lordofthepit
05-09-2009, 05:14 PM
I played a UGr threshold build yesterday in my first organized (Friday Night Legacy) event in a while, and because some of my cards had not yet arrived and because I arrived with little time to spare, I had to hastily throw in some cards on the spot. The result was including Vedalken Shackles in a Countertop version of UGr threshold, which obviously began to blur the distinction between Threshold and the Countertop variants seen in the GP Chicago Top 8.
It was reasonably successful for my first time playing Legacy in a while, and Shackles won me games I had no business winning when it hit the table. I began thinking about what I would change, and I thought it would be great to have a deck full of bombs, each of which can change the complexion of the game, as well as the necessary cantrips to find them. Of course, this meant playing multiple copies of cards like Counterbalance, Top, and Shackles, cards which have minimal use in multiples. I thought it would be great if there was a better way (or at least another way) to control card quality in addition to Brainstorm/Top + fetchland. And what immediately came to mind was a Mirrodin instant that would not only confer card quality, but frequently card advantage as well.
// NAME: Thirsty Coatl
// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [B] Island (1)
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [B] Tropical Island
2 [B] Tundra
1 [B] Volcanic Island
1 [B] Underground Sea
// Creatures
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [ARB] Lorescale Coatl
// Spells
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [LRW] Ponder
4 [NE] Daze
4 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [FD] Vedalken Shackles
3 [MR] Thirst for Knowledge
3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
Choices:
Mana Base
- 8 Blue Fetchlands: Vital for thinning out the deck, providing shuffle effects, digging for the right colors, and grabbing basic islands early.
- Tropical Island: The deck needs green mana to play its threats.
- Tundra/Volcanic Island/Underground Sea: Initially, I was inclined to splash either white for Swords to Plowshares/Oblivion Ring or Red for Lightning Bolt/Fire Ice, but I think that Engineered Explosives is simply the more powerful answer to anything that might hit the board. The ability to potentially fetch 5 different colors allows one to make full use of EE.
- Islands: This deck plays four for more resistance to non-basic hate.
The main weakness of this manabase is the lack of non-Island basics, but only a single source of green mana is necessary to drop the key creatures. I'm not particularly worried about a Crucible/Wasteland lock or Back to Basics. Moon effects are obviously problematic, but I didn't see any yesterday, so I didn't think it was worth messing around with the mana base to make the deck more resilient to that. Furthermore, non-Island basics have poor synergy with Shackles.
The deck needs more mana to operate with its larger cantrip engine and the presence of Shackles, so it runs 20 lands, significantly more than Threshold decks generally do.
Creatures
- Tarmogoyf: I expect no argument here.
- Lorescale Coatl: This creature has spawned considerable debate, but I see no reason to play less than 3. Not trying to beat a dead horse, but the main criticisms of the Coatl are (a) no utility, (b) lack of evasion/trample, (c) poor topdeck, and (d) a win-more card encourages players to withhold cantrips. There are some merits to these criticisms, but even without evasion or trample, it puts tremendous pressure on the opponent. Depending on the board/hand situation, you can use these to bait out removal or counters to play Tarmogoyf, or you can play Tarmogoyf first to set up the more explosive but less consistent Coatl. The Coatl may not be as good a topdeck as Tarmogoyf, but it is generally better than any other Threshold creature besides Mystic Enforcer, and the potential for play mistakes is certainly not a reason to not include the Coatl.
This deck is fairly light on threats, but each of these 8 guys can go all the way in a few turns quite easily.
Cantrips/Card Drawing
- Brainstorm: Absolute no brainer in any blue-based deck, plus it has synergy with fetchlands and Coatl.
- Ponder: The next best blue cantrip. Although generally worse than Brainstorm, it provides an optional shuffle effect which can prove quite useful after a Brainstorm or Top inactivation leaves you with crap on top of the library, while effectively digging a card deeper.
- Sensei's Divining Top: You definitely want this card to hit to smooth out your draws, and the potential for abuse with Counterbalance need not be pointed out. It has minimal utility in multiples, but it can always replace itself. Moreover, you can pitch it to Thirst for Knowledge for card advantage, or you can combo out with the Coatl if you have Tops on the board.
- Thirst for Knowledge: In my opinion, this is a very underplayed card drawer in Legacy, probably because the 2{U} cost turns people off. However, that can be an advantage against Counterbalance (or with your own Counterbalance on the board). Moreover, at worst, it will allow you provide you with better than Brainstorm-like card quality, allowing to pitch two blanks into the graveyard (perhaps following a Brainstorm or several Top activations). It also has tremendous synergy with Coatl and the nine artifacts in the deck. Note that you can also use this to grow the Goyf at instant speed.
With these cantrips, you will have a considerable advantage in card quality over your opponent, and the Thirst for Knowledge will generally provide card advantage as well, something Threshold generally lacks aside from Counterbalance. You'll also be able to quickly chain together these effects to quickly grow your Coatl in the late game, without holding these cards back in the early game (which is generally a poor idea). Note that unlike previous ideas thrown around (Sylvan Library) to take advantage of the Coatl, each of these cards is quite strong on its own.
Other Spells
- Force of Will: Play four.
- Daze: Some people will play less than four Dazes, which is understandable, as this deck is less equipped to take advantage of the tempo generated than other Threshold builds. But on the other hand, Thirst for Knowledge means that you can more easily pitch Daze in the late game. I prefer four.
- Counterbalance: One of the most important cards in the deck, so I recommend four even though they have minimum use in multiples. They will always at least pitch to a Force or a Thirst, the latter frequently allowing your Tarmogoyf to grow.
- Vedalken Shackles: Doubles as a win condition and a source of removal. The 3 cc is generally a plus against Counterbalance.
- Engineered Explosives: Extremely versatile removal spell that doubles as fodder for Thirst for Knowledge. The ability to evade Counterbalance is a nice bonus.
I'd love to play some Trinket Mages to be able to take advantage of all the artifacts in this deck, but the list is kind of tight as is. I'm considering going with a tertiary color to splash for removal, but that would probably result in scraping the Engineered Explosives idea. One weakness is the lack of artifact/enchantment hate in the main board, but I do not like being stuck with potentially useless cards in Game 1. The sideboard is certain to include multiple copies of Krosan Grip.
It was reasonably successful for my first time playing Legacy in a while, and Shackles won me games I had no business winning when it hit the table. I began thinking about what I would change, and I thought it would be great to have a deck full of bombs, each of which can change the complexion of the game, as well as the necessary cantrips to find them. Of course, this meant playing multiple copies of cards like Counterbalance, Top, and Shackles, cards which have minimal use in multiples. I thought it would be great if there was a better way (or at least another way) to control card quality in addition to Brainstorm/Top + fetchland. And what immediately came to mind was a Mirrodin instant that would not only confer card quality, but frequently card advantage as well.
// NAME: Thirsty Coatl
// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [B] Island (1)
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [B] Tropical Island
2 [B] Tundra
1 [B] Volcanic Island
1 [B] Underground Sea
// Creatures
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [ARB] Lorescale Coatl
// Spells
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [LRW] Ponder
4 [NE] Daze
4 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [FD] Vedalken Shackles
3 [MR] Thirst for Knowledge
3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
Choices:
Mana Base
- 8 Blue Fetchlands: Vital for thinning out the deck, providing shuffle effects, digging for the right colors, and grabbing basic islands early.
- Tropical Island: The deck needs green mana to play its threats.
- Tundra/Volcanic Island/Underground Sea: Initially, I was inclined to splash either white for Swords to Plowshares/Oblivion Ring or Red for Lightning Bolt/Fire Ice, but I think that Engineered Explosives is simply the more powerful answer to anything that might hit the board. The ability to potentially fetch 5 different colors allows one to make full use of EE.
- Islands: This deck plays four for more resistance to non-basic hate.
The main weakness of this manabase is the lack of non-Island basics, but only a single source of green mana is necessary to drop the key creatures. I'm not particularly worried about a Crucible/Wasteland lock or Back to Basics. Moon effects are obviously problematic, but I didn't see any yesterday, so I didn't think it was worth messing around with the mana base to make the deck more resilient to that. Furthermore, non-Island basics have poor synergy with Shackles.
The deck needs more mana to operate with its larger cantrip engine and the presence of Shackles, so it runs 20 lands, significantly more than Threshold decks generally do.
Creatures
- Tarmogoyf: I expect no argument here.
- Lorescale Coatl: This creature has spawned considerable debate, but I see no reason to play less than 3. Not trying to beat a dead horse, but the main criticisms of the Coatl are (a) no utility, (b) lack of evasion/trample, (c) poor topdeck, and (d) a win-more card encourages players to withhold cantrips. There are some merits to these criticisms, but even without evasion or trample, it puts tremendous pressure on the opponent. Depending on the board/hand situation, you can use these to bait out removal or counters to play Tarmogoyf, or you can play Tarmogoyf first to set up the more explosive but less consistent Coatl. The Coatl may not be as good a topdeck as Tarmogoyf, but it is generally better than any other Threshold creature besides Mystic Enforcer, and the potential for play mistakes is certainly not a reason to not include the Coatl.
This deck is fairly light on threats, but each of these 8 guys can go all the way in a few turns quite easily.
Cantrips/Card Drawing
- Brainstorm: Absolute no brainer in any blue-based deck, plus it has synergy with fetchlands and Coatl.
- Ponder: The next best blue cantrip. Although generally worse than Brainstorm, it provides an optional shuffle effect which can prove quite useful after a Brainstorm or Top inactivation leaves you with crap on top of the library, while effectively digging a card deeper.
- Sensei's Divining Top: You definitely want this card to hit to smooth out your draws, and the potential for abuse with Counterbalance need not be pointed out. It has minimal utility in multiples, but it can always replace itself. Moreover, you can pitch it to Thirst for Knowledge for card advantage, or you can combo out with the Coatl if you have Tops on the board.
- Thirst for Knowledge: In my opinion, this is a very underplayed card drawer in Legacy, probably because the 2{U} cost turns people off. However, that can be an advantage against Counterbalance (or with your own Counterbalance on the board). Moreover, at worst, it will allow you provide you with better than Brainstorm-like card quality, allowing to pitch two blanks into the graveyard (perhaps following a Brainstorm or several Top activations). It also has tremendous synergy with Coatl and the nine artifacts in the deck. Note that you can also use this to grow the Goyf at instant speed.
With these cantrips, you will have a considerable advantage in card quality over your opponent, and the Thirst for Knowledge will generally provide card advantage as well, something Threshold generally lacks aside from Counterbalance. You'll also be able to quickly chain together these effects to quickly grow your Coatl in the late game, without holding these cards back in the early game (which is generally a poor idea). Note that unlike previous ideas thrown around (Sylvan Library) to take advantage of the Coatl, each of these cards is quite strong on its own.
Other Spells
- Force of Will: Play four.
- Daze: Some people will play less than four Dazes, which is understandable, as this deck is less equipped to take advantage of the tempo generated than other Threshold builds. But on the other hand, Thirst for Knowledge means that you can more easily pitch Daze in the late game. I prefer four.
- Counterbalance: One of the most important cards in the deck, so I recommend four even though they have minimum use in multiples. They will always at least pitch to a Force or a Thirst, the latter frequently allowing your Tarmogoyf to grow.
- Vedalken Shackles: Doubles as a win condition and a source of removal. The 3 cc is generally a plus against Counterbalance.
- Engineered Explosives: Extremely versatile removal spell that doubles as fodder for Thirst for Knowledge. The ability to evade Counterbalance is a nice bonus.
I'd love to play some Trinket Mages to be able to take advantage of all the artifacts in this deck, but the list is kind of tight as is. I'm considering going with a tertiary color to splash for removal, but that would probably result in scraping the Engineered Explosives idea. One weakness is the lack of artifact/enchantment hate in the main board, but I do not like being stuck with potentially useless cards in Game 1. The sideboard is certain to include multiple copies of Krosan Grip.