[Practical Legacy] Tuning, Playing, and Listening to Permanent Waves

[GreenOne]

Here you are (http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/17760_Practical_Legacy_Tuning_Playing_and_Listening_to_Permanent_Waves.html), again with the High Tide.

Wave's coming.

Why the hell he's playing with Serum Visions instead of Sleight of Hand?

[Skeggi]

Wouldn't Obsessive Search be good in combination with Mind over Matter?

[Maveric78f]

How is it better than Spring Tide? And solidarity?
How can he play cunning wish and not show us his SB?
How often does MoM actually generates mana?

[AnwarA101]

Here you are (http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/17760_Practical_Legacy_Tuning_Playing_and_Listening_to_Permanent_Waves.html), again with the High Tide.

Wave's coming.

Why the hell he's playing with Serum Visions instead of Sleight of Hand?

As I explained in the article, I was playing Serum Visions to help me keep 1 land hands and to setup my future draws. Sleight of Hand while giving you choice of which card to take does not setup future draws and is less likely to help you hit land with a 1 land hand.

Do you think Sleight of Hand would be good in the final three slots?


Wouldn't Obsessive Search be good in combination with Mind over Matter?

That's probably true, but Obsessive Search is such a poor draw spell the rest of the time.


How is it better than Spring Tide? And solidarity?
How can he play cunning wish and not show us his SB?
How often does MoM actually generates mana?

I have a previous article on Permanent Waves that you might be interested in. Here it is :


Unlocking Legacy - Solidarity and Spring Tide: The Best of Both Decks (http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/16837_Unlocking_Legacy_Solidarity_and_Spring_Tide_The_Best_of_Both_Decks.html)

My sideboard is also listed in that article. I did not include my sideboard (though I did mention which cards are typically wished for) because my sideboard is in state of flux. I am trying many different cards for the sideboard, but I didn't want to lose focus on tuning the maindeck which I believe is very important and the point that I was trying to make.

Thank you all for the feedback.

[Ironstickman]

Hi, enjoyed reading.
Just an idea:
+4 Cloud of faeries
+4 Snap
in the Sideboard, to avoid all artifact hate post board (dead needles/grips etc) and particullary because all creature removal is gone and snap+cloud is now a lot safer.

That is a lot of space used up but it might be worth it. You're relying a lot more in cunning wish to get rid of CB though.
I'd go for remands in those 3 slots, buys you time and combines with freeze (which i'd probably switch with stroke if added)

[sunshine]

@Anwar: Have you tested Sensei's Top? It does some pretty nutty things with MoM (Cycling your entire hand for one mana) especially if you've resolved a Hight Tide. It would give you a turn one play as well as help with finding mana and/or draw as you need it. You've got eight fetches already to optimize Top's filtering. Possibly something to consider for the final slots.

Edit: Some Solidarity lists used to run Thawing Glaciers, it's clunky and I wouldn't cut a land for it but if you have an extra slot it might be worth testing - especially if you ever up the number of untap effects.

[beastman]

You didn't name it foppish legacy...
On a real note, very nice article. I'm not sure whether they've ever had a first article about a deck as different as permanent waves.

[AnwarA101]

Hi, enjoyed reading.
Just an idea:
+4 Cloud of faeries
+4 Snap
in the Sideboard, to avoid all artifact hate post board (dead needles/grips etc) and particullary because all creature removal is gone and snap+cloud is now a lot safer.

That is a lot of space used up but it might be worth it. You're relying a lot more in cunning wish to get rid of CB though.
I'd go for remands in those 3 slots, buys you time and combines with freeze (which i'd probably switch with stroke if added)

After moving to Candelabra/MOM, I have not really considered Cloud/Snap because I find that not untapping all your lands is usually worse than trying to deal with artiface/enchantment hate.


@Anwar: Have you tested Sensei's Top? It does some pretty nutty things with MoM (Cycling your entire hand for one mana) especially if you've resolved a Hight Tide. It would give you a turn one play as well as help with finding mana and/or draw as you need it. You've got eight fetches already to optimize Top's filtering. Possibly something to consider for the final slots.


Yes, I tested Tops awhile back and they were just too mana intensive. They require investing mana over and over again and unlike Impulse or Serum Visions they don't clear the top of my library. Top is a good card, but it does not seem to work all that well here despite its great interaction with MoM, but perhaps it is worth another look.


You didn't name it foppish legacy...
On a real note, very nice article. I'm not sure whether they've ever had a first article about a deck as different as permanent waves.

Thank you.

[GreenOne]

Do you think Sleight of Hand would be good in the final three slots?
Don't know if it would be good. But I'm sure that it's a LOT better than Serum Visions during combo.
Compare your list with solidarity lists. Both are playing 18 lands, but while solidarity have Brainstorm + Opt to find the second land, you have Brainstorm + Ponder + Sleight of Hand. I'm sure it's enough.

However, the probability of finding a land or another cantrip in the top 2 is more than 70% if I counted well, and then you have your next draw with roughly the 50% chance of finding a land or cantrip. I guess Sleight of hand is efficient enough to be run.

[AnwarA101]

Don't know if it would be good. But I'm sure that it's a LOT better than Serum Visions during combo.
Compare your list with solidarity lists. Both are playing 18 lands, but while solidarity have Brainstorm + Opt to find the second land, you have Brainstorm + Ponder + Sleight of Hand. I'm sure it's enough.

However, the probability of finding a land or another cantrip in the top 2 is more than 70% if I counted well, and then you have your next draw with roughly the 50% chance of finding a land or cantrip. I guess Sleight of hand is efficient enough to be run.

I have not verified your math, but my sense is that Sleight of Hand might be slightly better than Serum Visions, but Impulse when you can afford the mana is usually better. I guess I wish Impulse was a bit better...

[Valtrix]

Hey! Since you have a new colum on practical legacy, I think you should write an article about sideboarding :D You could probably even break it into two articles, one about how to build sideboards, and another about how to actual board while in-game.

[TheRock]

The problem with Spring Tide and Permanent Waves is that they need two lands to win and they already mulligan a considerable bit of the time leaving you with many times where you need to get the second land.

For Permanent Waves, which is a deck that doesn't win on turn three as much, Sleight of Hand's ability to be more useful during the combo diminishes compared to a card that can help you find lands, or anything for that matter, at a much better rate before going off. Granted, your chance of finding another cantrip is high, but using Brainstorm and turn two Ponders with one land just to find lands is a sure recipe for disaster in a deck that wants to be finding High Tides, untap effects, and Forces at that point instead.

Serum Visions is still a good card (albeit somewhat win-more) during the combo, especially for a deck that runs 3 Wish, 7 draw spells, and powerful untap effects. Regardless, Impulse is the better card if you don't have problems getting lands.

Story short: Serum wins you more games than Sleight does because it's best use is before the combo and its far better at setting up the combo and getting you lands.

[ScatmanX]

but using Brainstorm and turn two Ponders with one land just to find lands is a sure recipe for disaster in a deck that wants to be finding High Tides, untap effects, and Forces at that point instead.
...
Story short: Serum wins you more games than Sleight does because it's best use is before the combo and its far better at setting up the combo and getting you lands.


Actually, if you have just 1 land, is better to Ponder, and then 2nd turn Brainstorm. That way you are able to see up to 8 cards in 2 turns.

And I agree with Serum Visions being better, and with the argument for it.