[ICD] Land Tax

[(nameless one)]

Why is Land Tax really banned? Is there a history of brokeness behind it that I have no idea of?

Wouldn't Land Tax promote basic lands? (I see this really helpful to the format)

Discuss...

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Here is already a thread about Land Tax (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6079&highlight=tax)

The conlusion: Its not wroth to play that many basic lands, to support weak cards like Scroll Rack or Seismic Assault. Loam engine seems just stronger/harder to awnser.

[Arctic_Slicer]

Land Tax is probably the only card left on the Legacy banned list where there is little to no debate about it needing to come off. The card has become somewhat of a joke around here because it's inclusion in the banned list is really unwarranted.

[Gheizen64]

I disagree, the weakest card on the list are definetely Twist and Metalworker.
Tax work as a pseudo recall (cost 1, draw 3), that need much less work than Loam to work (you need just a fetch in response to Tax trigger going on stack, or am i mistaken? you don't even that much basic land, just 3 or 4 are ok). Also, it's a card that would push control (i'm thinking about 17-18 land Thresh), and control is probably the strongest possible archetype now in Legacy, with Countertop-Goyf. Add tax and a lot of player would probably play Countertop-Goyf-Tax deck.

[undone]

Its only really nuts with scroll rack. Outside of that it isnt very good. The thing is Scroll rack + CB is good and Scroll rack + land tax translates to a recall every turn. They are a natural 4 of inclusion in UGW goyf counter top. Im not saying its good or bad but it isnt so good that a 2 card combo to recall yourself should be banned (costs total of 4 mana and can occur on turn 4 at the earliest)

[Skeggi]

you need just a fetch in response to Tax trigger going on stack, or am i mistaken?
I think you are (mistaken, that is): Land Tax's trigger goes on the stack as soon as it's your upkeep. Then, on top of that, the fetchland would come, resolving, fetching a land. Then the Tax trigger resolves, seeing you have just as much lands as your opponent, doing nothing.

Making Land Tax viable means you have to miss at least one land drop, which seems weak in such a tempo-oriented format.

[Patrick]

I think you are (mistaken, that is): Land Tax's trigger goes on the stack as soon as it's your upkeep. Then, on top of that, the fetchland would come, resolving, fetching a land. Then the Tax trigger resolves, seeing you have just as much lands as your opponent, doing nothing.

Making Land Tax viable means you have to miss at least one land drop, which seems weak in such a tempo-oriented format.

On the draw Land Tax is amazing. It also makes Stax a house. Think about it: Land Stax.

[KillemallCFH]

Its only really nuts with scroll rack. Outside of that it isnt very good. The thing is Scroll rack + CB is good and Scroll rack + land tax translates to a recall every turn. They are a natural 4 of inclusion in UGW goyf counter top. Im not saying its good or bad but it isnt so good that a 2 card combo to recall yourself should be banned (costs total of 4 mana and can occur on turn 4 at the earliest)Land Tax/Scroll Rack is awful is UGW Thresh (well, it's awful in every deck, but especially this one). Land Tax requires you to miss a land drop, which in the Counter/Top mirror (as well as pretty much every other MU) sets you way back. It doesn't do anything immediately, and without Rack, its ability isn't even very useful. Likewise, despite its interaction with CB, Rack is horribly mediocre without Tax. Finally, if you don't have a Tax in your opening hand, then there is a good chance you'll never be able to set up the combo. If you just play the game normally and manage to hit more land drops than your opponent, then even if you draw into the "combo," it won't work.

Land Tax is garbage. It wouldn't make a bit of a dent on the format if it was unbanned.

[Skeggi]

It also makes Stax a house. Think about it: Land Stax.
I thought about it. Unfortunately part of the strength of current succesful Stax builds lies in the fact that they can power out Chalice@1 or Trinisphere turn 1. They seem to lack synergy with anything with cmc1. Also, if your opponent continues to sacrifice lands, Land Tax will fetch you no lands. And last, Stax always uses alot of nonbasic lands, you'll soon run out of targets.

A friend of mine used to have a Parfait-Stax deck, which had Land Taxes. But the Land Taxes got cut from the list.

Land Tax is pretty cool when it comes to something like this:
Turn 1: Tundra, Land Tax. Daze something ftw.

[DrJones]

Land Tax was amazing in Winter Orb/Static Orb/Stasis decks in which the opponent hadn't other way out than playing lands. It also was stupidly good in wheenie decks with empyrial armor, which for some reason has fallen out of favor (maybe because is not idiot-proof) but is still as good as it always was.

Other land tax sinergies include (in bold the more usual): Ivory Tower, Library of Alexandria, Mox Diamond, land equilibrium, mana vortex, scroll rack, scorched earth, land's edge, seismic assault, firestorm, wild mongrel, Devastating dreams (and the rest of the dream cycle), maro/armaggedon, solitary confinement, army ants, forbid, foil, trade routes, zuran orb, penance, domain, the awful "more cards than an opponent" kamigawa mechanic, and the "abolish" mechanic in prophecy.

[Nightmare]

Daze is pretty good in the Land Tax deck.

[DrJones]

Daze is pretty good anywhere.

[Aleksandr]

oh no, another Tax.thread.

http://www.forumspile.com/IBTL-Door.jpg

[Nightmare]

All I'm sayin is, Turn 1 Tundra, Land Tax, Daze your opening play is a pretty strong start.

[Aleksandr]

All I'm sayin is, Turn 1 Tundra, Land Tax, Daze your opening play is a pretty strong start.

Yes, it is, indeed. But I fear how this thread will look like in two hours... (Hint: like most of B/R discussions.)

[Arctic_Slicer]

All I'm sayin is, Turn 1 Tundra, Land Tax, Daze your opening play is a pretty strong start.

Yes it is but that play being strong has more to do with Daze than it does with Land Tax. Daze is a decent card anytime that isn't to bad to draw in the late game; Land Tax is something you wont want to in top deck mode.

[undone]

Yes it is but that play being strong has more to do with Daze than it does with Land Tax. Daze is a decent card anytime that isn't to bad to draw in the late game; Land Tax is something you wont want to in top deck mode.

The same is true of tundra and daze.... -.- Seriously top decking daze sucks almost as bad as land tax that doesnt make it not amazing. Im not saying it should be banned but I feel that people underestimate it.

[keys]

Tax is a suboptimal support card (the underwhelming Daze example aside...) and requires a deck designed around it to make it playable. It would give birth to some hybrid Enchantress/Stax/Loam deck that might resemble old Parfait in some cute ways, but I doubt it would be as competitive as any of those three archtypes. This would be a difficult card to break, imo.

[rufus]

Its only really nuts with scroll rack. Outside of that it isnt very good. The thing is Scroll rack + CB is good and Scroll rack + land tax translates to a recall every turn. They are a natural 4 of inclusion in UGW goyf counter top. I'm not saying its good or bad but it isnt so good that a 2 card combo to recall yourself should be banned (costs total of 4 mana and can occur on turn 4 at the earliest)

I would expect land tax to be relatively strong in combination with cards that use discarding as a cost. Cards like:
Raven's Crime
Ideas Unbound
Mox Diamond
Careful Study
Psychatog
Read the Runes
Foil

Could work very well in a land tax deck.

In practical terms, Land tax appears to be outperformed by Life from the Loam.

[Peter_Rotten]

When it comes to Land Tax threads, my care cup is empty.

c[_]

[Nihil Credo]

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/2189/23663.jpg