in a Merfolk deck. Not bad per se, but surprising.

Mutavault is also very relevant.

[KillemallCFH]

VsTheWorld is 9-2 now and Forceofwill is 8-3. Also, Brassman finally dropped a match apparantly, but is still an extremely solid 10-1.

[URABAHN]

Rich Shay's Day 2 opponent was a no show! Isn't that an automatic drop for the absent player?

[Aj-capra]

Nice Merfolks-faeries.

Mana base with 10 non basic-lands, but nice job muta + sprite + riptide.

In this version i think is good to play sower in sideboard too!!!


@ 1 black lyne is very very random and a dead draw...

[lolosoon]

ThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh, dreadstill and landstill suck easy in Chicago!!!
J/K ?!

There is a gap between beeing defeated once in swiss, and being trash.

It's also irrevelant for a deck like landstill which can be easily caught off-guard and drawing (out of time) while deserving a win.

Question : would WotC post metagame breakdown for day2 in events like GP and such ?!?

That would be interesting. I wonder if combo day 2'ed through all those BlueDecks...

[godryk]

The 4c Zoo list seems cool to me, is some kind of neo-Threshold, at least understanding Threshold in the old flavour of the deck: undercosted vanillas, and Nacatl/Kird Ape grows instantly. Looks pretty fun, I mean, grabbing two Nacatl with ranger of Eos is technically card advantage, but maybe falls in the danger of coool things category... but while we're here discussing theory issues, that guy got undefeated yesterday...

[Phoenix Ignition]

The 4c Zoo list seems cool to me, is some kind of neo-Threshold, at least understanding Threshold in the old flavour of the deck: undercosted vanillas, and Nacatl/Kird Ape grows instantly. Looks pretty fun, I mean, grabbing two Nacatl with ranger of Eos is technically card advantage, but maybe falls in the danger og coool things category... but while we're here discussing theory issues, that guy got undefeated yesterday...

Sounds really good after a board wipe or to overwhelm the ridiculous amount of shackles we've seen.

Counterbalance in 1 out of 3 decks and you can sense the hatred towards that card from reading the featured matches yesterday... think it'll avoid the banhammer?

[JeroenC]

It should avoid the banhammer. And if it doesn't, it'll be released soon when Combo Summer would begin post the banhammer.

After reading the latest feature match, I really like the blue 4c Zoo deck with Ranger. Wicked tech, tbh.

[Atwa]

I also really like the blue Zoo list. Not too sure why, but after reading the feature match, I actually even like it more.

About Counterbalance, it won't be banned. If anything, they'll give Top the hammer, just like they did in Extended.

[godryk]

About Counterbalance, it won't be banned. If anything, they'll give Top the hammer, just like they did in Extended.

Yep, the metagame seems mixed and healthy, at least as it's shown in the covergae.

[KillemallCFH]

To people who know this shit a lot better than I: How many points do you think will be needed to Top64?

[Aj-capra]

Doesn't make much sense to ban cb or sdt.

Natural order must be ban, because this is magic and not yu-gi-oh.

Dreadnought + stifle is yu-gi-oh too, but this "combo" is less strong than order + progenitus, and dread kill easy too.

Luis Scoot-Vargas is very very incredible!!!

[MattH]

I forget if Probasco is on my team or not, but I wish him (and Rich Shay) the best of luck!

I would actually LOVE to see CB/top broken up. It might not meet the criteria for dominance that banning usually requires, but man alive, do I just hate playing against it (and playing WITH it isn't really that fun either IMO).


Doesn't make much sense to ban cb or sdt.

Natural order must be ban, because this is magic and not yu-gi-oh.
BATTLE RESULT
Aj-capra has mastered the skill, "Irony"!

[MattH]

“Counterbalance was confusing too, with players unsure whether revealing a land to Counterbalance could counter a zero casting cost spell.” It does. He also detailed a mistaken ruling from the feature match area on Saturday, where a judge errantly ruled that if a player didn’t consciously make mention of triggering the Counterbalance before doing something in response (like activating Sensei’s Divining Top to arrange the top three cards of the library favorably), the trigger was missed and the player couldn’t reveal. “Whenever an opponent plays a spell, Counterbalancemust trigger. When it comes to revealing the card, the controller of Counterbalance may choose to do that.” Response or not, the Counterbalance trigger goes on the stack.
!
Still not Chapin's fault though; he asked a judge how Counterbalance worked, and the judge gave him the wrong answer.

[Maëlig]

I would actually LOVE to see CB/top broken up. It might not meet the criteria for dominance that banning usually requires, but man alive, do I just hate playing against it (and playing WITH it isn't really that fun either IMO).

What about playing in a field full of combo?


!
Still not Chapin's fault though; he asked a judge how Counterbalance worked, and the judge gave him the wrong answer.
Well, his question was clearly aimed at misleading his opponent and the judge (I can hardly believe a player like him doesn't know how CB works). From a purely legal point of view he's clear of course, but it's still incredibly unfairplay on his part.

Is it just me, or are all those mirror feature matches incredibly boring? I wish they would give a little more credit to the diversity of the legacy metagame (even though CB thresh seems to be everywhere).

[Aj-capra]

I forget if Probasco is on my team or not, but I wish him (and Rich Shay) the best of luck!

I would actually LOVE to see CB/top broken up. It might not meet the criteria for dominance that banning usually requires, but man alive, do I just hate playing against it (and playing WITH it isn't really that fun either IMO).


BATTLE RESULT
Aj-capra has mastered the skill, "Irony"!

Oky ban cb or sdt, but wiz must ban led and ichorid too. :wink:

[melie]

Although storm might maybe get a little to strong, I personally agree that it should be banned (along with Ad Nauseam. Btw, where the hell is that card in Chiacgo??). It just makes for unfun games. But I really hope that they'll ban CB instead of Top. I just like top to much..

[Pinder]

So goobafish is still X-1 After round 12. I'm not sure about ForceofWill or konsultant.

[TheLion]

but this "combo" [Stiflenought] is less strong than order + progenitus

really?

Btw: Where are the really cool decks? 4c Zoo feat. Ranger of Eos going undeafeted is great news. But I'd love to see some decks like Eternal Garden, Welder Survival, Trainwreck, Sliver, Aluren, Enchantress, and so on.
Has anyone info on some more rogue decks?
I am kind of tired about hearing about the CB/Tarmo decks.

[Whit3 Ghost]

They shouldn't ban anything, the format is fine, the best deck doesn't play Order, Counterbalance, Top or Ad Nauseum. :wink:

[Mantis]

From the match between Probasco and Vidiguris:
The following turn, Vidugiris tried to set up a Standstill with Vial in play. In response, Probasco simply flipped his Top without checking and cast Krosan Grip on the Aether Vial, leaving Vidugiris in the unenviable position of having to crack his own Standstill with Silvergill Adept the following turn. The Standstill drew Probasco into a Spell Snare, stopping the 2/1 and allowing Probasco to swing in unabated once more and add a second Tarmogoyf to the table.

Wow, that is living the dream. Despite his loss my money is still on either him, LSV or goobafish to take it down.

Although that Zoo deck is INSANE, props on building that!

[MattH]

What about playing in a field full of combo?
I would find that vastly preferable, yes.


Well, his question was clearly aimed at misleading his opponent and the judge (I can hardly believe a player like him doesn't know how CB works). From a purely legal point of view he's clear of course, but it's still incredibly unfairplay on his part.
How SHOULD he have asked the question, then?

[Atwa]

Oky ban cb or sdt, but wiz must ban led and ichorid too. :wink:

Why that? People have only really started to play CounterTop since 2 year or so and both LED and Ichorid were already played at that time, neither was distorting the meta at that time.

And for Christs sake, why would you want to ban Ichorid? That deck can win without casting anything. If there is one tire 1/2 deck which can't care less about CounterTop, it's Ichorid.

I don't believe the banning of either Top nor CB will rise combo to the top (no pun intended). It will just change a lot of decks, just like restricting Brainstorm in Vintage did. Decks will need to adjust, but it won't warp the meta.

[KillemallCFH]

So goobafish is still X-1 After round 12. I'm not sure about ForceofWill or konsultant.Forceofwill isn't doing too well today. Last I heard he's 8-4. Smelksi was 8-3 before this round; I don't know if he won or not.

[Kitchen Table Hero]

To people who know this shit a lot better than I: How many points do you think will be needed to Top64?

I am curious about this and Top 8 too, so if anybody has a better idea then I do then please let us know.

I checked the results of GP Lille to get an idea (300 less players though, if that makes any difference):
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.aspx?x=mtgevent/gplill05/stand15

Top8 was 36 points.
Top64 was 30 points.
I expect that in a bigger event those point requirements will be higher?

[Aj-capra]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aj-capra View Post
Oky ban cb or sdt, but wiz must ban led and ichorid too.

really?


You from is England?? This is typical english (not american) humor!!!

I think who cb + sdt is strong , but a good player can get round the problem and krosan + trygon + needle help this!!!

my 2 cents...

[Omega]

To have a X-2 record in a 1200 persons tournament!!! That must be a very interesting experience

best luck to the sourcers :D

And please, lets stop talking about ban. Let the "wise" men at wizards decide that for us. Not like they take into account our opinions.

And the undefeated are not all playing CB

Robert

[melie]

Let the "wise" men at wizards decide that for us.
:laugh:

Agree, we should stop talking about the banning thing in this topic. Just one last thing... I don't think they should ban CB because it's to powerfull. It just makes for boring games. Same with Ad Nauseam.. I always admired storm decks because of their engines and intricities to play them well. Now you just cast 1 spell, draw 10 cards, put your hand on the table and win. *sarcasm* Why don't bring back Yawgmoth's Bargain and Necro I say? *sarcasm*

[Omega]

on topic the B/W Deadguy like deck won against Imperial Painter!!

Red blasts arent that good without a painter against a non-blue deck eh? :D

(To understand my fury against imperial painter, one must understand that i lost to it in last tournament)

Robert

[KillemallCFH]

Smelski lost to go to 8-4. At this point, Caplan is the only Sourcer who can make Top 8 (and there's a pretty fucking good chance he will).

[Omega]

Caplan is surprising with his tempo threshold. Everytime i tried it, i lost badly

I guess i dont know the art of mulligan

Robert

[Aj-capra]

Smelski lost to go to 8-4. At this point, Caplan is the only Sourcer who can make Top 8 (and there's a pretty fucking good chance he will).


Bad news :((

Caplan go go!! Otherwise luis gogo!!!

Blue zoo is a very surprise, but Ranger of Eos is very very slow. Oky tutor 2 creatures (wild and bear), but 4 mana...

@The other two-thirds of the holy triumvirate of Legacy befuddlement? Counterbalance and Sensei’s Divining Top, particularly in conjunction with one another. “I was shocked at the amount of people who tried to activate Sensei’s Divining Top without actually having one in play,” Jason explained. Most of the time it was simply a gaffe, from players so used to having the artifact on the board they took for granted it might not be. Many others activated it after using it to draw card, forgetting for the moment it was on the top of their deck instead of in play. “Counterbalance was confusing too, with players unsure whether revealing a land to Counterbalance could counter a zero casting cost spell.” It does. He also detailed a mistaken ruling from the feature match area on Saturday, where a judge errantly ruled that if a player didn’t consciously make mention of triggering the Counterbalance before doing something in response (like activating Sensei’s Divining Top to arrange the top three cards of the library favorably), the trigger was missed and the player couldn’t reveal. “Whenever an opponent plays a spell, Counterbalancemust trigger. When it comes to revealing the card, the controller of Counterbalance may choose to do that.” Response or not, the Counterbalance trigger goes on the stack.

[scrow213]

At least the guy didn't lose to the judge's mistake.

[MattH]

Why don't bring back Yawgmoth's Bargain and Necro I say? *sarcasm*

Necropotence is actually a very skill-intensive card, because you have to plan out a turn ahead of time. Bargain is much dumber. Both are too powerful, though.

[aTn]

Pat is 100% right. If he wouldn't have called a judge and his opponent failed to find a 2 CMC spell, the opponent could have just said; 'Oh, well I don't reveal in that case' thus Chapin would miss out on free information.

Read the first post mentioning the subject - we all know Pat is right (most of us anyhow).

The thing is he still acted like a dick IMO.

I've faced stressed out players making similar "shortcuts" at GP Montreal and I didn't call a judge.

Anyhow, way to necrose a subject (my bad... was gone partying).

[KillemallCFH]

VsTheWorld and Forceofwill are both 9-4.

Will 11-4 make Top64?

[Aj-capra]

VsTheWorld and Forceofwill are both 9-4.

Will 11-4 make Top64?

With 33 points I think who can be possible to make top 64, but with a good reating too...

[Omega]

Tarmogoyf, Counterbalance, even dark confidant, cotv @ 1 are all wonderful two drops :P Dont forget standstill, although the card doesnt always work on its own.

[Aj-capra]

Tarmogoyf, Counterbalance, even dark confidant, cotv @ 1 are all wonderful two drops :P Dont forget standstill, although the card doesnt always work on its own.

But these players play these cards too :xd

[NQN]

I´d say it depends pretty much on the matchup, but usually it should be balance.

[Silverdragon]

Also don't forget Survival, Loam and Burning Wish among others. I think there are lots of very good and powerful 2 drops but they just don't "warp" the metagame like Goyf and CB (and to a lesser extend Chalice@1) do.

[DeathwingZERO]

I like how the head judge allowed everyone to have the shortcut when CB is around, but goddamn does that dumb down the game too much. Forgetting triggered abilities and misplaying around them is part of tournament life, and that's just giving the players the go ahead to continue playing badly with the card.

Is it too hard to just say "Counterbalance on the stack, I do this"?

[PhanTom_lt]

The Day 2 metagame is up. 34 different decks are present.

[Maëlig]

I like how the head judge allowed everyone to have the shortcut when CB is around, but goddamn does that dumb down the game too much. Forgetting triggered abilities and misplaying around them is part of tournament life, and that's just giving the players the go ahead to continue playing badly with the card.

Is it too hard to just say "Counterbalance on the stack, I do this"?
???
It's not dumbing down the game, but giving a single, sensible interpretation to a shortcut commonly used. Why would you interpret "I play BS in resp to your spell" as "I let the CB trigger resolve, then play BS" (which is exactly what the judge did)?

[esmandil]

I like how the head judge allowed everyone to have the shortcut when CB is around

This is no shortcut: it's just how CB works. The judge made a mistake during Chapin's match. This comes from the coverage:


He also detailed a mistaken ruling from the feature match area on Saturday, where a judge errantly ruled that if a player didn’t consciously make mention of triggering the Counterbalance before doing something in response (like activating Sensei’s Divining Top to arrange the top three cards of the library favorably), the trigger was missed and the player couldn’t reveal. “Whenever an opponent plays a spell, Counterbalance must trigger. When it comes to revealing the card, the controller of Counterbalance may choose to do that.” Response or not, the Counterbalance trigger goes on the stack.

[saspook]

I love the 15 card sideboard from Frank Emmert

Sideboard

1 Ancient Tomb
1 Auriok Salvagers
1 City of Brass
1 Eternal Witness
1 Gamekeeper
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Krosan Grip
1 Orzhov Guildmage
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Progenitus
1 Shriekmaw
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Tombstalker
1 Tormod's Crypt

[TheLion]

Yeah, great board ;-) and great deck. Unfortunately all the other decks seem quite mainstream.

[Finn]

Does anyone know why there is a deck called "CounterTop"? That would be fine except that Threshold is listed separately. So I am wondering what this deck is that has more copies in day two than any other.

[Waikiki]

It's the new threshold variants dropping goose for things like confidant etc.
and playing the CB/top engine

The threshold decks are the decks not packing CB/top and do run goose. (canadian thresh as example)

[kabal]

Does anyone know why there is a deck called "CounterTop"?

It contains no threshold cards, instead opted for some combination of the below:

Sower
Shackles
Confidant
Trinket Mage

[Maëlig]

Does anyone know why there is a deck called "CounterTop"? That would be fine except that Threshold is listed separately. So I am wondering what this deck is that has more copies in day two than any other.

Yeah this troubled me too, I guess by "threshold" they mean tempo-thresh (ie not playing CB). I wonder where they put the traditional balanced thresh lists (packing CB AND mongoose), though.
I think it's not a bad distinction because all these Ugx_CB+goodstuff.decks really have a similar game plan, they should just make it clearer what exactly is included in the "threshold" category (what about NO thresh?).

[TheLion]

These have their origin in the multicolored Threshold decks that are an established part of the Legacy metagame, but have largely moved away from threshold itself, removing the Nimble Mongooses that were the last remnant of that mechanic, with other cuts made as well. Replacing them are some combination of Dark Confidants for card advantage, Krosan Grips for utility, Vedalken Shackles or Sower of Temptation for creature control, and additional land to power all that.

[Finn]

Yeah, I can't quite blame anyone for trying to categorize decks that we would recognize as Threshold into something else. I mean, Threshold is everything from UG Thrash to Swans combo to something like creature burn and now even Natural Order-Progenitals.

Anyway, thanks for the responses.

[bruno_tiete]

Round 14

4 Scott-Vargas, Luis D 33 vs. Probasco, Andrew 33

Also, Caplan is at 12-1!

[saspook]

Round 14

4 Scott-Vargas, Luis D 33 vs. Probasco, Andrew 33

Please don't be the featured match.

[Aj-capra]

1 Kowal, Brian J 39 73.1181%
2 Rietzl, Paul R 38 73.9839%
3 Caplan, David M 37 70.9716%
4 Probasco, Andrew 36 77.0563%
5 Six, Brian D 36 74.5671%
6 Mink, James C 36 69.0115%
7 Lynch, Jeffrey T 36 68.5185%
8 Kolowith, Tommy 36 67.0886%
9 Nassif, Gabriel 35 75.3247%
10 Utter-Leyton, Josh W 34 64.9901%
11 Davis, Jim I 34 62.7900%
12 Diaz Diaz, Pablo David 34 60.8939%
13 Hunt, Tim R 34 60.8692%
14 Scott-Vargas, Luis D 33 73.4307% <--- sigh sigh!!!



Nassif can make top8 after win pt !!!!

gogo europe!!!

1 Risk, Jimmy K 33 vs. Burton, Brandon 33
2 Caplan, David M 37 vs. Six, Brian D 36
3 Probasco, Andrew 36 vs. Mink, James C 36
4 Lynch, Jeffrey T 36 vs. Kolowith, Tommy 36
5 Nassif, Gabriel 35 vs. Utter-Leyton, Josh W 34
6 Davis, Jim I 34 vs. Diaz Diaz, Pablo David 34
7 Hunt, Tim R 34 vs. Scott-Vargas, Luis D 33

Caplan must play -.-""

[Omega]

how much rounds total will there be?

Robert

[Jak]

15. So do you have to be 13-2 to make it?

[saspook]

This is the last round. If I am reading this right, there are 6 people ahead of LSV, and an outside shot of him getting in, there are a few 36'ers who can't draw.

[Aggro_zombies]

14 Scott-Vargas, Luis D 33 73.4307% <--- sigh sigh!!!
LUIS, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...

[Jak]

If you draw, you get a point, right?

[bradleyjx]

Signs point to 12-2-1 being the cut.

Jak.: yes; draws = 1 pt.

[elof]

Yes, 1 point.

Does anyone know what top, say 14, plays?

[georgjorge]

I love the 15 card sideboard from Frank Emmert



Yea, looks like he overdid it a bit with the one-ofs, putting in stuff he would hardly ever fetch (Progenitus?) as well as forgetting that Wish couldn't tutor up artifacts, instants or enchantments. His manabase seems a bit random as well...

2 Ancient Tomb
1 Badlands
2 Bayou
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 City of Traitors
2 Nantuko Monastery
1 Polluted Delta
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Taiga
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Wasteland
2 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills

I think he was just aiming for the longest decklist in the tournament.

[spirit of the wretch]

Caplan must play -.-""

If I'm not reading this completly wrong they can ID and both will be in (due to the opp score).

Props from me. Great job!

[elof]

...I think he was just aiming for the longest decklist in the tournament...

2 Tainted Pact.

[Omega]

Are you guys saying it will be a top8??? Because if its top 16, 32... Caplan could draw and make it.

Robert

[Kitchen Table Hero]

Are you guys saying it will be a top8??? Because if its top 16, 32... Caplan could draw and make it.

Robert

Yes its top8 and he will make it anyways.