[Article] Legacy's Allure - Grand Prix: Chicago Overview

[Eldariel]

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/17195_Legacys_Allure_Grand_Prix_Chicago_Overview.html

Doug Linn spends three sentences going over Grand Prix: Chicago and gets reprimanded by Craig (Stevenson). Read up! Oh, contents? He covers his own list and performance.

[Nightmare]

It was fine, but it was short. I guess that's cause you only played five rounds though, huh?

SICK BURN

[hi-val]

I beat a hard matchup and lost an easy one. Unfortunately, there were no Demigods floating around : \

[C.P.]

I beat a hard matchup and lost an easy one. Unfortunately, there were no Demigods floating around : \

Hey, don't say that, Mr. Nightmare will tell you otherwise.

[mercenarybdu]

Proof from one of our outspoken voices of this format that Gifts is playable alongside Intuition.

Who would've known?

After so much time of nearly everyone claiming "it wasn't much of a great card in this format". Still an awesome card for half the price of Intuition.

[Forbiddian]

Proof from one of our outspoken voices of this format that Gifts is playable alongside Intuition.

Who would've known?

After so much time of nearly everyone claiming "it wasn't much of a great card in this format". Still an awesome card for half the price of Intuition.

Uh, it costs 1 more than Intuition.

OH, you mean MONETARY cost? LOL! You try to save money by swapping out a 6 dollar card? What are you doing trying to play blue if Intuition is out of your price range?

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Proof from one of our outspoken voices of this format that Gifts is playable alongside Intuition.

Who would've known?

After so much time of nearly everyone claiming "it wasn't much of a great card in this format". Still an awesome card for half the price of Intuition.

Doug Lin going 2-3 really makes me reconsider a card's viability.

No, but seriously, are you a gimmick account, or, what?

[jazzykat]

Maybe I missed it but what is Gifts doing that intuition isn't...netting you two cards. Singletons, Daze, waiting...blah blah blah. This has already been beaten to death.

I think Doug gave it a shot but I can't believe Meandeck (I assume they are still around) wouldn't have given him something better to play.

The article was good.

For the record: In case anyone missed that I do not like gifts in Legacy, for my time and money Intuition is plain better.

[hi-val]

I'm still working around with Gifts. The mana is seriously not a problem; you don't need or want to be casting something on turn 3 that doesn't directly affect the board or hand anyway. The other issue is making Gifts less gimmicky, which is what my original (and unpublished because it's BAD) list suffered from.

Regarding my record, I would have had a much better shot for two of those matches if I dropped Oona for Worm Harvest and Wasteland for Dust Bowl. I don't think my record is conclusive either way.

Gifts is a really, really strong card (obv, right?). I think the reason I run it is that I *do* get two cards. In Rock-style decks, especially against Countertop decks, you've got to 2-for-1 every chance or else you'll get buried under their top in the long term. Gifts getting me two kill spells or two beaters or similar is really relevant, most of all because the extra mana doesn't matter a whole lot and the costing 4 goes a long way to beating Counterbalance decks. Even snagging an extra land when I get "3 lands 1 Harvest" (which will be on YouTube soon) means about 6 more Worms.

We had several decklists on Meandeck for the event and I felt I wanted to play something I had testing for and that didn't bore the brains out of me like NLU does. The prevalence of burn in Chicago was also a little unsettling.

I'm still going to work on it a bit, but you won't be saddled with lots of articles about it unless I win big : )

[memnarch]

Good luck I think gifts is a great card. Getting card advantage does make in slightly better then intuition, although more expensive. So its somewhat of a later game bomb. The fact its an instant is great though because it can set you up for counter magic or eot shenanigans.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

The mana is seriously not a problem; you don't need or want to be casting something on turn 3 that doesn't directly affect the board or hand anyway.

That is not an argument, sir.

1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 11th, 29th turns, 3 mana is STILL cheaper than 4. To act like the only advantage a 3cc card has over a 4cc card ends on the fourth turn is... mind-blowingly wrong.

I can't touch on the larger argument, but if that was one of the foundations for your stance, you should strongly reconsider where you're standing.

[Isamaru]

Good luck I think gifts is a great card. Getting card advantage does make in slightly better then intuition, although more expensive. So its somewhat of a later game bomb. The fact its an instant is great though because it can set you up for counter magic or eot shenanigans.

I like Gifts Ungiven because, even though it costs :3::u:, it lets you choose 4 cards with different names out of your library and show them to the opponent. They get to chose two to go to your graveyard which stinks, but then you get to keep two which is nice. Being an instant is great though because you can play it on their turn which can set you up for playing cards on your turn after theirs is finished.



Doug Lin going 2-3 really makes me reconsider a card's viability.

No, but seriously, are you a gimmick account, or, what?
hahahaha :smile:

[Pinder]

I like Gifts Ungiven because, even though it costs :3::u:, it lets you choose 4 cards with different names out of your library and show them to the opponent. They get to chose two to go to your graveyard which stinks, but then you get to keep two which is nice. Being an instant is great though because you can play it on their turn which can set you up for playing cards on your turn after theirs is finished.

I like it better when Dan does this. Credit for trying, I suppose, but it just doesn't have that ring to it.

[Anusien]

The thing I've liked about Gifts was A) That it's a 4, and B) you get to set up two Loam engines, instead of just one. Most Loam stacks you get Loam, support land and engine card (Stronghold + Shriekmaw, Ruins + EE). With Gifts you can set up two, like Stronghold + Shriekmaw + Raven's Crime.

[4eak]

A few Rock decks have used Gifts according to Deckcheck. I have to agree, Rock based GY recursive decks are likely the only place that one could viably play Gifts. I know I have enjoyed the Legacy Gifts decks I have played.

Gifts Ungiven merits play in two circumstances:


You are already playing Intuition and you need more of the tutor/GY-combo effect (Intuition 5-8).
You have an abnormal amount of singletons in your deck, allowing Gifts to setup multiple combos while also generating raw card advantage that could not be provided by Intuition.


Rock has a very wide variety of tools (arguably the widest), and Gifts can certainly do things in these lists that Intuition cannot. Assuming mana production is not the problem (often one of Rock's strongpoints), then the 1 mana difference between Intuition and Gifts can often be overlooked in favor of the card advantage and increased tutor capacity (not multiples of any given card, but definitely lots of smaller combos).

Barriers to Gifts play:


The mana cost.
Restriction to singletons
Recursive combos are usually 2-3 cards which can be accessed an entire turn earlier by Intuition, while the 4th card may just be taking up space.
Recursive combos themselves are usually the actual card advantage engines of the deck (negating some of the need to generate raw Card Advantage that would be seen by moving from Intuition to Gifts).
Gifts warps deckbuilding
Gifts can be a very skill intensive card to play correctly (a limitation on the number of pilots for the card/deck), often being much more complicated than Intuition.


There is certainly a fine line between a deck that has a very wide variety of answers and an inconsistent hodge-podge control deck. Gifts Ungiven walks (and teeters on) that line. I would also argue that as new sets add to the tools available to Legacy deckbuilders, Gifts becomes increasingly stronger over time. One day, it may see more play.


I didn't particularly care for Doug's build. But, I'm glad to see someone is trying to use Gifts. 4 tutored cards for 1 (avg 1cc per tutored card) is innately a good card trade on paper; don't be surprised if a Gifts deck one day becomes viable.






peace,
4eak

[hi-val]

That is not an argument, sir.

1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 11th, 29th turns, 3 mana is STILL cheaper than 4. To act like the only advantage a 3cc card has over a 4cc card ends on the fourth turn is... mind-blowingly wrong.

I can't touch on the larger argument, but if that was one of the foundations for your stance, you should strongly reconsider where you're standing.

Perhaps I should clear up what I was trying to say. Sure, the 4th mana still exists, but when I am casting the Gifts, the extra cost is outweighed by the extra card I get from it. Since the deck aims to play a land every turn and usually can curve out that way thanks to Top, the mana cost is a lot less of an issue than it might appear to be. I'm kind of flummoxed about why you chose that point to be one that shatters my argument, especially when there's more low-hanging fruit than that!

[4eak]

@ hi-val

To bring back Anusien's point:

Do you have a reason you didn't run Life from the Loam and Raven's Crime? Not running singletons of those in Gifts Rock might be a crime; they are auto-includes. I've absolutely loved having Loam and Raven's Crime in my Gifts Rock decks. They solve lots of problems, and they are huge pressure against lots of decks.

You have Witness/Volrath's, a singleton Wasteland, and a mana-base to cover this. Loam would have rocked in those Gifts, and Crime is stunning alongside it.





peace,
4eak

[hi-val]

I had them originally, but I found that I'd often get Counterbalance-locked by them or that I could get it set up but when it was too late to matter. I'd go back to evaluating them again, but it doesn't really go that far to stop Cbal and things like Sower that can give the deck problems.

Loam/Crime is probably a fine sideboard option, if nothing else.