[Early Discussion] Zendikar

[JeroenC]

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/153

I've thrown a quick glance, but found nothing about this so far. Is it possible that we have an artifact block after our multicolor block? It would give a nice little "rupture", and also give Wizards a chance to redeem the earlier brokenness of artifact blocks.

Why do I think this set (and probably block therefore) will be about artifacts?

Deadly Perils, Priceless Treasures.

As the "subscript" on the announcement. Am I insane?

[Giles]

Why do I think this set (and probably block therefore) will be about artifacts?


No. In a interview Roeswater said this this block as a brand new theme to it.

[Aggro_zombies]

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/153

I've thrown a quick glance, but found nothing about this so far. Is it possible that we have an artifact block after our multicolor block? It would give a nice little "rupture", and also give Wizards a chance to redeem the earlier brokenness of artifact blocks.

Why do I think this set (and probably block therefore) will be about artifacts?

Deadly Perils, Priceless Treasures.

As the "subscript" on the announcement. Am I insane?
You're probably reading too much into it. IIRC the subscript for Alara had something to do about one world in five parts, which would make most people think strong mono-color themes, not the tricolor shards we got.

The primitive stone of the logo could be used as an indication that this is the block Imperiosaur and Murganda Petroglyphs came out of. Poison block incoming?

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

... monocolor theme?

Or a land theme.

It does sound like a Land of the Lost, Indiana Jones/Lara Croft type adventure setting.

[leander?]

Or a land theme.
Hell yes. Lots of manlands and utilitylands. The rebirth of 43Lands? :)

[Jaynel]

I could definitely see a nonbasic land themed block which would fit with Imperiosaur (to play or not to play strong nonbasics, etc). Maybe some new hate or manlands.

[from Cairo]

New manlands would rule as long as they are better than the set from Urza's Legacy!

[majikal]

Priceless (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=33)Treasures?



...The sky is falling!

edit: Okay, maybe not moxen, but perhaps the return of alternate costs? Or even 0cmc spells with additional (tempo) costs? Nix was futureshifted, right?

[b4r0n]

I could definitely see a rebirth of poison. MaRo has been wanting to bring back poison for a while, and there's a lot of design space with poison as a central mechanic.

However, "Deadly Perils, Priceless Treasures" sounds like the tagline for a set about Pirates. Hmm...

[Iamfishman]

I could definitely see a rebirth of poison. MaRo has been wanting to bring back poison for a while, and there's a lot of design space with poison as a central mechanic.



And the futureshifted Virulent Sliver deals poison counters!!!

[bowvamp]

I imagine, although despise the idea, that they would make it an Indiana Jones type theme. What I think this will bring to the table is a bunch of "double target players poison counters, omg I winz!" jk. No, I believe that if it is Indy-based it will be about a power struggle. That means get out your control magics folks, it's time for a reprint! Although this is a pretty wacky hypothesis, it could work.

[mercenarybdu]

Lands + Colored Artifacts + Enchantments

that is all I could think about from the sound of the theme.

[Aggro_zombies]

Colored Artifacts
Oh god, I hope not. Colored artifacts were cute for about one set, then they just got annoying ("Why the fuck isn't this an enchantment? Jesus Christ, artifacts are supposed to be colorless!").

[Poesjuh]

No more colored artifacts, simply like they always were so you can play them in every deck you want.

[JeroenC]

I -hate- colored artifacts. I've hated them since FS and I still hate them. If you want colored artifacts, give them a colored activation cost, ffs. So please, no more of this nonsense.

[Skeggi]

Actually I liked the colored artifact creatures. I guess I'll burn in hell for this sin :cry:.

The 11th commandment: Thou shall not covet your neighbour's colored artifact. Or any colored artifact for that matter.

[GreenOne]

I'd love a theme that punishes you for playing non-basic lands. The design of Imperiosaur is, IMO, great, and I would not mind a 5/5 Trample guy for GG that can be paid only with basic lands. This would be a lot more interesting than Tarmogoyf.

Giving people good reasons to play basics other than Wasteland and Blood Moon is going to be healthy for the format: every deck could have huge weapons that can't be esily splashed by other colors to make the usual Goodstuff.dec (ITF, UGx counterbalance, etc) that in this format has so many variations.

Poison is nice, but rewarding for playing basics can be shaking for the format if the cards are powerful enough.

[Aggro_zombies]

Actually I liked the colored artifact creatures. I guess I'll burn in hell for this sin :cry:.

The 11th commandment: Thou shall not covet your neighbour's colored artifact. Or any colored artifact for that matter.
Don't worry, you can still be cured! (http://www.vu.nl/en/current-students/guidance-and-counselling/who-what-where/student-psychological-counselling-service-university/index.asp)

[Shtriga]

Yeah, it definitely looks an adventure-ish Mayan setting, like Tomb Raider or Indiana Jones. The logo, the symbol, and the tagline, it all makes sense to me. Poison is almost definitely making a comeback in my opinion, and it might have a strong artifact theme as well. I was hoping it was threshold, but doesn't look like it.

[kroelai]

Ancestral Recall would be fun in this set... only for the art... :D

[Jaynel]

From way back in 2004. (http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=19794.0)

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Actually, that's really weird. I was just thinking about how cool a Mayan/Aztec flavored setting would be this weekend. It also makes sense if they're trying to expand interest in the game amongst hispanics and in Latin America. Plus, it's a great opportunity to make White evil as fuck. A lot of the myths have fantastic flavor, too.

I just wonder how much they would tamp down the whole murder-cannibalism thing.

[Zach Tartell]

They shouldn't do a Latin American-themed block until 2012.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

That's dumb. We'll barely have gotten any spoilers on the first expansion at all when the World is destroyed by giant jaguars.

[Dan Turner]

They shouldn't do a Latin American-themed block until 2012.

That would definetly be the end of magic :tongue:

[Aggro_zombies]

That's awesome. We'll barely have gotten any spoilers on the first expansion at all when the World is destroyed by giant jaguars.
Fix'd. The first small set in a block has historically been sucky anyway.

[Maëlig]

PIRATES! Because MtG needs more/better cutpurses.


It also makes sense if they're trying to expand interest in the game amongst hispanics and in Latin America.
lol. Or maybe they put an ancient-Greece flavour to it to make the European more interested? Yeah, makes sense. :tongue:

[Shtriga]

From way back in 2004. (http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=19794.0)

Suddenly, the speculation from last page makes even more sense lol.

[Sek'Kuar]

I had strong speculation about the set being graveyard themed, but i would love the flavor of a non-basic land set. Imperiosaur and Muraganda Petroglyphs FTW.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

PIRATES! Because MtG needs more/better cutpurses.


lol. Or maybe they put an ancient-Greece flavour to it to make the European more interested? Yeah, makes sense. :tongue:

The game's already rampant with European-fantasy flavor, which is the primary basis of the game- hence angels, demons, elves, goblins, etc... You really don't think people become more interested in a game when it relates to their own personal background?

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

The game's already rampant with European-fantasy flavor, which is the primary basis of the game- hence angels, demons, elves, goblins, etc... You really don't think people become more interested in a game when it relates to their own personal background?


Boom! And yes, yes it does. Not suprisingly, people like things that they already know about/enjoy. See: Time Spiral.

I'm really hoping for a Aztec feel as well, although when it comes to hints from FS it feels like they already blew their wad on that by putting Nacatl and friends into Alara. But, even if we don't have cat people, there's always snake birds and such to potentially enjoy. And dinosaurs.

Touch of Quetzecotl
:g:
Target snake gets flying and poisonous 2 until EOT.

Obviously they wouldn't use a real life god (so to speak), but this idea is cool. Also hopefully a land subtheme.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

I would like the maya theme. They could give black lots of evil cards in the flavor of dark ritual. Making the term "sacrifice" more occult again.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

My understanding is that the black/green association with decay, disease, etc., would be more appropriate for those colors; mass human sacrifice, battle, cannibalism, were more regarded in the vein of red/white; blood was necessary to keep the established order of the world in motion, ala The Flower Wars (http://www.aztec-history.com/aztec-flower-war.html) and such.

[Seriously]

I would much rather see a medieval theme or pirate theme than I would a mayan or aztec theme. the whole asian theme with the champions block just made me want to play L5R instead.


however...

Ayahuasca
:0:
tap, sac: target player adds one mana of every color spinning in tiny circles to their field of vision while machine elves from another demension pop through a worm hole to enlighten him/her on how all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.

:eek:

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

Well, if we're really being picky, I think a Norse theme (with pirates, why not) would be the best. But anything that gets away from the multicolor madness is palatable for me at this point.

[Maëlig]

The game's already rampant with European-fantasy flavor, which is the primary basis of the game- hence angels, demons, elves, goblins, etc... You really don't think people become more interested in a game when it relates to their own personal background?
Do you really think many asian people picked up on magic with Kamigawa?
Besides, from what I know of it (read: I could be terribly wrong), the mayan/aztec folklor isn't that prevalent in Latin America, probably due to the continent recent-ish history.

[Ectoplasm]

I would much rather see a medieval theme or pirate theme than I would a mayan or aztec theme. the whole asian theme with the champions block just made me want to play L5R instead.


however...

Ayahuasca
:0:
tap, sac: target player adds one mana of every color spinning in tiny circles to their field of vision while machine elves from another demension pop through a worm hole to enlighten him/her on how all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.

:eek:

This was funny, until you ruined it with the blatant Bill Hicks quote :frown:
Apart from that I'm getting some pretty nice vibes from this logo at least, the little icon is obviously a gem and I hope we get some kind of mirage 2.0 style set filled with jungles, voodoo and tropical diseases.

Also, Mark Rosewater once wrote a column about Lorwyn and how it had some kind of treasure-digging mechanic, which later got axed and returned as a light-version with the hideaway lands. Maybe it'll show up in this block?

[grahf]

This was funny, until you ruined it with the blatant Bill Hicks quote :frown:


Eh, the part before that was a Terence Mckenna paraphrase, so...

Also, Zendikar reminds me of "Shandalar." Has a similar ring to it, at least. I have no idea what that could imply.

[rleader]

Also, Mark Rosewater once wrote a column about Lorwyn and how it had some kind of treasure-digging mechanic,

That's what I thought of too; maybe an alternate win condition block (poison, treasure, etc.).

Straight up dinosaur world would be cool, too.

http://www.owo.com/archive/ftp/maps/savage/savgmap.gif

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Do you really think many asian people picked up on magic with Kamigawa?

I don't know. I know that there were already quite a lot of Japanese Magic players, though. I doubt it would hurt the game to be less Euro-centric, though.

[MattH]

Well, if we're really being picky, I think a Norse theme (with pirates, why not) would be the best. But anything that gets away from the multicolor madness is palatable for me at this point.

Ice Age what?

[ParkerLewis]

Ice Age what?

Now that was a cool set.

Seriously, I'd like it if they were to redo this theme (although it's not looking like this is for the next block).

[Atwa]

Now that was a cool set.

Seriously, I'd like it if they were to redo this theme (although it's not looking like this is for the next block).

They already did that with Coldsnap. In my opinion it sucked.

[Sek'Kuar]

Too bad Ice Age had a multicolored sub-theme...:frown:


Now that was a cool set.
:really: I see what you did there...

[dahcmai]

I have been saying poison would be back for this set for a while. It's been hinted at over and over. Maro said he knew exactly which set was going to have the poison theme and considering how long ago that was compared to how far in advance they do sets, this would be the last one they could have known they would be doing that far back. It's time unless they start making set themes a lot further ahead than they mentioned in that article.

It's always been a controversial theme since a lot of people hate poison and think it's dumb or one sided. I do believe they can get it right and balance it out compared to normal cards. It will enable poison as a decent Legacy alternative or make it yet more cards for the casual pool and interesting one-sidedness in limited, but I think that might be good overall.

[memnarch]

I'd love a theme that punishes you for playing non-basic lands. The design of Imperiosaur is, IMO, great, and I would not mind a 5/5 Trample guy for GG that can be paid only with basic lands. This would be a lot more interesting than Tarmogoyf.

Giving people good reasons to play basics other than Wasteland and Blood Moon is going to be healthy for the format: every deck could have huge weapons that can't be esily splashed by other colors to make the usual Goodstuff.dec (ITF, UGx counterbalance, etc) that in this format has so many variations.

Poison is nice, but rewarding for playing basics can be shaking for the format if the cards are powerful enough.

You know maybe your right. I hope that new "mechanic" they are talking about is OG dual lands. If they are going to have all this color crap and build a standard format with no blood moon effects and no wasteland effects except that shadowmoor guy. But that cost 3 and can be countered like most everything else. A format where 5C control stomps face and rules king cuz there is no land regulation. I mean I really think as far as legacy is concerned though as long as we have dragon stompy and wasteland (as you can refer to most commonly played cards at the GP Chicago.) The lands will be in check as long as we have those blood moon effects and wastelands especially after the printing of LFTL. Colored artifacts is just ridicules though. I mean really Wizards its starting to look like your just out of ideas. Just print some solid cards and we will be happy.

[Facevaulter]

Deadly Perils + Priceless treasures= Mummies= Tombs= Delve = Tombstalker!

Theres an arguement here for an Egyptian based set. Bringing back poison and or delve would fit in nicely with an Adventure in the sand themed set. I get the mayan/inca thing but I feel my conjecture is just as valid.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

To know a set is going to be named Zendikar and expect it to have Mayan/Aztec/Inca flavour is like knowing somebody's name is John Smith and suspect he may be native from Kiribati, Vladivostok, Sri Lanka, Huixquilucan or you know, any other place where people normally don't use names like John Smith.

Zendikar doesn't sound Aztec or Mayan at all (not sure about Inca or Northamerican cultures but certainly not Mesoamerican ones) and i'm sure Wizards wouldn't make such a mistake, after all Kamikawa does sound Japanese and Ravnica has a slavic ring to it.

That said, it is reasonable to expect such a set given a couple of clues such as Wild Nacatl and Nacatl Pride. And i agree that 2012 is just more flavourful.

[Seriously]

This was funny, until you ruined it with the blatant Bill Hicks quote :frown:

I dont think inserting a bill hicks quote into anything has ever ruined it. anything + bill hicks = win. well unless its a doritos commercial...


Eh, the part before that was a Terence Mckenna paraphrase, so...

yeah, I wasnt sure if anyone else here would get that. bill hicks got me into mckenna to begin with.


:cool:

[memnarch]

It looks jungle themed from the stone. But the font looks vaguely familiar to sanskrit. I'm thinking jungle theme. Kinda like some of the stuff comming out in conflux like the Wild Nacatl in shards. I'm thinking they might bring back cats more.

[spiritmage788]

I think Threshold will be coming back, but not in the "traditional" sense. Since threshold cards were printed, they have all received errata. From the comp rules:

"Threshold used to be a keyword ability. It is now an ability word and has no rules meaning. All cards printed with the threshold keyword have received errata. Updated wordings are available in the Oracle card
reference."

Example: Oracle text of Nimble Mongoose's threshold ability:

"Threshold - Nimble Mongoose gets +2/+2 as long as seven or more cards are in your graveyard."

So, it's possible they will print "Threshold" abilities that are in effect for conditions other than having 7 in the yard. Maybe; "Threshold- This creature gets +1/+1 as long as you have 7 or more cards in hand." Or "Threshold- This creature gets +1/+1 as long as you control three or more enchantments."

[b4r0n]

I think Threshold will be coming back, but not in the "traditional" sense. Since threshold cards were printed, they have all received errata. From the comp rules:

"Threshold used to be a keyword ability. It is now an ability word and has no rules meaning. All cards printed with the threshold keyword have received errata. Updated wordings are available in the Oracle card
reference."

Example: Oracle text of Nimble Mongoose's threshold ability:

"Threshold - Nimble Mongoose gets +2/+2 as long as seven or more cards are in your graveyard."

So, it's possible they will print "Threshold" abilities that are in effect for conditions other than having 7 in the yard. Maybe; "Threshold- This creature gets +1/+1 as long as you have 7 or more cards in hand." Or "Threshold- This creature gets +1/+1 as long as you control three or more enchantments."

Changing Threshold to an ability word gives the mechanic flexibility, but I hope that they don't abuse that flexibility. For example, having multiple Threshold conditions in the same block would be confusing and would make Threshold into a relatively meaningless ability. However, establishing a new flavor for Threshold (e.g. "Threshold - This creature gets +3/+3 and gains deathtouch if you have 5 or more poison counters.") would pretty awesome. I could see that happening.

[JeroenC]

Threshold will always trigger on cards in the yard. Having the word threshold would be rather useless if they used if for any kind of instance. Then we could just replace Hellbent with Threshold as well.

[Pltnmngl]

I know it's being overshadowed by the drama as of late, but we're getting tons info on Zendikar. If you look at the rules change, he mentions the set involving the end step. 3 planeswalkers are confirmed to be in the set too.

[Malchar]

My initial thought about Zendikar was that it's gotta be a jungle/African/Caribbean theme due to the name and style of the graphic. There's definitely going to be some kind of color-matters theme since Wizards always has the neighboring blocks bleed into each other a little bit.

Honestly, what I first thought of was Zul'Gurub from WoW. This in addition to a few of the newer art pieces have me thinking that these two franchises are getting way too close for my comfort. Anyway, I'm sure the new set will be fine. I'm surprisingly not upset at all by the 2010 changes either; I'm just getting a little cautious is all.

[Michael Keller]

Deadly Perils + Priceless treasures= Mummies= Tombs= Delve = Tombstalker!

Theres an arguement here for an Egyptian based set. Bringing back poison and or delve would fit in nicely with an Adventure in the sand themed set. I get the mayan/inca thing but I feel my conjecture is just as valid.

I really think this is what drove the central theme home for Arabian Nights through The Dark. Those sets had almost an Earth-like feeling with cool treasures, mythologic depictions; things like that. And those to me were the coolest (and in some cases most powerful) sets ever printed.

[Captain_Morgan]

I'm thinking life probably, but I wonder if there will be an exiled thing with the whole "hidden treasures" bit. Since it's a whole zone now, Exile a bunch of cards and then go treasure hunting for "lost artifacts."

[Nightmare]

I want Mirage part 2. I think I'm getting it.

[DrJones]

I would love to see double-headed sharks and an army of monkeys.

[dirtyapes]

I think that Zendikar will be based around abilities like Wild Nacatl. With the printing of the new shitty dual lands, I think they want people to use basics at least on turn 1. Though it also makes be believe that they don't want anything more than 2 color decks. In which case they could reprint Wasteland for Standard.
They might also do poison just because they have it in the rules but it never gets used. I have stopped using much of any logic to wonder what Wizards might do next because they seem to be loose cannons at this point.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Mechanically, it's possible that this block uses both a mono-colored theme and a non-basic theme, with cards like Imperiosaur representing the mono-colored side. They could make it two opposed sides, only this time actually do it instead of like in Kamigawa.

[Mordel]

I don't know if it's still the same or not, but it has sort of a Greyhawk from D&D because my buddies and I spent all of our time in spooky wilderness or dungeon crawling. Rarely any cities and a sort of mish-mash of early native culture and medeival-type stuff.

I might be remembering stuff wrong though.

[MTG-Fan]

Maybe it will be a continuation of the Homelands saga. How aweseme would that be?

We could see stuff like the Sengir family, Joven's many tools and ferrets, and Chandler again! Chandler!

[Skeggi]

And Monica, Ross, Joey, Phoebe and Rachel!

[Anusien]

I want Mirage part 2. I think I'm getting it.
Visions?

[MTG-Fan]

Visions?

I think he means, he wants a Mirage-esque superblock all over again.

I for one wouldn't mind some more Djinns and Efreets, it's been a while since WOTC printed any of those.

[DrJones]

There is one Efreet confirmed in M10, and it sucks.

EDIT: M10 will also have a mysterious "Djinn of Wishes"

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I'm thinking what ideas would push a mono color theme, other than the obvious ones of putting a heavy color commitment in the mana cost. Limited will still require two or three colored decks.

Affinity for Plains/Islands/Etc. is one mechanic that could make a strong comeback and would be fun. A 4G 4/4 with Affinity for Forests, or 2G 2/2, are pretty basic vanilla versions that would still encourage monocolor in constructed while working in Limited. Then there's Nightmare/Coffers effects, or the Imperiosaur route.

Then there's good old' LD and non-Basic hate.

Although I'm wondering how far they'd push that kind of theme in the same Standard as Alara. Seems like it'd create a blatant Block vs. Block dynamic. Maybe next year. It'd be fun to see, though.

Land block seems like it could work as a bridge, though.

[mujadaddy]

Maybe "Affinity for Basic [Forest/Plains/etc.]" ... also, that 2/2 for 2G better have an ability. I do like the idea though.

[Mordel]

A mono colour expansion that revisits the old colour pie would be cool. Revisiting permission decks, suicide aggro, sligh, white weenie and stompy would be cool. Probably unlikely, but that may make me want to play standard again...it may make a lot of people want to play standard again.

Also, mirage was continued to an extent in many sets if only with the characters who were present. Going back to the dark medieval sort of fantasy roots of the game would be pretty cool.

[Anusien]

Affinity for Basic Lands works in the rules.

[keys]

I would love to see some viable mono colored decks that aren't tribal or based around Ancient Tomb and Chalice.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Affinity for Basic Lands works in the rules.

It doesn't really do much for Limited though.

[DragoFireheart]

I wonder... is this going to be a "dinosaur" set?

The whole stone-ageish look of the name is uncanny...

[MTG-Fan]

I wonder... is this going to be a "dinosaur" set?

The whole stone-ageish look of the name is uncanny...

Caveman tribal?

[mujadaddy]

Caveman tribal?

Alley Oop, The Game!

[DragoFireheart]

Caveman tribal?

Cave-Goblins?

[Skeggi]

Cave Goblins?

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/dk/63.jpg

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

Cave Elves = Drow...= MTG jumping the shark. No cave elves!