Seriously's Ideas About Legacy GPs (And Responses)

[Seriously]

is it just me or is anyone else kind of saddened from the outcome of all of this. I am an ex casual player who has slowly been becoming a legacy player over the last two years now. home drama and friend/magic player drama kept me from going to the GP. but I had my heart set on it, I would have really liked to have gone.

its been crazy exciting refreshing the page every few minutes since yesterday, to check all the pairings and rounds and whose playing who info. I didnt know a whole lot about this event, just a few friends and some people that I talk to online who would be playing ended up going.

through reading on the site and keeping up with everything going on with this GP. I started seeing a lot of names and interviews with people who I'd never heard of. apparently they are all big 'pros' in magic, but Im not even sure what that means. like they're pretty good at standard events or something ?

from reading the source, near daily, from the time I wake up until the time I go to sleep. I rarely see anything posted on this forum from one of these magic 'pros'. instead I see pages and pages of hard work and information about deck building, playing and strategy, posted here, for free for everyone else to read and contribute too. I see a lot of these people answer many questions from others all through out the day and explain things to them. do the pros have a place like this out their own that they call home, like we do here at the source ?


so this morning was when I relized that what I had assumed was wrong. I had assumed that the players playing in this event would all be legacy players. but apparently that is not the case, apparently anyone can come along and join this GP and play away, who cares if they care about legacy or not. this is the feeling that Im got today. who cares about legacy, when its just a stepping stone to money, fortune and fame. I feel as if a stranger in my land has come from out of nowhere and crowned himself the king. and when the money is gone and the fame is fading, when something new offers things much more promissing, he will be gone as quickly as he came. and the kingdom will fall back to the people once again and they shall rejoice.


:frown:

[Pulp_Fiction]

is it just me or is anyone else kind of saddened from the outcome of all of this. I am an ex casual player who has slowly been becoming a legacy player over the last two years now. home drama and friend/magic player drama kept me from going to the GP. but I had my heart set on it, I would have really liked to have gone.

its been crazy exciting refreshing the page every few minutes since yesterday, to check all the pairings and rounds and whose playing who info. I didnt know a whole lot about this event, just a few friends and some people that I talk to online who would be playing ended up going.

through reading on the site and keeping up with everything going on with this GP. I started seeing a lot of names and interviews with people who I'd never heard of. apparently they are all big 'pros' in magic, but Im not even sure what that means. like they're pretty good at standard events or something ?

from reading the source, near daily, from the time I wake up until the time I go to sleep. I rarely see anything posted on this forum from one of these magic 'pros'. instead I see pages and pages of hard work and information about deck building, playing and strategy, posted here, for free for everyone else to read and contribute too. I see a lot of these people answer many questions from others all through out the day and explain things to them. do the pros have a place like this out their own that they call home, like we do here at the source ?


so this morning was when I relized that what I had assumed was wrong. I had assumed that the players playing in this event would all be legacy players. but apparently that is not the case, apparently anyone can come along and join this GP and play away, who cares if they care about legacy or not. this is the feeling that Im got today. who cares about legacy, when its just a stepping stone to money, fortune and fame. I feel as if a stranger in my land has come from out of nowhere and crowned himself the king. and when the money is gone and the fame is fading, when something new offers things much more promissing, he will be gone as quickly as he came. and the kingdom will fall back to the people once again and they shall rejoice.


:frown:

Well said sir, well said.

[Nihil Credo]

so this morning was when I relized that what I had assumed was wrong. I had assumed that the players playing in this event would all be legacy players. but apparently that is not the case, apparently anyone can come along and join this GP and play away, who cares if they care about legacy or not. this is the feeling that Im got today. who cares about legacy, when its just a stepping stone to money, fortune and fame. I feel as if a stranger in my land has come from out of nowhere and crowned himself the king. and when the money is gone and the fame is fading, when something new offers things much more promissing, he will be gone as quickly as he came. and the kingdom will fall back to the people once again and they shall rejoice.


:frown:

Jesus zombie Christ on a pogo stick, try to get some perspective.

A Magic format isn't a club. It's a set of rules, and a challenge of skill. This weekend Wizards offered prizes for people to play by that particular set of rules. Lots of people came, among them some extremely skilled ones. Which resulted in a very large and very interesting tournament. The only long-term implication of that is that more people might get interested in playing Legacy on a more regular basis, and Wizards might be encouraged to offer more prizes for the format.

Shouldn't that make you happy? Would you have preferred if those people had snubbed the GP because 'it's stuff for Eternal players'? I sure as hell hope not. And if anyone here does, let me tell you that I consider you a paragon of everything that's wrong with the Source.

I occasionally play in Limited PTQs for fun, for the challenge, and for the hope of qualification, even though I don't practice nearly as much as most other players. If people there treated me with barely-hidden hostility because I was an outsider who didn't regularly play 8-man drafts, quite frankly, I would 1) be fairly annoyed; 2) consider them a bunch of immature asshats.

I don't go to Limited PTQs to spit on their format, and Standard/Extended players didn't come to GP: Chicago to spit on Legacy. You're a pathetic paranoid if you believe that.

[Bardo]

through reading on the site and keeping up with everything going on with this GP. I started seeing a lot of names and interviews with people who I'd never heard of. apparently they are all big 'pros' in magic, but Im not even sure what that means. like they're pretty good at standard events or something ?

Professional Magic players are good at playing Magic. Knowledge of a format is obviously helpful, but in a format as random as Legacy, knowledge of the rules and the mental training for dealing with ~15 grueling hours of gaming is more important. The truth is, if you're dedicating your MtG energy just at Legacy, you're way behind. Because doing well at a large tournament tests a lot of skills, and knowledge of the format is only one of them. Add in that large Legacy tournaments are rare and pays to play in as many big tournaments as you can (regardless of format).


from reading the source, near daily, from the time I wake up until the time I go to sleep. I rarely see anything posted on this forum from one of these magic 'pros'. instead I see pages and pages of hard work and information about deck building, playing and strategy, posted here, for free for everyone else to read and contribute too. I see a lot of these people answer many questions from others all through out the day and explain things to them.

Meh, don't let it get you down. People post and explore Legacy on this site because it's fun and enjoyable. That's the payback (the fun and pleasure) -- not making an investment in doing well in some premiere tournament that happens every couple of years. That would be more of a side-benefit.


do the pros have a place like this out their own that they call home, like we do here at the source ?

Pros aren't a homogenous population. If individual pro players are on a team and that team has a forum they might share their thoughts/testing/etc. there. Otherwise, they're likely sharing thoughts/testing on mailing lists.


so this morning was when I relized that what I had assumed was wrong. I had assumed that the players playing in this event would all be legacy players.

You haven't been following the history. Every Legacy Grand Prix has been won by someone with either a passing interest or no known interest in this format. It's not necessary to do well.

GP Philly: Jon Sonne (pro player)
GP Lille: Helmut Summersburger (pro player)
GP Columbus: Steve Sadin (pro player)
GP Chicago: Gabriel Nassif (pro player)

That's not necessarily a bad thing. It is what it is.


who cares about legacy, when its just a stepping stone to money, fortune and fame.

I care. Most of the people on this forum care. That professional players can figure out the dimensions of this format and kick ass shouldn't be seen as a negative. Also, "fortune and fame," for winning a Magic Grand Prix, is pretty relative.


I feel as if a stranger in my land has come from out of nowhere and crowned himself the king.

Dude, Gabriel Nassif won the GP; not Kevin Bacon.

I'm happy that so many people came out. I believe it set a North American record for GP attendance. That is amazing. All of the people that care and prop up this site with good content when there is no reason to care. That is amazing too.

[FoolofaTook]

You haven't been following the history. Every Legacy Grand Prix has been won by someone with either a passing interest or no known interest in this format. It's not necessary to do well.

GP Philly: Jon Sonne (pro player)
GP Lille: Helmut Summersburger (pro player)
GP Columbus: Steve Sadin (pro player)
GP Chicago: Gabriel Nassif (pro player)

That's not necessarily a bad thing. It is what it is.

If those were the only Legacy GP's in the US then we have a relatively high level of proof that Legacy is a format dominated by skill over all other factors. Otherwise you'd expect that in at least one of those competitions a random result would have occurred propelling a skilled amateur to a win. Instead professionals have taken the prize each time, despite not having as much experience with the format as many of the skilled amateurs they faced.

[Omega]

Im sure two days of tournament is something most of us never experienced. Im sure it can be hard if you are not prepared for that. I mean, a tournament of 6 rounds (13:00 to 20:00 excluding top8) is already exhausting!

But I agree. IF pros can win Legacy. That means that legacy is a format where skill is very important, which is a good thing :)

Robert

[Seriously]

I don't go to Limited PTQs to spit on their format, and Standard/Extended players didn't come to GP: Chicago to spit on Legacy. You're a pathetic paranoid if you believe that.


I think you got a little too carried away there and somehow missed my point. I never specifically said that any of these pro players had contempt for this format, but I didnt feel any love for it either. just that they had in a way 'used' the format only for personal gain and then left as quickly as they had arrived without any intent to ever give anything back, only take. and that doesnt sit well with me, no matter what the circustances are.




Professional Magic players are good at playing Magic. Knowledge of a format is obviously helpful, but in a format as random as Legacy, knowledge of the rules and the mental training for dealing with ~15 grueling hours of gaming is more important. The truth is, if you're dedicating your MtG energy just at Legacy, you're way behind. Because doing well at a large tournament tests a lot of skills, and knowledge of the format is only one of them. Add in that large Legacy tournaments are rare and pays to play in as many big tournaments as you can (regardless of format).



if you like to think that focusing all of my mtg energy just at legacy will leave me way behind in other areas, sure thats real possible. but I like to view that as training to be a master in specific field so I can know it inside and out, before I head elsewhere to learn anything else.



You haven't been following the history. Every Legacy Grand Prix has been won by someone with either a passing interest or no known interest in this format. It's not necessary to do well.

GP Philly: Jon Sonne (pro player)
GP Lille: Helmut Summersburger (pro player)
GP Columbus: Steve Sadin (pro player)
GP Chicago: Gabriel Nassif (pro player)

That's not necessarily a bad thing. It is what it is.

no, I havent followed the history at all, its virtually unknown in the realms of the kitchen table games I've played. but seeing as you've pointed out the last 4 GPs were all won by pro players. what have the done for legacy since winning ? have they helped the community out ? built any of the past or current decks to beat in legacy ? or just not let the door hit them on the ass on their way out ?




I care. Most of the people on this forum care. That professional players can figure out the dimensions of this format and kick ass shouldn't be seen as a negative. Also, "fortune and fame," for winning a Magic Grand Prix, is pretty relative.



Im not saying at all that these people dont have any skill or are bad players or cant comprehend the legacy format. but just solely playing legacy for a few days every few years with a borrowed last minute deck, just to win the prize money, fame and trophy of the people that are in this day in and day out, blood in and blood out, is in my opinion a little rude.

"thanks for the free cash and stuff, I'll come back when you have more of it for me, but until then Im a ghost"




I'm happy that so many people came out. I believe it set a North American record for GP attendance. That is amazing. All of the people that care and prop up this site with good content when there is no reason to care. That is amazing too.


yeah, I think its great that so many people turned out for this event. I just wish that there were more legacy players and less treasure hunters.

[MattH]

Shorter Mr. Seriously:

I am upset that skill trumps fanboyism in Magic.

[frogboy]

Dude. It is not your format.

[TheAardvark]

What Max said.

Legacy does not "belong" to anyone other than Magic players at large. Threads about major Legacy events (GPs and the Legacy portions of Worlds) here ALWAYS end up being the same thing: "professional players suck, this is OUR format", etc. It is their format just as much, and just because they haven't spent the last 6 months perfecting their Nourishing Lich build in preparation for one event does not make them less deserving of winning. Professional players like Nassif play more Magic than anyone here, I'd wager, and their skills are going to be manifested in their deckbuilding or ability to play said deck (or both). Your "emotional investment" in a format does not make you more deserving of anything in regards to a tournament.

Nassif is probably the 3rd best player in the game's history. If you're going to begrudge him his victory because he doesn't post on The Source, then you probably need to either play casually only or reorganize your priorities.

[Isamaru]

if you like to think that focusing all of my mtg energy just at legacy will leave me way behind in other areas, sure thats real possible. but I like to view that as training to be a master in specific field so I can know it inside and out, before I head elsewhere to learn anything else.


Im not saying at all that these people dont have any skill or are bad players or cant comprehend the legacy format. but just solely playing legacy for a few days every few years with a borrowed last minute deck, just to win the prize money, fame and trophy of the people that are in this day in and day out, blood in and blood out, is in my opinion a little rude.

"thanks for the free cash and stuff, I'll come back when you have more of it for me, but until then Im a ghost"

yeah, I think its great that so many people turned out for this event. I just wish that there were more legacy players and less treasure hunters.

I know what you mean, but a lot of people won't agree with you (probably especially on these boards).

I went to a tournament last Wednesday before I went to the Grand Prix and a lot of the guys were laughing "dude, I have no idea what to play... I'm gonna borrow Kyle's deck with the Armageddons, that seemed really badass"... etc. I am still trying to understand what they get out of attempting to effectively gamble... because it doesn't appear to be fun.

[Seriously]

[Snip] Verbal warning for flaming. Don't do that. - Bardo


Legacy does not "belong" to anyone other than Magic players at large.... Your "emotional investment" in a format does not make you more deserving of anything in regards to a tournament.

sorry, I was under the impression that a legacy event should "belong" to legacy players. its not just pros I have an issue with, its anyone who doesnt play legacy in general. whether its a pro player with a last minute borrowed deck, playing solely for prize money and fame or johnny casual with an infinite squirrel token combo deck, that he built himself and didnt netdeck so if he loses, he loses with "honor". they can both GTFO.

I pose this hypotehical situation to all of you:

if, say, a local rifle range had some sort of shoot off competition, but it was an open event. Im sure most of the people there would be regular members, there would probably be some new comers just there for the hell of it. but what if a small group of military trained snipers showed up, won all the events, took the money and dipped.

would you still defend them to me saying 'well they're pros, respect them' and leave it at that ?

[Citrus-God]

if, say, a local rifle range had some sort of shoot off competition, but it was an open event. Im sure most of the people there would be regular members, there would probably be some new comers just there for the hell of it. but what if a small group of military trained snipers showed up, won all the events, took the money and dipped.

would you still defend them to me saying 'well they're pros, respect them' and leave it at that ?

Of course. It's a tournament, and you should be doing the best that you can. A while back in Minnesota, The Monster Den held a T1 Lotus tournament. What ended up happening was players from ICBM showed up and took up a good amount of the Top 8 slots. We treated them with respect and enjoyed their company.

[thickasabrick]

I pose this hypotehical situation to all of you:

if, say, a local rifle range had some sort of shoot off competition, but it was an open event. Im sure most of the people there would be regular members, there would probably be some new comers just there for the hell of it. but what if a small group of military trained snipers showed up, won all the events, took the money and dipped.

would you still defend them to me saying 'well they're pros, respect them' and leave it at that ?

There is absolutely no problem with that hypothetical situation. If you're competing in an open tournament, then you're going to face the best. I don't understand what the problem is with losing a shooting competition to someone who is better with a gun than you are? That's the nature of competition, people who are better generally win. If you're interested in a "more fair" competition, then enter something with skill levels. Or just be happy with 2nd place, 3rd place, 4th place, or the experience itself.

Sure it would have been cool for a Legacy die-hard to win, but I do not understand having negative feelings towards a "pro" for winning a tournament. The main issue here is your desire to redefine "Legacy Grand Prix" to be exactly what you want it to be. It's just not. It's a tournament for a wide variety of players, whether you think they are "worthy" or not. A Grand Prix is not a contest to see who can put the most effort into a format, or who cares about the format the most - it's to see who can win a single tournament.

If you're interested in seeing who can win a tournament out of the people who "really care" about Legacy then organize a tournament on TheSource, that way you can be relatively happy with whoever wins. Although there are probably some people on here who would like to play a goofy rogue deck, netdeck, or decide to play at the least second - so I guess they wouldn't be worthy either.

[Bardo]

sorry, I was under the impression that a legacy event should "belong" to legacy players. its not just pros I have an issue with, its anyone who doesnt play legacy in general.
As frogboy mentioned above, the format does not belong to us. It is just a format (maybe one of many) that people enjoy. We have no claim to it. And any random Joe, pro player or frequent poster on this site has every right to enjoy it as anyone else. To think otherwise is provincial and kind of arrogrant.

As I mentioned above, knowledge of a format is only one of many skills that a tournament tests (others being knowledge of rules and card interactions, time/operations management, deck selection, improvisational thinking, pattern recognition, bluffing, reading your opponent, etc.). If someone just focuses on one of these things, they're not going to do well in any tournament, regardless of format.

[Seriously]

Sure it would have been cool for a Legacy die-hard to win, but I do not understand having negative feelings towards a "pro" for winning a tournament.

no, because if a legacy "pro" would have won, then I wouldnt really care or be making these points. I have absolutely zero interest in who the most skilled magic player overall is, just the most skilled legacy players are. you might say that there is no difference, but I think that there is. I read about legacy players on a legacy forum playing legacy decks, thats what I have interest in. if this nassif guy is one of the top players in the world and one of the most skilled, then whats the point of making the GP an open tournament. why dont they just gather the top 32 or so active players in the world and have them play a legacy tournament, I cant really see that as being any different.

[xfrt]

no, because if a legacy "pro" would have won, then I wouldnt really care or be making these points. I have absolutely zero interest in who the most skilled magic player overall is, just the most skilled legacy players are. you might say that there is no difference, but I think that there is. I read about legacy players on a legacy forum playing legacy decks, thats what I have interest in. if this nassif guy is one of the top players in the world and one of the most skilled, then whats the point of making the GP an open tournament. why dont they just gather the top 32 or so active players in the world and have them play a legacy tournament, I cant really see that as being any different.

Please make a new thread about this nonsense if you want to discuss it.
This thread is for sure the wrong one to post your opinions about pro's vs Joe, neither does the format belongs to you.

[Seriously]

As frogboy mentioned above, the format does not belong to us. It is just a format (maybe one of many) that people enjoy.

apparently Im the only person on a legacy forum that thinks people playing in a legacy tournament should be legacy players. and be people who care about and try to advance the format. not just those in it for financial gain, no matter what their skill level.

:frown:

[Seriously]

Please make a new thread about this nonsense if you want to discuss it.
This thread is for sure the wrong one to post your opinions about pro's vs Joe, neither does the format belongs to you.

well its not like theres anymore live coverage going on that my posts are going to cause you to miss out on. doesnt your junk opinion post take up as much space as junk opinion post. how is you saying the opposite of what I am have any more validity. find me another 'discussion' thread that doesnt wander off from its original topic at some point or another.

[thickasabrick]

why dont they just gather the top 32 or so active players in the world and have them play a legacy tournament, I cant really see that as being any different.

Because then brassman wouldn't have come in second place? You REALLY can't see the difference?

[Seriously]

Because then brassman wouldn't have come in second place? You REALLY can't see the difference?

I was being facetious, they do that already. its called the pro tour, its for pro players.


The Pro Tour (PT) is the highest form of competitive play for the Magic: The Gathering collectible card game. It consists of a series of payout tournaments held throughout the world, each requiring an invitation to participate... Ranking within the Top 8 of a Pro Tour is considered to be the ideal accomplishment of most competitive Magic players.

if one is such a 'pro' player, playing the highest for of competitive magic, then why stoop lower and play a format you dont like with less skilled players ? I think I found my own answer, also on wikipedia.


Players are awarded Pro Players Club levels, depending on the amount of Pro Points they have collected in a given season. Club members are awarded special benefits:

Level 7 (40): Level 4 benefits; player receives $1750 for appearance at any Pro Tour; player receives $250 appearance fee at any Grand Prix; free travel ticket to all Pro Tours.
Level 8 (50): Level 4 benefits; player receives $2250 for appearance at any Pro Tour; player receives $500 appearance fee at any Grand Prix; free travel ticket to all Pro Tours; free accommodation at all Pro Tours.


so, in a sense, they're almost 'hired' to show up, after all they are magics 'celebrities'.

[bruno_tiete]

That and the fact that its worth money, but I believe mainly for the Pro Points, which decide their Pro Players Club level for the next season.

They are right to play. It's too much at stake to stay home watching tv.

[sauce]

if i was a pro player, i would go play at every big event too. after all, why wouldn't i???

sure it would be nice for a "legacy" player to win, but in reality, the pros are just better than any legacy player because they've seen it all in diff formats, and legacy is just diff cards w/ similar interactions.

sure they may not know every legacy trick in the book and every single deck, but they know enough to not lose.

i think the pros chose to player counterbalance & top for a few reasons, number 1, you don't have to "know" what to counter, you just top in response to the cb trigger and counter everything possible for "free." and obviously it lets you not even know all of the archtypes and still "oops i win" most of the time cuz of cbtop.

nassif winning against dragon stompy is just sick though.

[frogboy]

play a format you dont like

I <3 Magic and am pretty apathetic as to what format I'm playing. Battling is fun. Battling for money is even sicker.

[troopatroop]

apparently Im the only person on a legacy forum that thinks people playing in a legacy tournament should be legacy players.

There is no such thing as a "Legacy Player". Thats a personal identification. We are Magic players who play this format by choice. You may identify yourself as a legacy player, but there is no way to make this distinction about someone else, or to hold other players to this criteria. You have no right to tell a magic player that they have no right winning games of legacy simply because they play other formats.

This is a game of skill. Gabriel Nassif is a better player than you. You don't just get declared a pro. You have to earn it, and you'd better believe there is some intense criteria to qualify for that money you've pointed out. Do you even know how many people actually make level 7 and 8? The free travel to Pro Tours doesn't stick out to you as a bigger deal than $250?

By your criteria, I could claim that you're not a legacy player either.

Warned for Flames. You've crossed the line on this one. Keep it a whole lot more civil next time. ~ Nightmare

[Anusien]

Are you honestly trying to diminish Gabriel Nassif's accomplishments because he's a pro? Doesn't the fact that some guy who hasn't played Legacy in like three years can win the GP make his accomplishments more significant, not less?

[Forbiddian]

There is absolutely no problem with that hypothetical situation.

There *IS* something wrong with that hypothetical.

That is a local gun tournament. I think I'd feel a little cheesed off if pro players showed up at a local FNM and went 1, 2, 3, 4.

But the analogy fails because GP: Chicago is anything BUT local. People were flying in from all over, "die hard legacy players" included. It seems like half the people from The Source got on a plane and went over.

If anything, Chicago locals should be pissed off that a website full of elite players showed up and beat them all up (more than they should be pissed off at the pros).


EDIT
apparently Im the only person on a legacy forum that thinks people playing in a legacy tournament should be legacy players. and be people who care about and try to advance the format. not just those in it for financial gain, no matter what their skill level.

:frown:

Whether he posted on The Source or kept the tech secret to himself, Gabriel Nassif did just advance the format. Look at his deck (although apparently mainly it's LSVs, it doesn't detract from pro accomplishments). It's way better than 99% of the bullshit that gets posted here. Unlike most people who have budget constraints or CBFd testing all the available cards and just play some deck with "all the best undercosted cards" like Team America. It took people months and years to create Team America, and to fine tune Landstill, and Threshold. In like a week, Gabe Nassif made a deck that's actually clearly better than those decks.

Gabe Nassif found, in a week of testing all the crap that took me months to dig out and test. Obviously he's better at Magic AND at Legacy than I am. Check his board again, he has answers to very diverse decks and I'm sure he knows how to board against them.


Look at his deck again, and his board again, because I'm sure that the deck he proposed is going to be a powerhouse in Legacy for a while.

Sower of Temptation was widely rejected from people on TS.



Creatures (14)
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
2 Trygon Predator

Was a standard creature base during a GP:C Trial. More importantly, Nassif's mana base is also better than the other guy's. UGwb, people are trying to run 18 land. WTH?


If you don't think a transition from 18 --> 20 land, standardizing 3 daze, standardizing 4/4 Counterbalance/Top, MD 1 Kgrip, Vedalken Shackles in the main, running a totally unused 4-drop, and creating a better sideboard than anybody else is a contribution to Legacy, you're horribly mistaken.

[Aggro_zombies]

apparently Im the only person on a legacy forum that thinks people playing in a legacy tournament should be legacy players.
They are, by definition. If you're participating as a player in a tournament for the Legacy format, you are playing Legacy: a Legacy player.

Also, you're losing this argument.


By the way, Andy lost game 2 in part because Nassif is just better than him and managed to manuver Andy into getting his Krosan Grip countered by Counterbalance. I talked to Nassif about this and Nassif is just an amazing player and was like three steps ahead.
Did you interview Nassif, or just talk to him casually? I'm really interested to hear what he has to say about the tournament and the format.

If you write an article about it, I swear I won't complain.

[Omega]

If you make an Event OPEN, everyone has the right to participate. You can't argue that. If you do, then we live in different world, or you simply just don't understand the word OPEN.

GP Chicago, although Legacy, was an OPEN event, not invitational. It was OPEN OPENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
So everyone has the right to play. Ok?
And since everyone has the right to play, PROS do too, since they are also "everyone"

Even David Caplan recognized that Nassif played well against him in T8. He's not a Legacy player. But he's a Magic Player, like any of us

Robert

[PhanTom_lt]

As far as I know, there were no Sourcers taking top8 spots in previous GPs, right? You always said it would be nice to have someone place well, afterall they are good players. And here you go, get some dudes in there, and are still not happy that one of the current best players overpowered your fellows?

[URABAHN]

I don't necessary agree with Seriously, but maybe I can offer a little perspective. Legacy's best and brightest players come here, play in events advertised here, build decks here, and discuss ideas here. Can we all agree with that? I don't know how many people from upstate NY or Mass or the Great Lakes area made Day Two (VA had Zero), but I don't think it was many. Legacy's best and brightest got beat. They were beat by professionals who get paid to play Magic and I'm sure more than a few were knocked out of contention by amateurs. Goobafish kicked ass and it took the previous week's Pro Tour Champ to take him down. I don't think anyone predicted an All-Source Top 8, much less one person from these forums to make it that far, and if you did, you probably drink too much. When you put in X amount of work and in the end just get beat senseless (BJ Penn) by someone you might consider a stranger to this format (Brock Lesner vs. Randy Couture), I can see how you can get upset or even sad.

[Omega]

You can be upset. I am too. I would have preferred seeing David Caplan beating Nassif. Maybe then, Nassif would say : Oh, I got beaten by a non-pro. What did I do wrong? What did he did that made me lost?
But because David lost Nassif, he too can learn something from the pro. What did he do to lose the game? Was it all due to luck? Was it because Nassif played perfectly while he made some mistakes? etc etc

That said, being upset is not the same thing as holding insane arguments like "Seriously" (No harm intended).

[CynicalSquirrel]

This trash talking of Nassif is absurd. Legacy players seem to be unbelievably arrogant for thinking that these pros somehow owe something to us, that it's not only enough for them to show up and support our format, but that they also need to "love" the format and know everything about it.

A top 8 full of mostly unknown (to the outside MTG world) Sourcers would not be nearly as good for the format as having a well known guy like Nassif take it down. I'm surprised people really thought that top Legacy players would compete with guys like Nassif -- he's simply better at MTG than pretty much anyone. There's no shame losing to him, and I think his win put Legacy in the spotlight much more than if a random sourcer had won.

[Jujuhawk]

is it just me or is anyone else kind of saddened from the outcome of all of this. I am an ex casual player who has slowly been becoming a legacy player over the last two years now. home drama and friend/magic player drama kept me from going to the GP. but I had my heart set on it, I would have really liked to have gone.

its been crazy exciting refreshing the page every few minutes since yesterday, to check all the pairings and rounds and whose playing who info. I didnt know a whole lot about this event, just a few friends and some people that I talk to online who would be playing ended up going.

through reading on the site and keeping up with everything going on with this GP. I started seeing a lot of names and interviews with people who I'd never heard of. apparently they are all big 'pros' in magic, but Im not even sure what that means. like they're pretty good at standard events or something ?

from reading the source, near daily, from the time I wake up until the time I go to sleep. I rarely see anything posted on this forum from one of these magic 'pros'. instead I see pages and pages of hard work and information about deck building, playing and strategy, posted here, for free for everyone else to read and contribute too. I see a lot of these people answer many questions from others all through out the day and explain things to them. do the pros have a place like this out their own that they call home, like we do here at the source ?


so this morning was when I relized that what I had assumed was wrong. I had assumed that the players playing in this event would all be legacy players. but apparently that is not the case, apparently anyone can come along and join this GP and play away, who cares if they care about legacy or not. this is the feeling that Im got today. who cares about legacy, when its just a stepping stone to money, fortune and fame. I feel as if a stranger in my land has come from out of nowhere and crowned himself the king. and when the money is gone and the fame is fading, when something new offers things much more promissing, he will be gone as quickly as he came. and the kingdom will fall back to the people once again and they shall rejoice.


:frown:

I agree, It's ridiculous that someone who is better at magic than everyone on this forum won. I'm offended at his sideboard also, he's definately mocking legacy players.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Seriously, it's absurd to bash him so much for making mistakes, especially when his experience in this format is so small. He's better than pretty much everyone, get over it.

It's like this format is a lifestyle to people, and the shit that spews out of some peoples mouths is absurd.

[center425]

I don't understand this idea that legacy is somehow separate from the rest of magic. Its not.

[Phoenix Ignition]

no, because if a legacy "pro" would have won, then I wouldnt really care or be making these points. I have absolutely zero interest in who the most skilled magic player overall is, just the most skilled legacy players are. you might say that there is no difference, but I think that there is. I read about legacy players on a legacy forum playing legacy decks, thats what I have interest in. if this nassif guy is one of the top players in the world and one of the most skilled, then whats the point of making the GP an open tournament. why dont they just gather the top 32 or so active players in the world and have them play a legacy tournament, I cant really see that as being any different.

What's the point of making 8 swimming events in the Olympics that are almost exactly the same so Phelps can win everything?

It's a game of skill, and it's not like anyone else winning is going to pull in more players to Legacy. That's my main goal is to have Legacy become better loved and more popular, maybe this way people will see it takes playskill to win, unlike common misconceptions.

It stings a little when someone comes in and steals a deck build and wins with it, but he didn't. His list isn't even on the Source (until now I suppose), so I really don't think this makes a difference.

Also, as for the "gun tournament" analogy, if it was the only national gun tournament held for 2 years, I wouldn't be surprised if the special forces came in and won it. I would have been glad to watch the amazing skill.

[Sek'Kuar]

@ Seriously
Does this mean that just because a champion fisherman appears in Field and Stream, that he shouldn't try to shoot the biggest buck he can find during deer season? this entire thread is silly. You should be thankful that there are people helping to broadcast the name of Legacy, not letting it fade into oblivion. Should a pro player not play EDH because he is a pro? Use some logic, man, you're smarter than this.

[Damoxx]

I read the thread. Still can't find a point...

[Fons]

I was being facetious, they do that already. its called the pro tour, its for pro players.



if one is such a 'pro' player, playing the highest for of competitive magic, then why stoop lower and play a format you dont like with less skilled players ? I think I found my own answer, also on wikipedia.



so, in a sense, they're almost 'hired' to show up, after all they are magics 'celebrities'.


I don't consider myself a legacy player I play any format I can if there was an extented tournament near me tommorow I would play in it. I don't understand why you would care if the player played legacy and legacy alone that seems dumb. Nassif winning the GP is good for the format pro players have a big influence on the game. With the large turnout hopefully there will be a legacy gp next time around.

[Nightmare]

This thread is straight up retarded. The only thing that can come of Nassif's win is MORE attention and MORE support for Legacy.

In my opinion, as someone who was, you know, actually there, and has played this format for as long as it's existed, I thank the shit out of every pro who even decides to show up at a Legacy GP. They make the event worth playing at. Good god, if I ever went to play at a constructed GP I would get BLOWN THE FUCK OUT by Nassif. If I sit across from him playing Legacy, at least I've got the opportunity to beat him at my game (figuratively speaking) and perhaps even learn a few things should I lose. That's why I go to Legacy GPs.

I've pretty much had it with this thread, and many, many others that have come out of the GP, so I'm locking this.

[Peter_Rotten]

I fully support this locking. The "my-format-fuck-the-pros" attitude is so last year.