UG Survival Madness

[Kanti]

The other UG Madness thread is pretty dead and does not discuss this brand of Madness at length. This thread will be for the discussion, and hopefully improvement, of a fun deck that I recently discovered.

4 Wasteland
2 Island
2 Forest
4 Tropical Island
2 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand

4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Mongrel
2 Arrogant Wurm
1 Wonder
1 Trygon Predator
1 Phyrexian Dreadnought
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob

4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder

I haven't really set down a concrete sb for now, I am still in the process of playing out the maindeck, but this is the one I use. Other sb options can be viewed at Deckcheck.

1 Trygon Predator
1 Waterfront Bouncer
3 Threads of Disloyalty
3 Krosan Grip
3 Pithing Needle
4 Tormod's Crypt

[Phoenix Ignition]

I've been trying to make a decent build of this for a while and have come to the conclusion that Arrogant Wurm is just not good enough in this format. Paying 3 for a 4/4 just doesn't work out, and with all the stifles you shouldn't be afraid of deeds or EE blowing up your goyfs. I hate to say it, but goyf is going to be pretty much all you are going to need.

Wild Mongrel is also way too small to power without life from the loam, so I wouldn't use him. Basking rootwallas are good though, as they are free.
You need to use some mana accel, so I would throw in 4x Noble Hierarch. Accel is never bad in survival, and you could definitely use it since you use dazes.

[Brushwagg]

4 Wasteland
2 Island
2 Forest
4 Tropical Island
2 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand

I'd look at the mana base first. How oftern do you you find yourself wanting Green mana? Also 8 Fetches is to much, also why the 2 ofs? Also Wasteland seems kinda meh. You want a good amount of green mana to fuel Survival and not cut down on the mana you have. Also how set are you on 2 colors? Why not go 3 and add in Red?

4x Foothills
2x Heath
1x Delta
4x Trop
1x Island
6x Forest
3x Taiga

4x Survival
4x Brainstorm
2x Threads of Disloyality
2x Intuition/Harmonize

1x Squee
1x Anger
1x Genesis
1x Wonder
4x Bop/Heirarch
4x Goyf
4x Wild Mongrel
4x Basking Rootwalla
2x Trygon
1x Magus of the Moon
1x Seasinger
1x Stomphowler
2x Plaxcaster Frogling

Kinda random off the top of my head. I've never like Dreadnought/Stifle.

If you are going to stay 2 color though:

4x Heath
3x Delta
4x Tropical
2x Breeding Pool
2x Island
6x Forest.

[Kanti]

Wasteland flat out wins games, it adds disruption and takes away key mana sources. The 2-ofs arent random, Ive gotten used to Pithing Needle is all so running 4 Heath is always worse than 2 Heath 2 Foodhills.

I suggest you test Arrogan Wurm before knocking it, a 4/4 with Trample isnt usually all that good for 3, but when it has flying if you need it, can be played for 4 to activate Survival, can take out 3/4 Goyfs, and make combat tricks with Mongrel its much better.

The deck works off a lot of synergies, but there is still much room for impovement. Stifle has been pretty amazing in testing, Nought not so much. Maybe I should cut Nought and add another Trygon, or a Genesis though Genesis seems way too slow.

Seasinger? Plaxwhateverthehell? Cmon guys, were trying to improve the deck, not weaken it. Its a Madness deck which abuses Madness creatures with Survival as one of its outlets, while also acting as a toolbox.

Edit: I really dont want to splash a color, I feel that it will degrade the decks goal, that of bieng a UG Tempo deck at core. Only having 2 colors also makes you Wasteland, and Magus, resistant.

[Phoenix Ignition]

I suggest you test Arrogan Wurm before knocking it, a 4/4 with Trample isnt usually all that good for 3, but when it has flying if you need it, can be played for 4 to activate Survival, can take out 3/4 Goyfs, and make combat tricks with Mongrel its much better.

I don't think you read my post... I have tried this deck. I've tried it with 4 Arrogant wurms and 4 of the red ones, as well as most numbers between 8 and 0. Every creature you have can be flying, so that isn't a good reason. I have NEVER seen a goyf be 3/4 when you play with survival. Land + instant will always be in there because of the opposing player playing them. Same goes with sorcery, and you are throwing in creatures. That's 4/5 at the least, maybe 5/6 from your survival.

Also, like I said, mongrel is too small without any engine for him.

[Kanti]

Almost no deck that ever used Mongrel used an engine for him, that guy does not need an engine. He is an outlet, and can take out other crap if you choose to pump, or just end the game. I dont know how you dont see that Mongrel is needed in a Madness deck.

And give me a break, Goyf isnt always going to be a 4/5, let alone a 5/6. Instant, land, sorcery are the usual, and unless they counter a creature its going to be a 3/4. Your can play out Survival so you just chain Roots, or get a Squee at your upkeep so you keep Goyf a 3/4.

[Brushwagg]

Wasteland flat out wins games, it adds disruption and takes away key mana sources. The 2-ofs arent random, Ive gotten used to Pithing Needle is all so running 4 Heath is always worse than 2 Heath 2 Foodhills.

@Wasteland: No it doesn't just win the game. People know how to play around it. Having a land that doesn't allow you to activate Survival is bad is a already mana hungry deck.

@The 2 of Fetch Lands: That is a really poor argument for that. Needle is hardly ever md and if it is it will not be naming your fetch lands. That is if your opponent has never read Survival or Wild Mongrel or Wasteland.



I suggest you test Arrogan Wurm before knocking it, a 4/4 with Trample isnt usually all that good for 3, but when it has flying if you need it, can be played for 4 to activate Survival, can take out 3/4 Goyfs, and make combat tricks with Mongrel its much better.

@Arrogant Wurm: I've played him alot. Madness still is one of my favor decks ever. Just that now it sucks. It has been out classed, deal with it.

@Goyfs: Goyf is a 3/4 about turn 2. NQG is going to end up countering something to make it at least a 4/5 or bigger. Either your meta has alot of the same decks or is really weak.


Seasinger? Plaxwhateverthehell? Cmon guys, were trying to improve the deck, not weaken it. Its a Madness deck which abuses Madness creatures with Survival as one of its outlets, while also acting as a toolbox.


@Seasinger: Just a suggetion there. Since alot of blue is played you can steal a Goyf etc..

@Plaxcaster:Have you read this guy? giving your Goyf or Mongrel a +1/+1 counter is pretty good. Also the fact that it can make them un-targetable is pretty good for U/G.

@U/G: The problem being that you have ZERO removal. Not even Waterfront Bouncer. Good Luck with that.