dahcmai
03-28-2009, 06:28 PM
Ok, this one is not making sense to me and I'm finding several contradictory things about it.
First the two cards.
Vedalken Shackles Oracle text
You may choose not to untap Vedalken Shackles during your untap step.
http://resources.wizards.com/magic/images/symbols/Symbol_2_mana.gif, http://resources.wizards.com/magic/images/symbols/tap.gif: Gain control of target creature with power less than or equal to the number of Islands you control as long as Vedalken Shackles remains tapped.
Eight-and-a-half Tails
http://resources.wizards.com/magic/images/symbols/Symbol_1_mana.gifhttp://resources.wizards.com/magic/images/symbols/white_mana.gif: Target permanent you control gains protection from white until end of turn.
http://resources.wizards.com/magic/images/symbols/Symbol_1_mana.gif: Target spell or permanent becomes white until end of turn.
Ok, if someone taps the Shackles to take control of Eight and a Half Tails and the opponent responds by making the Shackles white and giving EaahT Pro-White does it go under the shackles or not?
Seems to me it should fall under rule 413.2a which says.
413.2a If the spell or ability specifies targets, it checks whether the targets are still legal. A target that’s moved out of the zone it was in when it was targeted is illegal. Other changes to the game state may cause a target to no longer be legal; for example, its characteristics may have changed or an effect may have changed the text of the spell. If the source of an ability has left the zone it was in, its last known information is used during this process. The spell or ability is countered if all its targets, for every instance of the word “target,” are now illegal. If the spell or ability is not countered, it will resolve normally, affecting only the targets that are still legal. If a target is illegal, the spell or ability can’t perform any actions on it or make the target perform any actions.
Removed.
I can see that, though it's weird just because despite you making the Shakles white, it doesn't change the ability itself on the stack and the shackles doesn't need to check again for the protection. It seems like it should check again to make sure it's a legal target before resolution (in which case it shouldn't be), but I guess it does and it's effect is still considered a colorless source despite the color change of the Shackles itself. Weird. Kind of makes Eight and a Half tails kind of suck all of a sudden.
Another question along the same lines that came up because of this was Shriekmaw being made white. Guess it works along the same lines.
Also along the same lines was Shreikmaw against a creature that gains shroud. This I'm pretty sure will be countered since it does check this to make sure it's still a legal target and if given shroud in response to the targeting will make it an illegal target countering the ability.
I'm pretty sure I'm correct on all counts, but I wanted a double check. Basically, Eight and a Half tails is pretty useless now. Sad.
First the two cards.
Vedalken Shackles Oracle text
You may choose not to untap Vedalken Shackles during your untap step.
http://resources.wizards.com/magic/images/symbols/Symbol_2_mana.gif, http://resources.wizards.com/magic/images/symbols/tap.gif: Gain control of target creature with power less than or equal to the number of Islands you control as long as Vedalken Shackles remains tapped.
Eight-and-a-half Tails
http://resources.wizards.com/magic/images/symbols/Symbol_1_mana.gifhttp://resources.wizards.com/magic/images/symbols/white_mana.gif: Target permanent you control gains protection from white until end of turn.
http://resources.wizards.com/magic/images/symbols/Symbol_1_mana.gif: Target spell or permanent becomes white until end of turn.
Ok, if someone taps the Shackles to take control of Eight and a Half Tails and the opponent responds by making the Shackles white and giving EaahT Pro-White does it go under the shackles or not?
Seems to me it should fall under rule 413.2a which says.
413.2a If the spell or ability specifies targets, it checks whether the targets are still legal. A target that’s moved out of the zone it was in when it was targeted is illegal. Other changes to the game state may cause a target to no longer be legal; for example, its characteristics may have changed or an effect may have changed the text of the spell. If the source of an ability has left the zone it was in, its last known information is used during this process. The spell or ability is countered if all its targets, for every instance of the word “target,” are now illegal. If the spell or ability is not countered, it will resolve normally, affecting only the targets that are still legal. If a target is illegal, the spell or ability can’t perform any actions on it or make the target perform any actions.
Removed.
I can see that, though it's weird just because despite you making the Shakles white, it doesn't change the ability itself on the stack and the shackles doesn't need to check again for the protection. It seems like it should check again to make sure it's a legal target before resolution (in which case it shouldn't be), but I guess it does and it's effect is still considered a colorless source despite the color change of the Shackles itself. Weird. Kind of makes Eight and a Half tails kind of suck all of a sudden.
Another question along the same lines that came up because of this was Shriekmaw being made white. Guess it works along the same lines.
Also along the same lines was Shreikmaw against a creature that gains shroud. This I'm pretty sure will be countered since it does check this to make sure it's still a legal target and if given shroud in response to the targeting will make it an illegal target countering the ability.
I'm pretty sure I'm correct on all counts, but I wanted a double check. Basically, Eight and a Half tails is pretty useless now. Sad.