[Discussion] Power Creep?

[Finn]

Some more stuff spoiled at Salvation. I am noticing a pattern here.

Guardian Seraph
2ww
Creature - Angel Rare
Flying
If a source an opponent controls would deal damage to you, prevent 1 of that damage.
Illus. Paul Bonner 3/4

Honor of the Pure
1w
Enchantment Rare
White creatures you control get +1/+1.
Together the soldiers were like a golden blade, cutting down their enemies and scarring the darkness.
Illus. Greg Staples

Is WOTC purposely trying to revisit the power level of older days? Are they rewriting the boundaries here? There is a clear creep in power in these white cards. There are some red ones as well, but in these cases it is pretty obvious. What is this about?

[Octopusman]

Have you seen the other angel?

Baneslayer Angel 3WW
Creature —Angel M
Flying, first strike, lifelink, protection from Demons and from Dragons
Some angels protect the meek and innocent. Others seek out and smite evil wherever it lurks.
5/5
Greg Staples
Card Nbr: 4

I can't imagine this seeing print as is.... way too good imo.

I think they want to make it up to white for taking away wrath of god? Who knows.
I'm happy!

[JeroenC]

Honestly, if this is all correct, white is finally getting the boost everybody wanted for it. Too bad it's going to make green outdated as the creature color now. :(

[Jak]

Honestly, if this is all correct, white is finally getting the boost everybody wanted for it. Too bad it's going to make green outdated as the creature color now. :(

Yeah! Why splash green 2cc vanilla dude when we could have this 5c angel?

[TheAardvark]

Is WOTC purposely trying to revisit the power level of older days? Are they rewriting the boundaries here? There is a clear creep in power in these white cards. There are some red ones as well, but in these cases it is pretty obvious. What is this about?

See I view it a little differently. To me, the average power level for cards right now for the current Standard format is the second highest ever, behind only Rath + Urza block times. Creatures are WAY better than they have ever been, for sure, and they're pushing at the limits because they've never really done that with creatures before. The combination of insanely good, efficient creatures + no Wrath of God (a harder to cast Akroma's Vengeance isn't a replacement at all) changes things drastically; it's like a Block format where the only sweepers are really overcosted or bad.

As far as specific M10 cards showing creep, I think the 3/3 for GG1 with pro blue, pro black, and uncounterability is a good example. It doesn't survive the Bolt litmus test, but it's still really good.

Just my thoughts.

[rockout]

It's not necessarily a power creep in terms of white in just the new set is what I meant. Remember BW tokens? Windbrisk Heights? Reveilark?

[Cire]

i think the best way to look at it is that non-creature spells (instants and sorceries) were always the ones that were being broken and overpowered. Now wizards is allowing creatures to play catchup. For standard this means a completely different format which is heavily invested in combat and creature interactions, while for the eternal formats we are now playing begining to play even slips of creatures and spells instead of running a bunch of spells and finishers. Goyf was apparently the first step on this path but this road isn't over

[JeroenC]

Goyf was a mistake- this has been mentioned by Wizards a number of times.
Other than that, I have to agree. Wizards seems to be changing their balancing strategy. Instead of nerfing instants, they're allowing creatures to become better.

[pw709]

I've got some great ideas for creatures:

Mistbind Drain UU
Creature - Faerie Wizard
Flash
Flying
When Mistbind Drain enters the battlefield, counter target spell. At the beginning of your next main phase, add X to your mana pool, where X is that spell's converted mana cost.
0/0

Scion of Will 3UU
Creature - Faerie Wizard
You may pay 1 life and remove a blue card in your hand from the game rather than pay Scion of Will's mana cost.
Flash
Flying
When Scion of Will enters the battlefield, counter target spell.
0/0

[DrJones]

As far as specific M10 cards showing creep, I think the 3/3 for GG1 with pro blue, pro black, and uncounterability is a good example. It doesn't survive the Bolt litmus test, but it's still really good.

Just my thoughts.It's good, but not really good. R&D just realized that green blue hosers shouldn't suck so bad nobody wants to play them, (I'm looking at you, Bull Hippo) and also discovering that protection from blue isn't enough when almost every form of "blue removal" evades it. Note that they no longer print real hosers like Choke that actually get the work done, because in their words these cards are "too easy" to set and "too difficult" to fight back.

[Skeggi]

It's not just M10, they've been at it for quite a while I think. Creatures have already gotten way better than Alpha. There's only 1 creature in Alpha that sees play in current Legacy, and that's Lord of Atlantis, and even that card actually has improved overtime, since the errata. The old beaters like Juzam Djinn, Ernham Djinn and Balduvian Horde just don't matter anymore. Just compare Grizzly Bears to Tarmogoyf, the power level of creatures has gone through the roof.

I think the explanation is that Wizards wants to keep big creature battles in Standard, because that attracts most new players. And ofcourse, to keep selling new cards, also for the Eternal scene, you have to keep printing better cards.

Here's a perfect example of how power level creeps up:

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/mr/350.jpghttp://magiccards.info/scans/en/lw/28.jpg

Not only costs Knight half the mana in 1 color, it also has First Strike. That's no power creep, that's a huge power boost!

[JeroenC]

I think you mean "it also has first strike", but maybe that's just me.

Also, I think I get it. And I hope this is temporary. Wizards is breaking down on the strategies that are "not fun". Which is why we'll see blue probably becoming weaker, as most of those strategies (I'm looking at you, permission) want blue.
What are the things they don't want anymore?
-permission control, instead shifting toward hand-based control or board control. So while control is still viable, it's most powerful form has been taken out.
-combo. 'Nuff said.

In short, they don't want games low on interactivity. I'm not a fan of this, because those strategies may not be very fun to sit down against, but some of us do enjoy playing them.

[Finn]

More examples:


Xathrid Demon

Creature - Demon
Flying, trample
At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice a creature other than Xathrid Demon, then each opponent loses life equal to the sacrificed creature�s power. If you can't sacrifice a creature, tap Xathrid Demon and you lose 7 life.
Illus. Wayne Reynolds 7/7

Can you say Lord of the Pit?


Great Sable Stag

Creature - Elk
Great Sable Stag can't be countered.
Protection from blue and from black (This creature can't be blocked, targeted, dealt damage, or enchanted by anything blue or black.)
Ineffable and incorruptible.
Illus. Matt Cavotta 3/3

This was a good find, Aardvark. My point was that Wizards has pussyfooted in the past when it came to new cards being comparable to old ones. They would add some twist to prevent direct comparison. Even in the case of Tarmo, there is that occasion in which it is less than a 2/2 briefly. But they are not doing that here. They are making cards that are pretty much strictly better than older versions of the same card. This seems to be intentional, and I would like to hear what is going on.

[jjjoness']

I'm just disappointed, Magic is more and more dying for me. Why? While the power creep doesn't really affect legacy, because of the huge pool available, it totally craps out Casual games. I simply can't play with my old cards any longer. Madness used to be a cool deck for casual rounds, but now it's pure garbage. New creatures are cheaper, bigger and strictly better.

[DrJones]

The new crusade is worse in two-headed giant, and great sable stag cannot be regenerated with elephant graveyard. Okay, they're strictly better most of time, but that's something that already happened in alpha with Roc of Kher Ridges and Hill Giant. There are also strictly worse versions printed, like the 3/2 drake being strictly worse than Phantom Monster.

They seem to be making better versions of weak cards and worse versions of good cards. They also are making worse versions of unplayable chaff, because I can't understand why the spoiled Regenerate costs 1G when Death Ward was 15th pick and costed less. I hope there's a mistake somewhere.

About Blue-green madness, here's a true story: A friend was playing the classic decklist (netdeck) and was frustrated because he lost so much. I took a look at it and told him his deck was horrible because he had too many draw spells and too few punch, and thus put no pressure on the opponent. I replaced some draw spells from his deck for bonesplitter (the best replacement he had) and started beating the casual decks he had no chance fighting, like affinity. On the first game, I even won solely because I topdecked a bonesplitter! After the show, he wasn't conviced yet, so he kept playing his list unmodified and kept losing horribly.

[from Cairo]

Here's a perfect example of how power level creeps up:

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/mr/350.jpghttp://magiccards.info/scans/en/lw/28.jpg

Not only costs Knight half the mana in 1 color, it also has First Strike. That's no power creep, that's a huge power boost!

... Or you could compare it to something that was maybe playable at one point.

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/be/229.jpg

Knight of Meadowgrain is still better than White Knight, but it's much closer in power level than it is to Zebra Unicorn. Since the beginning of Magic there have been unplayable cards, or vastly underpowered cards, using them as grounds for comparison is pointless cause with or without Knight of Meadowgrain, no one would run Zebra Unicorn.

[beastman]

Another thing they're doing is printing all the new lords, the elvish one especially. that should pul LOL elf survival over the top.

[TheAardvark]

The replacement for Goblin King is pretty nutty also...

Goblin Chieftain
RR1
Haste
Other Goblin creatures you control get +1/+1 and have Haste.
2/2

[ELD]

Zebra Unicorn triggers life gain on all damage it deals, not just crappy combat damage. He's clearly a combo engine, and with a fearsome worst case scenario of mauling your opponent with the combat step. The play is to ride that Unicorn with Yawgmoth's Bargain, Mind Over Matter and Hermetic Study FTW!!! You can even add Darksteel Colossus to go INFINITE!

Seriously though, M10 looks good. It's creating buzz, and I suspect the rules changes will be overshadowed by the fact that we have a fun base set for a change. I'm not worried about creatures getting too good. After all, in Legacy the bar is very high, and I'd be happy to steal better creatures with Sower and Shackles :D

[Mordel]

They are beginning to make the game all about straight up big creatures/impressive armies in combat for the big constructed formats; a particularly visible powercreep is a logical step for a base set that is removing some of the trickiness from combat and emphasizing the creatures fighting, rather than the mage that is sending them into combat.

I don't want to create the impression that I saw anthem being reprinted as a white bad moon(logical come to think of it) and stuff, but when you take things into consideration, it does make sense. I'll wager that the new "average" for a creature will probably have something like three toughness, since the new shock is a lightning bolt.

[Skeggi]

Zebra Unicorn triggers life gain on all damage it deals, not just crappy combat damage. He's clearly a combo engine, and with a fearsome worst case scenario of mauling your opponent with the combat step. The play is to ride that Unicorn with Yawgmoth's Bargain, Mind Over Matter and Hermetic Study FTW!!! You can even add Darksteel Colossus to go INFINITE!
Except that it has been errata'd to Lifelink...

502.68. Lifelink
502.68a Lifelink is a triggered ability. "Lifelink" means "Whenever this permanent deals damage, you gain that much life."
502.68b If a permanent has multiple instances of lifelink, each triggers separately.
Where does it say combat?

Just a minor nitpick... because no-one cares :wink:

[TheAardvark]

And it will be losing the keyword "lifelink" and retain the triggered ability wording of the ability.

An even more minor nitpick.

[ParkerLewis]

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/dk/90.jpghttp://magiccards.info/scans/en/4e/298.jpg

OMGPOWERCREEP

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/an/58.jpghttp://www.cti.ecp.fr/~picciottf/M10_PR.jpg

OMGPOWERCREEPAGAIN!!!!111!!!1!

[Getsickanddie]

OMGPOWERCREEP

Savannah Lions were printed before Squire.

[ParkerLewis]

Savannah Lions were printed before Squire.

FACEPALM.

Should I explicitly stress this was part of the point, despite the Lions seeming newer (4th edition ones) ?

[Getsickanddie]

FACEPALM.

Should I explicitly stress this was part of the point, despite the Lions seeming newer (4th edition ones) ?

I guess I missed your point because either you hadn't added the second example in the post or it didn't load in my browser. Also, I haven't heard anyone cry power creep over the functional reprinting of Savannah Lions.

[pi4meterftw]

If you assume wizards "randomly" (Or perhaps truly randomly, but nothing is truly random other than quantum mechanics so it'd be a terrible assumption.) prints cards within a range of power levels where the probability distribution/probability mass function (if power levels are discrete) is nonzero for all power levels, then power creep naturally happens, under any reasonable statistical model. I don't see what the problem is. They could only prevent it by ridiculously lowering the power level every set to the point that the only possible powerful cards would actually be bounded every set. Then you can expect type two to be a format where cards that are at the butt end of the jokes in this thread will actually be played.

On the other hand, even if you don't assume Wizards is "random" (which they do sometimes seem to be with respect just to power level) what's so bad about power creep? It makes people play new cards so that if they screw up with tarmogoyf, then their mistake doesn't last forever even if they don't ban things. They just print enough new powerful cards to wash it away. This only sounds bad because some people want to play old cards, but this game should, in my view, be one that continuously evolves.

[Skeggi]

Also, I haven't heard anyone cry power creep over the functional reprinting of Savannah Lions.
Actually, the new card is slightly better: it works in a Soldier-tribe deck. Whereas Cat-tribal is alot less worthwhile ;)

[ParkerLewis]

I guess I missed your point because either you hadn't added the second example in the post or it didn't load in my browser. Also, I haven't heard anyone cry power creep over the functional reprinting of Savannah Lions.

*facepalms again


Since the beginning of Magic there have been unplayable cards, or vastly underpowered cards, using them as grounds for comparison is pointless cause with or without Knight of Meadowgrain, no one would run Zebra Unicorn.

[DragoFireheart]

A better comparison for power creep instead of squire and lions would have been Grizzly Bear and Tarmogoyf.

[DrJones]

But you must take into account that back then there were lots of mana acceleration and card draw and now Standard doesn't have it. Hypnotic Specter was banned from Extended because it was ridiculous when played on the first turn, but it's not as good now without ritual. That's not due to power creep, but because it's a different environment.

Cards no one played can be pushed further because they are not power creep. What they are doing is reducing statistic variance, that is, making the worse cards better and the better cards worse. There's no wrath of god in the set, and while I was hoping to see a Balance reprint at 2WW or 3WW, instead we got a 3WWW card that is too slow to be playable anywhere.

EDIT: An unfortunate side-effect of removing mana acceleration is that made land destruction too good, so that may have been the ultimate cause on the death of land destruction.

[Bardo]

I don't believe there's ever been a time when their R&D team had a better quality assurance process. Tarmogoyfs may fall through the crack on occassion, but those are the exception. Point is, they know what they're doing.

If you go back and look through spoilers for the Dark, Fallen Empires, Legend (oh my god, Legends), power level was low with very rare exception (Mana Drain). The cards just aren't playable. So, if you see noticeable power creep over worthless, unplayable crap; it's because those cards are worthless, unplayable crap (Camel, Squire, etc.). Nostalgia make us remember these sets fondly (and there are thing to like about them).

Also, power goes up and down over time and that's done on purpose. Contrast Kamigawa with Mirrodin block, for instance.

The real test: is the game still fun?

Personally, I think M10 looks awesome. The creatures are quality and interesting. It looks powerful too, but that isn't a bad thing, unless they make just one thing too powerful and everything else "good" can only play second fiddle.

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

The real test: is the game still fun?

Personally, I think M10 looks awesome. The creatures are quality and interesting. It looks powerful too, but that isn't a bad thing, unless they make just one thing too powerful and everything else "good" can only play second fiddle.

I second this, it looks limited, and by extension Standard are going to have a lot of fun here. And yet, as has been discussed elsewhere, there's little to nothing in this set powerful enough to get into any eternal formats. I think its much less power creep and much more that this core set has less drek bogging it down than we've seen in a long while.

[JeroenC]

A better comparison for power creep instead of squire and lions would have been Grizzly Bear and Tarmogoyf.

Only, as I've said before: WotC has admitted that Goyf was a mistake. It's not valid in this discussion.

[freakish777]

Dear MtGTheSource Community, please petition Wizards to stop making better cards for us to play with, I'm sick of my Fogs decreasing in value:

http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardscans/MAGALL/undergrowth.jpghttp://sales.starcitygames.com/cardscans/MAGCOK/ethereal_haze.jpg

I mean who would ever want to "Kicker" their spell or splice onto it?

[Amon Amarth]

I don't believe there's ever been a time when their R&D team had a better quality assurance process. Tarmogoyfs may fall through the crack on occassion, but those are the exception. Point is, they know what they're doing.

QFT.

I can literally count the number of 'mistakes' that R&D has printed on one hand over the last 5 years. And only 1 of them, Skullclamp, has been broken almost everywhere. That's even understandable because Equipment was still a very new card type that they didn't know how to balance too well. Tarmogoyf is incredible in Legacy but it was only solid in Standard. It's not like Tarmogoyf is a Death Knight... oops wrong forum. :P

Edit: About the only real issue with Power Creep I have is with their current philosophy with burn spells. If Lightning Bolt is the Standard then is there going to be more one mana three damage burn spells? Is Bolt the top of the curve? What's going on here. It's not even the issue of killing creatures with burn but killing players that I'm worried about. They merely made burn as good as the current ramped up creatures they pump out all the time. Burning people out during their EOT and then untapping and unloading more into their face seems insane if you got a fistful of bolt and bolt clones. It's not that scary if you're throwing three mana Urza Rages at people though.

[DragoFireheart]

Only, as I've said before: WotC has admitted that Goyf was a mistake. It's not valid in this discussion.


I'm curious about the quote you got this from. Links?


Also, there is also Kavu Predator instead.

[Bardo]

It was in one of Turian's (and/or Rosewater's) interviews on The Magic Show. For a while, Garruk was in Goyf's slot, but they couldn't make the planeswalker rules work/balanced in the time they had to hand the set off to <<whoever Development gives it to>> so they put Goyf back in Future Sight at the last minute, didn't do enough testing with him, and erred a bit on too-powerful because his reminder text was cool (hinting at Garruk that he was filling in for).

Something like that.

[JeroenC]

Something like that. I heard they tested him for only a short time at 1GG but found him too weak and just decided to shave G off the cost. To my great regret, the card would've probably been of a better power level at GG or 1GG. Meh.

Thanks for jumping in though, Bardo, cause I know I read it somewhere- just wouldn't know where to find it.

Edit: and yeah, you're right, Kavu Predator > Grizzly Bears. But how often does someone play Grizzly Bears? Even Kavu Predator is only worthwhile in certain decks.

[DrJones]

Edit: and yeah, you're right, Kavu Predator > Grizzly Bears. But how often does someone play Grizzly Bears? Even Kavu Predator is only worthwhile in certain decks.But those decks are the best ever. :cool:

[Dan Turner]

Power Creep=Making money on legacy players

if there was o power creep then we would have no reason to buy newer cards for the decks we run and legacy as a format would become stale.

[m03]

If you go back and look through spoilers for the Dark, Fallen Empires, Legend (oh my god, Legends), power level was low with very rare exception (Mana Drain). The cards just aren't playable. So, if you see noticeable power creep over worthless, unplayable crap; it's because those cards are worth and unplayable crap (Camel, Squire, etc.). Nostalgia make us remember these sets fondly (and there are thing to like about them).

Things were different at the time, due to a smaller cardpool. Legends, as an example, had a ton of thing that were considered strong at the time, and saw significant play. Off the top of my head, chase cards and prices that I remember, circa late-1994:

Carrion Ants: $12 - $15
Killer Bees: $8 - $10
Whirling Dervish: $6 - $10
Land's Edge: $8 - $10
Moat: $20+
The Abyss: $20
Chains of Mephistopheles: $18
Mirror Universe: $20
Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale: $5 - $8, IIRC
Mana Drain: $don't remember
Chain Lightning: $2
Falling Star: $2 - $3

I'm sure there were others.

The Dark was a smaller set, but still had cards that people were after, like Maze of Ith, Ball Lightning, Amnesia, Preacher (which was great if you couldn't afford Old Man of the Sea).

Fallen Empires was a disappointment to everyone. The good cards turned out to be commons, which was nice.

[Bardo]

That's fair enough. Going through the Legends card-list, it's better than I remember. Still, not so good.

[Arctic_Slicer]

To understand this question you have to an understanding of power level in the beginning and how the game has evolved since then.

In the early days of magic "subpar" creatures such as Iron-Claw Orcs made their way into to tournament decks because they were they were among the best creatures available at the time. Due to relative weakness of creatures many non-creature spells were "too powerful" and failed to see reprint; being replaced with similar cards that were considerably weaker to bring non-creature spells more inline with the power level of creature spells.

Over the years they realized that creatures could be more powerful than they currently were and started making better creature cards. However during much as this time non-creature spells weren't really getting any better so eventually we came to a point where creature spells were getting too good versus non-creature spells prompting the printing of better non-creature spells to bring them once again more in balance with creature spells. This is why we have seen the printing of cards such as Path to Exile and the reprinting of Lightning Bolt. Better creatures require better spells to counteract those creatures.

I don't think we really have power creep but more like a return to game's originally intended power level. Only this time there is a lot more balance between colors and between spell types.

Ever since Mark Rosewater was head designer, starting with Saviors of Kamigawa, the only "mistake" that has seen print is Tarmogoyf and that was partially to blame on a scheduling error that cut the development time for Future Sight. He has great track record and when it comes to game balance he has done an exceptional job.

[Bardo]

Artcic_Slicer - Yeah, I agree with everything you said. R&D has learned that it's okay for creatures to get better over time, since they're the heart of the game (maybe not eternal MtG, but we're a corner in the bigger universe of the game). Consequently, creature removal has to get better to keep things in balance (Bolt, Path).

The only place where I think you're wrong is your last paragraph. Design's job (Rosewater, etc.) is to come up with the ideas and new cards (in this case, a Lhurgoyf-type creature that powers up by card type and referencing the upcoming Planeswalkers and Tribal cards in Lorwyn). Development sets costs and adjusts for balance and power (costing it as a */*+1 for 1G, instead of */* or GG or 1GG). So if you're going to "blame" R&D for Tarmogoyf, it would be Development, not Design.

[Amon Amarth]

...it would be on the Devin Low (since laid off) side of thing, not Design.

Why exactly was he laid off/quit/fired/whatever? Did it have anything to do with that whole Gleemax situation?

[Bardo]

My understanding is that Hasbro/WotC was forced to cut costs because of the recession (i.e. less $$ spent on games) and laid some people off. Buehler and others took the fall on the Gleemax thing. (http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/13847.html) I started a thread about it back in the winter. It should be around somewhere.

Or he was fired. Dunno. According to his LinkedIn page (http://www.linkedin.com/pub/devin-low/1/89/b65), it's all in the past.

[Finn]

This is why we have seen the printing of cards such as Path to Exile and the reprinting of Lightning Bolt. Better creatures require better spells to counteract those creatures.

I don't think we really have power creep but more like a return to game's originally intended power level. Only this time there is a lot more balance between colors and between spell types.This is what I am talking about. I think that there is a conscious effort to reset the bar of acceptable.

I imagine that the initial response of limiting the power of noncreature effects in relation to the creatures of the same time has finally run its course in the eyes of WOTC. Perhaps this new approach is to return the overpowered stuff to where it was (blue effects notably excluded) at the beginning. And then bring the creatures and related effects up to that level.

[TheAardvark]

Another way to look at it is an attempt to reset and give the colors more parity.

I mean, people have bitched about blue being "nerfed" pretty much since Kamigawa or so, and during each cycle of Standard since then, the best deck (or more than one of the best decks) has been heavy blue at least once. Blue, while "weaker" overall compared to its heyday, was still getting great cards (Gifts, Remand, Teachings, Cryptic, etc.) and was often still dominating the tournament scene in one way or another.

Now, however, they seem to be more serious about readjusting the power level of all of the colors, and blue is most definitely M10's weakest color. White has been pretty amped up, and is clearly the best color in the format post-M10, and that even includes the loss of Wrath (which, admittedly, wasn't played much outside of Lark decks). I can't see any reason(s) why mono white Kithkin is not the default best deck post-rotation, by a good margin, because of the power level swings they're doing within the colors.

I had another point with all of this, but I guess I lost it. Basically, I feel that M10 is the starting point for their internal quest to reevaluate and restructure the power levels of the colors as a whole. Now if a color falls behind, maybe it won't take 5 years for it to return to being good.

[mercenarybdu]

they are revisiting the power creep of from previous era for the next generation to enjoy. If we progress too rapidly without checking back on the past, then what was the point in the game anyways?

We would lose part of that part of the game forever. Some of the stuff has to be for starters and casual people. That is why some of the power creep has to be at the basic level.

The very reason why M10 is set at a Core product rather than an expert level set.

I still see people buy core product after so many years. Never a dull moment, in addition to the new limited edition product.

[beastman]

They would have had to bring back power cards for all the sets. There were :u::u: Counterspells at that time, along with great card draw engines. they also packed things like wasteland, hymn, and sinkhole. It was a very, very different format. This is wizards stripping blue control down again. Along with giving other colors more power, they are taking one of the best control cards away in wrath.

[Jak]

I don't think it is too bad for the game. It is only creatures that are getting stronger (most decks now hardly have any old bordered creatures :frown: ) so most decks function the same. Do I enjoy not being able to play with my FtKs, Morphlings, Masticores, ect? No. Those creatures have a lot of history and getting replaced by newer cards sucks but in the end, the game is still fun and there is a little more power.

[Mantis]

The power creep isn't bad for Legacy, it means we get to play with different cards every now and then. It keeps the format from stagnating which is a very good thing, see what happened to Vintage.

White receiving better cards is also good for Legacy, I hope this trend continues as white is by far the least played color in Legacy afaik.

[Mayk0l]

I don't mind the power creep. It forces us to consider, test and play new cards and keeps the game fresh. Air Elemental is pretty dull, but Mistbind Clique puts a smile to my face.

[Observer]

Baneslayer Angel 3WW
Creature —Angel M
Flying, first strike, lifelink, protection from Demons and from Dragons
Some angels protect the meek and innocent. Others seek out and smite evil wherever it lurks.
5/5

Has just been confirmed:
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/46

I saw the discussion, that this was "obviously" not how they would print it and agreed. My gut reaction was really bad when I saw this.

Two aspects:

-power creep
-mythic rares potentially becoming chase rares (> higher prices)

[JeroenC]

Forsythe on Twitter:

mtgaaronBaneslayer Angel is real. My take on "powercreep": There is an overall "best" card at each mana cost, and sometimes it is in the latest set.

[Skeggi]

mtgaaron Baneslayer Angel is real. My take on "powercreep": There is an overall "best" card at each mana cost, and often it is in the latest set.

Fixed that for him.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Am I the only one who thinks that Baneslyer Angel is just as good as Battlegrace Angel?

[TheAardvark]

Am I the only one who thinks that Baneslyer Angel is just as good as Battlegrace Angel?

I'm pretty sure everyone else thinks it's better than Battlegrace, so yeah, probably.