What ARB Means for Legacy [Archive]

Sek'Kuar

03-09-2009, 09:44 AM

Well, we now have proof that Alara Reborn is going to be all multicolor, or at least no monocolor. What does this mean for Legacy? The impact on standard is huge, and extended will feel the bite, but will we even notice? Thoughts?

Oh, yeah. Link:
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/141

Skeggi

03-09-2009, 09:52 AM

http://www.wizards.com/mtg/images/daily/arcana/141_euhvv9z6.jpg

They say there should be something interesting to speculate if we studied the card. So I guess that's Elspeth. On a blue/white card...still not really interesting...

...and what is the set's logo supposed to be anyway?

Ch@os

03-09-2009, 10:04 AM

I think they mean the blue/white border artwork.
Not that bad.

Skeggi

03-09-2009, 10:27 AM

They already did that.
Example:

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/di/104.jpg

kicks_422

03-09-2009, 10:31 AM

No. It's the card number. It's #1 for a multicolor card, which means that there are no monocolor cards.

bowvamp

03-09-2009, 10:38 AM

Does that mean that they have multi-colored (this time literally having colors) lands? Or will there be no non-basics in ARB?

kicks_422

03-09-2009, 10:40 AM

Lands are the last in the numbering of cards. So for ARB, it's multicolor cards followed by artifacts and lands.

dahcmai

03-09-2009, 10:45 AM

The limited formats will be interesting for sure. There's always at least one card that might make it into Legacy. It's surprising how many recently have filtered down into our favorite format.

I just hope there are some non-allied cards in it.

sunshine

03-09-2009, 10:54 AM

Generally multicolor cards have a higher power level than monocolored ones of the same converted mana cost - the drawback being they're harder to cast which is less of a drawback for eternal formats as we have access to the best fixing and most ways to cheat cards into play. It will be interesting to see if this means ARB has more relevant cards for legacy.

Sek'Kuar

03-09-2009, 11:49 AM

sunshine

03-09-2009, 11:51 AM

Most likely there will be a lot of garbage but we'll see. They're going to need some serious mana fixing in the set so maybe we'll get something relevant there too but that's a long shot.

klaus

03-09-2009, 12:40 PM

Most likely there will be a lot of garbage but we'll see. They're going to need some serious mana fixing in the set so maybe we'll get something relevant there too but that's a long shot.

R/W
R/U
B/G
G/U
W/B
...
Fetchlands?!? :cool:

Sek'Kuar

03-09-2009, 08:22 PM

R/W
R/U
B/G
G/U
W/B
...
Fetchlands?!? :cool:

Don't hold your breath...:rolleyes:

mercenarybdu

03-09-2009, 09:18 PM

R/W
R/U
B/G
G/U
W/B
...
Fetchlands?!? :cool:

I doubt it. The last time they claimed it, there were still none. Yet there is always a possibility.

Wizards did that with Apocalypse with the Enemy Painland cycle. Yet if they do release the enemy fetchalnds, that would be spectacular.

But keep in mind that the last of the Alara Block will most likely be enemy triples.

U/R/G/
B/G/W
W/R/B
G/U/B
R/W/U

JeroenC

03-10-2009, 04:10 AM

But keep in mind that the last of the Alara Block will most likely be enemy triples.

U/R/G/
B/G/W
W/R/B
G/U/B
R/W/U

I sincerely doubt so, as that would probably have no way to tie in with the story whatsoever.

Skeggi

03-10-2009, 04:32 AM

I sincerely doubt so, as that would probably have no way to tie in with the story whatsoever.
Whenever mercenarybdu claims something, expect the opposite.

Zach Tartell

03-10-2009, 08:51 AM

Huzzah 5c EDH decks?

Phoenix Ignition

03-10-2009, 11:00 AM

I really wish they would make some cards that punish people for playing with duals. But then they wouldn't sell their shitty ass Standard version of whatever land they are selling and there wouldn't be as much demand because people wouldn't have to buy tons of packs just to compete.

Damn, they're smart.

Skeggi

03-10-2009, 11:15 AM

Nihil Credo

03-10-2009, 01:31 PM

Where do hybrids fall in the card numbering system?

Jak

03-10-2009, 01:47 PM

Where do hybrids fall in the card numbering system?

Aren't they still just multicolored?

I am annoyed of multicolored already.

Zach Tartell

03-10-2009, 01:53 PM

Where do hybrids fall in the card numbering system?

My assumption, having read the opinions of people who (prolly) pay more attention to this sort of than than I, after colors and before artifacts/lands.

Sanguine Voyeur

03-10-2009, 02:26 PM

I'm tired of multi-color blocks.

heroicraptor

03-10-2009, 02:30 PM

My assumption, having read the opinions of people who (prolly) pay more attention to this sort of than than I, after colors and before artifacts/lands.
Yep. (http://magiccards.info/rav/en.html)

Sek'Kuar

03-10-2009, 04:55 PM

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that hybrid will be no-show for this set due to its presence in Shadowmoor. I'll try to find a link.

Obfuscate Freely

03-13-2009, 05:35 PM

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that hybrid will be no-show for this set due to its presence in Shadowmoor. I'll try to find a link.
If there are no hybrids, then the set will be entirely devoid of non-artifact one-drops. I'm not sure if that's good or bad, but it does automatically make the set less interesting for Legacy.

T is for TOOL

03-13-2009, 05:38 PM

If there are no hybrids, then the set will be entirely devoid of non-artifact one-drops. I'm not sure if that's good or bad, but it does automatically make the set less interesting for Legacy.
Not if they bring back alternate casting costs!

bowvamp

03-13-2009, 05:49 PM

Maybe a reprint phyrexian dreadnaught? lol. I think that either there will be lands that cost 1 or they will have hybrid.

quicksilver

03-13-2009, 06:17 PM

I greatly enjoy multicolored cards. It seems far to few of them are legacy playable and the ones that are marginally so. I would love to get some good legacy playable multicolored cards.

Sek'Kuar

03-13-2009, 07:13 PM

I can't find a link. I would swear on a stack of power 9 that I read it on an official site, though. It was something about preserving the uniqueness of hybrid and not flooding the environment because it made spells easier to cast and that sped up the environment too much, or something along those lines. And honestly, it gives Esper a serious boon. Not to say other "Shards" couldn't use them, just that Esper can use them better. Wizards wouldn't want to unbalance the format like that. This is speaking from a standard viewpoint, which is clearly Wizards favorite format, but still.

Aleksandr

03-14-2009, 10:26 AM

I really wish they would make some cards that punish people for playing with duals.

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/tp/340.jpghttp://magiccards.info/scans/en/us/62.jpg
http://magiccards.info/scans/en/dk/57.jpghttp://magiccards.info/scans/en/ex/95.jpg

Srsly?yeah, srsly..

http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/PS/en-us/Card9690.jpg http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/HM/en-us/Card2974.jpg

also Dwarven (Blast)Miners FTW... :smile:

phoenix33

03-14-2009, 12:22 PM

It's confirmed that its 145 Multicolor Cards. No Uncolored Artifacts or Lands.

http://www.scribd.com/share/upload/10017472/1qbcxfy18hoq5pp91dyh

Sek'Kuar

03-14-2009, 02:32 PM

Wow. This raises the question of 1 drops even further. Either they are trying to slow down standard or they have a new mechanic in mind.

Nihil Credo

03-14-2009, 02:57 PM

That also suggests no hybrids. Unless I'm wrong, Wizards doesn't call hybrids "gold".

For 1-drops, I hope they have come up with a Channel-like mechanic; such cards are generally quite interesting to play with, offering the opportunity to be efficient at multiple points in the game.

bowvamp

03-14-2009, 03:42 PM

OMG! I just thought of what their 1 drop enabling mechanic has to be! It's gotta be one of these 3 in order to be fluent with the general flavor surrounding the block:
Channel (only used in one set but the flavor surrounding it really wouldn't work without kamis)
Forecast (has only been used in one set, this one gets my vote)
Cycling (basically the same as channel just it gives you a card)

JeroenC

03-14-2009, 06:06 PM

Maybe they're trying to make one-drops less important with a lot of CITP lands.

Media314r8

03-14-2009, 07:10 PM

Apparently as of M10, (Magic 2010, effectivly 11th edition) there will be no more mana burn. Am I the only one upset that manaburn is being axed? So much for having a ANT player mystical for Ad Nauseum, crack LEDs, and tap top only to have the draw stifled and burn for six. Not that I still didnt win that game, but Mana burn was IMO a good way to 'visualize' combo 'mages' chains of spells 'fizzling,' and being burned by all the volitile mana they generated in the process. I feel like the occasional '-sigh- pass, burn for X' from TES also made mana burn a very flavorful part of the game.

Not ARB related, but related to future sets and relevant to legacy.

Clearly ARB will mean major revisions to cube lists. Lets just hope we don't see a bunch of SHA/Apocalypse 'X card hozes Y color cards' or 'X color cannot block this guy.' Multicolor generaly means harder to cast and thus more powerful, so here's to seeing some uncommon 2 mana playables, like watchwolf circa 2010:

Big Bear WG (U)
4/2
-"he's iron tough, he don't take no guff."

Isamaru

03-14-2009, 07:17 PM

Not that we need one more thing to be up in arms about over a change... but axeing mana burn is absolutely rediculous.

As you said, it makes sense not only flavorfully (which is a huge point) but also strategically!

Sometimes you'll even want to lower your life against a deck playing Pulse of the Fields, and again, flavorfully, I don't see why you should have the ability as a mage/planeswalker to "tap" your lands for mana with the intention of harming yourself.

from Cairo

03-14-2009, 09:24 PM

Here's hoping for some bomb gold rares its been a while since we've seen some good ones... Inv/PS/Apoc Like Meddling Mage, Pernicious Deed, Vindicate... All gold set has some potential if they power level is there.

freakish777

03-15-2009, 03:14 PM

http://www.wizards.com/mtg/images/daily/arcana/141_euhvv9z6.jpg

This artwork is very reminiscient of Righteousness...

Sek'Kuar

03-15-2009, 04:25 PM

On the topic of mana burn, the removal of mana burn will be a nice thing for those of us who regularly play Salvager Game. it sucks for an opponent to say go ahead only to neuter you between the mana making and the kill... God that blows. But no more!!!!!:smile:

TrialByFire

03-15-2009, 11:42 PM

For people who also play Vintage such as myself, Mana Drain just went from really good to amazing. And no more will people get fucked when they Drain things in their first main phase then pass the turn. Although I do agree that getting rid of mana burn is lame. :frown:

Sims

03-16-2009, 12:05 AM

It's kinda silly for everyone to be fueling the fire about this rumor until we have some more reliable and/or hard evidence that they would be making such a change. While I know they are trying to bring the "risk averse" players back into the game or pick up kids who might not like the self-damaging idea from playing YGO and PKMN, they have stated their desire to bring flavor and the fantasy of being a mage or planeswalker dueling each other back in the core set, and mana burn is a flavorful portion of that concept.

However, if it is true I dunno how I would feel about it as that's a rather basic principle of the game that has been for years.. However, it would make Stax and stompy-shell decks a bit better as they won't have to worry about taking 3 off an Ancient Tomb when casting and odd-CMC'd spell.

Forbiddian

03-16-2009, 02:07 AM

Apparently as of M10, (Magic 2010, effectivly 11th edition) there will be no more mana burn. Am I the only one upset that manaburn is being axed? So much for having a ANT player mystical for Ad Nauseum, crack LEDs, and tap top only to have the draw stifled and burn for six. Not that I still didnt win that game, but Mana burn was IMO a good way to 'visualize' combo 'mages' chains of spells 'fizzling,' and being burned by all the volitile mana they generated in the process. I feel like the occasional '-sigh- pass, burn for X' from TES also made mana burn a very flavorful part of the game.

Wow. You're arguing against a rules change by misinterpreting the current rules in a hypothetical situation that you set up.

Epic fail.

BTW, you can't stifle the draw step. I can't believe you didn't know that and that's the ONE example you could think of for keeping mana burn.

AngryTroll

03-16-2009, 02:21 AM

Wow. You're arguing against a rules change by misinterpreting the current rules in a hypothetical situation that you set up.

Epic fail.

BTW, you can't stifle the draw step. I can't believe you didn't know that and that's the ONE example you could think of for keeping mana burn.

Actually, his scenerio works. He said the combo player tapped Top to draw the Ad Nauseum, after Mystical Tutoring for it. That draw can, in fact, be Stifled.

The much more common play (does ANT ever even run Tops?) is to untap for the turn, cast Mystical Tutor, break LEDs, draw Ad Nauseum with mana floating, then cast it. Forbiddian is correct-that can't be Stifled.

Not being able to manaburn weakens cards that care about your life total compared to your opponent's life total, like Pulse of the Forge. I know that's super narrow, but still, that neuters that card.

Nihil Credo

03-16-2009, 08:03 AM

Actually, his scenerio works. He said the combo player tapped Top to draw the Ad Nauseum, after Mystical Tutoring for it. That draw can, in fact, be Stifled.

Although in that case the ANT players is very unlikely to mana burn for six, given that he has a Top in play.

The much more common play (does ANT ever even run Tops?) is to untap for the turn, cast Mystical Tutor, break LEDs, draw Ad Nauseum with mana floating, then cast it. Forbiddian is correct-that can't be Stifled.

Interestingly, I talked to a guy yesterday at a tournament who absolutely insisted that Stifle required a rule change soon after it was printed because it used to be possible to counter the turn draw with it.

HdH_Cthulhu

03-16-2009, 09:21 AM

Mana burn is soo good! Nothing is funnier when in your casual group someone makes infinite mana und you respond with a extirpate on his fireball so he will explode like a giant mana atombomb!

quicksilver

03-16-2009, 09:25 AM

Mana burn is soo good! Nothing is funnier when in your casual group someone makes infinite mana und you respond with a extirpate on his fireball so he will explode like a giant mana atombomb!

Responding to mana abilities is the tech.

Tacosnape

03-16-2009, 09:43 AM

On topic, ARB having no 1-drops wouldn't be the weirdest thing ever as far as Legacy goes. Generally new sets only contribute about 3-6 cards to the format anyway.

Off topic, How fun is Wake Thrasher going to be if they axe Mana Burn? Even without the Mutavaults, EOT, Tap all my lands, Untap, Wake Thrasher is huge, Swaaaang.

HdH_Cthulhu

03-16-2009, 10:13 AM

Responding to mana abilities is the tech.

yeah in our group there is some wreid multiplayer bomberman combo. Or a palinchron, Recurring Nightmare. Even some Prist of titania/Viridian Joiner umbral mantel.deck. If you have the right cards (and in chaos multiplayer someone will have...) its not so hard to make them fizzle.

Zach Tartell

03-16-2009, 03:24 PM

yeah in our group there is some wreid multiplayer bomberman combo. Or a palinchron, Recurring Nightmare. Even some Prist of titania/Viridian Joiner umbral mantel.deck. If you have the right cards (and in chaos multiplayer someone will have...) its not so hard to make them fizzle.

I'm fairly certain that Dave was remarking that it was extraordinary that you were responding to mana abilities (as it's illegal), and not that your casual friends play terrible cards.

Nihil Credo

03-16-2009, 04:31 PM

I'm fairly certain that Dave was remarking that it was extraordinary that you were responding to mana abilities (as it's illegal), and not that your casual friends play terrible cards.
That said, outside of Mox Lotus I don't think it's possible to actually get infinite mana as a mana ability. And you can easily respond to the hundredth iteration of an infinite-mana combo.

Sek'Kuar

03-16-2009, 10:46 PM

That said, outside of Mox Lotus I don't think it's possible to actually get infinite mana as a mana ability. And you can easily respond to the hundredth iteration of an infinite-mana combo.

Like Salvager Game. *Shudder*. I have nightmares about that happening to me. Once was enough to send irrevocable terror down my spine. My opponent counters the spellbomb with whatever counterspell it is that RFG's instead of putting it into the GY. *Sob* (I had no Living wish in hand so I could fetch Maga, either...)