[Deck] Insanity Wood

[Nihil Credo]

// Lands
4 Mishra's Factory

4 Windswept Heath
4 Savannah / 3 Savannah + 1 Wooded Foothills
2 Horizon Canopy

4 Forest
1 Bayou
4 Plains
1 Flagstones of Trokair / Tundra

// Creatures
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Eternal Witness
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

// Spells
3 Engineered Explosives
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Path to Exile
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Harmonize
3 Wrath of God

2 Open Slot (see below)
Gameplan: survive the early game with cheap removal and Tarmogoyf as a blocker. Then start accumulating CA with four-drops + Witness and card quality with Divining Top. Mop up, usually with the help of Planeswalker pumps. All told, very straightforward.

Mana: 24 lands + 1 or 2 mana fixers work well enough; 25 would be comfy and certainly possible, especially if the extra land is a Canopy or a utility land (colours aren't an issue). The balance between the various types of lands could be tweaked a bit, for example by replacing a Savannah with a Wooded Foothills to get an extra shuffle effect for Top, but I haven't felt the need yet and Stifle is a world of hurt. Flagstones are debatable, but I'm more concerned about Devastating Dreams/Sinkhole/Smallpox/Armageddon than Blood Moon/Back to Basics or game 1 Humility/Moat.

Goyf: In theory, the two-drop in this deck should probably be something that provides either cards or mana - think Wall of Blossoms/Roots, Steward of Valeron, Heart Warden, Mind Stone, etc. But as long as people keep playing Tarmogoyf, Tarmogoyf is the only good defence creature other than Thornweald Archer. On the plus side it makes it less likely that you go to time, and against aggro 3-4 points of power are significantly better than either a card or a land drop.

Harmonize: 4 is a tad clunky, but better than 3: I want to cast them every game multiple times.

Elspeth: With two it shows up a bit less than I'd like, but it's better than when I had three and it would clog my hand.

Candidates for the last two slots: Edge of Autumn, utility lands (Haven, Bowl, Mutavault), cycling lands, Oblivion Ring, Krosan Tusker, Krosan Grip, Eternal Dragon, Regrowth, Scepter of Dominance, the 3rd Elspeth, the 4th Path to Exile, Aura of Silence, Gaea's Blessing, Rune of Protection: Red/Green. I've tried all of them except for Dragon, Ring, Regrowth, and RoP. It's really hard to gauge, but given that the most common way to lose involves stumbling on land drops, I believe there should be either lands or multiple-use manafixers here.

// Sideboard
SB: 4 Aura of Silence
SB: 3 Pulse of the Fields
SB: 3 Choke
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Life from the Loam

It should be obvious that I don't plan to beat storm combo. You could sideboard a large number of hate cards starting with 4 Duress, 4 Ethersworn Canonist (Gaddock Teeg is too big a liability), as well as adding some extra fetches or black sources, but I'm pretty sure you'd be losing in terms of expected returns.

As for the cards here... Aura of Silence is totally insane and comes in against half the format (yes, it's better than Krosan Grip). Pulse of the Fields (Ajani is too slow) and the graveyard hate are straightforward and much needed. Choke might be done without, but blue is so common these days that it's a very good investment. Loam is a prayer-tutorable answer against Sinkhole decks, which generally won't board graveyard hate against you.



How to play vs...

Note: the open slots are also often sided out.

Counterbalance: Start by playing aggressively, casting all your 1- and 2-cc spells, if necessary on lesser targets, before Counterbalance comes down. This will buy you time to start chaining Witnesses, which have a good chance of resolving, and various four-drops which are almost guaranteed to resolve. Don't be too hasty to EE away the Balance, it's generally better to save them for something like Shackles, or to get a two-for-one.

Bring in Choke first and then any number of Aura of Silence, siding out first PtE and then possibly StP or Wrath depending on how many creatures they run and of which kind.

Landstill: If they only play 4x Standstill, as is likely, you have good chances of winning the attrition fight thanks to Witness and Planeswalkers. If they drop one early, wait a bit to break it so you can start with your four-drops, but not long enough that you risk getting blown out by Decree of Justice. You can beat both Humility and Moat with the help of Planeswalkers, but if you expect to see a lot of Landstill the MD Tundra is a good idea.

Bring in the full Aura of Silence and Choke for the Wraths and Paths. It's rather easy from that point on.

Tempo Thresh: There is huge correlation between making your land drops and winning; focus everything on that. Bring in Choke and Relic for a mix of Harmonize and Wrath, depending on their threat selection.

Dreadstill: Halfway between the two above (shocking, I know). Cut Wrath and Elspeth for Aura and Choke.

Merfolk: It works pretty much the same as Tempo Thresh; overall it's a bit better because their extra creatures are easier to deal with than discard or burn (and they often lack Stifle as well).

Aggro Loam: Play four lands and sandbag the rest in case of Devastating Dreams, unless it will make your clock significantly faster or you have Garruk in play; after that, it's not difficult to kill all their stuff and then kill them, particularly since your CA engine is almost as good as theirs, but you run better cards. Side out Explosives unless they have Chalice, in which case side out Wrath.

Goblins: Save up a removal spell for Siege-Gang Commander which is positively lethal. The rest of the game-play is straightforward; it's difficult to keep up with the really busted draws, but you can handle anything less than that - and sometimes you too get to draw 4x Tarmogoyfs and a bunch of StP/PtE. Incidentally, it's always true but especially here, if you have to play an early Path then for the love of Satan don't mainphase it.

Ichorid: Never actually got to play against this one, but it should be unfavoured since you will mostly have to do the job with your spells under 2cc, although not hopeless since they can do the job with a tad of luck.

Survival Elves: On the surface it looks similar to Goblins, but it actually turns out it's much worse, especially since Elvish Champion and Survival are both death sentences. Try to get max juice out of your Wraths and Witness them back any chance you get. Side out your Explosives for Aura of Silence.

Sligh/Burn decks: Go for the throat and preserve your life total above anything else; Garruk, next to Tarmogoyf, is your best card in this match, racing them with Overrun if left unmolested or absorbing a couple of Bolts. However, if they open with Lava Spike, just scoop without showing them your deck and move to game two where you can hope on a near auto-win off Pulse of the Fields. Aura of Silence also needs to come in in case they have Sulfuric Vortex.

Storm Combo: Snacktime!

[Carabas]

What is the tundra for? Faking landstill?

[Nihil Credo]

What is the tundra for? Faking landstill?
EE@4, should the need arise. Which so far never has for me.

[from Cairo]

Is there something that makes this deck more desirable than a traditional mid-late game The Rock build? It looks more or less in that archetype only with StP/PtE/WoG in place of Thoughtseize/Edict/Deed, and more Planeswalkers instead of more guys. I mean I guess it's different, but is all the focus on Creature removal superior to the more diverse answers of Discard and Deed?

^Not meant as a criticism really, the deck looks fun to play, just more curious what motivated it.

[Nihil Credo]

Is there something that makes this deck more desirable than a traditional mid-late game The Rock build?
The card advantage engine is just plain better than discard when you've set out to play control. Top, Harmonize, and Witness can be run in Rock lists, of course, but I don't know of anyone who does. More on this below.
Pernicious Deed is a perfect example of versatility at the price of expense. Using it as a Wrath - which is what it most often is, unless you run Tombstalker - is usually very painful tempo-wise; Krosan Grip in everyone's sideboard and some maindecks makes it even more awkward (as if Stifle, Vindicate etc. weren't enough). Throw in that every Counterbalance deck is bending over backwards to cover the 3cc slot and it's enough to make me much more interested in 4cc bombs, as long as I can build a decent early defence to survive up to there.Rephrasing: if I'm not going to focus on early pressure by playing threats like Doran or Tombstalker, then card drawing and filtering are vastly superior to discard except against burn and combo (and Control Rock already loses to both). And if I'm not going to abuse Pernicious Deed's asymmetry through expensive creatures, then Wrath is a vastly superior sweeper provided I have other ways to handle manlands (check) and annoying artifacts/enchantments (check).

Getting to the big picture: B/G/W and B/G decks have for months now only found success as aggressive/disruptive lists; I believe one of the bigger reasons the control lists don't work is that they lack a decent card advantage engine (Intuition/Loam is slow as fuck. Ask Deep6er why he plays no cycling lands in ITF). Once I outlined a list running plenty of card advantage and the cheap removal to support it, I really didn't see any great incentive to sacrifice either basics or Factories to run black mana in the deck.


^Not meant as a criticism really, the deck looks fun to play, just more curious what motivated it.The initial idea was to explore what I could do with Path to Exile in the format. I thought: what more expensive tools did a second 1cc removal spell let me get away with? This led me to something playable and not strictly inferior to any other deck I could think of, so I figured I'd post it.

[from Cairo]

Top, Harmonize, and Witness can be run in Rock lists, of course, but I don't know of anyone who does.

Not exactly Rock, but Raider Bob's Tombstone list did. I'd consider it to be in the same archetype as well, though maybe G(b)(w) control is too encompassing. Tombstone clearly has a more aggressive threat base. And can take the agro route of something like T1 Bird, T2 Seize Goyf, T3 Doran; where you're not trying to push any agro plan usually, more an attrition battle. Tombstone also runs Tombstalker, I agree that the high cmc threats are a clear plus to Deed over WoG and since your list isn't utilizing them, Deed is often a more resource intensive WoG.


1CC
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thoughtseize
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Birds of Paradise

2CC
4 Tarmogoyf

3CC
3 Doran
3 Eternal Witness
2 Vindicate
3 Pernicious Deed

4CC
3 Harmonize
2 Snuff out

5CC
3 Lilliana Vess

8CC
2 Tombstalker

Land
7 Fetchlands
4 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savanah
5 Basics
1 Volrath's Stronghold





I really didn't see any great incentive to sacrifice either basics or Factories to run black mana in the deck.


I can see this. Your mana base looks solid, and Mishra's obviously have nice synergy with WoGs and help with Tarmogoyf to serve as means to draw out the game to the mid-late game without dedicating slots to walls or w/e.

[Pinder]

[I]Candidates for the last two slots: Edge of Autumn, utility lands (Haven, Bowl, Mutavault), cycling lands, Oblivion Ring, Krosan Tusker, Krosan Grip, Eternal Dragon, Regrowth, Scepter of Dominance, the 3rd Elspeth, the 4th Path to Exile, Aura of Silence, Gaea's Blessing, Rune of Protection: Red/Green. I've tried all of them except for Dragon, Ring, Regrowth, and RoP. It's really hard to gauge, but given that the most common way to lose involves stumbling on land drops, I believe there should be either lands or multiple-use manafixers here.


Why not Loam in the maindeck? You have Canopy for CA and you can also use it to recur Mishra's and consistently make land drops via fetches. Also, if Loam makes it in it might be worth it to consider Wasteland as maybe a one- or two-of.

[ScatmanX]

I think in this deck Crucible of Worlds would beat Loam, but even then, I guess I wouldn't recomend it. It is not needed. You have enough CA already.

Guess for those free slots (and maybe one more) I'd try Edge of Autumn. You have so many good 4 drops,way not lay them 3rd turn? And late game, the card replaces itself so, give it a shot.

[georgjorge]

If I'm not going to focus on early pressure by playing threats like Doran or Tombstalker, then card drawing and filtering are vastly superior to discard except against burn and combo (and Control Rock already loses to both).

Spot discard being a lot faster than drawing/filtering + playing the drawn cards matters not only if your deck is focussing on early pressure, but also against fast aggro/aggro-control. Witnessing back a card and then get it Forced instead of taking Force with Thoughtseize first, or drawing into more answers with Harmonize after the first ones got countered, seems like a great tempo loss, not to mention stuff that is easier to discard than to take care of after its played (Ringleader, Counterbalance, Standstill, Top etc). I understand the wish to maximize the number of relevant cards in the mid- to lategame, but it all looks kinda slow.

I like those non-blue Planeswalker control decks, but I'll keep testing Galois (with Trinket Mages) :smile: for now.

[Aggro_zombies]

When I saw the title, I instantly thought "Treefolk tribal! Wood, and the builder must be insane!".

I was sorely disappointed by the lack of even Doran. He seems good here, why not use him? There's also Kitchen Finks, which isn't too shabby.

[morgan_coke]

I read through your posted list five times before I was convinced that Volrath's Stronghold actually ISN'T in the deck. In the name of God why man?

Do you just hate yourself? You know, just 'cause some bully picked on you in high school is no reason to think you're not worth anything. I bet you're a great person. A special person. And you are a good enough human being to play good cards. Go you.

[Nihil Credo]

Why not Loam in the maindeck? You have Canopy for CA and you can also use it to recur Mishra's and consistently make land drops via fetches. Also, if Loam makes it in it might be worth it to consider Wasteland as maybe a one- or two-of.

As a maindeck tool, Loam falls short when compared to a landcycler. With less than eight fetchlands it's unlikely that a turn two (or even 3-4) Loam will provide card advantage. In the late game, Loam/Canopy is ridiculously slow (even if I took the pain to add more Canopies to consistently get 2-3), and I'd rather have a deathless 5/5 flier or even a 6/5 than a couple of recurring Assembly-Workers.


Guess for those free slots (and maybe one more) I'd try Edge of Autumn. You have so many good 4 drops,way not lay them 3rd turn? And late game, the card replaces itself so, give it a shot.

I actually spent a good amount of time with a configuration running 3 Edges of Autumn as well as two extra Flagstones of Trokair, to better use the cycling. I can't say it was bad, it was just unimpressive for a couple of reasons: one, I often found myself spending turn two either using spot removal or playing and activating Top even with EoA in hand. Two, the mana acceleration was less useful than I expected; to take the most extreme example, even against Goblins you often don't actually want to drop Wrath on turn 3 as they only have one or two creatures in play. Even dropping a "blind" EE would have often been a more effective use of my mana.

I'm not dismissing the possibility that Edge of Autumn may still be the best option for the deck; however, unlike most of the other cards, it's not been good enough that I'm ready to call it a winner when there are still plausible candidates to test.


Spot discard being a lot faster than drawing/filtering + playing the drawn cards matters not only if your deck is focussing on early pressure, but also against fast aggro/aggro-control. Witnessing back a card and then get it Forced instead of taking Force with Thoughtseize first, or drawing into more answers with Harmonize after the first ones got countered, seems like a great tempo loss, not to mention stuff that is easier to discard than to take care of after its played (Ringleader, Counterbalance, Standstill, Top etc). I understand the wish to maximize the number of relevant cards in the mid- to lategame, but it all looks kinda slow.

That is a very good point; however, this is also the entire reason behind running 7-8 1cc removal spells plus Tarmogoyf (and sometimes EE). It means that I can reliably be under little or no pressure on turns 4-5, when I want to start casting Harmonize and Planeswalkers. Moreover, cheap discard spells would conflict in the curve with spot removal, since both of them want to be cast ASAP to be at their maximum effectiveness, whereas card drawing is often the last card to leave my hand.

You are also using the most extreme examples in favour of discard here. Discard is almost always a tempo loss: your opponent doesn't have to pay the mana he would have spent on the discarded card, which he instead gets to spend to play the second-best card in his hand one turn earlier. When compared to that, Harmonize doesn't look bad (1G per +1 CA, while both you and your opponent have to pay for your cards), while Witness tempo-pays for itself when necessary by blocking. The notable exceptions, which you correctly spotted, are Force of Will and Daze.

Your other relevant objection is that a well-timed discard spell is the only nonblue way to disable your opponent's card drawing. This is also true, but matching them in card drawing is just as effective a strategy; while more expensive (see above), it has the very significant advantage of working all of the time, rather than being useless against topdecks (or against a decent opponent with Divining Top).


I like those non-blue Planeswalker control decks, but I'll keep testing Galois (with Trinket Mages) :smile: for now.Heh. Trinket Mage isn't a bad idea in there at all. Are you going to post it somewhere?


When I saw the title, I instantly thought "Treefolk tribal! Wood, and the builder must be insane!".

I was sorely disappointed by the lack of even Doran. He seems good here, why not use him? There's also Kitchen Finks, which isn't too shabby.

Doran is clunky to cast with Factories in the deck, in addition to requiring an enlarged black splash. In the late game he's also smaller than opposing Tarmogoyf.

Kitchen Finks was considered, but it's tragically underpowered when I don't want to run either Cabal Therapy or Ajani Goldmane.


I read through your posted list five times before I was convinced that Volrath's Stronghold actually ISN'T in the deck. In the name of God why man?

Do you just hate yourself? You know, just 'cause some bully picked on you in high school is no reason to think you're not worth anything. I bet you're a great person. A special person. And you are a good enough human being to play good cards. Go you.

That was funny. And Stronghold is actually a pretty good suggestion - less because I can recycle Witness with it (eh) than because it Sudden Deaths an opposing Stronghold which is a fucking pain in the rectum. 'Course, Stronghold decks tend to run Loam, but delaying them a turn (or two or three, with Witness help) would have been enough in several situations. The card's in for the next batch of games.

[Anusien]

I had a lot of success with Ancient Tomb in some of my similar midrange decks. There's a big difference between a turn 3 and an a turn 4 Elspeth/Garruk.

I'm not convinced that Garruk does enough for you; just making 3/3s is sort of mediocre when they have some sort of board advantage that involves Tarmogoyfs.

I'm pretty sure that 7 StP effects is the sign that you need a different deck.

[klaus]

Yeah, you do need some sort of mana acceleration in the MD. How about good ol' Tribe Elder? His shuffle effect goes well with your Tops, too.

From my testing in other archetypes, I'm pretty positve Finks are MD-worthy. With 4 Elders in the MD, Ajani would seem like an even better SB choice, too.

Have you considered cutting EE for Aura of Silence? - Your creature hate suite is so hardcore that EE will be needed for A. o. S. targets primarily/exclusively. And since you seem to dig it anyway, why not give it a shot? This would free up some valuable SB slots.

[raharu]

I'm pretty sure that 7 StP effects is the sign that you need a different deck.

Really? I think it's a solid way to ensure your survival into the late game, which is a control deck's main aim. What if he ran 3-4 Smothers instead of PtE? Also, Nihil, why not do that? The land superiority seems... interesting, at least. Perhaps it's not as good. Certainly the quality of the removal is lower, but perhaps it's better against control decks, and maybe creature-combo such as alluren. Then again it's patently worse against Hulk combo. idk, both are rather irrelevant at the time, so I'm just musing and babbling now.

To speak concisely, I like the deck. Would Runed Halo be a good thought? It's good against combo and burn. And it cuts Ugr Tempothresh's reach off right at the knees.