[ARB] Alara Reborn discussion thread [Archive]

Aggro_zombies

03-28-2009, 04:37 PM

The first cards have been spoiled now:

Dragon Broodmother
2:r::r::r::g:
Creature - Dragon
Flying
At the beginning of each upkeep, put a 1/1 red and green Dragon token with flying and devour 2 into play.
4/4
Mythic

Knight of New Alara
2:g::w:
Creature - Human Knight
Each other multicolored creature you control gains +1/+1 for each of its colors.
2/2
Rare

Spellbreaker Behemoth
1:r::g::g:
Creature - Beast
Spellbreaker Behemoth can't be countered.
Creatures you control with power 5 or greater can't be countered.
5/5
Rare

The last one looks vaguely playable, though probably not in this format.

b4r0n

03-28-2009, 05:16 PM

Aggro_zombies

03-28-2009, 07:10 PM

Wow, Spellbreaker Behemoth is incredible. That should definitely see play in Standard and probably Extended. It might even be playable in Legacy.

Dragon Broodmother is pretty powerful; it's basically a better Verdant Force. Knight of New Alara looks alright, but I just wish it didn't say "other".
KoA is worse than Wilt Leaf Liege in almost every way, but it'll probably be a casual favorite ("ZOMG MAH PROGENITUS IS 15/15 LOL WUT"). The Broodmother is okay, but the 4/4 body makes it worse than Verdant Force, since it'll be easier to kill. On the flip side, its tokens are much better.

Nihil Credo

03-28-2009, 08:14 PM

Power level considerations aside, that's the smartest use of Devour I've seen so far. So many choices...

Zach Tartell

03-28-2009, 08:18 PM

My Mayel EDH deck was just broken in half.

But that's all I really forsee happening. 4cc threats that aren't always bigger than Tarmogoyf usually get beaten by Tarmogoyf decks.

Edit: before people whine:

I meant to say "in Legacy."

georgjorge

03-28-2009, 09:01 PM

Knight of New Alara would have been nice at three mana in 5c Slivers :smile:.

memnarch

03-28-2009, 09:33 PM

Knight of New Alara :smile: Me likely. This guy, figure of destiny, Watchwolf, Rhox War Monk, Kitchen Finks, Wilt-Leaf Liege, Loxodon Hierarch all need to have a talk and sip on some aether vial.

Monk is 6/7 life link for 3 with Knight of New Alara out. Plus Wilt-Leaf Liege out would make it 8/9. Could even block sundering titan and gain 8 each turn.

Goaswerfraiejen

03-28-2009, 10:26 PM

Spellbreaker Behemoth is rather interesting. At 4 for a 5/5, that's already not too shabby, despite colour requirements.

I too am quite happy with the use being made of Devour on that dragon. Can't wait to play it in limited!

TheCramp

03-28-2009, 10:40 PM

Spellbreaker Behemoth is pretty fucking good. Main deck aggro loam? Makes 'Goyfs and 'Vores uncounterable. Smashes threw relic activations without becoming a goat or worse. I think he deserves some testing. Also, first person to top 8 with this and tombstalker gets a cookie.

bowvamp

03-28-2009, 10:50 PM

With Spellbreaker, the fact he can't be countered is great, but he's in the two worst colors (arguably) and he has no immediate impact. Also, wouldn't aether rift be flatout better to play fatties with, and look at what happened to that card!

SpikeyMikey

03-29-2009, 12:49 AM

You're overhyping the behemonth. If you can get down a behemoth (and they don't have removal for it) *then* you can drop a fatty, assuming you've already got your Loam engine active so that vore and goyf are big enough to fall under it's protection... If you've already got your Loam engine active, do you really give a shit about counterspells? Are there enough situations where you actually would care to make it worth cutting useful things from your deck in order to add this?

Pltnmngl

03-29-2009, 09:36 AM

Glittering Wish. Smoke em if you got em?

Peter_Rotten

03-29-2009, 09:49 AM

IMO, Behemoth is total Meh. We already have 5/5s for 4 mana - see other acceptable critters that get no play like Blastoderm and Rumbling Slum. And, hell, I'll fan the flames: we often have 5/6 for 2 mana! The "can't be countered ability" rarely sees play in our format (Scragnoth?) and usually only on Shusher (which seems lackluster lately) and Grip. Behemoth's "can't be countered" seems particularly irrelevant since, at 4cc, he probably won't be countered by CounterBalance anyway.

edit: However, I'd easily play any of those cards in Limited!

Tacosnape

03-29-2009, 12:52 PM

The Dragon in Standard/Limited looks to be really neat. That's a brilliant use of Devour. Cannibalistic Dragon Tokens. And it's Verdant Forcey in doing it every upkeep.

Knight of New Alara = Irrelevant.

Spellbreaker Behemoth is sadly going to be a hair too slow for Legacy. I'd play him in this format if the :1: wasn't there. That said? This guy is really really cool.

So yeah. I get the feeling there'll be about two insane Legacy-changing cards in this set. But these aren't it.

spirit of the wretch

03-29-2009, 01:19 PM

So yeah. I get the feeling there'll be about two insane Legacy-changing cards in this set. But these aren't it.

If by "insane Legacy-changing" you mean "halfway decent, borderline playable" I'm with you on this one.
But the usual new set/Wizard-bashing aside, none of these three cards will see play in legacy.

hi-val

03-29-2009, 05:25 PM

Since the entire set is multicolored, lots of things costed with "this is multicolor so we can shave 1 off the cost" will be worth a look. The dual manabase makes for cheating this kind of stuff out or getting real upgrades on existing cards (like Sculler over Mesmeric Fiend).

I'm pretty excited!

phoenix33

03-29-2009, 05:33 PM

All cool cards, all somewhat irrelevant for Legacy.

Still, this gives me high hopes for the rest of the set. Gold cards probably have a higher playability rate than monocolour cards, as they can be cheaper for their ability, or do something one colour cannot.

HdH_Cthulhu

03-29-2009, 05:53 PM

But in legacy Gold cards dont get played very often. So i think Alara Reborn wouldn't make such an impact.

What do we have now? Deed, Slivers, Teeg and MMage.

Aggro_zombies

03-29-2009, 06:52 PM

But in legacy Gold cards dont get played very often. So i think Alara Reborn wouldn't make such an impact.

What do we have now? Deed, Slivers, Teeg and MMage.
Vindicate, sometimes Terminate.

morgan_coke

03-29-2009, 09:02 PM

Loxodon Hierarch sees some play. And Engineered Explosives sees a lot of play.

kicks_422

03-29-2009, 09:46 PM

What I'm looking out for is a 5 color land. Hopefully they make one that's as playable as Gemstone Mine and City of Brass. Forbidden Orchard and Undiscovered Paradise are a bit meh.

Nihil Credo

03-29-2009, 10:22 PM

They just printed FOUR rainbow lands in Conflux. I doubt a fifth is coming in ARB.

rockout

03-29-2009, 10:49 PM

Dear WOTC,

I would like an instant that says 1BUW destroy all creatures, untap up to 2 lands.

Thanks,
Mike

Team-Hero

03-30-2009, 01:59 AM

Spellbreaker Behemoth is cool, but I also don't think he is going to break the Counterbalance format. Ok, so you now have a 5/5 in play with no Shroud... vs: Tarmogoyf backed up with Swords. What's going to happen is this: You play another fattly, Spellbreaker Behemoth gets Swords, fatty on the stack gets countered.

On top of what I already stated, what other G/R or splashable 5 power creatures see play in Legacy? (I'm really asking the question, this isn't rhetorical)

mercenarybdu

03-30-2009, 02:17 AM

The death of Mono-U Control is on the rise with those few cards.

Who knows if they'll fit into a lot of decks in the coming days prior to their launch.

I'll wait and see what else is in the set before making a go at those cards.

morgan_coke

03-30-2009, 02:39 AM

spirit of the wretch

03-30-2009, 07:37 AM

On top of what I already stated, what other G/R or splashable 5 power creatures see play in Legacy? (I'm really asking the question, this isn't rhetorical)

My teammate top8ed with this (http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=23360) abomination =) Quite good vs CB!

Bigface

03-30-2009, 08:58 AM

http://mtgsalvation.com/alara-reborn-spoiler.html

Here it is, the spoiler page.
My favs until now:

Exsanguination*
2BR
Rare
Sorcery
Choose target player. Name a nonland card. That player reveals his or her hand. Exsanguination deals 3 damage for each card with that name in that player's hand to that player. Remove cards with that name from that player's graveyard, hand and library. That player then shuffles his/her library.

It could be interesting, really. Maybe in some kind of Team Africa deck (someone posted it on New/Sperimental, it was like Eva Green with red). Removing 3-4x of a possible threat, burn and Cranial Extraction for 2RB. Interesting, but perhaps too slow for Legacy. I wouldn't discard it anyway.

Spellbreaker Behemoth
1RGG
Rare
Creature - Beast
Spellbreaker Behemoth can't be countered.
Creature spells you control with power 5 or greater can't be countered.
5/5

I admit it: I like it a lot. I'm already thinking of an Ext deck, some kind of RG Fatty Zoo, with this guy, Rumbling Slum, Spearbreaker Behemoth (this one makes 5+ power guys indestructible) and others. Or a Mana Ramp evolution in T2. And it could see play in Legacy, perhaps.

Nightmare

03-30-2009, 09:31 AM

Hybrid is back.

Jaynel

03-30-2009, 09:35 AM

KillemallCFH

03-30-2009, 09:46 AM

If Marisi Twinclaw is spoiled correctly, that makes me happy. I though they really missed out on a lot of design space in Shadowmoor by not having cards with hybrid + colored, hybrid + other hybrid, etc.

Nihil Credo

03-30-2009, 09:58 AM

If some creature deck can't / won't splash for Tarmogoyf, 4x Aven Mimic looks like a decent anti-plan alongside Jötun Grunt.

Also turn two Bitterblossom, turn three Aven Mimic looks decent for Legacy and completely insane in Standard.

Skeggi

03-30-2009, 10:03 AM

Aven Mimic dodges Counterbalance, bounces with Riptide Laboratory and pitches to Force of Will. Also, Aven Mimic has flying.

Sorry. I just had to do that.

bruno_tiete

03-30-2009, 10:07 AM

Hybrid is indeed back.

Tar Shards
3BR
Instant
Tar Shards deals 4 damage to target creature.
Double Cast (When you play this spell, reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a nonland card with lesser converted mana cost than this spell. You may play that card without paying its mana cost. Then put all revealed cards still in your library on the bottom of your library at random order.)

Whoa. That's a pretty interesting mechanic.

If only this card destroyed target creature or divided the damage it might see some play. The mechanic has potential, though.

Also, seeing hybrids lets us dream of 1-CCs in this new set once again.

TorpidNinja

03-30-2009, 10:13 AM

Hybrid is indeed back.

Tar Shards
3BR
Instant
Tar Shards deals 4 damage to target creature.
Double Cast (When you play this spell, reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a nonland card with lesser converted mana cost than this spell. You may play that card without paying its mana cost. Then put all revealed cards still in your library on the bottom of your library at random order.)

Whoa. That's a pretty interesting mechanic.
Have they ever randomized bottom-of-deck-restack before?

citanul

03-30-2009, 10:18 AM

Have they ever randomized bottom-of-deck-restack before?

It might not matter for this card but it might for cards with CC of 2 or even 1 with Double cast. Nothing in deck that's lower, stack entire deck. Easy to abuse.

Barook

03-30-2009, 10:19 AM

Aven Mimic :1::w::u:
Creature - Bird Wizard
Flying
At the beginning of your upkeep, put a Wing counter on target creature.
Each creature with a Wing counter on it is 3/1 and has flying.
3/1

Looks interesting with stuff that kills Weenies like Cursed Scroll or Jitte.

Question: Do the creatures lose their other abilities like First strike etc.? The way it's worded, they just get their P/T modified permanently and gain flying while keeping the rest of their abilities, right?

HdH_Cthulhu

03-30-2009, 10:55 AM

Right but how does it interact with tarmogoyf or with humility? I dont belive in layers^^

Zir

03-30-2009, 10:57 AM

Aven Mimic
Creature - Bird Wizard
Flying
At the beginning of your upkeep, put a Wing counter on target creature.
Each creature with a Wing counter on it is 3/1 and has flying.
3/1

Looks interesting with stuff that kills Weenies like Cursed Scroll or Jitte.

Question: Do the creatures lose their other abilities like First strike etc.? The way it's worded, they just get their P/T modified permanently and gain flying while keeping the rest of their abilities, right?
The way it's worded, they'd retain all abilities. This is translated from japanese though, so expect a fair bit off errors.

rufus

03-30-2009, 11:02 AM

Have they ever randomized bottom-of-deck-restack before?

Yes, a long time ago with Alladin's Lamp.

phoenix33

03-30-2009, 11:35 AM

Also, seeing hybrids lets us dream of 1-CCs in this new set once again.

No it doesn't, as a 1cc Hybrid would automatically be before Ardent Plea (a regular gold card, and confirmed #1 in the set), as it would not be with another colour.

Straight Hybrids still cannot be in the set.

I personally wonder if a Hybrid card which forces two or more different colours of mana (say a w/u u/b b/r r/g g/w card) would count as a gold card.

Barook

03-30-2009, 05:30 PM

Right but how does it interact with tarmogoyf or with humility? I dont belive in layers^^

Would it turn Tarmogoyf into a *+3/*+1 flyer? :really:

quicksilver

03-30-2009, 05:44 PM

Would it turn Tarmogoyf into a *+3/*+1 flyer? :really:

It would turn the goyf into a 3/1 flier if humility were not out.

If humility were out humility would win because of timestamps and everything would be a 1/1 with no abilities.

quicksilver

03-30-2009, 06:25 PM

No it doesn't, as a 1cc Hybrid would automatically be before Ardent Plea (a regular gold card, and confirmed #1 in the set), as it would not be with another colour.

Straight Hybrids still cannot be in the set.

I personally wonder if a Hybrid card which forces two or more different colours of mana (say a w/u u/b b/r r/g g/w card) would count as a gold card.

Incorrect.

In ravnica Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran is the first multicolored card at number 190. Boros Guildmage is the first hybrid mana card at 242. Which means there can indeed by 1cc cards. hyrid cards are filed under their own section which comes after multicolored.

As for hybrid cards that force you to spend multiple colors I do beleive they would be filed in multicolor. Reaper king falls into this situation and he has a gold border (he's filed under artifact's so he's no proof one way or the other).

Xero

03-30-2009, 11:12 PM

New cards:

Pale Priest-Spider*
Creature - Spider
Reach
Forestcycling 2 (, discard this card: Search your library for a forest card and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.)
Plainscycling 2 (, discard this card: Search your library for a plains card and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.)
#74/145
4/5

So, cycling likely is the rumored mechanic being brought back for the set. I like this cards design, though its probably worse than Eternal Dragon and Krosan Tusker.

3UG
Sage of the Anima*
Creature - Elf Wizard
If you would draw a card, reveal the top three cards of your library instead. Put all creature cards revealed this way into your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.
#103/145 ]
3/4

Too expensive, although it does help in the late-game.

Marisi Twinclaw* 2r/wG
Creature - Cat Warrior
Double strike
2/4

Yes to hybrid.

memnarch

03-31-2009, 12:06 AM

Aven Mimic: this is pretty cool with factories or vaults, would the counters just stay on the land then? I wish it was mono white it would probably work well in death and taxes.

Skeggi

03-31-2009, 04:15 AM

If humility were out humility would win because of timestamps and everything would be a 1/1 with no abilities.
Wrong. Because of dependancies Humility wins over Aven Mimic's ability that says that creatures with a Wing counter are 3/1 flying. Timestamps would imply that creatures with Wing counters would be 3/1 if you play Aven Mimic when Humility is in play, this is ofcourse not the case.

quicksilver

03-31-2009, 09:29 AM

Wrong. Because of dependancies Humility wins over Aven Mimic's ability that says that creatures with a Wing counter are 3/1 flying. Timestamps would imply that creatures with Wing counters would be 3/1 if you play Aven Mimic when Humility is in play, this is ofcourse not the case.

It's not the case because humility removes the Aven Mimic's ability to change them into 3/1s. However if say humility did not affect the Aven Mimic (say for instance you play a humble on a creature with a wing counter), then it would indeed be timestamps and the Aven Mimic could change them into 3/1s if it came in after the humble. Also I believe the wording of this card was spoiled differently when I posted, simply permanently changing them to 3/1s and not using wing counters.

Skeggi

03-31-2009, 09:37 AM

Also I believe the wording of this card was spoiled differently when I posted, simply permanently changing them to 3/1s and not using wing counters.
Sorry man, you replied to a post where there was mention of Wing counters. You're not getting out of this one! YOU'RE WRONG! HAHAHA! :tongue:

quicksilver

03-31-2009, 09:47 AM

Sorry man, you replied to a post where there was mention of Wing counters. You're not getting out of this one! YOU'RE WRONG! HAHAHA! :tongue:

Ok I guess I missremeber the card. Humility does make them 1/1s because it removes the Aven Mimic's ability and I never ment to imply that playing an Aven Mimic's after humility would make them 3/1s. However my timestamp arguement is still correct for power toughness setting effects where Aven Mimic's ability does not also get removed.

Bigface

04-01-2009, 08:31 AM

They're reprinting Terminate. Fuck yes.

sunshine

04-01-2009, 08:38 AM

They're reprinting Terminate. Fuck yes.

The spoiled image looks a little... off?

Bigface

04-01-2009, 08:46 AM

Still, I hope that's true. It would be a good thing for non-Eternal formats.

BTW, talking of bad drawings after DCI Dark Ritual could be relevant no more.

Fons

04-01-2009, 09:00 AM

Most Likely an april fools day joke but here it is http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=155503

"Here's time for ground-breaking news:

I just heard from a reliable source (I'm sorry, but I'm not allowed to reveal his name, for his safety) that a cycle will be reprinted in Alara Reborn.

The rare enemy cycle from Apocalypse will be reprinted, that's:

Goblin Trenches
Vindicate
Pernicious Deed
Prophetic Bolt
Mystic Snake

These cards are CONFIRMED to be in Alara Reborn.

Please keep posts on-topic." -johm000 from mtgsalvation

Elf_Ascetic

04-01-2009, 09:03 AM

A big meh for legacy. I want NEW cards...

sunshine

04-01-2009, 09:58 AM

I would be pretty pumped to get another chance at vindicates, I still haven't gotten around to picking up a set.

Sims

04-01-2009, 11:16 AM

Likely an April Fools joke, but if they were reprinted I'd take em. I'd need to finally get around to getting a set of deeds, though I'd smile at watching my vindicates go up a bit in value thanks to standard.

Cire

04-01-2009, 12:42 PM

Aggro_zombies

04-01-2009, 12:52 PM

Jund Muckcutter {bg}r
Creature - Goblin Beserker
As long you control another multicolored permanent, Jund Muckcutter gains +1/+1 and haste.
2/1

a 3/2 haste for zoo, if your playing figure of destiny and other crap...meh, but could be okay
Worse than Tarmogoyf, Tidehollow Sculler, and Dark Confidant, all of which already see play in Zoo as two-drop creatures. It won't make the cut.

EDIT: @the five rare reprints: you know what would be funny? If this was legit, and the guy just posted it today to freak everyone out because he knew people wouldn't believe it. By posting on April Fool's, he makes people think it's not real (because it's pretty unbelievable any other time), but there's that tiny bit of self-doubt because it's April Fool's day, so you can't be quite sure it's a joke.

tl;dr you can never be too paranoid.

AngryTroll

04-01-2009, 07:05 PM

Happy Gilmore

04-02-2009, 12:08 AM

Not sure if everyone saw the latest 3 cards on the spoiler. I kind of like that blue red dragon, even though he will probably never see play in Legacy.

Spellbound Dragon*

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana3.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manar.gif Creature - Dragon http://mtgsalvation.com/images/spoiler/alara-reborn-rare.gif

Flying.
Whenever Spellbound Dragon attacks, draw a card,
then discard a card. Spellbound Dragon gets +X/+0 until end of turn,
where X is the converted mana cost of the discarded card.

3/5

THEchubbymuffin

04-02-2009, 01:15 AM

I wish that Dragon was legendary because then it would be a fun general for edh.

Skeggi

04-02-2009, 05:10 AM

JeroenC

04-02-2009, 05:26 AM

Die, wizards, die.
No, that's not German.

Shugyosha

04-02-2009, 07:20 AM

Colored artifact!

What's so special about this? They did it in Shards and Conflux already.

I really don't like the :u::b::r: color combination. cards with these colors are almost automatically unplayable in Legacy. Besides that colored equipment helps to make them more balanced in Limited.

Valdez

04-02-2009, 09:26 AM

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/fut/56.jpg
They did it in Future Sight already.

;)

mercenarybdu

04-03-2009, 01:25 AM

Here's a fun find:

Unscythe, Killer of Kings :u::b::b::r:
Legendary Artifact - Equipment
Equipped creature gets +3/+3 and first strike.
Whenever a creature dealt damage by the equipped creature is put into a graveyard, you may remove it from the game. If you do, put a 2/2 black zombie creature token into play.
Equip :2:

Colored artifact!

The card is balanced. Colored Artfacts were introduced in FS, then more were added in Shards. This is only a first for R to show up on an artifact in the cost to play it.

Jak

04-03-2009, 01:47 AM

The card is balanced. Colored Artfacts were introduced in FS, then more were added in Shards. This is only a first for R to show up on an artifact in the cost to play it.

Reaper King.

Skeggi

04-03-2009, 03:14 AM

I just made the mention because I noticed in the Zendikar thread that people hate colored artifacts.

I -hate- colored artifacts. I've hated them since FS and I still hate them. If you want colored artifacts, give them a colored activation cost, ffs. So please, no more of this nonsense.

puppektion

04-03-2009, 03:41 AM

Die, wizards, die.
No, that's not German.

I can't even begin to find words to express how happy reading that made me.

I get the feeling that this set is going to be great for EDH, great for my Type 4 stack, and just shit for the eternal formats. If something good comes up later, I might retract this statement, but as of now... no

Goaswerfraiejen

04-03-2009, 09:00 AM

Aven Mimeomancer is interesting, as far as neutering opposing creatures goes. I doubt we'll be playing it, but it's a fun option.

Also, landcycling's return is quite cool.

Noman Peopled

04-03-2009, 07:35 PM

The Behemoth could be interesting if you face little to no nonbasic hate in your mategame and are up against a lot of blue. In Aggro Loam, say. It still dies to Goyf, though, which is not good for a 4CC critter. At best, it gives your opponent the decision whether or not to race, which turns Behemoth into a worse Shusher.
Obviously, having a 5/5 will be better a lot of times than having a 2/2. But making everything uncounterable will often be better than just your Goyfs and Vores.
So ... I guess if you're hellbent on playing Aggro Loam and your metagame consist of blue-red wielding lots of Bolts? Yeah, I'm not seeing it either.

Mimeomancer seems weak. I'm not paying Dark Banishing mana and waiting a turn to make Goyf (or anything, really) just as bad as what I've got. Likewise, I will not hope to make my Bitterblossom tokens better over several turns if I could play a better standalone card instead.
Maybe with Vial and a recurrable source of damage ... seems rather convoluted if I could have Moat or Humility for one mana more, or gain control of the offending creature instead.
Incidentally, if the card is spoiled correctly, I think it's two abilities, not one. Otherwise it would be confusing if the counters stayed and a new Mancer entered play.

Doublecast could be nuts. I hope R&D has fully realized this and taken appropriate precautions. They don't want 3CC Balance running wild in Extended.

Nothing exciting for Legacy so far, imo. Granted, weve only seen very few cards so far and theres some potential with landcyclers and unearth - and a lot of it for doublecast - but the gold gimmick does not bode well.

Forbiddian

04-04-2009, 01:19 AM

Noman Peopled

04-04-2009, 05:10 AM

Hmm, I feel like Legacy is the best format to take advantage of cheap multicolored cards.

They'd have to be quite powerful to compete with other cards, but Legacy can almost always get U+X out on turn 2 with the duals/fetches.
Whilte technically true, there are other factors besides mana fixing.
- The availability of most effects, including creatures, in a single color; sometimes a different one than they are in now.
- Opposing Wastelands/Stifles, your own Factories/Wastelands and tight mana curves.
- A multicolored card by definition has CMC>1, which seriously reduces the worth of gold utility spells, cantrip or no.
- A card is already unlikely to be better than something available in Legacy as is. Complicating the mana cost will always be a detriment. Multicolor severely reduces the number of decks a card can go into without stretching your mana base - and with Legacy's cardpool, it's likely you could have splashed for something anyway but have already chosen not to.

Now, you can say "but" ... and you'd be right :) Of course it depends on the cards we'll see.
After the recent organization of my Legacy playables, these are the gold cards I have not shuffled into my crap drawer:

Lim-Dûl's Vault (sees next to no play)
Lightning Helix
Hull Breach (Wish board)
Vindicate
Deed
Hibernation Sliver (one deck)
Tidehollow Sculler
Meddling Mage
Gaddock Teeg
Crystalline Sliver (one deck)
Harmonic Sliver (my favorite Sliver actually, as it's most widely used)
Psychatog (nostalgic value)
Trygon Predator
Mystic Enforcer
Flame-Kin Zealot (one deck)
Simic Sky Swallower
Progenitus

That's pretty feeble quantitatively speaking.
Let's exclude Lim-Dûl's Vault and Psychatog as unplayed if not unplayable, and SSS (outdated anyway), Progenitus, and Zealot because you don't really care what color they are (besides green). Oh, and EE is not on there because it's more similar to hybrid.
That leaves us with some twenty cards, assuming I missed eight. That's quite literally less than I have solid even white enchantments, let alone blue instants or green creatures.

Good cards may be in Reborn, sure. I'm hoping the hybrid thing helps some. I also hope we dont see as many 3C cards, as those are essentially born dead for Legacy purposes. But I'm not holding my breath - with the exception of doublecast and possibly unearth.

Forbiddian

04-04-2009, 06:43 AM

I'm not surprised there are fewer multicolored cards played than mono-colored cards... there are simply fewer printed. Multicolored cards are sometimes completely omitted from an entire set (and often there are only 4-5 multicolored cards per set while the rest are monocolored cards).

The real question is, "Relative to a mono-colored cards, what's the likelihood of a multicolored card making the cut into Legacy?" I think it's pretty high, or at least as high as monocolored cards.

Until Future Sight, there were a lot of multicolored creatures that saw play. Recently we've gotten Tidehollow Sculler, which is extremely close to being playable (in any different colors, it would be solid). Rhox War Monk. Obviously nothing to make us forget about Tarmogoyf, but pretty solid playables, the stuff I like to see from new sets.

Particularly U/G, U/W, and U/B are unbelievably easy to get in Legacy but tough in other formats where blue is not strong. Wizards could print even a very strong U/G card that could not be broken in Standard, Block, or possibly even Extended.

UUG: 2/2 Doublecast would probably break Legacy but see little play in Standard where the UU would probably be prohibitive. Although it's still an amazing card in any format, I'm not sure any deck can stretch to UU so early or could even consistently hit 3 of any specific 3 colors.

UGWB: 6/6 Flying Shroud Vigilance. One can dream, I guess....

Noman Peopled

04-04-2009, 07:05 AM

The real question is, "Relative to a mono-colored cards, what's the likelihood of a multicolored card making the cut into Legacy?" I think it's pretty high, or at least as high as monocolored cards.
I still doubt that. A mono-colored card is more likely to fit in a deck without mana base changes that wouldn't be worth it. A mono-colored card can cost 1. Disregarding 1CC mono-color cards, there are other considerations such as being hit by more hosers (especially in the case of red and blue), not being castable via Tombs or rituals, etc.
I do fully agree there have been a few interesting multicolored cards recently, though.

Colors are easy to get in Legacy, but so are Stifle, Wasteland, Blood Moon, and others. Extended gets them just as easily with no Wasteland considerations necessary - although they have to consider life a bit more.

UUG: 2/2 Doublecast would probably break Legacy but see little play in Standard where the UU would probably be prohibitive. Although it's still an amazing card in any format, I'm not sure any deck can stretch to UU so early or could even consistently hit 3 of any specific 3 colors.
I don't know. It's not much harder to cast than Plumeveil and will always net removal in 5C or some other control deck. It might not be broken as such, but still too good.
I agree that doublecast is much more dangerous in Legacy (and Extended) than in Standard, though.

Can't wait to see the rest of the dc cards, one way or another.

Bryant Cook

04-04-2009, 01:38 PM

I wouldn't mind a UB/ UR / BR card to replace IGG. Something fair with doublecast might be fun.

georgjorge

04-04-2009, 03:07 PM

I thought combo decks didn't play "fair" cards.

Noman Peopled

04-04-2009, 05:47 PM

I thought combo decks didn't play "fair" cards.
Trust me, if they didn't, you'd notice ;)

I have a hard time picturing a doublecast spell replacing IGG though. IGG builds storm like crazy and lobotomizes non-control opponents. Doublecast gets you a random ritual or mana artifact and increases storm by +1.
I guess it depends on the effect of the spell in question, but then doublecast is not the interesting part.

The Legacy Weapon

04-04-2009, 09:50 PM

So I'm guessing that Doublecast is actually called Cascade? That is what the Salvation spoiler changed it to. If I'm correct, Can a card like Ancestrial Visions be played off Cascade?

Noman Peopled

04-05-2009, 03:10 AM

So I'm guessing that Doublecast is actually called Cascade? That is what the Salvation spoiler changed it to. If I'm correct, Can a card like Ancestrial Visions be played off Cascade?
Yes.
I was browsing the comprehensive rules just to make sure, but then I realized that if you couldn't, you couldn't play it off suspend either - or Bloom off Desire in Extended. So unless cascade has a specific clause that says otherwise (like only allowing you to play spell with mana costs, as opposed to converted mana costs), a BU cascade spell would indeed be pretty nuts.

You can play the 0CMC suspend spells any way you like, except by paying their mana cost.

Skeggi

04-08-2009, 10:43 AM

Meddling Mage is rumored to make a return in Alara Reborn. Pick up your judge promo's now before they skyrocket. Just to clarify: it hasn't been confirmed yet, but orb is pointing towards it.

Info: clicky (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=3754497&postcount=132).

Aggro_zombies

04-08-2009, 01:52 PM

JeroenC

04-08-2009, 02:23 PM

I would be soooo damn happy. I've had a playset just waiting to get lost since ages- I'm never going to play it anyway.

Apex

04-08-2009, 03:58 PM

Name - 5
Meddling - 2
Mage - 3
wu - 3
card - 75
named - 1 (!!!!!!!!)
nonland - 16
2/2 - 18

Also, if you search in the orb, there is exactly ONE instance of the word "played", as in "The named card can't be played"

That makes Meddling Mage (or at least a super close variant) very likely.

I'm happy with Pikula getting reprinted, I've always wanted a set of it too. Probably going to be a chase rare though, since it has the nostalgia part to it, though I don't know if it's going to be great for standard, I mean, it's not like there are combo decks that need to be kept in check of running around.

Edit: Also, one instance of the word Backlash. Seems like a reprint too. Actually, I've always liked that card, and it's comparable to Threaten (you steal their dude and attack them with it vs you tap it down and deal them direct damage), and RDW has always played Threaten in their boards, could see some play in Blightning Aggro for standard.

HdH_Cthulhu

04-08-2009, 06:32 PM

Meddling Mage would be decent in Bant aggro. But thats the only deck that could use him (and Imo Bant aggro sux).

But what is this orb of insight? They count words and stuff?

Mr.C

04-08-2009, 07:38 PM

Three instances of Wu? That's funny :p

Zach Tartell

04-08-2009, 08:50 PM

Three instances of Wu? That's funny :p
The first is that 1/3 (or so) Exalted guy for WU (he's an artifact). The second is prolly Meddling Mage (as there is overwhelming evidence to that effect).

The third, gentlemen, is the Wu-Tang Clan Guildmage.

Wu-Tang Clan Guildmage (G/R)(R/B)

Creature: Human Thug Poet
2(R/G): J-U-M-P jump and I thump (Target Green creature gains trample until end of turn)
2(R/B): Best Protect Ya Neck! (Target Green creature is Indestructable until end of turn)

2/2

"Diversify yo' bonds, nigga!"

Volt

04-08-2009, 10:31 PM

Yes! I have a playset of the promo Meddling Mages!

rockout

04-08-2009, 11:06 PM

Yes! I have a playset of the promo Meddling Mages!

:-( Dang, I guess I finally have a reason to get mine.

morgan_coke

04-09-2009, 11:22 AM

"Diversify yo' bonds, nigga!"

Ah, Wu-Tang Financial, where have you gone?

Wrath_Of_Houlding

04-09-2009, 11:40 AM

Ah, Wu-Tang Financial, where have you gone?

Couldn't get a bail-out.

Aggro_zombies

04-09-2009, 03:45 PM

Couldn't get a bail-out.
The Fed doesn't care about black people.

Bryant Cook

04-10-2009, 05:56 PM

The Fed doesn't care about black people.

Alright, Kanye.

Apex

04-11-2009, 02:08 AM

EsperKroma

Sphinx of the Steel Wind 5wub
Artifact Creature - Sphinx Mythic Rare
Flying, First Strike, Vigilance, Lifelink, Protection from Red and from Green
6/6
No one has properly answered her favorite riddle: "Why should I spare your life?"
Illus. Kev Walker #110/145

Yay for new Robotic Akroma? I guess it's going into my EDH deck.

Oh wait, it's not even legendary, so I can't use it as a general? That kinda sucks. Type 4? Or Sharuum reanimation in standard?

Barook

04-11-2009, 06:28 AM

The prot color combination is interesting because it helps against the majority of artifact destruction (and Goyf).

Lifelink is interesting, but I doubt that it would be better than Haste. Maybe useable as a Welder target?

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=87773&d=1239416157

Nihil Credo

04-11-2009, 07:38 AM

She's really interesting as a control finisher: she has protection from Krosan Grip, Shattering Spree and Ancient Grudge, and her other abilities are all fantastic on the defensive. Lifelink+vigilance alone is gold, and first strike+flying is just gravy.

Compare her to Eternal Dragon: in the early and mid-game, he cycles while she pitches to Force, so I'd say a moderate advantage to Dragon. When they're in play, the Sphinx (who gets there a turn later, though) is incredibly superior to the comparatively vanilla Dragon. Sphinx is much harder to kill in combat: she beats Goyf, Tombstalker, Mystic Enforcer, Countryside Crusher, even Terravore and KotR due to vigilance+lifelink. Both die to Swords to Plowshares, but Sphinx is immune to most black removal. Sphinx also gets you out of burn range, a la Ajani (and can't be burned itself, either). Both can be recurred from the graveyard, although Dragon's ability is better than Academy+Sphinx.

In short: the next time I do some UWb Landstill testing, she'll be in the list.

Pomaxx

04-11-2009, 10:02 AM

Master Transmuter, here i come.

might see some T2 and Casual play at least. lets wait whether she will have an impact on other formats.

Pltnmngl

04-11-2009, 10:35 AM

What if played got replaced by cast?

Seriously

04-11-2009, 11:23 AM

Infinitium

04-11-2009, 02:02 PM

8cc finisher is 8cc, although evading non-StoP removal and GoyfGoyfGoyfGoyfGoyf is a novel feature. Won't replace Dragon though.

Mayk0l

04-11-2009, 02:07 PM

rockout

04-11-2009, 05:16 PM

8cc finisher is 8cc, although evading non-StoP removal and GoyfGoyfGoyfGoyfGoyf is a novel feature. Won't replace Dragon though.

I agree. Dragon fetches a basic and is a last resort, recurring finisher when needed.

Jujuhawk

04-11-2009, 06:13 PM

Master Transmuter, here i come.

might see some T2 and Casual play at least. lets wait whether she will have an impact on other formats.

I love how people assume these nuts expensive creatures will see play in type 2.

It definately won't. The majority of removal kills it in type 2/block, master transmuter is good on paper, but really is just awful. It's clunky and slow. I think this will see play in casual, but not really in anything else unless something goes along with it or reanimator becomes possible in type 2 (even then, hellkite is probably better).

Arsenal

04-11-2009, 06:33 PM

That EsperKroma looks to be quite good in draft, but not anywhere else really.

Ectoplasm

04-11-2009, 06:38 PM

I love how the protection is irrelevant towards anything but artifacthate, which doesn't touch both akromas/hellkite anyway.
But still, it's a GIANT BEAST so it gets timmypoints from me :)

Apex

04-11-2009, 07:09 PM

Well, being part black, roboAkroma dodges alot of the terror effects. Plus, pro-red means it can't be burnt or targetted by stuff like Terminate/Shatter effects. The pro-green part is pretty cool also, since it dodges all of greens artifact removal, plus Hurricane effects (Raking Canopy?). Plus, all of those combat abilities makes roboAkroma a beast in combat (getting her there is another problem).

So he/her/its weakness lies in the white part. Pretty any removal from white takes care of this guy, be it O-Ring, Path to Exile, Swords to Plowshares, even Disenchant can deal with this guy.

Still, will probably be a pretty popular card with the casual crowd, so I'm gonna pick up a set and maybe ditch it eventually.

TheDarkshineKnight

04-12-2009, 09:09 PM

The first is that 1/3 (or so) Exalted guy for WU (he's an artifact). The second is prolly Meddling Mage (as there is overwhelming evidence to that effect).

The third, gentlemen, is the Wu-Tang Clan Guildmage.

Wu-Tang Clan Guildmage (G/R)(R/B)

Creature: Human Thug Poet
2(R/G): J-U-M-P jump and I thump (Target Green creature gains trample until end of turn)
2(R/B): Best Protect Ya Neck! (Target Green creature is Indestructable until end of turn)

2/2

"Diversify yo' bonds, nigga!"

I'll take 5 sets, IMO.

hi-val

04-13-2009, 12:09 AM

Today's previews at the Mothership are soooooo boring. The Angel is going to get played but all it does is attack and be big if you can cast it and have enough white mana around.

I'm interested to see how they handle things like lifegain, creature pump, counterspells, etc. with multicolor requirements.

memnarch

04-13-2009, 04:11 AM

he he the new novel is called Alara Unbroken.

Jenara looks pretty awesome there. I think your downplaying that ability. All tarmogoyf does is get big too. And this has flying. I think its a solid addition to GWU thresh or the more grave-less aggro control versions running around. In three pumps it out sizes tombstalker so thats actually exiting for me. And FOW pitch.

Mijorre

04-13-2009, 04:54 AM

Outsizing Tombstalker on turn 4, with additional mana investment.
If she doesn't get nuked to heck.
T3: 'I pump my angel'
Response: 'Bolt.' / 'Snuff' / 'Perish' / 'Smother' / 'Plow' / 'Path' / ...
But the pitch to FoW is good, so I'll probably test her.

memnarch

04-13-2009, 08:06 AM

Tombstalker usually comes in later then turn 4. Or at least not any earlier. This can drop turn two off a Noble Hierarch and start swinging for 4 turn 3. Late game it gets big and then the counters stay on. It seems better overall and more flexible then figure of destiny and I think that guy is pretty snazzy too.

hi-val

04-13-2009, 08:26 AM

Oh it's definitely good and people are going to routinely get smacked with a 5/5 flier on turn 3 in Standard because of it. I just think it's not any new design territory.

Noman Peopled

04-13-2009, 01:04 PM

Oh it's definitely good and people are going to routinely get smacked with a 5/5 flier on turn 3 in Standard because of it. I just think it's not any new design territory.
Yeah, this.

I saw the thing and immediately dismissed it because it just seems so bland.
Now I'm thinking, three mana, pitches, provides a good clock while making it easy to keep mana open for countermeasures ... I'm not thrilled, but it could be solid. The colors hurt a bit, though.
And pitching to FoW also means dying to red Blasts.

hi-val

04-13-2009, 01:49 PM

I suppose I was most disappointed that they chose it for preview. How does that card get people talking? You could drop that thing in Mirage and it'd fit in, the card tells me nothing about why Alara Reborn is gonna be The Best Set Yet. They had a great opportunity to show us two awesome cards that were the first real taste of previews and they blew it on these two. Compare with debuting Planeswalkers or Ultimatums or other really neat, distinctive cards. If these cards are the banner cards that should get us excited about the set, I'm not very hopeful.

Noman Peopled

04-13-2009, 06:36 PM

If these cards are the banner cards that should get us excited about the set, I'm not very hopeful.
Well, it's like the Bant Angels' head honcho or something.
Of course, this tells everybody who doesn't bother delving into the storyline exactly zilch (like myself, I got this info from skimming through an article). So I tend to agree. It may have been a decent posterchild for Shards as it shows a tri-color/shard angel, but now?
I guess one could make a decent case that since this is a war Angel it shows like the Shards are battling, but again, it's completely bland to someone who cares more about design.

Still, one arguable blunder in choosing the wrong posterchild doesn't spell doom for the set. I don't much like the ARB cards so far and strongly dislike the theme but even Homelands had a decent card, after all.

crab people > Esper

Nihil Credo

04-13-2009, 07:39 PM

New card spoiled is a Flame Wave effect for XRGB. w00t.

TheBirdMan

04-13-2009, 09:15 PM

meddling mage is up now.

rockout

04-13-2009, 10:15 PM

meddling mage is up now.

Time to do the happy dance.

Nihil Credo

04-13-2009, 10:42 PM

SO tempted to hit up ebay/mcm and invest all that I can on 8€ Mages.

Apex

04-13-2009, 11:16 PM

I think it might be too late. Meddling Mage already went from $8 to $12 per card already. that's a huge jump in price for a time period of just 1 week. The time to buy low has already passed somewhat.

Also, it's not really "confirmed" per say, since it's just some mod that decided the evidence from the orb was "overwhelming". There really hasn't been an official source or something that stated it was there.

Though I personally think they are going to print it. At least I hope so, I need to get my hands on some MM from drafts!

Volt

04-14-2009, 11:44 AM

It's official. Let's see how high Meddling Mage goes.

Nihil Credo

04-14-2009, 12:39 PM

For this to not be in the set at this point, there needs to be a card that uses the name Meddling in its rules text and name, and 3 Mages.

I would say that isn't actually overwhelming evidence - the rest of the wording can fairly easily be found all over different cards. All you need then is a couple of Mages and a 3/1 black common called Meddling Imp with "Meddling Imp can't block".

I mean, if I were to bet money I'd still put it on Pikula being in ARB, but I wouldn't call it a safe bet.

Arsenal

04-14-2009, 12:44 PM

Trollandtoad had MM at 8.99 yesterday, it's now 14.99. Awesome.

Volt

04-14-2009, 01:10 PM

I would say that isn't actually overwhelming evidence - the rest of the wording can fairly easily be found all over different cards. All you need then is a couple of Mages and a 3/1 black common called Meddling Imp with "Meddling Imp can't block".

I mean, if I were to bet money I'd still put it on Pikula being in ARB, but I wouldn't call it a safe bet.

It's spoiled on MtgSalvation as of last night.

Fons

04-14-2009, 01:25 PM

Trollandtoad had MM at 8.99 yesterday, it's now 14.99. Awesome.

Wow this works out great for me I recently picked up a playset!

Ectoplasm

04-14-2009, 01:35 PM

In other news I think lavalanche is great, it's going into my block constructed deck for sure!

Sims

04-14-2009, 02:23 PM

In other news I think lavalanche is great, it's going into my block constructed deck for sure!

That card screams Kresh in EDH.

Aggro_zombies

04-14-2009, 02:37 PM

That card screams Kresh in EDH.
More like Darigaaz or some other general. Kresh wants symmetrical sweepers to blow up more guys.

But I guess you could aim for the One-Hit-KO by nuking the enemy team and sending in Kresh.

nix

04-14-2009, 04:22 PM

i need to get a set of meddling mages quick

Giles

04-14-2009, 04:50 PM

As of right now there has been ZERO confermation that the mage is even in the set.

STORY TIME:
Do you guys remember the Saviors of Kamiagawa's Spoiler Season? I do. I was at my high school, and someone found that Plow Under was in the set. For the exact reasons that people think that Meddling Mage is in the set. That Friday, I got a playset of Plow Unders from a guy that did not know this nugget of information for like $8 (Trying to dump them off since they were going to rotate shortly). Then later that day,I was able to sell them for $40. (Currently that is the only time I have ever done that).
Next week the guy that I was able to sold for $40, told me that he was able to sell them for $50 on Saturday.
About a week went by and people thought it was still in the set.
Shortly after that: it was found out that Plow Under was not going to be in the set. So talks of a $50 playset card turnned into a $8 playset card, again.

Bottom Line: The Orb is only there to create hype.

Icapica

04-14-2009, 04:59 PM

As of right now there has been ZERO confermation that the mage is even in the set.
A reliable source in MtgS confirmed that it really is in the set.

ScatmanX

04-14-2009, 08:09 PM

Source: No seriously, it'`s in the orb.]

That's what they say on MTGS...
But I still got mine. =p

Volt

04-14-2009, 08:35 PM

Yeah, I guess it's not as official as I thought. Y'all should probably wait for something a little more firm before going out and dropping your next paycheck on a set of promo Meddling Mages, unless you feel like gambling.

Apex

04-14-2009, 09:01 PM

Well, I guess there are also other "sources". If you read Chapin's scg article from monday, he kept on saying "oh, so you name Volcanic Fallout?" and crap like that.

Chapin's been known to somehow know about some of these stuff before they happen, like that Top banning that caught alot of people by surprise etc. Particularly since those articles are submitted prior to the publish date.

So I would believe that it's a pretty safe bet that MM is in the set.

But still, it's kinda too late to buy low now. Particularly since MTGSal put it out there as "confirmed" and all.

As for Lavalanche, I'm hoping I crack that sucker at the pre-release. Savage Twister you, and I'm gonna have to dome you for 4, sorry man.

memnarch

04-14-2009, 10:59 PM

Yeah, this.

I saw the thing and immediately dismissed it because it just seems so bland.
Now I'm thinking, three mana, pitches, provides a good clock while making it easy to keep mana open for countermeasures ... I'm not thrilled, but it could be solid. The colors hurt a bit, though.
And pitching to FoW also means dying to red Blasts.

Well that's your opinion. Personally I kinda like the magic where you use strategy and card interactions. The part of magic that I don't like is short lived new mechanics that introduce new rules and more confusion into the game. I think wizards did a fine job with the angel. Its a solid creature with two great ability's and thats enough.

morgan_coke

04-14-2009, 11:04 PM

The part of magic that I don't like is short lived new mechanics that introduce new rules and more confusion into the game.

This.

If we never see another spirit/arcane bit of nonsense, i'll be thrilled.

Apex

04-15-2009, 12:14 AM

Ooo, good stuff this time:

http://forums.channelfireball.com/showthread.php?t=261

spoiled by LSV:

Qasali Pridemage (the one in the link is spelt wrong)
GW
Cat Shaman common
1, sacrifice Pridemage: Destroy target artifact or enchantment.
2/2

This is awesome on so many levels, and might actually see some play in constructed, who knows, maybe even legacy (fish?).

morgan_coke

04-15-2009, 12:31 AM

Aggro_zombies

04-15-2009, 02:17 AM

New card from Mothership:

Time Sieve
UB
Artifact
T: Sacrifice five artifacts: take an extra turn after this one.

This plus a way to get five artifacts a turn is a superdooper win the game combo, but nothing that does that comes to mind immediately.
Turboland is probably easier to set up. If anything, it's a way to give yourself one final turn to win in Affinity...but then again, you're giving your Masters -5/-5 and shrinking Cranial Plating by five points of power, which is ridiculous unless you only need to push through a few damage...and even then, why not just use Fling?

Dear Wizards of the Coast,

Please stop previewing boring and/or overcosted, janky shit.

Love,

- The Players

Xenocide

04-15-2009, 03:37 AM

Noman Peopled

04-15-2009, 04:55 AM

Well that's your opinion. Personally I kinda like the magic where you use strategy and card interactions. The part of magic that I don't like is short lived new mechanics that introduce new rules and more confusion into the game. I think wizards did a fine job with the angel. Its a solid creature with two great ability's and thats enough.
I'm not even sure it's my opinion. Just didn't catch my attention when I saw it, for whatever reason. Just looked like one of those good cards that aren't quite good enough to make it in Legacy. Maybe I'm just sick of the whole tri-color thing. I do agree that flooding the game with mechanics is a bad thing, and I always cringe when they print fox offering or some such idiocy.
Whatever the reason was, I find myself liking the Angel more and more, design-wise. Unprecedented as far as I know but still as simple as one could wish for. Way more elegant than all those unique, wordy, and patently Constructed useless fatties with convoluted abilities we're getting in the mythic slots.

@ Time Sieve:
There's gotta be a way to make this thing work. Artifact creature token engines, maybe. Or AdN for a lot of cogs. Sounds awesome, but probably not worth the effort when you could just as well ritual into AdN.
...
Exploration, Azusa, Loam/Crucible and artifact lands?
Yeah, me neither.

@ MM:
I was pretty miffed when I saw those. Great, now I have to wait until it rotates or pay through my nose, and it'll be Extended legal for, like, forever.
Then I went and checked. I have four :D

@ Quasali Pridemage:
That looks like one of those cards that I'll pick up and almost never need ... but boy, will I be happy to have them when I do.

Sanguine Voyeur

04-15-2009, 06:48 AM

If that card is real, it's going to immediately replace Harmonic Sliver in Survival decks.Why? Harmonic Sliver costs three and sticks around after it's destroyed something.

Skeggi

04-15-2009, 07:12 AM

Isn't that exactly the point? This costs one less, has a bigger body; the effect makes the total cost the same; but it's better since you can effectively recur the effect with Genesis in the gy.

georgjorge

04-15-2009, 08:10 AM

The Qasali is hot, the major drawback being that you usually don't want the enchantment destruction you tutor up to be 2cc in the face of Counterbalance.

Also, yet ANOTHER good reanimation target (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=157354). I think the big guys have been getting a lot better over the last few sets.

HdH_Cthulhu

04-15-2009, 08:54 AM

Harmonic Sliver Vs. Qasali Pridemage

Harmonic Sliver:
-- 3cc is good against CBalance
-- Generates CA (just in form of a 1/1 guy)
-- Has some synergie with Cabal therapy
-- Better in Multiples

Qasali Pridemage
-- Bigger
-- Proactive, you could just play him and attack.
-- Is easyer to recure (Genesis)

Skeggi

04-15-2009, 09:01 AM

I think Qasali Pridemage is better; because of the recursion and the bigger body. Against decks with Counterbalance you'd rather grab a Vexing Shusher over Harmonic Sliver anyway.

TheCramp

04-15-2009, 09:47 AM

Thraximundar is inferior to other reanimation targets for us, but is certainly a option for 5c/Grixis control in standard. It goes in the Cruel Ultimatum/Nico Bolas slot. Higher risk, higher reward. I was listening to the MTGCast covrage of Lavalance, and it goes in the Violent Ultimatum slot, not the banefire slot, in the decks that can/will play those colors. It's not a finisher. As a Jund ramp player in T2, it never occurred to me as having a home in that slot. (aka: don't touch my fucking banefires. Jund Ramp would have even less game than it already does without banefire.)

Time Sieve would be a affinity varient. You would have to build arround it, not slot it in. Pitches to FoW, sort of good with Disciple of the Vault. Savage Slasher? (http://gamestation.pl/graph/magic/CON/salvage%20slasher.full.jpg) Probably not relevant, but some one will build it.

AngryTroll

04-15-2009, 12:30 PM

I think Qasali Pridemage is better; because of the recursion and the bigger body. Against decks with Counterbalance you'd rather grab a Vexing Shusher over Harmonic Sliver anyway.

For the Survival decks, if you need to blow up Counterbalance, Harmonic is way better. If you can stick something that costs two, Counterbalance isn't an issue, just run them over with Goyfs.

Preemptively, sure, the Pridemage is better, but if your two drops are Goyf and Survival, you don't want to mess around with a bear. It's the same reason that Harmonic Sliver is run over Viridian Zealot. Pridemage is a better creature than Harmonic, but not as good a Disenchant against Counterbalance.

In other decks, I could see Pridemage being run, and I'll pick up a full set of them.

Nessaja

04-15-2009, 07:03 PM

Maelstrom Pulse 1GB
Destroy target non-land permanent and all other permanents with the same name.

Looks like the first legacy chase rare.

Apex

04-15-2009, 07:29 PM

TheCramp

04-15-2009, 11:13 PM

zomg!

So now I need 4x MM and 4x of this?

Ahh, how I dream of killing 2 goyfs with this (well, 2 of my opponent's). I think it's going to be a standard chase rare too. So you played your 2nd Bitterblossom on turn 3? Well...

save that no faeries player worth their salt typically makes that play. Its ability to kill Elspeth or Wall of Reverence or Bitterblossom is huge. Or, all your Faerie Rogues, Garruk Beasts, Elspeth/Coup Soldiers, Promenade Elves etc Makes it chase crazy in T2. Looks like a bit of a big deal.

rleader

04-15-2009, 11:58 PM

Looks like a bit of a big deal.

Yeah, this will put some theories to the test: namely Bleiweiss and co. saying the smaller set makes for low-ball chase rares. It's not a bad argument, but his prime example was Ethersworn Canonist, which is hardly as desirable as a Bitterblossom or any of the examples he gave from previous sets for the comparison.

OTOH, this really is just a tweaked oblivion ring when you come down to it (it's nowhere near Deed); probably could have been printed at uncommon. Another Thoughtseize by marketing.

Apex

04-16-2009, 12:13 AM

It's kinda close to Putrefy, but at sorcery, but kills more stuff.

I think it will be a 4 of, real fast, in standard decks, so I'm picking up mine.

A quick check on ebay shows pre-sale prices to be around $50-$60 a set. Think it's gonna drop or go up? $15 is quite alot per card, probably will drop when the set is released. But so far, Alara Reborn looks like a decent set to buy a box or two of.

save that no faeries player worth their salt typically makes that play.

Why not? What's in standard right now that deals with 2nd turn BB, 3rd turn BB, besides crying? A lot of ptq reports of faerie players even includes the "so I played my 2nd Bitterblossom, and my opponent looked on dejectedly and said, OK. And then I won" matches.

Jak

04-16-2009, 01:55 AM

Omg Jund Ramp with new Vindicate and Terminate is awesome.

Noman Peopled

04-16-2009, 03:04 AM

Maelstrom Pulse 1GB
Destroy target non-land permanent and all other permanents with the same name.

Looks like the first legacy chase rare.
Dunno about chase rare ... it does cost 3, is counterable unlike Grip, costs two more than Swords, and you can't break a Goyf stall with it. Not being able to blow up land seems like kind of a big deal, too - or multiples of different permanents, like EE can.
Obviously I can see the opportunities to completely break an opponent's neck, though. I still doubt it'll see play in too many Legacy decks. Good card anyway, one I wouldn't mind to pull as my rare.

georgjorge

04-16-2009, 05:57 AM

Vindicate for green ? VERY nice. I doubt the price will go down from where it is now.

TheLion

04-16-2009, 07:10 AM

Hey, for me this looks like an auto include in decks like Train Wreck / BG Rock...
In slow control decks, the Pulse ability looks even stronger than the ability to destroy also lands.

humppa

04-16-2009, 07:37 AM

Hey, for me this looks like an auto include in decks like Train Wreck / BG Rock...
In slow control decks, the Pulse ability looks even stronger than the ability to destroy also lands.

Until you want to destroy opponents Goyf but not yours one. Ups.

TheRock

04-16-2009, 08:00 AM

Considering that the card will be heavily played in 5CC in Standard and other decks that can use it, I don't see this card dropping much in price simply because outside of it and MM, there isn't anything worth that much money to begin with.

It should reach $20 and stay at around $15-$20 for quite a while.

Sek'Kuar

04-16-2009, 09:14 AM

So, yeah, this and Meddling Mage (pending) kind of interest me. Golgari love it. "So, i need to dredge? I kill both of my imps."

etrigan

04-17-2009, 12:26 AM

MTGSalvation has Meddling Mage art now. It's very very gold.

Also, a bunch of cards that will never seen play in Legacy were spoiled.

And Qasali Pridemage now has Exalted, making it a fair bit more useful when not blowing stuff up.

Volt

04-17-2009, 12:47 AM

MTGSalvation has Meddling Mage art now. It's very very gold.

I like it.

MattH

04-17-2009, 12:48 AM

I like it.

I still prefer the original because of all the blues in the art, but this is a nice one too.

Aggro_zombies

04-17-2009, 01:00 AM

I still prefer the original because of all the blues in the art, but this is a nice one too.
This.

Also, is the Pridemage a viable alternative to Harmonic Sliver now?

b4r0n

04-17-2009, 01:06 AM

This.

Also, is the Pridemage a viable alternative to Harmonic Sliver now?

3cc is relevant for blowing up Counterbalances, but Exalted is good at winning Goyf wars. I suppose it depends on what you expect to face.

This set looks really cool so far. SO many limited bombs.

conboy31

04-17-2009, 01:24 AM

For this card:

Lord of Extinction
3bg
Creature - Elemental Mythic Rare
Lord of Extinction's power and toughness are each equal to the number of cards in all graveyards.
Illus. Izzy #91/145 */*

I actually read it as its power and toughness is equal to the number of cards in all library's. I was like WTF? I then read the posts at mtgsal and everyone was like, this is pretty good. A cousin or 'goyf. I expected them to be like THE SKY IS FALLING. So I went back and re-read the card. Solved everything.

morgan_coke

04-17-2009, 01:26 AM

I want Lord of Extinction to be good, but really, it just feels like a bigger Spiritmonger without Regeneration or colorshifting.

Aggro_zombies

04-17-2009, 01:39 AM

I want Lord of Extinction to be good, but really, it just feels like an inferior Vulturous Zombie without evasion.
Fixed that for you.

Lord is pretty mediocre.

hi-val

04-17-2009, 02:14 AM

3cc is relevant for blowing up Counterbalances, but Exalted is good at winning Goyf wars. I suppose it depends on what you expect to face.

This set looks really cool so far. SO many limited bombs.

You know, I've found that decks running Cbal can get a 3cc card on top pretty easily. With a fetchland in play on the other side, my 3-costers always seem to get countered. I'd look to play this new guy because he can come down a turn earlier than Counterbalance on the play. I feel like if you have Survival running, you have better targets to get than Harmonic Sliver to eat Counterbalance in any case!

Aggro_zombies

04-17-2009, 02:24 AM

morgan_coke

04-17-2009, 02:37 AM

vulturous zombie is to lord of extinction as countryside crusher is to terravore

Volt

04-17-2009, 03:20 AM

Heh. Pikula is pissed.

Skeggi

04-17-2009, 03:32 AM

Best Meddling Mage art ever! I like the old borders, but Pikula's grin is starting to annoy, and I don't like the DCI art... I might have to trade...

b4r0n

04-17-2009, 03:34 AM

You know, I've found that decks running Cbal can get a 3cc card on top pretty easily. With a fetchland in play on the other side, my 3-costers always seem to get countered. I'd look to play this new guy because he can come down a turn earlier than Counterbalance on the play. I feel like if you have Survival running, you have better targets to get than Harmonic Sliver to eat Counterbalance in any case!

While Pridemage can certainly hit the table faster than a Counterbalance, chances are that you're only running him as a singleton to find with Survival. The probability of actually dropping him on turn two is pretty small. Also, if you're running him as a singleton to find with Survival, chances are that you really want him to resolve. The probability of a 2cc card getting countered is still greater than the probability of a 3cc card getting countered. Consider the following:

Standard Threshold list: 0-4 3cc cards (Trygons, O-Rings), 11-16 2cc cards (Goyf, CB, Daze, Wearbear)
Standard Dreadstill list: 2-3 3cc cards (Trinket Mages), 12-17 2cc cards (Goyf, CB, Standstill, Daze, Trickbind) and/or Spell Snares
Nassif Blue: 5 3cc cards (Shackles, Trygons, Grips), 15 2cc cards (Goyf, CB, Daze, Confidant)
Brassman Blue: 7 3cc (Shackles, Trinket Mages, Grips), 8 2cc cards (Goyf, CB) and 3 Spell Snare

Getting a 3cc card on top is still somewhat harder to do. Well, unless you're lucky like Nassif or have a deck like Brassman.

As a card, Pridemage is probably better than Harmonic. However, Harmonic is probably better for fighting Counterbalances. The choice really depends on what you expect to face.

Mayk0l

04-17-2009, 04:10 AM

I'm pretty excited about the Pulse-Pseudo-Vindicate. It's cool. I doubt, however, that it'll be a good Goyf killer seeing as you'd be playing green and thus you'd be running Goyfs of your own.

The Lord of Extinction is probably going to be opted as a DR target in Ichorid. Let me get this off my chest right now: it sucks. It really does. even at 55/55, it sucks. I'd play it if it had Haste because that would make us less dependent on Bridge from Below. But without Haste, we might as well DR a Troll which, though smaller, will get the job done if this guy would.

undone

04-17-2009, 08:00 AM

Lord of Extinction 3BG
Creature - Elemental
Lord of Extinction's power and toughness are each equal to the number of cards in all graveyards.
Illus. Izzy #91/145 */*

Holy raving crap batman its bigger than tarmogoyf! (unless there are no cards in the yard than it dies to relic... how aquard)

But this is a house in standard and extended at least.

TheCramp

04-17-2009, 08:12 AM

Also, is the Pridemage a viable alternative to Harmonic Sliver now?

I wonder if he fits in other decks now? Naya Burn? 'Goyf Wars, Maindeck CB solution, MD CotV @ 1 solution, randomly helpful against icorid, often a Watchwolf... Seems like it could be a main deck beater. Mos def in extended naya zoo.

Bloodbraid Elf (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=88179&d=1239951897) seems good to me. Sort of a more aggressive Ranger of Eos. Has the same appeal that Broodmate Dragon does with how it fucks up the value of pin point removal, and draws out mass removal without committing more than 1 card to the board. If you hit Woolly Thoctar your a champ. I will test in Naya zoo for extended, not sure if it has any application in legacy. I would say no, but the beating I have been applying with Broodmates in standard has piqued my interest. Imagine in Agro Loam... You could hit Crusher, 'Vore, Deed(?!)... or diamond, frown.

Edit: Just realized that it cascades even if they counter it. That's pretty attractive.

Moczoc

04-17-2009, 09:17 AM

I just realized that Cascade ist worded "..that costs less.."!? What's the difference between this and "..that has a lesser converted mana cost than.."

Nihil Credo

04-17-2009, 09:29 AM

I just realized that Cascade ist worded "..that costs less.."!? What's the difference between this and "..that has a lesser converted mana cost than.."
The latter is the rigorous formula, and Cascade is probably phrased as such in the Comprehensive Rules. Reminder text is allowed to use inaccurate wording for the sake of being shorter (eg "Unearth only as a sorcery").

rufus

04-17-2009, 09:34 AM

Funny thing is that Lord of Extinction might be more playable at 6cc in something like Golden Grahams for the interaction with Dragon Fangs/Dragon Breath, though I suppse Sutured Ghoul/Lord of Extition/Dragon Breath is also 3 cards.

Clearly a card with potential use in reanimation combo decks like Ichord and Grahams.

from Cairo

04-17-2009, 10:45 AM

So far this set looks really fun, there doesnt look like a ton of stuff for Legacy, but definitely some well designed cards, Standard and Extended playables.

Occam

04-17-2009, 12:53 PM

Some other revealed cards:

Sen Triplets 2WUB
Legendary Artifact Creature — Human Wizard (MR)
At the beginning of your upkeep, choose target opponent. This turn, that player can’t play spells or activated abilities and plays with his or her hand revealed. You can play cards from that player’s hand this turn.
They are the masters of your mind.
3/3
109/145
Greg Staples

Finest Hour 2GWU
Enchantment

Exalted

Whenever a creature you control attacks alone, if it's the first combat phase of the turn, untap that creature. After this pase, there is an additional combat phase.

Glory of Warfare 2WR

As long as it is your turn, creatures you control get +2/+0

As long as it is not your turn, creatures you control get +0/+2

Retaliator Griffin 1RGW
Flying 2/2

Whenever a source an opponent controls deals damage to you, you may put that many +1/+1 counters on Retaliator Griffin

Filigree Angel 5WWU

Flying

When Filigree Angel comes into play, you gain 3 life for each artifact you control

4/4

Giant Ambush Beetle 3BorG/R

Haste
When Giant Ambush Beetle comes into play, you may have target creature block it this turn if able.

4/3

Mycoid Shepard 1GGW

Whenever Mycoid Shepard or another creature you control with power 5 or greater is put into a graveyard from play, you may gain 5 life.

5/4

Lightning Reaver 3BR
Creature - Zombie Beast

Fear, Haste
Whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player, put a charge counter on it.

At the end of your turn, ~ deals damage equal to the number of charge counters on it to each opponent.

3/3

Sanity Gnawers 1BR
Creature - Rat
Common?
When Sanity Gnawers comes into play, target opponent discards a card at random.
1/1

Sanity Gnawers is likely to be true, but is unconfirmed at the moment.

Uril, the Miststalker 2RGW

Legendary Creature - Beast (M)

~ can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control.
~ gets +2/+2 for each Aura attached to it.

5/5

Bloodbraid Elf 2RG
Creature- Elf Berserker
Haste
Cascade
3/2

Enigma Sphinx 4WUB

Flying

When Enigma Sphinx is put into your graveyard from play, put it into your library third from top.

Cascade

5/4

Igneous Pouncer 4BR

Haste

Swampcycling 2
Mountaincycling 2

5/1

Madrush Cyclops 1BRG

Creature - Cyclops Warrior

Creatures you control have haste.

3/4

Lich Lord of Unx 1UB

UB Tap: Put a 1/1 blue and black Zombie Wizard creature token into play.

UUBB Tap: Target player loses X life and puts the top X cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard, where X is the number of zombies you control.

2/2

Nothing really playable here, although Sen Triplets could be a potential tinker target in Vintage. Glory of War may be vaguely playable as a finisher in a W/R aggro deck. Finest Hour is a really cool, nicely designed card, and while unlikely to make the 1.5 cut, might make an impact on Standard and Extended.

Reborn looks interesting and flavourful thus far. I like it.

Infinitium

04-18-2009, 05:10 AM

Ardent Plea 1UW
Enchantment
Exalted
Cascade

So. Breaks goyfmates, nice synergy with library stacking but has bad synergy with Daze and sometimes StP in the deck most likely to play it. Intriguing and would likely see play if costed at UW. Ah well.

georgjorge

04-18-2009, 06:05 PM

Damn...I hoped it would draw cards or something. Cascade is good, but I don't think the Plea will be playable, it just doesn't do enough on its own.

from Cairo

04-18-2009, 06:18 PM

Damn... it just doesn't do enough on its own.

signed.

KillemallCFH

04-18-2009, 06:37 PM

Jak

04-18-2009, 06:43 PM

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=88165&d=1239941404

Same cost as Harmonic Sliver, and can be reccured with Genesis (without the need for a Darkheart Sliver). Exalted also breaks Goyf stalemates. Seems like an auto-include in Survival. Might be good enough to see play in some other decks, too.

The only downside is costing two...

However it is so strong at breaking Goyf stalemates nd being a nice threat that I would run it. Maybe even as a 2-4 of.

Mordel

04-18-2009, 08:48 PM

It's a pretty awesome hate bear. Some folks might start more seriously exploring WGx beats...then again, unless it comes down on turn one, it's a shitty answer to CB.

A very high quality uncommmon common(!!?) regardless. I bet it will be the uncommon in the set that will be priced like a rare.

Edit: Wow, just realized that it's a common. Damn.

Nihil Credo

04-18-2009, 08:52 PM

So, to recap:

Ardent Plea - Very likely unplayable

Aven Mimeomancer - Playable, possibly good

Defiler of Souls - I stopped a moment here because, to the best of my knowledge, this is the only "Abyss on legs" that doesn't require any hoop-jumping. That's worth keeping in mind for the future, although I can't see it really getting played without some ability like cycling. B/R is also a terrible colour combination for any deck that might want a six-mana beast.

Bloodbraid Elf - Ranger of Eos is playable in Legacy, and this seems at least as good, particularly for aggro decks that don't care too much about cute toolboxes.

Qasali Pridemage - Playable, solid

Maelstrom Pulse - Playable, solid, possibly staple even

Sphinx of the Steel Wind - God, I want so bad to find a place for this. Long shot though.

Uril, the Miststalker - Shroud fatties are always worth a second look. The Rabid Wombat ability is awful, though - Auras are for decks running cheap weenies to improve, not midrange beasts that should hold the fort on their own. Not worth the five mana.

Jenara, Asura of War - Playable, solid, but suffers from stiff competition. Also, WTF@ this being a mythic.

Well, so far we're just a third into Alara Reborn, although we've seen a lot of rares and mythics (ew). The set is definitely a good one for Legacy.

kicks_422

04-18-2009, 09:19 PM

The Qasali Pridemage looks really cool, as it can fit into existing Zoo builds. A 2/2 body with a Naturalize effect attached is really strong - only Counterbalance and Humility would be a problem.

KillemallCFH

04-18-2009, 09:28 PM

The only downside is costing two...

However it is so strong at breaking Goyf stalemates nd being a nice threat that I would run it. Maybe even as a 2-4 of.Oh yeah. For some reason that fact that he gets hit by CB didn't even occur to me. Still, it seems really solid. I have a WBG Vial Zooish deck I've been working on that this guy could easily find a place in. (Now I just have to figure out what to cut.)

Enigma

04-18-2009, 10:04 PM

I wish Ardent Plea + Ancestral Vision wouldn't be that much clunky. It's probably really good to pay 1UW to have:

Exalted
Draw three cards

P-M

rockout

04-18-2009, 10:05 PM

Got to ask yourself is he better than trygon? Trygon pitches to force where The mages gives exalted. Both strong choices, I'm sure he'll see play.

KillemallCFH

04-18-2009, 10:45 PM

Got to ask yourself is he better than trygon? Trygon pitches to force where The mages gives exalted. Both strong choices, I'm sure he'll see play.Well, not every deck running GW is also running blue, and not every deck running UG is also running white, so that isn't really a fair comparison.

That being said, I think flying, dodging CB better, and reusablity is better than winning Goyf wars. Also, if we're discussing the cards' merit in Thresh/NLU, Pridemage is in two splash colors, which is also a point against it.

hi-val

04-18-2009, 10:56 PM

The Cascade cards can get Restore Balance, which is probably their most powerful use. That doesn't say a whole lot, though : ( The best I could think of was like, Ancient Tomb into UW Oddessey egg-land for a turn-2 Balance : \

KillemallCFH

04-18-2009, 11:31 PM

The best I could think of was like, Ancient Tomb into UW Oddessey egg-land for a turn-2 Balance : \You, sir, just broke the format.

Bigface

04-19-2009, 04:14 AM

Crystallization
:ug: :w:
Common
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature can't attack or block
When enchanted creature is the target of a spell or ability, remove it from the game.

Could be playable somehow.

Jak

04-19-2009, 04:28 AM

Aggro_zombies

04-19-2009, 05:26 AM

Could be playable somehow.
Sure it's playable...

...in Limited.

Decent removal there, but I'm not sure how much I'd want this over, say, Yoke of the Damned.

HdH_Cthulhu

04-19-2009, 08:00 AM

Sure it's playable...

...in Limited.

Decent removal there, but I'm not sure how much I'd want this over, say, Yoke of the Damned.

I would pic this over Path to Exile anytime.

Aggro_zombies

04-19-2009, 08:24 AM

I would pic this over Path to Exile anytime.
www.instantrimshot.com?

I'm pretty sure PtE is always better in Limited, fixing or no.

Gheizen64

04-19-2009, 08:55 AM

Those two card are discussed on speculation, being on a french magic site:

Soul Manipulation
1UB
Instant - Common
Choose one or both — Counter target creature spell; and/or return target creature card in your graveyard to your hand.

Putrid Leech
BG
Creature - Leech - Common
Pay 2 life: Putrid Leech gets +2/+2 until end of turn. Play this ability only once each turn.
2/2

Both are probably true (the source is said to be reliable).

Soul manipolation is interesting and pretty strong in standard, at 3 mana maybe is unplayable in legacy, but the card is definitely interesting.
(almost) Dodge counterbalance, pitch, counter a win condition (goyf) and get back yours (goyf) if it wasn't sworded.
Leech is pretty strong, it's basically a 4/4 for 2. Usually much better than flesh reaver (aside from the fact is not ritual friendly). Could see play in Eva Green instead of Shade or Nyxathid as a solid threat that doesn't need graveyard or mana investment.
Will surely see play in extended.

About plea: are you sure it doesn't do enough? I'm fascinated by this card, and i'll probably try play it in extended in a U/W deck with ponder, visions, serra avenger and maybe PtE as the only card with cmc <3. Look tasty.

georgjorge

04-19-2009, 12:06 PM

Lots of good creatures so far...the Leech does look very playable in Eva Green or other such decks.

Belgareth

04-19-2009, 12:20 PM

Passed Prosperity r/w G
Enchantment - Aura (C)
Enchant land
Enchanted land has shroud.
Whenever enchanted land is tapped for mana, you may add one mana of any color to your mana pool.

Hmm Enchantress isn't played much but this would slide right on into it :)

Infinitium

04-19-2009, 12:53 PM

Nah. Enchantress already plays enough basics to make competitive LD more or less irrelevant. I guess it could be used to protect Sanctum or somesuch but why bother?

EDIT:
Collossal Might - RG
Instant
Target Creature gets +4/+2 and Trample until end of turn.

Now this is mildly interesting though.

Bigface

04-19-2009, 01:09 PM

Mayael's Aria
:r: :g: :w:
Rare
Enchantment
At the beginning of your upkeep, put a +1/+1 counter on each creature you control if you control a creature with power 5 or greater. Then you gain 10 life if you control a creature with power 10 or greater. Then you win the game if you control a creature with power 20 or greater.

Possible finisher in a Mayel EDH deck? Possible Mana Ramp return in T2, combo-ing with Mossbridge Troll? Dunno. Otherwise, seems crappy.

Aggro_zombies

04-19-2009, 02:55 PM

Possible finisher in a Mayel EDH deck? Possible Mana Ramp return in T2, combo-ing with Mossbridge Troll? Dunno. Otherwise, seems crappy.
I doubt you'd still be alive if you had a guy that big in EDH multiplayer. Dropping this is equivalent to painting a big, fat target on your face, and if you make it to your next upkeep and win then the board must have been in your favor already.

EDIT: Also, Slave of Bolas isn't a :w::b: angel, but a rather disappointing uncommon, sorcery-speed, creature-theft spell. :cry:

Moczoc

04-19-2009, 04:19 PM

scrumdogg

04-19-2009, 04:27 PM

I read an interesting idea about Mayael's Aria at MTGS:

Play Ajani Goldmane's third ability with a least 9 life, you get an 9/9 Avatar, next Upkeep it gets a +1/+1 counter, you gain 10 life, 20/20 token -> win the game :eek:

And you were worried about opponents who allow you to do all this unmolested why exactly? Cute, not good. Fun, not efficient. Which is fine, but is there any way to use this in Legacy that doesn't crumble like a sand-castle if you don't get all the pieces? Some sort of multi-color swarm/token deck?

rufus

04-19-2009, 05:38 PM

And you were worried about opponents who allow you to do all this unmolested why exactly? Cute, not good. Fun, not efficient. Which is fine, but is there any way to use this in Legacy that doesn't crumble like a sand-castle if you don't get all the pieces? Some sort of multi-color swarm/token deck?

It's very hard to come up with situations where this card would be anything other than win more, or, at best, a third or fourth rate answer to something like ensnaring bridge or moat.

bowvamp

04-19-2009, 06:14 PM

Ok, so I know this is weird, but with the rising popularity of zur, does ardent plea still work if fetched by zur? Because if so, it reads: Zur get's +1/+1 find the next card in your library with less than 3 mana and put it into play. That next card could be a confidant...
Of course, then you'd have to find higher CC counters hopefully with better effects or cards like Misdirection with an alternate CC.

Nihil Credo

04-19-2009, 06:22 PM

It's actually an epic bombo since 1) Ardent Plea doesn't get in play soon enough to have Exalted trigger, and 2) Cascade only triggers when Ardent Plea is played, so fetching it with Zur has no effect.

rufus

04-19-2009, 06:47 PM

Aside from the CMC-less suspend spells, Fluctuator seems like it could be an interesting card to pull out using ardent plea.

rufus

04-19-2009, 07:10 PM

This is wild speculation, but aside from the CMC-less stuff, Ardent Plea could be interesting in some kind of Affinity or Fluctuator deck.

Aggro_zombies

04-19-2009, 07:28 PM

This is wild speculation, but aside from the CMC-less stuff, Ardent Plea could be interesting in some kind of Affinity or Fluctuator deck.
The problem with the former is that Plea basically does nothing for Affinity - you can't feed it to Ravager or use it to pump Master, and attacking with one guy to get the exalted bonus is usually kinda dumb in an aggressive deck. Combine that with the fact that some of your most ridiculous cards cost more than two (Master, Esperzoa, Thoughtcast, maybe Force), and you have ":1::w::u:: Draw a card for real this turn."

In Fluctuator, this will find you your namesake artifact, but that's about it. Most of the cards that cycle in that deck for two mana cost more than two to play, so they'll all end up on the bottom, making it harder to chain things. Not only that, Fluctuator sucks.

Enigma

04-20-2009, 11:49 AM

Is it me or this guys is really good?

"Wisescale Serpent" :1::g::u:
Creature - Snake (U)
Whenever you draw a card, you may put a +1/+1 counter on ~.
2/2

fallenphoenix

04-20-2009, 11:52 AM

Wisescale Serpent* 1:g::u:
Creature - Snake - Uncommon
Whenever you draw a card, you may put a +1/+1 counter on Wisescale Serpent.
2/2

Another potential beater for Threshold? Grows pretty large with a little help from Cantrips and the like.. not to mention it's already 3/3 for 3 when you would attack for the first time. It also pitches to Force and is neat with or against CB...

Brainstorm for +3 Counters? Ponder/Portent/Predict chaining for even more? Count me in!

And it is uncommon, which is relieving, money-wise.

Apex

04-20-2009, 11:58 AM

Zomg, Brainstorm = 5/5 instantly?

Though is 3 for 5/5 (actually, probably at least a 6/6, since you draw before you attack) good enough for Thresh? I mean, that deck is already like skipping Moongoose, and that's a G for 3/3 Shroud :rolleyes:

But 3 mana dodges CB, so that's cool. And you can repeatedly use Top to trigger more counters. Hmmm, potential.

HdH_Cthulhu

04-20-2009, 11:59 AM

Is it me or this guys is really good?

"Wisescale Serpent" :1::g::u:
Creature - Snake (U)
Whenever you draw a card, you may put a +1/+1 counter on ~.
2/2

With Brainstorm as a permanent Giant Growth, hell yeah!

3cc is a bit high (no broken goyf cc) and lack of evasion is also bad.
Evene it doesent have Threshold it feels like a very Threshy Card. -.- again

georgjorge

04-20-2009, 11:59 AM

Aaaargh !

Dear Wizards,

we do NOT need any further cards which make blue cantrips, especially Brainstorm, better.

This one is also nice...probably too fragile and evasion-less, but a little removal could go a long way here.

Vedalken Heretic UG
Creature-Vedalken Shaman

Whenever ~ deals damage to an opponent,
you may draw a card.
1/1

And this one would need some good spells with high additional casting costs to work...any ideas ?

"Wargate" GWUX
Sorcery

Search your library for a permanent card
with converted mana cost X or less and
put it into play. Shuffle your library.

Finally, this is not competitive (Zur is better), but...

Lords of Forgotten Alara 4WU
Creature - Spirit

Exalted
Whenever a creature you control attacks alone,
you may search your library for an Aura card
that can enchant it and put it into play attached
to that creature. If you do, shuffle your library afterwards.
4/5

...with either a Sneak Attack or a Shallow Grave, put Pattern of Rebirth or False Demise on it to continue the fun. I'm sure there are nastier options as well.

from Cairo

04-20-2009, 12:28 PM

Wisescale Serpent* 1:g::u:
Creature - Snake - Uncommon
Whenever you draw a card, you may put a +1/+1 counter on Wisescale Serpent.
2/2

if real, wow...

rufus

04-20-2009, 12:37 PM

Wisescale Serpent* 1:g::u:
Creature - Snake - Uncommon
Whenever you draw a card, you may put a +1/+1 counter on Wisescale Serpent.
2/2
Fluctuator wincon!

Ug or Ugb Psychatog anyone?

C.P.

04-20-2009, 01:49 PM

Is it me or this guys is really good?

"Wisescale Serpent" :1::g::u:
Creature - Snake (U)
Whenever you draw a card, you may put a +1/+1 counter on ~.
2/2

Worse than:
Tarmogoyf, Nimble Mongoose, Sower of Temptation

Around same as:
Trygon Predator(?), Verdelion Clique(?)

Better than: Mystic Enforcer, Quirion Dryrad, Cold-Eyed Selkie.

I personally Love it because it is a snake. Gogo Snake tribal!

Zir

04-20-2009, 02:03 PM

The scale could get really big though, after a single brainstorm it's a 5/5 for 3 mana, and it'll only get bigger from there.

Another new card:
1rb

When this comes into play, it deals dmage to target player equal to the number of nonbasic lands he or she controls.

Unearth 5rb

2/2

Looks pretty decent, maybe BR Sui could make a comeback. It's no Price of Progress, but a body attached is pretty nice (it'll never be dead like PoP can sometimes be).

Mr.C

04-20-2009, 02:34 PM

It's funny that it says target player, so it doesn't screw you over like PoP. Should keep UWG in check in T2. Maybe.

quicksilver

04-20-2009, 02:36 PM

Nihil Credo

04-20-2009, 02:41 PM

Reaver027

04-20-2009, 02:44 PM

Since it has not been posted and i think it worth noting:

Zealous Persecution :w::b:
Instant (U)
Until end of turn, creatures you control get +1/+1 and creatures target opponent controls get -1/-1.

Nice and strong combat trick. Not sure this is strong enough for Legacy but it is still a great card.

The name of the card could change.

Aggro_zombies

04-20-2009, 03:14 PM

That snake made me jizz...in...my pants.

Turning into a 5/5 for :1::g::u::u: with Brainstorm is pretty ridonculous, especially considering it'll be swinging as a permanent 6/6 on your next attack step. However, the first thing that came to mind for me was some sort of :u::g:/x Loam-Intuition control deck, where it would be similar to Countryside Crusher in Aggro Loam: a decent body for the mana that gets huge as a byproduct of your deck doing what your deck wants to do. Cycling lands with Life from the Loam would potentially allow it to to get huge very quickly.

Combined with Tarmogoyf and a singleton Wonder, this could give that sort of deck some considerable offensive firepower.

The :b::r: PoP guy is pretty sexy for Blightning Aggro in Standard. Between that, Terminate, and Thought Hemorrhage, Blightning is making out like a bandit in this set. As for whether it'll see play in Legacy...I don't know, there's not really a deck for it that doesn't suck. I don't think this will suddenly make Red Death any less shitty.

The commons and uncommons from this set are looking really solid so far, though I haven't seen anything other than the 3/4 one-mana cycler Golem that I'd want for my Pauper Esper Cogs deck.

That Vedalken draw guy is nuts in Momir Vig EDH.

TeKo

04-20-2009, 03:25 PM

Want to play that with Sylvan Lib ;)

georgjorge

04-20-2009, 04:51 PM

Godtracker of Jund - 1RG
Creature - Elf Shaman
Whenever a creature with power 5 or greater comes into play under your control, put a +1/+1 counter on Godtracker of Jund.
2/2

So, the exact same effect happens "whenever you draw a card" in U/G, but only "whenever you play a fattie" in R/G? What - the - fuck?

Yea, I thought the exact same thing. It's like the Alpha "cycle" including Ancestral Recall for blue, and Healing Salve for white...fair, isn't it.

However, the first thing that came to mind for me was some sort of :u::g:/x Loam-Intuition control deck, where it would be similar to Countryside Crusher in Aggro Loam: a decent body for the mana that gets huge as a byproduct of your deck doing what your deck wants to do. Cycling lands with Life from the Loam would potentially allow it to to get huge very quickly.

Interesting thought ! It would suffer though from Dredge replacing the draw, and thus not giving it +1/+1 (at least the way it's worded on the cards)...but might still be good.

Aggro_zombies

04-20-2009, 04:58 PM

Interesting thought ! It would suffer though from Dredge replacing the draw, and thus not giving it +1/+1 (at least the way it's worded on the cards)...but might still be good.
If you have 2-3 cycling lands, you're still getting at least one counter per iteration of the cycle-dredge loop. Not exactly efficient, but it's getting counters from other places and LftL does some stupid card advantage-y things anyway.

EDIT: Godtracker of Jund is probably just as good as the snake in Limited, maybe even better. It's in better colors, for one thing, and drafting the "huge guy" deck is generally a sound plan. Serpent may get better in the long run, but :u::g: puts you pretty firmly in Bant, which is okay depending on what you do with it. I'd rather have Jhessian Infiltrator over this in Bant if I had lots of exalted, though.

Arsenal

04-20-2009, 05:15 PM

In Standard, Bant is getting major upgrades, but Jund is just on a whole different playing now; not only do they get the best removal spells, but they get arguably the best fatties on top of it. Jund was already quite good, but it's going to be sick now that they have access to retarded removal (Terminate, Maelstrom Pulse), and rediculous fatties too.

technogeek5000

04-20-2009, 05:25 PM

Im looking at a playset of Meddlign Mages right now... i couldn't be happier.

Also If the snake is spoiled correctly I'm going to be playing UG in the future. already thinking up a list.

morgan_coke

04-21-2009, 09:00 PM

Newly up at MTGS:

Something Behemoth
1UG
When ~ comes into play, return a creature to the top of your library
5/6

Not graveyard dependent, pitches to force, and often bigger than 'Goyf. Does require other dudes, but things like factory or dryad arbor could also fulfill that function. Hits T2 with a bird or mana elf.

Downsides are it always costs two cards (barring using a 187 critter - witness, WoB, etc.) and opens you up to 2 for 1s the same way champion does.

Arsenal

04-21-2009, 09:09 PM

Not bad for Bant. Turn 2 Behemoth off of a Hierach sounds sexy.

heroicraptor

04-21-2009, 09:17 PM

Jesus fucking christ Wizards, why not just ban everything that's not played in fucking CB Trash?

dahcmai

04-21-2009, 09:19 PM

I have to admit, that's fairly scary seeing something that large come down quick. Goyf's are one thing, but this guy is along the same lines with the benefit of dodging the CB. Not too shabby really. I think I'll have to give him a shot in a Thresh style with a tad more aggro than normal. Mongoose will be a nice bounce target since no one's going to bolt him out from under you.

Pinder

04-21-2009, 09:23 PM

Jesus fucking christ Wizards, why not just ban everything that's not played in fucking CB Trash?

One of these days, they're going to print "Really Damp Forest" or some shit, and then UG's dominance of the format will be complete.

TorpidNinja

04-21-2009, 09:49 PM

Look up Megatherium. You'll laugh your ass off in the face of this spoiled Behemoth.

Zach Tartell

04-21-2009, 10:03 PM

I kinda like Double Negative, but I'm not sure that it's good enough even for EDH.

heroicraptor

04-21-2009, 10:31 PM

Sewn-Eye Drake :2::ur::b:
Creature - Zombie Drake
Flying, Haste
3/1

Apparently Wizards enjoys shitting on the color pie.

Pinder

04-21-2009, 10:41 PM

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=88310&stc=1&d=1240200767

:O. It's Armadillo Warhammer.

Aggro_zombies

04-21-2009, 10:46 PM

Why is this set so good for Limited? ;-;

Like, everything spoiled so far is playable in Limited. It's ridiculous. How am I supposed to know what to draft fourteenth?!

Paradigm Shift

04-21-2009, 10:49 PM

Sewn-Eye Drake :2::ur::b:
Creature - Zombie Drake
Flying, Haste
3/1

Apparently Wizards enjoys shitting on the color pie.

U = Flying + Drake Status (surprised it isn't a dragon)
R = Haste
B = High Power/Low Toughness + Zombie Status (see Dross Croc, etc.)*

*This could also be attributed to Red. I guess Wizards needs to force the "It's from Grixis, but it spilled over into Jund/Esper" theme hard.

EDIT: drafting with really bad drafters is going to be awesome with Reborn, because you can just pick the most under drafted shard at your table and get passed bombs like 12th in Reborn.

Aggro_zombies

04-21-2009, 10:52 PM

Remember that black is also secondary in haste now, as per the color pie retooling that's been going on since Lorwyn. In the :2::u::b: version, blue gives flying and black gives haste.

Stun Sniper badly, badly needs wither - that mechanic is the shit on pingers. Damn you for spoiling with an awesome mechanic, Shadowmoor block!

rufus

04-21-2009, 11:12 PM

Sewn-Eye Drake :2::ur::b:
Creature - Zombie Drake
Flying, Haste
3/1

Apparently Wizards enjoys shitting on the color pie.

Honestly, they mostly seem to be shitting on their own hands.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=21165
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=23192
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=122406

heroicraptor

04-21-2009, 11:35 PM

Honestly, they mostly seem to be shitting on their own hands.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=21165
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=23192
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=122406

Crazed Skirge: Urza's Saga is not part of the modern color pie.
Blazing Spectre: Red provides haste
Mirri: Planar Chaos. 'Nuff said.

Remember that black is also secondary in haste now, as per the color pie retooling that's been going on since Lorwyn.
I thought Green was secondary and Black was tertiary. :S