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morgan_coke
03-26-2009, 12:29 PM
This isn't my deck. It was created by Poppeleseed over on MTGSalvation. He played it in the MTGS Legacy tournament and made the T8, losing in round one. Following is the primer he wrote for it, copy/pasted from MTGS.

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When the FlashHulk deck became legal for legacy, I immediately fell in love with it. With the subsequent banning of Flash in legacy, I had to seek other places to get a fix. Vintage Flash was a blast for me: I both played it, and played to beat it. And then they restricted it in vintage. Looking at my playset of Protean Hulks, I decided that there must be something that could be done with them. Then I remembered the deck that took PTQ Minneapolis in ’08: Bubble Hulk.
I figured that a legacy adaptation of Bubble Hulk could be molded to behave more like Legacy/Vintage Flash. And here’s what resulted:

4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Protean Hulk
2x Carrion Feeder
1x Mogg Fanatic
1x Bile Urchin
2x Body Double
2x Reveillark

4x Seething Song
4x Sneak Attack
4x Through the Breach
4x Pact of Negation
4x Summoner's Pact

4x City of Traitors
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Taiga
8x Mountain

Sideboard
3x Defense Grid
4x Shattering Spree
4x Krosan Grip
4x Chalice of the Void

The concept of the deck is pretty simple. Get Sneak Attack or Through the Breach and Protean Hulk or Summoner’s Pact. Sneak the Hulk into play, and it dies at end of turn. Off of that trigger, you grab Body Double and Carrion Feeder, the Body Double copying the Hulk in the grave. Carrion Feeder eats the Double/Hulk, and the Double Hulk grabs Reveillark and either Mogg Fanatic or Bile Urchin. The Urchin or Fanatic throws itself at your opponent, Feeder eats the ‘Lark, and the ‘Lark grabs back Body Double and your damage guy. Body Double copies the Reveillark. Repeat the process from there.


The deck was built with a couple things in mind:
1. Counterbalance-Top is, and most likely will remain a house in Legacy. I attempted to keep the curve away from the CB "Danger Zone", which will explain the DragonStompy-esque mana base.
2. DragonStompy is (presently) relevant in Legacy. I built this deck with DragonStompy (or rather, any chalice stompy and any stax build) in mind, mostly because I have formally played both. Trinisphere, Chalice of the Void, Propaganda/Ghostly Prison and Blood Moon are of virtually no consequence to this deck.

The deck has evolved since this list, which was a makeshift build that I threw together for the 8th Salvation Tournament. As I played around with it more, I was able to find its weaknesses, and modify the deck to overcome them. Swords to Plowshares on Hulk, well timed bolt, countermagic… even grave hate. I needed to find a way to overcome that. This is what evolved from that:

Mighty Fighty Hulk V2.0

1x Bile Urchin
1x Mogg Fanatic
1x Body Double
2x Carrion Feeder
2x Reveillark
3x Simian Spirit Guide
3x Elvish Spirit Guide
1x Karmic Guide

4x Through the Breach
4x Sneak Attack
4x Summoner's Pact
4x City of Solitude
4x Chalice of the Void

4x Taiga
6x Mountain
4x City of Traitors
4x Ancient Tomb

Sideboard
4x Volcanic Fallout
4x Krosan Grip
4x Shattering Spree
3x Blood Moon

The big changes to the deck was the addition of City of Solitude and Chalice of the Void. The big things that I was noticing with the weaknesses of the deck was that they all had to be done at instant speed: Swords has to hit the Hulk before it dies at the end of my turn, Tormod’s Crypt and extirpate have to be able to hit graveyard targets while I’m going off. Counterspells… if I have to go into that, there might be something wrong. City of Solitude makes them all useless (even my new sworn enemy, Astral Slide). Chalice of the Void is mostly there because dropping it at 1 does nothing against me, and 2 does… even more nothing.


***** Color Choices *****
The first version (seen above) was Rg. During the developmental stages of the deck, I had considered Rw and Ru. In the end, I realized that those splashes went against where I wanted this deck to go: I wanted immunity from the various demons that run amok in legacy: Counterbalance-Top, Chalice of the Void and Trinisphere, and Stifle. Rw and Ru seemed to make the mana curve more susceptable to some, if not all of the afore mentioned cards. Black was a splash that I could not conceivably find a use for.

Most recently, I have been experimenting with a Mono-Red version IRL (I can't afford the Taigas, this problem adressed further below) by replacing the City of Solitude with Blood Moon. The first few turns seem to handle a lot more like Dragon Stompy with that modification, although the deck does still combo through it quite effectively.

***** Card Choices *****
Some of these should be pretty obvious.
Protean Hulk, Summoner's Pact: One of these is needed to begin to combo off, coupled with either:
Sneak Attack, Through the Breach: Your means of sneaking in Hulk and killing him.
I refuse to go through the Reveillark combo for Card Choices. If you have a problem with that... that's too bad.
Elvish Spirit Guide, Simian Spirit Guide, and Seething Song: Your accel. This will help you to get the 5 mana you need to play either Sneak Attack or Through the Breach, as well as decent first turn plays.
Chalice of the Void: Because nothing in your deck is shut off by playing it at either 1 or 2, you can play it to help shut down various pain-in-the-ass cards for this deck: Swords to Plowshares, Relic of Progenitus, Extirpate, and a wide variety of discard.
City of Solitude: Strictly better than Defense Grid because it shuts down activated abilities as well. Counterbalance (although it's less of a problem given the curve), Tormod's Crypt and Relic of Progenitus are all rather difficult to play around. Ok, maybe not counterbalance, but the other two are classic disruption that can't be stopped with Defense Grid.
Taiga: Realizing how this is combo, you rarely have to worry about killing via actual damage. For those building on a budget, replacing Taiga with Grove of the Burnwillows might be a good call. Karplusion Forest works too, although the lifeloss on your part could hurt in certain aggro matchups.


***** Cards that Didn't Make the Cut *****
Fetchlands; Wooded Foothills, Bloodstained Mire: These cards, while they do thin your deck, increase the threat of having something like Stifle get in the way. Also, the lifeloss has a tendency to add up, especially when you're also using Ancient Tomb.
Pact of Negation: While at first it seemed like a good choice, every matchup I had, I ended up siding it out. Against a good player playing Thresh, you play your Through the Breach, they counter it, you try to Pact their counter, and they counter the first spell again. And then you proced to lose to your pact. A little frustrating like that.
Defense Grid: While it does cause disruption against many of the hate cards against the deck, it can't stop activated abilities, which is extrememly relevant. City of Solitude is a far superior choice.
Splash Cards: Mystical Tutor and (to a lesser extent) Enlightened Tutor: While good in theory, they do fall prey to Counterbalance-Top, Chalice of the Void, and let your opponents know that you're threat is going to be in hand.

Pulp_Fiction
03-27-2009, 01:20 AM
This deck seems to fall in the "danger of really fucking awesome cool Sneak Attack things" zone. It just dies to any form of graveyard removal, is affected by Pithing Needle, and has no tutor/setup spells aside from Summoner's Pact. I really like the idea but why would you run this when you could just play ANT or TES??

morgan_coke
03-27-2009, 04:37 AM
The point is you win if you resolve one spell and laugh at every piece of hate that people run against those decks.

The point is also that you can run Dragon Stompy's entire disruption suite and still have a combo finish that is completely unaffected by it.

Belgareth
03-27-2009, 04:53 AM
The point is you win if you resolve one spell and laugh at every piece of hate that people run against those decks.
Laugh at every piece of hate like oooh stifle ?
Stifle sees a lot more play these days and would cause this deck issues that I'm sure it's owner would not laugh at.
Then there is all the graveyard hate around that people pack for threshold decks, so you going to be hit by both combo hate and thresh hate.

Nihil Credo
03-27-2009, 09:08 AM
Laugh at every piece of hate like oooh stifle ?
Stifle sees a lot more play these days and would cause this deck issues that I'm sure it's owner would not laugh at.
Then there is all the graveyard hate around that people pack for threshold decks, so you going to be hit by both combo hate and thresh hate.
What m_c is saying is that a resolved City of Solitude stops in a single package countermagic, Stifle, and the most common types of graveyard hate.

That said, I share P_F's concern. Without any type of draw filtering at all, you can't hope to regularly find and cast 1-2 Cities of Solitude and then the combo - which is what you need to do to beat blue decks. Adding something like Sylvan Library could be a good starting point.

Belgareth
03-27-2009, 09:25 AM
What m_c is saying is that a resolved City of Solitude stops in a single package countermagic, Stifle, and the most common types of graveyard hate.

That said, I share P_F's concern. Without any type of draw filtering at all, you can't hope to regularly find and cast 1-2 Cities of Solitude and then the combo - which is what you need to do to beat blue decks. Adding something like Sylvan Library could be a good starting point.

I know what he was saying, but relying on a 4 of with no card draw and no tutoring is not exactly safe bet like you say.
Nevermind the fact your also relying on drawing 1 of 4 permanent or 3 temporary green mana sources.
Yes there is the pact for ESG option but if you do that, you still have to find the mana to pay the pact's cost the following turn or lose.
It reminds me of Emildn's old suntower deck, but at least that had fetch lands for the green mana and sylvan library to draw it's key threats.

puppektion
03-27-2009, 11:15 PM
This deck seems to fall in the "danger of really fucking awesome cool Sneak Attack things" zone. It just dies to any form of graveyard removal, is affected by Pithing Needle, and has no tutor/setup spells aside from Summoner's Pact. I really like the idea but why would you run this when you could just play ANT or TES??

ANT and TES are easily hated out by things like Counterbalance-Top, Chalice of the Void, and Trinisphere. Considering the curve for this deck seems to effectively start and 3, Counterbalance and Chalice have virtually no effect, Trinisphere will only slow down the Pact. Pithing needle seems to be a pretty big problem; perhaps why Poppeleseed was packing 8 artifact removal spells in the board?


I know what he was saying, but relying on a 4 of with no card draw and no tutoring is not exactly safe bet like you say.
Nevermind the fact your also relying on drawing 1 of 4 permanent or 3 temporary green mana sources.
Yes there is the pact for ESG option but if you do that, you still have to find the mana to pay the pact's cost the following turn or lose.
It reminds me of Emildn's old suntower deck, but at least that had fetch lands for the green mana and sylvan library to draw it's key threats.

You're effectively running 8 of each of the win cards (Sneak Attack and Through the Breach / Protean Hulk and Summoner's Pact), and the latest build he listed has 8 hate cards against Stifle and Swords to Plowshares (Chalice of the Void and City of Solitude)

For the most part, the deck seems pretty solid. I was (lurking) to follow the Sally's top 8, and it seems that poppeleseed did make top 8 with the first build, and lost to a Slide deck... before the addition of city of solitude. It seems that the City/Chalice disruption pack would make the deck a bit more of a force to deal with.

JohnnyCage
03-29-2009, 01:43 PM
That was me at the ptq in MN, i feel your pain, i played hulk every chance i can but its tough in legacy...really tough...but awesome, i inspire!

overseer1234
04-13-2009, 08:44 AM
Nice deck, tested it a bit and really like the idea.

As for the mono red (budget) build:
Would it be possible to make a transformational sideboard? so that you can board out the combo and play regular dragon stompy post board (OK we mis chrome mox, but still...).

It would be so cool to win G1 through the combo, and play dragon stompy G2 so their sideboard cards become are dead.

Just a wild thought...

zulander
04-13-2009, 09:31 AM
Is it me or is there no actualy "Hulk" in the 2.0 list? Am I going blind?

Also, the 2.0 list is only 52 cards.

overseer1234
04-13-2009, 09:33 AM
Is it me or is there no actualy "Hulk" in the 2.0 list? Am I going blind?

Also, the 2.0 list is only 52 cards.

Ad 4 hulk and 4 seething song

Problem solved, hope you enjoy playing the deck.

leander?
04-13-2009, 11:17 AM
As for the mono red (budget) build:
Would it be possible to make a transformational sideboard? so that you can board out the combo and play regular dragon stompy post board.
Something like this?

4x Protean Hulk (side out)

1x Bile Urchin (side out)
1x Mogg Fanatic
1x Body Double (side out)
2x Carrion Feeder (side out)
2x Reveillark (side out)
1x Karmic Guide (side out)

4x Simian Spirit Guide
2x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Seething Song

4x Through the Breach
4x Sneak Attack
4x Summoner's Pact (side out)
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Blood Moon
10x Mountain
4x City of Traitors
4x Ancient Tomb

And play a SB like this:

4x Magus of the Moon
3x Red Akroma (you play TTB and Sneak Attack anyway)
4x Gathan Raiders
4x Rakdos Pit Dragon

Even though i'm missing Slogger in this..

overseer1234
04-13-2009, 01:42 PM
Indeed, something like that :)

There's offcourse the option of playing magus main deck, so maybe 6 moon effect (total) should be enough depending on the meta.

Then you heve 2 open slots on the board (propably filled by sloggers/jitte/mauler's,...)

ScatmanX
04-13-2009, 03:49 PM
But now you have lost City of Solitude again wich, in my opinion, is a bomb in the deck.

Nevertheless, I loved the Dragon Stompy Side.

overseer1234
04-18-2009, 11:48 AM
But now you have lost City of Solitude again wich, in my opinion, is a bomb in the deck.

But you gain a transformational sideboard + moon effects can also be bombs against some decks... (like cutting of the right collors to dusrupt you..)

Anusien
04-18-2009, 11:54 AM
But now you have lost City of Solitude again wich, in my opinion, is a bomb in the deck.

Nevertheless, I loved the Dragon Stompy Side.
What matchup is the combo kill just better than the Dragon Stompy version? What matchups is the Dragon Stompy version better. I have a hunch that you should be transforming into the combo versus a few bad matchup and being Dragon Stompy most of the time.

leander?
04-18-2009, 12:23 PM
In that case you can just play the post-board version of the list I posted and run the combo SB.

overseer1234
04-18-2009, 12:32 PM
In that case you can just play the post-board version of the list I posted and run the combo SB.

That, or you simply steal game 1 since almost nobody expects this combo and then screw them over game 2 when they side in extra hate that just became irrelevant dead weight for their deck...