ELEMENTAL dear WATSON

[zabuza]

This is an elemental deck that i´ve developed that i think is good enough to be played with medium-high success.

The list is the following:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of traitors
4 Primal beyond
4 city of brass
4 Darigaaz´s Caldera
4 Mox diamond
4 lotus petal

4 Smokebraider
4 Spawnwrithe
4 Incandescent Soulstoke
4 Shriekmaw
4 Mulldrifter
4 Briarhorn
4 Nova Chaser
4 Sword of light and Shadow


The deck has lot of sinergy itself. We have lot of broken beginings with Spawnwrithe or incandescent and we can evoke a lot of dudes allowing us to gain lot of advantage. Some interesting playings are the following:

with a city on play tap city -->2 colorless, play darigaaz, return city to your hand (instead of sacrificing ;) ) and with 3 mana you can play all cards in the deck ;).

Evoke a dude, hit with any dude equiped wit sword anr return the evoked again for later re-use.

Throw any of the elementals to the face of the oppoenent with soulstoke (with a +1/+1 ) gaining interesting habilities in the process or raw power (nova chaser 11/3 haste trample).

The deck has:

Creature removal--> Shriekmaw
Card advantage --> Mulldrifter
Pump critters --> Briarhorn.
Play hasted, uncountereable dudes --> Soulstoke
Raw power --> Nova chaser
Win if not killed now--> Spawnwrithe.
Smokebraid --> needed to play all our great elementals without evoking them. Provides consistency and acceleration.

Beside of that, soulstoke gives +1/+1 to writhe so a 3/3 trample that copies itself wit any attack i think is brutal.

Deck is fast enough with moxes, petals and dual lands.

Sideboard is not developed yet. I think we can use offalsnout (ichorid, loam, ...), ingot chewer (artifacts), chalice of the void (burn,elves,combo...) and krosan grip(anything) but i think we can also play lot of other things.

Circle of protection red could be needed because burn doesn´t seem a very good match-up, but i need testing the deckk against it.

Any idea?.

[zabuza]

NObody can help me to improve the deck?? please any thought or idea will be well receipt.

[purlqg]

Hi Zabuza

I like your deck, though I see some mayor faults. First of all your mana base seems wrong, Lotus Petal is really bad it only works in combo decks where you need the mana just now and not later, it seems like you really could use your mana later though. Another thing is that you minimum needs 24 lands to support Mox Diamond, I realise your deck has a low curve but 24 is still to low.

This deck could go in a stompy direction and play lock down pieces, have you thought about adding Chalice of the Void?!

Another card that might fit this deck could be Mirror Entity? Dunno if the deck needs another big beater then the Chaser just throwing it out there.

[zabuza]

You are right about lotus petal but i want to play in the first turn Spawnwrithe or soulstoke. Dragon stompy or elephant stompy uses ESG or SSG. BEcause we need R or G i´ve opted to use petal.

I never have had problems with discarding lands to moxes. I think 20 is enough. You are right on paper, but playing the deck, 20 seems enough (because we play smokebraid too that is a superb mana generator). Despite of that, i would like to use at least two lands more, but i don´t know what to remove for them.

Chalice of the void is on Sideboard. It´s a stapl,e but maindeck there isn´t room for it. I use x4 chalice on sideboard to use it against burn, zoo, elves and so on.

Side is something like:
4 x chalice
4 x powder keg
4 x Krosan grip
3 x offalsnout

Chaser is brutal. It´s like two ball lightning in one card. Is a finisher. I would love using mirror entity so i´ve added one of them and removed one sword maindeck.

Lot of thanks for your answer. Sincerely lot of thanks. Any more ideas?

[purlqg]

Well i'll try to test it. It's to bad the deck just loses game 1 to combo. Chalice would also help you to combat stuff like bolt, swords and path. All cards that kill some of your main threats.
I was thinking about smokebraider is it good enough? It just seems like it dies to every form of removal. And your deck already plays a huge amount of acceleration in the form of 2 mana lands and mox.

If you could fit the chalices main then you make room for 4 more anti cards on the board. Something like Trinisphere or Thorn of Amethyst. It would probably really improve the combo match up.

I would suggest removing either Smokebraider or Briarhorn they seem weakest.

With Chalice you would have alot of good turn one plays.
Tomb/Traitor + Mox = Spawnwrithe
Tomb/Traitor = Chalice
Tomb/Traitor + Mox = Soulstoke

[Dark_Cynic87]

Well i'll try to test it. It's to bad the deck just loses game 1 to combo.

I don't think this is a fair way to judge a list. Tons of stuff "just loses" game one to combo.

The thing I would worry about is getting the creature you are targetting with your Nova Chaser getting swords'ed and Chaser fizzling leaving you 2-for-1'ed and out of a finisher and a blocker. That's the worst part of Champion, and IMO is also the reason the deck will never be a DTB. It's just too easy to ruin your Chasers.

Pce,

--DC

[Aggro_zombies]

I don't think this is a fair way to judge a list. Tons of stuff "just loses" game one to combo.

The thing I would worry about is getting the creature you are targetting with your Nova Chaser getting swords'ed and Chaser fizzling leaving you 2-for-1'ed and out of a finisher and a blocker. That's the worst part of Champion, and IMO is also the reason the deck will never be a DTB. It's just too easy to ruin your Chasers.

Pce,

--DC
The champion ability doesn't target. It just requires that remove another Elemental from the game when it comes into play.

[zabuza]

Perhaps could be better changing nova chaser for mirror entity?

I like nova because you can always "throw it" with soulstoke making at least 7-8-10 damage (because trample) and ususally you have a smoke braider to feed the champion ability. The good point of nova is trample with a great power so with 4 mana And a soulstoke you can can beat for 14 trampling. The worst thing about nova is championing, but remeber, if you champion a mulldrifter you´ll draw when mulldrifter comes into play again!!!. The same for shriekmaw and briarhorn. BEcause this little sinergy is because i like nova too.

Smokebraid is a solid mana genrator. Is like if you play elves and don´t play lalnowar because is 1/1. Smokebraid Give us 2 MANA OF ANY COLOR. This is basic sometimes and in the worst scenario opponent is going to use a removal that will not be used against spawnwrithe, nova or soulstoke. I like this card because bad hands (with only a petal and a land or mos and two lands (with none of them giving two mana) become an acceptable hand. In dragon stompy these hands are horrible but here you can cast smokebraid to have 4 mana on second turn.

I´ve changed 4 city of brass for 4 gems´tome mine. Because we are using caldera, now we can recover mine with only one counter or city of traitors. This change makes me less suicide and taking lot of less damage too.

i´m thinking on including mutavault here in oorder to have an uncountereable creatrure that beats for 3 with soulstoke and so, the only problem is that is a colorless land and we had 8 of them now. What do you think about this idea.

There isn´t lot of combo in my metagame because counterbalance is everywhere. Because that i´ve put chalices on the side. Burn and zoo aren´t played a lot too so i think sideboarding chalices (for burn) and chalices and powder (for zoo) would be enough to win that games.

Spawnwrithe is a house. If only exist another elemental with the same quality or with awesome habilites like writhe.

Another option could be playing sulfur elemental instead of chaser but it´s only a 3/2 that kills soldiers (decree of justice :P) but with a marginal use.

Other card i like a lot is taurean mauler (is an elemental--changeling, cost 3 and grows very quickly). The bad thing about mauler is that is hasn´t trample so i´m not very sold on it too.

Please more ideas. I think the deck could be really competitive.

Thanks everybody for answering and please keep suggesting more ideas.

[Skeggi]

You are right about lotus petal but i want to play in the first turn Spawnwrithe or soulstoke. Dragon stompy or elephant stompy uses ESG or SSG. BEcause we need R or G i´ve opted to use petal.
There are a couple of reasons Dragon Stompy or Elephant Stompy use the Spirit Guides and not the Petals:

When you need that extra mana after you played a Trinisphere (or Chalice@0) Lotus Petal doesn't do any good.
The Spirit Guides are mid and late game extra creatures that can carry equipment.
Spirit Guides are pitchable to Chrome Mox.

I'd strongly suggest using Spirit Guides over Petals. Perhaps a 2/2 split, or just go for green if you treasure turn 1 Spawnwrithe. Also, Mox Diamond? Chrome Mox is way better when you run under 23 lands.

Also, it's probably better to run Primal Beyond over Darigaaz's Caldera.

[Glorfindel]

And Spirit Guides work excellent against Daze.

[zabuza]

Well, first of all thanks for answering.

About SSG And ESG i wrote before why we are not using them but i think i haven´t explained myself very well so i´m going to try it now (i´m not english native so please forgive my errors).

I tested Guides (both of them) but i doesn´t like it at all in this deck.

The reasons are the following:
1. You don´t know if you are going to draw a soulstoke or a writhe. Both of them are the things we want to play on the first turn. With guides lot of times you draw a double land and a guide of the opposite color of the first turn critter you want to play. This is an horrible situation because writhe is very good on first turn, but little worse on the following. Because we want to play our threats on first turn we need something that provides both color (G or R).
2. Guides are not elementals. You could think it is a stupid assertion, but primal beyond and smokebraider only works for elementalas so why increase the number of non elemental cards only playable in bad situations? The guides are not going to win any match by themselves for sure.
3. We are playing chalices on the side so petals are not going to be hurt by them. Sideboarding yopu can change one for the others in you wish.
4. We are not playing trinisphere at all (could be an idea for sideboard) because evoke costs increase to three, making the deck slower. Could be an option, but...
5. We are using mox diamond. ¿Why on the hell we are using mox diamond instead of chrome mox???? The answer is very simple. We are a multicolored deck. We need G(++++), R(+++++), B(++), U(++) , W(+). Diamond provides all the colors while chorme mox only provides one of them. Beside of that there are lot of hands where we draw a tomb, a city, a mox and stuff. This hands are playable because we play city or tomb, discard the other to mox and play ANY of our dudes. This isn´t possible with chrome mox.

I know you are thinking in this deck like it was dragon stompy or so. I´ve played dragon stompy, Faerie stompy and elephant Stompy for a while and this deck is slightly different, so ideas and assertions that are absolute true on those decks is not in here.

Any more ideas or thoughts?? Please keep suggesting and lot of thanks for the ideas you have provided till now.

[Skeggi]

1. You don´t know if you are going to draw a soulstoke or a writhe. Both of them are the things we want to play on the first turn. With guides lot of times you draw a double land and a guide of the opposite color of the first turn critter you want to play. This is an horrible situation because writhe is very good on first turn, but little worse on the following. Because we want to play our threats on first turn we need something that provides both color (G or R).
Valid point.


2. Guides are not elementals. You could think it is a stupid assertion, but primal beyond and smokebraider only works for elementalas so why increase the number of non elemental cards only playable in bad situations? The guides are not going to win any match by themselves for sure.
Not a valid point. Lotus Petals aren't elementals either and Sprit Guides can carry a piece of equipment which could lead you to victory.


3. We are playing chalices on the side so petals are not going to be hurt by them. Sideboarding yopu can change one for the others in you wish.
4. We are not playing trinisphere at all (could be an idea for sideboard)
because evoke costs increase to three, making the deck slower. Could be an option, but...

This only matters in the combo match-up where you may want to play Trinispheres or Chalice@0, in which case, Spirit Guides are better.

I can see this manabase go two ways: or it stays like it is and Mox Diamond will require you to run more lands. Or you start playing Chrome Mox but then you'll need to play Spirit Guides and drop the petals.

I would go for something like this perhaps:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of traitors
4 Primal beyond
4 City of Brass
2 Gemstone Mine
4 Chrome Mox
3 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Elvish Spirit Guide

3 Smokebraider
4 Spawnwrithe
4 Incandescent Soulstoke
3 Shriekmaw
4 Mulldrifter
2 Briarhorn
2 Nova Chaser
1 Force of Savagery (not sure, but looks like fun :wink:)
2 Wispmare

3 Sword of light and Shadow
4 Trinisphere

Cards that may be in your sideboard could be:

Crib Swap
Wispmare
Chalice of The Void
Choke/Eyes of the Wisent/City of Solitude
Tormod's Crypt/Relic of Progenitus
Firespout
Krosan Grip

[zabuza]

I thought on Force of Savagery tooo. It looks very cool to me but there is a problem with it. It´s only playable if you have soulstoke into play and even then the 1 defense is bad enough to be killed by fanatic ;). Because of that i don´t play it.

Wispmares were another sideboard option (instead of krosan grip i thought on 3 ingot and 3 wipmares, but i was not very sold on it because there aren´t lot of enchantments i´m afraid of (Moat and humility are the two chosen ones but not sure yet). Do you think they are neccessary maindeck?? and chewers?? Really?

You are right about Guides can lead an equipment to the victory. If only exists a guide that could generate R or G i´ll never doubt about playing it instead of petals but if you play a couple of hands with the deck you realize that when you draw a SSG and Spawnrithe you´ll be hoping to kill that fucking ape. Because of that i´ve though on petals. They doesn´t carry swords but well, is the best thing we can play for now.

What do you think about playing mutavaults?? They are elemental lands that increases the number of lands in the deck (to mox diamond) while can carry a sword after a cleaning table effect. They can be converted with somebraid and equipped for only one more mana.

I´m going to decrease the number of nova to 2-3 as you suggested. What about playing mirror entity there?

Another creature i´ve thought a lot to be played here is Shapesharer. Coul it be useful here??

[Skeggi]

Shapesharer seems like crap. Mirror Entity could be very good with Spawnwrithe, perhaps try 3 instead of the 2 Wispmare and 1 Force of Savagery.

Mutavaults are indeed viable if you run Mox Diamonds. But ofcourse they're more colorless mana sources. That sucks bad in a 5c deck.

[zabuza]

Yes, the bad part of mutavaults is that they are colorless mana, but you know i can discard them if needed while in later game is another beater. Perhaps using a couple of them?

Shapesharer could be playable to morph him into goyf, and so on but i don´t think is enough good too.

What about Mauler? Is playable? Do you like him? It could be another first turn drop to take care about. Decks playing lot of spells must answer him fastly. The only wrong thing is that it hasn´t trample. It could be solved by adding Skarrg, the Rage Pits but i think is marginal because is another colorless land. Altough it requires the right colors (R-G) i think is slow and not playable, but is another idea to pump mauler, etc and give them trample. Coud it work well? I don´t know.

The deck could be something like:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of traitors
4 Primal beyond
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Darigaaz´s caldera
2 mutavault
-------22 lands---

4 Mox Diamond
2 lotus petal
---6 Accelerators---

4 Smokebraider
4 Spawnwrithe
4 Incandescent Soulstoke
4 Shriekmaw
4 Mulldrifter
4 Briarhorn
2 Taurean mauler
2 Mirror entity
2 Nova chaser

3 Sword of light and Shadow

Cards that may be in sideboard could be:

Crib Swap
Wispmare
Chalice of The Void
Choke/Eyes of the Wisent/City of Solitude
Tormod's Crypt/Relic of Progenitus
Firespout
Krosan Grip
ingot chewer
Ashling the pilgrim/the estinguisher ----- ¿Playable?

Ideas, thoughts?

[zabuza]

Hey, i´ve discovered "Soulbright Flamekin". It provides TRAMPLE to our creatures by spending 2 (city or tomb or smokebraid, can provide us plenty of red mana 6-->8) and can make taurean Mauler a hoser machine. I´m discovering this deck has lot of power!!!!! I´m going to try using this guy into the deck because all our dudes now have evasion!!!

Only think about it. We have a smokebraid, a mirror entity, and this guy a two lands. We hare attacking at least with 2 8/8 trample guys (more lands more fun).

If only we have a mauler in play with this dude, only spending two mana, we have a flesh triturator machine.

I´m thinking on removing all nova chaser and using this guy instead. Briarhorn beating for 6 trampling,

Mmm could be useful. I´m going to try it. Any more ideas???

[keys]

What about Ancient Ziggurat as a land? It works with Evoke, too.

[Anusien]

What about cutting some of the more marginal elementals for Rage Forger and a Shaman subtheme? That's what the Block version did and Rage Forger was quite good there.

Smokebraider, Rage Forger and Soulstroke are all Elemental Shamans, so is Pyroclast Consul and Soul Snuffer (and Sunflare Shaman).

Notable Shamans: Burning-Tree Shaman, Eternal Witness, Ravnica Guildmages, Shadowmoor Hedge-Mages, Homarid Shaman, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Leaf-Crowned Elder, Loaming Shaman, Masked Admirers, (there are about 50 fifty more shamans I didn't bother to look through too).

Edit: I'm pretty sure Horde of Notions is the best reason to go Elementals. That your manabase can't support it makes me frown at the deck.

[keys]

A manabase like this would be able to support Horde, right?

4 City of Brass
4 Ancient Ziggurat
4 Primal Beyond
4 Reflecting Pool
2 Gemstone Caverns
4 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal

[MTG-Fan]

I like this idea with Ziggurats + City of Brass, and Vexing Shusher maindeck alongside some kind of a Shaman theme, as Anusien mentioned.

Vexing Shusher = too good.

[Darkenslight]

Why not change City of Brass for another 5C land, such as Undiscovered Paradise?

[Skeggi]

The idea is to drop a turn 1 Spawnwrithe or Incandescent Soulstoke. For that you need a Stompy manabase, 4 Ancient Tomb, 4 City of Traitors. City of Traitors and Undiscovered Paradise don't mix.

[zabuza]

Yeah, that´s the idea.

undiscovered doesn´t mix properly with city. Because that i´m playing caldera. I´ve found that caldera is not bada at all. It provides 3 colors and can save a city or a gemstone from being destroyed (remember you can tap for mana and after that play caldera). For now i´m happy with them.

I´ve removed nova chaser and inserted 4 taurean mauler. Is the red_spawnwrithe. It becomes big, is ugly, and with sword or with trample is a destroyer.

Anyway i´m still thinking about playing a couple of chasers but i don´t know what to remove. chaser is good because it´s a finisher and because championing drifter, shriekmaw or briarhorn you have twice the nice effect.

Thanks everybody for replying, keep your minds on so we can improve this deck a lot.

More ideas, thoughts??

[Darkenslight]

What about Thran Quarry, then? You play a lot of creatures, so the drawback souldn't be much of an issue, whereas the one on City of Brass would normally be relevant, as I understand it.

[Otter]

What about Thran Quarry, then? You play a lot of creatures, so the drawback souldn't be much of an issue, whereas the one on City of Brass would normally be relevant, as I understand it.

Thran Quarry is so risky. Lets say you keep a 2-land hand, one of which is Quarry. You play a dude, they Plow/Force/Daze it to kill Quarry and then Waste your other land -- enter scoop phase.

[zabuza]

i´ve testing the deck this afternoon against:

Standstill: I´ve lost all the matches. The deck was very land destructive (wastelands + crucible all the matches). he crushes all my lands in every match.

Soldiers:i´ve won all matches against this deck.Is a very easy match-up.

MBC:i´ve won all matches against this deck.Is a very easy match-up.

Survival:50-50. If i begin very fast i won, but if the match take much time he comboes me vary easy.

Zoo: i´ve won all matches against this deck.Is a very easy match-up.

Reanimator: i´ve lost all the matches. The deck was very fast and archangel (shroud), akroma and so makes me die very fast.


I think the v2.0 of the deck has to have the next configration.

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of traitors
4 Primal beyond
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Darigaaz´s caldera
4 mutavault
-------24 lands---

4 Mox Diamond
---4 Accelerators---

4 Smokebraider
4 Spawnwrithe
4 Incandescent Soulstoke
4 Shriekmaw
4 Briarhorn
4 Taurean mauler
4 Nova chaser
4 Flamekin Harbinger
1 ingot chewer
1 wispmare


I haven´t had any problem with color in the manabase when wastelands doesn´t appear. I think now with vaults is more stable.

I´ve increased the number of novas because tjhey steal games very easy. In oreder to improve the deck i´ve decided to use Flamekin Harbinger so we can search for nova (bucle of novas is BRUTAL, play nova, champion this guy, nova goes to grave and return dude searching for another nova), wispmare, ingot or shriekmaw if needed.

I´ve removed mulldrifter because they are unuseful lot of times and drawing 2 cards is not really definitory.

Sideboard must use relic/tormods because they are hosers to reanimator and destroys the lock crucible/wastes.

I need two things.

First of all a way to make our dudes unblockable. I´ve thought on Cover of Darkness (gives fear to every of our dudes) so Spawnrithe becomes the king of the party, and all the rest of our dudes connect.

The second thing is a way to recover all elementals from graveyard. We have lot of evoke and sacrify effects so something like oversold cemetery would be very useful. I´ve tried Sword of light and shadow but it doesn´t work well at all. It´s very expensive and is not definitory.


Please, thoughts, ideas??? Lot of thanks to everybody.

[eq.firemind]

All your dudes have some CIP effect and many of them can put themselves in grave without any help, so try out Recurring Nightmare. Your manabase supports it perfectly. Cemetery is crap - it needs to much to start working.
And I believe recurring Shriekmaws will solve blockers, so evasion is not so needed. By the way, Briarhorn + Trample = Stomp over them. That's Spawnwrithe's way.
I also recommend to use the best card supported by :2:-mana lands: Chalice of the Void and some Trinispheres in SB (for Combo, Dredge, Burn and the likes). In that case Crypt >>> Relic and by the way you need your graveyard for recursion, so no-no Relic IMHO.

[Mantis]

First of all, fix your manabase. People in this thread have been coming up with some great ideas to improve your manabase yet you still run Darigaaz's Calder, that card is just not playable, sorry.

Reveillark and Horde of Nations seem to be the two prime reasons why you would want to run elementals. Flameking Harbinger can fetch both in a pinch so you don't have to run full sets.

Also, you might want to check out Manuel Buchers T2 Elemental list, seems like some principles apply here as well.

[Anusien]

How often do you have two guys on the battlefield before casting Nova Chaser?

[zabuza]

Firs of all i must say that mana base of the deck is not optimal, i know, but trust me, caldera is not the land we want to remove there. I know all of you think that is the worst card of magic by far ;) but think with me, Caldera is a loss of tempo (we gain it with tombs and citys) but has 4 primordial uses.

1. ¿What do you prefer, destroy city of traitors because need more mana (or coloured) or obtain mana and recover the city to play it later instead of losing it.
2. The same with gemstone. You can use it two times and then recover with caldera to replay it with new three counters
3. Provides the 3 color we play in the deck (R;G;B) so is a very powerful colored land.
4 multiples usually suck so we can discard them with mox ;)

I need to fix manabase but not removing this card. Perhaps mutavault could be unuseful. I´m thinking on replacing them with taigas (two main colors) so we can even play ancient grudge sideboard ;). I´m thinking about it but it could be the very best option.

Nightmare is not a bad idea. I´ve to test it. Is a little slow but we can play it and use when neccesary. The only problem is having to sac a critter when we want to play it (yea, with evoke cards is ok, but not always we want/have any of them to play).

Revelliark doesn´t work at all because it needs very cheap creatures to be recovered and i haven´t none of them (only harbinger). Horde could be an option but it needs a rainbow manaset to work so it could be very difficult to use its hability.I think both of them doesn´t work.

You are right about relic. Tormods would be better or perhaps offalsnout, but this guy is slow so tormods FTW.

Shriekmaws solve blockers sometimes, but not always. There were matches where tehe opponent played shroud creatures (empyreal archangel, mangoose, progenitus), black creatures(tombstalker, progenitus) or artifact creatures (manlands, dreadnough) and my shriekmaw laught at me in my hand. When the blocker is little we can go for the briarhorn route, but when is big we can only hope to draw a nova to clean the way (except genitus and dreadnough) but it was funny because tw matches against reanimator i played a nova killing his Inkwell Leviathan twice ;) ).

Chalices are on the side but perhaps could be maindecked.

How is the list you are proposing me (Manuel buchers?????????).

The answer of the last question is easy: Lot of times. Think that writhes put lot of copies, smokebraid is always very fast, soulstoke or taurean mauler always are fasr¡te enough too and now we have harbinger too to be championed and combo out. There aren´t problems with championing. I thinking on including another big champion dude (1x or 2 x if i find a good contender for that slots).

Lot of thanks to everybody. Please keep suggesting more ideas.

[Mantis]

I'd build my deck around Reveillark, but that's just me I guess.

Maindeck:

Artifacts
1 Springleaf Drum

Creatures
4 Bloom Tender
3 Cloudthresher
4 Flamekin Harbinger
1 Fulminator Mage
4 Incandescent Soulstoke
4 Mulldrifter
2 Ranger Of Eos
4 Reveillark
1 Shriekmaw
4 Smokebraider
2 Soul Warden

Legendary Creatures
4 Horde Of Notions


Tribal Instants
1 Nameless Inversion

Basic Lands
1 Forest
1 Island
2 Mountain

Lands
4 Ancient Ziggurat
4 Primal Beyond
4 Reflecting Pool
4 Vivid Crag
1 Vivid Grove
Sideboard:

3 Pithing Needle
1 Burrenton Forge-tender
1 Cloudthresher
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Shriekmaw
1 Tar Fiend
1 Wispmare
1 Eyes Of The Wisent
1 Shields Of Velis Vel

I know this is Type II, but perhaps it helps with some ideas.

The article is here, though you have to be a premium member: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/standard/17626_Positive_EV_Elementals_in_Sao_Paulo.html

[zabuza]

I thought about list you give me (i haven´t a premium account so i couldn´t see what was inside the article) but i´m not very sold about none of the new ideas the list provide me.

The only thing i was thinking before and now think again is that Flamekin Harbinger is so good that i must play x4 of them. This way give me slots to play with 1x so i´m going to test Slithermuse as 1x. This card provide me enough card advantage to win the game asily once i´ve lost my creatures-resources fulling my hand again.

Nova chaser is so good too so i must play 4x. the same for spawnwrithe, incandescent soulstoke.

Now i´m playing taurean mauler x2 because it is a house at the begining of the game but later became little.

Smokebarid is a 4x too and briarhorn and shriekmow are 4 x for now. I have to test making them 3 x.

Any more ideas, thoughts??

Lot of thanks for everybody

[zabuza]

H guys, new list:

ELEMENTALS v2.1
// Lands
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [MOR] Primal Beyond
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [PS] Darigaaz's Caldera
4 [WL] Gemstone Mine
4 [UNH] Mountain

// Creatures
4 [LRW] Shriekmaw
4 [LRW] Briarhorn
4 [SHM] Spawnwrithe
4 [LRW] Incandescent Soulstoke
4 [LRW] Smokebraider
2 [MOR] Taurean Mauler
4 [LRW] Nova Chaser
1 [LRW] Ingot Chewer
4 [LRW] Flamekin Harbinger
2 [MOR] Slithermuse
1 [LRW] Wispmare

// Spells
4 [SH] Mox Diamond

Slithermuse has been proved to be great. You can spend all your hand and then fill it again thanks to the opponent.

Chaser is a HOUSE. With harbinger you can loop chaser after chaser till opponent dies.

now with wispmare and chewer we can search for help when needed (moat, crucible, ....) the only i need now is a way to recover cards from grave.

ideas, thoughts?

[AncientSion]

Apart from your manabase, the entire deck is T2.

How can T2 creatures stand against legacy creatures and spells i ask. (Merfolk, anyone? ~Nihil)

[Dark_Cynic87]

I agree that the Harbinger into Chaser loop is awesome. I say you test the idea someone had with Recurring Nightmare. Then check into Intuition. Maybe LftL could do okay in here also. I think your mana base needs a looking into, as wastelock pwns you (Needle I guess?), blood moon cripples you (with some difficulty you can play around it), and B2B (Whispmare if you're lucky) doesn't do anything good for you either. That's why I suggested the LftL and Recurring Nightmares.

Pce,

--DC

[zabuza]

What creatures of legacy are you afraid of? Those who dies to shriekmaw or those who must be blocked because 10-11 damages are too much to be received in only one strike?

Seriusly, creatures are not the problem of the deck. I´ve tested it this weekend against survival, standstill anz zoo.

Standstill is not a good match-up because humility. I played two games against it and the finished when humility was played. Wispmare can´t destroy it and grips doesn´t arrive at time. I´m thinking of removing wispmare because they beat for only 1 and the only two enchantments can hurt me are moat and humility. This dude onlye is useful agaisnt one of them so i´m going to replace it with another thing.

Survival: The muth-up has improved a lot: 50-50 and they only win games when order for progenitus.

Zoo: The zoo has lot of removal (lightnings, paths,.......) so my dudes die very fast and lightnings, thoctar, bolts and fireblast kill me. He played thoctar after thoctar in the games we played. I killed 2 with shriekmaws in a game and he played the third after that.

I´m happy with the deck because i think it can improve a lot too and can be a serius contender.

For now i´m going to change several things. The list i´m going to play is the following:

ELEMENTALS v2.1
// Lands
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [MOR] Primal Beyond
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [PS] Darigaaz's Caldera
4 [WL] Gemstone Mine
4 [UNH] Mountain

// Creatures
4 [LRW] Shriekmaw
4 [LRW] Timbermare
4 [LRW] Incandescent Soulstoke
4 [LRW] Smokebraider
4 [LRW] Nova Chaser
1 [LRW] Ingot Chewer
4 [LRW] Flamekin Harbinger
3 [MOR] Slithermuse
3 [LRW] Supreme Exemplar
2 [ODY] oversold cemetery

// Spells
4 [SH] Mox Diamond


Now the changes:

I´ve realised that nova sometimes wasn´t enough because progenitus could block it all the day. Because of that i´ve decided to use the big brother : Supreme exemplar. Flies, 10 power (and progenitus can´t jump), can be played for 2 making 10damage and can loop with harbinger too. A great dude i think.

Slithermuse is good too. I played only once but it gaves me 5 new cards ;). I thing is good enough to recover fuel when needed.

Timbermare: I needed a guy who was big, cheap, and and could pass through any defenses the opponent could play(prog, walls,...). Timbermare is this guy. Is like a bolt of 5 damage for 4. You can tap all the dudes from the opponent and make your horse to stomp against him. If played (with soulstoke) in the opponent turn you can tap all their creatures, stealing him the attack phase while you can pass in the next turn over him in yours. Echo is not a problem because lot of times you can play it (tomb, citys and smokebraid are awesome mana producers) and if not can be payed don´t you be afraid, you have bolted from 5 ;)

The cards that are going to leave:

Briarhorn: Is not bad. I would like to pley it as a couple of but he never give me any game and can be bolted responding to his hability so.....

Spawnwrithe: noooooooooooooo, i love this guy, but he is too small and is very difficult to connect with him because 2/2 is not something relevant. In legacy decks can play efficient beaters for 1 mana /nacatl, apes, and so on ) and removal (path, swords, lightnings, fire/ice) are vey usual so this dude can´t connect usually. I had briarhorns and maws to make him connect, but even with that i could connec a single time in all matches i´ve played.

Wispmare: Slow and not very useful. I´m decided to play supreme exemplar so now moat is not a problem and humility is as bad as before. The mana he cost is not difficult to be obtained so.. WTF is a big monster ;)

Moon, magus and B2B could be a problem before, but not now. Tee core of the deck is red and we play mountains too (all of our dudes can be played with red mana via soulstoke). Another point is that Smokebraid are soo good. They are red, and provides mana of any color. We can play all the dudes of the deck with smokebraids because elementals only cost ONE colored mana each. Apart from that we play moxes (more multicolored mana) so i´m not afraid of any kind of moon, magus or so. All my lands are mountains? GREAT, i can´t untap non basic lands? Great i will play with my mountainds, moxes and smokebraids.


I tested nightmares but lot of times i don´t want to sacrify any of my dudes so i realised that nightmare is not for this deck. I´m now trying oversold cemetery. Is little slow but it words better for me now.

Thoughts, ideas, comments, replies?

Please help me because i really like this deck. Is very funny to play with it and nobody expects it.

[zabuza]

I was thinking on how can improve more the deck. I tested yesterday and proved that timbermare is not good enough for the deck. I´ve decided to replace them and other cards making the deck R-B with a little splash of U or G

The cards i´m now considering are:

Ashenmoor Gouger : A beater. It´s cheap and big. Can´t block but no problem with that.

Flamekin Bladewhirl: The lion/pup of elementals. It´s cheap and fast. Turn 1 enough to start beating.

Ball lightning/blistering Firecat: I don´t know if these ones could be playable in the deck but i think i must we must test it at least.


The list of the deck could be somethinh like:

ELEMENTALS v3.0
// Lands
4 City of Traitors
4 Primal Beyond
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Mountain

// Creatures
4 Flamekin Bladewhirl
4 Flamekin Harbinger
4 Smokebraider
4 Incandescent Soulstoke
4 Ashenmoor Gouger
3 Slithermuse
4 Nova Chaser
4 Shriekmaw
1 Ingot Chewer
3 Supreme Exemplar
1 Oversold cemetery

// Spells
4 Chrome Mox

I would like to play shimian spirit guide now so what can i remove for them?

What do you think about this new version? More ideas ? Lotof thanks.

[eq.firemind]

Ashenmoor Gouger/Ball Lightning is only good with Incandescent Soulstoke 'cause with :2:-lands you can't hardcast it early enough.
I think you can cut 2 Supreme Exemplar (again, not very good on by itself, but 1 needed in addition to Chasers for Harbinger madness) and 4 Gougers and add 4 Spirit Guide and 2 something. Maybe Chameleon Collosus (beater, not bad with Stompy lands, descent by himself)?

How is Oversold Cemetary? I see you cut it to 1 and I still believe it's shitty card 'cause it needs too much to even start working.

[Skeggi]

Apart from your manabase, the entire deck is T2.

How can T2 creatures stand against legacy creatures and spells i ask. (Merfolk, anyone? ~Nihil)

First off, because of your manabase you can play these creatures faster and therefor are more viable. Also, because of power creep, newer creatures tend to be better. Almost every creature played in Legacy is also legal in Extended.

Second, Merfolk is mainly viable because of Lord of Atlantis, and that's not a T2 creature. It was reprinted in Time Spiral. ~NC You are aware Time Spiral has rotated out of T2? :wink:

... this is weird... it feels like I have multiple personalities o.O

[zabuza]

Could the manabase be something like next?
4 Primal Beyond
4 gemstone mine
4 bloodstained mire
6 Mountain
4 Chrome Mox
4 SSG

With this manabase we can´t play incandescent soulstoke in first turn ( o yeah, chorme, simian and land is possible but...) but is more stable and with this red manabase we can play gorgers, ball lightning, blistering and so on and we are resilient to wastelands,.... . Colored mana will be provided by primal, gemstone and smokebraid.

About supreme exemplar i´ve decided that two of them is the perfect number so now i´ve reduced from 3 to 2.

Oversold cemetery is awesome at middle-late game. The worst thing about it is that in multiples can be bad (but if you have lot of creatures on the grave it´s upgraded), but with al evoke dudes, all dudes that die with soulstoke is easy to have 4 creatures on the grave (counters help to this too ;) ) and now if we play balls or cats the card becomes better too. I´m excited of playing every turn a nova or ball lighning ;). I´m thinking of increasing it to two because we only want it at middle late game. The point of oversold is that it only cost 2 mana, you don´t have to pay nothing for recovering a creature (card advantage i think? ) and all your turns you will be able to play a dude for sure while it stands on the table.


What do you think about it?

[eq.firemind]

With this manabase we can´t play Incandescent Soulstoke in first turn
And we can't play Chalice/Trini in SB to have some chances against Combo. And we loose explosiveness... I don't think shitty beaters will compensate this.
And as I said you have Chameleon Colossus that supports Stompy manabase and all good cards in your deck ('cause it's Changeling, i.e. Elemental).


About Supreme Exemplar i´ve decided that two of them is the perfect number so now i´ve reduced from 3 to 2.
It's up to you, but I don't agree here... Exemplar beats great, but you need other cards to make him work and tutors to find it when you need. Colossus is good by itself, have protection against some removal spells and, as I said, has synergy with your deck.


Oversold cemetery is awesome at middle-late game. The point of oversold is that it only cost 2 mana, you don´t have to pay nothing for recovering a creature (card advantage i think? ) and all your turns you will be able to play a dude for sure while it stands on the table.
My money are still on Recurring Nightmare. I believe it's easier to make it work and with many Evokers you'll recieve some manacheating. By the way, recurring Shriekmaw or Ingot Chewer IS card advantage + nice beater and you can loop what you need every turn after you reach 6 mana (not so hard with Stompy manabase).

[Otter]

Even if you won't use Recurring Nightmare, I'd at least try Oath of Ghouls instead of Oversold, it comes online much faster and there aren't many opposing decks that can abuse it (Dredge? Zoo? That seems like about the only ones that might have more dudes in the graveyard than you.).

[zabuza]

You have had a nice idea. I wasn´t thought on oath of ghouls. It cost 1B too and is faster than oversold. I´ll try it.

Now i don´t know what´s the direction to go with the deck.

Removing green gives the deck more stability, but I loose lot of cards i like Spawnwrithe and Briarhorn. Writhe never hits the opponent (because everybody has removal and when they see it burn it or path it). Briarhorn could be still useful but i don´t know if it was worthwhile.

i´ve been thinking on all the elementals i´ve thought in and i don´t know which ones are the best to be played on the deck

I don´t know even if a stompy manabase is the best option for the deck because lot of times lands are not useful and i need beaters or utilitys to play.

I´m going to explain the uses for all the cards i´ve tested and ask you for any advice or suggestion on how to improve the deck.

Flamekin Bladewhirl: The Lion of the deck. Nowdais is not great because apes nacatl and so are bigger than him. Is a one mana drop
Flamekin Harbinger: The combo-tutor. Is good because combo with novas and exemplars.
Smokebraider: Te mana producer. This guy is awesome. It speeds the deck a lot while produces any color.
Incandescent Soulstoke: The plan B. A guy who throws all her friends to the table and is a lord too. Imprescindible.
Ashenmoor Gouger: a beater. A 4/4 for 3 is good but need lot of colored mana. It´s not playable with stompy manabase
Slithermuse: The drawer. YOu can draw lot of cards with this dude. Throw it with soulstoke to beat for 4 while you draw from 2 to 5 cards. Is good but needs more testing. Evoke it is easy but play it fo 2UU is not.
Nova Chaser: The beater. The big brother. The combo. AN awesome dude
Shriekmaw: Removal. This guy is needed.
Ingot Chewer: Sometimes good, sometimes bad. 1 MD and 3 SDB would be the best option.
Supreme Exemplar: The Big Big Brother. Only 2x or 1x because its cost.
Briarhorn: is good because help your dudes to survive lightnings but i´m not sure about it.
Timbermare: Good if played on the opponent´s turn or to deal the 5 last damage but when tested was not a good option.
Spawnwrithe: The Ugly. I like this dude a lot, but it is small, very small and never hits the oppoenent because it has a lightning catcher on its head.
Mulldrifter: to draw more. His evoke cost is playable but a 2/2 flier is not definitory
Wispmare: Sideboard is its place
Taurean Mauler: If you pley it at the beggining of the game is ery good. Another scenario he is bad so it requires stompy manabase.
Sulfur Elemental: IS not bad but is not good too. It kills soldiers from decree of justice and things like that and uncountereable but i´m not very sold about it.
Silverglade elemental: It provides a forest (taiga) for free while is a 4/4 body. Played with soulstoke sounds good but...
Changeling Berserker: Another champion creature. it hasn´t trample and dies witha single bolt.
Changeling Hero: lifelink, changeling, champion and 4/4 body. Its cost is high, So only playabel with stompy manabase.
Inner-flame Acolyte: A pumper haster dude for R. it´s body is not great 2/2 but not tested yet.
Mirror Entity: Only playable with lot of little and fast dudes. I don´t know if he is needed.
Soulbright Flamekin: A more mana dude who gives trample to all our dudes. Works well with stompy manabase, lot of critters and mirror entity.

What do you think would be the best way to continue developing the deck?
Thanks

[zabuza]

Hi everbody, The deck has changed a lot so here is the new version.

Elementals grave 1.0


4 Primal beyond
9 mountain
4 Bloodstained mire
1 Swamp
-------18 lands---

4 Chrome Mox
---4 Accelerators---

4 oversold cemetery
---4 Recursion/card advantage---

4 Flamekin Harbinger
4 Flamekin Bladewhirl
4 Smokebraider
4 Incandescent Soulstoke
4 Ball lightning
4 Blistering Firecat
4 Nova chaser
4 Shriekmaw
1 Spitebellows
1 ingot chewer
1 wispmare

I´ve tested it and is aggressive enough to win lot of match-ups. Has resources than can be replayed and i think is solid enough.

Ideas, thoughts?

[Skeggi]

Why not go -4 Mountain, +4 Badlands?

[zabuza]

It was an option but everybody uses wastelands so sometimes you must wait a turn to play ball or cat and this situation i think is bad for us. If you want to you can use badlands but you only need black from lands for cemetery and this cards is played usually later so you can fetc for swamp if needed. Perhaps you can use 1-2 badlands instead of 2 mountains but this is your decission.

More thoughts and suggestions?

[enemyofarsenic]

Fiery Hellhound from m10 - boltable though hehe...

[zabuza]

Sorry, but I think is not good enough to be played. In that cost we play ball lightning and soulstoke and they are much better than dog. Anyways thanks for the idea.

Please More suggestions.

[enemyofarsenic]

How about Hell's Thunder?

[zabuza]

is not bad at all but I tested it and since they were surprisingly good I´ve to remove it from the deck. This is because there is no room for them in the deckand because you need an smokebraid in second turn always. Beside of that usually when i play them the opponent has any big dude to block or they are irrelevant.

THanks for helping. More suggestions?

[zabuza]

New version of the deck. More stable and good enough to be played with:


4 Primal beyond
8 mountain
4 Bloodstained mire
3 wasteland
-------19 lands---

4 Chrome Mox
4 rite of flame
---8 Accelerators---

4 Flamekin Harbinger
4 Smokebraider
3 stigma lasher
2 ashling the pilgrim
4 Incandescent Soulstoke
2 Ball lightning
4 Nova chaser
4 Shriekmaw
3 Reveillark
1 mulldrifter
1 Spitebellows
1 ingot chewer
1 fulminator mage
---34 creatures---


ideas, thoughts?

[Pastorofmuppets]

Might I suggest Sunflare Shaman? I've tested decks like this before and he'll usually clip your opponent for 5-6 damage late game.
Also, I happen to own a foil Nova Chaser. It looks sweet.

[zabuza]

I´ve thinked on it before. It´s only good in lategame because although you can think the grave is going to be full of elementals is not that right usually.

Perhaps you can play a couple of them. I´m going to test them but don´t know if they are good enough. For the same purpose you have ashling that deals damage to all creatures and players. 6 mana in this deck is not hard to obtain at all and usually is a finisher for herself. Even then i´m not liking her (but there isn´t anything better now so...) And Yes, Nova chaser is a HOUSE.

[zabuza]

I´ve played a 4 round´s tournament with my elemental dear watson and finished 3-1 for me. I won to MUC, ThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh and standstill (i was very lucky here because he couldn´t find humility before i kill him). The only round i´ve lost was against a GB deck with lot of removal (smother, pernicius, pulses and so on).

The deck is impresive and no one expect it. Some players thought that were playing against belcher because rites, moxes and petals ;). Sideboarding with wispmares (OMG, they are nuts (aginst chill, Propaganda , and so on)) and ingot chewer were good too.

The only real problem i´m afraid of and i don´t know how to solve without splashing any color and that can be played consistently in the deck is how can I get rid of a Humilty the opponent plays. I can´t use wispmares against it and red doesn´t provide any response to enchantments or humility but anarchy. I´m thinking a lot by i can´t find a good answer to damn humilty.

In the actual version of the deck i´m playing rage forger because it pumps lot of my dudes and provides direct damage against the opponent. I´m playing over 20 shamans so they are good enough to be played here. THe can help against humility too but i need something more.


Any ideas, help?

[f|i[p]]

Played this deck on mws, it was quite fun to see a different tribal deck for once... One thing I didn't really like was chrome mox.. although it did provide speed.. it was card disadvantage in some points.. mid to later game.. I really couldn't do anything with it... I usually didn't want to pitch cards to it because I didn't really have much draw effects..Ive noticed that you exhaust your hand quite fast even without chrome mox...

I cut 1 reveillark for another mull drifter.. I replaced chrome with ssg.

[zabuza]

I don´t like chrome mox too because you usally lose one more dude, but the problem is that the deck only has 14 lands so we need more mana consistency. I tested SSG but they are not good in this deck because temporal mana is only good at the begining (to cast smokebraid), and if somokebraid dies you are sold.

The problem of filling your hand again is solved with slithermuse. This card is AWESOME. In the past tourney, in one round i played 4 slithermuses (with soulstoke, chianing one after another while playing all cards to repat the process) and drew more than 18 cards for them. The deck can refill the hand very easily and with muses, and reveillark you can always make the party go on.

I´m thinking on how to solve the humility´s problem. Because smokebraid and Primal beyond we must use the less non-elemental cards we can so it´s difficult to think on anything to solve that issue. I´ve thought on anarchy but is lot of expensive and non elemental, so no playable.

Another option was jitte, is only 2 mana to play and 2 to activate, but is very easy to destroy and doesn´t remove the enchantment so i don´t like it too.

Stingmoggie is anothe option because it comes into play with 2 +1/+1 counters so humility doesn´t affect it, but he is smaller than a mishra so is not valid too.

any more ideas?