[Deck] UGW Fish/Stuff

[jbmulder]

This is an untested idea that repeatedly ends up on paper when I'm wasting time.

4 Flooded Strand
3 Tundra
3 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Forest
4 Wasteland

4 Meddling Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Trygon Predator
4 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Exalted Angel
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant

4 Aether Vial
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Standstill
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm

SB:
4 Hydroblast
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Krosan Grip
4 Runed Halo


Some things that come to mind:

1) Does a list like this need to run Top/Counterbalance?

2) Do I need to get Stifle in there?

3) What about Dreadnought/Trickbind?

4) And Mishra's Factory?

5) Why is this becoming a Dreadstill variant?

6) Do I need Jitte for a deck like this to have any chance of succeeding?

Like I mentioned, it's a very crude list that just keeps popping up in my head.

What do you think?

[thefreakaccident]

This is an untested idea that keeps ending up on paper when I am wasting time.

4 Flooded Strand
3 Tundra
3 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Forest
4 Wasteland

4 Meddling Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Trygon Predator
4 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Exalted Angel
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant

4 Aether Vial
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Standstill
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm

SB:
4 Hydroblast
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Krosan Grip
4 Runed Halo


Some things that come to mind:

1) Does a list like this need to run Top/Counterbalance?

2) Do I need to get Stifle in there?

3) What about Dreadnought/Trickbind?

4) And Mishra's Factory?

5) Why is this becoming a Dreadstill variant?

6) Do I need Jitte for a deck like this to have any chance of succeeding?

Like I mentioned, it's a very crude list that just keeps popping up in my head.

What do you think?

Waste lock is less and less likely these days... you can just add the duals instead o basics...

You dont need jitte... o nought...

Stifle should also be in the list...

Nothing can kill an angel these days... I would get two in the list as well instead o elseph.

[jbmulder]

Waste lock is less and less likely these days... you can just add the duals instead o basics...

You dont need jitte... o nought...

Stifle should also be in the list...

Nothing can kill an angel these days... I would get two in the list as well instead o elseph.

All right so then I'm looking at:

4 Flooded Strand
3 Tundra
3 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Forest
4 Wasteland

3 Meddling Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Exalted Angel

4 Aether Vial
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Standstill
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle

SB:
4 Hydroblast
4 Tormod's Crypt
1 Krosan Grip
2 Trygon Predator
4 Runed Halo


I had to mutilate the creature base to get 4 Stifle in there. I'm sure there's a better way to configure this.

I am still attracted to the idea of sitting behind Elspeth under a Standstill so her exclusion from this list is not final.

My meta has a lot of Wasteland-ish stuff going on so I'm reluctant to mess with the basics but I'm not married to them either.

Obviously this is still a lot in the brainstorming stage but maybe I could put in Mutavault and Spellstutter Sprite...

I've also thought about Mother of Runes, wondering if she has a place in here...

I feel like it's missing something though...

Any ideas/thoughts?

[keys]

Serra Avenger works better with Vial than Exalted... no?

[THEchubbymuffin]

MD meddling mage always seems to be a strange pick unless you know the meta or the people you play really well.
An option to replace it could be a few Moms. They protect your creatures and make them unblockable.
Or another possibility is spellstutter sprite? the faerie would only counter cc of 1 but thats not bad at all.

Also, if you do not resolve an aether, standstills seem much less effective w/o manlands. Could manlands replace the wastelands?

Jotun grunt could be somewhere. The dissinergy with goyf is negated if your opponent is playing goyfs.

Maybe a 2 of Jitte. Equipment is always good in a fish deck I think.

[TeKo]

-Delta +Heath

[jbmulder]

Serra Avenger works better with Vial than Exalted... no?She was in the initial draw-up of this deck, but I fear she may be a little underwhelming. Exalted Angel serves as a win-con a little better than Avenger. That being said I am not disregarding Avenger for this deck.


MD meddling mage always seems to be a strange pick unless you know the meta or the people you play really well.
An option to replace it could be a few Moms. They protect your creatures and make them unblockable.
Or another possibility is spellstutter sprite? the faerie would only counter cc of 1 but thats not bad at all.

Also, if you do not resolve an aether, standstills seem much less effective w/o manlands. Could manlands replace the wastelands?

Jotun grunt could be somewhere. The dissinergy with goyf is negated if your opponent is playing goyfs.

Maybe a 2 of Jitte. Equipment is always good in a fish deck I think.I've always found Meddling Mage to be awesome but that's namely because most of the people in my area netdeck. If you can tell what deck your opponent is playing early then obviously it's a hot card. It's a nice thing to have game 1 in this situation. Though I think you are right, this would be the spot for Mother of Runes if there is going to be any. She could serve a larger role than Mage depending on how much removal is running around my meta. I should actually draw up a list and see how much I could "turn off" with Mother then compare to Mage.

Sprite and Mutavault would be awesome. If I take out the Wastelands should I still keep the Stifles? Seems this would be a large deck change, shifting the game plan quite a bit.


-Delta +HeathDefinitely.

4 Flooded Strand
3 Tundra
3 Windswept Heath
3 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Forest
4 Wasteland

3 Meddling Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Exalted Angel

4 Aether Vial
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Standstill
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle

SB:
4 Hydroblast
4 Tormod's Crypt
1 Krosan Grip
2 Trygon Predator
4 Runed Halo

[jbmulder]

These colors/cards just won't leave me alone.

I've been wondering what would happen if one took the Tempo Thresh disruption package and dropped Standstill.


Lands
4 Tundra
3 Tropical Island
4 Flooded Strand
3 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
2 Plains
1 Island
1 Forest

Creatures
2 Serra Avenger
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Meddling Mage
2 Elspeth

Spells
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
4 Daze
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial


Aether Vial is more worthwhile with more creatures.

Serra Avenger is a slightly underwhelming but cheaply costed evading beater that is cheated into play with Vial.

Ethersworn Canonist needs to see more play in this format. She slows the game down enough so that this kind of deck can keep up. As she sees little play, people aren't used to seeing her and they aren't ready to maximize their turns under her drawback. Mistakes are made and that benefits you. Vial helps you cheat your side of the drawback.

Meddling Mage is worth running maindeck for reasons I put in an above post. Though I can see a lot of people not liking this choice.

I like Elspeth not just because she puts tokens into play but she makes all the other creatures large flying threats.

Some problems with this list:
No real card draw. Brainstorm is nice but it's not enough for drawing cards. I'm not sure how much that will hurt.

The creature list is underwhelming. I'd like to fit Pridemage and/or Spellstutter Sprite in here but I just can't find the room. Vial is better with more creatures and there aren't a lot here but it wouldn't make sense to take out Vial to add creatures...or would it?

I will be testing this deck in a tournament setting soon enough, I just get tired of scrubbing out with my scrubby ideas. :cry:

[johanessen]

What is the reason to play this deck over counter-top / baseruption ?

[jbmulder]

What is the reason to play this deck over counter-top / baseruption ?

I don't have a good answer and that is very likely because there isn't one.

That being said, the main difference between this list and the list you mentioned (besides the absence of counter-top) is the presence of Aether Vial. For this list, Vial's purpose is to cheat your creatures into play while avoiding counters (esp the counter-top soft lock), not really as a speed mechanic or a cute trick with Avenger (though it is a very cute trick). It allows you to be aggressive with your mana denial/counters while still having the ability to drop creatures. I believe it offers a very different playing style.

[miko]

That list is not really new. i have seen it many times around. it even t8ed during vintage champs 2007 or 2008, playing black over green for confident because tarmogoyf did not really exist those days.
the deck has surely potential, but i would could those ethersworns and ad black for confidant - 4c for the win. you have vial and should not have problems with your manabase. you can also ad jitte wich makes the avengers strong.