thunder-hold

[Shanghi Knights]

i couldn't find anything on threshold decks with red in them so i decided to post my deck list and see what others thought.

you will probably recognize it as red green blue threshold running lighting bolt and the such

creatures (15)
4 nimble mongoose
4 tarmogoyf
3 Fledgling Dragon
3 sakura tribe elders
1 bloodfire kavu

instant (21)
4 force of will
4 lighting bolt
3 counter spell
3 cunning wish
3 daze
2 brainstorm
2 worldly tutor

sorcery (4)
4 ponder

artifact (3)
3 lotus petal

land (17)
3 polluted delta
3 wooded foothills
3 tropical island
3 volcanic island
2 island
1 forest
1 mountain

sideboard i haven't established fully yet but i prefer to run stuff like pact of the titan for an emergency blocker or fireblast for that last 4 damage, or a misdirection. i might steal and idea from dragon stompy and put sulfer elementals in for the landstill decks that go for decree and elseph.

i put in lotus pedal to help speed up the mana base for the dragon and kavu. in addition this is also the purpose of the tribe elders. plus both are great for ramping up tarmogoyf very early in the game protecting him from burn and giving him the edge on stompy decks with stuff like wild nacatl.

tribe elder also seemed great in the chump blocker catagory but with the rules changing shortly i'm not so sure if his effectiveness is going to stay consistant for the deck.

the kavu i main bored because i often run into goblins and its pretty strong against ichorid bridge. because of its 4 mana cost it usually puts me into threshold by the time i get it out and spares my nimble mongooses. it has killed off sower of temptation allowing me to get any stolen dragons or goyfs back. occasionally kills the dragon though because my opponent doesn't have threshold leaving at a 2/2 state.

dragon i like because its a flying 2 banger without hold and most people seem to ignore it when its like that. they seem to focus on goyf and just let the dragon go until u hit threshold. but situations like that aren't very common. the best part of him hes a 5/5 late game threat that can draw attention away from other creatures like mongoose.

as i stated at the top, i'm looking for ideas to improve this deck.

[beastman]

I'm not sure what the random numbers are for, but kavu shouldnt be in there. There are much more tempo based cards that haven't seen play in awhile, such as burning tree shaman. That guy has the potential to be amazing, and IMO he is criminally under used.

[TOGITwill]

Yeah, especially in a Counter-Top heavy environment. Burning Tree Shaman makes the Sensei's Divining Top and the Baby Jesus cry.

[Aggro_zombies]

i couldn't find anything on threshold decks with red in them so i decided to post my deck list and see what others thought.
You didn't look very hard.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13715
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7051



creatures (15)
4 nimble mongoose
4 tarmogoyf
3 Fledgling Dragon
3 sakura tribe elders
1 bloodfire kavu

instant (21)
4 force of will
4 lighting bolt
3 counter spell
3 cunning wish
3 daze
2 brainstorm
2 worldly tutor

sorcery (4)
4 ponder

artifact (3)
3 lotus petal

land (17)
3 polluted delta
3 wooded foothills
3 tropical island
3 volcanic island
2 island
1 forest
1 mountain
This list is godawful. You took a perfectly reasonable Threshold build and added all kinds of terrible cards to it to make it generally shitastic while completely losing sight of the theory behind the different Threshold designs. Allow me to elaborate:

If you want to play control with Threshold, you run white or black. That is because these colors have superior removal and card draw, respectively. White has Swords and Path to Exile, neither of which care about a creature's size, and black has Dark Confidant, which is an absolute beast if allowed to live more than a few turns. White also has Gaddock Teeg and Meddling Mage, which are fine control options. Finally, control in Threshold always involves running the Counter-Top combo.

If you want to play Tempo Threshold, you run red. Burn is generally bad at killing creatures in Legacy (being unable to remove Tarmogoyf, Dreadnought, Tombstalker, and a host of other finisher-type creatures), but it's great for killing opponents who are low on life. Tempo Threshold is a very aggressive deck that attacks the opponent's resources and early spells while trying to ride a few large, undercosted creatures to victory. If it wins, it does so very quickly through a combination of beats and burn spells to the dome.

What you have is the bastard child of the control and tempo philosophies. Your deck wants to play control due to having cards like Cunning Wish, Worldly Tutor, and Counterspell, but it's in the wrong colors to do so (because burn is so terrible at controlling creatures in this format). Not only that, many of the cards you're using for control purposes work in decks like Landstill but won't work here due to your lower land count. There's also the fact that your deck's spells aren't terribly synergistic: Daze and your control cards don't play together very well, especially not in a deck with only 17 lands. Finally, your creature base vaguely resembles the tempo model, but you have all these additional terrible guys in there (Dragon, Tribe-Elder, and...Kavu? Kavu? Seriously?) and you don't run Stifle or other tempo cards.


i put in lotus pedal to help speed up the mana base for the dragon and kavu. in addition this is also the purpose of the tribe elders. plus both are great for ramping up tarmogoyf very early in the game protecting him from burn and giving him the edge on stompy decks with stuff like wild nacatl.
There is no such card as Lotus Pedal.

Lotus Petal, on the other hand, is a terrible card in any deck other than Tendrils combo. A one-shot mana effect is fucking awful after about turn two or three, and the fact that you're adding it solely to support your shitty high-end creatures means you should either (a) be running more lands, or (b) not be running four-mana guys.


the kavu i main bored because i often run into goblins and its pretty strong against ichorid bridge. because of its 4 mana cost it usually puts me into threshold by the time i get it out and spares my nimble mongooses. it has killed off sower of temptation allowing me to get any stolen dragons or goyfs back. occasionally kills the dragon though because my opponent doesn't have threshold leaving at a 2/2 state.
This is...what the fuck are you saying? Your opponent has Threshold...what? Also, it's probably not a good idea to go around boring creatures that can blow up and kill you.

Also, Pyroclasm, Volcanic Fallout, and Firespout all do the same things as this card, but they don't cost four mana to play on top of an additional mana to activate, and they're inanimate spells so they can't be bored.


dragon i like because its a flying 2 banger without hold and most people seem to ignore it when its like that. they seem to focus on goyf and just let the dragon go until u hit threshold. but situations like that aren't very common. the best part of him hes a 5/5 late game threat that can draw attention away from other creatures like mongoose.
Dragon hasn't been playable in years, but let's ignore that for now.

The "but situations like that aren't very common" leads me to believe that your Dragon doesn't live to Threshold very often. This is as it should be, because anyone who would let that happen is either removal-light or stupid. 5/5 flying creatures are dangerous, but not when they start out as 2/2 guys, and not when they cost four mana in a deck with 17 lands and three Pedaling Lotuses.

If you want evasive beaters, Vendillion Clique has generally been accepted as being a good option due to the quasi-discard effect, the three mana cost, and the flash ability.


as i stated at the top, i'm looking for ideas to improve this deck.
Go to www.deckcheck.net, find a recent red Threshold list you like, and copy it card for card. Alternately, you can use the handy "Search" function and do a search in the Tournament Results subforum for "red Thresh" or "UGR Thresh," both of which will give you winning lists from recent events.

[Nihil Credo]

Locked. A primer on Tempo Thresh is soon to come, courtesy of Shugyosha. When it does, read it.