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Dan Turner
07-17-2009, 11:28 PM
Ok so i am playing a game this afternoon and came across a question- i sometimes use a dry erase marker to mark sleeves on cards during gameplay IE Loyalty counters.

I circled the text on a Pact of Negation (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=130701) so that I would remember to pay on my upkeep.

I got called on using outside notes and marked cards by my opponent. Now the Judge ruled in my favor stating that it is not outside notes and as long as it does not allow the card to be differentiated from the backside it is not marked.

Was this the correct ruling? My opponent swears up and down that it was incorrect and he is reporting the judge for an incorrect ruling but from what I read of the floor rules it is completely correct. BTW this match determined which one of us went on to the top 8.



Players are responsible for ensuring that their cards and/or card sleeves are not marked during the course of the tournament. A card or sleeve is considered marked if it bears something that makes it possible to identify the card without seeing its face, including scratches, discoloration, and bends.
If a player’s cards are sleeved, the cards must be examined while in the sleeves to determine if they are marked. Players should use care when sleeving their decks and should randomize their decks prior to sleeving them to reduce the possibility of cards becoming marked with a pattern. Players should also keep in mind that cards or sleeves may become worn and potentially marked through play during the course of a tournament.
The Head Judge has the authority to determine if a card in a player’s deck is marked. Judges may request that a player remove his or her current sleeves or replace any of the deck’s current sleeves immediately, or before the next round.



Players are allowed to take written notes during a match and may refer to those notes while that match is in progress. At the beginning of a match, each player’s note sheet must be empty and must remain visible throughout the match. Players do not have to explain or reveal notes to other players. Judges may ask to see a player’s notes and/or request that the player explain his or her notes. Players may not refer to outside notes during games. This includes notes from previous matches.
Between games, players may refer to a brief set of notes made before the match. They are not required to reveal these notes to their opponents. These notes must be removed from the play area before the beginning of the next game. Excessive quantities of notes – more than a sheet or two - are not allowed and may be penalized as slow play.
Players and spectators (exception: authorized press) may not make notes while drafting or registering a card pool. However, they are allowed to do so when constructing a deck.
Artistic modifications to cards that indirectly provide minor strategic information are acceptable. The Head Judge is the final arbiter on what cards and notes are acceptable for a tournament.

Nihil Credo
07-18-2009, 06:30 AM
The text seems pretty explicit to me:

A card or sleeve is considered marked if it bears something that makes it possible to identify the card without seeing its face


Artistic modifications to cards that indirectly provide minor strategic information are acceptable. The Head Judge is the final arbiter on what cards and notes are acceptable for a tournament.

cdr
07-18-2009, 11:19 AM
Nihil is right about the first one, less right about the second.

You can write anything you want on your cards so long as A) the writing is done in-game and it's gone before the next game, and B) it doesn't cause the card to become marked or any other cards to become marked.

B is what I'd worry about with dry-erase - it tends to be messy in my experience.

Circling a Pact's text with a sharpie before you play would be Outside Notes.

Ectoplasm
07-18-2009, 01:42 PM
What's wrong with putting a die/a counter on your library to remember paying upkeeps? :)

Giles
07-18-2009, 04:29 PM
A) the writing is done in-game and it's gone before the next game

I thought I read that they changed the rules on "outside notes" with the last rules update.

cdr
07-18-2009, 04:40 PM
They did, slightly. Sideboarding notes are now allowed between games - that's it.

Magic Fanatic quoted the rule on Notes in full above. Here's the Penalty Guide section:



4.2. Tournament Error — Outside Assistance

Definition

A player, spectator, or other tournament participant does any of the following:

• Seeks advice from others once he or she has sat for his or her match.
• Gives advice to players who have sat for their match.
• During a game, references notes made before the official beginning of the current match, including text that has not been provided by a judge.

These criteria also apply to any deck construction portions of a limited tournament. Additionally, no notes of any kind may be made during a draft.

Notes made during a match may be referenced during that match or between matches. Notes made outside the current match may only be referenced between games.

Giles
07-18-2009, 04:47 PM
What's wrong with putting a die/a counter on your library to remember paying upkeeps? :)

Just put something on top of your library (Like your pen or a coin). So you can remember to pay for the pact.