Lightning Bolt to be reprinted in M10

[Nightmare]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=3983822

Holy.

Shit.

[Nihil Credo]

*spits coffee*

[Atwa]

Nice, first they piss players off by changing the rules and to make sure they get a renewed interest in T2 (so they'll still buy packs) they reprint some golden oldies.

Ball Lightning, Lightning Bolt, the Knights.

I have playsets of all of them, so for me reprinting doesn't mean anything, but you got to admire the strategy used by WOTC.

[Bryant Cook]

Lightning Bolt will now be available in Japanese Foil.

[Jak]

If they brought back Counterspell, I would be ecstatic.

I might build a mono red deck for the fuck of it just to play standard with Bolt and Ball Lightning.

[jimmerz213]

Ball Lightning and Lightning Bolt...with Bloodbraid Elf...

I think Naya burn just became my new T2 Deck.

[rockout]

MMMMMMM...I can finally pack pull a foil bolt Hoorah!

[4eak]

Wow. I never thought they would do that.

I consider it a partial repayment for the rules changes.

I hope they bring back Counterspell!! =) (I'm pretty fucking sure they won't, but then again, I thought the same for Bolt.)





peace,
4eak

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

Standard just got 100 times more fun..bolt/blightning deck will rock...

[Nightmare]

I think Naya burn just became my new T2 Deck.

Why Naya, when you can play Jund, and get Anathemancer and Blightning, and Terminate?

[jimmerz213]

Why Naya, when you can play Jund, and get Anathemancer and Blightning, and Terminate?

Ahh good point. That would also let me run the Leech. I think I like the Jund option better..Especially since Duress is coming back too.

[rockout]

Is shard volley still legal when M10 comes out?

[Fons]

Is shard volley still legal when M10 comes out?
yes

[jimmerz213]

Is shard volley still legal when M10 comes out?

Until Zendikar I believe, which is when -- September ish?

[rockout]

Shard + Bolt makes me very happy.

[Dan Turner]

Holy Crap I just pissed myself in happiness, Japanese Foil Lightning bolts for my Goyf Sleigh.

[Sims]

Why Naya, when you can play Jund, and get Anathemancer and Blightning, and Terminate?

This man speaks truth.

Glad I've got all my Jund stuff already, just let M10 come out so I can sleeve up my Alpha Bolts again

[Finn]

I dont wanna steal the topic, but did that same discussion also mention that the Golden Lotus land was bogus? I thought I was getting that.

I also checked the spoiler and did not see it. Was that land a hoax?

[mujadaddy]

I dont wanna steal the topic, but did that same discussion also mention that the Golden Lotus land was bogus? I thought I was getting that.

I also checked the spoiler and did not see it. Was that land a hoax?I did a quick skim earlier -- the name was certainly bogus -- no word on the card, though. Oh, also, the art was for the wrong card.

[Nightmare]

Golden Lotus was a fake. That was debunked about two weeks ago.

[Finn]

OK, thx

[GGoober]

The Rack is in M10 as well?

I can see Blightning Aggro become insanely fast and powerful. Given enough discard cards to be printed, I think that Nyxathid might actually see play. Perhaps they're printing Hymn? :P

[Arsenal]

There's no reason to not play RGx Bloodbraid Elf now. Ball Lightning was bad enough, but with Lightning Bolt, RGx Bloodbraid is just the nutz now.

[DrJones]

It was rumoured a week ago, but now there is confirmation.

This core set might end being worth buying. I think the last one was fourth, with tenth being almost good enough. :)

[Finn]

Well, it is different from everything since Beta since it has at least one card that has never been printed before. So, it isn't quite the same animal as all the core sets in between. And it is having exactly the effect they have been looking to manage on all the sets in between.

[sunshine]

Wow, never thought I would see this happen. As a common too? You would think they'd at list bump it up to uncommon, I guess in such a large set it wouldn't be as much of a problem for limited but still.

[keys]

Hmmm they really want people to buy M10...

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

As far as apologies go, its a good start...I'm not sure how I feel about the rule changes yet, as I haven't really gotten to play with them, but for those who are angry, this seems to be a good move.

[Surging Chaos]

Can anyone say power creep for Standard and even Extended?

Bye bye Shock, it was nice knowing ya.

[FoolofaTook]

They had to do this or something similar. Creatures have been creeping up by leaps and bounds over the last year. Path to Exile and Lightning Bolt make for efficient creature removal for the two colors that are supposed to be able to do that fairly easily.

[tivadar]

Yeah, the power creep is starting to scare me. Bob, Goyf, BoP++, Knight of Reliquary, Coatl... Creatures are getting crazy!

[dirtyapes]

They might actually make this set worth buying. Between Duress and Lightning Bolt, they just need a couple of good rares and uncommons now.

[Nelis]

They might actually make this set worth buying. Between Duress and Lightning Bolt, they just need a couple of good rares and uncommons now.

Do you expect them to be common? I hope so, but am afraid they will be uncommon.

[jimmerz213]

Well, when they reprinted Story Circle they bumped it to a rare...so I wouldnt be surprised to see this go as an uncommon. Path was, so it would make sense.

[DrJones]

Path of Exile was uncommon, but Swords to Plowshares has always been uncommon. Lightning Bolt and Duress will probably be common because that's the rarity at which they play best in limited. Serra Angel was bumped to rare in seventh and in M10 is uncommon again, so maybe we won't see more abominations like rare Story Circle in the spoiler.

[Bryant Cook]

Bolt as a common will fuck up drafting terribly.

[jjjoness']

Bolt really really has to be common, because Coreset Uncommons are freakin' ugly. *shiver*

I just wonder if a newframe Coreset japanese foil Bolt is more pimp than an asian limited or Judge Foil one.

edit:
I haven't drafted coreset since 8th, which was pretty fucked up, because white tappers as commons destroy everything. I hated drafting 8th, so I decided not to draft the other coresets. How about 9th/10th?

[Bryant Cook]

Lightning Bolt will now be available in Japanese Foil.

Japanese Foil > English.

[Apex]

Wtf if it's printed in commons. 3 damage instant for 3 mana (that hits both players and creatures) is the benchmark for common burn spell, and suddenly they are going to shave off 2 mana? Incinerate was already kinda pushing it, and now they are going to bump 1 more mana off?

[mercenarybdu]

the new image for Lightning Bolt could be found here:
http://www.mymagic.ru/file_storage/m10_gallery

More people to join the fury (great thing I snapped up 9 copies, because from here on the price is going to jump).

EDIT: I almost forgotten, they're going to be Black Bordered too. So it might as well be a great idea to buy a few of those copies too for the Black borderedness.

[jimmerz213]

Japanese Foil > English.

What about FBB?

And anyway, arguments can be made for making it a common or an uncommon.

I really dont see it as a common though, I think it has to be an uncommon. It will provide a good chance to get them, but not a flood. If its a rare/mythic thats just stupid.

Path straight up removes a creature without a second thought and thats an uncommon. I think thats reason enough alone for Bolt to come back as an uncommon.

And since when did 3 for 3 become the benchmark of burn? The only burn spell I ever used that cost 3 was Javelin and that did 4...Im confused.

[Apex]

3 for 3 is the benchmark for common burn spells so not to fuck with limited. Yamabushi's Flame, Resounding Thunder, Volcanic Hammer (1R because it's a sorcery), Rift Bolt, etc, etc. It's been like this forever.

Sure you can have Char, Flame Javelin, etc that deals 4 for 3, or something like that, but they are rare/uncommon, and you can't count on them when you draft. If Bolt is printed as a common, you can pretty much always expect to draft a copy, and god forbid multiples (eot, bolt, bolt, untap, swing? And you suddenly just lost from a relatively comfortable position). It just creates bad limited environments.

[edgewalker]

3 for 3 is the benchmark for common burn spells so not to fuck with limited. Yamabushi's Flame, Resounding Thunder, Volcanic Hammer (1R because it's a sorcery), Rift Bolt, etc, etc. It's been like this forever

Forever being Kamigawa? I don't think it would be to bad in the common slot. It's core set, they're not that great to draft anyways.

[Sims]

Wtf if it's printed in commons. 3 damage instant for 3 mana (that hits both players and creatures) is the benchmark for common burn spell, and suddenly they are going to shave off 2 mana? Incinerate was already kinda pushing it, and now they are going to bump 1 more mana off?

1 for 3 common is where bolt has been at every time it's been printed. I do understand and think maybe it'd be better off as an uncommon, but odds are it'll stay common.

[jimmerz213]

3 for 3 is the benchmark for common burn spells so not to fuck with limited. Yamabushi's Flame, Resounding Thunder, Volcanic Hammer (1R because it's a sorcery), Rift Bolt, etc, etc. It's been like this forever.

Sure you can have Char, Flame Javelin, etc that deals 4 for 3, or something like that, but they are rare/uncommon, and you can't count on them when you draft. If Bolt is printed as a common, you can pretty much always expect to draft a copy, and god forbid multiples (eot, bolt, bolt, untap, swing? And you suddenly just lost from a relatively comfortable position). It just creates bad limited environments.

Ahh, I probably should read better, I missed the word Limited. I was thinking about when I used to play legacy burn, my bad.

If its a common, it will cause a little problem in draft, but keep in mind they havent spoiled all the cards yet. They very well could print an answer in a ton of different forms.

[Apex]

Forever being Kamigawa? I don't think it would be to bad in the common slot. It's core set, they're not that great to draft anyways.

Uh, only 1 card from that list came from Kamigawa, and it had a relevant secondary ability in RFGing stuff (spiritcraft). Here's a list of recently printed common burn spells:

Puncture Blast (3 for 3, first pick)
Flame Jab (basically 3 for 3, high pick)
Lash Out (2 for 3, can't hit players, high pick)
Resounding Thunder (3 for 3, first pick)
Burn Trail (4 for 3, can deal more, sorcery, very high pick)
Shard Volley (1 for 3, but pretty big drawback, high pick)
Tar Fire (1 for 2, tribal, high pick)
Rift Bolt (3 for 3, suspend, 1st pick)
Incinerate (2 for 3, 1st pick)
Shock (1 for 2, very high pick)

You see how none of those were from Kamigawa, and how Lightning Bolt is better than every single one of those? Plus, it would be a triple M10 draft environment. That's just bad for drafts. Lightning Bolt would be like ultra-first-splash in whatever deck-pick.

Though I guess WoTC probably don't care about coreset drafts. But they are not bad for making money. Core sets consistently give the highest resell value because of all the lands, staples like Birds and stuff. I draft alot of triple 10th online since it's much easier to break even or come out ahead a bit.

[DrJones]

These burn spells are high picks because they are 'the cheap burn spell of this set', regardless of how powerful they are compared with other burn spells. In that aspect, Terror and Oblivion Ring are also very high picks and they are commons, and in limited I would rate Oblivion Ring above Bolt.

These cards have to be common because in limited, answers have to be of at least the same rarity than the threats, and there are enough threats at common to justify having these powerful cards at common.

[Anusien]

Incinerate was common in 10th.

[Jak]

Uh, only 1 card from that list came from Kamigawa, and it had a relevant secondary ability in RFGing stuff (spiritcraft). Here's a list of recently printed common burn spells:

Puncture Blast (3 for 3, first pick)
Flame Jab (basically 3 for 3, high pick)
Lash Out (2 for 3, can't hit players, high pick)
Resounding Thunder (3 for 3, first pick)
Burn Trail (4 for 3, can deal more, sorcery, very high pick)
Shard Volley (1 for 3, but pretty big drawback, high pick)
Tar Fire (1 for 2, tribal, high pick)
Rift Bolt (3 for 3, suspend, 1st pick)
Incinerate (2 for 3, 1st pick)
Shock (1 for 2, very high pick)

You see how none of those were from Kamigawa, and how Lightning Bolt is better than every single one of those? Plus, it would be a triple M10 draft environment. That's just bad for drafts. Lightning Bolt would be like ultra-first-splash in whatever deck-pick.

Though I guess WoTC probably don't care about coreset drafts. But they are not bad for making money. Core sets consistently give the highest resell value because of all the lands, staples like Birds and stuff. I draft alot of triple 10th online since it's much easier to break even or come out ahead a bit.

Lol what he was saying is that all the cards you listed were very recent, the latest being Kamigawa.

Anyway, Lightning Bolt would be awesome as a common.

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

Even at common its not going to be Coldsnap crazy. It's a large enough set that it won't devestate anything.

[Apex]

These burn spells are high picks because they are 'the cheap burn spell of this set', regardless of how powerful they are compared with other burn spells. In that aspect, Terror and Oblivion Ring are also very high picks and they are commons, and in limited I would rate Oblivion Ring above Bolt.

These cards have to be common because in limited, answers have to be of at least the same rarity than the threats, and there are enough threats at common to justify having these powerful cards at common.

I would only rate O-ring above Bolt if certain archetypes were just so much better than others. Heck, I consistently take Akrasan Squire over Resounding Thunder P1P1, because UW aggro is so good, that doesn't mean Resounding Thunder isn't a much better card (and it is, in a vacuum). Otherwise, Bolt is far superior, particularly when it's a coreset draft, where things aren't that complicated.

I have no qualms about printing removal in commons, but not uber-efficient removal that has no drawbacks. Even Terminate required 2 colours, whereas I could be in UW tempo and still splash for Lightning Bolt (heck, Lightning Bolt would probably be really really good in UW tempo). There are enough threats in the commons, but they often come in the form of 2 mana for 2/2 or 4 mana for 3/3. Occasionally you get a 4 mana 3/2 flier, and that's a first pick. The threats are nowhere as near as efficient as Lightning Bolt. By your line of reasoning, Flame Javelin and Char needed to be printed in the commons, since "there are enough threats at common to justify having these powerful cards at common", and you should see why that's not a good idea.

[Dark_Cynic87]

The pleas of limited and standard have fallen on deaf ears in a Legacy-oriented message board. Woe is you.

It should be noted that with combat rules changing at M10, it loses some of it's power.

Pce,

--DC

[DrJones]

I have no qualms about printing removal in commons, but not uber-efficient removal that has no drawbacks. Even Terminate required 2 colours, whereas I could be in UW tempo and still splash for Lightning Bolt (heck, Lightning Bolt would probably be really really good in UW tempo). There are enough threats in the commons, but they often come in the form of 2 mana for 2/2 or 4 mana for 3/3. Occasionally you get a 4 mana 3/2 flier, and that's a first pick. The threats are nowhere as near as efficient as Lightning Bolt.Lightning Bolt has enough drawbacks in that it cannot kill a creature with high enough toughness, the creature can be regenerated, the damage can be prevented, the creature can grow too big for it, and in limited shaving off one mana of Incinerate is not such a big deal as you paint it.

[Nihil Credo]

Also, this is Core Set Limited that we're talking about. If it's anything at all like the previous editions, it won't be one-quarter as fast as any of the most recent Expert-level expansions, CA will be king as it was in 8/9/10th Draft, and Lightning Bolt just very good.

[Michael Keller]

Lightning Bolt has always been one of my favorite cards. I can't believe it is being reprinted; fantastic. I can't wait to pick up a new set...

But I still like the old art better.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Lightning Bolt will now be available in Russian Foil.


Fixed.

[beastman]

Lightning Bolt will now be available in Japanese Foil.

THIS!!!!!!

[memnarch]

Wow. I never thought they would do that.

I consider it a partial repayment for the rules changes.

I hope they bring back Counterspell!! =) (I'm pretty fucking sure they won't, but then again, I thought the same for Bolt.)





peace,
4eak

Ha Ha Ha I agree. Wizards did some good and bad things this quarter. nice :tongue:

[Arctic_Slicer]

When did Lightning bolt stop being "too good to reprint"? I thought getting Incinerate back in 10th edition was pretty impressive but now we're getting the original and best burn spell ever printed? Awesome! It's still not enough to make me want to buy M10 though.

[ParkerLewis]

When did Lightning bolt stop being "too good to reprint"?

When creatures started getting stronger and especially tougher for the same mana cost.

I'm not implying I wasn't surprised to see it back, though. I didn't see it coming in the least.

[Aggro_zombies]

Lightning Bolt will now be available in Japanese Foil.
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o226/jbrennan0512/1233849658272.jpg

[etrigan]

Lightning Bolt will now be available in Japanese Foil.

With an ugly M10 logo on it.

e: This probably bad for limited, but who really played limited with a core set? It's fine for Standard and Extended, where the creatures have gotten much bigger of late. Domain Zoo, if it wasn't before, will be the best deck in Extended.

[Van Phanel]

With an ugly M10 logo on it.

e: This probably bad for limited, but who really played limited with a core set? It's fine for Standard and Extended, where the creatures have gotten much bigger of late. Domain Zoo, if it wasn't before, will be the best deck in Extended.

For 2 months if at all.


@Topic: Wow. I have to admit that I like this.

[sdematt]

I'll be honest, I'm pretty pumped for this. I do prefer the old art, So I'll be picking up a playset (even though I won't play them). If they art were better, I'd be more inclined to pick up a set when its released. I still will, but I'd have to see how it looks on the card. It kinda feels like "Limited Edition: 2" is being released, with some new updates.

Sorry to go off topic; Is there any word on the art for Duress?

[DrJones]

The art for Duress is the one in Divine vs Demonic.

[Captain_Morgan]

Yeah, the power creep is starting to scare me. Bob, Goyf, BoP++, Knight of Reliquary, Coatl... Creatures are getting crazy!

Better than Hill Giant variants. Creatures I think are at a good powerlevel now, minus the sacrifice nerf. The older spells comming back are great.

Hopefully they bring back Swords to Plowshares in Magic 11th or whatever it's called with Counterspell.

[MTG-Fan]

Better than Hill Giant variants. Creatures I think are at a good powerlevel now, minus the sacrifice nerf. The older spells comming back are great.

Hopefully they bring back Swords to Plowshares in Magic 11th or whatever it's called with Counterspell.

They sort of already brought back StP in "Path to Exile".

[Pinder]

A quick mockup from the art that was linked:

http://imgur.com/3eC0B.jpg

Now just imagine it foil, in a foreign language, or both.

[Loxodon Baileyarch]

Domain Zoo, if it wasn't before, will be the best deck in Extended.
Fetches rotate.

Back to RG or Boros.

woot:cool:

[Wargoos]

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o226/jbrennan0512/1233849658272.jpg

That was exactly how I looked the whole day (according to my gf).
Man Im so goin to play Standart Jund now...

[Nihil Credo]

The lightning bolt spell is one of the most classic expressions of wizardly power in fantasy. The idea of calling lightning down from the sky with one's own personal power to cause destruction is intoxicating. Of course, Magic's Lightning Bolt (javascript:autoCardWindow('Lightning_Bolt')) is famous not only because it is a simple and resonant expression of a fantasy concept. It also happens to be very powerful. When I started playing Magic in 1997, starting the game off with a Lightning Bolt (javascript:autoCardWindow('Lightning_Bolt')) to my opponent's face just felt awesome. Later, I learned that I could save it to kill my opponent's creatures. Lightning Bolt (javascript:autoCardWindow('Lightning_Bolt')) was a strong constraint on early tournament Magic; creatures needed to be extremely efficient or have 4 toughness to be widely adopted.
We've tried to capture the magic of Lightning Bolt (javascript:autoCardWindow('Lightning_Bolt')) many times, often in ways that have different gameplay than the original. Cards like Shock, Lightning Blast, Barbed Lightning, Branching Bolt, Chain Lightning (javascript:autoCardWindow('Chain_Lightning')), and so on are attempts to make lightning spells of a lower power level than Lightning Bolt (javascript:autoCardWindow('Lightning_Bolt')) that have interesting game play. However, many players still wax reminiscent about the original, including those of us here in Magic R&D. We love the name "Lightning Bolt" and we all have fond memories of playing with the card. Creatures have grown some in power level since Lightning Bolt (javascript:autoCardWindow('Lightning_Bolt')) was last in Standard; however, we've been happy with cards like Shock, Incinerate, and Volcanic Hammer for years. If Lightning Bolt were ever to return, it would be only after careful consideration and extensive playtesting.

[Wargoos]

however, we've been happy with cards like Shock, Incinerate, and Volcanic Hammer for years. If Lightning Bolt were ever to return, it would be only after careful consideration and extensive playtesting.

NC has the ability to crush ones euphoric mood without actually typing something.
I kinda respect that.

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

Was that printed as a denial or a cruel tease?

You tell me; I'm leaning towards the latter, myself. ~NC

[scrumdogg]

blah bla WOTC talking...something about extensive testing blah blah.

Like the FFL they are always touting? That sort of extensive testing? Or are they suddenly concerned with multiple formats? Or, as noted, perhaps they are simply fucking with us simple Magic players (not that WOTC would do that....)

[Roman Candle]

How sure are we that this is reputable? In the XBox Duels of the Planeswalkers game, the red decks have Shock and Incinerate, but no Lightning Bolt, and I get the feeling that the game is going to be a good representation of what we're getting in M10.

[DragoFireheart]

How sure are we that this is reputable? In the XBox Duels of the Planeswalkers game, the red decks have Shock and Incinerate, but no Lightning Bolt, and I get the feeling that the game is going to be a good representation of what we're getting in M10.

Maybe M10 is a special case?


Also, which picture looks better? Old school or new-pinkish version?

[Wargoos]

Like the FFL they are always touting? That sort of extensive testing? Or are they suddenly concerned with multiple formats? Or, as noted, perhaps they are simply fucking with us simple Magic players (not that WOTC would do that....)

Wow, dude!

That quote was not representing my opinion.
I was referring to the part of the WotC letter, which sucked most.#
(And I guess my reaction isn't that missunderstandable)

[Michael Keller]

A quick mockup from the art that was linked:

http://imgur.com/3eC0B.jpg




-1.

[Skeggi]

How can this be format discussion? What impact will the reprint of a Legacy staple have on... Legacy?

[Wargoos]

How can this be format discussion? What impact will the reprint of a Legacy staple have on... Legacy?



This:

Lightning Bolt will now be available in Japanese Foil.

[Seregrauko]

Touché!

Everybody knows that asian/russian foils are so much better than their whiteboardered counterparts! Somebody should take a closer look at this.. Make a pimp and non-pimp deck and then play it against the same decks. I'm sure the pimped deck will achieve a higher win %! :D

This sounds like a pretty solid coreset.. Can't wait to see if it holds more surprises! And the (unconfirmed?) art on LB rocks!

[Skeggi]

Make a pimp and non-pimp deck and then play it against the same decks. I'm sure the pimped deck will achieve a higher win %!
Based on what? Gut feeling?

[Maveric78f]

Based on what? Gut feeling?
Because you can recognise foils from alpha/beta/unlim cards with manipulations, as foils are more rigid.

Chinese cards are also known to be made of coconut paper, which is a bit thicker than ours.

[Skeggi]

So based on cheating...

Anyway, if a larger part of your deck is foil, it doesn't matter, does it?

[Dark_Shakuras]

Chinese cards are also known to be made of coconut paper, which is a bit thicker than ours.

You sir are false. All cards are printed by Wizards, at Wizards (or who ever their printer is) All cards are printed exactly the same.

[Skeggi]

You sir are false. All cards are printed by Wizards, at Wizards (or who ever their printer is) All cards are printed exactly the same.
You sir are false. All European cards are printed at Cartamundi in Belgium. It's not hard to imagine all Asian cards are printed somewhere in Asia.

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

Because you can recognise foils from alpha/beta/unlim cards with manipulations, as foils are more rigid.


Not to mention the INTIMIDATION factor of foil.


Chinese cards are also known to be made of coconut paper, which is a bit MORE DELICIOUS than ours.

Fixed.

[Maveric78f]

My last post was obviously here for an entertainment purpose. Don't try to find information where there is not any. I think that this advice could also apply to the post of Seregrauko.

I could have been a bit further, but some of you would have suspected that I'm racist and rude (chinese foil being thicker and more rigid).

[Maveric78f]

Jokes apart, one friend of mine won a match where he had a lot of creatures into play (6-8), including some foils. He fainted to stack all the identical creatures together, but 1 foil was paired with a different non foil creature. His opponent lost because he thought it was the same creature.

You see how real information is boring compared to coconut paper? (and less delicious, Wrath_Of_Houlding)

[Mordel]

Aside from limited, I don't really see lightning bolt being a big gift to make up for removing some more [regardless of how small] complexity from standard and extended. Oh frabjous day! A burn spell. Too bad standard format games are mind-numbingly simple as far as interactions go and has been heading that way for the last few years...except when Dralnu de(sic) Louvre and Guile.dec popped up for a bit. It's going to take a hell of a lot more than duress, knights and bringing back a card(bolt) that caters to one of the more perennial and simplistic archetypes in the game.

Give me effective mono colour or damn near mono colour control decks that can run under eight creatures again. Being forced to run five colours give or take(regardless of splashes) and being entirely board control-focused is a very sad place for control to be. At least 5c Donais control had numerous counters in it. Modern standard control decks are just fucking sad.

[Captain_Morgan]

They sort of already brought back StP in "Path to Exile".

I just like StP more than PtE, I just enjoyed hearing farmer jokes and the reference to that one Gwar song. PtE just doesn't have the same effect on drunken conversation.

[majikal]

I just like StP more than PtE, I just enjoyed hearing farmer jokes and the reference to that one Gwar song. PtE just doesn't have the same effect on drunken conversation.
But you can say things like "Get your filthy creature out of my house!" or "Your Tarmogoyf must live out the rest of his days in shame" or whatever. It's a lot funnier when you're drunk.

[TheCramp]

It's on the wizards visual spoiler. It's in, it's a common.

[Dan Turner]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=90785&d=1245831012

I will let the card speak for itself

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Eh.

This makes it more likely that Wrath won't get printed again. In fact, now that I think about it, everything about the changes they've announced makes me think they're ganking Wrath. They're never going to get a better opportunity to do it. It's the only format-defining constant reprint left, and they probably want to see what Standard looks like without it for a couple of years.

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

Do you think they'll print Damnation to make up for it, or will Standard just be without a 4cc sweeper for the first time ever?

[Sims]

The flavor text rocks, at least in my humble opinion. It reflects their knowing that most of us would have never imagined they would reprint that card.

[majikal]

or will Standard just be without a 4cc sweeper for the first time ever?
It's definitely a possibility. Between all the huge walls they've been printing lately and the return of Lightning Bolt, I'd say Wrath is probably on its way out.

[ParkerLewis]

The flavor text rocks, at least in my humble opinion. It reflects their knowing that most of us would have never imagined they would reprint that card.

What's most surprising is how this "hidden" sense isn't even hidden at all, it's basically spelled out loud, which makes it quite funny to read. Nice !

[Shabbaman]

The flavor text rocks, at least in my humble opinion. It reflects their knowing that most of us would have never imagined they would reprint that card.

Indeed! I was genuinely surprised with the text, "did they really write that?". I played when 4th was printed, so this flavor text really suits me personally.

[Skeggi]

I played when 4th was printed, so this flavor text really suits me personally.

Yes, they reprinted the card just for you. Didn't you know? You're special.

http://www.bcbudget.gov.bc.ca/annual_reports/2005_2006/cfd/img/cfd_Picture-1_crop.gif

[DrJones]

Yes, they reprinted the card just for you. Didn't you know? You're special.Though that's probably not the case with Lightning Bolt, WotC does indeed print cards just for one person. But if you are not that person, it's easy to miss the reference. :wink:

[Nihil Credo]

It's definitely a possibility. Between all the huge walls they've been printing lately and the return of Lightning Bolt, I'd say Wrath is probably on its way out.
They just spoiled Planar Cleansing (3WWW, Destroy all non-land permanents), so that's another hint that Wrath may be out.

On the other side, it seems a really, really bad moment to take it off of Standard, given that creatures are at an all-time high in term of power level. But maybe Zendikar will tone that down a lot compared to Lorwyn/Shadowmoor, and they think a couple months of aggro-fest is acceptable.

On a related note, I thought it was absurd to print Serra Angel while M10 has Baneslayer Angel at the same manacost with Flying, FS, Lifelink and Pro:Demons,Dragons. Then I realised that Baneslayer is a mythic while Serra is now uncommon. Nice.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

They're flavor re-booting the core set, and the name Wrath of God has always had some issues. It's been the only card that's always been in Standard and always been influential, so they probably really want to try some time without it. It's also the best possible time to take it out, when everyone's distracted by goings on with changes anyway. Lightning Bolt, Duress, etc., are probably just to get people to shut up about all the changes.

Although Lightning Bolt being reprinted still shocks me. (insert burn spell joke here). Incinerate was doing really well already.

Now let's see them reprint Hymn to Tourach.

[rockout]

Also, Baneslayer is a 5/5, where as, Serra Angel is a 4/4.

[kabal]

Also, Baneslayer is a 5/5, where as, Serra Angel is a 4/4.



On a related note, I thought it was absurd to print Serra Angel while M10 has Baneslayer Angel at the same manacost with Flying, FS, Lifelink and Pro:Demons,Dragons. Then I realised that Baneslayer is a mythic while Serra is now uncommon. Nice.

[TheRock]

This set, rule changes and all, just keeps getting worse...

Bogardan Shitkite as a mythic? Come on, there's only 50 better dragons (even with Dragonstorm, he's just win-more anyway over hasty goodness)...

Lightning Bolt as a common when you want to make as much money as possible (especially when people will want foils ASAP) and make Limited interesting so you can print and sell lots more of this set? I get the whole correct legality issue and I know that printing a copy of a major D&D spell is really nice, but this is really dumb.

What's next - choosing Blaze over Fireball (which was the most important spell in 1st ed. D&D)? Having all control AND combo decks disappear so that we're all forced to swing and play idiot-proof combat tricks (which is definitely where this set is heading)?

To be honest, I would rather be playing a format with interrupts again and combat damage going on the stack even if that meant we would see the next 15 sets being as bad as Prophecy...

* end rant *

Things always change, but some people in America have IQs higher than 100. This game is definitely heading down that really terrible path where things like FF7 and movies have gone down.

[jimmerz213]

To be honest, I would rather be playing a format with interrupts again and combat damage going on the stack even if that meant we would see the next 15 sets being as bad as Prophecy...


Hey hey hey....hold your tongue! Citadel of Pain + Chimeric Idol + Well of Life was the best combo evar!

Anyway..

I saw they spoiled Cancel and Negate...so do you think that means the axe on Counterspell getting printed? Its kind of odd that Bolt and Giant Growth made the cut but the odds are heavily against Wrath and Counter.

[phoenix33]

Bogardan Shitkite as a mythic? Come on, there's only 50 better dragons (even with Dragonstorm, he's just win-more anyway over hasty goodness)...

Hellkite was played in Mana Ramp and UR Tron without Dragonstorm, only Kamigawa dragons saw similar amounts of play in recent memory.

[C.P.]

Bogardan Shitkite as a mythic? Come on, there's only 50 better dragons (even with Dragonstorm, he's just win-more anyway over hasty goodness)...



It being a mythinc is quite dumb, but the card is pretty powerful and has plenty of casual apeal. I don't see what's wrong with it. Also, I'm sure every EDh decks I have will take Helkite over 'Haste goodness' you talk about.

[TheRock]

So Broodmate Dragon, Chameleon Colossus, Eternal Dragon, Dromar and Rakdos Pit Dragon mean nothing? I mean, I understand that he was run in a few decks, but he clearly wasn't run because he was a good card - for the most part, he fit one bill because there was no great dragon with haste.

The problem with the EDH argument is that everybody already has their dragons. Reprinting it, especially as a mythic, does very little good.

I believe that Wrath was said to be out.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

This set, rule changes and all, just keeps getting worse...

Bogardan Shitkite as a mythic? Come on, there's only 50 better dragons (even with Dragonstorm, he's just win-more anyway over hasty goodness)...

Lightning Bolt as a common when you want to make as much money as possible (especially when people will want foils ASAP) and make Limited interesting so you can print and sell lots more of this set? I get the whole correct legality issue and I know that printing a copy of a major D&D spell is really nice, but this is really dumb.

What's next - choosing Blaze over Fireball (which was the most important spell in 1st ed. D&D)? Having all control AND combo decks disappear so that we're all forced to swing and play idiot-proof combat tricks (which is definitely where this set is heading)?

To be honest, I would rather be playing a format with interrupts again and combat damage going on the stack even if that meant we would see the next 15 sets being as bad as Prophecy...

* end rant *

Things always change, but some people in America have IQs higher than 100. This game is definitely heading down that really terrible path where things like FF7 and movies have gone down.

It is really, really hard for a common to be played enough to become really valuable. Even at the height of say, Sakura-Tribe Elder's popularity in Block (when it was everywhere), it didn't cost a buck unless you were buying it from the house ten minutes before a GP.

[Skeggi]

They just spoiled Planar Cleansing (3WWW, Destroy all non-land permanents), so that's another hint that Wrath may be out.
A hint? That's basically flat-out telling there'll be no WoG in M10. But seriously, who cares, there's still WoG in Legacy. Why is this in format discussion again?

[Carabas]

So Broodmate Dragon, Chameleon Colossus, Eternal Dragon, Dromar and Rakdos Pit Dragon mean nothing?

Hellkite is removal, sometimes acting as a 4-for 1 (flash in to block, kill 2 guys with the 5 damage, and now you've got a 5/5 beatstick). As for the options you gave, they are all a)multicolor or b) using a block mechanic. The only other dragon I could see in the mythic slot over Hellkite would be Rorix Bladewing, and he just doesn't seem as cool.

[coraz86]

It being a mythinc is quite dumb, but the card is pretty powerful and has plenty of casual apeal.

The folks at Wizards have mentioned that sometimes they base rarities on a card's power in Limited formats. Bogardan Hellkite is retarded in Limited, which is probably why they made it mythic. Unless it got better art this time around (which I doubt; the TS art was pretty spiffy), I can't see that hurting the secondary market for it a whole lot. It should still only cost maybe five bucks, if that.

I would argue that him having flash actually makes him a hell of a lot better than him having haste. It's like Vine Dryad and FtK mashed together, and each of those cards is good on its own. Haste would make Hellkite a little-kid card; flash makes Hellkite a quality control card.

[Amon Amarth]

It is really, really hard for a common to be played enough to become really valuable. Even at the height of say, Sakura-Tribe Elder's popularity in Block (when it was everywhere), it didn't cost a buck unless you were buying it from the house ten minutes before a GP.

Blastoderm got really expensive and was near impossible to find during the Fires era Standard. Wild Mongrel was pretty hard to find for a time too. That's all I can think of tho'.

I don't think WoG will make it seeing as how Planar Cleansing was just spoiled. That doesn't really make much sense because all the Control tools, thus far, are about the same as they have always been. However, Aggro decks of all colors have received a huge influx of reprints/new cards to play with. A six mana Wrath effect is just tad too slow when your opponent is throwing fucking Bolts at your face.

What are they going to give Control?

[DrJones]

What are they going to give Control?A kick in the nuts!

Sorry, I couldn't resist. :tongue:

[DragoFireheart]

What are they going to give Control?

Cancel? Over costed control spells?

WotC does not want the standard format to be heavily influenced by control decks like Legacy.

[atv]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=90785&d=1245831012

I will let the card speak for itself

I don't like the art, but that flavor text is just awesome.